The Epiphone Kirk Hammett V is $1,300. The Gibson equivalent is $15,000. That's some crazy shit. I mean, this is exactly what he's talking about. They make you want the unattainable guitar so badly that you'll pay the higher price for the import. It's crazy to pay that much for the Epi, but what's even crazier to me is that there are people who will pay for the Gibson version. There's no way the Gibson version is more than 10 times better than the Epi - and at this point, I'm not convinced that the Gibson version is really better in any meaningful way at all
Enjoyed your thoughts on this. As a player who has owned all the big name brands, I have to say I’m over it. I believe there is way too much emphasis placed on these brand names and way too little placed on actually playing guitar. Get an instrument that inspires you and play the crap out of it. A name on your headstock does not make a player good. I get it that guitars are fun to collect and we are all at different levels in our journey, but these companies are manipulating people through marketing to care more about a logo than actually using the instrument for what it is intended for. Kiesel is the best bang for your buck. They look, feel, play great and stay in tune. I’ve owned two Gibson custom shops and they were huge disappointments. Would not stay in tune, even after two trips back to the custom shop in Nashville. My Epiphone from 1997 never goes out of tune and in my opinion is just a more reliable guitar for playing live. I mostly just buy used these days and save a bunch of money. That way I’m not worried about getting dings in my new $4500 guitar at a gig. All the best to you Phil.
@@mattschwartzstein3159 The used market is the only place I would look for a nicer Epiphone but don't be surprised if these 'overpriced' models hold some value
@@dannyturner7967 SWEET 🧁 Used is the best way most of the time. I do my own setups n feet work and once I got good at it was able to buy pretty much anything not warped or battered and get it playing great.
I don't give a damn about the rationalization for these prices. These prices are ludicrous and the product is not worth it. Period. What I see coming from these companies is...contempt.
Can you blame tham? If people are stupid enough to pay, why WOULDN'T they charge more? The problem I see with this community in this regard is that (almost) EVERYONE dreams of a Fender or a Gibson as their grail. I don't really understand it because I look at things and say "I NEVER want to own a Fender or Gibson because I don't like throwing my money away!". Of course, I DO have a grail guitar but's it's not a Fender or Gibson (or the new "geniuses" who want an overpriced PRS). My grail guitar is a Godin Montreal Premiere LTD in Desert Blue with a Bigsby. Look up some images of that and you'll immediately understand why its my grail. It is as much an elegant work of art as it is an incredible guitar. It costs around $2200-$2500CAD. That's what a grail guitar SHOULD cost most people because that's a realistic grail.
I bought one of the now discontinued Gibson tributes for $1200 and it's a fantastic guitar. No way I'm paying over that for a Chinese Epi. The Age of affordable USA guitars and cheap imports is over, and not surprisingly this is coinciding with the general decline of the West.
The comparison isn't really a budget Gibson these 'overpriced' Epi models are still a small fraction of what Gibson charges for similar models. I get what you are saying but what people are really mad about is Epi offering premium models. I say get over it Epi is a solid brand and if they can sell $1500 guitars good for them
@@I.am_Groot I agree that I don't blame Epiphone for charging whatever some idiot's willing to pay but I would also say that if I had $1500USD to blow on a guitar, it wouldn't be on an Epiphone, it would be on a Godin or Fender. I would rather have an actual Godin or actual Fender instead of a poor-man's Gibson at the same price point. As "solid" a brand as Epiphone is, it's not on the level of Fender or Godin and if I'm spending that kind of money, I'm buying the ABSOLUTE BEST guitar I can get and I can guarantee you that the best guitar at that price point DOES NOT say "Epiphone" on the headstock. To be perfectly honest, I think that the best guitar in the price range would be a Godin. Even worse, an Epiphone Casino costs $3500 at Guitar Center. There is no way in hell that I'm laying down $3500 for a guitar that says "Poor Man's Gibson" on the headstock.
While I agree with you I feel like sometimes most companies would RATHER go under than bring their prices down. We'll see how that works with guitar companies.
Typical corporate move. Gibson saw Epiphone quality is up because of tech, but the prices were still affordable thanks to tech. Gibson saw it eating into their sales, so instead of making Gibsons more affordable, they raised Epiphone prices. More profit, but likely less sales.
I doubt if they were eating into their sales. Those who are seriously shopping for Gibson are not shopping for Epiphone. It is a money grab, so I’m on the same page as you. It’s as Phil stated. They are trying to get the bigger money with the Gibson shoppers and tease the others with an identical lEpiphone. Then they raise the price to where it is at the threshold of ludicrous, yet people will still hold their noses and buy it. Like any other company, they have a staff of bean counters who know the market and are very good at forecasting what working people will pay to get what they want. And it does work, dumb as it may sound.
But they don't cost more... The Epiphone LP Standard 50s/60s has listed at $700 since they were released in 2020, and can often be snagged for less through various sales. An LP Classic can be had starting at $500 MSRP. The expensive ($1k+) models are all limited edition/signature models or special finishes. They're *additions* to the top end of the offered product range, not price increases of their standard models. Just... don't buy those. Gibson is doing the same damn thing with their US-made range. A "regular" Gibbo LP Standard is like $3k. Roll into the Custom Shop/Murphy Lab, or (heaven forbid) Aged Reissue lines and you're looking at $7k to *$20k*. For a factory built assembly-line guitar with some fairy dust sprinkled on it. And like Phil said, you're gonna wait 2 years for it, because they're selling every single one they make. Why would they stop??
This old notion that if it’s only made in the US it is so much better. It’ simply not true. Evaluate the instrument, know your shit, shop around and pay accordingly.
@@Yostopactinjive A Fender Player-Series Stratocaster costs $700 at Guitar Center while an Epiphone Casino costs $3500. So, you're right, it's FIVE TIMES THE PRICE and no Epiphone should cost more than a Fender or a Godin.
Rather have an Eastman than a modern Gibson...My LP Custom is a Burny and is built every bit as good as Gibson...Burny,Tokai& Eastman are right up there...
The best way to force prices down is to make sure the manufacturer discovers that the public will refuse to buy the product until the price is appropriate.
the problem is that people don’t refuse it in real life, everyone complains about the prices but at the same time people keep buying them at whatever price they sell them for because it says adam jones, kirk hammett, dave mustaine… you name it. And not just with epiphone, LTDs and schecters used to be dirt cheap too
Absolutely, that's ridiculous pricing, but get this, I'm a lefty and a Epiphone USA Casino hollowbody electric guitar sells for $3499.00, it cost more than a "Gibson Les Paul standard".
00:55 Love the Cartman (South Park) impression with the echo. 🤣 I was kicking around buying a $1500 Epiphone Bonamassa SG. I ultimately went with a Gibson SG Maestro, my first Gibson...cherry is officially popped now. It was that psychological price threshold on the Epiphone that took me to that "might as well get a Gibson" decision point. Maybe Gibson and Epiphone are rigging prices that way. Many people will look at that $2500 price tag on the Gibson and think the Epiphone is a bargain.
I thought that the point of Epiphone was for people who couldn't afford a Gibson? It seems that they are just going to price themselves out of the market? Greedy bastards!
You can still get an Epiphone Les Paul Standard for $699. That's about $100 more than it was 10 years ago and in-line with the crazy inflation we're feeling on all goods... These $900-$1500 Epiphones ARE NOT the cheap junk at the bottom, they usually have USA Switchcraft parts, CTS pots, USA capacitors, Gibson USA pickups. In other words, you're getting the soul of a USA Gibson in a Les Paul body for about 50-75% off the price of a USA built Gibson... Under JC's leadership he elevated the Epiphone brand to put it toe to toe with what Fender is building in Mexico, and I would say the entire Inspired By Gibson lineup has been a huge success and these guitars are great alternatives..The value of the US dollar goes down a little each year, it is what it is.
Agree with everything except the "soul" (yep, I had to be, that, guy) of a Gibson. Having been down (and still on) the 'put USA parts in/on your Epiphones and making them equal to Gibsons is not the case. I've tried and tried and tried with different Epiphones. They're still fun for kicking around with and having a halfway decent sounding and good playing (after some more work) guitars.
What are you talking about? Look at the specs on the Epiphone 59 ($999) for example, solid Mahagony body, solid AAA maple cap... No one knows what fretwire Gibson or Epiphone use, they are non stainless steel frets either way. They will wear over time and you'll need a refret. The fretboards are Indian Laurel on the Epiphones, you get real inlays, you get a Nitro finish (one of the most expensive things here), and you get more bench time by Gibson to dress the frets and other attention to detail... But the bench time you can pay a tech to do with a setup and fret dressing and truthfully you need to do this with a new Gibson as well. So, generally strongly disagree.
