Good one John, British Expat living in Thailand, ex mechanic, still remember as a snot nose apprentice 50 years ago having to decarbonise cylinder heads and grind valves, no one does this now,car drivers have never had it so good, love your show, keep the good work up.
My first car, a Ford Pop 100E had instructions for decarbonising the head in the owners handbook in that section where they now explain how to change a tire or light globe.
John, you have given one of the best explanations of carbon buildup in modern GDI engines and how to prevent, or at least, mitigate it. Highway diving also burns off any excess gas (petrol) in the oil that leads to oil dilution due to blow by and short drives.
Subaru have included inlet manifold cleaner in their servicing for at least 20 years due to the boxer engine having longer inlet tracts. An aerosol foam is sprayed into a vacuum port on the manifold with the engine hot. This does coat the inlet including the valves. The engine is then started and run at high rpm while you pump the rest of the can in. Whatever is in the can is potent, it will strip the two pack paint off the workshop floor, nothing else touches it. $20 A can from Subaru, it might be worth a try if you have a manky manifold.
The Subaru upper engine cleaner is a brilliant product. I started working on Subaru's in 94 and we were using it then on all EFI models. It was also great as a penetrating lubricant for the stubborn turbo bolts on older RS liberty's. Nulon also sell the same product and I use it in our GDI cars every service.
@@matthewrafferty4117 Did you ever loose the straw off the end? My apprentice did, it got sucked in, rattled past the inlet valve and we could smell it burning on that catalytic converter, no lasting damage thankfully.😂
@Andrew H i do. I give mine the upper engine cleaner, a dose of oil flush into the oil, dump that oil and refill, give it a drive around for a few minutes then dump and refill the oil and filter again.
There are fairly inexpensive aftermarket canisters that can be installed to eliminate the issue. Matter of time before manufacturers build this into their products.
@@laner989 Mazda has been doing it for years. My 2014 M6 has an oem air/oil separator and it appears to not be an issue on some higher mileage skyactiv engines so far.
Doesn't help, trust me. I live in northern Germany in Lübeck and here we have quite a stretch of unlimited autobahn around. My Mazda 6 mps receives quite often the italian tune up and the oil is changed every 8000km with every 3 oil changes comes also an engine flushing. Still I have to do every two years the intake valves clean up if I want my car to run in tip-top conditions even at 250 km/h and not blow itself up zoom zoom banging. Oil catch can is the way to go with direct injected engines, empty that can every two weeks and you're good to go. If you're a hardcore gearknob then install water-meth injection in the intake and it's all good, you have more power and the valves will stay clean.
@B. Toff , last time I checked Mazda 6 mps was a limited series built in Hiroshima between 2006 and 2007 having as a base block a co-developed duratec engine with ford and the rest is Mazda. Yes, it's direct injection and turbo-charged, it's the predecesor of the 2.3 ecoboost engine that Ford has now and has refined it. So, yeah, it's JDM allright... that's why she rusts like there's no tomorrow, like almost all jdm cars.
@@eEnzo0 idk dude I have a shit box honda civic 1.4 non v tech base model from '02 and its spotless on the bottom. One fender starts going but on the important bits it's fine.
100% true. Highway driving is great for vehicles. I know the jury is still out on catch cans but I ended up fitting one to my ranger and its done a great job. I used a borescope just to check the intake manifold and after 100,000 Kms is remarkably clean.
Wow, this is the best explanation of how this all works and why! I'm starting to do oil changes every 5k on my new (2nd hand) 1.6l turbo 2020 seltos. I had 2 diesel 2.2l motors die on my old 2009 mazda6 and didnt fully understand why. Than you so much!👍🤠🇦🇺
Thank you very much John for all your thoroughly detailed and explanatory videos! You make us all wiser with each of them! Keep up the great work and greetings from Greece!
I've watched a video here about that few years ago about turbo cars. I am driving a Santa Fe 2019 with the 2.0L Turbo. I just change my oil every time i change my tyres for Winter or Summer unless i do more than 6K between these times. Easy to remind, haven't got any issue there. When you spend that kind of money on a car, just put enough money to maintain it in good shape... It's part of the owning cost.
My DPF light has come on twice in the last 2 weeks, after having my Navara for 3 years averaging 40min drive to work and home, and now it's 10 mins to and 20 mins home from work. Catch can is working a treat though. Need to blow the cobwebs out of it once a week now..........apparently..... Another informative vid....
I am disappointed that you weren't disappointed that you couldn't diagnose whether Frank should or shouldn't believe that he traveled to Sale, Victoria in FEB 2020.
Build up does happen on the valves of a direct injection engine. My wife’s 2011 VW Tiguan 2.0 L TDI engine at 98,000 miles started to get cold start misfires. I knew what it was as soon as it happened took the vehicle into the dealership and $700 later and six hours of labor the valves have been cleaned. I got to look at the valves before they started the cleaning and they were very very built up with carbon. I looked at doing the job myself and I didn’t really want to spend 6 to 7 hours and all you have to go through on that particular engine to get the intake manifold off. On this engine it takes two hours to get it off and two hours to get it back on and the cleaning in between. after watching some videos I decided not to take it on myself.
Think I remember reading an article somewhere that talked about the best setup being a combination of both direct and indirect fuel injection and under different circumstances each system offers more power so to combine the two gets the best of both worlds and for the portion of time the indirect injectors are running it cleans the valves...... not bad.....
@@lozza2272 So does my SEAT 2.0 TSi 190... in fact all VAG engines Gen 3b with Budack cycle. www.automobilemag.com/news/inside-volkswagen-ea888-b-cycle-2-0-tsi-i4/
Talking about oil contamination/ water etc, you should do a tech talk on E85 based fuels. Holden experimented with this but it never caught on in Straya except for the performance enthusiast market.
Didn’t we used to use Redex for this kind of stuff? Weekends in the suburbs were once clouds of light grey smoke rising from push rod sixes. Let’s return to the good old days !
I actually still use, absolutely routinely - i.e. every fuel fill, cause I'm a full to empty tanker, ( petrol or dis-easel ) a fuel additive, namely Moreys Upper Cyclinder Additive of which is an injector cleaner as well..... I used a couple of different brands over 30 odd years of driving but have decided that i like the Moreys one best. I bought a well kept 2nd hand car at 21 years of age & did a compression test at purchase & then did another compression test 5 years later & the engine had better compression at the 5 year mark. I can but only "assume" that the U.C.L cleaned & lubed, as it purports to do so, the compression rings & - in theory, only possibly the inlet valves ( on a carbu'ratted engine...) But i did have the carb fully reco'd & ran a Bosch GT40 coil - big monster spark - as was witnessed on a exhaust gas analyzer - it leaned out massively on idle in comparison to the old original O.E.M coil. + as stated, the "Italian tune up" still works wonders & is very much so applicable more than ever due to slower motorway/ hiway speeds due to traffic congestion... My N.Z. new 2010 Toyota HiAce doesn't have a D.P.F from new - only became mandatory in 2015 in "Sheep Shaggistan" (N.Z.) & I'm so very very glad of that fact.... But none the less they're on the vehicles for perfectly understandable reasons.... But even the "Ace" will respond to an "Italian tune" - for those of us who know/remember the "exhaust pipe colour" tell tale - not quite the same colour as was had with leaded fuel, rather just a darker tinge, unlike what hair that does remain on my head..... Any other users of fuel additives or U.C.L's out there at all????
@@somerandomgoogleuser3374 yeah mate same here been using moreys for 30+ years it does work I often wonder if the injector ( power booster) kit would work on those direct inj engines 😃👍
@@barneybetelgeuse6273 Yea na, meaning no!!!! I've had two mates who had them when we were younger guys into Carburetors on Ford V8's & they didn't seem to work - you mean the constant drip type of set up?? Is that what the "Power Booster" system is/ was?? - from memory??? A dripalator system??? I'm talking about my mates using them about 25-30 years ago.... I've tried "Fyrex" fuel additive but have gone back to Moreys U.C.L., i believe it looks after the compression rings better. I proved it worked with the compression test....absolutely for sure.... + meticulous oil changes & vehicle servicing/maintenance... Simple shiv really. I look after them & they look after me ( with reliability + they're, mostly (4) Toyota's - pre 2010 stuff.... Nice to hear of another Moreys user!!! I heard of a guy running Castor oil ( for it's light weightiness) in his carburetored Wizz Bang lawn mower - otherwise know as a Rotary!!!
