@@fishbmw old but just watched this and agree totally...he was in a slide the leg stabilized him for a splitsecond longer and there looked like small contact and i was instinctive...as a fellow dirt rider you throw a leg out in a slide to help prevent your rear wheel from sliding out from under you...also in the rider position fir dirt you usually have a berm to soak up down force that is not really mentioed...on the street you dont have that advantage.
Rossi is riding dirt bikes since he was 4 years old and still passionately rides dirtbikes. My guess is that he either did it that first time instinctively and it worked, or he purposely incorporated the technique from dirtbiking.
Its Rossi experimenting cornering in a style used with motocross or supermoto bikes on Motogp bike to enable taking a different racing line. As free time Rossi does a lot of supermoto riding at his ranch.
Rossi has stated dangling makes no difference in his lap times. I think he did it instinctively the first time then it became habit. Michael Jordan always had his tongue sticking out when he dunked, it didn't make him jump higher, just an old habit. Enjoy your vids.
@@64t120r The real question is: how much of an advantage does this fart produce? That additional propulsion may be wery well controlled. Does the Doctor eat beans before the race to fuel his power?
I grew up a dirt rider, flat tracking. When I first rode a street bike I did this under hard braking usually when I missed my marker and was about to go deeper than I anticipated into the corner. Your explanation is perfect. It's a number of factors, but braking leverage is the biggest.
Rata 4U lol that's funny. You make it sound like you'd be passing him going 100mph faster.... realistically you would pass 5 to 10 mph faster, no that wouldn't amputate anything. That would most likely make you both crash. C'mon, you were born with a human brain, use those critical thinking skills and intellect...
I smiled at that one...like in a race Im gonna say oh no his leg is there i cant pass until he pulls it back in...tic toc tic toc-ok! w.o.t. I don't think pro racers are that polite or that timid.
Your brain in most cases will decide if you hit an object a good rider would flinch before hitting a dangled leg or goose on the road at 100mph or more. Excellent blocking and uncertainty whether a bike is about to crash in front of you the far more safe and conservative racer trying to catch up no?
Mattersonify correct. Rossi started it and everyone copied him. Rossi himself actually stated that he was only doing it because he was so used to doing it during the off season on dirt bikes. That’s his only reasoning that I’ve ever heard from the man himself. I’m sure it has benefits that the riders are not aware of but saw Rossi do it successfully and adopted it thinking there must be an advantage.
Aayush Dua not to play mind games no. Just force of habit. I’m guessing it didn’t feel uncomfortable or like it caused him a disadvantage so he just continued with it.
I’ve seen a few of your videos. They’re very informative. I’m an ex-racer and I can tell you why I did the leg dangle. For me, it had to do with stabilizing the bike on corner entry. Under heavy braking going into a corner, the rear wheel gets light or comes off the ground, and it stays that way even after beginning to lean the bike into the turn. The result is that the rear wheel drifts out-of-line to the outside as the bike tips in. You called this “offset”. When the weight comes back to the rear tire again, the bike does a big shimmy as the wheels snap back into alignment. Modern bike design focuses on the centralization of mass, and this makes for quicker turning but it also decreases stability. This makes the shimmy even larger, and my leg serves to counter this instability. My extended leg acts exactly like the long pole that tightrope walkers use in that it DE-centralizes the mass for a moment. When the shimmy is over, I pull my leg back in. To the extent my outside leg is locked onto the tank, my inside leg (pole) stability is transferred to the bike and minimizes the rear wheel shimmy. This is similar to your #4 but it's about stability when the wheels pop back into alignment and not just keeping the bike upright.
Back wheel shimmy? F. I never experienced that. Or tank slap. Tell me more! --I sit up if braking harder than usual. Weight transfer, wind resistance, blah.
I did the leg dangle going 60mph as a split second reaction to my front wheel losing traction during a tighter-than-expected corner. It saved me laying the bike down and sliding into a tree.
He got a cramp, stuck his leg out, noticed he had a better line, was like fuck ya, kept his leg out took the inside got the position. Got yelled at by his crew explained his theory and the rest is history. Her we are today trying to figure it out as in science. I don’t think Rossi was getting all technical while trying to kick ass.
The leg dangle has been around for a very long time. Before Rossi. Another video explains who learned from who and traced it back to a racer from the 70’s who when asked why he started it said “I dunno?”
Actually: "Rossi made an interesting comment the other day regarding the leg out thing...he said '' I don't know why i do it.....but i know why everyone else dose it''.......Classic statment !!!!" (id SPOOKY) - Aug 6 2009, forums.superbikeschool.com/topic/1206-rossi-sticking-out-his-leg-why/page/4/ I also remember someone posting it on the old CBR250.com forums, so I'm definitely not the only person who saw that interview!
You're a literal hero. I've been wondering why some riders do this exact thing, and why some don't, but every time I googled it, explanations for the leg touching the ground were the only thing coming up, not the leg dangle, so thank you so much for this.
#4 makes a lot of sense, as that's what Flat-trackers do. When I was learning all those years ago, I was taught NEVER do this, if you foot "catches" the road, it'll snap your shin like a chicken wing. Not everything racer does means you should do it on the street. Besides, two feet on the pegs and knees on the tank makes you more 'planted' on the bike, hence, more stable. Ride a bicycle with no hands on the bars and no feet on the pedals will illustrate this quite well. You're not Rossi. Ride like you want to live and you'll have the best chance of doing both.
Doesn't most of the leg danglers practice a lot with riding flattrack? Muscle memory and just feeling more confident while sliding leads to that since flattracker do it a lot
That seems a very likely explanation. I used to ride mx, scrambles, TT scrambles, and some road racing. I consider the reflex to dangle a leg a very strong influence that translates into confidence. As for mx'rs putting the foot out in front, it was largely to keep it forward to keep from getting drawn into the passing turf and ruining the intended line - probably among other senses of balance, etc.
The foot going forward softens the weight transfer and helps delay the weight transfer until the tire reaches maximum deflection.(search pnumatic trail and tire deflection videos) I'm sure it helps with aero braking and pulling the bike into the lean angle also! Also any time you touch the ground your brain receives alot more feed back, you know exactly how far your leaning. The lighter the bike is the more obvious this is (super moto or bicycle) ruclips.net/video/ZlMywlO53TA/видео.html
Before I even watch they dangle the leg to stabilise and transfer more weight to the rear of the bike , hence more grip on the rear tyre during the weight transfer to the front wheel during hard braking.
Dangling the leg will definitely increase drag substantially, just look at how small changes in aerodynamics can increase or decrease drag coefficient. It will also steer you into the corner. The other thing is that it allows your body to relax for a moment, staying in that tight crouched position for an entire race must be hard on the body (mainly the hips).
I disagree with number 2. In the other sports mentioned they are trying to push backwards on the ground to accelerate themselves forwards whereas the riders are trying to push back with their arms to hold themselves back against the braking forces. Putting their leg forwards, even when not braking will add more force on their arms to hold them back. During braking it will increase the forces on their arms required to hold themselves up. At a constant speed (or stationary), putting their leg backwards will cause gravity to rotate the body around its CoG, moving the leg downwards and the torso backwards. Similarly, during braking putting their leg downwards means the braking forces will push the leg forwards which will rotate the body backwards around its CoG, including pushing their torso backwards. This means that less force is on their arms, by using their core muscle and the backwards rotation caused by their lowered leg during braking.
There is no technical explanation - they don't do it every time or every corner. The best explanation/justification I've heard is that it helps blood circulation in the leg (otherwise restricted by the serve bend in the knee caused by riding crouch for aerodynamics); can't do it in a straight line - tucked in for aerodynamics, can't do it in corners - obvious. Only in braking is there the opportunity without disadvantage. Street riders often stretch their legs in the straight ahead because they are not going for every ounce of speed (aerodynamics).
"Leg-dangling"ffs! STUPID!!!! It's what you do if you are braking very hard at low speeds so if the front wheel steps out you can save it. Fucking idiots in here (look at the comments!) think it's some mysterious clever thing rather than a simple precaution.
Its not absurd. If youve ever driven a sportbike youd know on a longer trip legs begin to feel like shit... you will want to take a break and walk around abit. And this is by driving casually... not 100% race speeds. Its still the same reason... exhausting being in an uncomfortable position. I drive a sportbike irl and when i take mere 20km trips i dangle my legs and stand up (if possible) on my bike near the end of it to stretch my legs and butt. And this is without wearing a tight racingsuit, i wear alot more comfortable outfit but is still protective. I can only imagine whats it like racing a bike in a tight suit for an entire length of a race. If your front wheel steps out theres no way to save it anyway... no point in thinking its possible.
I would add another to the list of reasons - comfort impact. Straitening the leg would have a benefit in giving some relief/rejuvenation vs being folded up.
Was looking for this. I have damaged knees and ride with a very tight knee angle. Dangling each leg in 1-2 corners each lap stops the pain in my knees.
I think he addresses this in the video when he talks about centre of mass, and how shifting the centre of mass can prevent the rear wheel sliding so much
I messed around with this when running parking lot drills a week ago, felt surprisingly natural. Ran it for a session or two on-track today, it was amazing how much it affected hard braking while hanging off (in terms of physical exertion). My instructor didn't like it for some reason. But my hips feel awesome now from all the stretching.
when i learned leg out in motorcross corners it was explained as a way to get weight forward, but that was a long time ago and im a bad student. also having seen a couple of your videos pop up, this is the one that made me sure i subscribed, i like the way you went about the discussion.
