Why The PRS SE VS S2 Comparison Is A Problem
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- Опубликовано: 5 апр 2024
- #knowyourgear #podcast #guitarpodcast #geekystuff
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I've been playing guitar over 50 years, and have every level of PRS guitar. I believe the woods are better in the core and the S2 than the SE. The goal is always to produce the best guitar at each price point, and better wood costs more money. My S2 and core have never needed fret work, my SE's have. The Korean ones would usually make it about 2 years before the wood moves a little and the frets shifted. My recent Indonesian purchases have needed it after two months. The hardware on the S2 was better than the Indonesian guitars, especially the tremolo. I put a USA trem on my SE SAS because the stock one felt cheesy and didn't respond to my use as well as the older S2 and Core guitars. The neck carve on the Indonesian guitars has finally gotten to excellence. There were minor issues with both my Indonesian guitars, namely the tuners. The holes were not drilled straight, and the tuners were very loose when I took delivery of them. They also don't hold tune as well as the S2 and cores when gigging. The nut on my SAS needs to be replaced as well. I have always been happy with the quality of my S2's.
So you're saying the majority of indonesian mcarthty 594 SE is no good after long time of using?
Leveling up the S2 was probably an inevitable but calculated move. There's a lot of PRS hate out there (in the US at least) because people don't understand that PRS is the closest we can get today, to what Fender and Gibson were in their heydays. If people understood the story instead of looking at the guitars as "doctor/lawyer guitars" (just as they did 20 years ago) it would make more sense to people.
A Strat in 1955 was $249.50 in sunburst ($261.98 in blond!), which is in today's money almost $2900, and it's current equivalent (Leo Fender would have modernized the guitar over the decades), the "American Pro II" is more than $1000 less, and in most ways is a much better guitar. Forrest White (who organized the Fender factory from 1954 and rose to VP before leaving in 1966) remarked the Mexican-built Fenders in the early '90s were better than anything Fender made in the '50s. Even the US reissues today are still less than $2900. A $500 guitar in 1955 would be almost $5700 in today's money.
In the US, wages continue to fall far behind inflation and the lower volume from "flagship" guitar companies makes those "flagship" products more expensive.
The S2 Standards in particular are super-sleepers -- a more ergonomic SG with 22 or 24 frets with Core level pickups? If they'd done the Gen 2 tremolo on the trem guitars that would have really been special, but they probably didn't want that big of a price jump.
Excellent information, thanks.
Love your breakdown…although I agree with most of your analysis,there are “variables” that are harder to measure…like the 1955 strat production wasn’t a ”standard” but more of a custom shop since they were hand made. The labor cost of a cnc vs a hand made is very far apart and the quality of materials are arguably less nowadays vs then.
If you make the analysis in terms of equal labor, materials, and cost it yield a different conclusion.
Minimum wage in 1955 was about 0.85 an hour and a strat was 249.50. So you needed to work 293 hours to afford one.
Todays min wage is about 12.00 and a custom shop strat goes for about 4,350 thus you’d need to work 363 hours to afford one.
All in all it all depends what variables are important to the buyer…it’s hard to make a conclusion bc the guitar tiers are being diluted quite a bit.
I love my S2 , my favorite guitar to play.
It'll never happen while Paul is around, but I'd love to see stainless steel frets on the cores. And how about an S2 DGT?
I bought my first PRS about a year ago and I bought a se custom 24-08. Then I put PRS locking tuners and put them on it. It’s a great guitar. But then I came across PRS custom 24 and it’s a great guitar. The biggest difference is the se has 85-15s pickups and the core has 85-15 pickups. And the 85-15 pickups on the custom 24 really does out do the 85-15s pickups
I have one SE, two cores, and a CE24. All are great. You really can’t go wrong with any of the bunch.
Great work Phil. Hope you and the family are well. Keep up the excellent work.
Hey wanting binding is not stupid lol. I'm with you there! I went with ESP basses instead of Fender Professional II because they don't offer binding and block inlays for the same price.
PRS is the BMW of guitars. The SE is a 320, the S2 is a 330, the Core is an M-series.
BMW = Doctor / Lawyer automobile . Not the best analogy bro
@@glenngertz9429 I am neither and own one. And a PRS. Bro.
