Hands Down The Best Vocoder - With Tutorial (Bon Iver, Imogene Heap, Francis, Kanye)
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- Опубликовано: 29 ноя 2022
- A lot of you guys have been asking for this. Here's a quick tutorial on how I use my favorite vocoder!
Please feel free to comment any questions or feedback below as I read all the comments.
Cheers!
Top tip to do it live - in Logic, you load Harmony engine as a "Midi Controllable Effect". In Harmony Engine, you then set the sidechain input as the actual input number that the live microphone is plugged into (i.e. Input 1). Enable record on the harmony engine channel - play midi keys and sing and you have a latency free, live setup. Enjoy : )
Yep yep. There's also the legendary eventide harmonizer, and a few other pedals that could be used on stage with zero latency.
ruclips.net/user/shortsgA4g0Yv_-hE
trying to figure out how do you set as a midi controlable effect ?
Can I use sounds in other plugins to run through harmony ? I wanna midi control it I want to choose the sound affecting the vocal. Is that possible?
@@gustomadeit27 You can run other sounds through harmony engine, you just select them as the sidechain. Though harmony engine will only affect what you put through it, so if you’re not putting vocals, no vocals will be affected. You might be thinking of a vocoder where you can modulate synths of your choosing with vocals. Harmony engine is just a harmoniser.
is there a reason to use antares over the stock vocoder?
Hide and Seek hit me SO hard the first time I heard it. Walking on a dark beach under the moonlight, high as a 🪁
Sheesh that sounds epic. Yeah that song is timeless and in a league of it's own.
So I was expecting a relatively similar tone/quality to bon iver when I opened this video, but I wasn't expecting THAT close of a result. Gotta give it to my man.This sounds incredibly close to the original.
Thank you! Yeah i remember when I first figured it out i was like "woah....this is actually pretty close!" haha
@@CompleteProducer definitely! Which says something because bon iver is such a talented individual. I wonder if you could create "woods" using the same technique or not. Either way I'm definitely interested in the way you did this, so thanks again for the tip
@@devinaaro Having a brain fart. What was the Saxophone track? Did they use this same thing?
@@devinaarohe supposedly had some input into some of Antares’ work on this plugin. So it makes sense that some would sound like him.
I found this...
Of all the crazy effects on 22, A Million, perhaps the most prominent is a device created by and named after engineer Chris Messina. There have been reports that The Messina is based on the Prismizer, which is software designed by Francis Starlite (of Francis & The Lights). However, according to Justin Vernon and Messina, the Prismizer was only an inspiration and does not use the same technology.
“When Francis Starlite was staying at my house for a year,” recalled Vernon, “I saw him take a trumpet line and make it sound like a bunch of them. I was like: ‘That is amazing, that is really cool.’ So when I talked with Chris Messina, my confidant in this entire recording process, about setting up new toys and finding new zones and not trying to get stuck in any technological toilet bowl, I was like, ‘How can you do that live?’ One of the reasons why you can’t do that is because CPUs don’t really have that capacity to do it as it is happening. So Chris figured that out, and got all the gear to make that work, and I said: ‘We are calling this the Messina.’ We used it on a lot of stuff, and we actually use it a lot live as well now.”
Messina elaborates on how he devised the Messina. “Inspired by what Francis did, Justin and I got together and we tried every single vocoder that was listed, but they all sounded like a vocoder, which was not exactly what we wanted. Instead we wanted to be able to keep the character of whatever input signal we used, whether a voice or a saxophone. So instead we developed this thing which basically is a glorified vocoder. The input signal goes into Ableton Live where it is treated by two Auto-Tune plug-ins. The first just tunes the vocal, in the way Justin has always done it, and the second plug-in creates just a single note, the tonic of the key of the phrase that is sung or played, and that then is sent to an Eventide H8000, which is set to a MIDI harmony program.
