"YOUR WELCOME" with Michael Malice
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- Опубликовано: 14 май 2024
- Michael Malice (“YOUR WELCOME”) welcomes author and world-renowned economist, Walter Block, onto the show to talk about his encounters with Ayn Rand and Murray Rothbard, his recent ousting as a Senior Fellow from the Mises Institute, and why some academic scholars can actually be very spiteful.
HOPPE CONTRA BLOCK
www.lewrockwell.com/2024/01/h...
BLOCK REJOINDER
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WALTER BLOCK
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mises.org/profile/walter-block
MICHAEL MALICE
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Its time Dave Smith gave Dr. Block a call
Mr. Nuance
I'd say he already has, hence Blocks loss of fellowship at Misus.
Why? Walter's the one who's correct. Dave believes Pallywood propaganda nonsense, as does Hoppe.
@@305Independent do you KNOW what the Mises Caucas is?
It's truly amazing how Hoppe and Mises group have turned on Block over one disagreement. The liberty movement very often cannabilises itself over it's own arrogance and idiotic purity tests.
My main issue with Michael is that he sticks to 1 hour. I really feel like the conversation only gets started
"Friends we are running out of time" Who's time exactly?
“I’d rather watch a child’s arms being broken than watch a book’s spine being cracked.. I’m not serious, but kinda”
- Michael Malice
In Michael's defence, having a book written by him stolen is probably exactly what Max Stirner would have wanted
The answer of "I made a new friend" to the question "what has been your favorite part of this interview" is probably the sweetest moment in podcast history
absolutely!!! I could watch hours more of this.
The error with the child strapped analogy is proximity of time and collective action. The analogy was just one individual in a specific time pressure. The war is about other individuals then those directly affected. The dilemma of how justified you are acting against someone who is degrees removed for an immediate threatening situation.
The analogy was perfect
Also, even if you have the right to kill the baby, does that make it morally right? I'm just thinking that most of the people I admire would be the types of people that will risk their lives to save a child. The grown man that let's the kid die so he can live isn't really worth much.
And also the analogy is different if Malice gave him the knife and taunted him before he charged
@@juliagriffin2299 most Libertarians don't operate in a moral framework. Most of them have zero issue killing babies in the womb.
@@mikedunne1584 You must be lousy with a gun than.
@@howardnapier3618 you must be lousy with analogies.
"Is that the invisible hand?" made me lol so hard
In Dr. Block’s example he uses individuals. The current events involve states. Is there a difference? State’s are incentivized differently. Motives are more easily cloaked. Sane individuals act out of selfishness. States act due to the selfishness of individuals. To me, there is an enormous chasm between the 2.
Kind of amazing how weak Block's arguments were. Entirely unoriginal.
50:26 “pretty much have their own state” admitting without admitting that they didn’t. If they actually had their own state then such brutal retaliation would not be questioned.
Malice -What was Rand like?
Block -Kind of like Bernie Sanders.
Michael -Okay, okay, okay
Speaking of Ayn Rand her legal Heir is still alive, how cool would it to be have Leonard Peikoff as a guest
Sooo boring tho
Probably about 20 years too late to get him talking about ideas in an unfamiliar setting.
Objectivism has become a fig leaf for Zionism.
Best answer yet, to "what has been your favourite part of this interview?"
-"I made a new friend!"
✌🏻🇦🇺
Professor Block is the reason I’m a libertarian. His treatment by the New York Times also solidified how corrupt that institution truly is.
That was truly disgraceful
For many reasons, Walter Block's arguments in support of Israel are clearly made in bad faith. It was disgusting how he acted as if he didn't know what "mowing the lawn" meant. It is becoming more clear why the adjective perfidious is often used
If you understand Zionists, then everything he says is par for the course. They think that land belongs to Israel, and ONLY Israel, and the Palestinians are just insects to be exterminated. Israel, in their own explaining, is an Ethno-national state, even though Judaism is a RELIGION, not an ETHNICITY. Thus, Jews are the SUPERIOR RACE that is meant to be the sole sovereign entity in what they see as Greater Israel. The whole campaign is based on utter bullshit, they basically fabricated every aspect of the pretense for their existence. Rabbi Yaakov Shapiro is the best I've ever heard explain the whole scam. He goes into GREAT detail the mindset of founding members like Ben Gurion and Jabotinski, and their complete disregard, and even outright disdain, for the foundations of Judaism. Anyone wanting to learn about what Zionism REALLY is should check him out.