One of the dealer tricks is to ring the customer during the service and hit then with we recommend X be done. They do this to catch you off guard, hoping you're preoccupied or busy at work and will say yes ok. It's all worked out. This can include valve clean, they spray or say they did a can of $20 magic and bill to you $ 230 but as a gesture (jesture) of goodwill because you're getting your car serviced $190. It's often not needed.
Direct injection is one of the few automotive terms that is a clear description of what it is, Like drive by wire, sounds like a Tesla thats being driven by the internet even tho it just means a sensor reads your right foot position rather then the pedal being connected by a metal cable to the intake
I've done that every change on my Honda EarthDream since 2015, and it seems to do the trick. Although, no one on the forum has reporting carbon buildup on these engines so maybe it's Honda's voodoo magic?
Hello john, what do you think of gdi intake valve cleaners like CRC gdi cleaner that you spray directly to the inlet system . I am worried that loosened carbon chunks could damage pistons, turbo and catalytic converter .
Love your stuff. Thank you. I'd sure love to someday share a pitcher of beer and a bowl of pretzels with you, however unlikely that is. Be well and thanks for your stuff.
Another thing people don’t realize it that auto manufacturers are in the business of making cars - if their products don’t break and wear out regularly, the business won’t survive very long. To help with intake valve coking, Air-oil separators/catch cans work, but so does water injected into the intake. Those together with a good hour-long jaunt weekly at highway speeds will keep an internal combustion engine “clean”.
Video is all correct. Changebyour oil regularly. There will be build up after 10k but it won't be enough to affect anything. Every 50k miles get a mechanical cleaning with walnut blasting or DIY with a bunch of cable ties shoved down a drill. Sea Foam or similar are useless and another car cleaning scam. Massive thumbs up to this video.
My experience is that legitimate carbon buildup usually causes a degradation of motor operation, like roughness and/or hesitation upon throttle use, so you're likely to notice it without being told. Dealer people are all on commission so they commit atrocities to build up their paychecks on your money.
Yep if you can't dream your buggered ...... mind you your looking at a old Ford Dealership Mechanic from the early 70's when it was shit easy to work on cars and have some good memories of the old easy.
John, I appreciate that you're an educated man and I usually agree with the points you make. However, on this one I'll differ. While long highway trips every so often "might" (I doubt) reduce the problem of carbon deposits in the intake on DFI cars, it isn't going to stop it. For the simple fact that, all the shit that gets recycled through the intake system (exhaust gases, crankcase vapors)...they're still there. And they're GONNA still be there, cooking on the intake valves (from the combustion heat) and forming carbon deposits. Which decrease performance (both fuel economy and acceleration). So then you PAY to get these carbon deposits removed. I've seen quotes as high as $800 US. So..how much is this new DFI technology REALLY saving you? Factor in $200-$800 every 20k miles for the carbon cleaning. Did the DFI system REALLY save you that much money in fuel compared to a port FI system? And IF it did...you're just giving that money saved away. So you're back where you started in your overall cost of vehicle ownership. Now, a COMBINED DFI and port FI system, I take my hat off to. However, unless I'm mistaken, only Toyota and Ford are currently using these. Audi has in the past on certain vehicles but I don't think they are now. Ford says that it didn't switch to a dual injection system due to all the warranty claims of intake carbon buildup on it's DFI turbo engines, it was for other reasons...riiight. At least they DID switch. You also mentioned how carbon buildup on intakes has always been an issue. Perhaps. However, in 30+ years of driving, I can't EVER seem to recall anyone stating or complaining that they had to get their intake manifolds and valves de-carboned. Unless they drove a diesel. This all seems to have only become an issue, um...with the advent of DFI systems.
This one is an excellent video, and now all that misunderstanding of how the fuel/air intake system is gone. t hadn't considered how that oil in the intake from pcv and egr would affect it the intake. If I could remove them from the equation; I would. Somebody has done it successfully and are enjoying the benefits of a cleaner air intake possibly many have done it.
Great job covering this topic! I really appreciate the high level of proper facts in your videos. One question: What's your opinion on dual injection type engines that started coming out with increased frequency recently? An example would be Ford's 1.5 Ecoboost 3 cylinder (Dragon?) engine. Is the added complexity worth it in order to mitigate the risk of carbon deposits formation and.. presumably to save you fuel? Cheers!
It is a problem. I deal with it daily at my job as an automotive service tech. I'm not sold on catch cans. I use a cleaner that I spray into the engine intake porthole on my personal car which has a direct injection engine every 15K miles. I never keep my cars for more that 5 years so I will probably never know if it helped or not. I do all of the proper maintenance that I can because I often sell my 5 year old car to a friend. I would never want to sell a friend a car that wasn't properly cared for.
And the 'fix it yourself' brigade were responsible for more problems than they ever fixed. Carburettors once set up do not need fiddling with for a very long time.
I do confess to having rebuilt a pair of 40DCOE Webers a long time ago with the help of a number of magazine articles for reference. They along with a sporty exhaust make music.
@M Bacon No, never owned a British motorcycle, had enough of them having to repair a few. Only had Japanese ones myself, as you, never had to adjust the carbs.
@william III too much anti pollution rubbish. In the countryside where i live there's no issues with air quality and yet i have to have all the complicated anti pollution bullshit which wears out mu engine prematurely and costs a fortune
I have a question, John. With the difference in fuel economy between direct injection and port injection, how far will an individual have to drive to pay for that $190 'plumbing' clean-up?
quite far, but the main problem is when the injectors go bad and you have to pay $500-1200 (at least here) per injector and then you have work on top of that. thats several years of gasoline so all the profit goes out the window
Daughter has one of them new Holden Bladerunner diesel 3.5t towing wagons. Uses it to get to work, and tow the new van when it arrives. Round trip to work for her is 6km. Her mechanic keeps reporting there is water in the oil. Her warranty claim with Holden has them claiming that she is adding water to the oil instead of the windscreen washer bottle, to which I know she isn't that silly .... but, hmmm... reasons.
Oil Temp gauges are a mightily handy thing. Maybe someone could train a computer to scream a warning to remove the need for drivers to understand how that temp gauge should assist them to give a shit about their engines. No big deal - the computers are getting 'chattier' day by day. The same jerks that simplify driving to expand their market by not fitting OT and EGT gauges etc are the same ones building vehicles no-one can actually survey their surroundings from without the aid of (distracting) cameras. Good CD and therefore consumption numbers though
As I see it the problem is these long service intervals. I know Subaru gets lots of flack for having 6 month service intervals but I think that for most people it would be the most ideal interval to get their vehicle serviced.
I had my 2013 vw gti for 7 years and 91k miles before I sold it and I never had a issue with carbon build up. I'm sure it is a problem but I don't think it's as big of a deal as people make it out to be.
Umm i delivery drive in a 2017 Mazda 3 (from 2017 till now, currently at 76k) i made a vow to get an oil change every 3k to 5k miles, not the 7.5k or whatever. No problems at all... I also throw premium cause I'm dumb. My friend said I was doing too much and he changes his oil "when he needs to".... his engine blew 3 months ago...
Dear John, iv heard about this carbon build up direct injection engines, I have a fiesta at mk8 in the UK with this fancy new 3 cylinder engine, apparently it has port and direct injection, does this help with carbon muck?
Starting a car up on a cold winters morning shows how much steam a car produces. It disappears when the exhaust gas temp gets too hot to allow the water to condense in the cold air.
I can only provide anecdotal evidence, but a friend's wife had a VW Tiguan with the 2.0t engine with 60k miles on the clock, and was having SES/CEL lights and performance issues. Over the course of a month we ran two seafoam treatment regimens though it (followed the bottle's directions), and it cured the both problems that the stealership wanted $1000 to solve; top end service to clear out the reportedly gummed up intake plumbing. I'm not going to say it is "the answer" to all ills, but even she, a notoriously mechanically unsympathetic individual, noticed immediately the improved spunkiness of the vehicle. Really it felt cured after the first treatment, but the owners decided they wanted another treatment just because, and the bottles aren't THAT expensive. YMMV IANAL No Holiday Inns were slept in recently.
Toyota has added injectors into the intake manifold on direct injection engines to eliminate the carbon buildup in the valve area. They use both sets of injectors depending on the driving you are doing.