“Justin can play the white keys of a MIDI keyboard at the same time, and the H8000 receives the Auto-Tune tonic input, sometimes a dry input, and the input of the MIDI keyboard, and the H8000 generates up to four notes based on what’s played. It involves a degree of randomisation, so you don’t know exactly what you’re going to get. We’d then use a combination of the dry signal, tuned signal, tonic signal and the harmony created by the H8000 to make the ‘Messina’ sound. A lot of the distortion on the album comes from this, because the H8000 program naturally creates a lot of artifacts. When you’re switching keys on the MIDI keyboard it automatically creates this kind of clicking noises as it’s changing whatever harmonies it’s creating. We removed some of those clicking noises, but as also left many in, because we liked them. But a lot of the distortion is Justin and the Messina, with the H8000 doing what it does to the signal. You can hear Justin on his own with the Messina in ‘715’. That song is mostly just one take, though we did do a few additional takes, hitting the 8000 differently each time, cranking up the output to hit it harder. The way the 8000 reacts to different input signals can be pretty cool.”
Whaaaaaaaat this is so cool. I’m going to dive in with some friends and try to recreate this.
Hey man can you link us to the article which found this text?
I appreciate all u do for us rising musicians, thanks for existing bro.
i love to hear that, thanks!
Ethan!! Wow, I've been trying to duplicate this sound for quite a while. Genius brother, you are amazing! Thank you, you just skyrocketed me into the future. Bless you brother
thank you Scott, happy to help!
Ethan, you are an expert teacher, communicator, and entertainer. Your video is excellent and most enjoyable, and I learned a lot.
you are a legend Ethan, thank you so much for this tutorial
thank you! happy to help (:
BRO THAT BEGINNING GAVE ME CHILLSSSSs
The beginning is soo beautiful!
My favorite Vocoder is Razor by NI. You have all the power of Razor's oscillator section and it's excellent reverbs. The vocoder is a filter "type" but since razor has 2 filter you are still left with a filter as well. It's extremely digital and pure - not an analog simulation if that's what you are going for. But that purity gives gorgeous harmonics and intelligibility.
Halfway through a hyperpop album and realised i had harmony engine from a couple years ago. This video has unlocked so much for me, youre the best, great rendition too
oh woahhh this effect would be awesome with hyperpop
@@CompleteProducer I know dude, can’t tell you how excited I am by it, been using melodyne and it doesn’t mechanise the vocal enough, ends up all sounding the same but using H.E at varying amounts track to track is gonna make the entire thing, honestly really appreciate the tutorial ✌️
Waves Tune Real Time is currently 79% off if you’re looking to upgrade your autotune! Going for $41.99 opposed to the usual $200. Highly recommend picking it up if it’s in your budget.
Awesome. No nonsense tutorial and video, great. Thanks!!
I'm inspired by the video and impressed by the video editing. I can tell you really care. Can't wait to see where this channel goes! Thanks Ethan!
thank you! I can't wait to see where it goes too
Thank-you very much! I was fiddling with Antares' "Articulator," thinking that was a cool vocoder sound, but THIS is definitely more like it!
you are simply the best content creator for people creating and produicng music. your videos help me so much i think if ill have future in this industry its driectly because of you
wow thanks so much!
🍀🍀🍀A very well done tutorial, respect! 🍻 Very well explained!
So far I had at least six different vocoder VST's in the computer and at least heard a few more vocoders in tutorials, as hardware or plugins. But what convinced me the most today is the totally new version of ZYNAPTIC's Orange IV VST vocoder (I have the demo-Version in my computer). The speech intelligibility of the synthesized signal is absolutely top class. _That_ is vocoder to me. 🏆 The CPU load is unfortunately quite high, but in my experience you would still be able to cope well with the appropriate recording management.
All of your videos are great and love them. Thank you master.
thank you!