This is the reality. I buy and sell hundreds of guitars a year. I got a gibson les paul studio smokehouse burst 2023 for 800 local. Mint. I got an epiphone amos for 700 dollars local. I sold the epiphone for 1100 and the gibson for 800. My advice. Buy as many gibsons as you can. They are average over half off used. This is the absolutely best time to buy gibson guitars. For whatever reason people are flocking to epiphone but the margin makes no sense. Search you local markets and buy every gibson you can. This whole crazy pricing will absolutely change one day
I paid $475 for a 2014 Fender Standard Strat, with case, that was unused and had been in controlled storage. There isnt too many that sound or play, or look, as nice as this one. I was totally surprised.
It won’t work in the long run for Epiphone as long as brands like PRS SE, Schecter, Ltd, etc keep offering Korean made guitars at prices around $1000 which are superior in every way.
Agile makes a pretty good Les Paul too, also MIK. Korean guitars and aftermarket parts are generally decent and well-priced. Indonesia produces some good guitars too but I think they also have some really low end stuff. My Squire VM and Faith acoustic were made in Indonesia, both excellent. The Faith is fantastic.
Comparing $1000 in 2024 to $125 in 1970 suggests a big difference in purchasing power. In 1970, $125 could buy a playable guitar, but with advancements in manufacturing, $1000 in 2024 can likely buy a much higher-quality guitar
It's my understanding it's much cheaper to make quality guitars today. So there should be a cost savings passed on, which the cheaper Amazon brands do.
You're comparing 1970 apples to 2024 oranges. They don't compare in quality of build, manufacturing costs, or as the other guy said, the power of the consumer dollar in spending.
The new Epiphones have skyrocketed in price like new trucks and cars, and also like new trucks and cars, as soon as you bring it home it already depreciated by the hour whereas you can't sell it for what you bought it for. Only what may be future "collectibles " might be worth more than what you paid.
Yeah, Gibson/epiphone are becoming the Harley Davidson of the guitar world. They used to be iconic, run mostly off their old reputation with horrible QC issues, and almost everyone who plays them are old retired people with money that dont really play THAT much.
Most Indonesia (Cort/Cortek made) guitars I've tried have been very impressive. The guitars they make for Ibanez, PRS, and Schecter are usually very well appointed and are ready to gig out of the box. The Cort brand guitars are usually less expensive because there's no middleman brand, and they offer the same great quality. I highly recommend the Cort X700, G300, and KX700. For Les Paul style guitars, Vintage & PRS SE have some great options.
The value of wood is purely based on tradition. If martin and gibson had used indian laurel back in the day, guitarists would want that instead of brazilian rosewood
I bought a Gibson LP studio new in 2005 for $1000, with a hard case! Hard to want to buy any new guitar at the current prices, so guess it’s time to finally learn to play 😂
@@patrickmcpartland1398 not for a brand new one like what I paid! I was comparing how the Epiphone prices are very high now compared to what base model Gibsons used to be. The world has gone crazy!
That's the reason I started building my own guitars. I've made around 50 over the last 13 (or so) years. some were duds but most turned out good, some turned out very good. The point I wanted to make(and prove to myself) is that you can make your own three thousand dollar guitars for a lot less than three grand. And have a lot of fun doing it.
I just pimped out two glarrys and a squire and they play so nice. Its a lot of work to get everything just right and it usually cost about $400 but they play like a dream
It’s beyond the industry. Why are prices so high?because your dollar isn’t worth shit. Look what it buys at the super mkt or gas station. It’s inflation!
That's the truth! That's what it all comes down to. The value of the dollar has been rapidly decreasing and they just keep on printing more. Thanks Obama and your brother Biden.
Companies like D'Angelico have been charging 2k for import guitars for years. Many of these Epis have Gibson pickups and hard cases which cost money. I recently bought an Alex Lifeson Ruby Red and it's well worth the money.
In Tokyo the prices have also gone up… and I thought it was just the currency exchange. Searching for a nice Japanese brand instead… but in general everything has gone up.
Yeah, I haven't really bought guitars in like 6 years and it's gotten crazy. Even the Japanese brands that I used to go for for the "secret deals" aren't nearly as cheap as they used to be. That said, unless things have changed radically since after covid, Edwards and Navigator make nice new production Gibson patterned guitars. They're part of ESP, made in Japan, and even have the right headstock shape because they're for domestic market only. I have a 3 humbucker black beauty LP custom from Edwards from like 10 years ago and it's great. Edwards is lower end than Navigator (It's kinda like highest end Epiphone vs Gibson) but still pretty nice. Edwards I'd say is comparable to high end Epiphone and ESP's LTD EC-1000 line, and it looks like you can get them used for the old Epiphone prices sometimes judging from Ebay and Reverb right now. I'd imagine that if you're in Tokyo you can get them for even better in local stores or whatever. The lowest end of ESP's brand of domestic only Gibson-style guitars is Grassroots, but those aren't made in Japan. If you go used with the older Japanese lawsuit era brands for Gibson-style guitars like Greco, Tokai, Fernandes, Burny, etc., you have even more options and they can be nice if you buy the higher end ones of that era (i.e. the ones that aren't bolt-on necks, have fret nibs, etc.). Though with their age they're more likely to be beat up or have issues with wiring or whatever else you tend to run into with old used guitars. Biggest issue with those brands is that they have new production instruments that are made in China, so you'll have to do research to tell if it's MIJ or MIC. Easiest way for me to tell though is that if it's a LP Custom style and it has the Gibson split diamond inlay. You see that and it's a pretty sure bet that it's old enough to have been made in Japan, lol Got an early 80's Greco Peter Frampton style LP Custom that has the right headstock shape and even the split diamond logo and fret nibs. That one I got at old Epiphone prices at $600-ish iirc, but that was also pre-covid. Anyways, sorry for the long-winded comment. Hope you find something good.
Keisel has a sweet niche. Where else can you get a FULLY custom guitar, with your choice/combination of style, wood,finish, color, hardware, pickups, etc? I bought a fully custom chambered guitar with MIDI for more than half of any of the other brands "Custom" shop. 15 years down the road, it still plays great.
Important point to understand: guitar dealers aren't concerned with whether you buy the top dollar guitar or the less expensive guitar. They want to sell the guitar with the best profit margin. And that might be the most expensive or it might be the cheapest guitar. And even MORE important, they want to sell as many as possible in a given period of time. Imagine if you asked someone how much money they make and they said (like in Rainman) "a hundred dollars". That could be a lot or almost nothing, depending on the period of time it takes to make that amount...one minute, one hour, a day, a week...as well as the background econony, i.e. how much $100 will purchase. So the prices being listed...there might be a huge markup, but the retailer has to balance that with the consideration of how many of these units will sell in a month, or a year...a profit margin of $1000 a unit is meaningless if you don't sell any! :-). Anyway, my 2¢...thought provoking episode, as usual. Cheers
I have a client for whom I made a total custom guitar almost 25years ago. The client had bought an early Dean V back in the mid-80s and it was the first one I'd ever had the opportunity to examine. I told the client it was spectacular, and way superior to a similar Gibson. I had also gotten my hands on one of the first Fender Japan 62 Reissue Strats and told the same client to buy one ASAP, because they were (are) THAT close. The same thing with the first Epiphone 335 DOTs. See a pattern? PS the client is VERY happy they listened to me.
Much smaller companies do import lines too. Eg Dingwall and Ormsby. They will never have the power to dominate the market, and their imports aren't cheap. However it does provide an entry level to their products.
I kinda wonder if this has been an intentional move by Gibson to push perception of the true Les Paul up to PRS Singlecut levels. IMO Gibson has relied solely on their name for too long and the PRS is inarguably a higher-quality instrument.
Phillip, thanks for filling this video with such wisdom. Oh wait, that's what you do with all of your videos! PS) I just realized that I only own USA made guitars (1977 Guild D40C; 1970s (?) Spector NS-2A bass (non-stock, employee-made?); 1989 G&L Skyhawk Signature; 1994 C.P. Thornton custom *trat (that I bought directly from Chuck). I'm a terrible guitarist, yet terribly lucky to own such truly fine instruments.
Whenever I read comments from people bashing on Epiphone's prices versus American made guitars, I chuckle a little. For us players outside the USA most guitars are import guitars, in some cases they can all be pricey. Sometimes a USA-made guitar can be out of reach for most players, but luckily nowadays there's plenty of quality instruments at more affordable prices. Case in point, Epiphone. They're pretty good instruments, sure they're getting more expensive, but they're still more obtainable for a lot of players and that's cool. I think everyone deserves a shot at enjoying a good instrument.