My Toyota has the supplementary injectors going all the time now (Authorised Toyota fix) because of carbon buildup. It goes better now but fuel consumption is much worse
I've been curious about this too. As John says, the main thing people focus on when commenting on catch can 'effectiveness' is how much oil they are trapping. Presumably if the engine is working as designed then without a catch can most of that oil would go through the EGR, enter into the combustion chamber, and burn off. It's the amount that gets trapped in the intake manifold that is the problem, but nobody seems to have a good pre/post comparison (it would take a few years/tens of thousands of km to test). There also seems to be a lot of youtube videos of mechanics saying that the 'sludge' entering the engine must be a problem- but none of them ever show evidence of damage anywhere. It's all just carbon buildup on the manifold itself. Again, if the engine is working as designed then the material that enters the combustion chamber itself should combust. It's worth noting that this material should still be mostly a fluid state (gaseous or liquid) by the time it makes it to the combustion chamber too, so the potential damage that would be caused by a solid to the cylinder or pistons should be minimal. Any that gets past the piston rings into the oil... well it was largely there to begin with and the best way to deal with that risk is more frequent oil changes. Last thought- I think John's analogy to cholesterol is a good one. One of the causes of plaque buildup in arteries is turbulent flow of blood (I'm a physiologist). When blood flows smoothly (called laminar flow), its dissolved components are carried well without falling out of solution. Sharp bends and branches in the arteries naturally disrupt laminar flow- if you fish on rivers, eddies past a rock or a log are caused the same phenomenon. These disruptions produce turbulence and cause the cholesterol/fat molecules to fall out of suspension for the same reason air falls out of water solution in the river (creating bubbles in the river). I imagine the exact same phenomenon is happening in the intake manifold- its shape/structure has a number of twists and turns that would create turbulence in the air flow. Those would be most noticeable at any 90 degree (or greater) bends in the tube, and at the 90-degree turns from the common rail into each cylinder port. A gaseous/air mixture including heavy droplets of oil mist would be most likely to lose those droplets at those sharp turns that disrupt the flow of air. Once they accumulate on the internal surface of the manifold is when they would start to 'dry' and cook into more of a soot. On that line of thinking, it's interesting that nobody seems to report soot/carbon buildup in the EGR pipe/hose itself, or within the hoses of the catch cans. I suspect this is for 2 reasons: 1) the airflow is still fairly laminar if there are no tight turns so the oil droplets don't fall out of suspension, and 2) the temperature, pressure, and rate of flow are such that there is never an opportunity for any droplets to stay in one place. There's a third possibility- in vehicles I've looked at, the internal volume of the common rail is larger than the EGR pipe, and once a gas moves at high pressure into a space of larger volume it will drop in pressure and reduce in velocity at the same time- and both of these events also present an opportunity for any suspended oil droplets to fall out of suspension. Happy to be corrected by anyone who knows better, but this is my suspicion so far. I only know enough fluid mechanics to understand how it impacts on blood, but the basic principles are universal to fluids.
Sorry- 2 more thoughts The manifold cleaning itself seems a pretty minor thing even though it looks invasive/time intensive. The quotes I've seen online are typically around $500-1000 Australian and most people doing it at home say it takes about 5 hours if you know what you're doing (soaking time for the manifold aside). Given that most people are only doing it once every 50,000 km at most it's not that terrible a maintenance cost, especially since there isn't any clear evidence of the carbon itself causing damage- I bet most of the damage people do associate with it has more to do with the engine oil going bad/being too old because they haven't done a good job of maintaining the other aspects of the vehicle. Of course a choked engine must be frustrating if an entire port gets clogged up, but it's also a very easy fix that is more an inconvenience than anything life-threatening. It is pretty amazing how ubiquitously this issue is used to justify catch cans, EGR blocking plates, and EGR valve bypasses! It's almost as bad as the alternative medicine industry- possibly worse when you consider that the blocking plates and valve bypasses are illegal and can get you a hefty fine if it's ever found out. Buying a used diesel you'd also want to be VERY careful to ask the seller if they had installed this stuff too. It doesn't look like any of these installations harm the vehicle in any way, and they certainly could help improve performance, but you wouldn't want to get caught with a fine for something you hadn't done yourself!
I'm still blown away when my Toyota Tacoma runs up 6,000 rpm before shifting in a few milliseconds. No "muscle car" would match this. I recall carburetorated engines barely being able to run at 3,000 meters.
@@Ozgrade3 Here there are roads reaching 3200 meters. I remember a VW that couldn't make it over a 3100 meter pass in Yosemite. On the bright side,he could coast all the way down to Lee Vining.
I paid attention to this and made sure my new car had the old school injection system. And I still get around 23 km per liter, so I dont see the advantage of GDI.
always love listening to these tradies, but also i'd be very fascinated to know how they'd react if their heart surgeon, for example, used sarcasm to diagnose a serious health issue?
The basic problem is all those people who got 200,000 or even 300,000 trouble free km from their SV21 camry now have this expectation of any newer car.
did that with an ecotec quite some years ago now...bought s/h with 160k,then sold it to the wrecker man with 340k..bare bones maintenance all the way..engine was the only good thing left...the interior,elecs & body were not so lucky
@@groundcontroltomajornong8085 Yes, I was being conservative. One of the Camry made it to 400,000 and the other sitting at 360,000 not out. But for example the alternator brushes on all 3 die every 220,000 ish. Which I don't think is in the maintenance schedule.
Do they expect it from Toyotas? The 2006-09 V6 Camry aka Aurion was a joke. Not one, but two defective oil lines. Did Toyota Australia ever recall the cars and fix free of charge like Toyota USA did? No, Toyota proved they are scum like every other manufacturer.
Don't cheap out on oil. low SAPS oil mitigates the problem. The twincharged handgrenade in my Golf oiled up the intake (probably due to the insane crankcase breather system) and the MAP sensor got it's knickers in a knot. Cleaned the sensor with MAF sensor and the intake with intake clean (there goes the neighbourhood) and it's ok until the next time. I, for one, am glad my wife's 86 has D4-S.
I once worked with a guy that would constantly switch from full throttle to zero throttle on the highway, literally every few seconds. Not a pleasant ride, but he claimed it prevents EGR gas recirculation, thus reducing intake carbon build up in deisel engines. Is there any truth in that?
How about to use a spray of such product as CRC GDI Service Kit in lieu of the (industrial) walnut blasting kit on Amazon? I understand that there might be an issue with the PCV system and or diaphragm on the valve cover on my 2012 Volvo S60 T4 with the B16T4 (Ford Europe engine) as I’ve had oil leaks from the VVT solenoids. The damper oil retainer is waiting to be replaced to replenish my wallet. But the blow by test on the oil fill passed ok!
with engine off, i decided to clean my valves. I closed the valve manually and picked the big chunks off. I got most of it and then decided to spray the GDI intake cleaner from CRC to let it soak. My valve wasn't fully closed. My engine hasn't been started. My question is two part. Should I simply spray a bunch more to get it down the walls into the oil and change oil? Should I let it dry out before starting the car and then run it through intake? Any advice is helpful if it is helpful advice.
@@saulgoodman124 i took a straw and shop vac and blew it out from the spark plug out the intake and then let it dry and then did shop vac again but this time I sucked up any large chunks that may have been left down there. I checked with boroscope and didn't see anything worth stressing off. Most of the carbon was wet and not hardened so it would burn off either way. But that's one way. I figured cleaning combustion chamber is basically doing a cleaner and then forcing it down piston walls so as long as you do oil change and no hard carbon is left, it should be fine
Catch cans can help here. Spray cans of cleaner can also help. The only way to properly clean the intake system is paying for a professional chemical clean (big expensive machine hooked up to your car). That is unless you want to pull everything apart and soak it in solvent or something. I believe the recommendation is about every 50,000km for modern diesel engines.
Auto Expert John Cadogan Indeed. it’s an interesting phenomenon. Not that people check their oil. But if they did, in the cases you described they would be happy they magically have “extra oil”, only for it to disappear after a highway drive 😂
I run baffled oil catch cans mostly because I live a mile away from work in upstate NY where we get a lot of cold weather. I walk most of the time but in the winter the weather is too crappy for that. I have to dump them every other week of nastiness that would have otherwise gone into my intake. Dealers will tell you they are a waste of time, because dealers want to charge to clean your intake ports. If you feel like getting dirty, lacquer thinner takes carbon off intake ports really easily. Getting to them is the hard part.
