The real winners are those who lived through this era and experienced the excitement of the time. 1995 was an amazing year ! The jump from 16-bit to 32-bit was just amazing and unlike nowadays , it was mind blowing seeing the 32-bit wars start as soon as the 16-bit wars ended, and all the bit players ( 3DO , Jag , CDi ) crash and burn while these 2 slugged it out. Anyway I believe that if more Japanese Saturn games were brought over the system would have lasted longer. My question to Game Sack is how come we didn't see any 3D games take advantage of the 4MB RAM cart ? Would that have pushed Saturn graphics past PS1 ?
It was hard to recode games for Saturn's quads using graphics rendering. Quads was failed experiment by Nvidia and it hinders Saturn in comparison with PS1 and N64. I used my Saturn for SNK ports from Neo Geo because it was much cheaper than owning AVS/CD (which weren't even released in Europe).
Did I say that it isn't? But even if Saturn is more powerful, who cares/cared? PS1 and N64 were much more successful (outside of Japan, Saturn was popular in Japan, because of Sakura Taizen games, also my favourites on Saturn) and Sega did some stupid decisions in late '90s which were fatal for them. I like Saturn, I owned one, and I owned PC Engine CD also, another underrated console, but that cannot change that they failed (in West). Hell, Nintendo 3DS is ridiculously underpowered compared to PS Vita and who is still selling like crazy and who isn't sold in West anymore? And I care about PS Vita much more than for Saturn, and it still means nothing for Vita's failure.
With all the resources Sega had, they needed a Sonic launch title. Even a 2D Sonic game at first and later on a 3D experience would have been a game changer for the system.
I don't think either, a Sonic in 2D or with 2D scrolling and 3D scenery à la Clockwork Knight would have been very badly perceived. this was the case for the Saturn version of shinobi. Moreover, the biggest problem of the Saturn not being its games, the situation would have been the same in the end.
All they needed to do was make a 2D, side scrolling Sonic with pre-rendered 3D effects, similar to Vectorman or Donkey Kong Country. If they could have developed it with great level designs, and more colors, etc; I feel like that would have still been seen as impressive at the time. Moreover,it would have greatly helped the sales of the system if it was packed in.
Sega adding 3D chips to the Saturn at the last minute wasnt the problem.. Not sharing their secrets to 3rd party developers, forcing them to learn on their own was.
VDP1 was designed to handle both 2d and 3d graphics from the very beginning. The 3d capabilities added at the last minute is a lie. I agree with your second point. Sega devs should have shared their graphic libraries to third party devs
The problem was not any last minute addition (Sony Added the Nvidia Geforce 7800/7900 derived "RSX" to the PS3 at the last moment when they realized that the CELL CPU wasn't powerful enough to handle all graphics work as they had previously thought and that ultimately did fine), the problem was that they were all off-the-shelf components, not really designed to work together, there were a lot of sub-processors and an interesting bus setup which made programming for the Saturn very complex, and consequently very very few developers could get the most out of it. The PS1 by comparison was far far more developer friendly, and was designed that way from the beginning. If Sega had given devs more assistance/provided better debug tools/development environments, perhaps it would have been different.
@@queercommunist Totally, the VDP 2 was added later to complete with the Model 2 arcade board, not the PS1 and boost the 2D capability by the way, even if it's use for 3D renders.
@@queercommunist From a hardware design perspective, VDP1/2 were added at "the last minute" (not really last minute, but they were not part of initial Saturn prototype).
you did not own both machines you big fat filthy liar you owned a virtual boy and your the only one who loved it dont you dare disagree with sosa the great
The model 1 (oval button) Japanese Saturn is grey with blue buttons, the model 2 (white, round button is the best looking, IMO. All USA models are black. The plastic will tend to yellow over time due to sunlight. It happens with most older equipment. It’s most noticeable on white models. UV light does it. Keep it out of the sun or use a cover.
oh yeah it would be great if you couldn't access a third of your current library of games on any given console because they were locked to other consoles. i always hated exclusivity.
I am talking about a mid range gaming PC as it's seen in general consensus. A low end PC is abot 300€, a mid range PC starts at about 500€ and a high end gaming PC is anything above about 1000€. Of course that's just an approxaimation, and everone can set the limits it a bit different, but that's it. If it's thousands of Dollars then it's not low end obviously. That's a common scheme, defined by people's needs. You cannot just come and say that 2000$ noa are low end, just because nvidia has insane price tags on their high end GPUs. These are of no relevance, because the share of people buying these is abysmall. so these products form a new price range above the former high end, you could call it enthusiast's class or whatever. And an consumer device's price range is not defined by what the hardware producers like having it, but from the customer's point of view. That's how it always has been and how it will be. Also the definition of gmaing PC's price ranges isn't of concern here, because I said a price tag anyway.
Would love to see a game optimzed perfectly for the saturn to see its true power that was never fully implemented. I loved mine and enjoyed every moment playing it.
@@shahedddddddddddddd not the best looking ofc, but the most technically advanced it could've been. well, it still was at the time of its release on DC
Also Decathlete runs in the high resolution mode at 60fps according to recent Sega Lord X video on it. Looks good, aside from some pop in on models thats a bit horrific.
Saturn got COMPLETELY shafted in the US. I owned one and was really disappointed in the amount of games I could actually locally get. The real magic is in Japanese releases.
Exactly. And the higher price too. I still find amusing there were tons of PS1 in the small shitty town I grew up, but I would only see Saturn in magazines. Either way, all I had was a 486 PC and Doom was the closest we had to the world of 3D. Until the PC started to bloom 96 onwards. The bonus was not having to buy a new system for newer games.
I only ended up getting a Saturn about a year. I had a Genesis, Sega CD, 32x stack and say Sega kick me in the balls after it stopped supporting it seemingly only months after the 32x was released, so I gave Sega the middle finger until the Dreamcast came out and didn't pay any attention to the Saturn. But getting a Saturn now, I've really been impressed with it.
Since the Real Boss of Sega of Japan (who "is"/are a large Corporation) rushed and Pushed S.Saturn of America to released Months before the summer vacation release date plan by Sega of America.
Me too. I traded in my Saturn for a ps1 at funcoland. I miss it though but I had no choice back then if you didn't have a ps1 you were really missing out
It seems like AAA games from this period were much more varied, since games were still aimed at "gamers" instead of the general public. I hate that AAA games try to appeal to *everyone* now days, since that pretty much sucks all of the personality out of them. It's a kind of Jack of all trades, but master of none situation, I guess. What do you guys think?
MrFireman106 I feel like they water everything down, you know? Horror games turned into horror/action games, RPG's all got simplified, strategy-RPGs pretty much don't exist anymore, etc. I know that all of these games are still being made by indie developers, but it just sucks that if you aren't a fan of the few genres that sell gangbusters, then you miss out on any AAA games.
Domestos Bleach "Thank you Mario, but our princess is in another castle. But for the low, low price of $19.99, you can start searching that castle for her now! Or, for just $39.99, we'll find her for you!"
Joseph Wise yeah i miss those days.They were also not afraid to try new things and new ideas,something sadly lacking these days (everything in a fucking sequel with mostly the same format as older tried and tested games these days)
That is true, but you also have to remember that back then games didn't cost as much to produce, which meant you didn't have to sell as many copies to make a profit.
auritone Yeah, that's a big part of it, but I wish that bigger game companies would make more niche products, and make up the difference by not spending an insanely high amount of money on each game, you know? John: Yeah, I really miss when games weren't all heartless sequels. If a new IP is handled properly, they can do well. I mean, imagine how well No Man's Sky would have sold if it was an actually good game?
Now that we finally were able to hack into the Sega Saturn, it would be cool to see what indie devs can do with the tech. Maybe we could get some super impressive games.
Game library on the PS1 was amazing! Tenchu, FF7, Twisted Metal 2, Spyro, Crash Bandicoot, Driver, Tomb Raider, Tekken, Syndicate Wars, GT2, Silent Hill, Resident Evil...not to mention the game trailer CD's that had Korn music videos. Man, those were the days. The crazy thing is, I haven't owned a console since the PS1 since I found true power in with the PC in the early 2000's. PS1 will always be my console though.
I feel like Saturn was lowkey an INCREDIBLE 2D SPRITE-BASED console when everything was shifting to 3D polygons/triangles and unfortunately, it made the Saturn get OVERLOOKED in the public perception. Because despite Genesis being a household name, it seemed like EVERYONE I KNEW GROWING UP moved to the PlayStation rather than the Saturn which was SO STRANGE TO ME at the time considering Sega was a respected name in gaming at the time and Sony hadn’t yet proven themselves.
That was amazing, excellent information regarding the differences between the Saturn and the PSX. I was always under the impression the PSX was an overall superior system, I didn't realize the Saturn was an under used unoptimized juggernaut of graphical power for the 32 bit era. Very informative.
I feel I missed out on a fantastic system, I was biased towards the PSX in that period for games like Twisted Metal and FF7. Might have to look into getting a Saturn for some retro fun.
I didn't discover Saturn's secrets until years later. At the time I was one of the many who thought Saturn was a weaker console and that PS1 was actually a 64-bit system and Saturn was only 32-bits. This is something Sony continually LIED to the press about over and over again about so like them and many others, I was CONNED and lied to. Although I'm a personal fan of Twisted Metal(its one of the very few 1st Party PlayStation series I like), I have grown to despise and detest Sony more than any other company out there. The SLIMY and sleazy things they've done and gotten away with is offensive.
