@@stewart950 but the comic wasn’t telling a black story. His point was If black panther was any other race, that story could be told. In the Netflix good times show, if you changed the race, you’d have to change the story. Why are you pretending you don’t understand?
You sound like a clown being apologetic how you come out swinging then say don’t bully anyone you sound scared the ones doing the bullying are them there the ones not letting black people tell there stories the way they should and if you want to call me a hater for calling that out then so fucking be it but I’m not apologizing for nothing that I say unlike you
Atlanta, Everybody Hates Chris, and Boondocks are a few examples of shows that have great black humor. Surprise surprise, they’re written by black folks.
The funny part is that Seth Macfarlane’s best works are stuff like american dad and the Ted tv show, which is just him being himself. Which makes him wanting to make these black shows even weirder
What do you mean seth only wrote the concept and the pilot of american dad, yes initally they were following his concept with a much more focused theme on political stories, but by the time of the 4th-5th season the political satire largely disappeared, there are political episodes as far as the 9th season but most of Them are more a back drop for comedy than anything else, his most important role here these days is being stan and roger voice actor.
Denzel said it best, "it's not color, it's culture." The things you see on TV, especially the news, hardly ever scratches the surface of what black culture really is and I mean both good and bad. We hold movies likw Boys in the Hood and Menace to Society close because they take a deep dive through the inner city struggles. There are topics on drugs, gang violence, poverty, single parent households, nature vs nurture, discrimination, survival of the fittest. There are so many topics in these 2 movies alone that black people deal with and relate to and I aint even the war against the system and cops. These shows nowadays understand color but barely have a clue when it comes to culture.
It is Silk Road, Amber Road and Royal Road as main vein trade routes. If the world claims we have no culture yet barely scrape the surface why is it so difficult to see beyond. The lands of America were born to reset all of visual art there is Edison vs Hollywood and the code sets.
So with this mindset and ideology the good times reboot is exactly what you described like it or not those things need to be shouldn’t be put on a pedestal.
It’s both culture and color. You have to not only be racially black but culturally black. I don’t want an African telling my story anymore then a White American.
With Seth MacFarlane, he doesn't just have no real experience with the black experience, I think he has little understanding of the human experience in general. All of his media seems weirdly twisted from real life
There may be black writers for the show, but the comedians writing the jokes are white (aka seth). They are his "N-word" pass if you will. so its really a bunch of black writers doing consulting work for a white comedian who gets to tell black jokes using animation as a medium for a white audience. Basically Seth gets to tell "Chicken and watermelon" jokes with black approval.
I don't think that's any different than when you can obviously tell there are black people writing white characters. I hate to break it to ya ya, almost every white character written by black people is either a goofball 1950s stereotype saying crap like you betcha, or they are just mean and or racist😂
@@ShamanTiersBut typically the black artist is the one with the creative control, signing to a label would be like having a company publish a book you wrote for you.
I've always wanted to see a black character who is really into punk rock and metal, just to break some stereotypes, and to show that black people are way more eclectic in their music tastes than pop culture lets on. I'm not black, but I would imagin it would be a bit frusterating for people assume you only like to listen to R&B and rap.
Not black either but as a goth who sees a lot of poc and black goths, it would be rly nice for that to be reflected in some of the media. I feel like you would like Wendelle and Wilde. The main character is a black punk and there is even a trans character too.
@@Nilufar_Nasha_Luvs_Catzz jesus christ you guys are like practically fetishizing making people of color the star of the shows lmao nothing wrong with diversity but there’s something wrong with being like “Oh okay how about every show is just black people and hispanics and whatever the hell” also people of color gotta be the most weirdest racist shit ever and for some reason it’s still acceptable to say weird
I'm glad someone finally said it. Honestly, trying to tell white people to watch shows like Boondocks if they actually want to experience black humor written by black people is always a trip.
@@RetroMetroism loved the PJ’s too, Everybody Hates Chris, and go back far enough I loved Fat Albert as a kid. Understanding that type of humor comes from growing up in that kind of environment made it a lot funnier to me than any kind of “insert token black character joke”, where I think as long as you understand that it’s not everyone that acts like that, but just plays up the stereotypes just for jabs and laughs. I can see how it offends people, but don’t we all need to laugh at ourselves at the end of the day to solve race issues? I like to think the comedy should bring us more together, but it’s a whole can of worms, and I’m not fit to speak on black issues, as I am not.
imagine watching shows based off of “what skin color this show is about” lmao so fucking weird too label shows as a “black” show or a “white” show lol y’all racist as hell
Atlanta is also an amazing show, and as a white dude i appreciated how the show actually can educate people on black culture without having to cater to a white audience.
A series that did it right is Peanuts. For the Apple TV plus specials, they decided they wanted to focus on the side characters and give them the spotlight. Craig Schultz and Bryan Schultz decided to do a special about Franklin and said " People will be looking at this under a microscope we better get a good black writer." They got Rob Armstrong the creator of Jump Start another comic strip to write it.
I watched it the week it premiered. I really liked the special as I thought it did a good job representing someone like me living in a military family where moving every four years became the norm. The line about spending more time on the freeway than home really hits home (pun intended).
“It takes a million steps to climb the staircase into Hollywood and one misstep to fall down.” This analogy is so very good and so haunting at the same time.
Black Panther is a culturally black character but he and his mythology was created by two white Jewish guys, Stan Lee & Jack Kirby. It can be done if the creator puts some respect behind their efforts.
I think the obvious difference is; the bulk of Stan Lees and Kitby’s careers were spent fostering that reputation of listening to audiences and providing them with relatable stories. You dont do what they did by accident.
real talk i seen this trailer and was ashamed and disgusted by every black person attached to this. steph curry wild for attaching his name to this, i lost a lot of respect for the people who did.
I've been talking about how Seth mcfarlen's writing on black people has always been racist and out of touch for years. He hasn't really approached anything of blackness with any care or tact or understanding. Thank you for making this video.
I honestly think the Good Times reboot is Seth attempt at trying to prove the "can't make black characters" shots at him wrong more so than an honest attempt at recreating Good Times. He probably does like the original but isn't trying to get at the heart of the show.
@@suzygirl1843Sure they do, sometimes- and it's just as harmful. There were black actors doing minstrel shows back in the day. When we shift the blame from the perpetrators of a problem onto the people who *critique* that problem- we absolve the perpetrators of ever taking accountability. If a white writer depicts black people in a racist way, he deserves to be called out. Same goes for any other race. When you critique the system, someone is also gonna be there to tell you that YOU'RE the one at fault for pointing out an obvious issue. It shifts the blame.
I remember when Jordan Peele came out and said that he'd never make a film starring a white actor, and people were up in arms saying things like: "imagine if a white director said that about black actors?" But the funny thing is, most white directors don't have to explicitly say it. They just never make movies starring black actors.
I feel like the good times reboot was a tax write-off when they greenlit it cause ain't no way they saw this and thought, "Oh yea, it's all coming together" 😂
I liked the first episode a bit, cause as a hood dude, I found a lot of the jokes somewhat funny, seeing it was struggles that I been through and can relate to, but then It just gets weird and corny after the first two
As a Hispanic I don't believe in playing into tropes that make our people look bad, but rather believe in satirizing my own culture as a way for my people to be able to cope with the problems that affect our people.
That's what to the show, This fool did. There were two shows. Gentefied on Netflix and this fool on hulu. They're basically the same show, except one way better. Same settings, similar concept and even same actors. Gentefied felt like it was pandering, and to whom, I'm not sure. It tries to hard to seem authentically mexican while somehow feeling like it's for white folk whove never met any Latinos. It's wierd. This fool actually felt like a Latino family. Even though I'm from Texas so much of it is exactly what a Mexican mom or cousin would do. It doesn't try hard to feel mexican it just is. There's charcters off all background .
So you believe black people should let white people, the oppressor class, satirize their perception of black culture to help black people cope with problems that affect our people. Yeah that makes sense.
as a white person, ive always felt uncomfortable w how seth mcfarlane handles race jokes but always had a really hard time articulating exactly why - i don't necessarily think seth is maliciously racist, but like all white ppl (myself included) and ESPECIALLY as white americans, we have a huge disconnect/blind spot when it comes to black experiences. even those who feel entitled to it bc they surround themselves with black people, they will never understand it bc our experiences and histories and social expectations/conditioning are so different. and the general opinion seems to be , he's be better off not speaking on it at all EDIT: thank you for this video!!!! i think it's message comes across easy to understand and reminds me to keep my eyes open to who a target audience is for racially based shows
"i don't necessarily think seth is maliciously racist" i'd even wager that he's DESPERATELY trying to _not_ be racist, he's just.. not very good at it lol
@@idontwantahandlethough his jokes are literally "black guys is a victim of racism, black guy does something stereotypical", i'll say their the racist version of the in minecraft joke
@@idontwantahandlethough i can't stop thinking abt this reply bc it's so true fjdjjd it would tell people i found family guy kinda racist and white ppl around me would be like "nuh uh watch this" and show me an affectionately stereotyped to hell and back FG clip abt black people like this.... is not the defense you're looking for 😭 ppl love forgetting the road to hell is paved w good intentions 😔
@wallcity318 not really. Besides a comic brand specifically for fanfiction and whatever stories anyone wants to tell, called No Comics. "No" stands for Not Official
I always feel mainstream media at large has an unfair minority conundrum. Either You gleefully accept the harmful stereotypes they present of the minority of which you're part in the HOPES that you can one day move to undo the harm, or you can boycott it based on those stereotypes which they then justify to not produce any media about that group. I wish I had a solution to this. All in all, amazing video! :)
@@suzygirl1843 "That joke was racist" "MAYBE YOU SHOULD START YOUR OWN COMEDY CLUB" Gee thanks, very helpful. Nobody was begging to be included anywhere. Black people weren't asking for these shows- they are created and promoted to the world, giving a distorted image of an entire race of people. Why is it that when those people call it out, the blame is suddenly shifted onto them instead of the ones causing the harm?
@@suzygirl1843take accountability for what? Being black? Did you not see John Amos get fired for speaking to his experience as a Black man with a white executive producer?
@@suzygirl1843 we’re not begging for anything we didn’t beg or care for This show so theirs nothing to take accountability for if we’re not the naysayers nor want to be in your spaces we never did tbh why are you blaming blk ppl for just wanting to be represented not as a stereotype but actual human beings with actual qualities and not some one dimensional bullshit caricature but of course blk ppl have to be the villians all the time because you can’t fathom that
@@canthandlenohandleexactly we have to be the problem or the villians all the time when we just want to tell our own stories that aren’t so one dimensional but are human and empathetic but no we’re reduced to thugs, being negative and at the bottom and just shit and it fucking sucks and I’m tired we’re reduced to the image Hollywood portrays us and when we call them out we’re the problem
ooh exciting, thanks for bringing this up .. I love animated shows and listening to pillboy (after having randomly started watching boondocks), it sounds cool to see more shows that talk about life from a black person's perspective
I’m white, but I’ve always cringed at the way most of Hollywood portrays black people. It just isn’t funny to me. This video helped me understand the nuances of why it was so off putting. Thank you for making this, idk if it was for a certain audience or not, but i want to understand and treat everyone with as much respect and dignity as possible, and your points in this video helped me to understand our world better
I’m an indigenous guy from Mi'kmaq First Nation. It’s really really hard to find media where indigenous peoples such as myself properly portrayed. I am so glad there’s shoes like Reservation Dogs. Showing there’s more to indigenous cultures then just what shows up in out of date westerns. I’m not against the idea of different people writing different stories then their own, however it’s all too easy for the writer to not respect the people they are trying to write for. For me personally it’s just really educate yourself on stories before writing no matter the subject.
