Al Haqq, The Absolute Truth - Subboor Ahmad vs Agnostic ( Julian )
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- Опубликовано: 14 окт 2024
- Br Subboor Ahmad speaks to a Agnostic ( Julian ).
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As a muslim, I request all brothers and sisters to stop using harsh words such as "athiest slaying" "rinsed" "spanked" etc. Our goal is to not do any such thing but to correctly guide them to the true path of reasoning. We all have the need to reason our purpose in life, we as muslims are lucky enough to have found it so lets reason it out with our soon to be brothers and sisters. JazakAllah Khair
Good point mate
@Mrs Dz
What do you mean?
The problem is you are not right about anything. Your quran is only stupid.
Sturla Þórðarson that’s an ad hominem attack and a fallacy. So you’ve just shown you’re the one who’s stupid, thank you.
@@Sultanrashidd No it is the truth. Making it not a rational error.
I like Julian. even though he is wrong he has respect and is genuinely trying to understand subboors argument.
Very few people I have seen
Mashallah subboor has so much knowledge may allah give him a place in jannah
hadif786 ameen
امين
He has lots of words but little knowledge.
julian is a very good listener
samad islam unlike Sa Ra, Lizzie, Godwin, Peter, Jay Smith etc they like to talk like machine gun.
Hamza speaks like a machine gun too. It is a human condition.
Yes he is because he wants to learn
Julian is a great knowledgeable person and respect to how he debates with suboor. I love humans when they’re humble and don’t prejudge it makes them open to the truth all the time. Excellent points by suboor that were raised by Julian.
May ALLAH guide him
Zayd Berkani
Ameen
Aamiin
He can not you are only making a wishfull thinking. Your Allah can not exist.
May Odin give him strength and his Spear
The best respond to what Julian said in 56:56 is in the Quran:
[15.14] If We opened a gate in the heaven and they (the angels) kept ascending through it,
[15.15] They would say, "Our eyes have only been dazzled. Rather, we are a people affected by magic."
------
This was a respond to the disbelievers when they asked prophet Mohamed peace be upon him to bring them the angels.
And you should know that they asked other things which Allah did but still they didn't believe.
for example: they said to the prophet peace be upon him, if you are truthful split the moon in half for us, and when this happen they said this just magic and we won't believe.
here's what the Quran say about it:
[54.1] The Hour is drawing near, and the moon is split (in two).
[54.2] Yet if they see a sign (the unbelievers) turn their backs and say: 'This is but a continuation of sorcery!
[54.3] They have belied, and follow their own fancies. But, every issue will be settled!
[54.4] Tidings containing a deterrent have come to them
[54.5] which are full of wisdom; but the warnings do not help.
By the way there are historical testimonies from other nations about the split of the moon:
web.archive.org/web/20111028081146/www.mayalords.org/restfldr/persia.html
--------------------
So what i'm saying is, the sings of the existence of God are everywhere for those who want the truth, Allah said:
[41.53] We will show them Our signs in all the horizons and in themselves, until it is clear to them that it is the truth. Is it not sufficient that your Lord is witness over everything? '
As for those who reject the verses and the clear signs, if every evidence they asked for came to them they would still not believe:
Allah said:
[6.111] Even if We sent down the angels to them and the dead spoke to them, and assembled all things in front of them, they would still not believe, unless Allah willed it. But most of them are ignorant.
So be sincere and ask guidance from God and by God willing, you will be guide to the truth
Thanks for sounding insane. Just like your phrophet. That I putt in hell for eternity.
@@sturlaorarson4411 here you are showing your intellect by Insulting other religion ... this is your ethics and morality ..Most of you just insult which shows your sanity ....
@@rajababy2009 There is no sanity in following religion. And to lie that religion is ok. Is not moral.