Years from now October 7th 2023 will be remembered as the event that split every political 'denomination' in two (including libertarians)
Thank you in advance for the conversation. I have yet to see anything from Mr. MIchael I haven't enjoyed.
Isnt it kinder of Ayn Rand to kick you out when you still have your whole life ahead of you, instead of waiting until you're in your 80s?
Lol, Michael, in Texas, it's called a porch, not a stoop. Anarchy abounds!
Holy fuck it's Walter Block!
That almost rhymes.
Boy, I've been out of the loop! I can't believe they did that to Walter Block! Ive been reading his work for over 15 years. And i love Dilorenzo and Hoppe, i feel like mom and Dad are divorcing
Mom (Block) cheated.
Have you read the article?
It's the worse than anything anyone at Cato could even have conceived of.
@@aidanmagill6769 Block's substack article is literally filled with lies and half-truths. He has swallowed whole the conventional narrative of Israeli-Palestinian relations. Doesn't look like he's applied the NAP to anything going on over there.
OTH, he's done amazing things for the field of Austrian economics. I mean, REALLY AMAZING. His relationships with his students is unparallelled. He could be the Paul Erdos of economics.
Block is either out of his mind or he’s lying to support mass murder. His BS analogy here was copy paste from the 75IQ media corps.
311 is one of my favorite bands. Looking forward to the new album.
It’s 2025 and we go for the HIVE
@ 3:15 "With no justification whatsoever" 🤦♂️
Get Walter Block talking about Israel and he suddenly becomes a collectivist. I’ve looked up to this man for years. Incredibly disappointed to hear his take on the Israel/Gaza situation.
This is wonderful. Defending the Undefendable was an early eye-opener for me. Thank you, Michael and Walter!
"With no justification at all" Okay, sure.
Seriously, what a ridiculous statement. No one who says that is arguing in good faith.
"You made us increase our population in a virtual prison!" Cruelty abounds...
it's interesting that Walter says Rothbard was not "cultish" and you could disagree with him - but the example of people like George Reisman or James Valiant who were close friends with Rothbard and then had to break up with him proves that he could also become very acerbic towards people
Wow, I haven't seen Dr. Block in so long! Thank you!
I was ready to hear him out on his defense of Israel since he’s a libertarian. Maybe it would be something unique. Nope. It’s just the Ben Shapiro argument.😂
He's not libertarian
@@lukenodag5784 hE'S nOt liBeRTarIaN
@@LoganLiberty Sorry facts don't care
Walter's analogy is broken, that of him attacking you with a knife and you cannot escape, but he's holding his baby in front, do you shoot? Hamas isn't about to attack from under the hospital. Israel is very able to defend itself. And the baby isn't the terrorist's baby, but other people's kids. Would Walter shoot to defend himself if I were attacking and holding HIS baby in front? Get a grip on reality.
I'd heard Block had gone full zist, but I hadn't read anything he'd written on it yet. To be perfectly honest I was expecting something more original and convincing than the most standard of mainstream talking points.
If the mainstream talking points are true they seem pretty compelling. How do we know if they’re true?
@@AllenDobkin At first blush I can't agree with the notion that elections in Gaza were valid. Furthermore, I can't help but disagree with the idea that Israel is doing everything it can to seek peace.
Israel is nearly 10x the population of Gaza and at least 10x more wealthy and armed. I don't think their aggression against Gazans can be considered defensive anymore. At some point it changes from defensive to aggressive, and they've long-since passed that point. Especially when their claim to the land is as contentious as it is (regarding the history from the 1950s onward).
