I was thinking the same thing. I think it’s just spamming MSU acolytes and jackal jail. Do absolutely no damage but try and score high for 5 turns with expendable chaff and move blocking. It’s a very boring way to play though.
@@DeathInTheSnowWe space marines should hope for the balance of the universe to fall into the hands of the eldar again, things were so good when they were at 70% win rate ruling the galaxy unhindered🧝🤳 oh oops
deathwatch being one of the worst managed factions by GW then being rolled into a new faction that became the new worst managed faction by GW is the most depressing thing
@@Raptor14v Yeah my 3k points of DW just sit in a case collecting dust. Of course with how GW has been treating them the last few years made me quit the game. Kinda hard to justify playing after spending over a thousand dollars on an army to just to have GW say, "naw they don't exist anymore" after constant nerfs while they ignored nerfing armies with winrates more than double of DW.
Deathwatch should have never been an army. They're such a cringy OC fanfic chapter who's powers are having everyone else's powers. Marines are already overrepresented and have too much variety, why do we need space marines with every single weapon profile in the entire game on one data sheet. Good riddance to bad trash I hope they outright delete the faction
I stopped collecting and playing because of this. I hope the rules this December get me back into it. If not then I will just sell my collections. GW make a game about an army they deleted.. well played
Salamanders player here - We have been punished so hard because of divergent chapters’ abusing our codex detachments. My original 10th edition army has gone up 240 points. :( Yes, I’m bitching. Lol. Flame storm aggressors should not be compared to bolt storm aggressors using fire discipline. We have no equivalent.
Well, we did have an equivalent. It was in our themed detachment, which was much less flexible than Gladius. Which got nerfed because of Black Templars. But specifically, it was our dev wounds strat. Which got nerfed because of GW’s wider change to Rites of Battle. Our dev wound strat was especially potent with Flamestorm Aggressors, due to their innate wound reroll. Which got nerfed because of the sins of Boltstorm Aggressors. It’s why I switched my homebrew chapter to using Space Wolves rules. I’m tired of GW consistently fucking over non-blue compliant chapters.
Honestly, this sounds like a completely self inflicted problem. You’re basically using 1/6th of the codex and relying on flamethrowers. If you want to play fully thematic Salamanders then you can. But don’t expect to be doing amazing with them. You can’t blame this on the supplements. The best of them is just barely above 50%, and half are down at the bottom as well. They were never dominating the meta at any point either. Even at the start of 10th Firestorm wasn’t anything to write home about. Blame GW for their horrible SM balance this edition.
That’s completely false. All of the divergent chapters have, at some point this edition, been one of the top winrate armies. Black Templars were the earliest, abusing the meltas they duct-taped to their tanks in Ironstorm and Gladius, and the Redeemer with a bunch of sword brethren and crusaders in Firestorm. That’s why the Redeemer got hit so hard. Space Wolves, specifically Wolf Jail, dominated for their fair share of time as well. Same with Dark Angels and Gladius, but they also had a stint earlier where they would abuse Ironstorm and their Ravenwing unit that gave stealth in an aura. Blood Angels have been doing well since their codex, but even before that after GW buffed their index detachment they were doing very well. We absolutely can blame this on the divergent chapters. All of them have been extremely strong at some point this edition, meanwhile I can count the amount of wins ALL of the non-Ultramarines chapters have on two hands. Maybe even one.
The 49% and 51% armies probably should've been bundled into mid tier. Pretty nice to see so many armies at the centre, hopefully the next dataslate helps out the stragglers.
Thing is if you use these numbers as reference you would be bufffing things like vanguard marines, grey knights, black templars. They do not need buffs, theyre strong enough!
They are a problem child like 9th ed Admech, both are very intricate armies with a massive skill ceiling. Casual or even low end competitive players find the army to be fine while the giganerds know every little trick and FaQ ruling to eek out wins. It doesn't help that because GSC is a very intricate army it's player pool is small making QA testing changer much harder.