@@sturlaorarson4411 yeah and believing that we came in to existence with out any reason and creator is sanity ... You cant prove a simple pen is with out creator and calling this universe coming from nothing is intelligence ..You are insane who believes nothingness can create this huge universe and 0=1 while we said 1=1 Now who is sane and insane
@@rajababy2009 Pen has no similarity to a rock. You are making a insanly stupid none secadore argument.
I am becoming a fan. His videos gives me insights and better understanding about the ever changing science concepts/models due to new findings. I got a better understanding on the tree of life from this video. Those who learn the philosophy of science from Bro Subboor are really lucky.
No, suboor is not a good person to learn science from. Watch some science videos on youtube, or read some science books. The problem with suboor is his evident biases in favour of religion. Some of his conclusions about science are incorrect and the sources he quotes are questionable. Peace.
Specify a few?
Nicholas Morgan back up the claims you've just made!
@@nicholasmorgan2679 back up your claims with evidence, otherwise you are hypocrite. Sorry for saying that
@@nicholasmorgan2679 Suboor isn't trying to teach science, he is giving the Islamic and religious insight on it. Also please point out any bias? He literally mentions atheistic biologists and other scientists that don't agree with Darwinism. And he always lists professor and university books and source, and here you are. Peace.
Really a pleasure to hear to this convo.
they respected each other's opinions .
I Pray to ALLAH to brother Julian to the truth.
wow, what a conversation.
Subboor... wallahi you just said everything i actually said to other atheist, your journey in your 20s when u questioned reality and birth religion to find the truth.... same as what happened with me at 24... this is insane.. mashallah!
Julian seems like hes a student of knowledge and someone who debates well and asks great questions. Someone who is not deluded in ignorance or arrogance. I think in heart he genuinely wants to know the truth... I enjoy watching debates where he is present because I know he knows how to conduct himself and hes great at having dialog and formidable discussion.
Julian is such a nice guy. Wish there were more discussions such as this...calm and collected
جزاكم الله خير ، jazakom allah kheeer ❤
May Allah guide Julian to the truth ...In sha Allah
May Allah guide every sincere soul
01:08 the best explanation I've heard (in English). Jazzak Allah kheiran Subboor
amazing, it's better to see this disccussion than to intend lecture at university
great discussion.. i love this. respects for both sides 👍👍
This agnostic would ask for ever possible proof for god's existence and yet would find ways to discredit it, and yet he will accept any hypothesis to his existence (Darwinian theory) and believe it without even questioning it the way he would when if it came to questioning the existence to a creator. Double standards.
I was thinking exactly the same, so i wondered if he ever asked for a similar proof for Darwinism such as demanding to see a species evolving to another different species right in front of his eyes.
Ayub Khan so true...!
sliovic "So I wondered if he ever asked for similar proof for Darwinism such as demanding to see a species evolving to another species right in front of his eyes"
You clearly don't understand how evolution by natural selection works. It has happened for over million years, but there's is overwhelming evidence for that, like fossil record, geographical distribution of species, vestigial trait, early embryo, similarities in DNA, etc. Creationists might say it is micro evolution, but there's no such thing as micro or macro evolution, cause given longer time scale all of so called micro evolution would be seen as macro evolution. Nevertheless, the bottom line is, scientists never claim that evolution is absolutely true, but it is the most reliable conclusion from evidence that we have. And a good scientific theory is easy to be falsified (in the case for evolution, if you found fossil of rabbit or other mammals in pre-cambrian, you completely falsify evolution), yet hasn't been falsified yet.
Wow... you clearly missed the point i was trying to make -_-
Kirana A That's an assumption, not science. You can't observe it. Science must be based on observation and can be repeat in the real world with the same result. Science can't give evidence about species change, it's just an asumption.
Maa shaa Allaah, our brother Subboor is just brilliant.
May Allah reward Subboor Ahmad, Ameen
I like Julian's manner and how he's a good listener.has a good logical attitude and for sure this is the start that will change something on him. Brother Ahmad as well did a good job baraka allaho fih ... hope to see you between us soon Julian :D
Amazing arguments between two respected persons that had taught me the art of discussing and disagreements ✌️✌️✌️✌️✌️✌️✌️✌️in beautiful manners .