@@meatloaf7939 Yeah it ended and I left like it was missing something. One more season would’ve been super. Willie Jack is my favourite character. Her and Big are my favourite characters.
I think it'd be helpful if you would explain some examples like, "This episode was written by a white person and this scene shows how they can't write black stories" or "this episode was written by a black person and this scene illustrates how only a black creator could provide this perspective" Other than showing a couple clips, you never really got into the show itself, just what was going on behind the scenes.
I obviously can't speak for him, but this is my own explanation (I'm black and a writer). There's a fine line between culture and a stereotypical view of what constitutes as culture. And also, using racial stereotypes as a vehicle for addressing legitimate problems in a community vs. using racial stereotypes because you find them funny. For example, the exaggerated "ghetto" sounding dialogue in the Good Times reboot is something you would write if you had only limited conversations with black people. It's trying too hard to "sound black" which, as we all know, is a nonsense statement. It's not natural and honestly comes across as derogatory more than anything. What is the point but to convey her as loud and ratchety, which only perpetuates more harmful depictions of black women. Compare that to Miles dialogue with Aaron or his father in the Spiderverse movies, which I feel he should've included as a good example of white writers tackling Black culture/stories. It's grounded, it's realistic, and not trying too hard to make them sound "jive" or "urban" - that's what we want, not the opposite, but it's a tricky thing to accomplish if you don't understand the culture. However, it's obvious that the Spiderverse films did their research and that's why the result is something we can all enjoy. The clip with the cornbread (from the Seth show) is a harmful example because there's no nuance or punchline. "Hahahahaha Black people inexplicably love cornbread and its too irresistible for her" - that's it. That's the joke. It's derivative because, from what I can see, there's nothing to laugh at beyond a surface level, stereotypical racial joke. The episode seems to be making a "point" about cheap unhealthy foods plaguing low income neighborhoods, but the premise is undercut by the protagonist's inability to control herself around the food: it's portrayed as a _joke_ rather than a realization of a legitimate issue, which the episode sets up but fails to deliver. Ultimately, this shows that Seth is either disinterested or unwilling to go the distance in making a commentary on the problem he addressed - in a self-proclaimed Black show - but would rather roll back on his same old tired racial stereotypes to amuse white audiences. Quite conversely, the Boondocks has taken similar themes of food and used it to convey humorous _and_ nuanced statements about external (and internal) problems surrounding the black community (for example watch the Itis episode of the Boondocks ruclips.net/video/VU9AZoEvtRU/видео.html) The thing is, you can either write a show with Black people in it, or you can write a _Black_ show, which connotes conversations of the Black experience and social criticism/concerns.
Thank you for finally speaking about Seth dropping the ball on not just the Cleveland Show, but just failing to write black characters properly. I mean that episode based off the Travon Martin murder was just downright terrible. & don’t even get me started on Jerome and Cleveland’s “friendship”.
so how come you guys cry when people on media make fun of you but got no issue with woke shows and movies that are very VERY anti white and pro black and black supremacy
That Jerome and Cleveland pissed me off so much. Peter and the guys literally start hanging out with Jerome because he's black, like they actually say it. But Jerome is racist for saying the same thing🤔
@@coreyf3042 Like??? Can somebody bring some black writers in the room to write, unapologetically I might add, for black characters? This is why we didn’t watch/like The Cleveland Show.
Sad because the Good Times reboot's art direction is actually really interesting and cool! (IMO) I love the block-y angular style. The backgrounds are also super pretty.
Imo the art style is heavily influenced by Black Dynamite Animation's style. It's a much better show and a better animated one too, you should give it a watch instead of that reboot
I don't mind Cleveland being just a regular black guy in the group. He's just a regular dude. They don't need to "do" anything and I appreciate that. I
While I agree black writers should be writing black stories, I don't agree that white people should be prohibited from writing said stories. The problem is as you said, Hollywood's push for safer palatable content that makes them diluted and easier to digest for non-black audiences. But I don't think people of other ethnic backgrounds should be prohibited, they just need to be more well educated and consult the people they are trying to write a story about. It is definitely preferable and recommended to have people from said backgrounds to write stories about their backgrounds, but I don't think we should prohibit others from giving their perspective on said topics.
agreed. one of my first major expositions to south american culture was the Disney movie "the three Caballeros". was it accurate? probably not, for the most part. But it did portray South American countries as fun and colorful. though i was quite surprised when i heard that the disney movies about South America from back then, were actually produced for the south american market, specifically. (correct me if i'm wrong)
No one said you should be prohibited but you definitely should not be the only on that project speaking on the black experience. Having someone from the culture you are writing about is not a requirement but if you want to make something that is truthful to the the subject matter it should be the number one priority to not only have multiple consultants but also co writers from said culture. I feel like that should be the bare minimum but we don’t even get that most of the time lol
He’s not saying that anybody should be “prohibited.” The problem is that the empathy, self-reflection, collaboration, and research it would take for a writer outside of a culture to be able to represent it well is immense. And let’s face it: most people aren’t going to put in that effort because they don’t have any skin in the game. There are exceptions of course, but they’re far from the rule.
It’s not a prohibition it’s an inability. White people are clearly allowed to try to write black stories, but they CAN’T do it, it’s not possible, and it’s not because us black folk are preventing them, it’s because it just can’t happen. Like i can’t fly, but it’s not cause white people prohibited it😂
White people have done a terrible job of trying to write our stories. Boondocks has shown that the wheels of innovation move faster when originality is included.
Even more cringe as a black person to have to deal with people on the job, at school, etc. whose ideas about black people are shaped by these grotesque stereotypes. It's just one microaggression after another as they expect you to talk and act like the black folks they see on TV/in movies, but you don't. (I say 'black' because if they're really dumb they don't make any distinctions among African-Americans, Caribbean POC, and Africans, except sometimes they confuse all Caribbean people with Jamaicans)
The new Good Times? I thought it was . . . all right, in absurdist kind of way. The humor was so out there and sometimes so visceral and gross that it reminded me of Metalocalypse (which I liked.) I like cartoons that know they're cartoons. On one hand I can understand how these characters could be upsetting to black viewers. On the other, I didn't like how this video singled out Lisa as problematic. She's an entrepreneur, a good friend, and that speech about the dog was some bonkers shit about a service animal in a storyline that's so out there, no one in the story knows if any of it really happened by the end. BTW I'm kind of surprised the Fox News pearl clutchers haven't ranted about the depiction of white power structures and the Chicago police in this show. It must REALLY not be on their radar.
@@halcyon.x or cause they didn't notice it (it wasn't marketed towards them) or don't like the pandering the same way black people don't. To me this is the black Oye Primos, black people from many sides of the political spectrum have decided unanimously it sucks, and it is GLORIOUS
I'm latino, and we kind of have the same issue. Like even when something is fairly well done (I thought Coco was well done) it ultimately comes with the idea of trying to take a large chunk of the culture, see if it's monetizable, and if it is, try and steal it (Disney literally tried to trademark Día de los Muertos). I think that people outside of the culture can make something that is valuable to the culture, but it generally has to come from a fairly rare kind of person with the intelligence, artistic ability, empathy and understanding to be able to do it effectively. The example that I always come back to is Martin Wong developing the Puerto Rican day parade paintings. The problem is that the predominantly white men in power who are in charge of doing this either never had, or their position has caused them to eventually lose, the empathy required to do something that was already exceedingly rare to do in the first place.
The problem with this perspective is that there's no singular "black narrative" - each black individual has their own story. It's important to recognize that no group is monolithic; everyone is distinct. Unfortunately, acknowledging this doesn't feed into the divisive narratives that many profit from.
Exactly. Also my viewpoint. there is no singular black narrative. Not every black person has the same story. There may be cases where there are some common themes between some of those stories though
Right I was too confused by that because he kept mentioning the black experience but also saying that the black people involved unabashedly adhere to the stereotype but it's like there's no true black experience. And if we are truly saying black then that means the black experience extends way more than American culture.
@@luckybilly4maybe he was talking about the culture’s perspective specific to black Americans. It’s kinda like if I want to write a Chinese perspective story I would want Chinese writers cause of their background. Though idk why he thinks that white writers can’t tell the black experience. I mean the original fresh prince did a pretty good job and it was by white writers. I do want more black writers but to say it’s not possible I think is untrue.
@@jamman9569Considering black people have had to consume and relate to media where white people are the default group being portrayed in media, not really.
_"But when a character's identity is directly connected to their racial and cultural identity -- say Black Panther for example -- you can't change that, or else you change the story."_ Although Black Panther was received more positively by the community it depicts (Black Africans) than The Cleveland Show and the Good Times reboot, it actually suffers from the same problem as those shows, as it was originally created by White writers, and the creators of the recent films don't have cultural connections to any specific African ethnic groups. The films present a mishmash of cultural influences from across Africa, rather than the cultural specificities that you would expect if they were written for any specific African ethnic group or nation, meaning that the films were written for Black westerners more than for any community in Africa. A Black Panther film created by filmmakers from the region that Wakanda is supposed to be in (somewhere in East Africa) would give us a very different depiction of Wakandan culture.
Good point. My brother's girlfriend is Ethiopian and she disliked Black Panther for that reason. She claimed it was an African story written for and by black Americans without much in the way of accuracy or respect for any actual African culture.
A good "black story" is one that doesn't polarize themselves and can transcend race that everyone can enjoy. Ones that treat black people with respect and authenticity, and the characters are complex and don't rely on ignorant stereotypes that the writers think is "funny." I'm white as can be, and some of my favorite shows growing up that just so happen to have an all black or almost all black cast were shows like Martin and the Fresh Prince of Bel Air. I miss those days...
I’m not sure why people get offended when people say “Hey you probably can’t write that.” In regards to modern racial experiences. Like if I, a city gal, wrote story centering around growing up in rural America I doubt anyone who actually grew up in rural America would resonate or enjoy the book. Like yes, write diverse, interesting stories including lots of different types characters but there’s no reason to try and write a story centering around a modern, cultural experience you yourself will never be able to fully grasp or understand the nuance of. It’s okay to say, hey my voice isn’t needed in this conversation, but I’m down to listen. Also love the animation, super nice touch.
People cry a river when someone tell them that they cant write a good female/teenage/black/gay characters Now that I said it out loud I do see where they're coming from but that's just pathetic, man And they sometime even go "I'll show them" and still write the worst, unfunniest, cringiest, semi-racist characrers
I've always thought stories shouldn't necessarily be limited by the writer's own life. The writers of Scarface weren't Cuban refugees or cartel bosses like the characters, but they managed to tell a fantastic story that still holds up as a classic to this day. What the writers of Scarface did have was tact and respect for the people that characters like Tony Montana were based on, something that Seth McFarlane lacked with his stories.
You earned a subscription. Everything Ive preached for a few years now. I love seeing minorities have a higher understanding of the society we are surviving in. Thank you💯💯💯💯💯
Boondocks is great for any audience, it's not made with a specific audience in mind. It features black people but its not just for black people, anyone can enjoy it, and that's what makes it great.
@@stargirIll The show was inspired by Black culture and made mostly by Black folk but it wasn't made with Black people in mind. That's why there are jokes for both sides in the show. Did we watch the same Boondocks?
I don't know if it was made with a Black audience prioritised (I hope so, lol) but I'm 100 percent white and British and I love it. It's universally watchable. That doesn't mean it's not ade for a Black audience just that it's accessable and funny regardless. I don't know I'm getting the full experience just that I'm getting a GOOD one.
Your soundtrack selection is IMMACULATE and, combined with your stylish visuals with the animated sona and the super slick chapter title cards, makes this video super watchable.