You make a lot of sense, Phillip. One thing you didn't mention is buying import guitars, perhaps on the used market, and upgrading them if you, as a player need to make specific improvements. This is where secondary sellers like the Stratosphere on eBay make their money. I know it's a different issue, but I'm thinking about guitars like the Epiphone Casino (and Casino Coupe) which aren't available as U.S. made (Gibson) models. Maybe you have thoughts on that too?
I went to Guitar Center last week and there are still a boatload of Epis priced in the $400-800 range. The ones everyone's up in arms about are almost all signature models (Grohl, Hammet, etc). Basically if you don't need a famous person's name on your guitar, you can still get plenty of Epiphones at the prices we're more accustomed to. For example, they had a number of gorgeous flametop 335s for $700. Functionally the same thing as the Grohl model. This is overblown.
Are you aware that Epiphone is using real mother of pearl inlays, Gibson burst bucker USA pickups, and Grover roto matic tuners on most of the higher end Gibson inspired guitars? I don't think you could buy the Gibson pickups and Grover tuners for $300. Just my two cents.
I bought one of Epiphone's new Korina Flying Vs at just over £1000 UK and I think it is worth it, great guitar. However I am looking at the new Epiphone Firebird V at £1700 UK and thinking that's way too much given the relative cheapness of Chinese manufacture.
Like many have said, the buyer sets the market. If sales for Epiphones drop by significant margins quarter over quarter, the prices will come down. Look at the PRS SE Silver sky. They were 850 when they first came out, but you can find the new all day long for 630+.
my 15 year old epi 295 hollow body gold top plays and sounds great ! my family got it for my 50th birthday. It is made in Korea with p90's they paid 700.00 brand new. it's discontinued now .Came w/bigsby tremelo bar
@@DougHinVA- Yes, and "Bubble"- as has preceded disastrous COLLAPSE, in several speculation - collapse events in the "boom and bust" cycle of industries, in the last couple hundred years. - To get Academic about this "Tulip" reference , Couple hundred years ago, (when New York was called "New Amsterdam"), the Dutch had huge fortunes via their shipping of spices, silk, porcelain, etc. from the Orient, THE RICH had fortunes to spend, on Amsterdam homes, paintings, and ( to this day) flowers. Tulips, being early and hardy, brought high, then insanely high, prices. For uniquely colored, early tulips, ONE BULB could sell for the price of a modest home, on land, in the outskirts of Amsterdam. Like all "bubbles", after a couple decades, the frenzy wore- off, and tulip priced dropped, speculators lost their asses... - If the "guitar bubble" runs outta buyers, the $150 Fender Squire will return...
Squier just had a more reasonable price adjustment recently. But Fender already has multi tiered price/equipment levels ... 2 or more Asian, 2 Mexican and several USA levels. Once again, at least in marketing, Fender has been way ahead of Gibson for years.
I paid 700 bucks for a hand made les paul style guitar, made right here in knoxville TN where im from and it shits on anything epiphone makes. Even came with a case. Gregory Glandon guitars for anyone curious. All under 1000 bucks. Pretty sure mine has a real nitro finish if im not mistaken.
The Firebird, the V and the Explorer all makes sense in the 2023 line.. it's the same wood, and the same cuts (I believe) especially for the Korina series, that I think they ended this year. It was a partnership with the Gibby Custom Shop, nice silkscreen badge under the clear coat so China can't fake it, well, not without some major effort. The more Gibby parts and wood the Epi uses the closer the price will be, the bean counters will make sure of that.
If you want a reasonably priced guitar built in SE Asia, consider a Squier. I bought a Squier Baritone the middle of last year. The build quality is really quite nice as is the playability.
Squiers haven’t been worth anything since about 2005. Throwing a ton of lacquer on a chunk of green wood hardly makes a great guitar. None of them stay in tune or intonate. Same with modern Fenders.
I never said it was a great guitar.@@zerosoma33 I said reasonably priced. I have done only minor set up work to it. I play it regularly. I have had zero problems with its stability. And as much as I would like a Reverend Baritone, I couldn't justify spending +/- $1,000 more. For a no longer professional, home studio player, it meets my needs. Safe travels.
When i first lived outside Nashville in 2004 Gibson had a store at the Opry Mills mall. I went in there one time and saw they had Epiphone guitars for the price of 1,000 and maybe a little more. I asked a salesman about it and said Guitar Center in the same city had them for $500.00. He said they include setups and etc. i guess they wanted people to feel like they would be taken good care of if they bought from the factory. Sometimes famous Japanese builders at Epiphone made guitars that were that expensive.
A Squier Classic Vibe 60s that is a reissue of a 60s Strat except for a Laurel fingerboard is $429 vs Epiphone 1959 Les Paul reissue with Laurel fingerboard is $1299 (nearly quadruple the price).
Everything has gone up in price over the last few years. Cars, houses, groceries, energy, restaurants etc.. of course the guitar makers are following suit. That bring said, I bought myself an Epi '59 Les Paul last Christmas. $749 with Gibson burstbucker pickups, Cts pots, Switchcraft toggle and input, Mallory capacitors, 50's style braided wiring and a Epi hardcase. The guitar looks, plays and sounds fantastic, and was surprisingly well set up/intonated right out of the box. It was an excellent value for my money considering the Gibson equivalent is $6700, almost 9 times more than the Epi. The exorbitant "Made in America" price gouging and snobbery is what people should really be complaining about in my opinion.
I remember back when Jeff Kiesel started doing Q&As, someone asked why they stopped making the Carvin Cobalt acoustic guitars. And he said, plain and simple, they couldn't keep the quality up to their expectations. The world is a little smaller these days, to where I'm sure they could have more qualified eyes on the product. They could do the SE thing where someone in the US takes a quick look at every guitar to make sure it isn't complete trash. But the room for error is pretty high. Kiesel have rolled with inflation pretty aggressively. I bought a mostly barebones Carvin DC in 1998 for $729. Building a similar one today would be right at $2k. I would hope that they're not losing money at those rates. Maybe not printing money, but I never thought that was the aim.
The Epiphone Frontier from the USA collection commands a whopping price tag of $3,999.00, five times the price of the Chinese-made Masterbilt Frontier at $799.00. Like the Casino, there are several key differences between these two to justify the vast gulf in pricing. The Made in USA Frontier is made in Bozeman, Montana, in tribute to the original Epiphone Frontier made from 1958 to 1970. The guitar has high-end materials to suit its high price tag, including a solid Sitka spruce top and solid figured maple back and sides, Indian rosewood fretboard, traditional hand-scalloped X-bracing, and gold-plated Gotoh Keystone tuners. The Epiphone equivalent, impressively, features similar construction, including the same materials for the guitar’s top, back, and sides. Even the “lariat-and-cactus” pickguard, as seen in the image above, is common to both instruments. The primary difference in the guitar’s construction is it’s bracing, as the Chinese-made Frontier lacks the hand-scalloped X-bracing of its American cousin. The Masterbilt Frontier also uses Indian laurel, rather than rosewood, for its fretboard material, which has lighter color.
If the only reason for the cost of these is insane markup and it becomes the norm then someone else will swoop in to fill the gap. For me, there's marginal additional cachet to have Epi on the headstock. Certainly not $1k worth.
My 4 Epiphones (spanning 30 plus years) in order; Les Paul Special 2 (first electric kept in classroom so I could sneak in some practice time), Wilshire Pro (incredible sound horrible quality), Wild Kat Royal (great guitar at any price), and Slash Epiphone Les Paul Special 2 (cuz, well, it's Slash!) To me that's what Epiphone is (was); a mix of their own unique classics and affordable copies.
Never been 'an Epiphone guy,' but their recent offerings are pretty nice guitars. Everything costs more these days, simple fact. That said, if you're patient and open your options up, you can find nice guitars for decent prices. Just bought a Godin Stadium HT (Tele style) guitar--made in Canada, very nice gig bag, brand new for $650 shipped from Pro Audio Star. Now it's back up to $1100. So you just have to be patient and pick your spots.
First plus $1K China guitars I saw were the Jacksons late last year because I was jonesing for a V. Slept on it for a few weeks, grabbed a used Carvin V at equal or lesser price.
I watched a video a few months ago about the Epiphone prices going up. It’s because Gibson will no longer be making guitars in that price range anymore , cheap Gibsons will now start at around 3 to 4 grand and anything below that will be a Epiphone and Epiphone will get to use the Gibson HS.