Tnx brothers i enjoyed this talk. I look forward for talk like tjis. Tnx
May Allah guide him!
When he was describing what type of proof he is looking for and specifying his criteria, I wish Saboor would have just read him these ayat from the Qur’an;
“And certainly We have explained for men in this Quran every kind of similitude, but most men do not consent to aught but denying.
And they say: We will by no means believe in you until you cause a fountain to gush forth from the earth for us. Or you should have a garden of palms and grapes in the midst of which you should cause rivers to flow forth, gushing out.
Or you should cause the heaven to come down upon us in pieces as you think, or bring Allah and the angels face to face (with us).
Or you should have a house of gold, or you should ascend into heaven, and we will not believe in your ascending until you bring down to us a book which we may read. Say: Glory be to my Lord; am I aught but a mortal apostle?” ch17 Al Israa 89-96
Funny if you look at the agnostic’s criteria it is exactly similar to what the Ayah says! In terms of one having witnesses, two seeing Allah, three seeing some sort of evidence that breaks a natural law which in the ayah would be the sky falling to pieces, four a recording medium which in the ayah would be the book, all his demands are exactly of the same mindset of those mentioned in the ayah. Subhan Allah how such hearts are similar to one another!
The same Surah explains in another Ayah their actual reaction when their demands are met;
“And nothing could have hindered Us that We should send signs except that the ancients rejected them; and We gave to Samood the she-camel-- a manifest sign-- but on her account they did injustice, and We do not send signs but to make (men) fear.” ch17 Al Israa 59
Wish Saboor would have read him these ayat when he produced his argument I would have loved to see his reaction!
Khalid Edrees
absolutely these conversations need the verses as that's what awakings the hearts and removes the doubts by Allah
Where the heck is this place, its like everybody comes here to debate lol... Selaam from New York
Jay Fires its speakers corner hyde park london
The beautiful thing about science is that there are many domains in it. And for every domain there is a someone specialised in it...
But there is no one specialised in every domain...
This is a key point in to these conversations. This can be used to gain advantage if you understand what I mean..
ma chaa allah the beginning and the end of it
BR SUBBOOR , you have such a huge knowledge , you are a pillar in darwinism debates with atheists , that must be transmitted ,
i hope you will consider to have Muslims students to give them this savoir faire .May ALLAH reward you all
the last words was absolute truth.
just wonderful
This guy sets a criteria for proof of existence of god yet rejects the same criteria he needs to believe in a creator
Julian brings good arguments. The more the questions the better it satisfy his curiosity. InshaAllah one day all his questions are answered and he comes to Islam.
And he become muslim genius like Suboor
You wont get this kind of discussion with Christian because all they do is believe LOL.
and jesus spoke to them while you are talking to them.
steeven coogan and they saw him in dream 😂
and holy spirit
Julian even that I'm a Muslim but i feel you are very honest person may Allah guide us all to his path, but my only advice to you is just ask God the Almighty and if you are really sincerely toward asking God the all Hearer, the Seer ، i don't have any doubt that he will show you the truth.... 👍
Ma sha ALLAH
Very good explanation by br Suboor
may allah guied julian. ameen..
Good and calm dicussion I like it
Totally random but If Julian shortened his hair & grew a beard don't you think he'd look really similar to brother Subboor Ahmed? They're even wearing a similar patterned shirt.
Medaline hahahaha agree
masha allah
amazing
Mashalla good listener
Very good question
You should put subtitles my brother.