Thousand Sons being at a cool 50% I think is deceptive, because they have basically *one* viable army list. Tabletop Tactics did a "game accurate" SM2-themed battle report with no Magnus and only three total character models, and the TSons got tabled on turn 3 without scoring a single victory point. The army can clearly still compete but it's extremely brittle. There's virtually no flexibility in list-building and most TSons competitive lists look pretty much identical.
World Eaters are in the same boat. Really wish GW would get off their lazy backsides and add some actual options to our rosters for once... we need more than 3-4 actual datasheets, instead of just shoving in more and more AoS crap and calling it a "model release"
I think that's true for a lot of armies. There's a distinct lack of _internal_ balance within each codex, meaning you frequently see the same detachments and units crop up throughout the edition. I think the rules are so simple and the profiles so limited in their design that you end up with very swingy results whenever something gets adjusted. There isn't enough granularity. It's like a ratchet with 4 teeth - you can only click between very large settings. For example, if wargear was still costed separately, you could adjust each point on that either in addition or instead of the model itself. Same goes for unit rules; you could have a cost scale for different loadouts. Right now though, things are simple to a flaw. There's little dexterity, or dare I say, fun, in this edition.
@@DeathInTheSnow Making wargear free was the worst decision they made in 10th, and the bar is pretty high on that for me since they also deleted my precious Psychic phase and turned Ahriman's Psychic attack power into a water gun. The only way to make that balanced is to make all possible wargear combinations equivalent in power, which is not only dumb, it often just doesn't work. Lots of squads which people had previously modeled to have a balanced mix of weapons would now be better off all having the same best weapon option because it's free, so why not? Even so, the armies with larger model ranges have a bit more wiggle room. TSons have the smallest unique range in the entire game, and it's made even smaller by the need to stack Cabal points.
Yeah as a ksons player we have one list and that's all you're ever allowed to run under any context You run Magnus and Ahriman so you can doombolt every turn, you run as many MVB's as you physically can because they're bonkers, you bring the rest of your lists in rubrics and leaders for the rubric squads, That's it You don't run Chaos spawn, No daemon allies BC GW would rather butcher the concept of daemon allies wholesale than balance the literal 2 problem daemons that exist. (Also nurglings are battleline so this didn't even do anything to make daemon allies less cheesy there's still nurglings in every single chaos list), you don't run tzaangor BC they're useless, you don't run cultists. We have like 6 data sheets and we're throwing if we use half of them
Gotta say, it's pretty cool to see that necrons WR has been holding consistent for so long after so many points changes, guess it just shows the variety in the codex.
I like resilience and options, I play stormcast (not 40k but AOS is pretty similar) and they’re basically the marines of AOS, lots of options and the favorite of GW, I have three different types of regular frontline infantry to choose from, so if one is bad I can just switch
GW has been good to Necrons for 10th except for a small bit before our codex we have been at least 48% for our winrate plus there was that 6 month period after our codex where we were #1. We have been consistently in the range of solid to Great. Plus there are a lot of newer ppl in the faction or people who got it as a secondary faction so the winrate among main necrons is higher.
idk if I agree. The faction on a whole might be mostly well balanced against others, but from what I surmise the internal balance of the army is baaaaaad. Units never seen, other units are autotakes (as in, take them or you'll lose), one detachment grossly over-represented... Crons still need a major shakeup of internal balance imo.
Doesn’t seem too bad. Regular Space Marines being low probably rubs a lot of people the wrong way, but it reminds me of the Shoto problem in Street Fighter where if Ken and Akuma have any advantages over Ryu, the try hard players that care about their win rate are going to dump Ryu. Or near the end of Street Fighter 5’s life where Luke came out and invalidated every other Shoto. It doesn’t matter if they’re not the worst character in the game if another character is just the same thing but better.
