How much faster is a professional motorcycle racer?
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- Опубликовано: 22 сен 2018
- At #CadwellPark, 2016 British Superstock Champion and BSB racer, Taylor Mackenzie, was equipped with the same completely standard BMW #S1000RR and a datalogger as BikeSocial's Content Editor, Michael Mann who is representing the average #TrackDay Fast Group rider.
But how much faster is the pro, where and how? Head to the features section of www.bikesocial.co.uk for the full analysis: www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial...
These are individual timed laps offering a little detail on just how good the pro racer is by comparison. And for the full data analysis: www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial...
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I used to ride with a guy some years back who was well into his 60s, he was a retired racer, not at bsb level though, and there was about 6 of us who did regular track days and without sounding arrogant we could all ride a bike. This guy rode a mk1 speed triple so no where near as quick as any of our bikes and a hell of a lot heavier but on the twisties none of us could keep up with him. After months of pestering he came along to Snetterton for a track day. He told us that he hadn't rode that circuit for over 20 years and it was nearly that long since he raced. The last bike he raced was a RD350LC and he didn't want to risk his triumph so one of the guys let him use his spare bike, a early cbr600f. He hadn't ever ridden a "modern 600" and the rest of the group were riding 600s from the mid 2000s. He did a couple of laps to get used to the bike and then he spent the rest of the session making us look like a bunch of kids doing their cbt. So, in my experience, yes racers are a hell of a lot faster!
that's awesome! lol
@old man strength 58 now and personally speaking now I'm older I have less fear but I ache like hell for days after. Oh, and you don't bounce as well when you bin it either!
@old man strength lol, right there with you mate, I'm OK if I keep busy but I've just had a week off to spend some time with my daughters and I've seized up, back to work on Monday and it will nearly killed me!
@old man strength yep, I work with guys less than half my age and I can run rings round them, no stamina and as weak as piss. Although I haven't done it for years when my short amateur boxing career ended i took to body building. I also competed in iron man contests in the 90s although I definitely didn't break any records lol. My eldest daughter is a wrestler and she is moving in with me in a few months, I'm hoping that this will give me a push to get back in the gym simply to get back to some level of fitness!
@old man strength just had a look at your channel, you have my total respect sir and I hope you keep it up for as long as your body will allow, I'm a bit knackered nowadays but I really miss being supremely fit.👍👍👍👍
“I wanna go fast in a safe way.’’
Rides an S1000rr first time on a track..
😂
Track = safer
Track riding is safer and in fact modern super bikes have multiple levels of safety controls. If he had set his wheelie control properly it would not wheelie at all. Newer bikes have cornering ABS which is truly quite amazing.
I was always convinced I’d be a few seconds a lap quicker if I had someone else’s money for parts when I crashed :)
Even faster if they can pay for the track day, leathers, helmet, gloves, boots, TIRES, BRAKES, GEARS, CHAINS AND FUEL!
That's the beauty of downsizing, you can go nearer 100 % of the potential performance for less (or WAY less) money than a superbike
Same! I don't care about a couple of broken bones, but it's the cost of repairs that worries me
A lot of quick riders worldwide that never ever get that lucky chance in life.
Moto parts, or body parts?
That's always been one thing that never set me back in motocross and on Street bikes. I couldn't care less about the bike on a race day especially. Practice I run hard but race day it's all about speed. I rev it out harder and longer, brake later, and use up every ounce of energy I have to keep the bike under control. My only worry is hurting myself but that's because I have a couple lasting injuries that still cause problems on track with motocross especially.
Interesting, but the production was a missed opportunity. It was more about the so called 'slick' editing than about showing the comparison. Get a grip will you.
Yeah I agree. Too much visual waffle.
Those bikes sounds amazing. But not a peep from them.
Thanks for having me along! We need to do this again sometime 😁
it would be interesting if you did it again but gave him some coaching to see how much he could improve
Taylor, do you use trail braking much on this track or just late and hard!
@Lorin Sanchez yes, I know and I do. I was asking the pro rider how he attacks corners to see if he had any extra advice. 👍
@Lorin Sanchez I was still asking him just to see. No offence but he's gonna be miles ahead of any of us. You must be very wealthy to race over there. In the UK very few riders make a penny.
@Lorin Sanchez you're missing the point; I was asking HIM. Not you or anyone else, just him. I know what I know, I wanted to hear from a proper pro. Cheers.
Could have been improved by showing split screen first person views of the laps to show at which points the pro got ahead/differences. Or alternatively, had them talk through one of the laps AKA Top Gear
Ikr
lmao top gear ?
you listen to clarksons description and youll question where the gas and the brake pedal are
Also the racer is about 100lbs lighter.