@@Tornado1994 YEP,like teamin up with SHIT'ENDO 2 have LIK-SANG shut down.only took them 7yrs of court battles.& like MICRO'THIEVIN'SOFT so called "WORKED" with the above on a rival CD add-on 4 the snes,only 2 gleam as much intel,market knowledge as poss knowin full well they intended releasin their own console a-la PSX.same with MS workin with various SEGA etc,2 steal info on R&D,market knowledge ETC
@@Tornado1994 Hate to come out of nowhere 7 years after you wrote this, but it sounds like you're talking about the Jaguar, not the Saturn. The Saturn has no 64 bit functionality at all, and never claimed to be. The Atari and Sony definitely were butting heads though, with Atari threatening Sony and with detractors stating information about how the Jags CPUs were actually 32 bit, with only the blitter and bus being 64bit. Sony is definitely a slimy company, though.
Simplified, the Sega Saturn was the most powerful console in its generation by far, but its architecture was a nightmare to program for. Dual-CPU systems were still quite rare at the time, and to make matters worse the large part of the Saturn's processing horsepower was locked away in a DSP chip...I think that says it all when a DSP is involved in the rendering pipeline.
No it wasn't... The Saturn was TERRIBLE for 3D rendering (aka THE MAJORITY of that generation) and was basically completely lacking in true 3D hardware acceleration. (It made 3D images out of fucking 2D sprites instead of triangles for fucks sake! Can you say "2D hardware jury-rigged to run 3D?"). The N64 with its SGI developed "Reality Engine" in particular was on an entirely different UNIVERSE for 3D acceleration. Delusional Saturn fanboys are the fucking worst... -_-
@@Cooe. Quads were one of the two primary ways of creating 3D graphics back in the day before the entire industry standardized on using triangles due to them involving easier math, making the hardware easier and cheaper to make. Quads are not sprites, but sprite rendering techniques work better with quads. By the way, the term you wanted was jerry-rigged, not "jury-rigged". Like it or not, overall the Saturn was the most powerful of that generation. The N64 didn't have the resolution nor storage to render textured 3D scenes like the Saturn had. You can see this in the Duke Nukem ports for the three 32-bit generation consoles. PlayStation was the worst, N64 was, like many of its textured 3d games, extremely blurry, while the Saturn was crisp and ran at a smooth, high frame rate. From the 2D rendering, this video does a fantastic job going into why the Saturn was the best in that area, both in terms of raw power and real-world results.
@@GSFuckUCun..t with all those zero games you could get for it unless you sold both your legs? Sony's first console kicked the asses of both of the old boys thanks to their aggressive marketing and third party support
"I like Saturn better than PlayStation, but we have to be realistic." That's fantastic. That's how not to be a freak fanboy. This should be taught in schools. (Sega fan here)
@@youtubesuresuckscock Not true. Modern graphics cards are often poor at 2D. And some older games using interesting 2D techniques can lag. Most 2D games these days are actually 3D, like any Unity game.
@@youtubesuresuckscock lol if it's the reason for a better Castelvania port on PS1, what is the explaination for all the others Ports from Capcom or SNK better on Saturn ???? Saturn can manage infinite sprites, the PS1 don't, Saturn can manage more than Five independants Backgrounds, PS1 don't, Saturn have more RAM etc The Saturn can definitily manage a better 2D render and use this capacity also for increase 3D render.
@@eliasnicolasmiranda4940 probably, but the Saturn have this RAM cartridge option the PS1 don't. We can't always criticize the architecture of the saturn and not recognize what this architecture also has good
@@Nestalgba92023I think he meant compared to the dream cast. But I really don’t understand how this is a contest to me. Maybe it’s because I didn’t have a Sega but just looking at them here ps1 has it beat. But for my I went from nes, snes, ps1 all the way up the ps5. Ps2 is definitely my all time favorite. And I’ve had the psp and psvita. Or still have them. So maybe I’m just partial to PlayStation.
Sony did a great thing entering into the home console market and creating a brand that still holds up well. The Saturn was Sega of Japan going gung ho into another generation without the franchise's that made them successful during the 16-bit era. They should have had a new Phantasy Star game , Streets of Rage game and a Sonic game to spark development teams and show fans it was all covered.
@@segaunited3855 I'm not a fan of the Playstation at all but the systems from 1-4 were phenomenal in terms of third party support I still would rather prefer nintendos/sega strategy of hard carrying the system through in house first party exclusives. It's unfortunate that the only "real" gaming company left in the hardware market is nintendo
Both X-Men vs Street Fighter and Marvel Super Heroes vs Street Fighter had the tag team mechanic (which is half the point of the game) removed on the Playstation version, while it remained intact on the Saturn.
If you were gaming in the 5th gen, the PS1 was a much better console than the Saturn in almost every aspect. Today, the Saturn is the superior retro console to own because of its bigger and higher quality 2D arcade game library, which holds up a lot better than the PS1's early attempts at 3D gameplay.
everyone knows sprite based games are best on saturn, but that is not enough to give it a recommendation over playstation. not by a long shot. the jrpg's alone on ps1 run circles around anything on the saturn so not a chance saturn takes the cake. saturn failed for a reason and the most obvious one was lack of exciting software.
Mogwai_for_sale Think you need a history lesson on why the Saturn failed because "lack of exiting software" wasn't 1 of them! The Saturn has some great Jrpg's but most remained in japan thanks to mr Bernie Stolar, many of them have now been translated for the western market.
Johusep Lopez- 'even some 3D models in the special stages are used from "Sonic R"' .... THIS IS INCORRECT. Sonic Mania's special stage 3D Models were built from scratch and NOT sourced from Sonic R. Christian Whitehead himself confirmed they were built from scratch. ;)
Fun fact- the Saturn ALSO actually had better 3D graphics than the PS1, but was just harder to program for due to it's dual processor design. See- NiGHTS, Virtua Fighter 2 & Virtua Cop.
Ridge Racer Typ 4 is still my favorite racing game of all time. Great memories playing it with my best friend and the soundtrack was just incredible. Love that you guys used Motor Species.
I would love to see modern coders who really are in top of the game and know every trick, to make new games using the full power of the Saturn or hacks of current games. By the way, fun episode.
I had a Saturn growing up... loved it, and can't help myself to keep loving it. It's better than playstation? nope, but it's still a great system. Sony won the war being easier to program to... but that doesn't mean that the saturn have a bad library... there's awesome games in there and the right thing to do is enjoy both. Great video!
My dad bought me a Saturn for Christmas and all my mates got the PlayStation 🥴 I was a tad disappointed at the time but didn’t let it show… turns out it was one of my favourite consoles (after the n64) 😃
Ps1 libary: ff7, ff8, crash bandicot, mgs, resident evil, silent hill, spyro, dino crisis, syphon filter, Tomb Raider, ... etc etc N64 libary: mario 64, Oct, Majora, Conker, Turok, Golden eye, Banjo, Doom 64, star fox, Rayman 2, Killer Instict, Perfect Dark, ... Meanwhile Saturn: Panzer Dragoon, ArCade poRt... such many such woah No wonder why this shit fail, its like the Wii U but worse
Seems like Sega was always a bit ahead of their time, but early adaptation of new technology's of the time came around to bite them in the ass. Main examples are rushing the Sega Saturn and especially Sega Dreamcast to market just to be outdone a year or two later by rival company's. I suppose this could even apply to the Sega Genesis... It came out in '89 to outdo the NES just for the SNES to come out two years later. Same applies to the Dreamcast coming out in '99 ('98 really) to crush the PSX and N64, but failing to utilize DVD technology to compete with the upcoming PS2!
It looks they avoid the best PSX games so the comparaison can be possible, there is no other way to explain it... it would be similar to avoid Super Mario Games when talking about nintendo, I guess this guys really dont like PSX because they "forget" to mention about their games often for example, in another video about all console release games they just dont include psx
I had Steep Slope Sliders, but didn't obtain it until I bought my second Saturn around 2005. It was a hard game to find even at the end of the Saturn's life and I remember paying $50 for it on Amazon brand new. Excellent, excellent game and Cave really knocked it out of the park with this one. What a lot of people don't know is "Trick'n Snowboarder" for PlayStation is really an unofficial sequel. The graphics engine is the exact same, and the game plays and looks the exact same. It was also produced by Cave. I actually held the world record, unofficially, for highest score on steep slope sliders but didn't have a camera at the time to take a picture. I remember this vividly using the MAME version. Some guy online now has the highest score at 48,000 I believe but I remember rolling over the 5-digit score counter until it read about 20,000 again, making a total of around a hundred and twenty thousand points. I've spoken to the guy but since then he's told me he's been able to get into the 140s which I believe is almost impossible so I haven't tried it since then. Really a moot point since I have no proof but anyway, just wanted to say that out of snowboarding games; "Steep Slope Sliders" and its PlayStation counterpart have very fluid control almost like "1080" for N64....makes "Coolboarders" feel very clunky and odd, even though I love that game and that series as well. I suggest you check both Steep Slope Sliders and Trick 'n Snowboarder out!
More powerful in theory, but less powerful in reality? Sure sounds that way. When choosing between PS3 and 360 games I feel myself drawn towards the ostensibly more powerful PS3, but the controllers are shitastic and the PS3 versions of games aren't usually better than 360.