John, is there a vehicle out there, that does cope with the short stop start travels. Not interested in electric cars as I don’t see them as currently a viable option.
Focus Mk1 1.4l NA : 6l/100km - port injection Focus Mk4 1.5l T : 5.5l/100km - port and direct injection Tested over 1 tank of fuel same commute to work in direct succession. Hardly half the fuel consumption. And if you have to waste fuel on the highway to keep the valves cleaner and get them cleaned eventually anyway, there goes your money saved on fuel....
verb (used with or without object), a·mel·io·rat·ed, a·mel·io·rat·ing. to make or become better, more bearable, or more satisfactory; improve: strategies to ameliorate negative effects on the environment. great word. Couldn't spell it or pronounce it. I get 2 years before an oil change. Just drive a car that leaks roughly enough to top up every 3 months that's 4 litres a year. Oil change once a y
An engine sump can fill up with water from the atmosphere too. As the engine cools down in sucks in fresh air which can contain a fair amount of water that condenses in the sump.
The carby mate, gotta love the carby mate! Quick John spray the 20-20 FO and clean up with Dick Head Pro. I for one am glad they did away with them. Oh sure it gave the weekend mechanic something to do, playing with them and cleaning them etc.. Probably because we had some dirty fuel back in the early 80's (or perhaps that varied from place to place and it was only me and a few of my friends). Anyway it's something I don't miss, but I do have a question John. Why didn't they, manufacturers, move away from the carburettor and direct injection sooner? I mean, as far as I can see,
An oil air separator is a good start to curing the problem. And why don’t the manufacturers fit them? Money! Any cost that can be cut is never out of the question with bean counters even when it comes to the safety and reliability of their products, as long as it doesn’t immediately bite them in the ass or at least not get caught out for it nothing is taboo. So a properly designed oil air separator on the pcv system and a filtered and properly cooled EGR system would solve the problem but fitting such things might cost an extra 0.00001% in production costs which if they can get away with not spending will net them an extra million dollar bonus come Christmas.
Well, if that's the reason they don't factory install it, they should at least offer to install it by their service department without loosing the warranty. People (byers) who are aware of this design problem will be willing to pay extra for the installation of catch can and car company would make even more profits. But I talked to my local Hyundai dealer and asked if I buy a brand new i30 N-line can they install one for me if I pay extra. The answer was NO. He mentioned something about the risk for the turbo system. If I install it on my own I am losing the warranty. So after 5 years when the car runs out of the warranty and by then intake gets clogged (including the turbo blades), I can do it. First I would have to pay a big bill for the mechanical cleanup with the risk of damaging something else. I found the solution. I did not buy a brand new i30 N-line. I kept my 10 year old Toyota Aurion with the old port injector 3.5 litre naturally aspirated engine. Yes it is about 3 L/100km more fuel consumption but it still goes like in old days. Plus I don't need to go on a highway and burn the fuel for nothing to keep the valves clean. And when I go on a cruise trip the ride is more comfortable than most small direct injection engine cars.
@@beograd07 . The reason they won’t offer it and won’t allow it to be fitted is liability. If they offer it as an option or allow you to fit one aftermarket then they are admitting to a design flaw. If they admit to a design flaw then they are on the hook for repairs to every engine and fitting a catch can also and that is far more expensive than just fitting one in the first place.
@@anomamos9095 I see your point. I think you are right. Any cost for a long term problem in design is paid by customer and seller reputation damage is outweighed by the profit this design problem can bring. I don't think engineers are to blame as they have to design products these bean counters require from them. It is very disappointing to get a much better designed car as John mentioned, with lower fuel economy, smaller engine but more power, environmentally friendlier and it needs just a small step to be much more reliable and durable but the profit rule doesn't allow it.
Love your videos John but I think it'd be better if you provided a bit more guidance for us regular fools out here. Like should Frank have stumped up the money or should he have told the dealer that because of how the engine is designed, this should be covered by warranty? Or is there a cleaner of sorts that can alleviate this issue for the bulk of us that only drive in-town and rarely get above 60km/h? Please provide more solutions ;)
My imported Toyota has a direct injection 3GR V6. I was a little worried about carbon build up on the intake valves. There are lots of RUclipsrs recommending oil catch cans for this, apart from our Johnny boy here. I had my engine checked and it was dry with no sludge, so I didn't need a catch can. Who knew Toyota knows how to make an engine, direct injection one at that.
@@kris8742 True, but not the 3GR-FSE. The 3.5L 2GR usually does have port and direct, D4-S in Toyota speak. 3GR-FSE is D4 direct injection only to my knowledge.
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Good one John, British Expat living in Thailand, ex mechanic, still remember as a snot nose apprentice 50 years ago having to decarbonise cylinder heads and grind valves, no one does this now,car drivers have never had it so good, love your show, keep the good work up.
My first car, a Ford Pop 100E had instructions for decarbonising the head in the owners handbook in that section where they now explain how to change a tire or light globe.
... Greetings from Nong Khai. Where are you located ?
John, you have given one of the best explanations of carbon buildup in modern GDI engines and how to prevent, or at least, mitigate it. Highway diving also burns off any excess gas (petrol) in the oil that leads to oil dilution due to blow by and short drives.
Yes EGR, a diesel mechanics most reliable source of engine warning lights.
Subaru have included inlet manifold cleaner in their servicing for at least 20 years due to the boxer engine having longer inlet tracts. An aerosol foam is sprayed into a vacuum port on the manifold with the engine hot. This does coat the inlet including the valves. The engine is then started and run at high rpm while you pump the rest of the can in. Whatever is in the can is potent, it will strip the two pack paint off the workshop floor, nothing else touches it. $20 A can from Subaru, it might be worth a try if you have a manky manifold.
Quite a few Mechanic mates recommend this stuff. One has a "special spot" where tney do it, as the concrete is already stained lol!
The Subaru upper engine cleaner is a brilliant product. I started working on Subaru's in 94 and we were using it then on all EFI models. It was also great as a penetrating lubricant for the stubborn turbo bolts on older RS liberty's. Nulon also sell the same product and I use it in our GDI cars every service.
@@matthewrafferty4117 Did you ever loose the straw off the end? My apprentice did, it got sucked in, rattled past the inlet valve and we could smell it burning on that catalytic converter, no lasting damage thankfully.😂
@Andrew H i do. I give mine the upper engine cleaner, a dose of oil flush into the oil, dump that oil and refill, give it a drive around for a few minutes then dump and refill the oil and filter again.
@Andrew H It would normally be done during the service before dropping the oil, so yes an oil change after.
the thing is that the "savings" in fuel are well spent in cleaning the problem created by direct injection.
There are fairly inexpensive aftermarket canisters that can be installed to eliminate the issue. Matter of time before manufacturers build this into their products.
@@laner989 as far as i know, that canister lessens the problem, it does not solve it.
@@laner989 Mazda has been doing it for years. My 2014 M6 has an oem air/oil separator and it appears to not be an issue on some higher mileage skyactiv engines so far.
The term "Italian tune-up" has been around for as long as I can remember and I'm older then the main stream use of fuel injection.
I always called it a "Maori tune up " , same thing except they are heavier.
@@spooner0007 Called the Turin tune up here.
Doesn't help, trust me. I live in northern Germany in Lübeck and here we have quite a stretch of unlimited autobahn around. My Mazda 6 mps receives quite often the italian tune up and the oil is changed every 8000km with every 3 oil changes comes also an engine flushing. Still I have to do every two years the intake valves clean up if I want my car to run in tip-top conditions even at 250 km/h and not blow itself up zoom zoom banging.
Oil catch can is the way to go with direct injected engines, empty that can every two weeks and you're good to go. If you're a hardcore gearknob then install water-meth injection in the intake and it's all good, you have more power and the valves will stay clean.
@B. Toff , last time I checked Mazda 6 mps was a limited series built in Hiroshima between 2006 and 2007 having as a base block a co-developed duratec engine with ford and the rest is Mazda. Yes, it's direct injection and turbo-charged, it's the predecesor of the 2.3 ecoboost engine that Ford has now and has refined it.
So, yeah, it's JDM allright... that's why she rusts like there's no tomorrow, like almost all jdm cars.