That's wat i tought too;)
@@John-td2rz u never rode a bike on the racetrack? a bigger guy is faster in corners, cuz of the wheight thags presures on the tires😉
he's not a fat ass... he's a squid... a local fat guy that rides that track hard and fast on a the right equipment will work the track just as well as it's about using your body... look at the TT leader... squid... he does endurance races and eats hotdogs all the time and is way fatter but knows his shit and has a screaming desire to be the fastest in the world... wake up and ride more often stop leaving your bike in the garage and ride and maintain it... wake up... it's time to ride son
The late David Jefferies completely destroyed the whole power to weight ratio bullshit
This matters less with the more powerful bikes, that's why the 125 and 250 class are dominated by little guys, however if both riders are equally skilled the lighter guy will always win.
I need to hear the engine and exhaust, not the music, and where is camera view from the bike? Thumbs down
Here is my modest approach of the matter: ruclips.net/video/GbQ2A3U-lYQ/видео.html
RUclips, because everyone cares about your opinions.
Yes yes yes and yes
This was cool. But I would have done the video a little different. More actual racing instead of that irrelevant mid video interview. Then I would of had cameras so you can see them start out together. Then watch as the pro just gets farther, and farther, and farther away until he's gone. Would have taken about a lap and a half with ten second lap time difference. Bad directing for a segment. Boring.
This was a great idea but really kind of lacked execution I would love to see a comparison between the novice rider and the experienced track day rider and the pro. And spend more time comparing where they break where they turn in how hard the acceleration is etc etc. Would love to see a lot more analytical detail. Not to mention side by side videos of corner angles Etc. Would love you to take another try.
Tedd Speck exactly. The idea of this video was great but it is just show
Poorly executed had all the gear ti do it. Pro approaches rider in tight corner flys past instead had guts with cute hair cuts flexing their leathers and relied on track data not visual scenes. 3 out of 10 because they had £100,000 budget.
Same....
Here is my modest approach of the matter: ruclips.net/video/GbQ2A3U-lYQ/видео.html
I was expecting something more detailed to be frank.
Fine then, you be Frank instead of Michal.
Yeah all the babble for minutes over minutes and then the analysis done in one sentence, that's just pathetic.
This is one of those videos I've always hoped I would bump into in RUclips. Thanks. Plain and simple. Subbed.
This is a great video and something I’ve wondered about , thanks for doing the comparison!!
Anyone that had raced on a track with superbikes completely understand how much difference there is between pro an amateur .. I know guys that are track day teachers /trainers and they put noobs to shame they make you feel slow and then I’ve been there to watch these guys that make us mortals look slow get so blown away by a pro that it doesn’t look real !! I watched Nicky Hayden go around these guys like they were stopped and pushing with there feet !!! The one thing that every rider needs to do is track days you can join clubs for weekend fun and you will learn more about the limits of your bike and your skill so that you will be better on the road !!! Learn from my experience you will blow your friends away after 1 track weekend the only drawback is you will get addicted to track days
I remember my first day on a track, it was 35 celcius in the shade, but there was no sweat in my asscrack because I clinched it harder than a nutcracker could achieve
So I'm behind the marshall, giving my bike everything she's got, we come up to the fast corner of the track, he leans in, I lean in, he sits up straight, turns his body, bike still in full lean,... looking at me over his shoulder, probably wondering what's keeping me
Guess that smashed my hopes of ever entering the superbikes 😄
Couldnt agree more..
5:00
Keep in mind that the faster you go around a corner, the faster you exit a corner, and as a result of that the faster you will be at the end of the straight even if you both brake a the same place so the extra top speed at braking may not simply that he brakes later but that he exists the previous corner faster.
Very cool, great talent you got to do the video! Made it worth the watch!
Great idea but where is the on-bike footage? For the sake of an additional two minutes, four if both riders are shown, a complete, on-board lap could have been included. I'm about to race at Cadwell for the first time next month and would have loved to seen the track from a rider's perspective.
Finaly. You've answered a question i've been asking myself for a long time. Thanks guys :)
I love the new Dainese/AGV gear, Michael!
Ummm.... What is the deal with that??
Met Taylor at my first track day at Silverstone. Nice guy.
Pro racers push the tires to the very edge of adhesion at every turn, and when they reach the limit can feel the slipping and sliding at both ends. That is where they ride and their comfortable with that. Very few street racers push that hard. That's why you are slower than the pros. If it was easy we would all do it, right?
This ended up in my feed. Brief and to the point! Seems like a good data download. Didn’t have anything like that in my American club racing days. Just the transponder for recording lap times. Hope Taylor has a good season in ‘24.
I hoped to see what the bikes did. As usual it turned into the cameraman and editor trying to appear cool with a random collection of three second, wierd-angle clips.