As a white dude, what would you recommend for media that accurately represents black story telling? Also, your video reminded me of FD Signifier's video about Black Panther and how even with all of its black representation it still simped for the CIA.
We went from strong male figures like Roc trying to protect his family and his neighborhood from drug pushers to shows like the Good Times reboot and record companies encouraging and promoting rappers who brag about taking molly, lean and pills. Society lost its way big time in the last 30 years.
The jungle beats in the background, the style of the animation, well thought out takes that are nuanced but don't hold back- bro is gonna be my new go to vid essayist
Im probably going to get a lack of flack for this. And I apologize for the long comment Idk. But Im a black woman in her late 20s. I feel like thats another representation in itself thats not potrayed as accurately or and as relatable to me. Maybe im coming from a different pov but to me there is either no such thing as the black experience or its more vast than prople are giving it credit to. To me I say in the end the black experience is simply being black and experiencing life. Whatever that means to you. We do not all live the same life. Some of us are genuinly more like the parodies they critisized. I have encountered a few older black men like clevelend. Granted Ill admit, initially, if one talked to them on the phone, im sure one would make assumptions if they were black or not. But no they were black. We also need to understand the nuance with the black experience if youre specifically saying black, then that extends way more than black American culture. I know there is a difference between European black culture and American black culture and African black culture. Also, there is no set line between a black person who genuinely adheres to stereotypes and one who is actually a caricature/parody of something white people created. For example... if black writers are involved and there are black characters, how can we genuinly differentiate between whats real to them and parody. Black people aren't a monolith. Growing up, I didn't exactly relate to a lot of media. Obviously, the white shows didn't exactly relate, but neither did a lot of black media at the time. In the sense, I was stuck in limbo because I was a black kid raised in a majority white suburb. So, as an individual, i might have related more to one white character over a black one. Even in today's world, I have yet to find a show with characters that truly spoke to me. I guess the closest right now is maybe Sydeney from the bear or Janine from Abbot Elementary . I actually related a lot to Issa Raes series Awkward black girl, but insecure as a whole didnt speak to me and I watched the whole show. The times I watched Atlanta it seemed more about the black man experience than the woman. But its still a story that needed to be told. And unpopular opinion the American Negro Society wasnt the worst because watching the movie I thought it was a satire/parody of us always catering to white people and in the sense yes that storyline got criticism but it is true that we have to utulize some form of magic to cater to white people. Hence your point about black adhering to the narratives that white people like (they could still be a part of their black experience for some but some are definitely there just to adhere to the stereotype). I.e Tyler Perry. Also I watched the American negro film as more of making fun of white people as well. Even the so called white liberal ones who attempt to "help" The film still had a bunch of flaws attached to it which is why I wouldnt describe it as a good film but its not the worst and I related to certain aspects. The point it was also trying to make was how a bircial person may be playing the middle. Im not biracial like that so idk but whos say there arent a demographic of biracial people who is like that. For me the characters were one dimensial, movie was too long, not enough background information on the magic or why our sole purpose in magic was to please white people. It did also cater to your point that white people are scared to talk about race. Again even the so called white liberals one, i still live in the suburbs and there blatant tone deafness in the form of passive helping is definitely loud. Its worse than direct racism imo because they convinced themselves they are so different than the kkk direct racists. And i feel like thats not exactly talked about as much in todays world that needs to. But Ill say I disagree with you a bit on us not stopping white people from telling our stories. I personally see potential because we are more accountable due to social media and because of that we do have a bit more freedom on releasing content about the black experience. We dont have to solely rely on Hollywood. I believe there is progress that is happening and Ill argue the white liberal is delaying that process as much. But its there.
Like you said critiquing our own is a whole nother video. That in itself is mind blowing. Because as soon as a black person critiques another black person all hell breaks loose.
I don't have anything against Seth McFarland. His writing style is lazy mainly modern Family Guy. He's not bad he just gets lazy when he stops caring. Cleveland Show was just a bad experiment, not funny just lazy. I don't think Seth MacFarlane really cares about the concept of Good Time, but it's written for Profit. Shows get made for profit and if they're not good they get cancelled. The question is what's more important? Being entertaining or sending a message? You can have a message in your show, but you gotta be entertaining first.
You only have 8K followers?? Nah we changing that. Really strong content you’re making. I feel really heard and scene as a black man working in television.
25:22 “At the end of the day, your impact will always outweigh your intentions,” is so perfectly said. I was just today trying to explain that general idea to my son (much less eloquently).
This video is egregiously unfair to the Cleveland show. As a point, taking a comedy show from Seth MacFarlane this seriously is already contentious. Seth MacFarlane believe it or not does not write every episode of the series he creates. He only wrote a whopping one episode of the show. And the show did have multiple writers of differing races, including Clarence Livingston and Courtney Lilly. And to reiterate, it is a goddamn Cleveland show. People watch that show to laugh. The idea that a person of X race cannot write a story about a person of Y's races struggles sounds like bs. Chris Claremont of the X-Men wrote countless stories of different characters from different parts of the world and their struggles. Characters like Forge and Mirage have their cultural backgrounds very explicitly tied to their characters. The man is Jewish yet wrote multiple stories about deeply Christian characters like Nightcrawler, Karma, and Wolfsbane. And of course, he wrote characters like Storm and Sunspot, both of whom were very much tied to their cultural background with Storm and her childhood in Kenya and Sunspot with his background of being discriminated for being considered half black. We have had George Perez who is a man writing Wonder Woman whom is a woman, and that run he wrote was met with widespread acclaim especially from women. The point is more so of simply bad writing rather than not being a person of that lived experience.
The problem is most these people don’t know about it at all and just spew black people as the ghetto loud and obnoxious. How many shows have u seen where white dudes act like their from the trailer park compared to the amount of shows where blck people act hood
Seth McFarland didn't really want to make the Cleveland show. Fox wanted another adult animated comedy but wanted one that targeted a black audience. So seth sort of shrugged and said sure. Seth. Isn't really passionate about the animated show anymore, which is why he doesn't really write them anymore. He's way more invested in his other shows like ted and the Orville. Speaking of the Orville,theres a prominent black character named Claire in it and shes one of the best characters on the show
Here's the thing though; he still *did.* People act as if the guy is some poor tortured artist being held hostage by Fox, but y'all are not this naive, I hope. Macfarlane is just like everyone else in Hollywood; he makes this crap because it still makes *money.* Regardless of how talented he might or might not be otherwise, that's reality.
@@PhoenixRising87 he did it for a contractual reason, its not like he made it because he felt he could tell a black familys story, his boss told him to do a job so he did it
I remember reading that The Cleveland Show was Mike Herny's idea (OG Cleveland voice) and Seth just gave him the keys to the show. Heck, Seth voiced the Bear until the following season.
I think there is a space for Black Shows for mostly white audiences, but they do seriously need black writers in the room too, maybe even leading just to not only be authentic, but to have some sort of good nature to not spiral down into a pitfall of racism, white guilt, or (in the case of Cleveland Show) oddness? That said, it'd be nice if those shows also didn't sell themselves as a "Black Show", but I don't know how they really could otherwise. I say this, because there should be a space for Black Shows for a black audience, where the black audience can laugh at a show or enjoy it, without worrying about what white people think or will come away from it. I think it's idealistic, because you get shows like Boondocks which seemed to be for a black audience, and you see how it's success lead to WB selling it internationally and suddenly you got Japanese or Dutch voice actors using the N-word... but then there are also shows like Black Jesus that also seemed mostly for us that don't have that issue. I don't know, I'm happy with a mix in that just gives more diversity in thought of what is blackness... so other people can stereotype less.. lol. But seriously, some of the things they have Cleveland say in Family Guy straight up feels like it's what a white guy thinks Black people are like or appreciate. (And I don't mean when it's the joke, like with the "Grape Soda today" joke but almost all the time)
What’s so sad about Good Times reboot is that the animation and art direction is really great, however it’s just based on shock. Anything Seth writes is horrible besides American Dad as you said.
Yeah it's sad that's all the media rep Laotians get, white showrunners creating a family where 1 voice actor is white and thwe other 2 are Lauren Tom. (much as I love Lauren Tom). It's not even the preferred pronunciation of Laos. idk if it was at the time.
As a white female neurodivergent aspiring screenwriter writing twelve spec screenplays with two of them having different shades of black characters for reasons that will not concern you for the most part (one was at first literally only light skinned black because she doesn’t like the color purple and that was the one shade in Crayola’s Colors Of The World that if they wore purple, they’d look like they had jaundice, but, now, I realize making the characters not be white might actually be helping address the point of the story because it is about how America is too politically divided, how both major political parties have shortcomings, and no one knows how to anymore and thinking putting someone other than a crusty old white dude might put this on more neutral ground.), my issue and someone said this earlier but it bares repeating: your race is only part of your identity. It should not be your ENTIRE identity. The thing is you never see much fluctuations in between characters in these shows and it is partly Hollywood’s fault. You never see a black woman with either a flat chest or Hank Hill’s butt unless it’s someone under 12 who’s a protester. You almost never see a black LGBTQ+ character as a main character (not black shows, but, shoutout to Brooklyn 99 and Bob’s Burgers on that front.). You never see a black person who is into punk, heavy metal, hard rock, country, or any genre that isn’t hip hop, rap, soul, disco or some version of pop/top 100s. You don’t know much about their likes and dislikes It’s rare to see a black teenager do things other than playing basketball as an extracurricular or something INSANELY academic. You always see parents have zero respect for the children and you never see a kid with a strained relationship with their mother. You never even see a black family that is Muslim or atheist. You never see black people with dietary restrictions. And, marrying a white man/woman is always treated like it’s possession of child pornography. HOWEVER, the intelligent of you have probably met a black mother who could NEVER bring herself to lay a finger on her child, even if they struck first. Or you know someone who is black and gay. Or, you know someone who is one of the few black Trump Supporters. Or, even someone who is black and atheist! The two problems with Hollywood is: 1.)Insanely Formulaic Writing That Follows Established Patterns And Only focusing on getting an audience rather than retaining an audience. 2.)It’s Write What You Know when the phrase should really be Know What You Write
Black panther was created by the Jewish writers/Artist Jack Kirby and Stan Lee to help address the serious issue of a lack of mainstream black characters at the time. Just wanted to put that out there.
Can I get a list of all the background music for this video? I had to rewatch the video again cuz I found myself just vibing. However you had a very important take on this and I had to listen again.
As an aspiring director I feel this. Recently ive started my short film journey just trying tell stories from our perspective.( And I fw the drum n bass background music)
People need to stop trashing respectability politics because it has a very significant usage. When a group conducts themselves respectfully and are mistreated it makes it clear they are not the root of the problem and neutralizes negative propaganda directed at them. Respectability politics won't solve the problems people face but it removes certain barriers.
That is true. Europeans did not invent respectability. Every _functional_ culture has rules of respectability. Innuit in the Arctic have rules of respectability. So do Polynesians in the Pacific, Indians in India, and Japanese in Japan. You go to a village in Ghana and act a fool...someone's going to tell you, "We don't do that here." Even if the rules differ, it's always possible to see that a culture has its own rules. Rejecting _all_ rules of respectability in recent decades is why American black culture has been swiftly failing. Those "black stories for white people" are of people with no sense of any rules of respectability.
@@rdkirk3834 Most Black Americans are not "rejecting all rules of respectability." People just like the Black Americans who do, and continue to put them in the limelight. In fact, Black America has been very vocal about this. This is just another version of "well, all stereotypes have some truth to it," even though you can look up information disproving those very sterotypes.🙄
@@matxalenc8410 The rejection by black people of "respectability" is even being taught in college black studies today. This video even trashes respectability. It's not politics, it's having standards of behavior. "Cain nobody tell me nothing" is the current standard in the black culture...those of us who maintain standards of behavior are criticized for "acting white," as though having standards was innately a white characteristic.