Phil, you make some very good points. I got an SE McCarty 594 single cut black gold (looks really sharp) because it was a very good value price wise especially on sale, the quality was excellent for the price and I'm not an electric guitar snob.
I am an acoustic guitar snob as most of my acoustics are USA made because the artists I listened to all played Martins, Gibsons and some Guilds. And I bought USA Taylors because they were a good value for USA made guitars (not not as much now). Many country western artists played and play Takamines because they were one of if not the first to put good pickups in their acoustics and they're a good quality consistent guitar.
Shopping for a Strat type guitar I might just go with and American Pro II for 1799 over anything else because it appears to have several improvements, meets a price point and the MIMs still appear to be kind of spotty.
I still go into a guitar store and play various units for a while before I buy to actually see what the build quality and tonality is like and try to buy from store inventory. Might go with a Player if I find one that's really good for 799 minus 10% (at GC) but wouldn't pay for higher priced Player as the price difference narrows a lot vs the Pro II.
AFA the S2s and the Cores go, I don't know enough about them, and I'd rather go with a real Fender at this point (I tried the SE Silver Sky and it was OK but didn't ring my bell).
Se silver sky just ok?
The MIM’s are not spotty from what I’ve seen. I have several and all I’ve ever had to do is do a setup on the guitars and I’ve had to do the same thing on my US made. Setups are personal preferences but the quality of the MIM’s are incredible. The prices however are starting to really increase, just like the Inspired by Gibson Epiphones have. People forget how long Fender has been making guitars in Mexico and most of those people doing the real work have been there for a long time. Experience matters. Fender and Gibson have plenty of inexperienced people building their US stuff. Time to get over where guitars are made and just play the stupid thing.
@@bks252 Thanks for the input, good to hear that the Players are good. The Squiers have gotten better but it looks like the MIMs are a better choice, better pots and pups for one. I agree that USA quality can be spotty as well, that's why I like hands on at the guitar store. I've seen 3K LPs with issues on sale as new, and Gibson has a demo shop on Reverb for their B stock stuff. My point is that if I can get a good deal on a nice Player I'd go with it, but with some Plusses pushing a thousand bucks and more I would look at a 1799 Pro II. I'll compare them all anyway.
@@GlennJimenez The SE Silver Skys are great but I think they're a little over priced because they are a signature model and JM gets a cut.
You are spot on Phill. The PRS is that beautiful girl you were afraid to ask out. I got up the nerve and asked. It has been a great relationship. I must have the best one because I don't think I need another one. I was always careful when playing it...careful not to scratch it or dent it. But when I did it has never played or sounded better. I enjoy it now more than ever.
Hi Phil - You made a lot of great points here. PRS is definitely a premium brand which is why every level they have is amazing in it’s own right. And bumping the S2’s is a great move. No surprise because young Mr. Smith is outstanding in his field.
So how do you rate PRS CE’s?
For new PRS SE models, man, I'm just hoping to see a version of the Singlecut McCarty 594 with a tremolo system like some kind of floyd rose or their proprietary one. One that's NOT the Tremonti model. I also hope they choose tobacco sunburst like the DGT model for the Singlecut, because I much prefer that over their vintage sunburst. Fingers crossed for a Singlecut McCarty SE with a trem system, preferably in tobacco sunburst.
I'm getting ready to do some Rush covers and want just one LP body with a trem system in my lineup and thought about getting Epiphone's Alex Lifeson model but 1,300?! That wouldn't be so bad bad if I hadn't heard that it feels like a toy and has a high potential for QC issues, pickups aren't the greatest, not to mention made in China. I thought the whole point of opting for Chinese manufacturing was to be a cost saving measure, but 1,300?! They're going the way of Apple charging what they think people are willing to pay. Can't forget that Epiphone had a model for 800 of the same guitar a year or two prior that had more features than the 1,300 dollar one like the ghost piezo floyd rose, so I could care less about Epiphone and their current pricing right now. I considered an Xaverie 555 and trying out a few of their GFS pickups to get the sound I want. 300-500 bucks is about the most I'd spend on a Chinese guitar anyways, I'm just concerned about overall quality and sound at that price. There's a Sawtooth Americana Vudu with '59 Seymour Duncans and a Floyd FRX for about a 1000 that's assembled and set up in their California warehouse. I'm considering that one but I'd REALLY rather go with a PRS if I have the choice. Maybe I'll wait until June to see what the SE line has in store...