I recently worked on a newer Squier, and was very impressed with the neck and the fretwork. The craftsmanship is much improved over the older stuff. Hardware and electronics are still sub-par, but still quite impressed overall. The other thing I wonder about , is that these price increases might help the many small/one-person builders out quite a bit. They might actually be able to charge what they're worth.
Fretwork is always a crapshoot with budget guitars. My Squire Vintage Modified came with perfectly level frets and smooth fret ends. Much less work for me. The Duncan designed pickups aren't bad either. In fact the only parts I swapped out were the block and the ugly white pickguard with a pearloid. I paid $299 for that guitar 3-4 years ago. The VM's have since been discontinued, but I see the Classic Vibes are up to $450 now.
I just bought a Squier body and neck for a Classic Vibe 70's Jass bass that I'm putting together and the quality over even a few years ago is significantly improved.
ESP are doing the same price gouging; LTD George Lynch Desert Eagle = $1,699... made in Indonesia and comes with a cheap Korean Floyd Rose 1000. Ridiculous.
I picked up the epiphone greeny and for the price I payed the fretwork is scratchy and needed work. I also picked up an Ibanez rg550 and the fretwork is beautiful so smooth and silky, a pleasure to play for half the price of the greeny, I own several Epiphones and some high end Gibsons, but I’m done they need to improve quality if their charging more, they will get no more money from me for premium priced substandard workmanship.
The epis in my local shops are wayyyyy nice then all then a lot of the other stuff on the walls. Especially the fenders. I love fender but damn they are all junk these days.
I have 3 Epiphone Les Pauls, all are beautiful, one is a 2005 Standard, one a 2010 Slash and one a 2021 1959. None of them I would swap for a Gibson. But I did play a £600 Epiphone Les Paul in a shop recently and it was horrible, I think I was lucky with mine.
Capitalism baby. Cheap wages, damn the consequences. Fetish for the brandname and "handmade in USA" tag can only go so far. Wages in China have thankfully grown over the past decades. The fact that US labor is so overpriced and uncompetitive is a problem to solve, not to escape.
US labor isn't overpriced. You can pay an entire factory of workers great wages, if the CEOs and managers and other useless suits up top took a massive pay cut.
@@ileutur6863 i agree in sentiment, but US workers have a loooot of overhead to pay. Rents, insurance, healthcare costs etc all make them more expensive to employ.
I'm a huge Adam Jones fan. When the Epiphone Adam Jones Les Paul Custom was first released, I bitched and moaned about the $1299 price tag. Then I bought one.....
I have 2 Epis: a '16 LP PlusTop Pro with gorgeous flame, cherry burst. A 2023 IG 335, cherry. Both guitars are absolutely outstanding instruments I'd put against a Gibby anytime. Paid $749 for the LP and $699 for the 335. Epis are still in this price range unless you're going after a sig model. The recent quality of Epis has really risen to a whole new level. I'd have to pay $3k more for a Gibby 335 and not get anywhere near the quality bump for the money.
I'm in love with the new Epiphones too but, I won't pay it ....I see it as pure greed ....as a person that owns many many Epiphones it hurts me to see this and say that.😢
Corporate America seems to be in a "grab it while you can" mode. No matter the industry or product, the mantra is to make as much money as possible. They do this by 1) Cutting costs (cheap foreign labor, lesser quality parts/raw materials) and 2) Maximize profit (in other words, charge as much as the market will bear). This is happening everywhere. Automobiles, food, homes and yes, guitars. Not sure there is much the average Joe can do other than buy used or only buy things when truly necessary.
I have a pristine ES-335 I bought new. I immediately installed locking tuners as I did not know better. Have I ruined the value of this bright red beast?
I only buy used and have never paid more than $350 for a guitar. I currently own an Inspired By Gibson Les Paul Standard, SG Standard and Les Paul Special. If someone is patient and keeps an eye on the used market great guitars can be picked up at a fraction of the cost of some of these new Epis. There’s deals out there if someone looks long enough.
I have 8 Epiphones in the arsenal my Bonamassa 335 being the most expensive. With Gibson pups and pots I was shooting for a 335 at a third the cost not so much the high dollar for an Epi. I think most manufacturers want you to buy 10 not just 1 and for years the features vs price metric kept increasing to where you can get a damn fine axe fo 650 or less. I have a Firebird I got for 650, not paying twice that for a cool paint job. Especially since the Iceman is back for 800 or less!
for most even me being Canadian, i don't think that made in USA is the selling point. just good quality control, which yes is also lacking by the workers even in some American fender factories who are more than underpaid. agree 100%. it is much easier to hide bad soldering, and craftmanship in a phone which will almost never be serviced its entire lifespan. sadly, guitar electronics are much bigger lol. easier to see where they cheaped out.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Players need to come to the realization that the only way this stuff will come down in price, is to .... wait for it ...QUIT BUYING IT!!!!
That will never happen because there will always be buyers. We need hard legislation against corporate greed
BINGO
People just need to buy other guitars that are just as good and less expensive. Then Epiphone will be forced to compete on prices.
Voting with your dollars is your only real power in the modern world and people seem to forget about it.
I'm never buying a 1500e Epiphone. Maybe in 20 years if the inflation also made its way to our salaries
I think Epiphone and Gibson can keep their guitars for those prices.
Thanks Phil
They're about the same price, which is bullshit. Gibson is made in the US and should be much more than a guitar made with slave labor in Indonesia.
@@joeking433they aren’t the same price at all though. The equivalent Gibson is 5x+ more.
Keep them? They fly off the shelves. If they didnt sell, they wouldnt cost that much. Just because you won’t pay it don’t mean I wont
A lot of people buy what they want, price be damned, look at how many 600.00 scarfs and 1400.00 handbags Gucci and Luis Vitton sell…
Forget Gibson and Epiphone. Buy EVH and be done with it. EVH guitars are so nice and play so easily with tone to die for, they are a far better value.
Paying more than 800 dollars for a chinese Epiphone is some crazy shit.
Facts
The Epiphone Kirk Hammett V is $1,300. The Gibson equivalent is $15,000. That's some crazy shit. I mean, this is exactly what he's talking about. They make you want the unattainable guitar so badly that you'll pay the higher price for the import. It's crazy to pay that much for the Epi, but what's even crazier to me is that there are people who will pay for the Gibson version. There's no way the Gibson version is more than 10 times better than the Epi - and at this point, I'm not convinced that the Gibson version is really better in any meaningful way at all
Paying more than 400 dollars for a chinese Epiphone is crazy as far as im concerned.
@@edreynolds8721cost is also low because of the tech and low labor cost.
500 max used on CL all day
Enjoyed your thoughts on this. As a player who has owned all the big name brands, I have to say I’m over it. I believe there is way too much emphasis placed on these brand names and way too little placed on actually playing guitar. Get an instrument that inspires you and play the crap out of it. A name on your headstock does not make a player good. I get it that guitars are fun to collect and we are all at different levels in our journey, but these companies are manipulating people through marketing to care more about a logo than actually using the instrument for what it is intended for. Kiesel is the best bang for your buck. They look, feel, play great and stay in tune. I’ve owned two Gibson custom shops and they were huge disappointments. Would not stay in tune, even after two trips back to the custom shop in Nashville. My Epiphone from 1997 never goes out of tune and in my opinion is just a more reliable guitar for playing live. I mostly just buy used these days and save a bunch of money. That way I’m not worried about getting dings in my new $4500 guitar at a gig. All the best to you Phil.
Well said.
I've got a Kiesel in my sights.
Buying used Asian guitars for 500 usd or less doesn't seem to affect my playing in a negative way.
This is the way.
@@mattschwartzstein3159 The used market is the only place I would look for a nicer Epiphone but don't be surprised if these 'overpriced' models hold some value
My early 00s Japanese Jackson is my fav! Also there are a couple 90s Peavey instruments that rip too!
I bought a used epiphone wino jerry cantrell sig. For 480, its only a year old and half price on used mkt
@@dannyturner7967 SWEET 🧁 Used is the best way most of the time. I do my own setups n feet work and once I got good at it was able to buy pretty much anything not warped or battered and get it playing great.
I don't give a damn about the rationalization for these prices. These prices are ludicrous and the product is not worth it. Period. What I see coming from these companies is...contempt.
Can you blame tham? If people are stupid enough to pay, why WOULDN'T they charge more? The problem I see with this community in this regard is that (almost) EVERYONE dreams of a Fender or a Gibson as their grail. I don't really understand it because I look at things and say "I NEVER want to own a Fender or Gibson because I don't like throwing my money away!".