Nids are at a decent place, now if they can bring all the rest of the "feels bad to use" units up to snuff without causing a bad power spike then we be golden
GK exodus is probably down to copy and paste of the army rule into other armies detachments. First it was necrons, now blood angels both armies have much more play and are just better than GK on the units and speacial rules front. Also playing GK as a kitting, non interactive force is just boring and not fun for either person in a game, it will get boring and exhausting for most so inevitibly they will go elsewhere. As somone thats played since 7th its been there most un-interesting iteration and its why I'm on hiatus from 10th until the codex comes around.
Im a new player to 40K and have only played 5 matches so far, with Grey Knights. I really enjoy the Grey knights playstyle. With Kaldor I usually get to be the first person going aggro. With Termies+ Rapid Ingress I'm usually going relatively aggro aswell. I see it more as a guerilla style army. I try to outnumber my opponents where their "weaker" units are, usually the secondary scoring units. I know I can't hang vs their "big stuff" so I try to kill the other stuff. Have to say however...my games have so far allways been very close. It's hard imagining I would ever table an opponent. PS: I currently have only played 1000pts so that probably changes the perspective a lot.
@ThePaintedHope the fact that you are new to GK actually says a lot. Anybody who has played them pre 10th knows that they have lost their identity as a psychic army.
As much as I want to play my Deathshrouds, 18 DS lists are the only reason why the Death Guard win rate is so high. If they get nerfed, maybe the rest of the army will finally get adjusted to the point where it's more competitive.
@robertcusick9931 I actually think our army was great before the latest. Mortarian points drop was warranted; I don't like how other primarchs are soooo powerful. Relying on knights for 12 S was what was lame.
Honestly I think the faction is fine the way it is right now, since Mortarion is basically a distraction carnifex we need a hard hitting unit that isn't plague marines. Also I love the blightlords but they neeed an ablilty buff not points drop
I say give Terminator’s storm bolters S5 AP-1 and the pistol keyword. Do I think that would fix Space Marines? No, but I also would like Terminators to not suck so much.
@rickkcir2151 That's an amazing idea, especially for shittiest codex marines terminators who have the same point price as Chaos or DA ones but are much weaker by weapons and also rules.
Pistol keyword isn't a good idea really. You would be able to shoot all the stormbolters and the special weapon due to how pistol rules work. Give terminators ability that say they can shoot in combat with stormbolters is a better idea
Hahahahaha, you obviously haven't been paying attention. GW has been actively trying to kill off Deathwatch as a faction for YEARS now. Ever since 8th every time it looks like Deathwatch might climb above garbage tier they come in and nerf them back into the ground. Look at the launch of 10th edition if you don't believe me. For almost a whole week Deathwatch had a particular combination that could compete with top tier armies by being able to reliably wipe a single unit per turn and GW immediately nerfed it, not just killing the particular interaction but additionally nerfing other rules for them, all the while ignoring Eldar winrates that were well over 70% for several months.
@@logansmall5148and then they proceeded to literally just try to murder the faction by turning them into imperial agents allies… I don’t play deathwatch or any space marines at all for that matter but it baffles me that GW is disregarding such a cool faction and all the players who love that faction…
Playing against my friend with Genestealers has been brutal for me in games when my dice aren't hot (Im also playing a UM army so that doesn't help either XD). It'll be a slog to kill a unit of aberants or like a 20-man of neophytes, just for them to pop back up in my face the next turn. Some games feel like I've fought a 2k point army with just my 1k points and get totally overrun by turn 4 or 5.
My experience with Genestealers is relatively low, just a single 500 point game. Pretty fun but like I demolished him and we were cool about it. I just think that I got lucky, good luck with your mate though.
Inner balance not external balance wise - I don't get Chaos Knights having ws/bs 2+ small knights for super cheap if GW wants people to run normal knights at all.
Not surprised GSC have such a good winrate, they're basically guard but better in every way. Look at the Goliath rockgrinder vs a russ for a nice single unit example, very slightly less durable, much better shooting than any russ, and for some inexplicable reason actually dangerous in close combat and punishes people for falling back out of combat. And 2/3 the price to boot. I wish brood brothers could take flyers, as it'd end up being the best way to do aircav guard then. Though maybe the codex will change that.