The problem with respectability politics is that it doesn't save people. You can be as polite and well-dressed, educated and well-spoken, etc. and you're still living under white supremacy, and still subject to racism in various forms.
Respectability is nice on an individual level. If you code switch and get those accomplishments, people are more likely to respect you on an individual level. But for a whole community it just leads to tone policing and in fighting. Trans people have been going through this discussion as a community as well. There are some vehement trans creators who think that non-binary trans people should be eradicated because they make the rest of the trans community look more confusing and entitled. This is where the in-fighting and identity policing lies. The reality is that your average lawmaker or bigot doesn’t care about how neatly you fit into the box of your desired gender role-they gonna believe whatever stereotype they want about you because their belief doesn’t come from rational examples, but due to systemic prejudice. You can’t out-logic a belief that they didn’t use logic to create. Caitlyn Jenner is an out and about successful trans woman, and she gets clowned on because they don’t care. And even if your average transphobe maybe will change his mind if you talk to him with your respectable image, he’ll still attack your non-binary comrades because “you’re one of the good ones” and the non-binary ones are not “respectable” enough. On a fundamental level, I do agree people should strive to become respectable because it does open doors for you, but not only is what’s respectable very exclusionary (ie non-binary people can’t be “respectable”), but you can’t really expect to enforce this on a larger scale. And if you can’t organize this on a larger scale, then the change will remain individual. Also “neutralizes propaganda” That’s only if the truth gets out there. But as we’ve seen with Israel and Gaza, no matter how innocent, it’s harder to disprove evil propaganda than to spread it. Hell, Seth McFarlane can make these disrespectful/unrespectable shows about black people, and he’s not even black. Who is disproving his show to the audience who watches it?
This channel is amazing, I’m not gonna lie, it’s something about the style of the video that’s really engaging to watch. Maybe I’m just yapping but this channel is definitely gonna be big by the end of the year, no question
😂😅😂 Right I felt weird when Snoop dog said what he said. Because granted I do understand what he's saying about it. But also as a character who was more so in the background I liked that he wasn't. And imo I would agree it isn't the best Seth MacFarlane shows. But overall as it's own content it wasn't bad and I liked the fact that black actors voiced the characters so I was supporting them as well.
This video is good but I don't understand why you kept saying Seth Macfarlane was the showrunner for the Good Times reboot. He's just an executive producer on it, he didn't even direct or write an episode of it.
Because he is disingenuous. Think about what does "white audience" really means. These shows are universally panned by both whites and blacks. I'm asain and the worst racism against us is privileged blacks. This guy is a racist with no accountability
The introduction of your Pillboy persona is a little confusing because it appears the moment you talk about "celebrating black on-screen representation", so I just assumed you were showing some clips from a professional cartoon with black cartoon characters. Also, I really like that you chose gray tones to do brown skin, complementary to how white characters being drawn paper-white. Simplified character designs like that using a single hue, rather than a range of colors for highlights and shadows (see steven universe for example), to represent skin are kinda off-putting to me when the color of choice tries to be a natural skin color, and for some reason it happens more often with brown characters than white ones (beige stick figures are kinda rare to see), so gray is a really good choice.
the only good thing about the new good times is the animation. regardless of the writing I'm still kinda happy that adult animation is slowly freeing itself from copying family guy
Different direction than what I thought from the title, but really nice work! Love the animation inserts! As a white guy from the suburbs of the PNW, I’ve been looking to deconstruct or analyze my exposure to black media as a kid. I grew up watching “the Proud Family,” “Static Shock,” and “My Wife and Kids” on TV, and “You Got Served” was a surprisingly formative movie for me. Growing up Pentecostal, it was also a strange trip rediscovering and becoming nostalgic over Gospel artists like Fred Hammond and Israel Houghton as an adult. Engaging with black *communities* wasn’t really an option for me as a child, and something I’m trying to do better with as a 20-something adult, but I still wonder the impact that media and cultural exposure had on me as a kid. And that takes a lot of IMDB research to look into the creators, the writers, and response from the black community to gauge, but I’m nothing if not a learner! As far as Seth McFarland’s shows, never watched them! But glad you get to tackle them in this video.
Oh man, I love movies & shows analysis & reviews, especially when it is being done by black folks. It gets really redundant when the perspective being pushed are through white folks' lenses mostly ( algorithm wise), it was a struggle to find black content creators making anime reviews cause they are hardly pushed....blessed to be on this side of RUclips :)
Dude, amazing video. It actually made me think about how as a FOB who moved to the West from SE Asia at 14 yrs old it's crazy that the exact situation you're talking about happened in 'Fresh Off the Boat' sitcom for us Asian Americans. The people they hired to write it are not even East / Southeast Asian and the final say when it came to scripts / directing were ultimately by white people (Hollywood Jewish Elites) and whitewashed Asians who are trying to suck up to them. The sitcom was just "we're white people but we use chopsticks and eat rice! so exotic and weird right? And OMG Boba is so good and we speak CHINESE so quirky!" with zero consideration for what it actually means to be an Asian immigrant. It's basically a continuation of what people like Seth Macfarlane and Norman Lear do with Black TV shows, they literally can't fathom that things can be THAT different and don't even make an effort to listen or figure it out from people actually from those communities. They never learn.
I dont think the Cleveland show is bad because it was made by a white guy, I think it's bad because it's bad lol. When it comes to white people writing black stories, I think it's most certainly possible and plausible. Django unchained is a brutal honest look at slavery and its horrible history, and it portrays its topic and django as a character very well. I do agree that culture is lost in translation with Seth McFarlane tho
Also, don't forget that ALOT of new media like these shows are aimed exclusively at the younger audience. That is why the life lesson shows most GenX and Millennials grew up with are basically gone for quick shock value. And im gonna disagree. It is okay to bully. You don't get people like Seth (when he isn't writing black stories he really aint that bad), or even worse offenders of just making a quick buck off black trauma because we dont bully. Shame and negative emotions are a big influence, and from a creative standpoint, you can see the creative bankruptcy of giving anyone the pass just because.
Honestly I feel the Cleveland show was just an attempt to make black family guy. Which was attempted poorly I believe in the episode Cleveland returns one character even says “who did you make it for? Some black guy who’s never met another black guy?”
Neither does steph curry... I think we steadily skip.over that.. the whole pass that was given , was due to thinking Steph would understand anything about blackness since he was funding the project.. instead he has more in common with his mother..
I walked in to my partner watching the show and quietly kept my thoughts to myself. it was the episode of the wife fixing the hood ony having to undo the work to appease the government and man it just felt like...such a spit in the face Also i really couldnt get jiggy with the art design of the show but maybe thats just me
I hear you, I feel you, problem is that Hollywood has the platform and the money. All the "black" media we consume isn't even made without the same people you're complaining about.
Eh the intro saying "racist factory reset" has some extreme racism towards white people undertones that I cant seem to shake. It's like you're saying that all white people by default must learn how to not be racist and are racist by factory default. I get it, it could be shuffled off as a joke but damn does it not have the most gross undertone for white racism I have heard in a video trying to be about equality in awhile. I hope I'm reading this wrong and you're a great guy, but damn man.
Don’t worry, I know the sync is off for this one. Close your eyes and pretend
Just for you, I will 😌
Also wasn't black panther comic book written by white guys
Also seth macfarlane aint write or create good times he just produced it
@@stewart950 but the comic wasn’t telling a black story. His point was If black panther was any other race, that story could be told. In the Netflix good times show, if you changed the race, you’d have to change the story. Why are you pretending you don’t understand?
You sound like a clown being apologetic how you come out swinging then say don’t bully anyone you sound scared the ones doing the bullying are them there the ones not letting black people tell there stories the way they should and if you want to call me a hater for calling that out then so fucking be it but I’m not apologizing for nothing that I say unlike you
Atlanta, Everybody Hates Chris, and Boondocks are a few examples of shows that have great black humor. Surprise surprise, they’re written by black folks.
Love Atlanta.
Except Season 4 of The Boondocks was written by a white women...
@@checkmate5336 and I think we can all agree thats the worst season.
@@lilpimp994 Agreed 🤝🏾
@checkmate5336 and that's why it wasn't good. Lol
The funny part is that Seth Macfarlane’s best works are stuff like american dad and the Ted tv show, which is just him being himself. Which makes him wanting to make these black shows even weirder
What do you mean seth only wrote the concept and the pilot of american dad, yes initally they were following his concept with a much more focused theme on political stories, but by the time of the 4th-5th season the political satire largely disappeared, there are political episodes as far as the 9th season but most of Them are more a back drop for comedy than anything else, his most important role here these days is being stan and roger voice actor.
Him being himself is a racist person obviously.
And The Orville
American Dad is the true black sitcom if you ask me.
@@TJLea-ps6cl FAXXXXXXXXXXXX
Denzel said it best, "it's not color, it's culture." The things you see on TV, especially the news, hardly ever scratches the surface of what black culture really is and I mean both good and bad. We hold movies likw Boys in the Hood and Menace to Society close because they take a deep dive through the inner city struggles. There are topics on drugs, gang violence, poverty, single parent households, nature vs nurture, discrimination, survival of the fittest. There are so many topics in these 2 movies alone that black people deal with and relate to and I aint even the war against the system and cops. These shows nowadays understand color but barely have a clue when it comes to culture.
Agreed
It is Silk Road, Amber Road and Royal Road as main vein trade routes. If the world claims we have no culture yet barely scrape the surface why is it so difficult to see beyond. The lands of America were born to reset all of visual art there is Edison vs Hollywood and the code sets.
never thought about it like that but that makes a lot of sense!
So with this mindset and ideology the good times reboot is exactly what you described like it or not those things need to be shouldn’t be put on a pedestal.
It’s both culture and color. You have to not only be racially black but culturally black. I don’t want an African telling my story anymore then a White American.
With Seth MacFarlane, he doesn't just have no real experience with the black experience, I think he has little understanding of the human experience in general. All of his media seems weirdly twisted from real life
it’s like he views reality through the lens of an 80s sitcom
@@sagecorduroy that is a very good point
Of course he doesn't. He's from New England - a region that is not known to have a lot of black people.
Notably how all of his media treats trans people...
@@RyanStorey1231There are plenty black people in new england
“When you reminisce on the past with rose tinted glasses, it’s easy to miss all the red flags”
he bit that line off Bojack Horseman lol
That’s from Bojack Horseman? I could’ve sworn that was just a classic idiom
@@studiopillboy I've never seen it anywhere else but it's always possible that I'm just uncultured
🥲👉👉
Why do you let the past control you?
@@inkchariot6147 The past effects everything. It’s why things are how they are.
There may be black writers for the show, but the comedians writing the jokes are white (aka seth). They are his "N-word" pass if you will. so its really a bunch of black writers doing consulting work for a white comedian who gets to tell black jokes using animation as a medium for a white audience. Basically Seth gets to tell "Chicken and watermelon" jokes with black approval.
Gary Owen is even worse with that 😂
I don't think that's any different than when you can obviously tell there are black people writing white characters. I hate to break it to ya ya, almost every white character written by black people is either a goofball 1950s stereotype saying crap like you betcha, or they are just mean and or racist😂
isn’t it also like, a form black face??? this is just bonkers what white ppl in hollywood get away with
You could make the same exact argument for rap music who do you think signs most of the record labels not BLACKS!
@@ShamanTiersBut typically the black artist is the one with the creative control, signing to a label would be like having a company publish a book you wrote for you.