Well if you want exactly how it’s routed that came straight from Messina, and to try it yourself, here you go. He’s using ableton live. He has 2 auto tune. 1 is on his main vocal that he does with ALL his songs live (lightly) then he has a second auto tune that’s literally only sending the root note to the harmonized chain. Since it’s in the key of C#, it would be Ab. Then he has the eventide rack that already gives him real time pitch shift/stretched harmonies. It’s something that’s really fun to play around with.
I love this!! So fire🔥
thank you!
MY GOD, AN INTRO NOT WORTH SKIPPING
It may have just lost it's crown Hello Zynaptiq Orange Vocoder. You are a thing of wonder 😻
amazing video!
just the vid i needed THANK YOU
happy to help (:
*Zynaptiq Orange Vocoder* is the best sounding vocoder plugin (the original and the more recent reissue) I've ever heard, but this one is a close second IMO!
Emotional wonders!
Hey Ethan, I would love to see the overal proces of the John balaya - dream vocal comp. I'd assume that you've used waves tune probably for the tuning of the vocal. Maybe some melodyne to fine tune certain notes maybe but the extra harmonies and recording everything is something I'd like to see. Feel free to let me know how you did it or make a new tutorial for it 🙂
Is it possible to do this in Logic Pro X as well? I followed the steps but I got stuck on routing the MIDI to the Vocoder track. It didn't see a way to do that with Logic's channel strip. Any help out there would be super appreciated.
Thank you 🙏 by now you probably learned about waves harmony to perform live cheers 🍻
Just discovered your channel, and very much enjoyed this video. Also happened to see that your next one is about Logic. I’ve been using MainStage with the built in vocoder (that comes with Logic) for real time and it’s basically latency free so far.
yeah ableton vocoder is pretty latency free too, that is....until you start stacking on a bunch of third party plugins to process things haha
Just getting into using vocoders and this was one of the first videos that came up and it's great, thank you!
One thing... you said it's hard to recreate "live", but at the beginning, you're singing "live" with it... are you just singing over a pre made song then?
Hah that's too funny. That's the song that made me search out a how to video. Happened to be the first video I clicked. Cheers
I read somewhere that the second track used to generate the harmonies was also hard tuned to one note before it hits the harmony machine, that’s how sone of the weirder artefacts were created on the track.
Great video! Defo gonna give this a go!
Good stuff bro
Thanks so much! Would this work in GarageBand?
Hey thanks for the great tutorial. I can get audio out of harmony engine. I routed the midi to harmony engine and then pressed omni like you did. However, once I turn the volume down I get no audio from the other 4 channels. Any thoughts on how I can fix this?
plenty of outboard gear can replicate that effect real-time for live; TC Helicon has gear just for that. Great video
How do I play in realtime?! im finding this impossible - like playing keys while singing and it harmonises the notes that I play. ( like you were doing in the start of the vide )
Thanks!
how would you do this in Logic Pro?
Currently working on building my own harmonizer in patcher. It's gonna be three octaves (Midi is C4-B6, but the actual pitch adjusts based on what octave the input vocal is), as many notes as you want. gonna be a good bit of work but i'm excited to see how it turns out, sounds pretty good rn with one octave.
I would be interested in seeing a video demonstration or maybe even test it myself when u finish it
Can you show us the progress please?
@@MischieviousJirachiyeah would be really interesting
This is awesome! It sounds great. I want to figure out how to do this live.
SAME
How do you create the midi track off of a 2 track instrumental you’ve loaded into your daw
THANK YOU
BRO YOU A GIFT FROM GOD
Hermano el es un regalo de Dios
Okay so ive done vocoding live in my high school back in 2018 - 2019 i was able to do it without latency is by switching the buffer length from 2048 to 256 i did this using fl studio for a small portion of a song if you will like an example ill be happy to send one
Does this work in logic?
hi, how did you create the midi of the vocal? did you use a vst?
anyone know how to do this on fl?
Does this come with the subscription ?
how di you use this in fl studio
where are u getting the midi from?that’s a vocal midi or you played it on keys ?
Is there an analog alternative for people without a computer and software?