MAY ALLAH GUIDE HIM
May Allah guide Julian to the truth
i think why it's difficult for them even sometimes the honest ones...it's the other "muslim"..it has to come from GOD i know they need first to understand and reason but after that they need to go alone and surch and read alone until it came to him "hidaya" inchaallah.
why are atheists doubtful and not sure of what they say when they talk to Subboor but when they talk to anyone else they talk with certainty hhhhhhh
midnght123 cuz subboor can catch them when they use big words just to look smart
@@noureyahhussein1284 Suboor is the one using big words and thoughts he really do not master.
@@matswessling6600 In other words I don’t understand his big words so Im just going to say he’s wrong 🤣🤣
@@noureyahhussein1284 I understand these words perfectly well.
giving them a copy of Quran is ok but its all about believe which leads ALLAH showing u the right path by HIS blessing so how much will these ppl be blessed is upto ALLAH and themselves ,the reason why i never left as muslim is because i had doubts like the Atheists and the unbelievers but every time ALLAH answered me all my doubts leading Quran and hadith is the right thing and Allah's path is the right because it always works never let me down
Don't tell me nobody noticed their shirts.
Is there any books by Subboor Ahmad translated in Arabic language, hope somebody answer me, i like this man thinking, very educated and insightful man... 👍
There is a book the divine reality by hamza tzortzis it is a very good book ... But it is in English..
@@islamicmessage2419 yes i heard about this, thanks bro for your concern 👍
You got to love the kid for trying 😏
awesome discussion ....,
Can we get an update on what Julian choose to believe or not ?
the issue with julians view that mutation caused rationality is not observable though, its not a scientific view so its just guesswork really. as in you cant observe the first person to have a mutation that lead to rationality so why make this scientific point if it goes against observation
I think you have a binary view on rationality that might not reflect reality. I don't think it's a case of being rational or irrational. The actions we and other animals take in our lives have varying degrees of rationality.
Truth is what works in a given environment .....Its not some abstract Absolute thing in the sky.
what is in the sky??
Such a good fee reasoning points here from the Bro
37:25 Skip destination. Beginning right from where the very first sec of the video discussion.
a good debate
without even watching the video i know atheist got slayed. Suboor is the athiest slayer.
He's agnostic. Know the difference idiot
he is a idiot, he didnt mention about the fortification test, the signs like the embryology and the pharaoh and linguistic miracles and many more. That guy was looking for some proof more than blind belief he thought all other religious books same as quran. He could have mentioned those stuff to him.
Napoleon Bonarparte I guess
Napoleon Bonarparte interesting either way
scholars couldnt find contradiction and you trying to find it.😂😂😂😂
28:00 !
Lo puedes subtitular al español?¿
The thing is he won’t see God on the day of judgement. That’s a reward for Muslims in heaven on the day of Increase.
Cool
Soboor super natural thing didn't recovered evidence
Nice beard bro!
I think the first thing a Muslim must discuss with atheists is the question of fundamental knowledge... if an atheist doesn’t believe in it then just walk away from him or her because it would be pointless.
In a nutshell that would mean they don’t want to believe and they’re holding the “there’s nothing objective” card to get away with there irrationality.
That gum is ready to be chucked away
look they have same blue squares shirt haha cute....subhanallah he is a really good listener and want to study Quran. Allah please open his heart to islam. he is a good man please help julian :D
Our faculties and senses are limited and for someone to see God in this world, He would have to appear in the visible EM spectrum and bound by limits of space and time. God is beyond space and time, He is infinite and is not bound by any of His creation so visible spectrum of light cannot reveal Him. Therefore it is impossible to see God in this world.
This should serve as a source of strengthening of belief in God instead of creating doubt about Him because if someone/ something is bound by the creation, and if we are able to see him by our limited senses then He is not really the infinite true God.
Why does the guy with the blue jacket put his hood up? His face has been seen on a number of other channels, it looks silly
Well he's obviously not hiding his face since its clearly visible. Maybe he put it up because as you can see, the sun is blaring down straight at him or maybe he just had a shitty haircut. What's silly is your comment.