This isn't a one off event. I am not a fan of Israel and I loathe the lobby but they have historical justification here. Hamas was offered a state, and even a massively bigger settlement no less than 5 times. You can even see Clinton's remarks that he hosted a 2 week conference at Camp David and they said no to everything. And that they are masters of using civilians. In 1967 the Arab League met in Sudan and decided on the 3 Nos, no recognition, no peace, no negotions. Twice Israel was attacked by all surrounding countries and twice they won such as the 6 day war. They gave billions of aid, Gaza, and greenhouses, and instead of building infrastructure, they built tunnels. There is a reason that none of the surrounding Arab countries are coming to their rescue. And every time anyone tried to negotiate a settlement, it was rewarded with terrorists attacks.
No, they are not Indigenous. Most are Egyptian.
He went full mainstream during Covid mania
It's very disappointing. Though, he did write a book with a very angry Zionist kid who tried his best to make land claims, so there is more apparently.
Fascinating (in its original sense). Thank you Monseigneur Malice and Dr Block.
Now have Hans on the show
I think he's been on.
I would love to see Dave smith and Walter block, and Vivek talk about the federal reserve.
Viva anarchy!
Анархия - мать порядка!
While Block has a lot to offer in terms of Libertarian thinking, he is also the quintessential example of what happens when you try to reconcile ideologies that are in contrast. He bends over backwards to try to make Israel into a completely innocent individual defending himself and refuses to entertain the other side.
Can you reconcile a defensive war with Libertarianism? Yes, in the sense that if your country is actually invaded, you can defend it. Can you reconcile it with the Israel-Palestine conflict? No, because that is not US territory and however you feel about it, it was created by means of invasion and occupation. No amount of word play is going to change that.
Furthermore, the entire Military-Indistrial Complex began with the occupation of Israel, so you cannot separate the two. Because of this, Block becomes a Libertarian who is at least partly pro-Military Inudstrial Complex, so it is not crazy for the Mises Institute to remove him. His is not a Libertarian position; it's an interventionist position, however limited (although that one alone has repercussions all over the world) and he sounds no different about it than your standard Republican.
Very weak arguments from Walter. I'm not even sure I'd call them arguments as much as stupid assertions fed to him by the corporate media. It's like he has no clue about the history of Zionism.
Thanks
In my class in junior year, I read Mr. Block’s book on the Privatization of Roads. What an awesome book. I had the pleasure of writing an essay on all the different arguments between the two sides, ultimately being convinced in private roads.
Unfortunately, libertarian to that extent in my school is not quite the normal. All my friends made fun of me for being “too radical”. Oh well. I wrote an essay almost twice the needed size, but my teacher kept arguing with me on all the different topics she thought could stump my argument, I kept revising it to try an account for “environmental damage” arguments all the way up until she gave me a B for the essay. Oh well.
Every argument Block makes has been THOROUGHLY picked apart by Dave Smith in various debates. They are just talking points at this point, material for the talking heads on Fox News. If thats the caliber of this man's thinking, I agree with the Institute. It may seem heartless to some to cast a man like this out for one single oppinion, but the reality is the LP needs to clean F-ing HOUSE, and if someone can't make a rational argument defending their position on one of the most important issues in American society, that position disgraces them.
Personally, I don't see how someone who is Pro Israel can still think like this anyway! Netanyahu is a MADMAN, and his extreme brutality is turning Israel into a PARIAH state, whether you agree with him or not THIS IS THE REALITY.
If you love Israel, why wouldn't you try to stop it from disgracing itself?
After all, friends don't let friends drive drunk, or genocide, ESPECIALLY when the entire world is watching.
You should have on Saifedean Ammous. He's Palestinian and Walter and him had a debate last year. Imo it did not end well for Mr. Block so it would be interesting to have him on to give the other side of the issue.
Or Imad-ad-Dean Ahmed, of the Minaret of Freedom. Palestinian refugee, born on the high seas while parents escaped the Nakba, PhD in astrophysics under Carl Sagan, decades of service on the Libertarian Nat'l Comm.
Block is clearly unwilling to see things from ANY point of view other than his Zionist programming. Resorting to the "Queers for Palestine" trope at the end was obviously too much for Michael. I wouldn't be surprised if he shed a tear afterwards and thought "Well, another hero I SHOULDN'T have met..."