I love thishit. Presented with observation, theory, confirmation, rebuttal, speed and panache'. The internet is not broken and all future discussions are validated by its' existence. New subscriber and looking forward to new presentations.
"Leg-dangling"ffs! STUPID!!!! It's what you do if you are braking very hard at low speeds so if the front wheel steps out you can save it. Fucking idiots in here (look at the comments!) think it's some mysterious clever thing rather than a simple precaution.
Yes a good explanation but not captured is that the drag factor is easily determined by measuring the different effects on top speed of being in a tuck, sitting up (as if braking), hanging off to one side (as if braking) and hanging a leg. The difference in speed is due to CdA as the power would be effectively constant.
Exactly what I think is missed in this list of proper reasons for dangling. Your leg works like a cheetahs tail while running on higher speed. As you said the leg works like a counter force to that bike swibble what you get under hard breaking + cornering and makes the bike more stable. That makes even more sense if you think about your upper body while under hard breaking. Its stiffed up, or more than usual. Normaly your Torso and arms are loose to compensate movement of your bike. So if your upper body stiffs up, its usefull to compensate swibble with other parts of your body.
The foot going forward softens the weight transfer and helps delay the weight transfer until the tire reaches maximum deflection.(search pnumatic trail and tire deflection videos) I'm sure it helps with aero braking and pulling the bike into the lean angle also! Also any time you touch the ground your brain receives alot more feed back, you know exactly how far your leaning. The lighter the bike is the more obvious this is (super moto or bicycle) ruclips.net/video/ZlMywlO53TA/видео.html
I dont think you have ever ridden dirt? We stick our leg out to catch the bike if it should slide out in the corner. "Weight transfer" my arse. We just dont want to crash!
Theory #4 is what I’ve always said was the reasoning behind the leg dangle. Good video again. You brought up theories I hadn’t thought of nor heard about.
I'm no professional but by studying the videos and watching documentaries and having experience riding dirt bikes, supermoto and street/sport bikes the answer is very simple. Its number 4, the others all help out to control a slide. Why would they slide you may ask? To brake later into the corner and carry more speed! If you watch supermoto racers they all slide into corners while they have their foot out pushing the bike down because it's a fast way of doing it. Marc is infamous for sliding the rear wheel and having the leverage and foot out gives him more control of it especially considering how late he brakes into corners. Other racers do it to incase that happens because of how hard they brake using the front brake, which lifts the rear wheel and when it gets set back down might induce a slide.
It's not normal, unless you lean forward at the same time, if helps distribute more weight on your front wheel, so you're less likely to lose traction.
This was exactly what I was going to say, was doing this before Rossi did it whilst riding on the road, it also helps gauge speed (in real terms, not just numbers on a speedo) and road camber too.
I'm an old former 2 class AMA Expert License holder (125cc motocross and 250cc Road Race, both back in the 70's, and also raced some flat track and competed in Trials competitions and Enduros)), who now rides a highly modified S1000RR...my take is that I/other top riders in the 70's learned to use that technique in motocross to help steer with the rear wheel around corners, it helped with the center of gravity...and of course in motocross if you slid too much you could use it to help stabilize by making contact with the ground, but the idea was to never let your foot touch...I had never really thought about it relating to Rossi in GP, but back when I bought my S1000RR (2012) I found it helpful (not to mention fun) to slide it into corners to help with corner placement and to get the rear (and front) tire pointed in the right direction and I noticed I was naturally dropping my inward foot just like I did as a youngster in motocross...it wasn't until later that I started researching the idea that I became aware Rossi had popularized it.
steve Fowler Question. How old are you? I just ask because as an older rider I noticed how it’s not as easy as it once was to ride anymore. I refused to get a Harley and ride to Starbucks but I honestly wonder how much longer can I be in this sport before I just can’t do it anymore. Can’t imagine life at that point! I’m 50 now and it’s getting much harder to deal with the heat, low energy, fatigue, etc. just curious.
@Dave...I'm 61 and the only issue I have is my heart still thinks I have the reflexes of a 20 year old, and I do not, so it is a constant battle when I'm on my S1000RR to ride well within my limits...at 61 I certainly don't want to get off it, even at modest speeds...it's a dilemma for me that I constantly fight...as to my health, I'm good to go, I still work out at the gym 2 to 4 times a week and still run about 1 1/2 to 2 miles twice a week and still weigh about what I did in my 20's....I would suggest you consider doing some weight training and some aerobic activity (run, bike, etc.), it may improve your energy and outlook....good luck.
steve fowler, sounds like very good advice to me... rock on bud!! I'm 60 myself and am very interested in giving trials a shot. I see tons of practice involved, but the fun kinda practice.
I don't understand why nobody else mentioned a reference to motocross, that they just simply carried it over by habit. Since MANY, if not ALL, motoGP riders start in motocross.
I've been riding since the beginning of January 2021 and this past week I've found myself doing this outta habit. I didn't see anyone else do it, it's just what feels most comfortable for me when turning. I guess it's cool to know professional riders do this too, thought it was a bad habit I was developing.
One reason could be to create a 'pendulum effect', with the leg coming back to the foot peg, leaning the bike is faster and smoother, other than that one more rather primitive reason could be to trigger a last minute alarm for other racers around within close proximity before going for the lean (not to block, but to avoid possible clash)
I think this is correct, it helps them control the rear tire when it starts breaking lose when they are backing it in before they sweep into the corner. It also helps them carry more speed in while ‘throwing it into the corner’ under passes and under the intense entrances these guys will push it to entering corners, only so much muscle upper body can help it then comes down to these little techniques that helps them hold it when manipulating the bike on that fine edge. No doubt they don’t do it the same way every lap but when it matters I would imagine they are really using everything and then some to keep them self on two wheels.
Thank you. I dont know why people like complicating things. Anyone who's gone offloading with a simple mountain bike would know this. It's just simple a reflex when sliding a bike. And it's not even always necessary. I feel the same about knee sliding, I've been overtaken too many time on the road by BMW GS1200 doing serious lean angles without even putting knee out, while I'm there focusing on knee out like an idoit. Moral of the story, let your body react naturally instead of trying to copy other riders.
What Baby Yaga was referring to was that you called motorcycle riding, "driving" which only applies to cars and other transport such as trucks, trains and horse drawn carriages. You also referred to MotoGP as "GP" which is a term usually associated with motor racing. Perhaps Baby Yaga was very rude and childish by nitpicking your post. I understood your post. The name "Baby Yaga" seems to fit the mentality of his/her post.
According to Simon Crafar in Motovudu - Dark Art of Performance it is weight shifting with your leg to reduce how much the back wheel comes around (backing in) under heavy braking. Best explanation I've heard. Similar to No.2 & 4 here.
It keeps the bike more upright yet moving the weight still so the heat and wear in the tires is in a more optimal spot rather than beating up the section of rubber they use over and over.
Coming from a dirt background on lose surfaces when you would lean the bike instinctively but you know the grip wont be there the weight gets transferred to turn with less angle but on asphalt the wear and heat in the tires is crucial so the same process has different advantages
Thanks for the video! I myself think its mostly for keeping someone from coming in underneath you as you enter the turn. Keep in mind that these guys are riding pretty much at the limit so having someone go right up against you on the inside while you are managing your traction can be very unsettling. And yes, you can feel the drag in the braking zone.
I thought Rossi's experiments showed that there was no difference in his times whether he was dangling a leg or not. A simple explanation would be collective behaviour, most racers doing it because the fast guys do it, quite like the experiment with the 5 monkeys and a ladder: www.wisdompills.com/2014/05/28/the-famous-social-experiment-5-monkeys-a-ladder/amp/
May not make tangible lap time improvements but for some riders it gives then a little more confidence coming into the corner. I'm not nearly fast enough to test it myself but that's what I have been told
+ Curve Ahead I don't disagree with the point you are making but the story you linked to was not a valid experiment. It was a 'story' made up to illustrate the point. The fable was based off a 1920's experiment whose results pointed to a similar conclusion but not as striking as the 'fable' illustrates.
The foot going forward softens the weight transfer and helps delay the weight transfer until the tire reaches maximum deflection.(search pnumatic trail and tire deflection videos) I'm sure it helps with aero braking and pulling the bike into the lean angle also! Also any time you touch the ground your brain receives alot more feed back, you know exactly how far your leaning. The lighter the bike is the more obvious this is (super moto or bicycle) ruclips.net/video/ZlMywlO53TA/видео.html
Rossi already said, "it's just a habit." Lorenzo said, "we do it for front tire in hard braking." Which people have concluded to mean you put more weight on the bars. All you have to do is try it and you'll instantly see the huge amount of force you put on the front suspension.
Dangling a leg off to the side doesn't put a "huge amount of force" on the front suspension. It's barely enough to overcome stiction in the forks, if at all.
no actually i believe youre really close, personally having ridden offroad my entire life i find sticking a leg out early like in gp moves the CoG slightly so that as the bike tips in there is a longer/smoother change in the CoG creating a smoother easier transition to the corner. the smoother transition means its less likely to slide and easier to grip the corner. its almost identical to just sticking a knee out, imho it is purely rider preference to how they wanna tackle the corner.
Joshua Koch to me it looks pretty obvious that you put it out as a counter to the rear brake in case the back starts to come out..otherwise you wouldnt be able to correct the body weight quick enough given your setting up to lean in
i’ve done this as a rider and can say for me it helps to make a more abrupt change in center of gravity and also helps corner entry when you have notice an aspect of that certain corner and that aspect caused you as a rider to decide a different approach angle/line to choose. last minute messin around.