I always feel the need to argue whenever I see someone dis the PS3 controllers, simply because the asymmetry of the Xbox lineage really messes with my brain.
Let’s talk about the audio capabilities of both consoles: it is known that the very first model of the PS1 is probably the best CD Player money can buy, mostly because of the converters. But the Saturn was a beast too at audio, probably better in many ways. The YMF292, also known as the Saturn Custom Sound Processor (SCSP), was basically a Yamaha synth built in the Saturn. It had TONS of features. The both great. But I am Saturn fanboy for life. I take the Yamaha Synth any day.
I had great memories on both, but got the Saturn first. Panzer Dragoon, Virtua Fighter 2, Tomb Raider, and Blazing Dragons. All terrific games that I pumped countless hours into.
I got my Saturn from E.B. games and my friends got the PlayStation. We enjoyed both. Got my Saturn modded to play imports. I miss those days. I'm sad that the game industry is not what it use to be.
yes indeed it was a flop, mostly because of SEGA's poor marketing history, which it didnt help that they were wasting time and resources extending the Genesis/Megadrive's lifespan by adding the 32X and CD add-ons that essentially failed, had the excellent Sega CD titles been saved for Saturn's Launch, the system would've been a bigger success and the Dreamcast that followed would've had the funds to keep SEGA in the console wars a little longer.
Theres a lot of great games on the Saturn. But you cant compare it to the marketleader which received so much more support and money from the industry. The Saturn is more a System like the PC Engine in the 16-bit time ... if you like the system and know the great games on it ... you can get a huge fan of these machines. The Saturn is togethter with MD/Genesis and SNES my favourate console overall. I simply love the Saturn :)
It's incredible just how good Shenmue looked on it while in development, it was probably the one game that pushed the console to its absolute limit in polygonal visuals. That said, Capcom managed to port JJBA, a CPS3 title, onto the PS1, so it's not as though the PS1 didn't have a lot of potential in the other direction with the right tricks.
Besides what you guys mentioned, the inhouse fighting between Sega USA and Sega Japan also led to the Saturn's doom. Just like the Dreamcast. Both consoles had SO much potential that they never got to live up to.....
Over 25 years later I like the Saturn more then Ps1 these days even if I like them both. To me the Saturn is the better console, to bad it was to difficult to program because I think developers only scratched the surface with the Saturn. To bad around 700 games stayed in Japan.
@r33mote oh please good graphics doesn't mean the game is always good Look at metal gear on PS1 for example the graphics is decent but was considered one of the best games of all time While look at new games with great graphics always a disappointment Too much broken games with good graphics
It's because they don't release enough content. The most successful channels on YT will generally have at least 2 uploads per week. GS used to have episodes once per week, but now only release 2 per month.
game sack is such high quality. kids run the numbers. kids lean to the quick and easy content. gg game sack always quality all around. be cool to see behind the scenes thoughts and processes.
Yeah, totally agreed but they just Forgot a FEW remarkable games from SONY PLAYSTATION. NEED FOR SPEED Vigilante 8 Those where respectively the PINACLE of Arcade Racing and "Arena car Destruction" in Playstation. There are others but off course u cant list them all but these two should be on the categories shown in the video. BTW, Thnx for the GREAT job game Sack!
Picking 1998+ PS1 games is kind of unfair, as Saturn was already over as SEGA moved to Dreamcast. They should actually be compared to Dreamcast games. Overall this is a bit sad, there was still potential for the Saturn, had it be given a couple more years. Games had improved, especially 3D, starting late 1996/1997 and we know some nice things were in the works (Shenmue, VF3). Otherwise Suikoden and Vandal Hearts were released on Saturn (I completed Vandal Hearts recently in English). Vandal Hearts was great ! 3D was not added at the "last" moment in Saturn by the way. Don't spread this misinformation. We know it was already being implemented as early as 1993 in the prototypes.
@@aheiiv Short run and no third party support from certain companies. Granted Sega killed it like they did with the Saturn when it came to their own games and hardware. The company killed itself.
The Saturn killed the Dreamcast. After the Saturn, a lot of people werent trying to give Sega another chance. I had every Sega console and I reluctantly bought a PS1 after the Saturn was discontinued. The sheer number of games was overwhelming but, the quality wasnt a good as Saturn. Back then though, quantity over quality was the name of the game
@@saviorself1164 I also felt that way. I remember my friend showing me a PS1 and being impressed with the 3D but not really having much fun with it. Although in Japan Saturn had quality and quantity but still lost out to PlayStation due to a slightly higher price and lacking some third party games from big hitters like Squaresoft and Enix and Namco.
I had both consoles. The Saturn came out tops due to the amount of times I took the console to others houses. The games we played were Virtual Cop 1 and 2. House Of The Dead, Nights, Winter Heat, Steep Slope Sliders, Sonic R, Sega Rally, Virtua Fighter 2, Manx TT and Panzer Dragoon Zwei. Other shooters like Radiant Silvergun, Do Don Pachi, Daruis 2. Then the 4mb cart assisted games like Xmen vs Street Fighter, Marvel Super Heroes, Fatal Fury and KOF 95,96 and 97. The big multiplayer was 10 player Saturn Bomberman ( i had only 6 pads). I'd say PS1 and Saturn held their own in my house though.i enjoyed PS Wild Arms, Final Fantasy 7 and 8, Tekken 2, Wipeout, Knockout Kings, Rayman and Metal Gear Solid. At home with the Saturn I enjoyed Panzer Dragoon Saga, Shining in the holy ark, Guardian Heroes, Baku Baku, , Mystaria and Exhumed.
I never really got a chance to play the Saturn. None of my friends had one. All I remember was always seeing that no one was renting any of the Saturn games at every Blockbuster I went to.
ONe thing though, you didnt mention Wild Arms 1, which was pivotal for showcasing what the playstations capabilities were in the mid 90s to make an rpg look more than just something for nerds. PLus that western theme and the music was great.
I miss the days of Nintendo vs Sega. I was really mad at both companies on how they handled consoles in mid to late 90s. Sega should still be around and they would be if not for the 32X and the $299 early release disaster.
fair is fair. as big of a Sega fan I am and was, Sony simply out did Sega. Sega foolishly never tapped the full potential of what it had. that and screwing over developers and retailers made the Saturn a near stillborn. The Saturn would have its revenge in a way as more intrigue and demand is in place for it today as collectors pay out the ass for its games.
+Tornado1994 my brother knows full well how slimy Sony is. My brother and a partner were starting out in the business of projectors years ago when Sony would pay third parties to buy my brothers projectors and try to knock them off. They never were able to entirely because they couldn't figure out what was making the image so sharp from his projectors. my brother told me it was a simple washer in the right place that did it. Sony couldn't figure it out as the washer looked like a natural part of the projector. lol But Sony would get the last laugh as my brothers business didn't take off. my brother and his partner wanted to own the business and not sell it to investors. unfortunately without big backing or unitial capitol, his business flopped. But also look at Bleem Sony lost every case but ultimately won as bleem couldn't keep up with the onslaught of frivolous lawsuits sucking thier resources. Sony plays very dirty indeed.
Sony PS1 is actually stolen Sega hardware with Stolen Nintendo designs and concepts. And yes, they play VERY slimy. They shoehorned in Blu Ray and crippled HD-DVD by making backroom deals with licensors and Hollywood, have frequently tried to MONOPOLIZE markets time and time again. Sony also played dirty with PS2's launch. They paid News Journalists and Magazines to parrot the console and over hype it. LIED about its Polygon capabilities, Bribed developers and Publishers, and went as far as to making up false stories like "PS2's CPU is being used in Iraqi Missles" to create a false sense of it being cutting edge. The reason why they ran Bleem and Connetix out of business is very simple: Emulation leads to Jailbreaking and Jailbreaking leads to hacking. Had Sony let the Emulators stay on the market, Hackers and orogrammers would have cracked the secret Language code of PS1's RA3000 CPU which would have exposed a dirty,sleazy trade secret: The PlayStation was NOT the 32-bit 3D powerhouse Sony paraded as, it was actually weaker and inferior to Saturn in every way. This means that Sony had been LYING and DECEIVING people about its specs which meant Sony would have been exposed as guilty for "Trade and Marketing Deception" for intentionally misleading consumers and developers about its power which is illegal. Yes, Sony has been LYING flat out about PS1's power for years. Sony is very close to collapse. They've been swimming in RED since 2009 and keep posting losses annually, the PS4 makes very little in revenue compared to PS1 and PS2 which is not enough to offset the continued bleeding of cash from all of its sinking divisions. Sony will eventually sell off PlayStation within about 2 to 3 years. If they don't, they'll drown in a sea of $30 billion dollars worth of debt.
+Tornado1994 interesting. I know they lost big with the ps3, at least initially. I heard they had to literally beg developers to make games and cut unfavourable deals for them them to just keep the games going on the ps3. I don't know how true any of that is but it is not unfathomable. but thanks for the info, we will see where they end up or if they get out of the business all together.
PS3 took 7 years to develop(Sony was already working on it when Dreamcast came out) cost $10 billion, and resulted in them never actually making its full budget back plus $5 billion in budget shortfall losses for 5 years during 2006-2011 you add that in with Sony's main divisions tanking and collapsing. Sony even sold off all of its equity to fund PS4. $2 billion worth. They only have $5.5 billion in Cash for the whole company. They're literally broke in R&D funds.