There is no explanation for any believer to offer, which a follower of
any other faith-based deity could not give too, Allah, Brahma, or any one god
among the thousands worshipped on Earth. There is no Argument for any God that cannot
also be made by any other faith based Religion too.
Scriptures that claim to be of divine origin, revelation, tradition, authority
and faith. That’s what they are all based on and none of those are reliable
pathways to the truth.
Pueden traducirlo al español
"If a bacteria manage to get a mutation from which it does rather than doing asexual reproduction it did sexual sexual reproduction, that wouldn't be Darwinism because it's not gradual, that would actually be something like mutationism. And this is a theory which was proposed as an alternative to Darwinism. Because remember, Darwinism is extremely slow. They've come up with the hypothesis that asexual led to sexual over millions of years." (6:21)
The fact that Darwin was inclined towards the idea of evolution being gradual is independent of the fact of natural selection. Julian gave you a plausible scenario wherein a bacterial community acquired sexual reproduction (mind you that that doesn't imply the individuals would lose their ability to reproduce asexually, so it was incredibly dishonest of you to interrupt and then misrepresent his statement saying "a mutation from which it *RATHER THAN DOING ASEXUAL REPRODUCTION*.."
Darwinism is extremely slow? Can I have the figures, please, along with the reference on how Darwin calculated those figured?
And when you are already aware of the hypotheses on the evolution of sexual reproduction, why the hell are you wasting people's time pretending that you find such a thing absurd?
well...he wants to see God, Moses PBUH also asked for it. The thing is, Why humans consider or think that they can see the unseeable...can you catch the air with your bare hands? it does not fit into our form of current existence. The humans cannot see God in their current existence...untill the time they do, its just plain belief. And for belief to exist, they want proof, and they want the proof that can fit into their tools of measurement, what they dont understand is they do not have the tools for God's measurement because God is above and beyond our capability to measure. These eyes cannot see God. Lets say the sun split into half and the words came out "yes there is A God"....still...there would be people giving explanations as to why and how it happened...scientists would come up with reasons...people would then go into details that "oh it was referring to my God not yours" etc etc...the thing is if you wish to see with open mind and dont take physical proof of God's existence as your requirement for believeing in God, only then you can see the signs and the patterns in the universe pointing at a creator. Basically you have to believe that God's existence cannot be measured by humans in their current form of existence.
In another video Julian claimed to be an Atheist
One thin you'll learn about athiests is that they like to mix athiesm and agnosticism knowing full well what the difference is. They do it when to escape question they can't answer on athiesm.
Or were they created by nothing, or were they the creators [of themselves]? Or did they create the heavens and the earth? Rather, they are not certain.
(At-Toor 52:35-36)
Yes, but he also said,he would have been happier,if he was a plumber.
An interesting question. "Why species with non-sexual reproduction evolved to sexual reproduction.........Exactly what the guy said : There Is propably some Evolutionary advantage sharing DNA that overcame the Evolutionary advantage of mitosis.....But thats a hole science !! In science we don't deal with things like in religion ..."what comes in mind first"
Here is the science if anyone interested www.genetics.org/content/181/1/3
Also maybe after a stage when other evolutionary micro steps get hold mitosis is not possible anymore ....Anyway....Good question thought. Bravo for that question Subboor !!
I would love Prof. Jordan Peterson to come to Hyde Park
😂😂 nah, he'd get ripped to shreds in the park, better for him to stay in 1 sided debates against school kids like ben shapiro.
@@EpikMunk I meant a good constructive conversation with the prof on topics like morality, etc.Nevertheless why must you resort language like this? you do realise that this does not help the discourse.Look at Subboor...he's been very polite though having the upperhand and the other guy was also polite.
@@tanvirhasan4912 language like what? Do tell me what was so offensive? Suboor is patient with people who can have a decent discussion, when you put an idiot Infront of him he won't deal with them in the same way and for good reason and that can be clearly seen in other videos. Jordan peterson can't have a constructive discussion because he doesn't have anything constructive, all he can do is attack ignorant kids at uni, why you being a snowflake?