'Perhaps overdid it with the Black Templar nerfs'. Wow, you think so? As soon as they have their winrate back up it will be right back to 'bolt on multi-melta' and 'sword brethren + insert character kill everything' videos complaining about how oppressive they are.
I like how the Templars keep eating points hike after points hike for playing to their strengths. Granted, old Ironstorm's its own can of worms, but the fact is that BT pay extra for the multi-melta as a chapter-specific deal. What's hilarious is punishing them for leaning on the crusader blobs and Sword Brethren GW gave them. It's fluffy and it works. Not great when the rationale is trying to force a prescribed general playstyle while also pushing to let factions have unique rules.
@ them going to 110 feels strange. Could see them going to 115 and typhus up to 90 maybe. This being a balance dataslate where they fix rules I hope they change a bunch of our characters to make them functional/better
Yeahhh, I feel like DG is being propped up by deathshround slant lists. I love my deathshrounds as much as any stinker but 18 of em? id like to use the rest of my army lol. Hopefully in the upcoming dataslate typhus and shrouds get bumped up with blightlords and the lacking leaders getting point drops.
@Teh_Duck blightlords and the leaders can’t really get fixed by points. Blightlords are already the cheapest termies by PPM. They just do zero damage and have a lackluster ability. Same with the leaders
@@Teh_Duck the bad leaders need actual reworks to their datasheet, not point drops. unless the plague surgeon and noxious blightbringer go down to something obscenely low like 20 points, they'll never be able to compete with how good the blightspawn and the putrifier are in their current state.
47:08 regarding the Adeptus Mechanicus, fight units are overlooked. I must say that Electropriest units are more tanky now and usable on par with Battleline units (when leaded by a dominus for the 4+FNP). Overall this army has 2 main issue 1/ The steep learning curve 2/ the price of the mini ( and a bonus issue, the difficult painting process 😅. Those who know, know 😅😅😅).
The number 1 taken army is 7% (necrons) and number 3 taken army is 6% (tyranids) Thats actually really nice to see that there is a alrge spread of armies
What if we adjust renegade raiders rules down and adjust vanilla datasheet power and points for csm UP. I don't want to run the generic boring good slop detachment please.
And yet for all the bad performance of the Space Marine lists, Calgar and his boys are at the top of tournaments all the time: It's just that there are a million ways to build a list, and most units just aren't very good. As for death guard's results, they are more about the meta than about pure army strength. The things that they are bad against got nerfed to next week, and there's many melee armies that are good in general, but are weak against every single one of the death guard infantry's strengths. The toughness loss, the bonus they get to choose, Mortarion's aura, -1 damage, figths first.... and the counterplay is to just run a different army: Tsons beat them pretty easily.
The idea for all these marines units opening up many ways to build a list is great but clashes with how the game is centered around competitive play. Ultramarines are the most standout in the codex, sure, but I guess tough luck for the rest of us who don't wanna play Ultramarines or Gladius.
Hearing that the Tau are the 4th most popular faction to run out of 26 makes my belief that the Tau deserve more media from their perspective even more vindicated. I need Fire warrior to get a sequel glow-up the same way Space marine did.
I played some genestealers over the weekend. He failed all but one cult ambush roll on a 10 man squad of aberrants that took me 2 turns to kill. I still lost by 30 points. Didn't help much that my space marines couldn't hit anything.
Interesting that World Eaters have low win rates at tournaments because they typically absolutely dominate in casual games. Fluffy lists just can’t deal with them. Unless you’re taking something to block the scout move and have a lot of screening and strong shooting, you are going to get slapped.
WE WR solely depends on whether or not the current meta cares about the chainfists or not. Resistance to AP, some -1s in melee? You win. The current meta just really bennefits them.
I think less adept players aren't as tactical, so they don't know how to shut down the world Eaters gimmick. I love my angry boys, but they're a one trick pony.
Another kicker for why more casual WE players do well is how small the range is. With less datasheets, players who get a generic all around 2k army will not be too far off a viable list. The only room for fluff in WE is CSM painted red which sucks when they are expected to get a second wave this edition, so why buy the unthemed kits when something cooler might drop with the codex?