@@eEnzo0 idk dude I have a shit box honda civic 1.4 non v tech base model from '02 and its spotless on the bottom. One fender starts going but on the important bits it's fine.
I love the thought and contemplating before deciding Dipships is an appropriate name.
My wife has complained about the lawnmower being unresposive as well...
I will get round it tomorrow or the weekend..........
LOL
it’s funny because modern engine mowers are increasingly featuring EFI.
@@GeeeAus from a very very low base.
100% true. Highway driving is great for vehicles. I know the jury is still out on catch cans but I ended up fitting one to my ranger and its done a great job. I used a borescope just to check the intake manifold and after 100,000 Kms is remarkably clean.
Surprise! I wasn't expecting this. How lovely.
Wow, this is the best explanation of how this all works and why!
I'm starting to do oil changes every 5k on my new (2nd hand) 1.6l turbo 2020 seltos. I had 2 diesel 2.2l motors die on my old 2009 mazda6 and didnt fully understand why.
Than you so much!👍🤠🇦🇺
Thank you for the video John. Looking healthy.
Thank you very much John for all your thoroughly detailed and explanatory videos! You make us all wiser with each of them! Keep up the great work and greetings from Greece!
Many new car are eliminating this problem by adding an injector in the intake manifold. It helps wash the vale’s with fuel and prevents buildup.
I've watched a video here about that few years ago about turbo cars. I am driving a Santa Fe 2019 with the 2.0L Turbo. I just change my oil every time i change my tyres for Winter or Summer unless i do more than 6K between these times. Easy to remind, haven't got any issue there. When you spend that kind of money on a car, just put enough money to maintain it in good shape... It's part of the owning cost.
My DPF light has come on twice in the last 2 weeks, after having my Navara for 3 years averaging 40min drive to work and home, and now it's 10 mins to and 20 mins home from work. Catch can is working a treat though. Need to blow the cobwebs out of it once a week now..........apparently.....
Another informative vid....
I am disappointed that you weren't disappointed that you couldn't diagnose whether Frank should or shouldn't believe that he traveled to Sale, Victoria in FEB 2020.
I'm disappointed you pointed that out...
Just to what Toyota does and give it both port and direct. Problem solved.
VW, Ford (among others) also do this
Really solve the problem instead of the symtom...remove exhaust recirculation system.
@R J yes I mentioned that
@@ramsey6684 Can't really do that as a car company unless you want your new model to be banned in half the world because of emission standards.
I've seen the intake and inlet ports of such an engine and I wasn't impressed.
EGR is such a superfluous addition to modern engines. It causes as many problems as it solves and just costs loads of money.
Build up does happen on the valves of a direct injection engine. My wife’s 2011 VW Tiguan 2.0 L TDI engine at 98,000 miles started to get cold start misfires. I knew what it was as soon as it happened took the vehicle into the dealership and $700 later and six hours of labor the valves have been cleaned. I got to look at the valves before they started the cleaning and they were very very built up with carbon. I looked at doing the job myself and I didn’t really want to spend 6 to 7 hours and all you have to go through on that particular engine to get the intake manifold off. On this engine it takes two hours to get it off and two hours to get it back on and the cleaning in between. after watching some videos I decided not to take it on myself.
Think I remember reading an article somewhere that talked about the best setup being a combination of both direct and indirect fuel injection
and under different circumstances each system offers more power
so to combine the two gets the best of both worlds and for the portion of time the indirect injectors are running it cleans the valves......
not bad.....
Toyota has the dynamic force engines (I think that's what it's called), that has both direct and port injections. So does the new Ford focus.
The Wholls that’s what Toyota does
@@lozza2272 So does my SEAT 2.0 TSi 190... in fact all VAG engines Gen 3b with Budack cycle. www.automobilemag.com/news/inside-volkswagen-ea888-b-cycle-2-0-tsi-i4/
Great explanation of how PCV and EGR impacts the combustion chamber, thanks John.
Talking about oil contamination/ water etc, you should do a tech talk on E85 based fuels. Holden experimented with this but it never caught on in Straya except for the performance enthusiast market.
Didn’t we used to use Redex for this kind of stuff? Weekends in the suburbs were once clouds of light grey smoke rising from push rod sixes. Let’s return to the good old days !
Let's not. They weren't that good.
I actually still use, absolutely routinely - i.e. every fuel fill, cause I'm a full to empty tanker, ( petrol or dis-easel ) a fuel additive, namely Moreys Upper Cyclinder Additive of which is an injector cleaner as well..... I used a couple of different brands over 30 odd years of driving but have decided that i like the Moreys one best.
I bought a well kept 2nd hand car at 21 years of age & did a compression test at purchase & then did another compression test 5 years later & the engine had better compression at the 5 year mark.
I can but only "assume" that the U.C.L cleaned & lubed, as it purports to do so, the compression rings & - in theory, only possibly the inlet valves ( on a carbu'ratted engine...) But i did have the carb fully reco'd & ran a Bosch GT40 coil - big monster spark - as was witnessed on a exhaust gas analyzer - it leaned out massively on idle in comparison to the old original O.E.M coil.
+ as stated, the "Italian tune up" still works wonders & is very much so applicable more than ever due to slower motorway/ hiway speeds due to traffic congestion...
My N.Z. new 2010 Toyota HiAce doesn't have a D.P.F from new - only became mandatory in 2015 in "Sheep Shaggistan" (N.Z.) & I'm so very very glad of that fact.... But none the less they're on the vehicles for perfectly understandable reasons.... But even the "Ace" will respond to an "Italian tune" - for those of us who know/remember the "exhaust pipe colour" tell tale - not quite the same colour as was had with leaded fuel, rather just a darker tinge, unlike what hair that does remain on my head.....
Any other users of fuel additives or U.C.L's out there at all????
@@somerandomgoogleuser3374 yeah mate same here been using moreys for 30+ years it does work I often wonder if the injector ( power booster) kit would work on those direct inj engines 😃👍
@@barneybetelgeuse6273 Yea na, meaning no!!!! I've had two mates who had them when we were younger guys into Carburetors on Ford V8's & they didn't seem to work - you mean the constant drip type of set up?? Is that what the "Power Booster" system is/ was?? - from memory??? A dripalator system??? I'm talking about my mates using them about 25-30 years ago....
I've tried "Fyrex" fuel additive but have gone back to Moreys U.C.L., i believe it looks after the compression rings better.
I proved it worked with the compression test....absolutely for sure.... + meticulous oil changes & vehicle servicing/maintenance... Simple shiv really.
I look after them & they look after me ( with reliability + they're, mostly (4) Toyota's - pre 2010 stuff....
Nice to hear of another Moreys user!!!
I heard of a guy running Castor oil ( for it's light weightiness) in his carburetored Wizz Bang lawn mower - otherwise know as a Rotary!!!
One of the dealer tricks is to ring the customer during the service and hit then with we recommend X be done. They do this to catch you off guard, hoping you're preoccupied or busy at work and will say yes ok. It's all worked out.
This can include valve clean, they spray or say they did a can of $20 magic and bill to you $ 230 but as a gesture (jesture) of goodwill because you're getting your car serviced $190. It's often not needed.
love your logic, and as we know, you can't argue against logic
Direct injection is one of the few automotive terms that is a clear description of what it is,
Like drive by wire, sounds like a Tesla thats being driven by the internet even tho it just means a sensor reads your right foot position rather then the pedal being connected by a metal cable to the intake
Push a can of CRC intake cleaner through a vaccum line at 2000rpm,
Let car sit for an hour
Take it for an Italian tune up
Repeat if necessary
Ha, Italian tune up, haven't heard that in ages
I've done that every change on my Honda EarthDream since 2015, and it seems to do the trick. Although, no one on the forum has reporting carbon buildup on these engines so maybe it's Honda's voodoo magic?
I'd like to thank the goofs who designed these engines and the goofs who drive them for keeping me in a job repairing them.
I had a 21 year old carb motorcycle for over a year and I didn't die, therefore carbs are better. Q.E.D.
What's your opinion on EGR deletes/unplugging it?
Hello john, what do you think of gdi intake valve cleaners like CRC gdi cleaner that you spray directly to the inlet system . I am worried that loosened carbon chunks could damage pistons, turbo and catalytic converter .