I've always wanted to see a black character who is really into punk rock and metal, just to break some stereotypes, and to show that black people are way more eclectic in their music tastes than pop culture lets on. I'm not black, but I would imagin it would be a bit frusterating for people assume you only like to listen to R&B and rap.
Not black either but as a goth who sees a lot of poc and black goths, it would be rly nice for that to be reflected in some of the media. I feel like you would like Wendelle and Wilde. The main character is a black punk and there is even a trans character too.
@@Nilufar_Nasha_Luvs_Catzz jesus christ you guys are like practically fetishizing making people of color the star of the shows lmao nothing wrong with diversity but there’s something wrong with being like “Oh okay how about every show is just black people and hispanics and whatever the hell” also people of color gotta be the most weirdest racist shit ever and for some reason it’s still acceptable to say weird
Hobie in Across the Spiderverse, thats one example and fairly recent, but having one example shows some kind of progress
man y’all are fucking OBSESSED with race
Wendell and wild’s main character is into rock music and dresses alt. Dope the movie main characters are in a rock band and they’re black and brown.
I'm glad someone finally said it. Honestly, trying to tell white people to watch shows like Boondocks if they actually want to experience black humor written by black people is always a trip.
I’m in a weird spot because I loved the boondocks but I like this new show too
@scottoleson1997 Boondocks definitely isn't the end all be all. But boondocks immediately makes me feel understood.
@@RetroMetroism loved the PJ’s too, Everybody Hates Chris, and go back far enough I loved Fat Albert as a kid. Understanding that type of humor comes from growing up in that kind of environment made it a lot funnier to me than any kind of “insert token black character joke”, where I think as long as you understand that it’s not everyone that acts like that, but just plays up the stereotypes just for jabs and laughs. I can see how it offends people, but don’t we all need to laugh at ourselves at the end of the day to solve race issues? I like to think the comedy should bring us more together, but it’s a whole can of worms, and I’m not fit to speak on black issues, as I am not.
imagine watching shows based off of “what skin color this show is about” lmao so fucking weird too label shows as a “black” show or a “white” show lol y’all racist as hell
Atlanta is also an amazing show, and as a white dude i appreciated how the show actually can educate people on black culture without having to cater to a white audience.
A series that did it right is Peanuts. For the Apple TV plus specials, they decided they wanted to focus on the side characters and give them the spotlight. Craig Schultz and Bryan Schultz decided to do a special about Franklin and said " People will be looking at this under a microscope we better get a good black writer." They got Rob Armstrong the creator of Jump Start another comic strip to write it.
I watched it the week it premiered. I really liked the special as I thought it did a good job representing someone like me living in a military family where moving every four years became the norm. The line about spending more time on the freeway than home really hits home (pun intended).
“It takes a million steps to climb the staircase into Hollywood and one misstep to fall down.” This analogy is so very good and so haunting at the same time.
wow, so deep!
Black Panther is a culturally black character but he and his mythology was created by two white Jewish guys, Stan Lee & Jack Kirby. It can be done if the creator puts some respect behind their efforts.
it's all a matter of doing proper research
I think the obvious difference is; the bulk of Stan Lees and Kitby’s careers were spent fostering that reputation of listening to audiences and providing them with relatable stories. You dont do what they did by accident.
why tf do we need them. this is the problem
@@whookedneed who?
Best comment thus far
real talk i seen this trailer and was ashamed and disgusted by every black person attached to this. steph curry wild for attaching his name to this, i lost a lot of respect for the people who did.
We need to let Netflix know how we feel about the reboot
A comment I saw:
"Someone revoke Step's 2% black card!"
I've been talking about how Seth mcfarlen's writing on black people has always been racist and out of touch for years. He hasn't really approached anything of blackness with any care or tact or understanding. Thank you for making this video.
Thats true. Even the black woman in The Orville is a bundle of stereotypes of black women.
I honestly think the Good Times reboot is Seth attempt at trying to prove the "can't make black characters" shots at him wrong more so than an honest attempt at recreating Good Times. He probably does like the original but isn't trying to get at the heart of the show.
Black men make stereotypical stories too.
@@suzygirl1843Sure they do, sometimes- and it's just as harmful. There were black actors doing minstrel shows back in the day.
When we shift the blame from the perpetrators of a problem onto the people who *critique* that problem- we absolve the perpetrators of ever taking accountability.
If a white writer depicts black people in a racist way, he deserves to be called out. Same goes for any other race.
When you critique the system, someone is also gonna be there to tell you that YOU'RE the one at fault for pointing out an obvious issue. It shifts the blame.
@@canthandlenohandlesolid response
Way to blame the white person for a show that has a black showrunner and black actors.
The show has a black showrunner.
I remember when Jordan Peele came out and said that he'd never make a film starring a white actor, and people were up in arms saying things like: "imagine if a white director said that about black actors?" But the funny thing is, most white directors don't have to explicitly say it. They just never make movies starring black actors.
I saw no marketing for the good times “reboot” and when i watched it, i realized why😂
I feel like the good times reboot was a tax write-off when they greenlit it cause ain't no way they saw this and thought, "Oh yea, it's all coming together" 😂
I liked the first episode a bit, cause as a hood dude, I found a lot of the jokes somewhat funny, seeing it was struggles that I been through and can relate to, but then It just gets weird and corny after the first two
Seth or steph haven't even marketed the show yet 😂😂
@@Reemdonn definitely. After the 3rd or 4th hood joke i was like “ight i get it yall they in the hood. Dont beat me over the head about“
shut it off literally within 2 mins
"Uh... How long have you been black." - John Amos (James Evans, Sr.) to "Good Times" executive producer Norman Lear
As a Hispanic I don't believe in playing into tropes that make our people look bad, but rather believe in satirizing my own culture as a way for my people to be able to cope with the problems that affect our people.
Yes a coping mechanism
That's the difference between this "Good Times" and "The Boondocks."
That's what to the show, This fool did.
There were two shows. Gentefied on Netflix and this fool on hulu. They're basically the same show, except one way better. Same settings, similar concept and even same actors.
Gentefied felt like it was pandering, and to whom, I'm not sure. It tries to hard to seem authentically mexican while somehow feeling like it's for white folk whove never met any Latinos. It's wierd.
This fool actually felt like a Latino family. Even though I'm from Texas so much of it is exactly what a Mexican mom or cousin would do.
It doesn't try hard to feel mexican it just is. There's charcters off all background .
So you believe black people should let white people, the oppressor class, satirize their perception of black culture to help black people cope with problems that affect our people. Yeah that makes sense.
@@johnindigo5477 gentefied sounds like Border Town from what I've heard of that Netflix cartoon.
Finally someone who also shares my hatred for Soul Plane
Same
😂
Primm an allstar crazy seeing you here.
😂😂😂
Oh I hated that movie when it came out. It was awful then and it is still awful.
as a white person, ive always felt uncomfortable w how seth mcfarlane handles race jokes but always had a really hard time articulating exactly why - i don't necessarily think seth is maliciously racist, but like all white ppl (myself included) and ESPECIALLY as white americans, we have a huge disconnect/blind spot when it comes to black experiences. even those who feel entitled to it bc they surround themselves with black people, they will never understand it bc our experiences and histories and social expectations/conditioning are so different. and the general opinion seems to be , he's be better off not speaking on it at all
EDIT: thank you for this video!!!! i think it's message comes across easy to understand and reminds me to keep my eyes open to who a target audience is for racially based shows
"i don't necessarily think seth is maliciously racist"
i'd even wager that he's DESPERATELY trying to _not_ be racist, he's just.. not very good at it lol
@@idontwantahandlethough his jokes are literally "black guys is a victim of racism, black guy does something stereotypical", i'll say their the racist version of the in minecraft joke
@@idontwantahandlethough i can't stop thinking abt this reply bc it's so true fjdjjd it would tell people i found family guy kinda racist and white ppl around me would be like "nuh uh watch this" and show me an affectionately stereotyped to hell and back FG clip abt black people like this.... is not the defense you're looking for 😭
ppl love forgetting the road to hell is paved w good intentions 😔
WHITE GUILT
My man here punching way above his sub count. This is art on art.
right??
very on point
I was shocked to see so few subscriptions! I swear I see people with huge numbers all the time with way worse quality videos!
I thought he had like 100k! This comment made me sub, thanks.
yeah he deserves millions, i subbed cos of this vid
As an aspiring writer/storyteller. I'm staying the hell away from Hollywood
Good
Anyone with a brain would stay out of that cesspool
U workin on anything good?
@wallcity318 not really. Besides a comic brand specifically for fanfiction and whatever stories anyone wants to tell, called No Comics. "No" stands for Not Official
The reason why is because I'm a teen
I always feel mainstream media at large has an unfair minority conundrum. Either You gleefully accept the harmful stereotypes they present of the minority of which you're part in the HOPES that you can one day move to undo the harm, or you can boycott it based on those stereotypes which they then justify to not produce any media about that group. I wish I had a solution to this. All in all, amazing video! :)
I still can't believe this show was actually made😅 I really hate Hollywood
TAKE ACCOUNTABILITY. You didn't want to build together, instead you kept begging to be included in white spaces.
@@suzygirl1843
"That joke was racist"
"MAYBE YOU SHOULD START YOUR OWN COMEDY CLUB"
Gee thanks, very helpful.
Nobody was begging to be included anywhere. Black people weren't asking for these shows- they are created and promoted to the world, giving a distorted image of an entire race of people. Why is it that when those people call it out, the blame is suddenly shifted onto them instead of the ones causing the harm?
@@suzygirl1843take accountability for what? Being black?
Did you not see John Amos get fired for speaking to his experience as a Black man with a white executive producer?
@@suzygirl1843 we’re not begging for anything we didn’t beg or care for This show so theirs nothing to take accountability for if we’re not the naysayers nor want to be in your spaces we never did tbh why are you blaming blk ppl for just wanting to be represented not as a stereotype but actual human beings with actual qualities and not some one dimensional bullshit caricature but of course blk ppl have to be the villians all the time because you can’t fathom that
@@canthandlenohandleexactly we have to be the problem or the villians all the time when we just want to tell our own stories that aren’t so one dimensional but are human and empathetic but no we’re reduced to thugs, being negative and at the bottom and just shit and it fucking sucks and I’m tired we’re reduced to the image Hollywood portrays us and when we call them out we’re the problem
we need another animated show like Static Shock. They would talk about a lot of stuff that a lot other shows wouldn’t even touch
beautiful hand drawn animation
ooh exciting, thanks for bringing this up .. I love animated shows and listening to pillboy (after having randomly started watching boondocks), it sounds cool to see more shows that talk about life from a black person's perspective
Exactly tbh they need to bring back that show it was so good and just so relatable especially as a teen just such a good show/ character
I’m white, but I’ve always cringed at the way most of Hollywood portrays black people. It just isn’t funny to me. This video helped me understand the nuances of why it was so off putting. Thank you for making this, idk if it was for a certain audience or not, but i want to understand and treat everyone with as much respect and dignity as possible, and your points in this video helped me to understand our world better
This was a nice comment to read. Thank you and have a great day.
I’m an indigenous guy from Mi'kmaq First Nation. It’s really really hard to find media where indigenous peoples such as myself properly portrayed. I am so glad there’s shoes like Reservation Dogs. Showing there’s more to indigenous cultures then just what shows up in out of date westerns. I’m not against the idea of different people writing different stories then their own, however it’s all too easy for the writer to not respect the people they are trying to write for. For me personally it’s just really educate yourself on stories before writing no matter the subject.
Man Reservation dogs is so fucking good, wish we got a few more seasons. Willie Jack the goat
@@meatloaf7939 Yeah it ended and I left like it was missing something. One more season would’ve been super. Willie
Jack is my favourite character. Her and Big are my favourite characters.