Of course, I DO have a grail guitar but's it's not a Fender or Gibson (or the new "geniuses" who want an overpriced PRS). My grail guitar is a Godin Montreal Premiere LTD in Desert Blue with a Bigsby. Look up some images of that and you'll immediately understand why its my grail. It is as much an elegant work of art as it is an incredible guitar. It costs around $2200-$2500CAD. That's what a grail guitar SHOULD cost most people because that's a realistic grail.
I bought one of the now discontinued Gibson tributes for $1200 and it's a fantastic guitar. No way I'm paying over that for a Chinese Epi. The Age of affordable USA guitars and cheap imports is over, and not surprisingly this is coinciding with the general decline of the West.
The comparison isn't really a budget Gibson these 'overpriced' Epi models are still a small fraction of what Gibson charges for similar models. I get what you are saying but what people are really mad about is Epi offering premium models. I say get over it Epi is a solid brand and if they can sell $1500 guitars good for them
@@I.am_Groot I agree that I don't blame Epiphone for charging whatever some idiot's willing to pay but I would also say that if I had $1500USD to blow on a guitar, it wouldn't be on an Epiphone, it would be on a Godin or Fender. I would rather have an actual Godin or actual Fender instead of a poor-man's Gibson at the same price point.
As "solid" a brand as Epiphone is, it's not on the level of Fender or Godin and if I'm spending that kind of money, I'm buying the ABSOLUTE BEST guitar I can get and I can guarantee you that the best guitar at that price point DOES NOT say "Epiphone" on the headstock. To be perfectly honest, I think that the best guitar in the price range would be a Godin.
Even worse, an Epiphone Casino costs $3500 at Guitar Center. There is no way in hell that I'm laying down $3500 for a guitar that says "Poor Man's Gibson" on the headstock.
Vote with your dollars. It’s the only way to stop them.
While I agree with you I feel like sometimes most companies would RATHER go under than bring their prices down. We'll see how that works with guitar companies.
Dollar is not worth more than pennies anymore due to spending from our current administration in Washington DC.
Typical corporate move. Gibson saw Epiphone quality is up because of tech, but the prices were still affordable thanks to tech. Gibson saw it eating into their sales, so instead of making Gibsons more affordable, they raised Epiphone prices. More profit, but likely less sales.
The only sensible take in a page of comments.
Exactly.
A money grab by any other name...
I doubt if they were eating into their sales. Those who are seriously shopping for Gibson are not shopping for Epiphone. It is a money grab, so I’m on the same page as you. It’s as Phil stated. They are trying to get the bigger money with the Gibson shoppers and tease the others with an identical lEpiphone. Then they raise the price to where it is at the threshold of ludicrous, yet people will still hold their noses and buy it. Like any other company, they have a staff of bean counters who know the market and are very good at forecasting what working people will pay to get what they want. And it does work, dumb as it may sound.
But they don't cost more... The Epiphone LP Standard 50s/60s has listed at $700 since they were released in 2020, and can often be snagged for less through various sales. An LP Classic can be had starting at $500 MSRP. The expensive ($1k+) models are all limited edition/signature models or special finishes. They're *additions* to the top end of the offered product range, not price increases of their standard models. Just... don't buy those.
Gibson is doing the same damn thing with their US-made range. A "regular" Gibbo LP Standard is like $3k. Roll into the Custom Shop/Murphy Lab, or (heaven forbid) Aged Reissue lines and you're looking at $7k to *$20k*. For a factory built assembly-line guitar with some fairy dust sprinkled on it. And like Phil said, you're gonna wait 2 years for it, because they're selling every single one they make. Why would they stop??
This old notion that if it’s only made in the US it is so much better. It’ simply not true.
Evaluate the instrument, know your shit, shop around and pay accordingly.
Epiphone asking twice the price of a Mexican Fender is just ridiculous.
Yep
Guess you haven't looked up Mexican fender prices lately.
@@Yostopactinjive I’d rather pay Mexicans than Chinese, our enemy(CCP)
@@Yostopactinjive A Fender Player-Series Stratocaster costs $700 at Guitar Center while an Epiphone Casino costs $3500. So, you're right, it's FIVE TIMES THE PRICE and no Epiphone should cost more than a Fender or a Godin.
Times are tough. As a working musician, now it's just have one really good guitar and stick with it for life.
One is none and two is one. A working musician needs a back up.
@@Southernguitar74 Yeah I know that to be the case, but as I said, times are tough. These brands are only getting more expensive.
For the price they are asking I would rather have a Eastman guitar. Same price and way better quality MHO
Rather have an Eastman than a modern Gibson...My LP Custom is a Burny and is built every bit as good as Gibson...Burny,Tokai& Eastman are right up there...
or A Reverend
Have three Eastmans. Get 'em before they get too expensive because they're heading that direction fast.
The Eastman LP guitars are under 8 lbs or they don’t make it out of the factory.
The best way to force prices down is to make sure the manufacturer discovers that the public will refuse to buy the product until the price is appropriate.
People will buy them and Epi offers options at price points starting around $200 so what is the issue?
the problem is that people don’t refuse it in real life, everyone complains about the prices but at the same time people keep buying them at whatever price they sell them for because it says adam jones, kirk hammett, dave mustaine… you name it. And not just with epiphone, LTDs and schecters used to be dirt cheap too
The problem is they are selling. Cant even get the grohl guitar right now. Why wouldn’t they charge this.
Facts
Because they can.
Epiphone for $1900.00? No way!
Absolutely, that's ridiculous pricing, but get this, I'm a lefty and a Epiphone USA Casino hollowbody electric guitar sells for $3499.00, it cost more than a "Gibson Les Paul standard".
00:55 Love the Cartman (South Park) impression with the echo. 🤣 I was kicking around buying a $1500 Epiphone Bonamassa SG. I ultimately went with a Gibson SG Maestro, my first Gibson...cherry is officially popped now. It was that psychological price threshold on the Epiphone that took me to that "might as well get a Gibson" decision point. Maybe Gibson and Epiphone are rigging prices that way. Many people will look at that $2500 price tag on the Gibson and think the Epiphone is a bargain.
I thought that the point of Epiphone was for people who couldn't afford a Gibson? It seems that they are just going to price themselves out of the market? Greedy bastards!
Have you always hated capitalism?
You can still get an Epiphone Les Paul Standard for $699. That's about $100 more than it was 10 years ago and in-line with the crazy inflation we're feeling on all goods... These $900-$1500 Epiphones ARE NOT the cheap junk at the bottom, they usually have USA Switchcraft parts, CTS pots, USA capacitors, Gibson USA pickups. In other words, you're getting the soul of a USA Gibson in a Les Paul body for about 50-75% off the price of a USA built Gibson... Under JC's leadership he elevated the Epiphone brand to put it toe to toe with what Fender is building in Mexico, and I would say the entire Inspired By Gibson lineup has been a huge success and these guitars are great alternatives..The value of the US dollar goes down a little each year, it is what it is.
Agree with everything except the "soul" (yep, I had to be, that, guy) of a Gibson. Having been down (and still on) the 'put USA parts in/on your Epiphones and making them equal to Gibsons is not the case. I've tried and tried and tried with different Epiphones. They're still fun for kicking around with and having a halfway decent sounding and good playing (after some more work) guitars.
The expensive Epiphone still uses the same woods, frets etc. So you still get the junk, just with fancy electronics.
@@stratolestele7611 Is soul of Gibson poor quality control? Being done by poorly paid imigrant or manual workers in USA?
Fender MIM is more affordable and you get a better guitar
What are you talking about? Look at the specs on the Epiphone 59 ($999) for example, solid Mahagony body, solid AAA maple cap... No one knows what fretwire Gibson or Epiphone use, they are non stainless steel frets either way. They will wear over time and you'll need a refret. The fretboards are Indian Laurel on the Epiphones, you get real inlays, you get a Nitro finish (one of the most expensive things here), and you get more bench time by Gibson to dress the frets and other attention to detail... But the bench time you can pay a tech to do with a setup and fret dressing and truthfully you need to do this with a new Gibson as well. So, generally strongly disagree.
This is the reality. I buy and sell hundreds of guitars a year. I got a gibson les paul studio smokehouse burst 2023 for 800 local. Mint. I got an epiphone amos for 700 dollars local. I sold the epiphone for 1100 and the gibson for 800. My advice. Buy as many gibsons as you can. They are average over half off used. This is the absolutely best time to buy gibson guitars. For whatever reason people are flocking to epiphone but the margin makes no sense. Search you local markets and buy every gibson you can. This whole crazy pricing will absolutely change one day
I paid $475 for a 2014 Fender Standard Strat, with case, that was unused and had been in controlled storage. There isnt too many that sound or play, or look, as nice as this one. I was totally surprised.