Love your stuff. Thank you. I'd sure love to someday share a pitcher of beer and a bowl of pretzels with you, however unlikely that is. Be well and thanks for your stuff.
Another thing people don’t realize it that auto manufacturers are in the business of making cars - if their products don’t break and wear out regularly, the business won’t survive very long.
To help with intake valve coking, Air-oil separators/catch cans work, but so does water injected into the intake. Those together with a good hour-long jaunt weekly at highway speeds will keep an internal combustion engine “clean”.
A great argument for all-electric vehicles.
Thanks for explaining it because I thought too that this was caused by direct injection. I will be less afraid of it for my next truck!
Ah the old "semi controlled fuel leak" aka carburetor.
Wood wind instrument.
Good ones are great,
There are no good ones
Video is all correct. Changebyour oil regularly. There will be build up after 10k but it won't be enough to affect anything. Every 50k miles get a mechanical cleaning with walnut blasting or DIY with a bunch of cable ties shoved down a drill. Sea Foam or similar are useless and another car cleaning scam. Massive thumbs up to this video.
As a doctor, I loved the atherosclerosis analogy!
Bad PCV system:
The Alloytech engine has entered the chat.
Lol...
Same for bmw.. Mercedes...subaru...
Holden...they are all crap!
The old timing chain stretching system oh yes well done.......🤒
@@jasoncee666 Sometimes it's important to stretch... this isn't one of those times.
LOL!
My mate ve commodore sv6 went through 4 engines in a year coz of timing chains and other issues
My experience is that legitimate carbon buildup usually causes a degradation of motor operation, like roughness and/or hesitation upon throttle use, so you're likely to notice it without being told. Dealer people are all on commission so they commit atrocities to build up their paychecks on your money.
It's only a combination of both GDI an port injection that works and gives the now worries sort of care free motoring we had before in times gone by.
That's a fantasy.
Yep if you can't dream your buggered ...... mind you your looking at a old Ford Dealership Mechanic from the early 70's when it was shit easy to work on cars and have some good memories of the old easy.
Yes, service the Falcon while wearing the Sunday best. Easy as!.
Best explanation ever
John, I appreciate that you're an educated man and I usually agree with the points you make. However, on this one I'll differ. While long highway trips every so often "might" (I doubt) reduce the problem of carbon deposits in the intake on DFI cars, it isn't going to stop it. For the simple fact that, all the shit that gets recycled through the intake system (exhaust gases, crankcase vapors)...they're still there. And they're GONNA still be there, cooking on the intake valves (from the combustion heat) and forming carbon deposits. Which decrease performance (both fuel economy and acceleration). So then you PAY to get these carbon deposits removed. I've seen quotes as high as $800 US. So..how much is this new DFI technology REALLY saving you? Factor in $200-$800 every 20k miles for the carbon cleaning. Did the DFI system REALLY save you that much money in fuel compared to a port FI system? And IF it did...you're just giving that money saved away. So you're back where you started in your overall cost of vehicle ownership. Now, a COMBINED DFI and port FI system, I take my hat off to. However, unless I'm mistaken, only Toyota and Ford are currently using these. Audi has in the past on certain vehicles but I don't think they are now. Ford says that it didn't switch to a dual injection system due to all the warranty claims of intake carbon buildup on it's DFI turbo engines, it was for other reasons...riiight. At least they DID switch.
You also mentioned how carbon buildup on intakes has always been an issue. Perhaps. However, in 30+ years of driving, I can't EVER seem to recall anyone stating or complaining that they had to get their intake manifolds and valves de-carboned. Unless they drove a diesel. This all seems to have only become an issue, um...with the advent of DFI systems.
Is this consistent with the last time you discussed intake carbonisation? Could you compare please?
This one is an excellent video, and now all that misunderstanding of how the fuel/air intake system is gone. t hadn't considered how that oil in the intake from pcv and egr would affect it the intake. If I could remove them from the equation; I would. Somebody has done it successfully and are enjoying the benefits of a cleaner air intake possibly many have done it.
Great job covering this topic! I really appreciate the high level of proper facts in your videos. One question: What's your opinion on dual injection type engines that started coming out with increased frequency recently? An example would be Ford's 1.5 Ecoboost 3 cylinder (Dragon?) engine. Is the added complexity worth it in order to mitigate the risk of carbon deposits formation and.. presumably to save you fuel? Cheers!
what about carbon cleaner that you spray into your inlet system,such as seafoa
m or crc carbon cleaner.whats your thoughts.
The good news of the day is the new music of the ACDC, in addition to being alive, they are in good shape!
@pete smyth well, FOUR of then missing in the last tour?
Another great analysis John, of how it all works🙃👍👍
Thanks, Steve.
@@AutoExpertJC You're welcome my friend.🙂
Pure fact, someone has to say it.
Thanks very much.
That explains my girl's oily inlet tract issues... gotta take her for a long run to clear up the plumbing. 🤣😋
Can you last that long?
If you are worried about the oily inlet I guess the exhaust is out of the question!
I'm more scared by the cost of replacing the high pressure parts of a DI system when they will fail than carbon build-ups.
its one more fuel pump......and it could last the life of the car
It is a problem. I deal with it daily at my job as an automotive service tech. I'm not sold on catch cans. I use a cleaner that I spray into the engine intake porthole on my personal car which has a direct injection engine every 15K miles. I never keep my cars for more that 5 years so I will probably never know if it helped or not. I do all of the proper maintenance that I can because I often sell my 5 year old car to a friend. I would never want to sell a friend a car that wasn't properly cared for.
John you are spot on Espically on the people who bitch about everything, yet I don't see them becoming engineering pros to fix the world.
The thing that made the carburetor great was that... You, if so inclined, could fix or service it yourself, using simple inexpensive tools.
And the 'fix it yourself' brigade were responsible for more problems than they ever fixed. Carburettors once set up do not need fiddling with for a very long time.
I heard many years ago that "carburettor" is a French word meaning "don't F##k about with"
I do confess to having rebuilt a pair of 40DCOE Webers a long time ago with the help of a number of magazine articles for reference. They along with a sporty exhaust make music.
@M Bacon No, never owned a British motorcycle, had enough of them having to repair a few. Only had Japanese ones myself, as you, never had to adjust the carbs.
The big problem is car dealers convincing urbanites that they need a diesel car
@william III no loss. Modern diesels have become a joke. Too highly strung and unreliable
@william III too much anti pollution rubbish. In the countryside where i live there's no issues with air quality and yet i have to have all the complicated anti pollution bullshit which wears out mu engine prematurely and costs a fortune
I have a question, John. With the difference in fuel economy between direct injection and port injection, how far will an individual have to drive to pay for that $190 'plumbing' clean-up?
quite far, but the main problem is when the injectors go bad and you have to pay $500-1200 (at least here) per injector and then you have work on top of that. thats several years of gasoline so all the profit goes out the window
Small correction. PCVs have been round since the 60s
Daughter has one of them new Holden Bladerunner diesel 3.5t towing wagons. Uses it to get to work, and tow the new van when it arrives. Round trip to work for her is 6km. Her mechanic keeps reporting there is water in the oil. Her warranty claim with Holden has them claiming that she is adding water to the oil instead of the windscreen washer bottle, to which I know she isn't that silly .... but, hmmm... reasons.
Oil Temp gauges are a mightily handy thing. Maybe someone could train a computer to scream a warning to remove the need for drivers to understand how that temp gauge should assist them to give a shit about their engines. No big deal - the computers are getting 'chattier' day by day.
The same jerks that simplify driving to expand their market by not fitting OT and EGT gauges etc are the same ones building vehicles no-one can actually survey their surroundings from without the aid of (distracting) cameras. Good CD and therefore consumption numbers though
As I see it the problem is these long service intervals. I know Subaru gets lots of flack for having 6 month service intervals but I think that for most people it would be the most ideal interval to get their vehicle serviced.
I had my 2013 vw gti for 7 years and 91k miles before I sold it and I never had a issue with carbon build up. I'm sure it is a problem but I don't think it's as big of a deal as people make it out to be.
Loved the vid. Please keep them coming.
Will you do more political commentary, or will that be limited to your other channel?
As my mechanic says; "5 litres of Oil every 7k is cheaper than a new engine, or a terdown/clean/rebuild."
I hope that K is thousands and not kilometres.