Pad players who are Novice and pro prefer fighting games with the shoulder buttons actually. Thats because you can combo with light/medium attacks into heavy and super attacks easier with shoulder buttons. If u look at the pad players who won EVO and Capcom Cup, luffy and nuckledu, they won it with a ps1 and ps2 controller. And all the other pro pad players use shoulder buttons. No one uses saturn controllers
It's simple. I owned a Sega Saturn for the arcade ports. Daytona Virtual-on Virtua cop Virtua fighter series and so on. Owned the PlayStation for the exclusives. Metal gear Gran Turismo soul blade and Tekken. Why choose?
Sadly Climax Entertainment went out of business and only Matrix Software remains the heritage of Landstalker DNA. Climax Entertainment did made Tenchi no Mon series on PSP though. But Matrix is the one who took staff behind Landstalker from Climax and Telenet Japan devs to found Matrix Software in 1994. With that result we got Alundra. I wish Sony go back to Matrix and create a new action RPG with Zelda BOTW approach that stays true to their Landstalker/Alundra heritage. Alundra 2 and Dual Hearts are irrelevant games that build up for games they make today. Kind of shame.
The Saturn may not have gotten the Final Fantasy games but they did have the awesome Shining series of tactical role playing games. Thanks to the Shining Force III Translation Project I'm finally going to be able to see that trilogy to completion. The Saturn also has the best audio CD player on a console and I keep the system hooked up to my TV in order to be able to use it that way.
It's by far the best system for 2D arcade conversions. Sony managed to win the 3D adventure games, which is funny, because they still do to this day. I bought a Saturn later on just for Radiant Silvergun and Metal Slug.
+Big Blue Frontend You're a clueless hater. For start the Saturn got many arcade ports with exclusive content (new stages, new game modes, improved soundtracks...) which makes them worthy *in any cases* plus it also has several console exclusive shooters like Thunder Force V (better than Playstation btw), Blast Wind, Panzer Dragoon 1 and 2... And there are many Saturn games that are still exclusive to the system not to mention that all of these, shooters or not, exclusives or not, are best played on real Saturn hardware with a CRT. So ye, nice fail not to mention that if you want to bring emulation to the table then any retro systems is "worthless".
Sega was the Saturn's biggest enemy. Between the $100 higher price tag, the loss in customer trust thanks to the 32X debacle and the hardware that was difficult to program for, the Saturn never stood a chance.
@@kekeke8988 Not in Japan tho. There were a ton more games made in Japan and it sold better out there too. Sega of America are the ones that botched it here in the states for the rest of us which is unfortunate.
Hell yeah!.. that kick-ass Formula One's soundtrack right from the start! Sega should consider bringing Shining Force 3 and Dragon Force on Steam, after all tons of Genesis & Dreamcast games are already there.
I always noticed that sega Saturn polygons were less poppy on not early games, on Virtua Fighter 2 for example. But the lightning on PlayStation was much better, better even than some arcades of the time (Soul Edge 😮). If you ask me about 2d, I really loved 4MB cartdridge 😉 I don't know wich were better at last 🤔
The PlayStation had incredibly software, but sega's first party games on the Saturn show its overall potential and why it's better hardware wise. Especially the Virtua Fighter 3 & Shenmue Saturn demos. Those games could never run on a ps1. I think the pinnacle of its graphics though peaked with gran tourismo 2 & Ridge Racer R4. Which, don't even compare with the best graphics of the Saturn
gamecreaterdude13 Quake 2 really stresses the PS1 hardware that my backup on real hardware had framerate slowdowns to about 15 or 10fps in levels with too many explosions at the same time. Also it runs at 512x240 resolution. Imo this game was the limit of the PSX but i know that Saturn can do better than this (vf3 and shenmue for example as you said previously) ir the developers knew how to develop for saturn... bad decision from Sega
It entirely comes down to personal taste. In 2022 I find titles like Super Tempo, Nights and Magic Knight Rayearth a WHOLE LOT MORE enjoyable than titles like Tomba, Crash Bandicoot and FF7. I enjoy both consoles and have owned both, but I like the Saturn more for its games.
"I really wanted a Zelda game on CD". Luckily, you could play it on the Philips CD-i... :O
Well, excuuuuuuuse me
Hahaha. Truly a case of be careful what you wish for.
You’ve got to be kidding.
Wasn't that just a port to the CD-i? Not originally made for the console necessarily, I could be mistaken though!
@John Martin Cantorne there's 3 Zelda games on the CD-I
The real winners are those who lived through this era and experienced the excitement of the time. 1995 was an amazing year ! The jump from 16-bit to 32-bit was just amazing and unlike nowadays , it was mind blowing seeing the 32-bit wars start as soon as the 16-bit wars ended, and all the bit players ( 3DO , Jag , CDi ) crash and burn while these 2 slugged it out. Anyway I believe that if more Japanese Saturn games were brought over the system would have lasted longer. My question to Game Sack is how come we didn't see any 3D games take advantage of the 4MB RAM cart ? Would that have pushed Saturn graphics past PS1 ?
Sega actually planned the cartridges to go up 128MB! but it never happened sadly.
Thavash Govender Final Fight Revenge used the 4mb ram cart and Capcom doesn't took advantage of the 3D hardware of the Saturn...
It was hard to recode games for Saturn's quads using graphics rendering. Quads was failed experiment by Nvidia and it hinders Saturn in comparison with PS1 and N64. I used my Saturn for SNK ports from Neo Geo because it was much cheaper than owning AVS/CD (which weren't even released in Europe).
Did I say that it isn't? But even if Saturn is more powerful, who cares/cared? PS1 and N64 were much more successful (outside of Japan, Saturn was popular in Japan, because of Sakura Taizen games, also my favourites on Saturn) and Sega did some stupid decisions in late '90s which were fatal for them. I like Saturn, I owned one, and I owned PC Engine CD also, another underrated console, but that cannot change that they failed (in West). Hell, Nintendo 3DS is ridiculously underpowered compared to PS Vita and who is still selling like crazy and who isn't sold in West anymore? And I care about PS Vita much more than for Saturn, and it still means nothing for Vita's failure.
Thavash Govender facts
With all the resources Sega had, they needed a Sonic launch title. Even a 2D Sonic game at first and later on a 3D experience would have been a game changer for the system.
It was the developers of Sonic Mania, they said they basically made the 2D Sonic Saturn game that should have happened but never did.
Especially They never had their Big franchise games street of rage for example
R.I.P sonic xtreme
I don't think either, a Sonic in 2D or with 2D scrolling and 3D scenery à la Clockwork Knight would have been very badly perceived. this was the case for the Saturn version of shinobi. Moreover, the biggest problem of the Saturn not being its games, the situation would have been the same in the end.
All they needed to do was make a 2D, side scrolling Sonic with pre-rendered 3D effects, similar to Vectorman or Donkey Kong Country. If they could have developed it with great level designs, and more colors, etc; I feel like that would have still been seen as impressive at the time. Moreover,it would have greatly helped the sales of the system if it was packed in.
Sega adding 3D chips to the Saturn at the last minute wasnt the problem..
Not sharing their secrets to 3rd party developers, forcing them to learn on their own was.
VDP1 was designed to handle both 2d and 3d graphics from the very beginning. The 3d capabilities added at the last minute is a lie. I agree with your second point. Sega devs should have shared their graphic libraries to third party devs
The problem was not any last minute addition (Sony Added the Nvidia Geforce 7800/7900 derived "RSX" to the PS3 at the last moment when they realized that the CELL CPU wasn't powerful enough to handle all graphics work as they had previously thought and that ultimately did fine), the problem was that they were all off-the-shelf components, not really designed to work together, there were a lot of sub-processors and an interesting bus setup which made programming for the Saturn very complex, and consequently very very few developers could get the most out of it. The PS1 by comparison was far far more developer friendly, and was designed that way from the beginning. If Sega had given devs more assistance/provided better debug tools/development environments, perhaps it would have been different.
@@queercommunist Ikr. So tired of people spreading that piece of misinformation.
@@queercommunist Totally, the VDP 2 was added later to complete with the Model 2 arcade board, not the PS1 and boost the 2D capability by the way, even if it's use for 3D renders.
@@queercommunist From a hardware design perspective, VDP1/2 were added at "the last minute" (not really last minute, but they were not part of initial Saturn prototype).
I own both consoles, Great machines, good old times!
With 20 years they still working!
Great video
you did not own both machines you big fat filthy liar
you owned a virtual boy and your the only one who loved it
dont you dare disagree with sosa the great
I love the look of the Saturn. Reminds me of a jet black sports car.
Sega always did great looking systems.
The Japanese Saturn is the best looking system I can think of
The model 1 (oval button) Japanese Saturn is grey with blue buttons, the model 2 (white, round button is the best looking, IMO. All USA models are black. The plastic will tend to yellow over time due to sunlight. It happens with most older equipment. It’s most noticeable on white models. UV light does it. Keep it out of the sun or use a cover.
Soon as "Rollllllinnnnnng starrrrrrt" plays christ brings tears to my eyes so many memories
I miss when consoles weren't exact replicas of one another.
Replicas of mid range PCs actually.
Ah, the good ole days.
oh yeah it would be great if you couldn't access a third of your current library of games on any given console because they were locked to other consoles.
i always hated exclusivity.
We don't have 1995. a mid range PC is about 500€.
