How to Port a Rotary Engine For More Power
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 6 окт 2024
- Looking to add more power to a rotary engine? Well one way to do it is to port the irons for more flow and we show you just how it's done through a Mazda 13B bridge port.
Our Patreon page: / speedacademy
Our Shopify page: speed-academy.m...
Follow us for up to the minute project updates:
Website: speed.academy
Facebook: / gofastwithclass
Instagram: / speedacademy
Twitter: / spdacademy
![Chicken P - People's Favorite (Remix) [Feat. 42 Dugg] (Official Video)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/a6Bn8FEtxmY/mqdefault.jpg)
First, thank you for making this video. If you could get your hands on a CNC machine that had a learn function, you could use your template, Dykem, and scribe to lay out the area for removal, then put a cutting tool in the machine and move the cutter along the path you need to cut, stopping at points along the way to set your waypoints for the machine to learn. The more points the better. Then let the machine string these waypoints together into a tool path. Save and re-use as necessary. Here's the good part: you don't need to spend a million dollars on this either. Just put a nice CNC setup on your Bridgeport or clone mill. You could make a fixture for every different type of rotary and do 20 a day. Then spend more time with your family. Thanks again!
I own and operate a VMC and while not an expert on all things CNC that just isn't something that I have seen any control do. Now I have seen controls that support a probing tool that could be used after the fact but that is hardly a cost effective way of generating a cad file just to write a cam program. Why waste all that money when you can just take measurements and draw it in a cad program. I mean if you have a template then you have something to measure.
I'm doing a street port on mine. I daily mine and I don't street race. I enjoy cruising and winding back roads. Basically a 2nd and 3rd gear build.
Beginners, tape around the scribe lines in case your grinder skips
Man after porting (poorly) 4 valve 6 cylinder engines, this looks like what i should have started practicing on. I spend more time on ONE intake port on a 4 valve/cyl head than he has in the entire engine!
Testament to easy power on the rotary
That was cool! I've always wondered exactly what street and bridge porting was on rotaries. All I knew until now is one made more power and one made a lot more power! lol
Very educational guys. Thanks!
By the way, tell Pete this is what is considered an acceptable way of grinding metal! *wink wink
And what you "know" is complete BULLSHIT!
Way to bring back a dead comment... lol
Dear God it's like I'm at the dentist
hahahhahaha
That's a perfect example of how not to drill metal.
Shiftyrx7!! more Rex videos bro!
swear I'm moving to either Canada or Australia. no Rex people in BFE Kansas! had to go to two different machine shops today just to have my comp tube drilled and tapped and a cam lobe made for the tps. first guy wouldn't even work with me once I said rx7. :(
Looks like I'll just port my engine in my garage thanks.
My kingdom for a clapped out bridgeport vertical milling machine.
if you're going to do a full NA bridge port and refinish a turbo iron. You might as well clearance the rotors, bearings, change the E-shaft oil jets. Basically go full mambo, or then just peripheral port it.
For Low speed, Low load, Mazda pointed a later closing of intake port improves results. The two tiny ports for idle in Suzuki RE-5 were placed as to keep open after main round port was closed. An square, smaller port is better than a round port at usual rev and load regimes in an Street car.
Comments?
Blessings +
I have a couple of questions but firstly thank you guys so much for making these video's which although not too detailed you give enough accurate information steering me in the correct direction to research further.
Now is this the same as an "extended" bridgeport or that is another genuine port? Secondly why not port it totally or does that then become a huge "Peripheral port"? Thanks in advance.
BTW- My first car was a 13b extended mild-port RX4 and I miss that car soooooo much. Keep up the good work young men I like seeing you young guys being so passionate about the rotary engine… ;)
Peripheral ports I think are drilled at the literal side of the rotor housing. And it's really large.
Cool video. Joe built the full bridge I have in my track car.
I love that bluepoint pencil. I use mine all the time!
A human CNC machine!
This is like tuning my 2stroke moped. I love rotarys anyway its interesting how you build a vtec in a rotary :D
น้ำตาไหลเลยครับฟังไม่รู้เรื่อง
At 8:00 you can see he ported into the water jacket..
"Trump voice" Wrong! Lol, nah thats the black dot from the marker when i used it as a pointer but didnt have cover on it
Great video ! Semi peripheral port video please !
He nicked the water jacket, hope he fixed it..
8:04 ?