I think it'd be helpful if you would explain some examples like, "This episode was written by a white person and this scene shows how they can't write black stories" or "this episode was written by a black person and this scene illustrates how only a black creator could provide this perspective"
Other than showing a couple clips, you never really got into the show itself, just what was going on behind the scenes.
I see that. He diesnt really explain why
i agree, more clear examples/clips should have been shown
I obviously can't speak for him, but this is my own explanation (I'm black and a writer). There's a fine line between culture and a stereotypical view of what constitutes as culture. And also, using racial stereotypes as a vehicle for addressing legitimate problems in a community vs. using racial stereotypes because you find them funny. For example, the exaggerated "ghetto" sounding dialogue in the Good Times reboot is something you would write if you had only limited conversations with black people. It's trying too hard to "sound black" which, as we all know, is a nonsense statement. It's not natural and honestly comes across as derogatory more than anything. What is the point but to convey her as loud and ratchety, which only perpetuates more harmful depictions of black women. Compare that to Miles dialogue with Aaron or his father in the Spiderverse movies, which I feel he should've included as a good example of white writers tackling Black culture/stories. It's grounded, it's realistic, and not trying too hard to make them sound "jive" or "urban" - that's what we want, not the opposite, but it's a tricky thing to accomplish if you don't understand the culture. However, it's obvious that the Spiderverse films did their research and that's why the result is something we can all enjoy.
The clip with the cornbread (from the Seth show) is a harmful example because there's no nuance or punchline. "Hahahahaha Black people inexplicably love cornbread and its too irresistible for her" - that's it. That's the joke. It's derivative because, from what I can see, there's nothing to laugh at beyond a surface level, stereotypical racial joke. The episode seems to be making a "point" about cheap unhealthy foods plaguing low income neighborhoods, but the premise is undercut by the protagonist's inability to control herself around the food: it's portrayed as a _joke_ rather than a realization of a legitimate issue, which the episode sets up but fails to deliver. Ultimately, this shows that Seth is either disinterested or unwilling to go the distance in making a commentary on the problem he addressed - in a self-proclaimed Black show - but would rather roll back on his same old tired racial stereotypes to amuse white audiences.
Quite conversely, the Boondocks has taken similar themes of food and used it to convey humorous _and_ nuanced statements about external (and internal) problems surrounding the black community (for example watch the Itis episode of the Boondocks ruclips.net/video/VU9AZoEvtRU/видео.html)
The thing is, you can either write a show with Black people in it, or you can write a _Black_ show, which connotes conversations of the Black experience and social criticism/concerns.
I think it would be MORE helpful if you trusted black people’s judgement instead of requesting they fit your standard or critique.
@@HarringtonsApocy No one here is disagreeing with Pillboy or saying they don't trust him, they just wanted to understand more specific examples
The dnb background music is sick. Great analysis keep it up brother.
I fuckin love dnb, and Im pretty sure I've heard this track on a mix before. It's so calming
Yesss. It’s a perfect sound to keep you focused too
17:45 is Foregone Destruction from Unreal Tournament '99.
13:28 is: move me ridge racer 4 ost
@@jimmyhirr5773 peggy sampled it on bald right?
Damage to black stories?
Bro, that Good Times remake does damage to Black People.
Thank you for finally speaking about Seth dropping the ball on not just the Cleveland Show, but just failing to write black characters properly.
I mean that episode based off the Travon Martin murder was just downright terrible. & don’t even get me started on Jerome and Cleveland’s “friendship”.
so how come you guys cry when people on media make fun of you but got no issue with woke shows and movies that are very VERY anti white and pro black and black supremacy
@@woopoganntnt7379 There’s not a show or movie that’s pro-Black and anti-white and “black supremacy” doesn’t exist.
That Jerome and Cleveland pissed me off so much. Peter and the guys literally start hanging out with Jerome because he's black, like they actually say it. But Jerome is racist for saying the same thing🤔
@@woopoganntnt7379 Name one. Also “black supremacy” does not exist.
@@coreyf3042 Like??? Can somebody bring some black writers in the room to write, unapologetically I might add, for black characters? This is why we didn’t watch/like The Cleveland Show.
Sad because the Good Times reboot's art direction is actually really interesting and cool! (IMO)
I love the block-y angular style. The backgrounds are also super pretty.
Imo the art style is heavily influenced by Black Dynamite Animation's style. It's a much better show and a better animated one too, you should give it a watch instead of that reboot
I don't mind Cleveland being just a regular black guy in the group. He's just a regular dude. They don't need to "do" anything and I appreciate that. I
While I agree black writers should be writing black stories, I don't agree that white people should be prohibited from writing said stories.
The problem is as you said, Hollywood's push for safer palatable content that makes them diluted and easier to digest for non-black audiences.
But I don't think people of other ethnic backgrounds should be prohibited, they just need to be more well educated and consult the people they are trying to write a story about.
It is definitely preferable and recommended to have people from said backgrounds to write stories about their backgrounds, but I don't think we should prohibit others from giving their perspective on said topics.
agreed.
one of my first major expositions to south american culture was the Disney movie "the three Caballeros". was it accurate? probably not, for the most part. But it did portray South American countries as fun and colorful.
though i was quite surprised when i heard that the disney movies about South America from back then, were actually produced for the south american market, specifically. (correct me if i'm wrong)
No one said you should be prohibited but you definitely should not be the only on that project speaking on the black experience. Having someone from the culture you are writing about is not a requirement but if you want to make something that is truthful to the the subject matter it should be the number one priority to not only have multiple consultants but also co writers from said culture.
I feel like that should be the bare minimum but we don’t even get that most of the time lol
He’s not saying that anybody should be “prohibited.” The problem is that the empathy, self-reflection, collaboration, and research it would take for a writer outside of a culture to be able to represent it well is immense. And let’s face it: most people aren’t going to put in that effort because they don’t have any skin in the game. There are exceptions of course, but they’re far from the rule.
It’s not a prohibition it’s an inability. White people are clearly allowed to try to write black stories, but they CAN’T do it, it’s not possible, and it’s not because us black folk are preventing them, it’s because it just can’t happen. Like i can’t fly, but it’s not cause white people prohibited it😂
White people have done a terrible job of trying to write our stories. Boondocks has shown that the wheels of innovation move faster when originality is included.
So cringe how these shows portray African American characters and their culture 😬
so cringe how you guys complain about this but don’t complain about black writers making white people look terrible and racist
Even more cringe as a black person to have to deal with people on the job, at school, etc. whose ideas about black people are shaped by these grotesque stereotypes. It's just one microaggression after another as they expect you to talk and act like the black folks they see on TV/in movies, but you don't. (I say 'black' because if they're really dumb they don't make any distinctions among African-Americans, Caribbean POC, and Africans, except sometimes they confuse all Caribbean people with Jamaicans)
@@venomousbluefrog who is they? lmao
@@woopoganntnt7379hollywood
Strangely enough I haven't seen a single white person reacting positively to this show...
The new Good Times? I thought it was . . . all right, in absurdist kind of way. The humor was so out there and sometimes so visceral and gross that it reminded me of Metalocalypse (which I liked.) I like cartoons that know they're cartoons. On one hand I can understand how these characters could be upsetting to black viewers. On the other, I didn't like how this video singled out Lisa as problematic. She's an entrepreneur, a good friend, and that speech about the dog was some bonkers shit about a service animal in a storyline that's so out there, no one in the story knows if any of it really happened by the end.
BTW I'm kind of surprised the Fox News pearl clutchers haven't ranted about the depiction of white power structures and the Chicago police in this show. It must REALLY not be on their radar.
that's usually for the wrong reasons though (...racism..)
I mean it looks bad
@@JP-ve7or I think they've been focusing on how hard the pandering has failed. But only a few of them have noticed the show's existence.
@@halcyon.x or cause they didn't notice it (it wasn't marketed towards them) or don't like the pandering the same way black people don't. To me this is the black Oye Primos, black people from many sides of the political spectrum have decided unanimously it sucks, and it is GLORIOUS
I'm latino, and we kind of have the same issue. Like even when something is fairly well done (I thought Coco was well done) it ultimately comes with the idea of trying to take a large chunk of the culture, see if it's monetizable, and if it is, try and steal it (Disney literally tried to trademark Día de los Muertos). I think that people outside of the culture can make something that is valuable to the culture, but it generally has to come from a fairly rare kind of person with the intelligence, artistic ability, empathy and understanding to be able to do it effectively. The example that I always come back to is Martin Wong developing the Puerto Rican day parade paintings. The problem is that the predominantly white men in power who are in charge of doing this either never had, or their position has caused them to eventually lose, the empathy required to do something that was already exceedingly rare to do in the first place.
Exactly, there are just some cultural nuances white folks wont understand because they dont have proximity to them
The problem with this perspective is that there's no singular "black narrative" - each black individual has their own story. It's important to recognize that no group is monolithic; everyone is distinct. Unfortunately, acknowledging this doesn't feed into the divisive narratives that many profit from.
Exactly. Also my viewpoint. there is no singular black narrative. Not every black person has the same story. There may be cases where there are some common themes between some of those stories though
Right I was too confused by that because he kept mentioning the black experience but also saying that the black people involved unabashedly adhere to the stereotype but it's like there's no true black experience. And if we are truly saying black then that means the black experience extends way more than American culture.
@@luckybilly4maybe he was talking about the culture’s perspective specific to black Americans. It’s kinda like if I want to write a Chinese perspective story I would want Chinese writers cause of their background.
Though idk why he thinks that white writers can’t tell the black experience. I mean the original fresh prince did a pretty good job and it was by white writers. I do want more black writers but to say it’s not possible I think is untrue.
i definitely feel like a black person could write for a white audience way better than they could for us tho lol 😅😂
I agree.
That's racist.
@@jamman9569Considering black people have had to consume and relate to media where white people are the default group being portrayed in media, not really.
Shonda Rhimes and Greys anatomy. Like it’s just writing about everyday people who have multilayered lives🤷♀️
@@jamman9569 it's not cause its like white ppl be goin out they way to make us a "certain way" yk ?
_"But when a character's identity is directly connected to their racial and cultural identity -- say Black Panther for example -- you can't change that, or else you change the story."_ Although Black Panther was received more positively by the community it depicts (Black Africans) than The Cleveland Show and the Good Times reboot, it actually suffers from the same problem as those shows, as it was originally created by White writers, and the creators of the recent films don't have cultural connections to any specific African ethnic groups. The films present a mishmash of cultural influences from across Africa, rather than the cultural specificities that you would expect if they were written for any specific African ethnic group or nation, meaning that the films were written for Black westerners more than for any community in Africa. A Black Panther film created by filmmakers from the region that Wakanda is supposed to be in (somewhere in East Africa) would give us a very different depiction of Wakandan culture.
Good point. My brother's girlfriend is Ethiopian and she disliked Black Panther for that reason. She claimed it was an African story written for and by black Americans without much in the way of accuracy or respect for any actual African culture.
A good "black story" is one that doesn't polarize themselves and can transcend race that everyone can enjoy. Ones that treat black people with respect and authenticity, and the characters are complex and don't rely on ignorant stereotypes that the writers think is "funny." I'm white as can be, and some of my favorite shows growing up that just so happen to have an all black or almost all black cast were shows like Martin and the Fresh Prince of Bel Air. I miss those days...
Norman Lear died and immediately they dropped the reboot
I’m not sure why people get offended when people say “Hey you probably can’t write that.” In regards to modern racial experiences. Like if I, a city gal, wrote story centering around growing up in rural America I doubt anyone who actually grew up in rural America would resonate or enjoy the book. Like yes, write diverse, interesting stories including lots of different types characters but there’s no reason to try and write a story centering around a modern, cultural experience you yourself will never be able to fully grasp or understand the nuance of. It’s okay to say, hey my voice isn’t needed in this conversation, but I’m down to listen. Also love the animation, super nice touch.