I think Bon Iver and James Blake also used it in 2011 in Fall Creek Boys Choir, I used to listen to that song a lot. James does it a lot too.
yeah i think you're right!
Thanks
My harmony engine would crash Ableton when I used my MacBook Pro and now that I use a Mac Studio there is no difference, it still crashes. Same goes for EFX using AU or VST3
@4:26 jacob collier uses hardware for live chorus performance. I read about it in a thesis about live music. I didnt remember which hardware exactly, though sorry. I personally use a Roland VT-4 which is quite good (can be used with midi input :) I absolutely hate latency and i wish there will be a technological Revolution someday, enabling FX VSTs to have 0 latency. OVOX (WAVES) and Manipulator are also awesome voice plugins.
Let me change the way you think about latency forever.
Sound travels ~1ft per ms in the air. So, having 6ms of latency would be about equivalent to playing a guitar while standing 6 feet away from the amp.
Would that make or break your ability to play guitar? Absolutely not! In fact, that’s probably the *minimim* distance most guitarists are standing from their amps during any given live performance.
Of course, there’s still an upper limit. You don’t want to have 40ms of latency, but you also wouldn’t wanna play guitar 40ft from your amp either. If you contextualize it like this, it’s way easier to just not worry about.
Could you upload the bon iver creeks midi file for the vocal tracking?
Thank you
what´s the name of the song from bon iver?
I love this effect bon iver is my favorite artist I have this plugin , I am an engineer artist and producer but I’m not good with midi . Would someone be able to help me with the midi part ?
Can somebody help me please? when I connect the Midi to the Vocoder I can`t click on 1. Harmony engine. It`s just grey and it says "track in" where can I change that? Great Video so far :)
THANKS
how can i do this on fl studio
Does waves harmony have this capability? Not sure the diff between those two plugins.
as far as i know you can input midi into waves harmony and get a similar effect, so i would try it out and see if it's enough for you. in terms of getting the exact effect from 715 Creeks - Bon Iver I haven't found anything close to as good as Harmony Engine.
the midi output for mine worked at one point now when I click the “master” button to the audio track then that little tab under that… it should you select harmony engine but it only says “track input”
Any ideas?
bumping this
This video slaps...
thank you Temur Tim :P
I think Gigperformer can be a solution for the latency issue performing with it live
Great video, any tips on how I can do this without any experience knowing chords? Thanks
it's going to be tough to do this without knowing how to play chords. I would spend a couple days learning some basic music theory - it will go a long way!
Thanks thanks, damn I really wish i can get this working. What version of Ableton/Computer are you using? I can't get the Harmony Engine to show up as a target of my Midi track, It's missing =| I'm on a M1, Ableton 11
hey! just noticed your comment. Do you have the harmonizer on an audio track? If so, from the MIDI track, you should be able to select that audio track as its output. Then, right under that output tab on the MIDI track there should be another one that goes into the plugins you might have in your audio track. There you should be able to select the harmonizer, providing its on that audio track
How do your harmonies sustain so well? I keep getting some gaps from changing keys?
Are you using a sustain pedal?
Fantasic video. Are you playing everything live in the opening clip?
i am, yes! i will say though, i moved the vocoder sound over a little bit in post because there was some latency, which i discussed at the end of the video.
I believe they do this song live by using a custom invented machine called the "Messinator" (invented by Justin's friend Chris Messina) and it adds the effect in real time with no latency
Thank you . Been trying to use the OVOX this seems better . Is it?
I havent tried OVOX so I don't know. Harmony Engine is definitely my favorite for this vocoder effect though
Hey Man, I done a cover of Creeks a long time ago, I recorded it live so I figured out how to use it live in Realtime without any latency ( On a 2014 Mac mini ) if you want any tips i'm happy to help!
Yoo Sam, how do you go about using it live without latency!? :))
Can you share it please?
can u use w/o piano midi or can you use w maschine chord mode?
im not sure!