I been doing this technique since the 1990's on BMX bicycles a lot. It helps me keep my balance around corners at high speeds without wrecking or slowing down.
@Sunyata - Nobody was sticking a knee out, either, until King Kenny took the world by storm. That YOU have never instinctively thrust the trusty outrigger into the air means nothing about the maneuver, but says loads about your personal evolution while riding.
@Sunyata - You're talking to the wrong rider, douchette. You don't know ME from Adam- did your racing include Riverside? Ontario? Sears Point? Maybe you ran/run Willow Springs? Then STFU, hoser. Perhaps you should try the arrogant approach with Rossi? Hell, man-up and challenge HIM to a one-on-one race? I'm certain you will prevail...
@Sunyata - You come off as arrogant, bud. My go-to with the 'holier than thou' crowd is always ad hominem. You really should call Rossi. I'd pay good money to see THAT! Poor champ getting waxed by a guy with a name that sounds like a beach snack. You win much, or just master the bragadocio? Lots of guys take one foot off after the race (or practice) to stretch back out. I haven't noticed if people favor the shifting side over the braking side- If I cramped up, it was usually a universal thing? First guy I ever noticed sticking a foot out going into a corner; while racing; was Gary Fisher at Laguna Seca the year Cal Rayburn tracked him down (and his over-heating Yamaha) on that big twin. 1971? '72? (DuHamel threw his Kawasaki away on the first lap?) Passed him going through the cork screw, of all places. But I digress. GF started taking his right leg off the peg going into, what, #10? (The RH turn before the last hair pin?) He was still in the lead. I was between the corkscrew and the LH sweeper; inside of the track, obviously spectating. I didn't have clear view of the last LHer, so I don't know what he was doing there, and everything happens so fast in the turns I was watching, there was no time for him to be sticking a leg out. I couldn't see his entry to the cork screw from where I sat, so, again, no idea how he was entering that LHer. But he kept hanging a crooked keg out going into the RHer (let's call it#10, since Google images says it is) that I could see, even after Rayburn had taken the lead. Interestingly, on the cool-down lap, Fisher kept both feet on his pegs while almost everyone else had one foot off down the short straight before #10, if not both feet. IDK if Fisher was cramping, or what, because his fade was pretty substantial. But he was consistantly taking his foot off going into #10, though still bent 90 degrees or so. My instincts are MX related, and every time I lose one end of the bike, those instincts are to unweight the inside, usually by sticking my foot out. IDK if it's self-preservation, or good technique, but, at 61, it isn't going to change (old dog, new trick). And I have not raced anything for, literally, decades. No bike now. I was very fortunate to have gotten to watch a lot of dirt track racing at Ascot. Timing is everything, and I saw Gary Scott and Kenny Roberts race Novice, then Juniors, and then off into their Expert careers. They rode differently on the dirt, and they were, style-wise, at polar opposites of the spectrum on asphalt. Scott stayed tucked-in behind his fairing, and KR was ass-crack on the edge of the seat, knee noticeably out 6-8" in the turns. While Kel Carruthers kinda stuck his knee out, his style was modest in comparison. And Roberts was the only one doing it- for awhile. But as his success on-track started to happen, so did the emulation of his style, with hilariously varying degrees of success. But, soon enough, almost all the fast guys were doing it. It's really a shame that Rayburn wasn't there. Kenny might have stuck around a little longer, had he some proper competition. I never saw Agostini race, but, judging by the pictures, he started riding more like KR once KR was in Europe. I've wasted your time with these babbling stories to make a point. Things change. Even the fastest way around a track. I've watched riding styles evolve over 50 years and many inches of travel, and someone, somewhere, is already riding some weird way that might win a World's Championship one day. The leg dangling works for Rossi, and others, and I disagree that it makes no difference; especially your point that fast lap times are the result of getting off the corner well. Fast lap times are a by-product of momentum- not so much NOW, with all the HP and the means to get that power down, but, all else being equal, he who is fastest into, through, and out of the corner is going to win. You can't sacrifice one for another. And your hard charge off can be negated by another's late braking, bike position and line. Pure lap times (like qualifying?) are the result of momentum. And there is the physics of the weight out, off-setting to the centrifical force, albeit to a minor degree. Not to mention the sail-brake that dangling leg creates, both slowing and pulling your towards the apex. So what if it is a minute difference, added all together...100ths = 10ths = seconds. Combined with a rider's psychology of just feeling better riding their way, who's to say Rossi isn't appreciably faster this way, or that. Me? You? Anyone?! Truce?
Holding the leg out functions in two ways. Properties of physics are in play here...think of the tightrope walker using the pole to stabilize his movements on the rope. First the stick provides a high level of feedback that wouldn’t be available without the stick. Additionally, the stick is used to take corrective action by moving it left or right. When the bike is under hard braking, the tendency of the rear wheel swing around the steering axis is high. Making the body wider by sticking the leg out makes that swinging motion more tactile and manageable. Moment of Inertia I believe.
I do it since I think it adds more stability while driving through corners. I get a better feeling while driving corners if I dangle my leg. For me it acts like a knee pad to show you when you've reached the possible limit before loosing it. I like to do this especially in bad weather conditions such as rain or ice on the street. It just gives you that extra bit of feeling.
"Leg-dangling"ffs! STUPID!!!! It's what you do if you are braking very hard at low speeds so if the front wheel steps out you can save it. Fucking idiots in here think it's some mysterious clever thing rather than a simple precaution.
I know as an agressive rider myself, i catch myself doing the same thing but i never watch moto gp, and nobody i ride with does it either. I DO however have a motorcross background which is where I think I get it from. I can tell you my personal experience is that it is a confidence AND a control thing for me.. I can tell you that i do it to prevent a low side when entering hard on the brakes. After you turn in, the bike is typically set and theres little fear of low side, however you are low enough that the knee pads double as having the foot out while mid turn. I can tell you that from personal experience that i can NOT apply as much rotational torque on the bike, because i am trying to pull it down from the furthest distance over the top of the bike only. Rather than a knee in the tank, or over the seat, and the other pushing the inside peg down.. Think of it as trying to loosen a fastener by applying torque with JUST your index finger wrapped around the bolt. You can rotate it, but if you can get a grip of it, it's still difficult to turn.. Now, turn the same fastener in the same manner, but this time, also use your thumb to help push the same direction. More torque.. Almost unlimited.. So, for confidence and control while entering a turn is why i do it. Then while turning in, i rely on my knee for confidence and control. 3 points of contact during almost the entire turn.. Hope this helps any..
From my own experience racing I got the distinct feeling that this is why Rossi did it back in 2005 when he got into the corner a bit too hot for that tight a line and anticipated the feeling of loosing the front, so he put his foot out to catch the front if needed.
Kudos 🤙✌️To Mr Mike for explaining it so beautifully in just less than 13 minutes was just an eye 👀 opening for me as a rider.... Appreciated ☺️ got to learn alot from watching it....and pasting all the techniques for my next practice sessions and so on...I am an intermediate freestylist all the way from India, West Bengal (Indo-Bhutan Border). Jaigaon... Thanks for the lessons.... keep going Good luck 🤞😃
I thought it was because the vibration at that angle jingles your dingle dangles and letting that leg hang lessens the vibration on your dingle dangles and wingle wangles, any thoughts?
Rossi didnt invent anything here. A) This was seen in dirtbiking for ages. B) we used to do it as kids riding 50ccm Thomos bikes as 10 year old kids, without ever having seen any race or anyone advising us to do it, well, maybe we saw it from our older brothers, etc, but it was just something that felt natural/ cool, before going into a corner. Kind of like gauging the corner a bit. That it actually would have an effect and help riding the bike through the corner would not have come to our minds.
I used this technique during high speed to dive into sharp or low speed corners, it gives me extra leverage and control. Its also a plus and perfect time to stretch out your leg during racing.
I do it all the time while making sharp turns to adjust the forces. It just came automatically to my style. I didn't realise it was such a big deal until this video. Lol
Not sure about your analysis. A motocross rider sticks his (her) leg out to the front, not the side, to get weight over the front wheel so that it has traction in the turn. Similarly, you have your body more vertical to get weight over the contact patch to generate grip. This is very different to a GP circuit where the tarmac allows grip, so the priority becomes controlling the CofG to keep the bike more upright.
"Leg-dangling"ffs! STUPID!!!! It's what you do if you are braking very hard at low speeds so if the front wheel steps out you can save it. Fucking idiots in here (look at the comments!) think it's some mysterious clever thing rather than a simple precaution.
riding position on an mx bike abd a GP bike is different, thus the different angle. I think its a stability thing and it stems from riders wanting more control in a slide, spending more time on mx bikes to get "the feeling" and instinctively sticking a leg out. i find my bike is way more stable with one leg out, when its pre corner or pulling up to the lights.
I tried it to see what the difference was between one way or the other. I found that 1. It does feel like you create more drag at speed. 2. You feel more stable if your other leg is holding your weight at the gas tank with the inner thigh 3. Your foot more easily returns to the foot peg and positions just right. As opposed to moving it back to the right position for the turn. 4. It becomes very natural feeling and is easily adapted to your style. 5. Like many things in sport riding not one thing is best for every corner. In some corners a traditional braking style is/feels better. Also riders do things that compliment their own personal physical attributes and style.
I do it on purpose as a swing of the boot helps to create a forced weight transfer to the inside of the corner, actually tipping the bike in the corner, as while braking-it stabilises the bike and keeps it upright, so a lot of force required by weight shift to lean the bike, and the foot swing does help a lot, while keeping your body on top of the bike for control of the grip balance on corner entry
It was Rossi’s best explanation at the time to cover up his “oooooohshiiiiiiiiit” moment. And true to form, the Valeban lemmings bought it hook, line and sinker!