People cry a river when someone tell them that they cant write a good female/teenage/black/gay characters
Now that I said it out loud I do see where they're coming from but that's just pathetic, man
And they sometime even go "I'll show them" and still write the worst, unfunniest, cringiest, semi-racist characrers
I've always thought stories shouldn't necessarily be limited by the writer's own life. The writers of Scarface weren't Cuban refugees or cartel bosses like the characters, but they managed to tell a fantastic story that still holds up as a classic to this day.
What the writers of Scarface did have was tact and respect for the people that characters like Tony Montana were based on, something that Seth McFarlane lacked with his stories.
I normally skip the first two minutes of a YT video intro cuz it's usually filler BS, but your intro had a point to make. Good job.
You earned a subscription. Everything Ive preached for a few years now. I love seeing minorities have a higher understanding of the society we are surviving in. Thank you💯💯💯💯💯
I'm white but grew up in the hood. Boondocks was always my favorite
Boondocks is great for any audience, it's not made with a specific audience in mind. It features black people but its not just for black people, anyone can enjoy it, and that's what makes it great.
The cartoon or the comic strip?
@@MacenWthis comment is just wrong lmao. This show was definitely made with black people and culture in mind. That’s what makes it so unique.
@@stargirIll The show was inspired by Black culture and made mostly by Black folk but it wasn't made with Black people in mind. That's why there are jokes for both sides in the show. Did we watch the same Boondocks?
I don't know if it was made with a Black audience prioritised (I hope so, lol) but I'm 100 percent white and British and I love it. It's universally watchable. That doesn't mean it's not ade for a Black audience just that it's accessable and funny regardless. I don't know I'm getting the full experience just that I'm getting a GOOD one.
Your soundtrack selection is IMMACULATE and, combined with your stylish visuals with the animated sona and the super slick chapter title cards, makes this video super watchable.
Hell yeah, anybody got a tracklist? All I picked up was Ridge Racer 4 in the beginning 😂
The amount of style and personality your videos have is just incredible
As a white dude, what would you recommend for media that accurately represents black story telling?
Also, your video reminded me of FD Signifier's video about Black Panther and how even with all of its black representation it still simped for the CIA.
We went from strong male figures like Roc trying to protect his family and his neighborhood from drug pushers to shows like the Good Times reboot and record companies encouraging and promoting rappers who brag about taking molly, lean and pills. Society lost its way big time in the last 30 years.
The jungle beats in the background, the style of the animation, well thought out takes that are nuanced but don't hold back- bro is gonna be my new go to vid essayist
Im probably going to get a lack of flack for this. And I apologize for the long comment Idk. But Im a black woman in her late 20s. I feel like thats another representation in itself thats not potrayed as accurately or and as relatable to me. Maybe im coming from a different pov but to me there is either no such thing as the black experience or its more vast than prople are giving it credit to. To me I say in the end the black experience is simply being black and experiencing life. Whatever that means to you. We do not all live the same life.
Some of us are genuinly more like the parodies they critisized. I have encountered a few older black men like clevelend. Granted Ill admit, initially, if one talked to them on the phone, im sure one would make assumptions if they were black or not. But no they were black. We also need to understand the nuance with the black experience if youre specifically saying black, then that extends way more than black American culture. I know there is a difference between European black culture and American black culture and African black culture. Also, there is no set line between a black person who genuinely adheres to stereotypes and one who is actually a caricature/parody of something white people created. For example... if black writers are involved and there are black characters, how can we genuinly differentiate between whats real to them and parody. Black people aren't a monolith. Growing up, I didn't exactly relate to a lot of media. Obviously, the white shows didn't exactly relate, but neither did a lot of black media at the time. In the sense, I was stuck in limbo because I was a black kid raised in a majority white suburb.
So, as an individual, i might have related more to one white character over a black one. Even in today's world, I have yet to find a show with characters that truly spoke to me. I guess the closest right now is maybe Sydeney from the bear or Janine from Abbot Elementary . I actually related a lot to Issa Raes series Awkward black girl, but insecure as a whole didnt speak to me and I watched the whole show. The times I watched Atlanta it seemed more about the black man experience than the woman. But its still a story that needed to be told. And unpopular opinion the American Negro Society wasnt the worst because watching the movie I thought it was a satire/parody of us always catering to white people and in the sense yes that storyline got criticism but it is true that we have to utulize some form of magic to cater to white people.
Hence your point about black adhering to the narratives that white people like (they could still be a part of their black experience for some but some are definitely there just to adhere to the stereotype). I.e Tyler Perry. Also I watched the American negro film as more of making fun of white people as well. Even the so called white liberal ones who attempt to "help" The film still had a bunch of flaws attached to it which is why I wouldnt describe it as a good film but its not the worst and I related to certain aspects. The point it was also trying to make was how a bircial person may be playing the middle. Im not biracial like that so idk but whos say there arent a demographic of biracial people who is like that. For me the characters were one dimensial, movie was too long, not enough background information on the magic or why our sole purpose in magic was to please white people. It did also cater to your point that white people are scared to talk about race.
Again even the so called white liberals one, i still live in the suburbs and there blatant tone deafness in the form of passive helping is definitely loud. Its worse than direct racism imo because they convinced themselves they are so different than the kkk direct racists. And i feel like thats not exactly talked about as much in todays world that needs to. But Ill say I disagree with you a bit on us not stopping white people from telling our stories.
I personally see potential because we are more accountable due to social media and because of that we do have a bit more freedom on releasing content about the black experience. We dont have to solely rely on Hollywood. I believe there is progress that is happening and Ill argue the white liberal is delaying that process as much. But its there.
I definitely agree with you.
Like you said critiquing our own is a whole nother video.
That in itself is mind blowing.
Because as soon as a black person critiques another black person all hell breaks loose.
you can't just drop a great ass soundtrack without giving the song titles 😭😭😭😭😭
I don't have anything against Seth McFarland. His writing style is lazy mainly modern Family Guy. He's not bad he just gets lazy when he stops caring. Cleveland Show was just a bad experiment, not funny just lazy. I don't think Seth MacFarlane really cares about the concept of Good Time, but it's written for Profit. Shows get made for profit and if they're not good they get cancelled. The question is what's more important? Being entertaining or sending a message? You can have a message in your show, but you gotta be entertaining first.
"Babygirl wake up, Pill just posted"
❤
You only have 8K followers?? Nah we changing that. Really strong content you’re making. I feel really heard and scene as a black man working in television.
25:22 “At the end of the day, your impact will always outweigh your intentions,” is so perfectly said. I was just today trying to explain that general idea to my son (much less eloquently).
This video is egregiously unfair to the Cleveland show. As a point, taking a comedy show from Seth MacFarlane this seriously is already contentious. Seth MacFarlane believe it or not does not write every episode of the series he creates. He only wrote a whopping one episode of the show. And the show did have multiple writers of differing races, including Clarence Livingston and Courtney Lilly. And to reiterate, it is a goddamn Cleveland show. People watch that show to laugh.
The idea that a person of X race cannot write a story about a person of Y's races struggles sounds like bs. Chris Claremont of the X-Men wrote countless stories of different characters from different parts of the world and their struggles. Characters like Forge and Mirage have their cultural backgrounds very explicitly tied to their characters. The man is Jewish yet wrote multiple stories about deeply Christian characters like Nightcrawler, Karma, and Wolfsbane. And of course, he wrote characters like Storm and Sunspot, both of whom were very much tied to their cultural background with Storm and her childhood in Kenya and Sunspot with his background of being discriminated for being considered half black. We have had George Perez who is a man writing Wonder Woman whom is a woman, and that run he wrote was met with widespread acclaim especially from women. The point is more so of simply bad writing rather than not being a person of that lived experience.
The problem is most these people don’t know about it at all and just spew black people as the ghetto loud and obnoxious. How many shows have u seen where white dudes act like their from the trailer park compared to the amount of shows where blck people act hood
Clean video with graphic design elements AND Ridge racer background music? Instant sub ngl
You gotta make a patreon or something, we gotta fund you a pop filter! I love seeing this topic get expanded on though good shit man.
Seth McFarland didn't really want to make the Cleveland show. Fox wanted another adult animated comedy but wanted one that targeted a black audience. So seth sort of shrugged and said sure. Seth. Isn't really passionate about the animated show anymore, which is why he doesn't really write them anymore. He's way more invested in his other shows like ted and the Orville. Speaking of the Orville,theres a prominent black character named Claire in it and shes one of the best characters on the show
Here's the thing though; he still *did.* People act as if the guy is some poor tortured artist being held hostage by Fox, but y'all are not this naive, I hope. Macfarlane is just like everyone else in Hollywood; he makes this crap because it still makes *money.* Regardless of how talented he might or might not be otherwise, that's reality.
@@PhoenixRising87 he did it for a contractual reason, its not like he made it because he felt he could tell a black familys story, his boss told him to do a job so he did it
I remember reading that The Cleveland Show was Mike Herny's idea (OG Cleveland voice) and Seth just gave him the keys to the show. Heck, Seth voiced the Bear until the following season.
@@GFBSTPPI Whatever y'all gotta tell yourselves, I guess.
I'm just glad they kept him away from the Flintstones.
Great video, your avatar shaking its head side to side gave me a new phobia
I think there is a space for Black Shows for mostly white audiences, but they do seriously need black writers in the room too, maybe even leading just to not only be authentic, but to have some sort of good nature to not spiral down into a pitfall of racism, white guilt, or (in the case of Cleveland Show) oddness? That said, it'd be nice if those shows also didn't sell themselves as a "Black Show", but I don't know how they really could otherwise.
I say this, because there should be a space for Black Shows for a black audience, where the black audience can laugh at a show or enjoy it, without worrying about what white people think or will come away from it. I think it's idealistic, because you get shows like Boondocks which seemed to be for a black audience, and you see how it's success lead to WB selling it internationally and suddenly you got Japanese or Dutch voice actors using the N-word... but then there are also shows like Black Jesus that also seemed mostly for us that don't have that issue. I don't know, I'm happy with a mix in that just gives more diversity in thought of what is blackness... so other people can stereotype less.. lol.
But seriously, some of the things they have Cleveland say in Family Guy straight up feels like it's what a white guy thinks Black people are like or appreciate. (And I don't mean when it's the joke, like with the "Grape Soda today" joke but almost all the time)
What’s so sad about Good Times reboot is that the animation and art direction is really great, however it’s just based on shock. Anything Seth writes is horrible besides American Dad as you said.
The same can be said about Mike Judge writing for Laotians in King of The Hill.
Yeah it's sad that's all the media rep Laotians get, white showrunners creating a family where 1 voice actor is white and thwe other 2 are Lauren Tom. (much as I love Lauren Tom). It's not even the preferred pronunciation of Laos. idk if it was at the time.
As a white female neurodivergent aspiring screenwriter writing twelve spec screenplays with two of them having different shades of black characters for reasons that will not concern you for the most part (one was at first literally only light skinned black because she doesn’t like the color purple and that was the one shade in Crayola’s Colors Of The World that if they wore purple, they’d look like they had jaundice, but, now, I realize making the characters not be white might actually be helping address the point of the story because it is about how America is too politically divided, how both major political parties have shortcomings, and no one knows how to anymore and thinking putting someone other than a crusty old white dude might put this on more neutral ground.), my issue and someone said this earlier but it bares repeating: your race is only part of your identity. It should not be your ENTIRE identity.