6.3lt every 5k for alloytec...& blow out pin holes in PCV while at it
@@groundcontroltomajornong8085 1/2 litre oil at 8k kms oil changes on my Focus ST 2007 (xr5 for Aussie fpv communists ! )
Umm i delivery drive in a 2017 Mazda 3 (from 2017 till now, currently at 76k) i made a vow to get an oil change every 3k to 5k miles, not the 7.5k or whatever. No problems at all... I also throw premium cause I'm dumb.
My friend said I was doing too much and he changes his oil "when he needs to".... his engine blew 3 months ago...
@@77gravity Yes.
Kocham pana, panie Sułku ;-)
Dear John, iv heard about this carbon build up direct injection engines, I have a fiesta at mk8 in the UK with this fancy new 3 cylinder engine, apparently it has port and direct injection, does this help with carbon muck?
Great content. Very informative.
Starting a car up on a cold winters morning shows how much steam a car produces. It disappears when the exhaust gas temp gets too hot to allow the water to condense in the cold air.
Hey john when are you reviewing the I20N? Chasing Cars, Cars Guide, Which Car have all posted today
I can only provide anecdotal evidence, but a friend's wife had a VW Tiguan with the 2.0t engine with 60k miles on the clock, and was having SES/CEL lights and performance issues. Over the course of a month we ran two seafoam treatment regimens though it (followed the bottle's directions), and it cured the both problems that the stealership wanted $1000 to solve; top end service to clear out the reportedly gummed up intake plumbing. I'm not going to say it is "the answer" to all ills, but even she, a notoriously mechanically unsympathetic individual, noticed immediately the improved spunkiness of the vehicle. Really it felt cured after the first treatment, but the owners decided they wanted another treatment just because, and the bottles aren't THAT expensive. YMMV IANAL No Holiday Inns were slept in recently.
Toyota has added injectors into the intake manifold on direct injection engines to eliminate the carbon buildup in the valve area. They use both sets of injectors depending on the driving you are doing.
My Toyota has the supplementary injectors going all the time now (Authorised Toyota fix) because of carbon buildup. It goes better now but fuel consumption is much worse
Is there any research that shows if catch cans are actually effective at reducing carbon deposits in diesels?
I've been curious about this too. As John says, the main thing people focus on when commenting on catch can 'effectiveness' is how much oil they are trapping. Presumably if the engine is working as designed then without a catch can most of that oil would go through the EGR, enter into the combustion chamber, and burn off. It's the amount that gets trapped in the intake manifold that is the problem, but nobody seems to have a good pre/post comparison (it would take a few years/tens of thousands of km to test).
There also seems to be a lot of youtube videos of mechanics saying that the 'sludge' entering the engine must be a problem- but none of them ever show evidence of damage anywhere. It's all just carbon buildup on the manifold itself. Again, if the engine is working as designed then the material that enters the combustion chamber itself should combust. It's worth noting that this material should still be mostly a fluid state (gaseous or liquid) by the time it makes it to the combustion chamber too, so the potential damage that would be caused by a solid to the cylinder or pistons should be minimal. Any that gets past the piston rings into the oil... well it was largely there to begin with and the best way to deal with that risk is more frequent oil changes.
Last thought- I think John's analogy to cholesterol is a good one. One of the causes of plaque buildup in arteries is turbulent flow of blood (I'm a physiologist). When blood flows smoothly (called laminar flow), its dissolved components are carried well without falling out of solution. Sharp bends and branches in the arteries naturally disrupt laminar flow- if you fish on rivers, eddies past a rock or a log are caused the same phenomenon. These disruptions produce turbulence and cause the cholesterol/fat molecules to fall out of suspension for the same reason air falls out of water solution in the river (creating bubbles in the river). I imagine the exact same phenomenon is happening in the intake manifold- its shape/structure has a number of twists and turns that would create turbulence in the air flow. Those would be most noticeable at any 90 degree (or greater) bends in the tube, and at the 90-degree turns from the common rail into each cylinder port. A gaseous/air mixture including heavy droplets of oil mist would be most likely to lose those droplets at those sharp turns that disrupt the flow of air. Once they accumulate on the internal surface of the manifold is when they would start to 'dry' and cook into more of a soot.
On that line of thinking, it's interesting that nobody seems to report soot/carbon buildup in the EGR pipe/hose itself, or within the hoses of the catch cans. I suspect this is for 2 reasons: 1) the airflow is still fairly laminar if there are no tight turns so the oil droplets don't fall out of suspension, and 2) the temperature, pressure, and rate of flow are such that there is never an opportunity for any droplets to stay in one place. There's a third possibility- in vehicles I've looked at, the internal volume of the common rail is larger than the EGR pipe, and once a gas moves at high pressure into a space of larger volume it will drop in pressure and reduce in velocity at the same time- and both of these events also present an opportunity for any suspended oil droplets to fall out of suspension.
Happy to be corrected by anyone who knows better, but this is my suspicion so far. I only know enough fluid mechanics to understand how it impacts on blood, but the basic principles are universal to fluids.
Sorry- 2 more thoughts
The manifold cleaning itself seems a pretty minor thing even though it looks invasive/time intensive. The quotes I've seen online are typically around $500-1000 Australian and most people doing it at home say it takes about 5 hours if you know what you're doing (soaking time for the manifold aside). Given that most people are only doing it once every 50,000 km at most it's not that terrible a maintenance cost, especially since there isn't any clear evidence of the carbon itself causing damage- I bet most of the damage people do associate with it has more to do with the engine oil going bad/being too old because they haven't done a good job of maintaining the other aspects of the vehicle. Of course a choked engine must be frustrating if an entire port gets clogged up, but it's also a very easy fix that is more an inconvenience than anything life-threatening.
It is pretty amazing how ubiquitously this issue is used to justify catch cans, EGR blocking plates, and EGR valve bypasses! It's almost as bad as the alternative medicine industry- possibly worse when you consider that the blocking plates and valve bypasses are illegal and can get you a hefty fine if it's ever found out. Buying a used diesel you'd also want to be VERY careful to ask the seller if they had installed this stuff too. It doesn't look like any of these installations harm the vehicle in any way, and they certainly could help improve performance, but you wouldn't want to get caught with a fine for something you hadn't done yourself!
@@juvandy EGR block offs are only rivaled by DPF deletes on the forums I follow. I don’t understand the logic for that either.
Some manufacturers are now fitting an additional inlet port injector to reduce the build up of carbon deposits.
I'm still blown away when my Toyota Tacoma runs up 6,000 rpm before shifting in a few milliseconds. No "muscle car" would match this. I recall carburetorated engines barely being able to run at 3,000 meters.
Most of my aircraft have carburettors, they quite happily climb to 14,000 feet.
@@Ozgrade3 Here there are roads reaching 3200 meters. I remember a VW that couldn't make it over a 3100 meter pass in Yosemite. On the bright side,he could coast all the way down to Lee Vining.
I paid attention to this and made sure my new car had the old school injection system. And I still get around 23 km per liter, so I dont see the advantage of GDI.
always love listening to these tradies, but also i'd be very fascinated to know how they'd react if their heart surgeon, for example, used sarcasm to diagnose a serious health issue?
The basic problem is all those people who got 200,000 or even 300,000 trouble free km from their SV21 camry now have this expectation of any newer car.
Some maintenance is to be expected...
Intake manifold off != maintenance. Unless they want to put it in the service schedule. :-).
did that with an ecotec quite some years ago now...bought s/h with 160k,then sold it to the wrecker man with 340k..bare bones maintenance all the way..engine was
the only good thing left...the interior,elecs & body were not so lucky
@@groundcontroltomajornong8085 Yes, I was being conservative. One of the Camry made it to 400,000 and the other sitting at 360,000 not out. But for example the alternator brushes on all 3 die every 220,000 ish. Which I don't think is in the maintenance schedule.
Do they expect it from Toyotas? The 2006-09 V6 Camry aka Aurion was a joke. Not one, but two defective oil lines. Did Toyota Australia ever recall the cars and fix free of charge like Toyota USA did? No, Toyota proved they are scum like every other manufacturer.
Don't cheap out on oil. low SAPS oil mitigates the problem. The twincharged handgrenade in my Golf oiled up the intake (probably due to the insane crankcase breather system) and the MAP sensor got it's knickers in a knot. Cleaned the sensor with MAF sensor and the intake with intake clean (there goes the neighbourhood) and it's ok until the next time. I, for one, am glad my wife's 86 has D4-S.