I am talking about a mid range gaming PC as it's seen in general consensus. A low end PC is abot 300€, a mid range PC starts at about 500€ and a high end gaming PC is anything above about 1000€. Of course that's just an approxaimation, and everone can set the limits it a bit different, but that's it.
If it's thousands of Dollars then it's not low end obviously. That's a common scheme, defined by people's needs. You cannot just come and say that 2000$ noa are low end, just because nvidia has insane price tags on their high end GPUs. These are of no relevance, because the share of people buying these is abysmall. so these products form a new price range above the former high end, you could call it enthusiast's class or whatever. And an consumer device's price range is not defined by what the hardware producers like having it, but from the customer's point of view. That's how it always has been and how it will be.
Also the definition of gmaing PC's price ranges isn't of concern here, because I said a price tag anyway.
Would love to see a game optimzed perfectly for the saturn to see its true power that was never fully implemented.
I loved mine and enjoyed every moment playing it.
You can, just have a look at virtua fighter 2.
Look up videos of Shenmue for the Saturn. It would have been the best-looking game of that generation had it been released.
@@shahedddddddddddddd not the best looking ofc, but the most technically advanced it could've been. well, it still was at the time of its release on DC
check out the 2D games those are perfect
Also Decathlete runs in the high resolution mode at 60fps according to recent Sega Lord X video on it. Looks good, aside from some pop in on models thats a bit horrific.
Saturn got COMPLETELY shafted in the US. I owned one and was really disappointed in the amount of games I could actually locally get.
The real magic is in Japanese releases.
Exactly. And the higher price too. I still find amusing there were tons of PS1 in the small shitty town I grew up, but I would only see Saturn in magazines. Either way, all I had was a 486 PC and Doom was the closest we had to the world of 3D. Until the PC started to bloom 96 onwards. The bonus was not having to buy a new system for newer games.
I only ended up getting a Saturn about a year. I had a Genesis, Sega CD, 32x stack and say Sega kick me in the balls after it stopped supporting it seemingly only months after the 32x was released, so I gave Sega the middle finger until the Dreamcast came out and didn't pay any attention to the Saturn. But getting a Saturn now, I've really been impressed with it.
Since the Real Boss of Sega of Japan (who "is"/are a large Corporation) rushed and Pushed S.Saturn of America to released Months before the summer vacation release date plan by Sega of America.
Me too. I traded in my Saturn for a ps1 at funcoland. I miss it though but I had no choice back then if you didn't have a ps1 you were really missing out
@@onionheadguy7094 yall remember the playstation 1 demo disc! Lol good times
It seems like AAA games from this period were much more varied, since games were still aimed at "gamers" instead of the general public. I hate that AAA games try to appeal to *everyone* now days, since that pretty much sucks all of the personality out of them. It's a kind of Jack of all trades, but master of none situation, I guess. What do you guys think?
MrFireman106 I feel like they water everything down, you know? Horror games turned into horror/action games, RPG's all got simplified, strategy-RPGs pretty much don't exist anymore, etc. I know that all of these games are still being made by indie developers, but it just sucks that if you aren't a fan of the few genres that sell gangbusters, then you miss out on any AAA games.
Domestos Bleach "Thank you Mario, but our princess is in another castle. But for the low, low price of $19.99, you can start searching that castle for her now! Or, for just $39.99, we'll find her for you!"
Joseph Wise yeah i miss those days.They were also not afraid to try new things and new ideas,something sadly lacking these days (everything in a fucking sequel with mostly the same format as older tried and tested games these days)
That is true, but you also have to remember that back then games didn't cost as much to produce, which meant you didn't have to sell as many copies to make a profit.
auritone Yeah, that's a big part of it, but I wish that bigger game companies would make more niche products, and make up the difference by not spending an insanely high amount of money on each game, you know?
John: Yeah, I really miss when games weren't all heartless sequels. If a new IP is handled properly, they can do well. I mean, imagine how well No Man's Sky would have sold if it was an actually good game?
I like that positives and negatives of both systems were touched upon and this is as unbiased a review of the two systems I have seen. Good work
Soul Edge/Blade's opening is still one of my favorite songs today. TO SHINE!
Oh yes..one of a kind still to this day! ''this victory strengthens the soul of playstation''!
This!!!!!
Now that we finally were able to hack into the Sega Saturn, it would be cool to see what indie devs can do with the tech. Maybe we could get some super impressive games.
The Saturn wasn't hacked at all. Its an unhackable system. The CD ROM BIOS was cracked, that's all.
Hardware is to hard to program for. You will never see this unfortunately
@@Tornado1994 search RUclips for "Sega Saturn cracked after 20 years"
Saturn emulation owes ALLOT to this man's efforts
Crazy how the Saturn is so insanely hard to hack but Sega's next system the Dreamcast was cracked wide open almost immediately.
@@HerecomestheCalavera the power of having multi CPUs
Game library on the PS1 was amazing! Tenchu, FF7, Twisted Metal 2, Spyro, Crash Bandicoot, Driver, Tomb Raider, Tekken, Syndicate Wars, GT2, Silent Hill, Resident Evil...not to mention the game trailer CD's that had Korn music videos. Man, those were the days. The crazy thing is, I haven't owned a console since the PS1 since I found true power in with the PC in the early 2000's. PS1 will always be my console though.
Tenchu 👍
I feel like Saturn was lowkey an INCREDIBLE 2D SPRITE-BASED console when everything was shifting to 3D polygons/triangles and unfortunately, it made the Saturn get OVERLOOKED in the public perception.
Because despite Genesis being a household name, it seemed like EVERYONE I KNEW GROWING UP moved to the PlayStation rather than the Saturn which was SO STRANGE TO ME at the time considering Sega was a respected name in gaming at the time and Sony hadn’t yet proven themselves.
That was amazing, excellent information regarding the differences between the Saturn and the PSX. I was always under the impression the PSX was an overall superior system, I didn't realize the Saturn was an under used unoptimized juggernaut of graphical power for the 32 bit era. Very informative.
Saturn is actually a 64-bit console at heart.
I feel I missed out on a fantastic system, I was biased towards the PSX in that period for games like Twisted Metal and FF7. Might have to look into getting a Saturn for some retro fun.
I didn't discover Saturn's secrets until years later. At the time I was one of the many who thought Saturn was a weaker console and that PS1 was actually a 64-bit system and Saturn was only 32-bits. This is something Sony continually LIED to the press about over and over again about so like them and many others, I was CONNED and lied to.
Although I'm a personal fan of Twisted Metal(its one of the very few 1st Party PlayStation series I like), I have grown to despise and detest Sony more than any other company out there. The SLIMY and sleazy things they've done and gotten away with is offensive.
@@Tornado1994 YEP,like teamin up with SHIT'ENDO 2 have LIK-SANG shut down.only took them 7yrs of court battles.& like MICRO'THIEVIN'SOFT so called "WORKED" with the above on a rival CD add-on 4 the snes,only 2 gleam as much intel,market knowledge as poss knowin full well they intended releasin their own console a-la PSX.same with MS workin with various SEGA etc,2 steal info on R&D,market knowledge ETC
@@Tornado1994 Hate to come out of nowhere 7 years after you wrote this, but it sounds like you're talking about the Jaguar, not the Saturn. The Saturn has no 64 bit functionality at all, and never claimed to be. The Atari and Sony definitely were butting heads though, with Atari threatening Sony and with detractors stating information about how the Jags CPUs were actually 32 bit, with only the blitter and bus being 64bit. Sony is definitely a slimy company, though.
Simplified, the Sega Saturn was the most powerful console in its generation by far, but its architecture was a nightmare to program for. Dual-CPU systems were still quite rare at the time, and to make matters worse the large part of the Saturn's processing horsepower was locked away in a DSP chip...I think that says it all when a DSP is involved in the rendering pipeline.
Not to mention its distribution of games/lack of interest to localize/export titles to the US didn't help, either.
No it wasn't... The Saturn was TERRIBLE for 3D rendering (aka THE MAJORITY of that generation) and was basically completely lacking in true 3D hardware acceleration. (It made 3D images out of fucking 2D sprites instead of triangles for fucks sake! Can you say "2D hardware jury-rigged to run 3D?"). The N64 with its SGI developed "Reality Engine" in particular was on an entirely different UNIVERSE for 3D acceleration. Delusional Saturn fanboys are the fucking worst... -_-
@@Cooe. just stf up and rant somewhere else
@@Cooe. The Saturn still has more games worth playing in 2023 than the 6-7 Nintendo/Rare games worth playing on the N64 🤷♂
@@Cooe. Quads were one of the two primary ways of creating 3D graphics back in the day before the entire industry standardized on using triangles due to them involving easier math, making the hardware easier and cheaper to make. Quads are not sprites, but sprite rendering techniques work better with quads. By the way, the term you wanted was jerry-rigged, not "jury-rigged".
Like it or not, overall the Saturn was the most powerful of that generation. The N64 didn't have the resolution nor storage to render textured 3D scenes like the Saturn had. You can see this in the Duke Nukem ports for the three 32-bit generation consoles. PlayStation was the worst, N64 was, like many of its textured 3d games, extremely blurry, while the Saturn was crisp and ran at a smooth, high frame rate.
From the 2D rendering, this video does a fantastic job going into why the Saturn was the best in that area, both in terms of raw power and real-world results.
Even though PlayStation was the better option back then, I will always have a place in my heart for the Sega Saturn.