The guy obviously doesn't hold the core tenants of Libertarianism above his Zionism, and for that I say good riddance. I pray he sees the light before his day of judgement.
1st, Hamas didn't build the tunnels, Israel did when it occupied Gaza. 2nd, Block knows very well what "mowing the grass" means. It is the IDF policy, discussed many times in the Israeli news, of indiscriminate bombing of civilians periodically to keep them in fear of the IDF, and since 2006, when IDF is no longer able to win the wars that Israel choses to instigate, it refers to the civilian damage IDF inflicts when it realizes that it lost its war and can do nothing else but throw a tantrum, with civilians - women, and children - as its target. 3rd, Block is entirely right about Russia and Ukraine, I'm with him 100%, and on the side of Russia.
ive long liked Walter's contributions and i still will own and read his books.
But i think Hoppe was totally in the right, and everything walter says here seems to justify Hans words even more. Walter's full deepthroating of Israeli talking points and downplaying of their crimes and initiation. Seemingly from an ethic blind spot clearly shows his compromised morality for the sake of a collectivist ethic.
I watched this hoping he could come off more reasonable than i gave him credit for, because i have had a lot of respect for the man. But this interview only showed to me that his views on this are wholly incompatible with libertarian just war ethics.
I also like a lot of what Milei has done, but his foreign policy is in that same sort of realm and make me weary of him as i am of anyone to backs up US military supremacy and power on this planet for they have been the worst of the worst going on 80 years now. On top of the massacre of innocents during WW2
walteerrr blockkkk
Love Michael, he interrupts too much though
“I made a new friend!” I love it :-)
What sort of anarchist is this guy. Why doesn’t he suggest that Jews and arabs renounce their statism and identify as autonomous anarchist individuals and form new relationships based on the non aggression principle?
Welcome to the real world.
@@LoganLibertygee thanks mr loganliberty. Somehow I don’t think that’s you real name. My real name is Jacob. I’m a real anarchist, not an apologist for the Jewish state or any other state. They are all make believe concepts. Unfortunately they have real guns that that do real damage, all in the name of a fiction. There is no such thing as Jews or arabs, only human beings
I stand in perfect agreement with Walter
if he would use the same empathy he uses to put himself in the Russians shoes to understand the Ukrainian war, with Israel right now would go a long way. Some jews have a real blind spot when it comes to Israel
And you Jew haters have a massive block when it comes to understanding Israel's position on anything. Get bent.
You have a real blind spot when it comes to Arab aggression.
@@kasimirfreeman nope both are doing bad things. i as American tax payer tired of paying for
Ya THINK?!?! The Objectivism movement is mostly atheistic Jews looking for a fig leaf for Zionism.
_Atlas_ _Shrugged_ is a documentary, _The_ _Fountainhead_ is a novel.
I agree with Malice that The Fountainhead is the better novel. But my judgment may be impaired by the fact that I understood where she was coming from after reading the Fountainhead, so that subsequent Atlas Shrugged held less entertaining mystery for me.
Classic Walter W
Yaaaaaasss!!!!!
"they are saying that israel has no right to defend itself"
youd think walter block would know states dont have rights
The people in the land that is called Israel are a community of Jews that, rightly or wrongly, view themselves a people collectively under attack.
how about, the people who live in Israel have that right?
@ReallyAwesomeBoy sure, people who live in israel, whether they are classified as israeli or palestinian, have property rights. and yes, it would be better if walter block didnt become a collectivist when discussing geopolitics
I think you're being a little pedantic. There are a group of people, who live next to another group of people who want to kill them, am I collectivist for using the shorthand that the whole group has a right to defend themselves rather than each one individually?
@@ReallyAwesomeBoy ill admit that it is funny that now generalizing without any identifiers at all, it isnt clear which group you are even talking about
Michael, I would love to see you go to the rainforest with Paul Rosalie, Lex Fried's friend. I know it would change your life for the better. Nature is so healing for the mind. Your comments would be fascinating and fun.