Love all your Vids, I myself test the leg dangle on my sport bike and the best part is: it transfer my weight from half front (came from break) to rear (ready to turn) and this tip helps me a few kmph faster when cornering.
@@carlosescobar5995 Why those two comments don't have more likes? Otherwise why would Marq slide his foot on the tarmac so hard his sole started to smoke while his rear wheel was in the air...
@@Don.of. i used to work at Circuit of the Americas and i did ask their engineers. It is to provide counter weight to stop the bike from wobbling before entering the corner.
@Sunyata who knows. i have tried it and all i found was it put tons of weight on my inside arm, maybe help[ed turn in ?? sure it depends on the bike and rider style. maybe lorenzo was smooth enough he did not need the counterweight in the first place if the bike was not getting out of shape. some might argue . but iam not an engineer . i dont do it....
It also allows the 'varient' of jerking the leg back....to offset some percieved need to alter the situation, or feedback. Also, the airdrag preloads the bike for rotation in the impending corner's direction.
I think its a weight transfer thing where the braking g forces make your body lurch forward, you have your hands on the bars which is hinged and the only other point is the outside peg. The force on the outside peg helps push the back of the bike around since it has less traction since all the weight is on the front. So the dangling leg uses weight transfer to bring the back end around to increase the turn in feel
Dude! You are WAY over thinking it. Do you race? It's ALL about lateral center of gravity. Try it. I guess it's always been obvious to us because of airplaine building backgrounds - which I guess caused us to always think in terms of the different COG's when setting up cars AND bikes. When Rossi first said in an interview that he 'didn't know why, it just felt better' I instantly know the reason - especially after trying it. If you are one who's style makes use of "backing it in" (letting the rear hang out during braking) then hanging your leg to the inside give you some influence over the lateral COG and and increased level of control over the bike. To visualize it imagine a birds-eye view of a rider during braking into a corner, while the rear stepping out (to the outside of the corner) while dangling the inside leg. Try it - there is no thought required. It's very natural - - the more the rear steps out, you naturally tend to put your inside leg further out - - - forced to pull the leg in as you lean over of course. Also - ther is NO comparison to dirt riding as there is no "prolonged" heavy braking soley by the front - and the leg is typically put out while under throttle - try it. It seems very obvious to me and all my riding buds. In all fairness, it is not imediately obvious to those not used to thinking in terms of COG in 3 axis. Cheers and Thanks for the vid.
In motocross the forward weight transfer of sticking a leg out helps to put more weight over the front of the bike to get it to grip and turn better. Once it's out there it can also be used to help save a slide if the front washes out but that's not the reason it's there in the first place. It's a bit like knee-down on racing bikes, the weight transfer of hanging off to the inside of the corner changes the centre of gravity and allows a higher corner speed for any given angel of lean, but once the knee is on the ground (or even the elbow) it can be used to help save slides - but again, it's not the reason it's there in the first place.
Here's a theory - @7:10 time in video the back wheel is off the ground. assuming it stays off the ground the only thing that would keep the mid to rear of the motorcycle floating to the outside of the turn is using the outside leg muscles to push it back in. You can get more leverage to achieve this with your inside leg off the bike. If the back wheel is not getting airborne while trail braking, then this trick is not needed.
i used to work at Circuit of the Americas and i asked a few moto2 and moto america riders. It is to provide counter weight to the bike so it stops wobbling and settles down right before entering a corner. that why it doesnt matter if the foot is more foreword or back, it is the distance from the bike outward that provides the counter weight.
Yes, you are right. The combined CoG should be located between the position of the two parts’ CoG in a two-part system. This must be a small post-processing mistake on that figure.
I do that on my street, bikes, sport bikes, because of the extreme angle when I have the ball of my foot on the foot peg, especially while cornering. It tends to shut the circulation off being in that almost Crouch position. I do it to get the circulation back to do my feet after an hour or so depending on which bike I’m riding.. back when I was road racing in the 70s and 80s, winning six championships, two time national champion, on RDs. Mostly, I had my foot pegs relocated, back and up, which was legal for modified production. when I was younger, then, and I didn’t need to get the circulation, flowing back to my lower legs back then for some reason. Even on my factory Road race TZ250, I never had the urge
Observers explain in 12 minutes.
Rossi: _"Didn't know why. It just felt better"_
Translation = I fucked up the corner by carrying too much speed & was shitting myself.
@@fishbmw yep
hahahahahaha
@@fishbmw old but just watched this and agree totally...he was in a slide the leg stabilized him for a splitsecond longer and there looked like small contact and i was instinctive...as a fellow dirt rider you throw a leg out in a slide to help prevent your rear wheel from sliding out from under you...also in the rider position fir dirt you usually have a berm to soak up down force that is not really mentioed...on the street you dont have that advantage.
@@schmegmann he want to drag the boot to feel the grip of the road ? the grip tell him how much speed he can go in the turn ?
Neighbors look at me funny when I do this on the lawn tractor.
Lmao
You need new neighbors
When you're braking late before turning around? 😅
@@Sheza58 "trailbraking"
They look at me even weirder when I have it at max power and I’m in full gear dragging knee off the John Deere
Rossi is riding dirt bikes since he was 4 years old and still passionately rides dirtbikes. My guess is that he either did it that first time instinctively and it worked, or he purposely incorporated the technique from dirtbiking.
I was gonna say, flat track, dirt and supermoto guys do this all the time. Less common in motogp, but it’s not a new technique.
musashidanmcgrath that is exactly what it is it’s instinctively from riding dirt bikes
Yup
Yes,supermoto use it alot aswell.
But he didn't always dangle
Rossi been training with supermoto at his ranch in his free time and adopted this style into gp as cornering with supermoto often does this.
I do the leg dangle every morning when getting out of bed.
Me 2
Some mornings I do a full tuck just to make it to the medicine cabinet.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I dangle my leg during breakfast
I find it reassuring to dangle a leg off the bed after a night of drinking and debauchery...
I do it in my car
I'm dead😂😂
Because you're out of gas?
🤣🤣
That dead pedal is bitch. it loves to move
I have a semi truck as a daily driver
Its Rossi experimenting cornering in a style used with motocross or supermoto bikes on Motogp bike to enable taking a different racing line. As free time Rossi does a lot of supermoto riding at his ranch.
Rossi has stated dangling makes no difference in his lap times. I think he did it instinctively the first time then it became habit. Michael Jordan always had his tongue sticking out when he dunked, it didn't make him jump higher, just an old habit. Enjoy your vids.
mica H ...Jordan is a noted dangler
Probably true, I think it really is a habit, but maybe it gives some more stability while braking.
Haha! Arm up, tongue out!
mica H totally agree!
Couldn't be explained better.
What if Rossi just had to fart. those race suits are tight and the leg lift helps probably
farting before entering every corner? sounds about right
Ivaylo Ivanov you see how fast they’re going? The river would be running brown
@@ivayloivanov3744 when riding the chiang mai loop after a pad kapow for breakfast i can vent my spleen on each of the 1864 corners.
That's a nice theory, but you don't see the suit inflate. Unless they have ventilated suits.
@@64t120r The real question is: how much of an advantage does this fart produce? That additional propulsion may be wery well controlled. Does the Doctor eat beans before the race to fuel his power?
I grew up a dirt rider, flat tracking. When I first rode a street bike I did this under hard braking usually when I missed my marker and was about to go deeper than I anticipated into the corner. Your explanation is perfect. It's a number of factors, but braking leverage is the biggest.
"Blocks other riders" until one comes in way to hot and takes your leg off lol
Not gonna happen because they have similiar speed when entering corner
Rata 4U lol that's funny. You make it sound like you'd be passing him going 100mph faster.... realistically you would pass 5 to 10 mph faster, no that wouldn't amputate anything. That would most likely make you both crash.
C'mon, you were born with a human brain, use those critical thinking skills and intellect...
Rata 4U so good to see you know nothing about racing with that idiotic comment.
I smiled at that one...like in a race Im gonna say oh no his leg is there i cant pass until he pulls it back in...tic toc tic toc-ok! w.o.t. I don't think pro racers are that polite or that timid.
Your brain in most cases will decide if you hit an object a good rider would flinch before hitting a dangled leg or goose on the road at 100mph or more. Excellent blocking and uncertainty whether a bike is about to crash in front of you the far more safe and conservative racer trying to catch up no?
Did you ever think he just wanted to *stretch the leg* 🤔🤔🤔😏
You are absolutely spot on!
I dangle my leg to stretch it when going straight whilst poodling along a 40 MPH . So yeah !
Bingo!!!! Spot on Thomas!
Johnny Quest 😂😂👏🏼👏🏼 no
Holly shit you just broke the matrix
It’s just habit from Dirtbikes. They all ride Dirtbikes during the off season.
Mattersonify correct. Rossi started it and everyone copied him. Rossi himself actually stated that he was only doing it because he was so used to doing it during the off season on dirt bikes. That’s his only reasoning that I’ve ever heard from the man himself. I’m sure it has benefits that the riders are not aware of but saw Rossi do it successfully and adopted it thinking there must be an advantage.
For motocross for me, I put mine out so if I start to fall I can push myself back up
@@legaltender86 SO Rossi unintentionally played mind games
Aayush Dua not to play mind games no. Just force of habit. I’m guessing it didn’t feel uncomfortable or like it caused him a disadvantage so he just continued with it.