Same here
wrong Sega Saturn was the better one
@@GSFuckUCun..t no
i had a PS1 far away after the Saturn and back then, i absolutely have no regret.
@@GSFuckUCun..t with all those zero games you could get for it unless you sold both your legs? Sony's first console kicked the asses of both of the old boys thanks to their aggressive marketing and third party support
5:29 But Dave, you got the Zelda game on CD you were hoping for and it's called Link: The Faces of Evil on Philips CD-i!
I poop on that game. I choose to not remember those titles.
Phil Shary Exuseeeee meeeee princesssss! Zelda On N64 Not on Ps1 or Satburn!!!!!
Game Sack Da1 1
This era was the best for another reason: the light gun shooters. Project: Horned Owl and the Virtua Cops and all of those were so damn fun.
"I like Saturn better than PlayStation, but we have to be realistic." That's fantastic. That's how not to be a freak fanboy. This should be taught in schools. (Sega fan here)
@@youtubesuresuckscock Not true. Modern graphics cards are often poor at 2D. And some older games using interesting 2D techniques can lag. Most 2D games these days are actually 3D, like any Unity game.
@@youtubesuresuckscock lol if it's the reason for a better Castelvania port on PS1, what is the explaination for all the others Ports from Capcom or SNK better on Saturn ????
Saturn can manage infinite sprites, the PS1 don't, Saturn can manage more than Five independants Backgrounds, PS1 don't, Saturn have more RAM etc The Saturn can definitily manage a better 2D render and use this capacity also for increase 3D render.
@@ciredecgellar8232 thanks to the avantage of these RAM cartridges without them it gonna looks like the shitty PS1 version
@@eliasnicolasmiranda4940 probably, but the Saturn have this RAM cartridge option the PS1 don't. We can't always criticize the architecture of the saturn and not recognize what this architecture also has good
"sega fan here", no shit!
The Sega Saturn can do 480p?!? 😱😱 Even earlier than the Dreamcast
yeah,but with ultra shity graphics :D :D
In 1995?! As a home Console?!
@@Nestalgba92023I think he meant compared to the dream cast. But I really don’t understand how this is a contest to me. Maybe it’s because I didn’t have a Sega but just looking at them here ps1 has it beat. But for my I went from nes, snes, ps1 all the way up the ps5. Ps2 is definitely my all time favorite. And I’ve had the psp and psvita. Or still have them. So maybe I’m just partial to PlayStation.
Thing is Saturn has both Suikoden I and Vandal Hearts lol. I have both!!
There was a version of Vandal Hearts for Saturn?!
I'll play 10 player Sega Saturn Bomberman with you guys XD
Me too, guess we still need 6 more tho
Makes that 5 more : D
I'd totally join you guys! I'm planning to either get this one or Magic Knight Rayearth after Christmas in fact XD
Count me in.
I'd join.
Sony did a great thing entering into the home console market and creating a brand that still holds up well. The Saturn was Sega of Japan going gung ho into another generation without the franchise's that made them successful during the 16-bit era. They should have had a new Phantasy Star game , Streets of Rage game and a Sonic game to spark development teams and show fans it was all covered.
Sony made the gaming industry what it is today.
@@RobertK1993 Which represents the WORST things about it.
@@segaunited3855 I'm not a fan of the Playstation at all but the systems from 1-4 were phenomenal in terms of third party support
I still would rather prefer nintendos/sega strategy of hard carrying the system through in house first party exclusives.
It's unfortunate that the only "real" gaming company left in the hardware market is nintendo
Both X-Men vs Street Fighter and Marvel Super Heroes vs Street Fighter had the tag team mechanic (which is half the point of the game) removed on the Playstation version, while it remained intact on the Saturn.
Love that Soul Blade Edgemaster map music! From 3:52 - 4:31.
Soul Blade, one of my all time childhood PlayStation favourites.
If you were gaming in the 5th gen, the PS1 was a much better console than the Saturn in almost every aspect.
Today, the Saturn is the superior retro console to own because of its bigger and higher quality 2D arcade game library, which holds up a lot better than the PS1's early attempts at 3D gameplay.
That's because Saturn is a far more powerful console.
everyone knows sprite based games are best on saturn, but that is not enough to give it a recommendation over playstation. not by a long shot. the jrpg's alone on ps1 run circles around anything on the saturn so not a chance saturn takes the cake. saturn failed for a reason and the most obvious one was lack of exciting software.
Mogwai_for_sale
Think you need a history lesson on why the Saturn failed because "lack of exiting software" wasn't 1 of them!
The Saturn has some great Jrpg's but most remained in japan thanks to mr Bernie Stolar, many of them have now been translated for the western market.
Johusep Lopez- 'even some 3D models in the special stages are used from "Sonic R"' .... THIS IS INCORRECT.
Sonic Mania's special stage 3D Models were built from scratch and NOT sourced from Sonic R. Christian Whitehead himself confirmed they were built from scratch. ;)
Fun fact- the Saturn ALSO actually had better 3D graphics than the PS1, but was just harder to program for due to it's dual processor design. See- NiGHTS, Virtua Fighter 2 & Virtua Cop.
I enjoy how you guys are able to mix plain matter-a-factness with not taking yourselves seriously. Really great channel.
You mean matter of** fact??
@@shane7051 Six years ago yes, that's what I meant.
I miss these episodes soooo much!!!! The two of you guys together were amazing!
I love you guys. I especially love that when you upload it's Sunday morning where I live (Sweden). It's the perfect way to start the day.
Ridge Racer Typ 4 is still my favorite racing game of all time. Great memories playing it with my best friend and the soundtrack was just incredible. Love that you guys used Motor Species.
I would love to see modern coders who really are in top of the game and know every trick, to make new games using the full power of the Saturn or hacks of current games. By the way, fun episode.
I love both Playstation and Saturn! But the Saturn is more special to me though.
I had a Saturn growing up... loved it, and can't help myself to keep loving it. It's better than playstation? nope, but it's still a great system. Sony won the war being easier to program to... but that doesn't mean that the saturn have a bad library... there's awesome games in there and the right thing to do is enjoy both. Great video!
That Panzer Drg tho...
My dad bought me a Saturn for Christmas and all my mates got the PlayStation 🥴 I was a tad disappointed at the time but didn’t let it show… turns out it was one of my favourite consoles (after the n64) 😃
Your father was a very wise man to give you a saturn and not a playstation
I still remember the pal version of Daytona running at a glorious 10 fps...
not 10, surely?!
When you come watch older episodes to see Dave! Joe you're still killing it and I thank you!
Hella technically impressive to see these Beat'em Ups run on the Saturn. You could almost mistake them for Dreamcast games.
i dis\agree with you soft man
and for that
bring it on tough guy
The Saturn had the best version of Panza Dragoon while the PlayStation had the best version of Tekken 3.
Saturn had the *only* version of Panzer Dragoon you mean.
They're console exculsive games
Ps1 libary: ff7, ff8, crash bandicot, mgs, resident evil, silent hill, spyro, dino crisis, syphon filter, Tomb Raider, ... etc etc
N64 libary: mario 64, Oct, Majora, Conker, Turok, Golden eye, Banjo, Doom 64, star fox, Rayman 2, Killer Instict, Perfect Dark, ...
Meanwhile Saturn: Panzer Dragoon, ArCade poRt... such many such woah
No wonder why this shit fail, its like the Wii U but worse
Seems like Sega was always a bit ahead of their time, but early adaptation of new technology's of the time came around to bite them in the ass. Main examples are rushing the Sega Saturn and especially Sega Dreamcast to market just to be outdone a year or two later by rival company's. I suppose this could even apply to the Sega Genesis... It came out in '89 to outdo the NES just for the SNES to come out two years later. Same applies to the Dreamcast coming out in '99 ('98 really) to crush the PSX and N64, but failing to utilize DVD technology to compete with the upcoming PS2!
Awesome video guys! Appreciate the amount of work that obviously goes into your videos!
How the hell nobody mentions resident evil series for PlayStation.
It looks they avoid the best PSX games so the comparaison can be possible, there is no other way to explain it... it would be similar to avoid Super Mario Games when talking about nintendo, I guess this guys really dont like PSX because they "forget" to mention about their games often for example, in another video about all console release games they just dont include psx
Comparison purposes we all know resident evil sales
Because it sucked
Really have u played part 1 on both machines? And if u did How is ps better
Maybe because the first one was on the Saturn as well, and looks a lot better on it, which makes it a weird comparison?
I had Steep Slope Sliders, but didn't obtain it until I bought my second Saturn around 2005. It was a hard game to find even at the end of the Saturn's life and I remember paying $50 for it on Amazon brand new. Excellent, excellent game and Cave really knocked it out of the park with this one. What a lot of people don't know is "Trick'n Snowboarder" for PlayStation is really an unofficial sequel. The graphics engine is the exact same, and the game plays and looks the exact same. It was also produced by Cave. I actually held the world record, unofficially, for highest score on steep slope sliders but didn't have a camera at the time to take a picture. I remember this vividly using the MAME version. Some guy online now has the highest score at 48,000 I believe but I remember rolling over the 5-digit score counter until it read about 20,000 again, making a total of around a hundred and twenty thousand points. I've spoken to the guy but since then he's told me he's been able to get into the 140s which I believe is almost impossible so I haven't tried it since then. Really a moot point since I have no proof but anyway, just wanted to say that out of snowboarding games; "Steep Slope Sliders" and its PlayStation counterpart have very fluid control almost like "1080" for N64....makes "Coolboarders" feel very clunky and odd, even though I love that game and that series as well. I suggest you check both Steep Slope Sliders and Trick 'n Snowboarder out!