Life
"I think it makes more sense to believe in god........the reason why I am saying that because all around us there is design." (29:21)
Thanks for letting us know the foundation of your belief in god. The same old argument from design. Good for you. I hope you know that not everyone would be interested in sharing your fallacies.
And what if people call out to god when they are in danger? How does that prove the existence of god?
I Allah had willed he willed he would have made mankind into a one religion. Thats the whole point than there is no free will.
321bluff a part of them was , are and will reject that religion,so it's a free will,expanding your vision .
30:39 they skipped a scene. What is he hiding? I'm Agnostic and I find science to be helpful to explain life better than any religion text. Tragically I'm not yet a scientist so I cannot make my footnote in human history. But question everything including science. Of course science has helped me reason better than religion.
@ Meruna Khan According to you than what is?
@ Meruna Khan Oh... your one of those ppl. Stop trolling on my shit. Scientific discoveries are the truth my man. It's there for the betterment of us all.
@ Meruna Khan wow... talk about calling the tea kettle black. 😏
@ Meruna Khan I have no idea what your talking about. 🤦♂️Delusions is something you must know all about since it takes one to know one. 😎
@ Meruna Khan I don't call people stupid much but your stupid. Science isn't a delusion. Religion is a delusion as well as having an idea that the Almighty is real, is delusional... Science is facts based on reality. Just because its changeable doesn't make it any less true. It makes it adaptable to the times according to new discoveries. Again science is not a delusion but a reality. You sir are wasting my time and I feel stupid for responding to your poor judgemental criticism of science. Have a good day!
Malawi is a landlocked country
The old guy with the rosy cheeks is everywhere. Find me a video of speakers corners where he doesn't make a cameo appearance.
Why do we have a rib cage? To allow us to breath, it is flexible because it needs to expand and retract allowing us to breath, thus "created from the rib cage" can metaphorically be attribute to breathing, which is a true fact, because the oxygen in the air which we breath, originally came from cyanobacteria which created the oxygen we currently breath and also created sexual reproduction....
My atheist brother has an obvious disadvantage, because he is working on a single engine.
You are completely blind to the evidence. We can't help you. God guides the hearts of whom He wills. If you are sincerely searching for the truth. You will find it. God willing.
I don't think this guy actually understands natural selection or Darwinism.
faith in something will never make it true, about time all religions realised this and stop trying to foist heir various invisible friends on humanity.
gazza mac
he explained truth being that it arrived from the one who is truth as rational thinking and reasoning cannot be done without such an input..ergo true religion...the religion is true because it comes from the One true creator...One in essence One in attributes One in names all specific to itself unlike anything else this being distinct and absolute.
What would be proof of God? "Nothing as anything you provide could be advanced technology" looooool. So if you will except no evidence don't call yourself agnostic call yourself irrational. You have made the decision to be an atheists not an agnost.
do you know what happened to this guy?
Mee too ..t hope know
Julian is not intelligent enough to keep up.
smoking is disgusting, the smoker behind is selfish. at least do not smoke beside the child
this was a good debate, but i was distracted by that piff lighty with the green coat
Darwinian theorists do not have all the answers - its growing or has set limiting theories.
Apart from the fact that Subboor Ahmad
has next no idea about evolution, he also seems to be under the impression that
disproving evolution would automatically add credibility to the idea of, not
only a God, but the one he believes in. This is not the case. He’d still had to
demonstrate the concept of the divine and tie this to his Particular God.
A naturalistic explanation was ever replaced by a theological one. Not
once. They were always, as it is custom in science, replaced by better science.
When new data comes in, new conclusions are reached, that is part of the strength
and beauty of science.
The time to believe in the
supernatural, like a God, is when it is demonstrated to be real, not before
that.
Where is the evidence for the supernatural?