Yes. Us dirtbikers tend to do this when we are on tarmac circuits. Its habit.
I’ve seen a few of your videos. They’re very informative. I’m an ex-racer and I can tell you why I did the leg dangle. For me, it had to do with stabilizing the bike on corner entry. Under heavy braking going into a corner, the rear wheel gets light or comes off the ground, and it stays that way even after beginning to lean the bike into the turn. The result is that the rear wheel drifts out-of-line to the outside as the bike tips in. You called this “offset”. When the weight comes back to the rear tire again, the bike does a big shimmy as the wheels snap back into alignment. Modern bike design focuses on the centralization of mass, and this makes for quicker turning but it also decreases stability. This makes the shimmy even larger, and my leg serves to counter this instability. My extended leg acts exactly like the long pole that tightrope walkers use in that it DE-centralizes the mass for a moment. When the shimmy is over, I pull my leg back in. To the extent my outside leg is locked onto the tank, my inside leg (pole) stability is transferred to the bike and minimizes the rear wheel shimmy. This is similar to your #4 but it's about stability when the wheels pop back into alignment and not just keeping the bike upright.
Back wheel shimmy? F. I never experienced that. Or tank slap. Tell me more! --I sit up if braking harder than usual. Weight transfer, wind resistance, blah.
I did the leg dangle going 60mph as a split second reaction to my front wheel losing traction during a tighter-than-expected corner. It saved me laying the bike down and sliding into a tree.
Exactly. Helps with balance and center of gravity
Inside Business - Nice maneuver bro. Are you still in one piece currently?
@@carlcampbell6827 Thanks, I am and haven't had any close calls like that since thankfully. Winters coming soon so I don't want to jinx it haha!
Only Rossi knows why,..reason is...he thougt he is going to fall so he puts his leg down.Decade later..its a sience, ha ha
haha, BS
He got a cramp, stuck his leg out, noticed he had a better line, was like fuck ya, kept his leg out took the inside got the position. Got yelled at by his crew explained his theory and the rest is history. Her we are today trying to figure it out as in science. I don’t think Rossi was getting all technical while trying to kick ass.
The leg dangle has been around for a very long time. Before Rossi. Another video explains who learned from who and traced it back to a racer from the 70’s who when asked why he started it said “I dunno?”
LOL, Exactly...it looks like an "Oh-oooh" move to me.
They should call it chicken leg.
Rossi once said in an interview: "I don't know why I do it, but I know why they do it."
WHAT interview? WHEN?? Please cite your source.
Sourceeee
Ludwig:
1) An interview I saw on TV
2) Probably over 10 years ago
Hope that helps.
Actually:
"Rossi made an interesting comment the other day regarding the leg out thing...he said '' I don't know why i do it.....but i know why everyone else dose it''.......Classic statment !!!!" (id SPOOKY) - Aug 6 2009,
forums.superbikeschool.com/topic/1206-rossi-sticking-out-his-leg-why/page/4/
I also remember someone posting it on the old CBR250.com forums, so I'm definitely not the only person who saw that interview!
Geez it's all over the web. Ever heard of Google?
It allows you to reposition the pecker when you can't scratch!
You're a literal hero. I've been wondering why some riders do this exact thing, and why some don't, but every time I googled it, explanations for the leg touching the ground were the only thing coming up, not the leg dangle, so thank you so much for this.
#4 makes a lot of sense, as that's what Flat-trackers do.
When I was learning all those years ago, I was taught NEVER do this, if you foot "catches" the road, it'll snap your shin like a chicken wing.
Not everything racer does means you should do it on the street.
Besides, two feet on the pegs and knees on the tank makes you more 'planted' on the bike, hence, more stable. Ride a bicycle with no hands on the bars and no feet on the pedals will illustrate this quite well.
You're not Rossi. Ride like you want to live and you'll have the best chance of doing both.
Best comment to this video by far. I'm on-board with your line of thinking. Cheers.
Blah blah blah
“Ride like you want to live” best motorcycle quote I’ve read
Chicken chicken chicken
Thing is, almost everyone does it now.
Doesn't most of the leg danglers practice a lot with riding flattrack? Muscle memory and just feeling more confident while sliding leads to that since flattracker do it a lot
Burwarn Rossi does indeed do a ton of flat track training
That seems a very likely explanation. I used to ride mx, scrambles, TT scrambles, and some road racing. I consider the reflex to dangle a leg a very strong influence that translates into confidence. As for mx'rs putting the foot out in front, it was largely to keep it forward to keep from getting drawn into the passing turf and ruining the intended line - probably among other senses of balance, etc.
The foot going forward softens the weight transfer and helps delay the weight transfer until the tire reaches maximum deflection.(search pnumatic trail and tire deflection videos) I'm sure it helps with aero braking and pulling the bike into the lean angle also! Also any time you touch the ground your brain receives alot more feed back, you know exactly how far your leaning. The lighter the bike is the more obvious this is (super moto or bicycle) ruclips.net/video/ZlMywlO53TA/видео.html
Before I even watch they dangle the leg to stabilise and transfer more weight to the rear of the bike , hence more grip on the rear tyre during the weight transfer to the front wheel during hard braking.
Now that sounds like a proper answer.
Dangling the leg will definitely increase drag substantially, just look at how small changes in aerodynamics can increase or decrease drag coefficient. It will also steer you into the corner. The other thing is that it allows your body to relax for a moment, staying in that tight crouched position for an entire race must be hard on the body (mainly the hips).
4 yes. motocross + supermoto style
Why does this guy sound like you?
I disagree with number 2. In the other sports mentioned they are trying to push backwards on the ground to accelerate themselves forwards whereas the riders are trying to push back with their arms to hold themselves back against the braking forces. Putting their leg forwards, even when not braking will add more force on their arms to hold them back. During braking it will increase the forces on their arms required to hold themselves up.
At a constant speed (or stationary), putting their leg backwards will cause gravity to rotate the body around its CoG, moving the leg downwards and the torso backwards. Similarly, during braking putting their leg downwards means the braking forces will push the leg forwards which will rotate the body backwards around its CoG, including pushing their torso backwards. This means that less force is on their arms, by using their core muscle and the backwards rotation caused by their lowered leg during braking.
Tried that on BMX as a child, got myself two months in hospital with a broken femur.
There is no technical explanation - they don't do it every time or every corner. The best explanation/justification I've heard is that it helps blood circulation in the leg (otherwise restricted by the serve bend in the knee caused by riding crouch for aerodynamics); can't do it in a straight line - tucked in for aerodynamics, can't do it in corners - obvious. Only in braking is there the opportunity without disadvantage.
Street riders often stretch their legs in the straight ahead because they are not going for every ounce of speed (aerodynamics).
"Leg-dangling"ffs!
STUPID!!!! It's what you do if you are braking very hard at low speeds so if the front wheel steps out you can save it.
Fucking idiots in here (look at the comments!) think it's some mysterious clever thing rather than a simple precaution.
Graeme SYDNEY well said... this more logical.
With Vale being the oldest, this would make sense as to why he's the one to start doing it.
Sorry dude but that is absurd. Watch them all doing it like line dancers.
Its not absurd. If youve ever driven a sportbike youd know on a longer trip legs begin to feel like shit... you will want to take a break and walk around abit. And this is by driving casually... not 100% race speeds. Its still the same reason... exhausting being in an uncomfortable position.
I drive a sportbike irl and when i take mere 20km trips i dangle my legs and stand up (if possible) on my bike near the end of it to stretch my legs and butt. And this is without wearing a tight racingsuit, i wear alot more comfortable outfit but is still protective.
I can only imagine whats it like racing a bike in a tight suit for an entire length of a race.
If your front wheel steps out theres no way to save it anyway... no point in thinking its possible.
I would add another to the list of reasons - comfort impact. Straitening the leg would have a benefit in giving some relief/rejuvenation vs being folded up.
SportbikerNZ that is what I used to think
I used to do something similar on longish trips, but not racing. OTOH, racing bikes are fairly uncomfortable
Dirk Bruere I do the same thing on longer trips that are lacking in curves. I thought I was the only one, guess not
Was looking for this. I have damaged knees and ride with a very tight knee angle. Dangling each leg in 1-2 corners each lap stops the pain in my knees.
i thought it was to aid stability when the rear wheel slips
Coming from dirt bikes to road bikes it was a habit at first but found I only ended up doing it when the rear gets loose coming into a corner.
I was thinking the same thing. With the leg not planted, its weight could move to stabilize if needed (kind of like a cheetah or kangaroo tail).
This is the biggest reason. It provides a counter balance when the bike shifts uncomfortably under braking
Amen. It's solved. When the bike is sliding around on the track from moving so fast while braking. It's to help keep the bike upright.
I think he addresses this in the video when he talks about centre of mass, and how shifting the centre of mass can prevent the rear wheel sliding so much
I messed around with this when running parking lot drills a week ago, felt surprisingly natural. Ran it for a session or two on-track today, it was amazing how much it affected hard braking while hanging off (in terms of physical exertion). My instructor didn't like it for some reason. But my hips feel awesome now from all the stretching.
when i learned leg out in motorcross corners it was explained as a way to get weight forward, but that was a long time ago and im a bad student. also having seen a couple of your videos pop up, this is the one that made me sure i subscribed, i like the way you went about the discussion.
I love thishit.
Presented with observation, theory, confirmation, rebuttal, speed and panache'.
The internet is not broken and all future discussions are validated by its' existence.
New subscriber and looking forward to new presentations.
"Leg-dangling"ffs!