8ad8oy15 yea I would not want my ports done by him. This was a very simplistic shop and process. Lots of room for error
The black dot is from when i used a sharpie as a pointer but didnt cover it
+NoOneImportant556 if its the small black dot you are basing this on then you are incorrect. Thats a black dot left from a sharpie when i used it as a pointer but forgot to cover it
shiftyrx7 No not at all. I didn't even notice what ever you are referencing. I saw no issues but Im saying that's going to happen because of how he drilled. I've been drilling and milling metals for years. Im speaking from experience on what effects of drilling does when you do certain things. Ie cut with no lubricant and a dry bit.
Even more so on a port component for a engine. Hopefully the micromitered those ports or his engine is going to have a hell of a time consistent constant pressures and flow per port/rotor.
Great Vid guys . Joey nice carbide hahah cant let it go 😁
What happens if you just leave the dots? Would it work??? Probably would sound cool
I really enjoy your videos. I've never used a rotary engine. Way back when rotary engines were new they gained a negative reputation for fuel consumption, burning oil and lasting very long. From your videos, I see that these things can be attributed to the badly designed apex seals.
I plan to use a 3 rotor turbocharged engine made especially with aviation in mind. Constant speeds and way better-designed apex seals. I have a question. Mazda designed the older engines to burn 4 stroke oil from the crankcase. But now people speak of using a mix of 2 stoke oil in remove the oil metering device and using the ashless 2 stroke oil. 4 stroke oil, for some reason especially in aviation engines, 4 stroke oil leaves significant metallic deposits. I think something to do with the synthetic attribute of the engine. Using a pure non-synthetic oil like Briggs & Stratton 2 cycle oil is inexpensive and burns without leaving ash.
So is mixing with a good ashless, non-synthetic oil the better way for the longer-lasting rotary engines. I asked one of your website people and he just told me when he uses and says I should use it too. This phenomenon of burning leaving a lot of metallic ash was noted using aviation engines. Would you please tell me what you would use so your engine should get better lubrication of the apex seals and fuel burns clean, leaving little to no deposits?
I had a stroke 18 years ago and used to be comfortable doing my own mechanics including regular maintenance and engine rebuilds. Now I have to build trust with mechanics before I have them do work on my car. I'll need an entire engine since I have none. How much gph should I expect cruising with my newly rebuilt rotary engine? About how much hp should I get out of 3 rotors and double turbocharged engine? Thanks !!!
Just use idemitsu rotary premix, best stuff
If by the bridge port, air and fuel are coming in early and pushing the exhaust gas as you said, would that be wasting fuel on each rotation just to give the exhaust gases a bit of an extra push?
Why not make the bridge port longer or larger?Or make it part of the main port?
Also
Who was doing the porting?
Just made my day. 👍
Scary, I'd do this on a cnc just to be safe and consistent. Interesting though!
Hand porting is how this has been done for years, im sure if someone is genius enough to write a cut program for the cnc it would be something to see for sure.
Yeah it has been this way for decades and I just surprised that no one has written a cut for it yet. Surly someone has.
doesn't really take a genius to program it. They just need to create the part in something like solidworks, add the ports into the design portion. Then run that file through solidcam or master cam, and it'll pretty much generate all your tool paths with the fastest route and even what size and brand tools your going to need. It'll even tell you if you need more than one operation and what kind of fixturing you could use.
@@WickedMachineWorks There are shops that do CNC porting. I would not let anyone "hand port" anything I own.
Not everyone has a 5 axis CNC machine in their shop, all set up and programmed for cutting Mazda rotary engine ports.
love the channel keep it up!!!!
Z32www.google.com.cy/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.auto123.com/en/car-reviews/2002-mazda-rx7-spirit-r/61624/&ved=2ahUKEwjN5eub26jbAhWjsaQKHRlBCWMQFjAVegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw2DMxFbaXR2xGVpoYwmIVuy.justin
are you guys going to put a lumpy cam to make it sound like other rotaries.
they sound real good at idle
he took the bait like a champ...
Hi - would you mind telling me who does your nitriding and lapping? thanks.
HOW MUCH EXTRA ENGINE OIL WILL BE LOST WHEN SIDE SEALS SWEEPING IT INTO THE BRIDGE PORT
So how would you be able to measure the flow rates for the port on a rotary? I know that on a piston engine you can just hook the head up to a flow bench. Is it the same process or do you have a different method?
1:20 is it not possible to be having the opposite of that happening? I mean if your exhaust preasure exceeds you intake preasure.