The copy of the SE McCarty 594 single cut black gold I got on sale is beautiful, has great pups and pots and has great sustain and note bending. And it's pretty heavy like a traditional LP. Gotta listen to some Rush to see what their trem thing is all about.
My immediate reaction was the economic conditions. People are out of money. This would mean layoffs or downsizing the us operation and driving sales to the SE line. They added value to S2 to push sales there. Affirming that it is a REAL US product by removing the big S2 badge etc. Now it is not a ”different” line - it is different US PRS.
If I had it to do over again I'd buy a PRS Custom 24 SE and buy the PRS locking tuner separately rather than the S2 24-08 that I did. I have an old PRS SE Custom 24 from the first year that doesn't even have the birds with the added PRS locking tuners. It's plain Jane looking but is a very good guitar to play. I've found I never use the 08 coil split feature. The S2 is much prettier but I can't tell that it's any better than my ancient SE 24. In fact the old one stays in turn better. No clue why.
Prs 10th anniversary custom 24 or a Tele american standard ?
I have 2 SEs (C24 DGT) just bought an Anniversary S2 594, and own 07 Core Mira. I have also owned 3 Core guitars. My SEs with a few well placed mods place just as good as my S2 and my Core guitars BUT they do not come close to the level of fit and finish quality the a USA made PRS gives you. That materials, electronics, and finish quality offers a pride of ownership the SEs don't give but as far as playability and durability the SE guitars are fantastic.
Different price points for different customers willingness to pay. Core = Custom Shop, S2 = USA std, and SE = Epiphone. All very similar. We’re seeing expensive Epiphone with USA pickups so that’s probably next step - SE specials at 1.5k with US pickups?
I think most people who play gigs in the US want to be seen with US made guitars on stage. But if you like and are used to a PRS you don’t want to risk a $3k+ guitar getting abused on $100 gig.
SE for the practice room, S2 for the local gigs, Core for the headliner shows.
That said, I’d play my Vela anywhere.
I own a 408 core, S2 single cut semi hollow ,SE DGT and a SE CE 24 satin. You will never hear" My core or my S2 are so much better than my SE models " come out of my mouth. I guess the big question is. Is it ok to like the SE as much a core or S2 model LOL!
A couple weeks ago I played a gig and a guy walked up to my and called my PRS CE 24 a "cop guitar." Funniest thing I've heard all year.
Phil.. I strongly disagree with your arguement, S2 is a significant jump in quality vs SE.... Made in America is a significant contributor but the fret work and wood construction is significantly better on S2. PRS US fret work is excellent, that is worth $100s alone. S2 bodies are one piece and generally finish is much higher quality vs SE poly finish and multi piece wood construction. SE is fantastic for the price point but PRS has a solid value prop for S2 as well.....
Private stock is the way IMO. Huge diff bw private stock to core to se.
Your show is badass
I don't think anyone on god's green earth believes plastic tuning keys is an upgrade. But the prestige is absolutely the reason.
You just did the Framus "review" and being made in Germany was a pretty big feature for you. And I'm not disagreeing with that assessment. And I also don't think a guitar built in a foreign factory is a PRS. Just like an Epiphone isn't a Gibson.
Indonesian 'rosewood'... take a good look at it, pretty sure if you used that wood in a guitar that was assembled in the good ol USA would classify that wood as 'Indian Laurel'. At least Squier is being honest about it.
Resale = Better. A PRS is necessary when you can’t take your Strat, Tele & Les Paul with you. The SE is the workhouse compromise.
I expect PRS will take Core models significantly/shockingly higher in price and move S2 to the position of current Core models. Core is their aspirational model and other than being an icon they don't really need the Core sales/profits; but they desperately need the perception of those guitars. Perception is enhanced by fewer buyers capable of wearing them. The S2 becomes their working premium level and the SEs range from good value to working levels.
The difference between SE and S2 (before the upgrade) wasn't just labour cost. Doesn't S2 come with one piece body like the core (unlike the SEs who have multiple pieces) ?