I had both, honestly I prefered my Sega Saturn...
Sega Rally, Virtua Fighter 2, Daytona USA, Virtua Cop ect。。。
In hardware terms Saturn was...the PS3? Damn.
Or the Original Xbox of that gen.
More powerful in theory, but less powerful in reality? Sure sounds that way.
When choosing between PS3 and 360 games I feel myself drawn towards the ostensibly more powerful PS3, but the controllers are shitastic and the PS3 versions of games aren't usually better than 360.
At least the Original Xbox worked
I always feel the need to argue whenever I see someone dis the PS3 controllers, simply because the asymmetry of the Xbox lineage really messes with my brain.
I can't use Dualshock controllers without getting an attack of acute carpal tunnel syndrome.
Let’s talk about the audio capabilities of both consoles: it is known that the very first model of the PS1 is probably the best CD Player money can buy, mostly because of the converters. But the Saturn was a beast too at audio, probably better in many ways. The YMF292, also known as the Saturn Custom Sound Processor (SCSP), was basically a Yamaha synth built in the Saturn. It had TONS of features.
The both great. But I am Saturn fanboy for life. I take the Yamaha Synth any day.
Loved Fighters Megamix... what a soundtrack too!
In my opinion the best home fighting game ever made.
@@expletivedeleted6424 Yep. Played it so much I unlocked all characters and could complete most training moves. Amazing game.
Knocking your opponent through the wall/cage!
@@MrCaptainobvious77 Yeah, esp. by pressing Back + Kick. 🤩
Ah, David-san, Joe-San. It's good to see you two again.
I had great memories on both, but got the Saturn first. Panzer Dragoon, Virtua Fighter 2, Tomb Raider, and Blazing Dragons. All terrific games that I pumped countless hours into.
I got my Saturn from E.B. games and my friends got the PlayStation. We enjoyed both. Got my Saturn modded to play imports. I miss those days. I'm sad that the game industry is not what it use to be.
Sony is one of the main reasons why this industry has gone to shit.
No....it's EA, 2k games, Activision/Blizzard, Ubisoft and Bethesda.
Shame the Sega Saturn failed. So much wasted potential. Nevertheless, Playstation definitely had better software overall.
yes indeed it was a flop, mostly because of SEGA's poor marketing history, which it didnt help that they were wasting time and resources extending the Genesis/Megadrive's lifespan by adding the 32X and CD add-ons that essentially failed, had the excellent Sega CD titles been saved for Saturn's Launch, the system would've been a bigger success and the Dreamcast that followed would've had the funds to keep SEGA in the console wars a little longer.
Theres a lot of great games on the Saturn. But you cant compare it to the marketleader which received so much more support and money from the industry. The Saturn is more a System like the PC Engine in the 16-bit time ... if you like the system and know the great games on it ... you can get a huge fan of these machines.
The Saturn is togethter with MD/Genesis and SNES my favourate console overall. I simply love the Saturn :)
MoonSpirit Of course. It doesn't matter how powerful the console is, if it doesn't have the games then it's nothing. And yeah, Saturn had potential...
MoonSpirit PS BY FAR is a better system and had better games by far. I had both.
It's incredible just how good Shenmue looked on it while in development, it was probably the one game that pushed the console to its absolute limit in polygonal visuals.
That said, Capcom managed to port JJBA, a CPS3 title, onto the PS1, so it's not as though the PS1 didn't have a lot of potential in the other direction with the right tricks.
Besides what you guys mentioned, the inhouse fighting between Sega USA and Sega Japan also led to the Saturn's doom. Just like the Dreamcast. Both consoles had SO much potential that they never got to live up to.....
I love how in the grand Turismo part he's like this game is all too real it's a sim , meanwhile he clips through another car
Over 25 years later I like the Saturn more then Ps1 these days even if I like them both. To me the Saturn is the better console, to bad it was to difficult to program because I think developers only scratched the surface with the Saturn. To bad around 700 games stayed in Japan.
what I like about these videos is that it let's me discover games I never would have considered looking out for. for both systems.
The original Sony Playstation had a great library of games
@Mastema always got to be a Debbie downer in the comments. In this case that would be you.
@r33mote oh please good graphics doesn't mean the game is always good
Look at metal gear on PS1 for example the graphics is decent but was considered one of the best games of all time
While look at new games with great graphics always a disappointment
Too much broken games with good graphics
You guys deserve more subs. Seriously,just under 172,000 subs??
Many channels deserve more subs
It's because they don't release enough content. The most successful channels on YT will generally have at least 2 uploads per week. GS used to have episodes once per week, but now only release 2 per month.
game sack is such high quality. kids run the numbers. kids lean to the quick and easy content. gg game sack always quality all around. be cool to see behind the scenes thoughts and processes.
Yeah, totally agreed but they just Forgot a FEW remarkable games from SONY PLAYSTATION.
NEED FOR SPEED
Vigilante 8
Those where respectively the PINACLE of Arcade Racing and "Arena car Destruction" in Playstation.
There are others but off course u cant list them all but these two should be on the categories shown in the video.
BTW, Thnx for the GREAT job game Sack!
they use to have a lot less, theyve gained traction the last year or two
I've never been bothered by the PSX dithering because I have conected by composite video. I got the Sega Saturn Too, both consoles are amazing.
Playstation may of had more games but image quality and load time is horrible compared to the Saturn
Picking 1998+ PS1 games is kind of unfair, as Saturn was already over as SEGA moved to Dreamcast. They should actually be compared to Dreamcast games. Overall this is a bit sad, there was still potential for the Saturn, had it be given a couple more years. Games had improved, especially 3D, starting late 1996/1997 and we know some nice things were in the works (Shenmue, VF3).
Otherwise Suikoden and Vandal Hearts were released on Saturn (I completed Vandal Hearts recently in English). Vandal Hearts was great !
3D was not added at the "last" moment in Saturn by the way. Don't spread this misinformation. We know it was already being implemented as early as 1993 in the prototypes.
4:10 Soul Blade / Soul Edge Theme in Backgound. It´s the Theme playing, when doing the Adventure Mode with that Map! Those Memories man...
brace yourself guys...
segata sanshiro will not be happy about this
Sega saturn was such missed potential just like the dreamcast...
Dreamcast did not have any missed potentials to speak of, maybe, except for the possible DVD release.
@@aheiiv Short run and no third party support from certain companies. Granted Sega killed it like they did with the Saturn when it came to their own games and hardware. The company killed itself.
I actually think the Dreamcast fulfilled it's potential, just not in popularity
The Saturn killed the Dreamcast. After the Saturn, a lot of people werent trying to give Sega another chance. I had every Sega console and I reluctantly bought a PS1 after the Saturn was discontinued. The sheer number of games was overwhelming but, the quality wasnt a good as Saturn. Back then though, quantity over quality was the name of the game
@@saviorself1164 I also felt that way. I remember my friend showing me a PS1 and being impressed with the 3D but not really having much fun with it. Although in Japan Saturn had quality and quantity but still lost out to PlayStation due to a slightly higher price and lacking some third party games from big hitters like Squaresoft and Enix and Namco.
I had both consoles. The Saturn came out tops due to the amount of times I took the console to others houses. The games we played were Virtual Cop 1 and 2. House Of The Dead, Nights, Winter Heat, Steep Slope Sliders, Sonic R, Sega Rally, Virtua Fighter 2, Manx TT and Panzer Dragoon Zwei. Other shooters like Radiant Silvergun, Do Don Pachi, Daruis 2. Then the 4mb cart assisted games like Xmen vs Street Fighter, Marvel Super Heroes, Fatal Fury and KOF 95,96 and 97. The big multiplayer was 10 player Saturn Bomberman ( i had only 6 pads). I'd say PS1 and Saturn held their own in my house though.i enjoyed PS Wild Arms, Final Fantasy 7 and 8, Tekken 2, Wipeout, Knockout Kings, Rayman and Metal Gear Solid. At home with the Saturn I enjoyed Panzer Dragoon Saga, Shining in the holy ark, Guardian Heroes, Baku Baku, , Mystaria and Exhumed.
The post-credits ending broke my heart.
I never really got a chance to play the Saturn. None of my friends had one. All I remember was always seeing that no one was renting any of the Saturn games at every Blockbuster I went to.
ONe thing though, you didnt mention Wild Arms 1, which was pivotal for showcasing what the playstations capabilities were in the mid 90s to make an rpg look more than just something for nerds. PLus that western theme and the music was great.
"SO-NEE PLAY-STAY-SHON!!!!"
The Saturn had Shining Force III. I rest my case.....
"Now bear my arctic blast!"
*coughs * Ogre Battle. BUt if the genre doesnt matter...Final Fantasy 7, Wild Arms, and 100 others lol :P
Now we’re pretty even
@Mastema have you ever had your nose pushed to the side of your ugly face??
Shining force best tactical rpg series period
I miss the days of Nintendo vs Sega. I was really mad at both companies on how they handled consoles in mid to late 90s. Sega should still be around and they would be if not for the 32X and the $299 early release disaster.