Or do you think the overlap is so slight during the "transition" so the exhaust gases does not have time to escape the wrong way and the bridge port just acts as a bigger port than previously?
Is Ken really a nurse? Doesn't he know better? Put some freaking safety glasses on man! We need you around for more videos!
Planning to buy a rx-8 realy soon, is street porting a good idea or any other kind of port. And are there any things i have to keep in mind cause its a renesis?
I'm guessing this can be done with my 2nd gen renesis?
A 6 port is the rotory vtec bridge is like a cam
does the iron shape stay perfectly even after the nitrate hardening process? or does if have to be polished or has anything else to be done to the surface afterwards?
No, nitriding does not usually alter the dimensions.
Post nitriding polishing may be desired/required.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitriding.
There are several similar processes such as Tuftriding that introduces higher heat that can result in distortion or warpage.
Parkerizing is similar to nitriding, offers corrosion resistance and lubricity, but may not last as long.
Cryogenic treatment is an alternative that offers superior hardening, stress relief, wear resistance, is long lasting and usually no distortion, but is more expensive.
@speedacademy what would happen if you stopped at the swiss cheese stage cleaned it up and then ran it ?
How does overlap works on an NA engine if the air fuel mixture isnt boosted out the exausht port, wouldn't the exhausts want to go up the intake port since its pressure is higher ?
what about the center iron. do you port that or leave it alone
Does joe know where to buy new housings? I'm looking for 1989 Turbo II S5 housings.
Great vids
Exhaust port pressure is higher than intake port pressure.
yea. whats up with that hole/black dot inside of port at 8:04? :D did he actually go through wall?
No he did not, thats black marker from when i attempted to use it as a pointer then realized it didnt have a cover on
any idea for more than 2 rotors? nice video btw
2 rotor = 13B. 3 rotor = 20B. 4 rotor = 26B
Don Rossco Joe The Renesis is also a two rotor
you guys should build my 13b lol
thanks for the video! I wonder if your rotary guy says ummm and uhhh in normal conversation? probably a nervousness thing from being on camera.
Thats Joe's schtick, he is actually a very well articulated guy :)
Seriously... cover up the surrounding area then mistakes won't happen... Surprised you don't just have a jig and mill to do it if you do that many. Not to mention lapping it after you work on it.
how much does drilling this cost? I hear porting cost a large sum of money
Who does Re nitrating of the plates?
Usually a commercial heat treat company or some commercial plating companies.
deeznutz1661 Nitride*. It's called QPQ or salt bath nitride. Common treatment for rifle barrels.
What is Ken's obsession with rotaries?
Nathaniel Mathies Doritos are addictive.
I had a piston engine once it was awful.
Nathaniel Mathies if you have to ask...
So what's the big difference between a bridge port and a peripheral port?
The ports in these plates are deleted and a fuck off port is machined into the rotor housing 🤜🤛
I would like to hear the noise after be done .
This takes some cajones to want to modify your motor like this. More power to him though!
Cojones
I want to get an engine
Where do I get the information?
as someone who knows very little about rotaries, why don't the bridge and main port combine?
You need that bridge for the corner seals to slide over, with one big port they will just fall out
Does this work for Mazda Renensis 13b as well?
Storm Young there is another bridgeport vid I believe it was on a 13b was made for a rx2 dragracer tough
coolguy10060 alright thanks. Id like to do this to my rx8 engine when it's rebuilt but I'm not sure if it works the same
Storm Young no probs channels name was fullboost just search for bridgeport
Storm Young it's works for all rotaries
Why didn't you cut the bridge port on a Bridgeport?
I wonder why nobody has thought to just cast these housings with the Bridgeport already in it?
Why don't you lay down the template down when you are doing the porting as a safety barrier?
Where did this modification come from? Has it been proven be worth the time and money?
Yes and yes, a quick google search will answer your questions.
Wat about if u made d 2 ports into 1 port
da hell happened to that finger?! jeeeez 9:32
Is this for 10 hp
What happans when only one plate is ported
How can i install a turbo on Rx8 13B engine ???
is it just me or at 8:15 does it look like there is a hole at the bottom of the port... like it has taken to much out and opened the water jacket behind..
Can you do this in a RX8?
bridgeport, like changing your LSA , rotory style.
ROTARY.