STUPID!!!! It's what you do if you are braking very hard at low speeds so if the front wheel steps out you can save it.
Fucking idiots in here (look at the comments!) think it's some mysterious clever thing rather than a simple precaution.
Yes a good explanation but not captured is that the drag factor is easily determined by measuring the different effects on top speed of being in a tuck, sitting up (as if braking), hanging off to one side (as if braking) and hanging a leg. The difference in speed is due to CdA as the power would be effectively constant.
Although little thought has gone into actually analysing
The fuck
is wrong
with your
enter button?
Agreed.
8. A dangling leg could act as a mass dampener adding stability during corner entry.
Yes, that was told in some races I watch last year by the reportes.
That's what I always thought the reason for the dangle was for, too.
Exactly what I think is missed in this list of proper reasons for dangling.
Your leg works like a cheetahs tail while running on higher speed. As you said the leg works like a counter force to that bike swibble what you get under hard breaking + cornering and makes the bike more stable.
That makes even more sense if you think about your upper body while under hard breaking. Its stiffed up, or more than usual.
Normaly your Torso and arms are loose to compensate movement of your bike.
So if your upper body stiffs up, its usefull to compensate swibble with other parts of your body.
great idea
The foot going forward softens the weight transfer and helps delay the weight transfer until the tire reaches maximum deflection.(search pnumatic trail and tire deflection videos) I'm sure it helps with aero braking and pulling the bike into the lean angle also! Also any time you touch the ground your brain receives alot more feed back, you know exactly how far your leaning. The lighter the bike is the more obvious this is (super moto or bicycle) ruclips.net/video/ZlMywlO53TA/видео.html
Wayne Gardner was known to dangle from time to time, I have a poster of him doing it back in the 80’s
you're the poster
I dont think you have ever ridden dirt?
We stick our leg out to catch the bike if it should slide out in the corner.
"Weight transfer" my arse. We just dont want to crash!
Theory #4 is what I’ve always said was the reasoning behind the leg dangle. Good video again. You brought up theories I hadn’t thought of nor heard about.
I'm no professional but by studying the videos and watching documentaries and having experience riding dirt bikes, supermoto and street/sport bikes the answer is very simple. Its number 4, the others all help out to control a slide. Why would they slide you may ask? To brake later into the corner and carry more speed! If you watch supermoto racers they all slide into corners while they have their foot out pushing the bike down because it's a fast way of doing it. Marc is infamous for sliding the rear wheel and having the leverage and foot out gives him more control of it especially considering how late he brakes into corners. Other racers do it to incase that happens because of how hard they brake using the front brake, which lifts the rear wheel and when it gets set back down might induce a slide.
So should I do a Leg dangle if I am doing a Kneedown on a Supermoto?
Lil Mango it's a moto x hangover it's where they all start racing simple.
Rossi trains on flat track bikes and dirtbikes. Its a habit that transferred over.
Have you ever rode a bicycle and went through a sharp turn? It’s only natural. Or maybe it’s not and I should be in motogp.
It makes you feel cool... that's it lol
Yes.. to prepare for any unstability to happens
It's not normal, unless you lean forward at the same time, if helps distribute more weight on your front wheel, so you're less likely to lose traction.
This was exactly what I was going to say, was doing this before Rossi did it whilst riding on the road, it also helps gauge speed (in real terms, not just numbers on a speedo) and road camber too.
I'm an old former 2 class AMA Expert License holder (125cc motocross and 250cc Road Race, both back in the 70's, and also raced some flat track and competed in Trials competitions and Enduros)), who now rides a highly modified S1000RR...my take is that I/other top riders in the 70's learned to use that technique in motocross to help steer with the rear wheel around corners, it helped with the center of gravity...and of course in motocross if you slid too much you could use it to help stabilize by making contact with the ground, but the idea was to never let your foot touch...I had never really thought about it relating to Rossi in GP, but back when I bought my S1000RR (2012) I found it helpful (not to mention fun) to slide it into corners to help with corner placement and to get the rear (and front) tire pointed in the right direction and I noticed I was naturally dropping my inward foot just like I did as a youngster in motocross...it wasn't until later that I started researching the idea that I became aware Rossi had popularized it.
steve Fowler Question. How old are you? I just ask because as an older rider I noticed how it’s not as easy as it once was to ride anymore. I refused to get a Harley and ride to Starbucks but I honestly wonder how much longer can I be in this sport before I just can’t do it anymore. Can’t imagine life at that point! I’m 50 now and it’s getting much harder to deal with the heat, low energy, fatigue, etc. just curious.
@Dave...I'm 61 and the only issue I have is my heart still thinks I have the reflexes of a 20 year old, and I do not, so it is a constant battle when I'm on my S1000RR to ride well within my limits...at 61 I certainly don't want to get off it, even at modest speeds...it's a dilemma for me that I constantly fight...as to my health, I'm good to go, I still work out at the gym 2 to 4 times a week and still run about 1 1/2 to 2 miles twice a week and still weigh about what I did in my 20's....I would suggest you consider doing some weight training and some aerobic activity (run, bike, etc.), it may improve your energy and outlook....good luck.
steve fowler, sounds like very good advice to me... rock on bud!! I'm 60 myself and am very interested in giving trials a shot. I see tons of practice involved, but the fun kinda practice.
I don't understand why nobody else mentioned a reference to motocross, that they just simply carried it over by habit. Since MANY, if not ALL, motoGP riders start in motocross.
I've been riding since the beginning of January 2021 and this past week I've found myself doing this outta habit. I didn't see anyone else do it, it's just what feels most comfortable for me when turning. I guess it's cool to know professional riders do this too, thought it was a bad habit I was developing.
newwbein - Are you still in one piece after 1 1/2 year on the bike? Are you more conservative at this point?
One reason could be to create a 'pendulum effect', with the leg coming back to the foot peg, leaning the bike is faster and smoother, other than that one more rather primitive reason could be to trigger a last minute alarm for other racers around within close proximity before going for the lean (not to block, but to avoid possible clash)
sorry mate all wrong it is coming from dirt bike racing AND IT IS FOR SLIDING
Supermoto technique, too, which Vale also does.
Ummm, you mean #4? He spent 5 min on that, just saying.
I think this is correct, it helps them control the rear tire when it starts breaking lose when they are backing it in before they sweep into the corner. It also helps them carry more speed in while ‘throwing it into the corner’ under passes and under the intense entrances these guys will push it to entering corners, only so much muscle upper body can help it then comes down to these little techniques that helps them hold it when manipulating the bike on that fine edge. No doubt they don’t do it the same way every lap but when it matters I would imagine they are really using everything and then some to keep them self on two wheels.
Crushonius exactly man 😂
Thank you. I dont know why people like complicating things. Anyone who's gone offloading with a simple mountain bike would know this. It's just simple a reflex when sliding a bike. And it's not even always necessary. I feel the same about knee sliding, I've been overtaken too many time on the road by BMW GS1200 doing serious lean angles without even putting knee out, while I'm there focusing on knee out like an idoit. Moral of the story, let your body react naturally instead of trying to copy other riders.
Rossi is also driving motocross bikes. Perhaps the leg dangling carried over to his GP driving.
Danilo marc also does.
Exactly
What Baby Yaga was referring to was that you called motorcycle riding, "driving" which only applies to cars and other transport such as trucks, trains and horse drawn carriages. You also referred to MotoGP as "GP" which is a term usually associated with motor racing. Perhaps Baby Yaga was very rude and childish by nitpicking your post. I understood your post. The name "Baby Yaga" seems to fit the mentality of his/her post.
According to Simon Crafar in Motovudu - Dark Art of Performance it is weight shifting with your leg to reduce how much the back wheel comes around (backing in) under heavy braking. Best explanation I've heard. Similar to No.2 & 4 here.
Underrated comment here
It keeps the bike more upright yet moving the weight still so the heat and wear in the tires is in a more optimal spot rather than beating up the section of rubber they use over and over.
Coming from a dirt background on lose surfaces when you would lean the bike instinctively but you know the grip wont be there the weight gets transferred to turn with less angle but on asphalt the wear and heat in the tires is crucial so the same process has different advantages
Thanks for the video!
I myself think its mostly for keeping someone from coming in underneath you as you enter the turn. Keep in mind that these guys are riding pretty much at the limit so having someone go right up against you on the inside while you are managing your traction can be very unsettling. And yes, you can feel the drag in the braking zone.
I thought Rossi's experiments showed that there was no difference in his times whether he was dangling a leg or not.
A simple explanation would be collective behaviour, most racers doing it because the fast guys do it, quite like the experiment with the 5 monkeys and a ladder:
www.wisdompills.com/2014/05/28/the-famous-social-experiment-5-monkeys-a-ladder/amp/
I've read Rossi saying that while not making actual lap time improvements, the leg dangle just "Feels right".
May not make tangible lap time improvements but for some riders it gives then a little more confidence coming into the corner. I'm not nearly fast enough to test it myself but that's what I have been told
+ Curve Ahead I don't disagree with the point you are making but the story you linked to was not a valid experiment. It was a 'story' made up to illustrate the point. The fable was based off a 1920's experiment whose results pointed to a similar conclusion but not as striking as the 'fable' illustrates.
The foot going forward softens the weight transfer and helps delay the weight transfer until the tire reaches maximum deflection.(search pnumatic trail and tire deflection videos) I'm sure it helps with aero braking and pulling the bike into the lean angle also! Also any time you touch the ground your brain receives alot more feed back, you know exactly how far your leaning. The lighter the bike is the more obvious this is (super moto or bicycle) ruclips.net/video/ZlMywlO53TA/видео.html
yeah,, if im too fast going into a corner, my leg comes off naturally and it gives more feedback. Kudos for the video. Keep them coming!