When we approached the Agents book and it came out you'd be able to make a list using Imperial Navy troops I was like 'hey this is cool and quirky, I do like the void armor dudes so maybe I'll finally actually get back into army collecting'. And then they manifestly sucked and weren't really a functional army after all. Very feelsbad.
I’m sure this could age terribly by the end of 10th but it’s nice that Tau hasn’t been public enemy #1 at any point despite the occasional moments of people over-hyping them.
Shocking to me (daemons player) that daemons are this high-might be my local meta (lots of very elite armies impossible to kill off objectives that high-mobility armies with leadership shenanigans don’t play well into), or maybe a skill issue on my end (more likely lol)
I just started collecting Imperial Agents. I like their voidfarer models. Trying to make a 1k points rogue trader's army. Shame the models are so damn hard to get =( Managed to get a Boarding patrol box from ebay though
23:00 I don't think GW have failed to make the big knights the focus because chaos knights are the armiger knights. Just as Imperial knights are the questoris knights. Want to play oops all armigers? CKs. Want to have a 3-5 list? Play imperial knights.
Great analysis. I am not sure why GW is afraid to give my Tyranids a reliable anti-tank unit or two, but this is getting aggravating. I'm glad demons are doing so well. I need to invest in other gods. My army is 80% Slaanesh and I need to get it over the hump. Lol
The Black Templar nerfs were unneeded. The 20 man primaris crusader squads were cheesy but didn't need that high of a point nerf. That was ridiculous. Ditto for the point increases on Hellbrecht and Grimaldus, unneeded. I got rid of all of my 40 collections except my Black Templars. My ride or die faction.
Imperial agents struggling isn't a massive surprise to me, kinda feels like 2/3/4 armies thrown together. If there was more deathwatch units, some spicier inquisitor stuff and one or two extra sisters/grey knights units just for variety sake it might be different
If I interpret the thumbnail correctly, this version of the game is extremely balanced compared to others. Only imperial agents (which are 66% space marines), 3 space Marine factions and Grey knights are too weak and only GS are (way) too strong. While I don't like balancing issues and am a marine player, I think just looking at this very small bit of data, that is pretty good balancing.
GSC is just in a really awkward spot right now too. It isn't just the win rate, but they way they play. I would hazard a guess that outside competitive they are actually not doing so hot. The way they win in counter to how the average person chooses to play a casual game.
in my necrons in awakened dynasty one of my favorite go to non c'tan options is skorpekh lord with enaegic dermal bond for 4+ fnp on top with 4+ invul save makes him tanky and with him being an infantry charecter makes it so you can use a strat to stand him back up after he dies once
I think one way to help Space Marines out would be each detachment having one non battleline unit become battleline. Infurnus for Firestorm, Eliminators for Vanguard, Outriders for Stormlance, etc
I don't hate the idea for flavour, might take more than just adding the Battleline tag tho. Perhaps something Additionally like BA adding strength to thematic units. Some detachments maybe harder than others to assign units, specifically Gladius... maybe it can glow up the characters units... It's more about adaptive leadership anyway.
I wonder if DG will get a nerf in the next balance slate 🤔 I think typhus needs one because he’s kinda too cheap for what he can do but maybe making him 100 pts total. Also blight lords could use a point decrease while each shroud an increase I think I think that would bring DG maybe down by 1% but the army seems like it’s in a good spot so I’m a happy nurgling
You always Analyse army's by win´s and how the army list are. How about a deep look at SM army's or army's in general that loose GT´s and what there list did look like. In general i am interested to see what loosing army's look like and why did they do it? What have you taken and was it a bad choice or bad dice or simply the whole codex being trash. Or where you set up to loose by a team.
When you spend $150 on a fourth of an army that’s unpainted and unassembled you do have a right to be a little pissy about sudden balance changes. Especially in regard to how long they can take to make
For Imperial Agents I feel like if you just gave them an actual army rule that is pretty decent you would see a good increase in win percentage points.