The Saturn was and still is phenomenal, but overall, the Play Station had a larger number of great games, so you guys are right.
fair is fair. as big of a Sega fan I am and was, Sony simply out did Sega. Sega foolishly never tapped the full potential of what it had. that and screwing over developers and retailers made the Saturn a near stillborn. The Saturn would have its revenge in a way as more intrigue and demand is in place for it today as collectors pay out the ass for its games.
Sony screwed over Nintendo and SEGA by resorting to dirty,slimy tactics.
+Tornado1994 my brother knows full well how slimy Sony is. My brother and a partner were starting out in the business of projectors years ago when Sony would pay third parties to buy my brothers projectors and try to knock them off. They never were able to entirely because they couldn't figure out what was making the image so sharp from his projectors. my brother told me it was a simple washer in the right place that did it. Sony couldn't figure it out as the washer looked like a natural part of the projector. lol But Sony would get the last laugh as my brothers business didn't take off. my brother and his partner wanted to own the business and not sell it to investors. unfortunately without big backing or unitial capitol, his business flopped. But also look at Bleem
Sony lost every case but ultimately won as bleem couldn't keep up with the onslaught of frivolous lawsuits sucking thier resources. Sony plays very dirty indeed.
Sony PS1 is actually stolen Sega hardware with Stolen Nintendo designs and concepts.
And yes, they play VERY slimy. They shoehorned in Blu Ray and crippled HD-DVD by making backroom deals with licensors and Hollywood, have frequently tried to MONOPOLIZE markets time and time again.
Sony also played dirty with PS2's launch. They paid News Journalists and Magazines to parrot the console and over hype it. LIED about its Polygon capabilities, Bribed developers and Publishers, and went as far as to making up false stories like "PS2's CPU is being used in Iraqi Missles" to create a false sense of it being cutting edge.
The reason why they ran Bleem and Connetix out of business is very simple: Emulation leads to Jailbreaking and Jailbreaking leads to hacking. Had Sony let the Emulators stay on the market, Hackers and orogrammers would have cracked the secret Language code of PS1's RA3000 CPU which would have exposed a dirty,sleazy trade secret: The PlayStation was NOT the 32-bit 3D powerhouse Sony paraded as, it was actually weaker and inferior to Saturn in every way. This means that Sony had been LYING and DECEIVING people about its specs which meant Sony would have been exposed as guilty for "Trade and Marketing Deception" for intentionally misleading consumers and developers about its power which is illegal.
Yes, Sony has been LYING flat out about PS1's power for years.
Sony is very close to collapse. They've been swimming in RED since 2009 and keep posting losses annually, the PS4 makes very little in revenue compared to PS1 and PS2 which is not enough to offset the continued bleeding of cash from all of its sinking divisions.
Sony will eventually sell off PlayStation within about 2 to 3 years. If they don't, they'll drown in a sea of $30 billion dollars worth of debt.
+Tornado1994 interesting. I know they lost big with the ps3, at least initially. I heard they had to literally beg developers to make games and cut unfavourable deals for them them to just keep the games going on the ps3. I don't know how true any of that is but it is not unfathomable. but thanks for the info, we will see where they end up or if they get out of the business all together.
PS3 took 7 years to develop(Sony was already working on it when Dreamcast came out) cost $10 billion, and resulted in them never actually making its full budget back plus $5 billion in budget shortfall losses for 5 years during 2006-2011 you add that in with Sony's main divisions tanking and collapsing.
Sony even sold off all of its equity to fund PS4. $2 billion worth.
They only have $5.5 billion in Cash for the whole company. They're literally broke in R&D funds.
Pad players who are Novice and pro prefer fighting games with the shoulder buttons actually. Thats because you can combo with light/medium attacks into heavy and super attacks easier with shoulder buttons. If u look at the pad players who won EVO and Capcom Cup, luffy and nuckledu, they won it with a ps1 and ps2 controller. And all the other pro pad players use shoulder buttons. No one uses saturn controllers
It's simple. I owned a Sega Saturn for the arcade ports. Daytona Virtual-on Virtua cop Virtua fighter series and so on. Owned the PlayStation for the exclusives. Metal gear Gran Turismo soul blade and Tekken. Why choose?
Wow! That’s exactly why I currently own my Saturn! Sega’s arcade games really were the best!
"This game was made by Climax and that's exactly what you're gonna do."
Hokay.
Sadly Climax Entertainment went out of business and only Matrix Software remains the heritage of Landstalker DNA.
Climax Entertainment did made Tenchi no Mon series on PSP though. But Matrix is the one who took staff behind Landstalker from Climax and Telenet Japan devs to found Matrix Software in 1994. With that result we got Alundra. I wish Sony go back to Matrix and create a new action RPG with Zelda BOTW approach that stays true to their Landstalker/Alundra heritage.
Alundra 2 and Dual Hearts are irrelevant games that build up for games they make today. Kind of shame.
Crash Bandicoot was so impressive, especially for the time. It still holds up today.
Panzer Dragoon Saga....damn....I love that game.
The DOA boobs comment had me LMAO! 😆
The Saturn may not have gotten the Final Fantasy games but they did have the awesome Shining series of tactical role playing games. Thanks to the Shining Force III Translation Project I'm finally going to be able to see that trilogy to completion. The Saturn also has the best audio CD player on a console and I keep the system hooked up to my TV in order to be able to use it that way.
Only halfway through, and if I already wasn't dying to get a Saturn, I'm frothing now.
Lets have a Dave vs Joe T-shirt collection episode
Tomba has a really cool 2D-3D mix! hard to tell sometimes, the 2D is handled so well.
Saturn is by far the system for shmups.
Agreed. and 2d fighters too.
The Dreamcast too
It's by far the best system for 2D arcade conversions. Sony managed to win the 3D adventure games, which is funny, because they still do to this day. I bought a Saturn later on just for Radiant Silvergun and Metal Slug.
+Big Blue Frontend
You're a clueless hater.
For start the Saturn got many arcade ports with exclusive content (new stages, new game modes, improved soundtracks...) which makes them worthy *in any cases* plus it also has several console exclusive shooters like Thunder Force V (better than Playstation btw), Blast Wind, Panzer Dragoon 1 and 2...
And there are many Saturn games that are still exclusive to the system not to mention that all of these, shooters or not, exclusives or not, are best played on real Saturn hardware with a CRT.
So ye, nice fail not to mention that if you want to bring emulation to the table then any retro systems is "worthless".
Which is a proper analogy for the system as a whole: a fleeting, niche focus
Sega was the Saturn's biggest enemy. Between the $100 higher price tag, the loss in customer trust thanks to the 32X debacle and the hardware that was difficult to program for, the Saturn never stood a chance.
Actually it DID stand a chance. Saturn was botched by SEGA's own civil war within its own company.
Cost more, had shittier games, had less games. No wonder the Saturn flopped.
SEGA America was the Saturns worst enemy.
@@kekeke8988 Not in Japan tho. There were a ton more games made in Japan and it sold better out there too. Sega of America are the ones that botched it here in the states for the rest of us which is unfortunate.
@@kb9969
Sadly, I'm virtually entirely ignorant of the Japanese Saturn library.
Hell yeah!.. that kick-ass Formula One's soundtrack right from the start!
Sega should consider bringing Shining Force 3 and Dragon Force on Steam, after all tons of Genesis & Dreamcast games are already there.
I love the video capture quality.
I like the saturn more but i understand your point.
I always noticed that sega Saturn polygons were less poppy on not early games, on Virtua Fighter 2 for example. But the lightning on PlayStation was much better, better even than some arcades of the time (Soul Edge 😮). If you ask me about 2d, I really loved 4MB cartdridge 😉 I don't know wich were better at last 🤔
Thanks guys for another great video. You all are the best!
Thank You!
The PlayStation had incredibly software, but sega's first party games on the Saturn show its overall potential and why it's better hardware wise. Especially the Virtua Fighter 3 & Shenmue Saturn demos. Those games could never run on a ps1. I think the pinnacle of its graphics though peaked with gran tourismo 2 & Ridge Racer R4. Which, don't even compare with the best graphics of the Saturn
Too bad the good graphics alone don't make a good game.
Too bad Shovelware doesn't make a good library.
gamecreaterdude13 Quake 2 really stresses the PS1 hardware that my backup on real hardware had framerate slowdowns to about 15 or 10fps in levels with too many explosions at the same time. Also it runs at 512x240 resolution. Imo this game was the limit of the PSX but i know that Saturn can do better than this (vf3 and shenmue for example as you said previously) ir the developers knew how to develop for saturn... bad decision from Sega
I love both systems. I'm a little more nostalgic for the Saturn. Dragon Force is one of my favorite games ever. Great video.
You had me at boob physics... YOU HAD ME AT BOOB PHYSICS!!!!! 😭
11:12 "Charge Timer"
Umm...that's the height indicator, dude.
hahahahah that ending was the best thank you. You guys absolutely rock!
"FFT has a charge timer" *zooms in on the height display*
I came down here looking for this comment, thanks
Btw FFT was way better than Vandal Hearts... Way better
I love these videos, half because of the video, half because I like reading the fanboy wars in the comments section
It entirely comes down to personal taste. In 2022 I find titles like Super Tempo, Nights and Magic Knight Rayearth a WHOLE LOT MORE enjoyable than titles like Tomba, Crash Bandicoot and FF7. I enjoy both consoles and have owned both, but I like the Saturn more for its games.
I loved both the Saturn and Playstation.
The Saturn was worth it just for Nights and the amazing 2-D games.