The thing is you never see much fluctuations in between characters in these shows and it is partly Hollywood’s fault. You never see a black woman with either a flat chest or Hank Hill’s butt unless it’s someone under 12 who’s a protester. You almost never see a black LGBTQ+ character as a main character (not black shows, but, shoutout to Brooklyn 99 and Bob’s Burgers on that front.). You never see a black person who is into punk, heavy metal, hard rock, country, or any genre that isn’t hip hop, rap, soul, disco or some version of pop/top 100s. You don’t know much about their likes and dislikes It’s rare to see a black teenager do things other than playing basketball as an extracurricular or something INSANELY academic. You always see parents have zero respect for the children and you never see a kid with a strained relationship with their mother. You never even see a black family that is Muslim or atheist. You never see black people with dietary restrictions. And, marrying a white man/woman is always treated like it’s possession of child pornography.
HOWEVER, the intelligent of you have probably met a black mother who could NEVER bring herself to lay a finger on her child, even if they struck first. Or you know someone who is black and gay. Or, you know someone who is one of the few black Trump Supporters. Or, even someone who is black and atheist!
The two problems with Hollywood is: 1.)Insanely Formulaic Writing That Follows Established Patterns And Only focusing on getting an audience rather than retaining an audience.
2.)It’s Write What You Know when the phrase should really be Know What You Write
You deserve more views tbh, good topics you continue to bring up
Black panther was created by the Jewish writers/Artist Jack Kirby and Stan Lee to help address the serious issue of a lack of mainstream black characters at the time. Just wanted to put that out there.
I’m aware.
Can I get a list of all the background music for this video? I had to rewatch the video again cuz I found myself just vibing. However you had a very important take on this and I had to listen again.
Agreed, I'm zoning out listening on headphones lol
As an aspiring director I feel this. Recently ive started my short film journey just trying tell stories from our perspective.( And I fw the drum n bass background music)
People need to stop trashing respectability politics because it has a very significant usage. When a group conducts themselves respectfully and are mistreated it makes it clear they are not the root of the problem and neutralizes negative propaganda directed at them. Respectability politics won't solve the problems people face but it removes certain barriers.
That is true. Europeans did not invent respectability. Every _functional_ culture has rules of respectability. Innuit in the Arctic have rules of respectability. So do Polynesians in the Pacific, Indians in India, and Japanese in Japan. You go to a village in Ghana and act a fool...someone's going to tell you, "We don't do that here." Even if the rules differ, it's always possible to see that a culture has its own rules. Rejecting _all_ rules of respectability in recent decades is why American black culture has been swiftly failing. Those "black stories for white people" are of people with no sense of any rules of respectability.
@@rdkirk3834 Most Black Americans are not "rejecting all rules of respectability." People just like the Black Americans who do, and continue to put them in the limelight. In fact, Black America has been very vocal about this. This is just another version of "well, all stereotypes have some truth to it," even though you can look up information disproving those very sterotypes.🙄
@@matxalenc8410 The rejection by black people of "respectability" is even being taught in college black studies today. This video even trashes respectability. It's not politics, it's having standards of behavior. "Cain nobody tell me nothing" is the current standard in the black culture...those of us who maintain standards of behavior are criticized for "acting white," as though having standards was innately a white characteristic.
The problem with respectability politics is that it doesn't save people. You can be as polite and well-dressed, educated and well-spoken, etc. and you're still living under white supremacy, and still subject to racism in various forms.
Respectability is nice on an individual level. If you code switch and get those accomplishments, people are more likely to respect you on an individual level. But for a whole community it just leads to tone policing and in fighting. Trans people have been going through this discussion as a community as well.
There are some vehement trans creators who think that non-binary trans people should be eradicated because they make the rest of the trans community look more confusing and entitled. This is where the in-fighting and identity policing lies.
The reality is that your average lawmaker or bigot doesn’t care about how neatly you fit into the box of your desired gender role-they gonna believe whatever stereotype they want about you because their belief doesn’t come from rational examples, but due to systemic prejudice. You can’t out-logic a belief that they didn’t use logic to create. Caitlyn Jenner is an out and about successful trans woman, and she gets clowned on because they don’t care.
And even if your average transphobe maybe will change his mind if you talk to him with your respectable image, he’ll still attack your non-binary comrades because “you’re one of the good ones” and the non-binary ones are not “respectable” enough.
On a fundamental level, I do agree people should strive to become respectable because it does open doors for you, but not only is what’s respectable very exclusionary (ie non-binary people can’t be “respectable”), but you can’t really expect to enforce this on a larger scale. And if you can’t organize this on a larger scale, then the change will remain individual.
Also “neutralizes propaganda” That’s only if the truth gets out there. But as we’ve seen with Israel and Gaza, no matter how innocent, it’s harder to disprove evil propaganda than to spread it. Hell, Seth McFarlane can make these disrespectful/unrespectable shows about black people, and he’s not even black. Who is disproving his show to the audience who watches it?
seth doesnt write on family guy anymore just voices btw gang keep it up
This channel is amazing, I’m not gonna lie, it’s something about the style of the video that’s really engaging to watch. Maybe I’m just yapping but this channel is definitely gonna be big by the end of the year, no question
Videos
def yapping dudes a racist who is obsessed with race just like you are
I was actually a fan of Cleveland show I understand the discrepancy with it but I think it was cool to see Cleveland with his own show
Yeah it wasnt super bad
😂😅😂 Right I felt weird when Snoop dog said what he said. Because granted I do understand what he's saying about it. But also as a character who was more so in the background I liked that he wasn't. And imo I would agree it isn't the best Seth MacFarlane shows. But overall as it's own content it wasn't bad and I liked the fact that black actors voiced the characters so I was supporting them as well.
This video is good but I don't understand why you kept saying Seth Macfarlane was the showrunner for the Good Times reboot. He's just an executive producer on it, he didn't even direct or write an episode of it.
Because he is disingenuous. Think about what does "white audience" really means. These shows are universally panned by both whites and blacks. I'm asain and the worst racism against us is privileged blacks. This guy is a racist with no accountability
The introduction of your Pillboy persona is a little confusing because it appears the moment you talk about "celebrating black on-screen representation", so I just assumed you were showing some clips from a professional cartoon with black cartoon characters.
Also, I really like that you chose gray tones to do brown skin, complementary to how white characters being drawn paper-white.
Simplified character designs like that using a single hue, rather than a range of colors for highlights and shadows (see steven universe for example), to represent skin are kinda off-putting to me when the color of choice tries to be a natural skin color, and for some reason it happens more often with brown characters than white ones (beige stick figures are kinda rare to see), so gray is a really good choice.
the only good thing about the new good times is the animation. regardless of the writing I'm still kinda happy that adult animation is slowly freeing itself from copying family guy
Different direction than what I thought from the title, but really nice work! Love the animation inserts!
As a white guy from the suburbs of the PNW, I’ve been looking to deconstruct or analyze my exposure to black media as a kid. I grew up watching “the Proud Family,” “Static Shock,” and “My Wife and Kids” on TV, and “You Got Served” was a surprisingly formative movie for me. Growing up Pentecostal, it was also a strange trip rediscovering and becoming nostalgic over Gospel artists like Fred Hammond and Israel Houghton as an adult.
Engaging with black *communities* wasn’t really an option for me as a child, and something I’m trying to do better with as a 20-something adult, but I still wonder the impact that media and cultural exposure had on me as a kid. And that takes a lot of IMDB research to look into the creators, the writers, and response from the black community to gauge, but I’m nothing if not a learner!
As far as Seth McFarland’s shows, never watched them! But glad you get to tackle them in this video.
Oh man, I love movies & shows analysis & reviews, especially when it is being done by black folks. It gets really redundant when the perspective being pushed are through white folks' lenses mostly ( algorithm wise), it was a struggle to find black content creators making anime reviews cause they are hardly pushed....blessed to be on this side of RUclips :)
Are you changing the frame rate of the Good Times clips to skirt copyright, or is it just that terrible? It looks like a Newgrounds flash game
Copyright
Another banger video dude. This is one we definitely needed. You’re making some good shit👏🏿🔥
Thank you for this video and breaking things down. Would love to see you and ToonrificTariq collab on a video together.
I just hate how Tyler Perry mis reps so much of the black community. It irritates me to watch how off the mark he is
Dude, amazing video. It actually made me think about how as a FOB who moved to the West from SE Asia at 14 yrs old it's crazy that the exact situation you're talking about happened in 'Fresh Off the Boat' sitcom for us Asian Americans. The people they hired to write it are not even East / Southeast Asian and the final say when it came to scripts / directing were ultimately by white people (Hollywood Jewish Elites) and whitewashed Asians who are trying to suck up to them.
The sitcom was just "we're white people but we use chopsticks and eat rice! so exotic and weird right? And OMG Boba is so good and we speak CHINESE so quirky!" with zero consideration for what it actually means to be an Asian immigrant. It's basically a continuation of what people like Seth Macfarlane and Norman Lear do with Black TV shows, they literally can't fathom that things can be THAT different and don't even make an effort to listen or figure it out from people actually from those communities. They never learn.
I dont think the Cleveland show is bad because it was made by a white guy, I think it's bad because it's bad lol. When it comes to white people writing black stories, I think it's most certainly possible and plausible. Django unchained is a brutal honest look at slavery and its horrible history, and it portrays its topic and django as a character very well. I do agree that culture is lost in translation with Seth McFarlane tho
Then you dont disagree, he never said it was bad because seth is white
Bruhhhh, no creators in Hollywood have full control over their art. This isn’t unique to the black community.
Also, don't forget that ALOT of new media like these shows are aimed exclusively at the younger audience. That is why the life lesson shows most GenX and Millennials grew up with are basically gone for quick shock value.
And im gonna disagree. It is okay to bully. You don't get people like Seth (when he isn't writing black stories he really aint that bad), or even worse offenders of just making a quick buck off black trauma because we dont bully. Shame and negative emotions are a big influence, and from a creative standpoint, you can see the creative bankruptcy of giving anyone the pass just because.
Your production style is so cool! The music & animations are great I hope to see more form you.
As a fan of classic Family Guy and the Ted TV show, even I think The Cleveland Show shouldn’t have happened.
You had 8.9k when I clicked on this and now have 9.01k. Good video. I'll make it 9.02k
I appreciate your time to make this. Im very aware of this reboot and dodged it. ❤
I didn't have to do a damn thing since Netflix's algorithm just recommended new animes on my feed, lol.
Honestly I feel the Cleveland show was just an attempt to make black family guy. Which was attempted poorly I believe in the episode Cleveland returns one character even says “who did you make it for? Some black guy who’s never met another black guy?”
"The good news is that we're making more episodes, the bad new is that you won't be in them" is such an asshole way to tell someone they're fired
Neither does steph curry... I think we steadily skip.over that.. the whole pass that was given , was due to thinking Steph would understand anything about blackness since he was funding the project.. instead he has more in common with his mother..
Seth "Punching down on POCs and vulnerable outgroups is funny" McFarlane
I walked in to my partner watching the show and quietly kept my thoughts to myself. it was the episode of the wife fixing the hood ony having to undo the work to appease the government and man it just felt like...such a spit in the face
Also i really couldnt get jiggy with the art design of the show but maybe thats just me
I hear you, I feel you, problem is that Hollywood has the platform and the money. All the "black" media we consume isn't even made without the same people you're complaining about.
Eh the intro saying "racist factory reset" has some extreme racism towards white people undertones that I cant seem to shake. It's like you're saying that all white people by default must learn how to not be racist and are racist by factory default. I get it, it could be shuffled off as a joke but damn does it not have the most gross undertone for white racism I have heard in a video trying to be about equality in awhile. I hope I'm reading this wrong and you're a great guy, but damn man.