Do you need an external midi for this? Or is it all included in the VST?
it's all included in the VST! you just need a midi track in your project
Just a quick correction, but this is actually a harmonizer and not a vocoder. It can be done live because their are hardware versions of the harmonizer device (in fact - it originated as hardware, all the way back in 1975!) Final fun fact, Melodyne's amazing audio engine is based on the same pitch-shfting algorithm harmonizers use (which is very different from AutoTune).
Whereas AutoTune compresses or stretches the entire waveform, the harmonizer algorithm applies an offset to specially-calculated 3rd order harmonics of the input signal's fundamental frequency. This has the effect of changing the pitch of a voice, but leaving timbre intact, allowing the vocal signal to retain its natural tone rather than Chipmunking or Darth Vadering the vocal as other pitch correction softwares do
Thx a bunch brother, I just bought it. Question: why put auto tune on it though?
that's just what i heard Justin Vernon (Bon Iver) doing on that song Creeks!
Hi Ethan. Absolute great you describe this video to imitate the Bon Iver effect. But I have big problems to make it work in Reason 12. I have made vocal track and dublicate it. Then I put the Antares Vocal Hamonizer (4.3.0)on it as an effect. Then I can't just make an MIDI/software track as you do in your DAW. I can't make a clean MIDI track, but have to choose track with a specific plugin ( For ex. Spire), thats can create a MIDI track (so here I can make some MIDI chords), but here my experiment stop. Mayby it has something to about some Sidechain in Reaon 12 setup? I have just bought the Antares Vocal Hamonizer on sale, so will be gratefull to make it work like you descibe 🙂
yeah i definitely don't know how to work it in reason! sorry i can't be of more help
Eventide rackmount is how he gets around latency in short.
So if I need to make a song that’s in c minor which minor one am I supposed to click on real tune ?
if your song is in C minor, then set real tune to C minor! lol
or Eb major will work as well for C minor because C minor is the relative minor for Eb major.
@@CompleteProducer but there’s like natural minor there’s different shit
What kind of sound were you using for the carrier / midi going into harmony engine?
thank U
How often does Antares go on sale?
They're having a Black Friday sale right now! This plug-in is half off right now
OMG
Hi, please tell me where you bought it for $125..... I'm seeing 279 Euros. Would appreciate any info, Thx.
I'm seeing that too :( looks like they changed their price. I'm sorry if I mislead you
Thx for your reply, I don't feel misled, the company can change their price if they wish, it's a bit more than i want to pay. What do you think of Xils vocoders? @@CompleteProducer
The live instrument is probably one of the TC Helion pedals. I think those have or had antares tech inside.
Imogen Heap used one of those.
He “hard auto tuned it” with Waves, but harmony engine has AT built in!
Waves Harmony has been released since and I think it sounds better, AND its much less expensive than Antares. Like someone else mentioned, its a harmonizer, not a vocoder.
Completely agree. I tried both and was actually quite surprised that the Waves one sounds at least as good. And I got it for like 30 bucks, which then is amazing value!
Man at $300, that’s wild. Any other alternatives you know about?
Waves Harmony is just $40 :)
haha "this plugin is freakin siiiiiiiiick"
Is there a way to get this effect on Logic? I have harmony engine but not sure how to rout the MiDi track to the Harm track
im not sure how to route in logic at the moment sorry!
@@CompleteProducer For anyone wondering, on logic Pro you open software instrument track and choose AU MiDI controlled units and harmony engine will be one. Then sidechain the Harm Eng to the vocal track you wish to use for your vocoder effect
Can you this live? With you singin and playing the keys like a real piano?
i think so! if you have fast computer you can do it with very little latency, otherwise there's some way to do it with outboard gear...but i don't know much about that haha
plot twist: Live they are using pre-recorded tracks
That's called a harmonizer not a vocoder.
Damn thank you Jake Paul from the future.
😂
WTF the start is a near perfect recreation
It’s not a vocoder 🙂
Then enters Polyphia…
The autotune is embarrassing.