Why not ask the riders?
Rossi already said, "it's just a habit." Lorenzo said, "we do it for front tire in hard braking." Which people have concluded to mean you put more weight on the bars. All you have to do is try it and you'll instantly see the huge amount of force you put on the front suspension.
Dangling a leg off to the side doesn't put a "huge amount of force" on the front suspension. It's barely enough to overcome stiction in the forks, if at all.
"barely enough to overcome stiction?" Are you dumb? Their rear wheel lifts off the ground...
Lorenzo doesn't do it. Or does he? Haven't noticed.
What? Too easy!
They dangle their legs to prepare incase the motorcycle wobbles.
Close but no cheese. ;)
no actually i believe youre really close, personally having ridden offroad my entire life i find sticking a leg out early like in gp moves the CoG slightly so that as the bike tips in there is a longer/smoother change in the CoG creating a smoother easier transition to the corner. the smoother transition means its less likely to slide and easier to grip the corner. its almost identical to just sticking a knee out, imho it is purely rider preference to how they wanna tackle the corner.
Because of the new smaller bikes with short wheelbase..
Joshua Koch to me it looks pretty obvious that you put it out as a counter to the rear brake in case the back starts to come out..otherwise you wouldnt be able to correct the body weight quick enough given your setting up to lean in
oobopshbam81 I guess so
i’ve done this as a rider and can say for me it helps to make a more abrupt change in center of gravity and also helps corner entry when you have notice an aspect of that certain corner and that aspect caused you as a rider to decide a different approach angle/line to choose. last minute messin around.
I been doing this technique since the 1990's on BMX bicycles a lot. It helps me keep my balance around corners at high speeds without wrecking or slowing down.
It's a natural reaction from dirt biking.
@Sunyata - Nobody was sticking a knee out, either, until King Kenny took the world by storm. That YOU have never instinctively thrust the trusty outrigger into the air means nothing about the maneuver, but says loads about your personal evolution while riding.
@Sunyata - You're talking to the wrong rider, douchette. You don't know ME from Adam- did your racing include Riverside? Ontario? Sears Point? Maybe you ran/run Willow Springs? Then STFU, hoser.
Perhaps you should try the arrogant approach with Rossi? Hell, man-up and challenge HIM to a one-on-one race? I'm certain you will prevail...
@Sunyata - You come off as arrogant, bud. My go-to with the 'holier than thou' crowd is always ad hominem. You really should call Rossi. I'd pay good money to see THAT! Poor champ getting waxed by a guy with a name that sounds like a beach snack. You win much, or just master the bragadocio?
Lots of guys take one foot off after the race (or practice) to stretch back out. I haven't noticed if people favor the shifting side over the braking side- If I cramped up, it was usually a universal thing?
First guy I ever noticed sticking a foot out going into a corner; while racing; was Gary Fisher at Laguna Seca the year Cal Rayburn tracked him down (and his over-heating Yamaha) on that big twin. 1971? '72? (DuHamel threw his Kawasaki away on the first lap?) Passed him going through the cork screw, of all places. But I digress. GF started taking his right leg off the peg going into, what, #10? (The RH turn before the last hair pin?) He was still in the lead. I was between the corkscrew and the LH sweeper; inside of the track, obviously spectating. I didn't have clear view of the last LHer, so I don't know what he was doing there, and everything happens so fast in the turns I was watching, there was no time for him to be sticking a leg out. I couldn't see his entry to the cork screw from where I sat, so, again, no idea how he was entering that LHer. But he kept hanging a crooked keg out going into the RHer (let's call it#10, since Google images says it is) that I could see, even after Rayburn had taken the lead. Interestingly, on the cool-down lap, Fisher kept both feet on his pegs while almost everyone else had one foot off down the short straight before #10, if not both feet. IDK if Fisher was cramping, or what, because his fade was pretty substantial. But he was consistantly taking his foot off going into #10, though still bent 90 degrees or so.
My instincts are MX related, and every time I lose one end of the bike, those instincts are to unweight the inside, usually by sticking my foot out. IDK if it's self-preservation, or good technique, but, at 61, it isn't going to change (old dog, new trick). And I have not raced anything for, literally, decades. No bike now.
I was very fortunate to have gotten to watch a lot of dirt track racing at Ascot. Timing is everything, and I saw Gary Scott and Kenny Roberts race Novice, then Juniors, and then off into their Expert careers. They rode differently on the dirt, and they were, style-wise, at polar opposites of the spectrum on asphalt. Scott stayed tucked-in behind his fairing, and KR was ass-crack on the edge of the seat, knee noticeably out 6-8" in the turns. While Kel Carruthers kinda stuck his knee out, his style was modest in comparison. And Roberts was the only one doing it- for awhile. But as his success on-track started to happen, so did the emulation of his style, with hilariously varying degrees of success. But, soon enough, almost all the fast guys were doing it. It's really a shame that Rayburn wasn't there. Kenny might have stuck around a little longer, had he some proper competition. I never saw Agostini race, but, judging by the pictures, he started riding more like KR once KR was in Europe.
I've wasted your time with these babbling stories to make a point. Things change. Even the fastest way around a track. I've watched riding styles evolve over 50 years and many inches of travel, and someone, somewhere, is already riding some weird way that might win a World's Championship one day. The leg dangling works for Rossi, and others, and I disagree that it makes no difference; especially your point that fast lap times are the result of getting off the corner well. Fast lap times are a by-product of momentum- not so much NOW, with all the HP and the means to get that power down, but, all else being equal, he who is fastest into, through, and out of the corner is going to win. You can't sacrifice one for another. And your hard charge off can be negated by another's late braking, bike position and line. Pure lap times (like qualifying?) are the result of momentum.
And there is the physics of the weight out, off-setting to the centrifical force, albeit to a minor degree. Not to mention the sail-brake that dangling leg creates, both slowing and pulling your towards the apex. So what if it is a minute difference, added all together...100ths = 10ths = seconds. Combined with a rider's psychology of just feeling better riding their way, who's to say Rossi isn't appreciably faster this way, or that. Me? You? Anyone?!
Truce?
@Sunyata - Something to leave you to ponder...
ruclips.net/video/dEYEn_fpv-4/видео.html
You're the best explaining this things. Thank you very much
Are you nervous on your theories? Why you look so pale?
I think you need to dangle you leg more often for good blood circulation.
🤔💥
Good one
Tbh it’s probably just the lighting
Because he’s nordic lmao
Your videos are underrated Mike
Holding the leg out functions in two ways. Properties of physics are in play here...think of the tightrope walker using the pole to stabilize his movements on the rope. First the stick provides a high level of feedback that wouldn’t be available without the stick. Additionally, the stick is used to take corrective action by moving it left or right. When the bike is under hard braking, the tendency of the rear wheel swing around the steering axis is high. Making the body wider by sticking the leg out makes that swinging motion more tactile and manageable. Moment of Inertia I believe.
i think it might be something rossi picked up from dirt bike racing and started doing it on the tarmac from muscle memory
I do it since I think it adds more stability while driving through corners. I get a better feeling while driving corners if I dangle my leg. For me it acts like a knee pad to show you when you've reached the possible limit before loosing it. I like to do this especially in bad weather conditions such as rain or ice on the street. It just gives you that extra bit of feeling.
You do it while cornering?
Bl4rc You mean you're scared of banking the bike lol
Bl4rc i agree. It happens naturally i guess
Doing it mid-corner is horrible
"Leg-dangling"ffs!
STUPID!!!! It's what you do if you are braking very hard at low speeds so if the front wheel steps out you can save it.
Fucking idiots in here think it's some mysterious clever thing rather than a simple precaution.
I know as an agressive rider myself, i catch myself doing the same thing but i never watch moto gp, and nobody i ride with does it either. I DO however have a motorcross background which is where I think I get it from. I can tell you my personal experience is that it is a confidence AND a control thing for me.. I can tell you that i do it to prevent a low side when entering hard on the brakes. After you turn in, the bike is typically set and theres little fear of low side, however you are low enough that the knee pads double as having the foot out while mid turn. I can tell you that from personal experience that i can NOT apply as much rotational torque on the bike, because i am trying to pull it down from the furthest distance over the top of the bike only. Rather than a knee in the tank, or over the seat, and the other pushing the inside peg down.. Think of it as trying to loosen a fastener by applying torque with JUST your index finger wrapped around the bolt. You can rotate it, but if you can get a grip of it, it's still difficult to turn.. Now, turn the same fastener in the same manner, but this time, also use your thumb to help push the same direction. More torque.. Almost unlimited..
So, for confidence and control while entering a turn is why i do it. Then while turning in, i rely on my knee for confidence and control. 3 points of contact during almost the entire turn..
Hope this helps any..
From my own experience racing I got the distinct feeling that this is why Rossi did it back in 2005 when he got into the corner a bit too hot for that tight a line and anticipated the feeling of loosing the front, so he put his foot out to catch the front if needed.
I always thought it was number 4. But this is a wonderful breakdown of all the possible other reasons. Excellent content!
Kudos 🤙✌️To Mr Mike for explaining it so beautifully in just less than 13 minutes was just an eye 👀 opening for me as a rider.... Appreciated ☺️ got to learn alot from watching it....and pasting all the techniques for my next practice sessions and so on...I am an intermediate freestylist all the way from India, West Bengal (Indo-Bhutan Border). Jaigaon...