It won’t work in the long run for Epiphone as long as brands like PRS SE, Schecter, Ltd, etc keep offering Korean made guitars at prices around $1000 which are superior in every way.
PRS SE's are Indonesia made
@@frankschmidt4311 May be they produce in Indonesia now. The PRS SE Custom 24 (from 2018) I use on my channel is made in Korea.
Agile makes a pretty good Les Paul too, also MIK. Korean guitars and aftermarket parts are generally decent and well-priced. Indonesia produces some good guitars too but I think they also have some really low end stuff. My Squire VM and Faith acoustic were made in Indonesia, both excellent. The Faith is fantastic.
Indonesian PRS guitars are fantastic.
I bought my Gibson '68 Flying V for $699 in 1994. The Epiphones were $299 for comparison.
$1000 in 2024 is equivalent to $125 in 1970. In 1970 it was really hard to find a playable guitar for $125.
Comparing $1000 in 2024 to $125 in 1970 suggests a big difference in purchasing power. In 1970, $125 could buy a playable guitar, but with advancements in manufacturing, $1000 in 2024 can likely buy a much higher-quality guitar
It's my understanding it's much cheaper to make quality guitars today. So there should be a cost savings passed on, which the cheaper Amazon brands do.
You're comparing 1970 apples to 2024 oranges.
They don't compare in quality of build, manufacturing costs, or as the other guy said, the power of the consumer dollar in spending.
@@PowersPoch Bingo! You finished my thought. Thank you!
@@charlie-obrien Exactly!
The new Epiphones have skyrocketed in price like new trucks and cars, and also like new trucks and cars, as soon as you bring it home it already depreciated by the hour whereas you can't sell it for what you bought it for. Only what may be future "collectibles " might be worth more than what you paid.
Yeah, Gibson/epiphone are becoming the Harley Davidson of the guitar world. They used to be iconic, run mostly off their old reputation with horrible QC issues, and almost everyone who plays them are old retired people with money that dont really play THAT much.
@@patrickmcpartland1398guilty as charged. ✌️
This is why I love Harley Benton!
Amen, their higher end models are so great. I'd easily take 3-4 HB's over a single Epiphone.
I just purchased the Harley Benton JA 25th fire-mist this morning. I already own the Harley Benton JA-60 OW and
love it.
@@bluesdawg8014 i have the te 52 tele better than any Fender under 200 delivered!
I've never tried an HB, but I just took a look at that JA model and it seems pretty nice and the price was pretty damn incredible.
thanks for speaking up about this. I appreciate guys like you who understand how things really work
Prices will keep going up let’s just accept this and enjoy playing our guitars knowing they are rising in value!
Over AUD$3k for the Dave Grohl model now in Australia. It's insane. That will get you into USA strat money territory lol.
I found one for around $2700 online. But still. Laurel fingerboard? They’re just taking the piss now
@tylerdurden5122 yeah agreed. Lol yeah laurel instead of rosewood is a bit rich.
You shouldn't be surprised by this but you also shouldn't support it and you should speak out against it. Friends don't let friends overpay.
Most Indonesia (Cort/Cortek made) guitars I've tried have been very impressive. The guitars they make for Ibanez, PRS, and Schecter are usually very well appointed and are ready to gig out of the box. The Cort brand guitars are usually less expensive because there's no middleman brand, and they offer the same great quality. I highly recommend the Cort X700, G300, and KX700. For Les Paul style guitars, Vintage & PRS SE have some great options.
Imagine paying that for Indian laurel
The value of wood is purely based on tradition. If martin and gibson had used indian laurel back in the day, guitarists would want that instead of brazilian rosewood
@@ileutur6863nah cause Laurel sucks and yields the most dry boards imaginable. Why they chose that over other much better options is insane.
@@ileutur6863 nah Indian laurel looks like ass.
And to think I bought my Worn Brown Gibson SG Faded for $600 in 2009… lol
I bought a Gibson LP studio new in 2005 for $1000, with a hard case!
Hard to want to buy any new guitar at the current prices, so guess it’s time to finally learn to play 😂
And i can find them for about 850 online, so right on track for the same cost adjusted for inflation.
@@patrickmcpartland1398 not for a brand new one like what I paid! I was comparing how the Epiphone prices are very high now compared to what base model Gibsons used to be. The world has gone crazy!
@@patrickmcpartland1398 just waiting for the amount of money I earn to catch up with the rate of inflation, and then I can buy guitars again
Worn Brown Gibson = modern day relic custom reissue limited edition = add some zero’s to the price. lol
That's the reason I started building my own guitars. I've made around 50 over the last 13 (or so) years. some were duds but most turned out good, some turned out very good. The point I wanted to make(and prove to myself) is that you can make your own three thousand dollar guitars for a lot less than three grand. And have a lot of fun doing it.
I just pimped out two glarrys and a squire and they play so nice. Its a lot of work to get everything just right and it usually cost about $400 but they play like a dream
@@Boozeblues Exactly!!!!
It’s beyond the industry. Why are prices so high?because your dollar isn’t worth shit.
Look what it buys at the super mkt or gas station. It’s inflation!
That's the truth! That's what it all comes down to. The value of the dollar has been rapidly decreasing and they just keep on printing more. Thanks Obama and your brother Biden.
Just picked up an Epiphone J-200, not a cheap guitar, for me at least. But I love it!
I own two Epiphone Explorers. A $699 Ghosthorse and a $799 Prophecy. Imho they’re a great bang for the buck.
Companies like D'Angelico have been charging 2k for import guitars for years. Many of these Epis have Gibson pickups and hard cases which cost money. I recently bought an Alex Lifeson Ruby Red and it's well worth the money.
In Tokyo the prices have also gone up… and I thought it was just the currency exchange. Searching for a nice Japanese brand instead… but in general everything has gone up.
Yeah, I haven't really bought guitars in like 6 years and it's gotten crazy. Even the Japanese brands that I used to go for for the "secret deals" aren't nearly as cheap as they used to be.
That said, unless things have changed radically since after covid, Edwards and Navigator make nice new production Gibson patterned guitars. They're part of ESP, made in Japan, and even have the right headstock shape because they're for domestic market only.
I have a 3 humbucker black beauty LP custom from Edwards from like 10 years ago and it's great.
Edwards is lower end than Navigator (It's kinda like highest end Epiphone vs Gibson) but still pretty nice. Edwards I'd say is comparable to high end Epiphone and ESP's LTD EC-1000 line, and it looks like you can get them used for the old Epiphone prices sometimes judging from Ebay and Reverb right now. I'd imagine that if you're in Tokyo you can get them for even better in local stores or whatever.
The lowest end of ESP's brand of domestic only Gibson-style guitars is Grassroots, but those aren't made in Japan.
If you go used with the older Japanese lawsuit era brands for Gibson-style guitars like Greco, Tokai, Fernandes, Burny, etc., you have even more options and they can be nice if you buy the higher end ones of that era (i.e. the ones that aren't bolt-on necks, have fret nibs, etc.). Though with their age they're more likely to be beat up or have issues with wiring or whatever else you tend to run into with old used guitars.
Biggest issue with those brands is that they have new production instruments that are made in China, so you'll have to do research to tell if it's MIJ or MIC. Easiest way for me to tell though is that if it's a LP Custom style and it has the Gibson split diamond inlay. You see that and it's a pretty sure bet that it's old enough to have been made in Japan, lol
Got an early 80's Greco Peter Frampton style LP Custom that has the right headstock shape and even the split diamond logo and fret nibs.
That one I got at old Epiphone prices at $600-ish iirc, but that was also pre-covid.
Anyways, sorry for the long-winded comment. Hope you find something good.
Keisel has a sweet niche. Where else can you get a FULLY custom guitar, with your choice/combination of style, wood,finish, color, hardware, pickups, etc? I bought a fully custom chambered guitar with MIDI for more than half of any of the other brands "Custom" shop. 15 years down the road, it still plays great.
I always watch your channel for your knowledge of the musical instrument industry.
Some pretty insane shit going on
Important point to understand: guitar dealers aren't concerned with whether you buy the top dollar guitar or the less expensive guitar. They want to sell the guitar with the best profit margin. And that might be the most expensive or it might be the cheapest guitar. And even MORE important, they want to sell as many as possible in a given period of time. Imagine if you asked someone how much money they make and they said (like in Rainman) "a hundred dollars". That could be a lot or almost nothing, depending on the period of time it takes to make that amount...one minute, one hour, a day, a week...as well as the background econony, i.e. how much $100 will purchase. So the prices being listed...there might be a huge markup, but the retailer has to balance that with the consideration of how many of these units will sell in a month, or a year...a profit margin of $1000 a unit is meaningless if you don't sell any! :-). Anyway, my 2¢...thought provoking episode, as usual. Cheers
I have a client for whom I made a total custom guitar almost 25years ago. The client had bought an early Dean V back in the mid-80s and it was the first one I'd ever had the opportunity to examine. I told the client it was spectacular, and way superior to a similar Gibson. I had also gotten my hands on one of the first Fender Japan 62 Reissue Strats and told the same client to buy one ASAP, because they were (are) THAT close. The same thing with the first Epiphone 335 DOTs. See a pattern? PS the client is VERY happy they listened to me.