Where to buy the template s
Bridge-port is valve over-lap with adjustable cam-gears. sort-of lol
A Bridgeport mill with an antique CNC or g-code digital display would finish that in 1 min.
BRAP life!
BRRAAAPPP!!!
It's nice
Go the bridgey brap brap
Already late for work, but what's another 11 minute, eh?
Is it bad to Bridgeport a na 13b?
Cameron Poces depends what you want to achieve mate, you can take them upto 260-280hp with a good bridgeport and intake/exhaust and tune however idle quality, low down torque and fuel economy will suffer as will engine life if not done correctly
I start to think it is a bad idea to bridge port, more engine oil use threw port
This would be the perfect job for a Wire EDM machine.
Where can I get these templates?
I believe these are Pineapple Racing templates but we'll check with Ken and Joe to be sure.
Quanto cuasta um moto dese
2:30 "we will start with the Bridgeport ..." ... and he NEVER used a Bridgeport?? Was really interested to see how he was going to use a Mill, because typically one must painfully drill some holes and use hand held porting grinders ... which is risky, slow, and only moderately accurate ... (yes, that is what he did, LOL)
Fucking youtube didnt let me see this video.... its not in my sub list :|
Tivoliterror how did they not let you? If you could still watch it by searching for it or finding it on their channel then they did in fact let you see it.
Its a new youtube update where even in your sub tab they wont show all the shows, only the most popular(likes and views) :(
probably, probably, probably. Seems like a lot of guess work!
So sad that such an amateur type error with the grinding tool.i would have at least taped the surface with aluminum duck tape to protect surface
How TF is a birdgeport vtec
A full-bridge increase your engine oil consumption a fact
LONG LIVE AARONCAKE
Why is he not using lubricant for drilling? He's just toasting his bits
NoOneImportant556 hes going verys slow quilty bit will be absoloutly fine
RlCK SANSHEZ Quality bit and speed has nothing to do with the wear effects from friction and heat from 2 hard separate surfaces cutting and coming in contact with each other. Its going to wear the bit out much faster than if it was lubricated. Lubrication not only keeps heat and wear down it also clears and collects the shavings for a much finer and better cut. Not to mention it relieves the scratch scars from the scrap strips that attach to the bit it self while cutting.
It's machining 101.
NoOneImportant556 maybe it is only for filming. some youtubers don't use oil when filming something like this.
Toasting his bits... giggity!
NoOneImportant556 it's cast iron. You don't use lube on cast iron
omg rotary
!!
Weight reduction bro
Don't recommend BPs on a turbo rotary. Please look up overlap + turbo; this is not desired even on piston engines (+ turbo). The argument of having your (boosted) intake charge go downward to push the exhaust gases doesn't make sense? Your exhaust gases are on the order of several hundred psi of pressure at the exhaust port, and you won't be pushing more than 20 - 30psi of intake charge??? Then, why would you want your intake charge go downward? You want your intake charge to go up and over, so going downward is going the wrong way!
Why did you drill the holes and then start at one end? You could've minimized errors if you had started from the inside and worked out.
Adding a BP also weakens the intake port due to the bridge itself.
Why not just go peripheral port (PP)???
If you're going to mess with overlap, just PP the intake or go secondary PP.
BP's are just a compromise port that causes more headaches.
The 13B-REW's are known to have some the best stock ports by the Japan shops.
Cleaning the stock ports up and match porting them will produce 600 - 700hp without going with a nasty BP.
You're also losing low end power (hey, if you can keep the revs over 5kRPM all the time on the track, then ignore) due to the overlap at low RPM's.
Regardless of exhaust PSI and intake PSI.. the gasses will travel the path of least resistance. The exhaust port has zero resistance while the intake bridge port will have the charge air coming in therefore the exhaust gasses will not travel the "wrong way".
If you read their article here: speed.academy/how-rotary-engine-porting-works/ they explain it pretty well for average person to understand.
You recommending going with peripheral porting pretty much goes against what you just said..
Also, this is for Ken's track only car.. who cares about low end power?
Tradusirlo en sepanor
Just turbo it guys
This is a turbo engine making this Bridgeport way to big in my opinion. Extreme rotaries are the best engine builders and machinists worldwide they have a template which illustrates this. Google extreme rotaries turbo bridge port, as used by the fastest in Puerto Rico and Australia, 1st and 2nd fastest in the world.
mechh bridge is overrated unless you plan on over 700
His right hand must have been burned at some point. Had some heavy scaring. Smart guy though.