This is why I went Petrol for my next 4WD and thanks John for saving me 9k!
Well done! Both of you!
Enjoy spending that 9k you saved on extra fuel these next few years.😀
Phil Elliott haha I will mate or 4x4 mods 😉
Good stuff mate!!
I once worked with a guy that would constantly switch from full throttle to zero throttle on the highway, literally every few seconds. Not a pleasant ride, but he claimed it prevents EGR gas recirculation, thus reducing intake carbon build up in deisel engines. Is there any truth in that?
How about to use a spray of such product as CRC GDI Service Kit in lieu of the (industrial) walnut blasting kit on Amazon? I understand that there might be an issue with the PCV system and or diaphragm on the valve cover on my 2012 Volvo S60 T4 with the B16T4 (Ford Europe engine) as I’ve had oil leaks from the VVT solenoids. The damper oil retainer is waiting to be replaced to replenish my wallet. But the blow by test on the oil fill passed ok!
with engine off, i decided to clean my valves. I closed the valve manually and picked the big chunks off. I got most of it and then decided to spray the GDI intake cleaner from CRC to let it soak. My valve wasn't fully closed. My engine hasn't been started. My question is two part. Should I simply spray a bunch more to get it down the walls into the oil and change oil? Should I let it dry out before starting the car and then run it through intake? Any advice is helpful if it is helpful advice.
Hi so what did you do?
@@saulgoodman124 i took a straw and shop vac and blew it out from the spark plug out the intake and then let it dry and then did shop vac again but this time I sucked up any large chunks that may have been left down there. I checked with boroscope and didn't see anything worth stressing off. Most of the carbon was wet and not hardened so it would burn off either way. But that's one way. I figured cleaning combustion chamber is basically doing a cleaner and then forcing it down piston walls so as long as you do oil change and no hard carbon is left, it should be fine
@@theTanees Many thanks for replying back, glad it worked out fine!
Catch cans can help here. Spray cans of cleaner can also help. The only way to properly clean the intake system is paying for a professional chemical clean (big expensive machine hooked up to your car). That is unless you want to pull everything apart and soak it in solvent or something. I believe the recommendation is about every 50,000km for modern diesel engines.
Pretty sure John has covered the crock of catch cans previously.
Pretty sure regular highway drivong helps
Auto Expert John Cadogan Indeed. it’s an interesting phenomenon. Not that people check their oil. But if they did, in the cases you described they would be happy they magically have “extra oil”, only for it to disappear after a highway drive 😂
I run baffled oil catch cans mostly because I live a mile away from work in upstate NY where we get a lot of cold weather. I walk most of the time but in the winter the weather is too crappy for that. I have to dump them every other week of nastiness that would have otherwise gone into my intake. Dealers will tell you they are a waste of time, because dealers want to charge to clean your intake ports. If you feel like getting dirty, lacquer thinner takes carbon off intake ports really easily. Getting to them is the hard part.
Bring back port injection-problem what problem?
What about a catch can on the PVC system where it connects back into intake?
Does a quality oil catch can solve these issues? I had one fitted to my 79 Landcruiser with the 1HD-FTE motor after the intake clean was done.
John, is there a vehicle out there, that does cope with the short stop start travels. Not interested in electric cars as I don’t see them as currently a viable option.
Focus Mk1 1.4l NA : 6l/100km - port injection
Focus Mk4 1.5l T : 5.5l/100km - port and direct injection
Tested over 1 tank of fuel same commute to work in direct succession. Hardly half the fuel consumption.
And if you have to waste fuel on the highway to keep the valves cleaner and get them cleaned eventually anyway, there goes your money saved on fuel....
verb (used with or without object), a·mel·io·rat·ed, a·mel·io·rat·ing. to make or become better, more bearable, or more satisfactory; improve: strategies to ameliorate negative effects on the environment. great word. Couldn't spell it or pronounce it. I get 2 years before an oil change. Just drive a car that leaks roughly enough to top up every 3 months that's 4 litres a year. Oil change once a y
Please!!! We need an online debate between JC and Scotty Kilmer. Proponent of GDI opposed to it’s greatest critic. Would be a hoot.
Is it possible to see valves in supercharged engine using boroscope or you always need to remove valve covers to get there?
An engine sump can fill up with water from the atmosphere too. As the engine cools down in sucks in fresh air which can contain a fair amount of water that condenses in the sump.
The carby mate, gotta love the carby mate! Quick John spray the 20-20 FO and clean up with Dick Head Pro. I for one am glad they did away with them. Oh sure it gave the weekend mechanic something to do, playing with them and cleaning them etc.. Probably because we had some dirty fuel back in the early 80's (or perhaps that varied from place to place and it was only me and a few of my friends). Anyway it's something I don't miss, but I do have a question John. Why didn't they, manufacturers, move away from the carburettor and direct injection sooner? I mean, as far as I can see,
Ergo...some makers(new KIA) have gone back to PFI, or the ToyoBaru Dual port+direct injection.
An oil air separator is a good start to curing the problem.
And why don’t the manufacturers fit them? Money!
Any cost that can be cut is never out of the question with bean counters even when it comes to the safety and reliability of their products, as long as it doesn’t immediately bite them in the ass or at least not get caught out for it nothing is taboo.
So a properly designed oil air separator on the pcv system and a filtered and properly cooled EGR system would solve the problem but fitting such things might cost an extra 0.00001% in production costs which if they can get away with not spending will net them an extra million dollar bonus come Christmas.
Well, if that's the reason they don't factory install it, they should at least offer to install it by their service department without loosing the warranty. People (byers) who are aware of this design problem will be willing to pay extra for the installation of catch can and car company would make even more profits. But I talked to my local Hyundai dealer and asked if I buy a brand new i30 N-line can they install one for me if I pay extra. The answer was NO. He mentioned something about the risk for the turbo system. If I install it on my own I am losing the warranty. So after 5 years when the car runs out of the warranty and by then intake gets clogged (including the turbo blades), I can do it. First I would have to pay a big bill for the mechanical cleanup with the risk of damaging something else.
I found the solution. I did not buy a brand new i30 N-line. I kept my 10 year old Toyota Aurion with the old port injector 3.5 litre naturally aspirated engine. Yes it is about 3 L/100km more fuel consumption but it still goes like in old days. Plus I don't need to go on a highway and burn the fuel for nothing to keep the valves clean. And when I go on a cruise trip the ride is more comfortable than most small direct injection engine cars.
@@beograd07 . The reason they won’t offer it and won’t allow it to be fitted is liability. If they offer it as an option or allow you to fit one aftermarket then they are admitting to a design flaw. If they admit to a design flaw then they are on the hook for repairs to every engine and fitting a catch can also and that is far more expensive than just fitting one in the first place.
@@anomamos9095 I see your point. I think you are right. Any cost for a long term problem in design is paid by customer and seller reputation damage is outweighed by the profit this design problem can bring. I don't think engineers are to blame as they have to design products these bean counters require from them. It is very disappointing to get a much better designed car as John mentioned, with lower fuel economy, smaller engine but more power, environmentally friendlier and it needs just a small step to be much more reliable and durable but the profit rule doesn't allow it.
If you've ever worked on the Japanese motorcycle carbs of the 1980s and 1990s, you'd know these are not dull instruments.
So John, is the $190 well spent and what do they actually do?
Love your videos John but I think it'd be better if you provided a bit more guidance for us regular fools out here. Like should Frank have stumped up the money or should he have told the dealer that because of how the engine is designed, this should be covered by warranty? Or is there a cleaner of sorts that can alleviate this issue for the bulk of us that only drive in-town and rarely get above 60km/h? Please provide more solutions ;)
My imported Toyota has a direct injection 3GR V6. I was a little worried about carbon build up on the intake valves. There are lots of RUclipsrs recommending oil catch cans for this, apart from our Johnny boy here.
I had my engine checked and it was dry with no sludge, so I didn't need a catch can. Who knew Toyota knows how to make an engine, direct injection one at that.
Some Toyota engines have both direct and indirect injection in the same engine problem solved ?
@@kris8742 True, but not the 3GR-FSE. The 3.5L 2GR usually does have port and direct, D4-S in Toyota speak. 3GR-FSE is D4 direct injection only to my knowledge.