10 seconds a lap behind a series champion is actually quite good! When I was doing lots of track days and mixing up in the A group, the amateur racers would still blow my doors off, not to say anything of the professionals. I wonder how much the electronics play into it. Much easier to get drive out of the corner when you're not worried about getting spit off to the moon. Nevertheless, interesting video, not sure why all the negative comments.
That’s pretty interesting, especially as you said you’d go in the fast group... I’d probably go in the fast group on my SV650 but I’m able to do 1:45s on it (though I do race in the Minitwin series).
More time on the bike = faster lap times
The only good thing about this video is the title. Edited like a budget music video and spliced together perfectly so as to remove the viewer as much as possible from what is going on.
As a old guy now I explain the evolution to racer of me vs me . Mid pack novice to front running expert. Same track gs750es 1:35 fj 600. 1:22. When you are running 1: 35 you think and you are at your limit . Where I was wrong is the biggest improvement is not the bike it is you. Until you go enough to develop feel and learn it is about braking points ,turn points ,where you need to exit to be set for the next section . But a fast lap is not everything in racing . Racing is learning to do so many things mostly reading others quickly as in their style their bike vs your bike . Here is my tip to beginners after you have run the course between sessions close your eyes. And run the course in your mind . Every up shift ,down shift , braking point turn point . See them all . . This will amaze you . If you have been there before grab your stopwatch . Close eyes and run the course . Back when I raced In the 80s my mental visualization time was normally a second faster than my fastest lap but normally that changed that event . I understand today many play the video games as they are so good . But . Good luck .
Whay you didnt show the ride?
And give us the graphs
I really enjoy this video. Thx for sahre bro.
Cool video,
My first track day, I followed a pro rider, on a cruiser/ muscle bike. On slicks.
Wicked fast rider!!
We all where amazed how fast he was.
yo michael that was dope what u did....respect.
I've always preferred smaller capacity bikes on track as I still get quite nervous with my throttle control on bigger bikes.
Phenomenal video!
Imagine what Marquez lap times would be.
1,27,90
Rather hear the sound of pipes than the completely shit Muzak thanks.
Caldwell is one of the best tracks I’ve been to
That red and gold suit is dope
Amazing video!
Good job on vid,and subject....good stuff
Benchmark set for my Tuesday outing then :D
Im a motorcycle lover.. this channel is lit.. nice vlog
Why is their headlight on in broad daylight tho
This is the second time I see you racing a pro.The previous time was against Xavi and there's a consistancy....On both races you were 10 sec slower than the pro.So we can draw a conclussion.If you're average in the fast group during normal trackdays (which is actually pretty good!!!)....a pro will always be 10 sec faster still.That's amazing !!!
Hahahha - I like Taylor's final comment "Because I'm riding so slowly it gives me more confidence".
wow what an amazing circuit
I love this video. Mainly because last time I went to Cadwell Park on a Triumph 765 I did a 1:45.5
No mention about rider weight difference?
I was waiting for a race till the end of the video
Anticlimax however nice to know that I was 12 seconds off a fast group rider my first time on track and was at Cadwell in a 750, although I know 12 seconds is a long time on a track I should be able to shave that off next time I go with decent tyres and proper brake pads and better bike
Lol I think my 954rr is fast. & this dude just called a 1000 srr slow. Amazing
🤣🤣
Nice BMW and TopGear add guys
I knew this was going to end with "Well as long as you enjoyed it, I know I have.."
I would have like to see a bit more of the track times put down by both riders....
Where's the MV?
You should also take into consideration the weight of the pilots. I'd guess there is a 20 pound difference between these two. That's a lot.
Just learning to ride and is on a 1000RR? At a race track?
Y’all need to come to barbers Motorsports track for vintage festival such a great experience
Thank you very much Micheal. I am Fabz Rust Rider, I love the videos.
What is the name of the track ???
One must take into consideration that weight plays a crucial role in lap times given all other things are equal. Taylor is definitely lighter than the other rider which could explain some of the seconds on the timer.
I was a little disappointed the two of you didn't go out together and we didn't really see much of the laps.I suspected the results were going to be similar, but there's a disconnect. That's going by numbers, what does 5 or 10 mph more through the corners look like? How much earlier are you braking than him? Pace him and let's see what that looks like on the track from yours or his perspective.
Hi, a professional rider does not easily share a track with an amateur,[ think practice days at the race track]. The different speeds means a lot of potential accidents can happen -it is easy for a pro racer to lap an amateur and that can be extremely dangerous! [ Just ask Rob Orme.] The different speeds being travelled is like someone riding an autobahn compared with someone riding around an average town.
thanks for the intro, just enough to kick my insomnia in :/
This video was like water logged fireworks...