Thanks for the lessons.... keep going
Good luck 🤞😃
i started doing this naturally .ever before watching moto gp..it helps carry more speed into the corner n be stable
I thought it was because the vibration at that angle jingles your dingle dangles and letting that leg hang lessens the vibration on your dingle dangles and wingle wangles, any thoughts?
what be nice to explain how Lorenzo and Zarco ride with no leg out and yet still have great speed
Rossi didnt invent anything here. A) This was seen in dirtbiking for ages. B) we used to do it as kids riding 50ccm Thomos bikes as 10 year old kids, without ever having seen any race or anyone advising us to do it, well, maybe we saw it from our older brothers, etc, but it was just something that felt natural/ cool, before going into a corner. Kind of like gauging the corner a bit. That it actually would have an effect and help riding the bike through the corner would not have come to our minds.
I used this technique during high speed to dive into sharp or low speed corners, it gives me extra leverage and control. Its also a plus and perfect time to stretch out your leg during racing.
I think moto racers stick out a leg for the same reason hire wire walkers use a pole, for the balancing effect.
He had a leg cramp and now it's the new cool thing to do.
Deffo not cool, it makes you look like a dick.
--- A mad technique. best to keep limbs onboard.
OMG i thought i would have never heard the names. SCHWANTZ, RAINEY, GARDNER, MOMOLA etc again.. Thanks bro !!!!! You've made my day
Awesome video bro, like the step by step breakdown
I do it all the time while making sharp turns to adjust the forces. It just came automatically to my style. I didn't realise it was such a big deal until this video. Lol
Not sure about your analysis. A motocross rider sticks his (her) leg out to the front, not the side, to get weight over the front wheel so that it has traction in the turn. Similarly, you have your body more vertical to get weight over the contact patch to generate grip. This is very different to a GP circuit where the tarmac allows grip, so the priority becomes controlling the CofG to keep the bike more upright.
Mo Saito yeah rossi got it from when he does motocross
Indeed. Same with rear break to ''set the bike up''. Rossi is one of the riders to never use his rear break.
Should I do a Leg angle when I am doing a kneedown on a Supermoto?
"Leg-dangling"ffs!
STUPID!!!! It's what you do if you are braking very hard at low speeds so if the front wheel steps out you can save it.
Fucking idiots in here (look at the comments!) think it's some mysterious clever thing rather than a simple precaution.
riding position on an mx bike abd a GP bike is different, thus the different angle. I think its a stability thing and it stems from riders wanting more control in a slide, spending more time on mx bikes to get "the feeling" and instinctively sticking a leg out. i find my bike is way more stable with one leg out, when its pre corner or pulling up to the lights.
They use it for turn signal lel
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Brilliant
I tried it to see what the difference was between one way or the other. I found that 1. It does feel like you create more drag at speed. 2. You feel more stable if your other leg is holding your weight at the gas tank with the inner thigh 3. Your foot more easily returns to the foot peg and positions just right. As opposed to moving it back to the right position for the turn. 4. It becomes very natural feeling and is easily adapted to your style. 5. Like many things in sport riding not one thing is best for every corner. In some corners a traditional braking style is/feels better. Also riders do things that compliment their own personal physical attributes and style.
I do it on purpose as a swing of the boot helps to create a forced weight transfer to the inside of the corner, actually tipping the bike in the corner, as while braking-it stabilises the bike and keeps it upright, so a lot of force required by weight shift to lean the bike, and the foot swing does help a lot, while keeping your body on top of the bike for control of the grip balance on corner entry
It was Rossi’s best explanation at the time to cover up his “oooooohshiiiiiiiiit” moment.
And true to form, the Valeban lemmings bought it hook, line and sinker!
I do that on bicycles, just for more balance/stability.
#4. move the CG. I even did it on the street, usually when entering a corner way faster than I anticipated, lol.
Love all your Vids, I myself test the leg dangle on my sport bike and the best part is: it transfer my weight from half front (came from break) to rear (ready to turn) and this tip helps me a few kmph faster when cornering.
this technique saved me many times not to fly out of the road, but it came spontaneously, and now I use it constantly
99.99% of superbike or gp riders started out on motocross or flat track racing as kids.
W
YOUR ABSOLUTELY CORRECT
not one time I heard the word stability
Yeah, I remember doing this thing unconsciously, when riding on rain and the rear wheel slips. I'm not a sport racer or something like that.
@@carlosescobar5995 Why those two comments don't have more likes?
Otherwise why would Marq slide his foot on the tarmac so hard his sole started to smoke while his rear wheel was in the air...
Why not just ask a moto gp rider why they do it?
Because trade secrets.
@@Don.of. i used to work at Circuit of the Americas and i did ask their engineers. It is to provide counter weight to stop the bike from wobbling before entering the corner.
@Sunyata who knows. i have tried it and all i found was it put tons of weight on my inside arm, maybe help[ed turn in ?? sure it depends on the bike and rider style. maybe lorenzo was smooth enough he did not need the counterweight in the first place if the bike was not getting out of shape. some might argue . but iam not an engineer . i dont do it....
@Sunyata exit speed is dependent on the corner entry?.. or so I thought...
@@Ryan-dm3lv Far KING Bullsh!t.
It also allows the 'varient' of jerking the leg back....to offset some percieved need to alter the situation, or feedback. Also, the airdrag preloads the bike for rotation in the impending corner's direction.
I think its a weight transfer thing where the braking g forces make your body lurch forward, you have your hands on the bars which is hinged and the only other point is the outside peg. The force on the outside peg helps push the back of the bike around since it has less traction since all the weight is on the front. So the dangling leg uses weight transfer to bring the back end around to increase the turn in feel
Dude! You are WAY over thinking it. Do you race? It's ALL about lateral center of gravity. Try it. I guess it's always been obvious to us because of airplaine building backgrounds - which I guess caused us to always think in terms of the different COG's when setting up cars AND bikes. When Rossi first said in an interview that he 'didn't know why, it just felt better' I instantly know the reason - especially after trying it. If you are one who's style makes use of "backing it in" (letting the rear hang out during braking) then hanging your leg to the inside give you some influence over the lateral COG and and increased level of control over the bike. To visualize it imagine a birds-eye view of a rider during braking into a corner, while the rear stepping out (to the outside of the corner) while dangling the inside leg. Try it - there is no thought required. It's very natural - - the more the rear steps out, you naturally tend to put your inside leg further out - - - forced to pull the leg in as you lean over of course. Also - ther is NO comparison to dirt riding as there is no "prolonged" heavy braking soley by the front - and the leg is typically put out while under throttle - try it. It seems very obvious to me and all my riding buds. In all fairness, it is not imediately obvious to those not used to thinking in terms of COG in 3 axis. Cheers and Thanks for the vid.
Motocross riders do it cause if they are about to Crash they can just 'kick' the ground and get back up
A zeppelin no it gives more stability in motocross racing
In motocross the forward weight transfer of sticking a leg out helps to put more weight over the front of the bike to get it to grip and turn better. Once it's out there it can also be used to help save a slide if the front washes out but that's not the reason it's there in the first place. It's a bit like knee-down on racing bikes, the weight transfer of hanging off to the inside of the corner changes the centre of gravity and allows a higher corner speed for any given angel of lean, but once the knee is on the ground (or even the elbow) it can be used to help save slides - but again, it's not the reason it's there in the first place.
It’s for extra stability on the rear wheel
CoG
New subscriber here, like it a lot, your channel looks professional and I learn useful stuff. Keep it going!!
Riktigt bra clip! Thanks for a really good analysis :)
watch a cheetah, it acts like a tail
First thing I thought, using the leg as a mass damper.
The obvious thing would be to just ask the riders why they do it.
That technique has been used on other motorcycle races, different motorcycles, different circuits, not a new technique
Not necessarily an appropriate technique every time, either!
Here's a theory - @7:10 time in video the back wheel is off the ground. assuming it stays off the ground the only thing that would keep the mid to rear of the motorcycle floating to the outside of the turn is using the outside leg muscles to push it back in. You can get more leverage to achieve this with your inside leg off the bike. If the back wheel is not getting airborne while trail braking, then this trick is not needed.
i used to work at Circuit of the Americas and i asked a few moto2 and moto america riders. It is to provide counter weight to the bike so it stops wobbling and settles down right before entering a corner. that why it doesnt matter if the foot is more foreword or back, it is the distance from the bike outward that provides the counter weight.
he didn't pass gibineau.. he ran him off the track
james perreault still won :)
That is passing but with some extra spice.
It's just instinct of a biker that kicks in whenever a left hander arrives.....it works as counter weight for a wobbly back
Don't they just dangle the leg for balance?
Try to balance an egg on a spoon, and then tell us about balance.
7:35 How exactly is the combined COG not somewhere in the straight line between Bike COG and Rider COG? Magic?
Yes, you are right. The combined CoG should be located between the position of the two parts’ CoG in a two-part system. This must be a small post-processing mistake on that figure.
I do that on my street, bikes, sport bikes, because of the extreme angle when I have the ball of my foot on the foot peg, especially while cornering. It tends to shut the circulation off being in that almost Crouch position. I do it to get the circulation back to do my feet after an hour or so depending on which bike I’m riding..
back when I was road racing in the 70s and 80s, winning six championships, two time national champion, on RDs. Mostly, I had my foot pegs relocated, back and up, which was legal for modified production. when I was younger, then, and I didn’t need to get the circulation, flowing back to my lower legs back then for some reason. Even on my factory Road race TZ250, I never had the urge