FYI. Visited Sam Ash in New Haven CT. A sad looking store, w sad long term employees and prices on diminished inventory almost the same as before.
Guitars are cool but with Bidenomics killing all of us we need groceries too. I’ll play my awesome $300 Ibanez, it does everything and then some.
How is “bidenomics” killing us? 😂😂😂
@@Cmunic8 It certainly isn’t helping us.
Much smaller companies do import lines too. Eg Dingwall and Ormsby. They will never have the power to dominate the market, and their imports aren't cheap. However it does provide an entry level to their products.
I kinda wonder if this has been an intentional move by Gibson to push perception of the true Les Paul up to PRS Singlecut levels. IMO Gibson has relied solely on their name for too long and the PRS is inarguably a higher-quality instrument.
Agreed
Buying American means less and less with each year
The Beatles played Epyeys a lot...😊
I'm never going to buy Epiphone at their new price point, in fact I'm offended by their greed! It's time for Players to say No!
Phillip, thanks for filling this video with such wisdom. Oh wait, that's what you do with all of your videos! PS) I just realized that I only own USA made guitars (1977 Guild D40C; 1970s (?) Spector NS-2A bass (non-stock, employee-made?); 1989 G&L Skyhawk Signature; 1994 C.P. Thornton custom *trat (that I bought directly from Chuck). I'm a terrible guitarist, yet terribly lucky to own such truly fine instruments.
Whenever I read comments from people bashing on Epiphone's prices versus American made guitars, I chuckle a little. For us players outside the USA most guitars are import guitars, in some cases they can all be pricey. Sometimes a USA-made guitar can be out of reach for most players, but luckily nowadays there's plenty of quality instruments at more affordable prices. Case in point, Epiphone. They're pretty good instruments, sure they're getting more expensive, but they're still more obtainable for a lot of players and that's cool. I think everyone deserves a shot at enjoying a good instrument.
yes, but not everyone gets the shot, if they are asking 2k for Chinese made guitar.
You make a lot of sense, Phillip. One thing you didn't mention is buying import guitars, perhaps on the used market, and upgrading them if you, as a player need to make specific improvements. This is where secondary sellers like the Stratosphere on eBay make their money. I know it's a different issue, but I'm thinking about guitars like the Epiphone Casino (and Casino Coupe) which aren't available as U.S. made (Gibson) models. Maybe you have thoughts on that too?
I proudly buy Chibson!!!!
It's a free market. If you like and you think it's worth it then buy it. If not buy something else.
I went to Guitar Center last week and there are still a boatload of Epis priced in the $400-800 range. The ones everyone's up in arms about are almost all signature models (Grohl, Hammet, etc). Basically if you don't need a famous person's name on your guitar, you can still get plenty of Epiphones at the prices we're more accustomed to. For example, they had a number of gorgeous flametop 335s for $700. Functionally the same thing as the Grohl model. This is overblown.
Are you aware that Epiphone is using real mother of pearl inlays, Gibson burst bucker USA pickups, and Grover roto matic tuners on most of the higher end Gibson inspired guitars? I don't think you could buy the Gibson pickups and Grover tuners for $300. Just my two cents.
I bought one of Epiphone's new Korina Flying Vs at just over £1000 UK and I think it is worth it, great guitar. However I am looking at the new Epiphone Firebird V at £1700 UK and thinking that's way too much given the relative cheapness of Chinese manufacture.
Epiphone guitars are all...cra*!! Every single Epi I have owned has disappointed and any price. They are junk , especially the new ones.
Lolololololololo!I look lolol
Nonsense.
I just got wise and started buying used project guitars.
I end up with the exact guitar i want out of it with sometimes simple mods and upgrades
Like many have said, the buyer sets the market. If sales for Epiphones drop by significant margins quarter over quarter, the prices will come down. Look at the PRS SE Silver sky. They were 850 when they first came out, but you can find the new all day long for 630+.
my 15 year old epi 295 hollow body gold top plays and sounds great ! my family got it for my 50th birthday. It is made in Korea with p90's they paid 700.00 brand new. it's discontinued now .Came w/bigsby tremelo bar
Guitars are the new tulips if you can understand that reference.
Good reference.
@@DougHinVA- Yes, and "Bubble"- as has preceded disastrous COLLAPSE, in several speculation - collapse events in the "boom and bust" cycle of industries, in the last couple hundred years.
- To get Academic about this "Tulip" reference , Couple hundred years ago, (when New York was called "New Amsterdam"), the Dutch had huge fortunes via their shipping of spices, silk, porcelain, etc. from the Orient, THE RICH had fortunes to spend, on Amsterdam homes, paintings, and ( to this day) flowers. Tulips, being early and hardy, brought high, then insanely high, prices. For uniquely colored, early tulips, ONE BULB could sell for the price of a modest home, on land, in the outskirts of Amsterdam. Like all "bubbles", after a couple decades, the frenzy wore- off, and tulip priced dropped, speculators lost their asses...
- If the "guitar bubble" runs outta buyers, the $150 Fender Squire will return...
@@DougHinVA It actually happened from 1634 to 1637.
Next, Squire prices will go through the roof
Squier just had a more reasonable price adjustment recently.
But Fender already has multi tiered price/equipment levels ...
2 or more Asian, 2 Mexican and several USA levels.
Once again, at least in marketing, Fender has been way ahead of Gibson for years.
Most people don’t buy phones, they’re given free when they purchase a plan.
I paid 700 bucks for a hand made les paul style guitar, made right here in knoxville TN where im from and it shits on anything epiphone makes. Even came with a case. Gregory Glandon guitars for anyone curious. All under 1000 bucks. Pretty sure mine has a real nitro finish if im not mistaken.
"Is that a real nitro finish Clark?"
The Firebird, the V and the Explorer all makes sense in the 2023 line.. it's the same wood, and the same cuts (I believe) especially for the Korina series, that I think they ended this year. It was a partnership with the Gibby Custom Shop, nice silkscreen badge under the clear coat so China can't fake it, well, not without some major effort. The more Gibby parts and wood the Epi uses the closer the price will be, the bean counters will make sure of that.
If you want a reasonably priced guitar built in SE Asia, consider a Squier. I bought a Squier Baritone the middle of last year. The build quality is really quite nice as is the playability.
Squiers haven’t been worth anything since about 2005. Throwing a ton of lacquer on a chunk of green wood hardly makes a great guitar. None of them stay in tune or intonate. Same with modern Fenders.
I never said it was a great guitar.@@zerosoma33 I said reasonably priced. I have done only minor set up work to it. I play it regularly. I have had zero problems with its stability. And as much as I would like a Reverend Baritone, I couldn't justify spending +/- $1,000 more. For a no longer professional, home studio player, it meets my needs. Safe travels.
When i first lived outside Nashville in 2004 Gibson had a store at the Opry Mills mall. I went in there one time and saw they had Epiphone guitars for the price of 1,000 and maybe a little more. I asked a salesman about it and said Guitar Center in the same city had them for $500.00. He said they include setups and etc. i guess they wanted people to feel like they would be taken good care of if they bought from the factory. Sometimes famous Japanese builders at Epiphone made guitars that were that expensive.
have you tried any Jet guitars Phil?
I have one. Fantastic.
A Squier Classic Vibe 60s that is a reissue of a 60s Strat except for a Laurel fingerboard is $429 vs Epiphone 1959 Les Paul reissue with Laurel fingerboard is $1299 (nearly quadruple the price).
Everything has gone up in price over the last few years. Cars, houses, groceries, energy, restaurants etc.. of course the guitar makers are following suit. That bring said, I bought myself an Epi '59 Les Paul last Christmas. $749 with Gibson burstbucker pickups, Cts pots, Switchcraft toggle and input, Mallory capacitors, 50's style braided wiring and a Epi hardcase. The guitar looks, plays and sounds fantastic, and was surprisingly well set up/intonated right out of the box. It was an excellent value for my money considering the Gibson equivalent is $6700, almost 9 times more than the Epi. The exorbitant "Made in America" price gouging and snobbery is what people should really be complaining about in my opinion.