God bless Michael Malice.
Thx
Nice to see C. Everett Koop on the show.
I agree with Walter on both conflicts.
Never thought I’d hear Walter Block, of all people, making these arguments. Very disappointing 45:57
Thanks…now we know you’re a child. Read up on the Just War Theory or the Peace of Westphalia…
55:14 umm..yeeeaah..
I picked up on that too...
It is OK to blockade aggressors.
@@kasimirfreeman I don't have a problem with blockading Hamas, but they were funding Hamas while blockading the whole population.
@@kasimirfreeman The "aggressor" was propped up by the zists, and the victims of the blockade are the same as those of the bombing.
@@fancyhitchpin8675 Your don't know what "propped up" means, evader. Letting two gangs fight each other is good strategy.
Can anyone tell me more about the comments they made about Beethoven and Mozart?
Mr. Block has a moral compass. I appreciate him not bowing to the pressure of his peers.
Is Block saying Palestine attacked Isreal without justification?
MM should educate himself more about the origins of the conflict between Ukraine and Russia. Again her Mr Block knows more about it.
Michael is often taking the devil's advocate side, having being predisposed to the guests views already. I don't think we're getting Michael's viewpoint in this interview.
Friendship ended with Hoppe. Michael Malice is my new best friend.
Agreed. Fountainhead is better.
I mean if the logic is that hamas doesn't have that much support from the population and the population is captive, isn't supporting a complete takeover of Gaza and an overthrown of their state the logical solution?
Wishing for a compromise with a government who openly stated they want to annihilate all Jews makes no sense. These are people who literally would rather die than compromise. How long would you hold out to make deals with them? That's insane.
In the '90s, From the river to the sea was the slogan of the Likud party. Judaism teaches that all non-Jews are merely animals in the shape of humans, and have no rights that a Jew is bound to respect. I invite you to consider the extensive policy implications of such a belief, and you will have found an explanation for Deir Yassin and many other crimes and lies.
57:32 The Minsk Agreement was NEVER HONORED by Ukraine.
I am team Russia also.
This broke me. Dr. Block is a brilliant man and a libertarian hero. His view on Russia and Ukraine conflict is spot on but sounds like Lindsay Gram on the subject of Israel. Tribalism will always be more powerful than ideas. Libertarianism and anarchy is impossible.
Not always. Rothbard and von Mises were Jews. There are a lot of nonZionist Jews around, and a lot of them are or could easily be converted to Libertarianism.
Under Anarcho-Capitalism, where Murray Rothbard's *_Non-Aggression Principle_* reigns supreme... how do search warrant work? Child & Animal Protective Services? Prohibition of Chlorofluorocarbons?
What minimal set of unchosen, positive, affirmative duties *must* all free people consent to so as to be free *in actual practice?*
Walter such an OG
Child labor my beloved
Jesus I wish Walter wouldn't be so stupid about Israel.
Block is a great man. Hoppe is better. I’ve spent time with both.
I love how the ancaps and libertarians are arguing that Israel didn't put enough aggressively acquired tax dollars into it's surveillance state and military industrial complex along the Gazan border.
Dude has obviously never lived on a class 6 road before.
One sided war, no more
I had a. Ex wife like Walter she would attack the tone not the content of the argument.
Michael forgot about the Bay of Pigs. A failed invasion is still an invasion.
Eating Red meat and Drinking Water
Great to hear Block's unique story involving so many larger than life people, and I don't think the liberty movement should cancel him over one wrong opinion on Israel. However, his Israel opinion is truly atrocious. He believes Israel has the right to "overwhelming, unprecedented use of military force." No, Israel has the right to self-defense in whatever way least impacts the rights of unrelated innocents. Every war has libertarians saying this war is necessary, this war is a good one - and they're all excuses. Rothbard was right to say, "Because inter-State wars inevitably involve both mass murder and an increase in tax-coercion, the libertarian opposes war. Period."
This debate is worth watching to see how Block responds to pushback on his argument here: ruclips.net/video/JBFvMv0F26I/видео.html
i can't find a shred, the tiniest shred of charisma in president biden; Maybe I'm not stupid enough.