Also, there is a miscommunication about finish. Polyurethane on a quality american instrument feels much better than the thick polyurethane used on imported guitars that makes the guitar feel more plastic. Polyurethane gets a bad name cause import guitars use it a lot, but a skilled worker applying poly on a guitar is a highly skilled process.
Greetings from Greece 🇬🇷
se would probably be better with solid, musted finishes rather than the bright clown colors, and fake "flame" maple.
No clown on my black gold se McCarty :)
My SE Custom 24 is plain Pearl White, matching headstock, rosewood fingerboard and white birds. Plain and beautiful.
@@Davey-Boyd Beautiful, didn't know PRS did the LTD edition.
Do people play em or just talk about em...sounds so serious
Core is like fender custom shop and S2 is now like American made fenders. SE superior to fender Mexican and surely the Squier line
Long story short, bought an SE Silver Sky tone pot broke first day! PRS made a great guitar with crap parts! I'll pass on PRS!!!!
Phil, I think you have absolutely nailed it.
American guitars are the best. Love from Hungary.
I don’t like all the fancy aspects of the cores they don’t look cool to me at all kinda feminine. I’m not a big fan of the standard birds they look kinda ridiculous and anti-rock and roll I prefer the half moons. I love the build quality but the prices on the cores keep me from even considering one. I did buy a PRS DW Hartail as it has a macho sinister look to it but the rest are just to “pretty”
It really comes down to what do you have in the way of cash that you can afford to pay. If a $1000 is a lot of money to spend on a guitar for you you're getting a $1000 worth of guitar in SE. If you've got $2500 to spend but that's your absolute max and you don't want to p*** it away on a guitar that's gonna have lots of problems like the other 2 big manufacturers who will remain Gibson and fender forever...... s2 is king. After that you're talking about a group of people that are fortunate enough to be able to afford just about anything they want when they want it and A core is definitely bragging rights for a lack of a better way to put it. Honda makes a nice roadster but it's not a Harley. Lincoln makes a nice comfortable car but it's not a Mercedes. There really is nothing like a core
No such thing as vintage plastic...
No such thing as vintage plastic.
Headstock designs and logos are the only thing keeping american factories open, minus a few customs
Great subject and video content! As the US dollar plummets over continuous gov't spending (roughly about 1 trillion every 90 days) causing the cost to sky rocket more tax payers need to tighten the belt. There's far more investment over seas as the labor. material, craftmanship, and quality, and over all continues improvement drives more customers to the offshore model. Whether by design of global interest or simply bad policy's the US investment declines as global invest climbs.
S2=Solution Searching (for a non-existent problem). The SE gives you 90% of the playability and soundquality of an S2 for less than 1/2 the price of an S2; and about 85% of those qualities for 1/7 the price of a Core. Despite fanboy logic, there's nothing magic about CNC machines in America as opposed to Indonesia. Men buy Cores for the same reason women buy Hermes bags - bragging rights & schadenfreude, not performance improvement.
“There nothing magic about CNC machines in America as opposed to Indonesia”
100% true. Assuming the machines are well maintained, and they likely are since industrial environments like this are heavily scrutinized, this is true.
It’s not about cnc machines, it’s the quality of the raw materials used to make them. The woods and Pot metal hardware and plastic finish on the guitar are 90% of the instrument. The S-2 is a USA budget model of there flagship, and is made with many pieces of wood.
@@anotherstart1multi piece bodies are purely aesthetic, nothing more
SE are NOWHERE near 85% that of a core 🤣🤣🤣
I have S2 and SE. I bought them both used. I’m not a gear snob, I don’t care where they’re made. The SE is good value but the S2 is a much better guitar.
On average the world is rather poor compared to Americans. Could be a reason cheap stuff is more popular regardless of quality.
I would say a lot of the world is better off than US citizens are. A rich country does not equate to rich citizens per se.
s2 are ugly, core are overpriced, none are all that much worth it.
To each their own taste ... enjoy your Sears Silvertone...
For some reason they keep selling. Logic says that means you’re simply wrong
And SE’s are generic guitars with the Prs logo and shape, built in the same factory that manufactures for a few other brands. Good guitars yes, but it is what it is
@@elenbrandt290 I own one, and played many more.
@@elenbrandt290😂😂😂
This guy never has anything positive to say.