🤘🏼 looking good Michael!
Cheers buddy, your turn next...
I freaking love chicanes, when I started track day. Chicanes for life!
Good, honest fun.🏍🏍
Loved that short film, really interested in the stats, great job!
Man i cant wait to get back too track day's......
What’s the song please?
POV comparison would of been cool
It’s December, and I wish I were here!!!
where is pro vs amateur on this video?
I loved the telemetry data. Four things are obvious:
1. The racer brakes later, quite significantly. His braking is stronger too as indicated by the steeper downwards lines.
2. The racer trailbrakes aggressively. There are multiple instances where telemetry speed line looks like a "V" instead of a "U" which means hard application of brakes up until the apex and then immediate & aggressive opening of the throttle.
3. The racer takes advantage of every tiny bit of opportunity to open the throttle. There are instances between close-together turns where we see short accelerations which are non-existent in Mann's telemetry who just coasts along in-between the turns.
4. The minimum speed of both (i.e. at corner apexes) is in many cases identical, which is encouraging and shows that Mann doesn't really lack skill or bravery.
Very nice
For an unfamiliar machine you both weren't that slow.
I don't ride street bikes
Just some bum from the states that loves dirt bikes.
Excellent video by the way
Cheers
Great channel
what music is in the vid kinda liked it
You should do his on a 600 and see how that compares
should do it on a Harley & see?
People who love bike and race bikes, love the sound of them, sticking garbage music over the top is amature work, including the lack of side by side video of them round the track.
The only good things about this video is Taylor, Rory and Cadwell Park, I live near this track and I can hear the bikes going round from my house, this track is one of the best for spectors aswell, get right up close to the action with no 8 foot high fences pushing you half a mile away, as long as they keep the sales bin away from the spectator areas it will stay great.
There is no difference in braking efficiency, faster guy is just not rolling at all, he is either on throttle or braking all the time. In fact the faster guy is braking less but sustaining higher cornerspeed at couple of places.
OK, Rossi.
They are the same brakes, its the same bike. I used to race, when you start running with the guys at the front braking is like an accident itself, with the back wheel pattering ad front tyre squealing.
What would a MotoGP rider's time be on that track?
Go to watch Sylvain Guintoli’s channel he just did it in 1:34.7 on a stock GSXR 1000 with street tires that already had three track days on them.
I would rather see their average lap times, their best laps differ 10 seconds, but i bet the pro also had more consistent lap times
So if i brake later and carry more speed through the corners i can beat anyone ?
Yes, if you dont crash.
no music please
Track Day Hero was SEETHING!!
Can tell he was gutted that he was 10 seconds off.I think he was expecting it to be about 2 or 3 seconds 😂
Yeah excactly what I was gonna say,thank great talk
I would’ve ran a 1:25:00 lap time on a tricycle with a squeaky horn bolted on to alert the motor vehicles when I’m passing
Have I missed something? What was the point? Escapes me I'm afraid.
Why not have filmed the areas where the pro braked harder. Where he opened the bike up. Where he followed another rider andcwe saw him pass. You had the bikes, the leathers, the haircuts, the track , the drone, the go pro . So how does a cameraman compare to a pro ??
When he asked where did he think he would have an advantage the pro rider should have walked over patted his gut and said I think we all know where the advantage comes from.
I wasn't expecting Rory Reid
Yes, need superimposed video like they do with skiers in the Olympics. Stats tell you next to nothing.
My experience .... 8 to 20 sec. a lap on an average size track in America !
Michael "Simon Pegg" Mann is pretty fast. Never knew he rode bikes !!
I once did a race school at Donington where I shared the track with Rob McElnea who was on an identical bike. Until that day I thought I was pretty quick.
The gulf in ability is unbelievable.
----yep: back in the day, I used to run endurance races in CRRC ( now CMRA ) in middle / stock. In one race, we asked Jamie James ( who was just coming off a couple of months recovery from a crash ) if he wanted to get some time in riding on our team {Team Squirrel } : he said sure, hopped on our stock Seca and on his first lap cut 10 seconds off our best lap - at the end of a 6 hour race, 10 seconds a lap puts a HUGE distance on - but he kept getting faster as he got comfortable with the bike - we were even getting competitive until another team member decided it was time to crash and burn.
A Sunny Day in Brittania !!!! : D
Why u neeeed to put the music
Leave the lengine sound
He would have laped you in 10 laps, 1.38 = 98 seconds, he's 10 seconds faster
2:00 8w ago still on L plates now on a S1000RR on race track. Good luck with that.
SFB agreed that’s an accident waiting to happen
Now I would like to see the same done with a high powered car ..is there a 10 second gap ..or a 3 ... I bet closer to 3 ...
I once rode so fast i rode into the future