Comment.
Ah yes Walter Block, the guy who got his ass whipped in a debate between him and Saifedean on Israel and Palestine.
Great interview. I definitely don’t think he should’ve been excommunicated or whatever but he was wrong in his support for Israel and Russia. Just because Putin is rational doesn’t mean he’s in the right here.
odd he always says 'israel and hamas' instead of israel and palestine
There is no palestine
It’s similar to how most people say “N@zis” instead of the German government in WW2.
@sirmount2636 thats my point
Prolly cuz Israel is at war with Hamas.
@gavincotter9326 yes but he says it in the context of supporters of palestinians who may not support hamas broadly (he prob thinks they do defacto)
It is like if someone was protesting the dresden bombings and a newspaper called them nazi supporters, its intentionally trying to collectivize them with the aim of being disparaging
Here you see very simply the fundamental flaw in libertarianism. Mr Block does not understand Objectivist (NOT Randian a term Ayn Rand disavowed) Metaphysics and Epistemology but he LOVES the economics!?! Libertarians simply disregard the foundations of economics and politics which is to be found in Metaphysics, Epistemology and Ethics. This explains that vague movements incoherence and insignificance. IMO! :-)
Like every other Jay this one proved himself to be an ethno nationalist when push came to shove.
I love Walter, but I disagree with his premise that you are justified in causing collateral damage to defend yourself. If someone charges at you, and the only way to defend yourself is to harm an innocent person, then the only justifiable action is to let yourself get harmed. There is no justification to harm an innocent person, no matter what, they are innocent.
But the end result is that you let that person with the innocent shield kill not just one person, but a multitude of people. When do you evaluate the threat as a greater potential harm than the loss of the shield?
@@elus89 Irrelevant, you never have the right to harm an innocent person for self defence.
All you have to do is ask one simple question, does the innocent person have the right to defend themselves from you harming them?
If the answer is no, then how come you have the right to self defence, that is a contradiction.
If the answer if yes, and you also believe you have the right to harm the innocent person, then that is a contradiction, because you can not both have the right to harm the innocent person and the innocent person have the right to defend themselves.
Also this whole utilitarian, ends justify the means ethic does not fly, Walter, Rothbard and Hoppe are natural rights theorists, they reject utilitarian ethics.
It also does not work because you can not compare harms between people, because harm is based on value and you can not do interpersonal comparisons of value, its impossible.
To give an example, you have two people who have their legs blown off, you might say that the harm is equal. But now I tell you that one person works in the office and sits down all day whereas the other person is a professional footballer who needs his legs. See it get impossible to say which harm is greater, because you have to compare the values of the two peoples legs, which is impossible because value is subjective.
Hoppe and band is in wrong here
Unconditional surrender.
Opponents of Block's position on ME have revealed themselves to be truly morally bankrupt, by their own stated morals. Embarassing!
Lolbert
For some reason his answer at the very very end of the podcast made me sad. Guy has one bad opinion and people have abandoned him. It's pretty pathetic.
Try FUM instead of smoking, Or, worse, vaping banana flavored vapes.
Don't tell me what to do
I love watching your podcast and many others, so do millions of others of us. But its easy to forget that only one segment of society is watching podcasts on RUclips. Bricklayers, diesel mechanics, carpenters, retail workers, etc aren't doing this.
White collar workers have the luxury of sitting at their desk & watching these shows while at work.
Why are American libertarians being so petty and factional to expel Walter from libertarian polite society. Ideological Maoism is not something to aspire to in the realm of how to deal with those who disagree. Why silence when you can discuss?
Who is silencing him?
Do you discuss the pros and cons of child rape, or do you silence and shut down?
@@daltonbrasier5491 Booted from Mises over his war in Israel views.
@@daltonbrasier5491 Booted from Mises over his war in Israel views.
@@OrthoHoppean Tell me, who in libertarian polite society is discussing child rape?
They were attacked with no justification whatsoever.
wow, diLorenzo proved to be THAT guy in the end... All hail Walter!
Mr. WEB, stick to economics