I remember back when Jeff Kiesel started doing Q&As, someone asked why they stopped making the Carvin Cobalt acoustic guitars. And he said, plain and simple, they couldn't keep the quality up to their expectations. The world is a little smaller these days, to where I'm sure they could have more qualified eyes on the product. They could do the SE thing where someone in the US takes a quick look at every guitar to make sure it isn't complete trash. But the room for error is pretty high. Kiesel have rolled with inflation pretty aggressively. I bought a mostly barebones Carvin DC in 1998 for $729. Building a similar one today would be right at $2k. I would hope that they're not losing money at those rates. Maybe not printing money, but I never thought that was the aim.
The Epiphone Frontier from the USA collection commands a whopping price tag of $3,999.00, five times the price of the Chinese-made Masterbilt Frontier at $799.00. Like the Casino, there are several key differences between these two to justify the vast gulf in pricing.
The Made in USA Frontier is made in Bozeman, Montana, in tribute to the original Epiphone Frontier made from 1958 to 1970. The guitar has high-end materials to suit its high price tag, including a solid Sitka spruce top and solid figured maple back and sides, Indian rosewood fretboard, traditional hand-scalloped X-bracing, and gold-plated Gotoh Keystone tuners. The Epiphone equivalent, impressively, features similar construction, including the same materials for the guitar’s top, back, and sides. Even the “lariat-and-cactus” pickguard, as seen in the image above, is common to both instruments. The primary difference in the guitar’s construction is it’s bracing, as the Chinese-made Frontier lacks the hand-scalloped X-bracing of its American cousin. The Masterbilt Frontier also uses Indian laurel, rather than rosewood, for its fretboard material, which has lighter color.
If the only reason for the cost of these is insane markup and it becomes the norm then someone else will swoop in to fill the gap. For me, there's marginal additional cachet to have Epi on the headstock. Certainly not $1k worth.
My 4 Epiphones (spanning 30 plus years) in order; Les Paul Special 2 (first electric kept in classroom so I could sneak in some practice time), Wilshire Pro (incredible sound horrible quality), Wild Kat Royal (great guitar at any price), and Slash Epiphone Les Paul Special 2 (cuz, well, it's Slash!) To me that's what Epiphone is (was); a mix of their own unique classics and affordable copies.
Never been 'an Epiphone guy,' but their recent offerings are pretty nice guitars. Everything costs more these days, simple fact. That said, if you're patient and open your options up, you can find nice guitars for decent prices. Just bought a Godin Stadium HT (Tele style) guitar--made in Canada, very nice gig bag, brand new for $650 shipped from Pro Audio Star. Now it's back up to $1100. So you just have to be patient and pick your spots.
First plus $1K China guitars I saw were the Jacksons late last year because I was jonesing for a V. Slept on it for a few weeks, grabbed a used Carvin V at equal or lesser price.
I watched a video a few months ago about the Epiphone prices going up. It’s because Gibson will no longer be making guitars in that price range anymore , cheap Gibsons will now start at around 3 to 4 grand and anything below that will be a Epiphone and Epiphone will get to use the Gibson HS.
I recently worked on a newer Squier, and was very impressed with the neck and the fretwork. The craftsmanship is much improved over the older stuff. Hardware and electronics are still sub-par, but still quite impressed overall.
The other thing I wonder about , is that these price increases might help the many small/one-person builders out quite a bit. They might actually be able to charge what they're worth.
Fretwork is always a crapshoot with budget guitars. My Squire Vintage Modified came with perfectly level frets and smooth fret ends. Much less work for me. The Duncan designed pickups aren't bad either. In fact the only parts I swapped out were the block and the ugly white pickguard with a pearloid. I paid $299 for that guitar 3-4 years ago. The VM's have since been discontinued, but I see the Classic Vibes are up to $450 now.
I just bought a Squier body and neck for a Classic Vibe 70's Jass bass that I'm putting together and the quality over even a few years ago is significantly improved.
ESP are doing the same price gouging; LTD George Lynch Desert Eagle = $1,699... made in Indonesia and comes with a cheap Korean Floyd Rose 1000. Ridiculous.
Alex Lifeson is now 1700$.
This is insane. I'd willingly pay 1300$ it was like SIX months ago, but 1700$?
I can buy a used Gibson Studio for 1400$.
I picked up the epiphone greeny and for the price I payed the fretwork is scratchy and needed work. I also picked up an Ibanez rg550 and the fretwork is beautiful so smooth and silky, a pleasure to play for half the price of the greeny, I own several Epiphones and some high end Gibsons, but I’m done they need to improve quality if their charging more, they will get no more money from me for premium priced substandard workmanship.
The epis in my local shops are wayyyyy nice then all then a lot of the other stuff on the walls. Especially the fenders. I love fender but damn they are all junk these days.
The Japanese Fenders are still top quality.
@@profane_kvetch don’t really see them bedside used online.
@@profane_kvetch also unobtainable
I have 3 Epiphone Les Pauls, all are beautiful, one is a 2005 Standard, one a 2010 Slash and one a 2021 1959. None of them I would swap for a Gibson. But I did play a £600 Epiphone Les Paul in a shop recently and it was horrible, I think I was lucky with mine.
Capitalism baby. Cheap wages, damn the consequences. Fetish for the brandname and "handmade in USA" tag can only go so far.
Wages in China have thankfully grown over the past decades. The fact that US labor is so overpriced and uncompetitive is a problem to solve, not to escape.
US labor isn't overpriced. You can pay an entire factory of workers great wages, if the CEOs and managers and other useless suits up top took a massive pay cut.
@@ileutur6863 i agree in sentiment, but US workers have a loooot of overhead to pay. Rents, insurance, healthcare costs etc all make them more expensive to employ.
I'm a huge Adam Jones fan. When the Epiphone Adam Jones Les Paul Custom was first released, I bitched and moaned about the $1299 price tag.
Then I bought one.....
I have 2 Epis: a '16 LP PlusTop Pro with gorgeous flame, cherry burst. A 2023 IG 335, cherry. Both guitars are absolutely outstanding instruments I'd put against a Gibby anytime. Paid $749 for the LP and $699 for the 335. Epis are still in this price range unless you're going after a sig model. The recent quality of Epis has really risen to a whole new level. I'd have to pay $3k more for a Gibby 335 and not get anywhere near the quality bump for the money.
Hi Phil An Epiphone Firebird is $3500 in Australia. Way too expensive.
I'm in love with the new Epiphones too but, I won't pay it ....I see it as pure greed ....as a person that owns many many Epiphones it hurts me to see this and say that.😢
Corporate America seems to be in a "grab it while you can" mode. No matter the industry or product, the mantra is to make as much money as possible. They do this by 1) Cutting costs (cheap foreign labor, lesser quality parts/raw materials) and 2) Maximize profit (in other words, charge as much as the market will bear). This is happening everywhere. Automobiles, food, homes and yes, guitars. Not sure there is much the average Joe can do other than buy used or only buy things when truly necessary.
I have a pristine ES-335 I bought new. I immediately installed locking tuners as I did not know better. Have I ruined the value of this bright red beast?
And because of that, used 90s, 2000s MiJ Epis and Orvilles are up in prices as well. Lucky if can get in one for USD600
I only buy used and have never paid more than $350 for a guitar. I currently own an Inspired By Gibson Les Paul Standard, SG Standard and Les Paul Special. If someone is patient and keeps an eye on the used market great guitars can be picked up at a fraction of the cost of some of these new Epis. There’s deals out there if someone looks long enough.
I miss the good old days on reverb when my GAS days were high and mighty…just up until 3-4 years ago. So many USA made guitars.
There is a Bonnamassa gold Epi Firebird 1 Treasure, mint with all the documents, special gig bag etc locally for $750. Maybe I should buy that thing!
The new 63 SG Custom with Vibrola looks nice. Very expensive though
I have 8 Epiphones in the arsenal my Bonamassa 335 being the most expensive. With Gibson pups and pots I was shooting for a 335 at a third the cost not so much the high dollar for an Epi. I think most manufacturers want you to buy 10 not just 1 and for years the features vs price metric kept increasing to where you can get a damn fine axe fo 650 or less. I have a Firebird I got for 650, not paying twice that for a cool paint job. Especially since the Iceman is back for 800 or less!
for most even me being Canadian, i don't think that made in USA is the selling point. just good quality control, which yes is also lacking by the workers even in some American fender factories who are more than underpaid.
agree 100%. it is much easier to hide bad soldering, and craftmanship in a phone which will almost never be serviced its entire lifespan. sadly, guitar electronics are much bigger lol. easier to see where they cheaped out.