Poor GK... I wish they'd bring back stinkin' psychic phase. 10th edition came with many good changes but I think it was a big mistake to get rid of the psychic phase. Once something goes away I think its harder to bring it back. GK could answer many threats with psychic powers back in 9th edition. Their mortal wounds could crack even the hardest armor.
I find it funny that you call the Toxicrene underpowered. People are sleeping on it! It can typically hit 2-3 units each turn with its cloud for an average of 4-5 mortals. Have them walk in pair and they kill lone ops and charaters super easily.
At GW headquarters: “ok gang, deathwatch is the least played, let’s combo into the imperial agents and really jazz things up, make this a popular faction!” Proceeds to become less played then the old DW…
Just played Gene stealers today, snd god damn it was miserable. I brought 1850 poonts but he might as well have had like 2600-2750 i took out so much of his stuff first round snd by his turn it was all back and then i got charged and most of the stuff i managed to kill while pinned down kept coming back till like roudn 4 after i kill abour a 3 of his remaining bois with an insane deadly demise but hs still won on points by alot
Gsc are honestly an anomaly statistically. Gsc hasn’t gotten better as an army that much, the 3 people who make it work at the top tables are getting more efficient at it especially with the points drops
Yeah they absolutely nerfed us black templars into the ground for absolutely no reason whatsoever. Games workshop was like "oh they are enjoying themselves.... Let's put a end to that"
I really don't know how GW manages these armies. I went back 2 mo to look at some armies like dark angels at 47%. What I thought was that every army should be within a few percentage points of 50 either way, why nerf DA at all. Complaint 2, I played this game the first year it came out, then started back up mid 9th, bought 10th box set with this set, and you could not play a legal game today I've never seen a Company like GW. best and worst thing that i have seen is the army building app good for your Amy bad if you want look at other armies $60 per book if all 26 books were available $1500 I'm struggling to continue. My 3 armies.
I actually think space Marines interiors are in a fantastic place it's just a lot of people who are new getting into the tournament scenes use those two because those are the latest armies in the beginning sense for Warhammer 40K. If we didn't have any newbies playing I think the win rates would be much higher amongst the two
could the statistics be thrown off by the number of players playing the army? like space marines for example, having a larger volume of participants and therefore losing more times as they have more options to lose aswell as a more diverse range of people who may be of lower skill level?
Codex Marines are nowhere near the most popular faction being played competetively, I believe even this video says they're 11th out of all the factions for popularity
It definitely can, but the more data you get the closer you are to being accurate. And ofc as someone else said marines are pretty middle of the pack in terms of amount played (at tournaments at least)
Grey knights went down after they nerfed libbies etc again. Just has been a steady decrease for us after libbies and dreads knigjts kept getting touched
As a DA player, I understand why they got hit. But my issue isn't so much one of the nerfs individually, it's that EVERYTHING decent got nerfed, or near enough. For a faction at middle of the road in terms of wins, we got hit harder than necessary. My list went up by 105 points, which is absurd.
@@Caranelen I play Gladius with Hellblasters, so my list got "only" 65 points up...but I cut one DWK and include the Lion, and the Hellblasters with the lieutenant and put in a Ravenwing Command Squad with 3 Ravenwing Black knights. And I switched to Stormlance and I regret only that I play Gladius so often.... Stormlance is so fun and so strong with gut melee units. My Winrate with this list is 100% with 4-0 wins. But only games against my friends, no tournaments.
Does GW nerf space marines so they buy other factions? As a new player and ultramarines collecter, feels bad man. It would be nice to see this team actually competitive.
To be fair to GW (which I'm never that keen to do 🤪), for the most part this is really good for the game. I'd say I'm happy with Ork through to Daemons ±3% seems well within reasonable levels. Space Marines (apart from Wolves and BA) need improvement. They should be but never are competitive. I don't buy the GW trope that new players play Marines and therefore do worse. We don't see them winning competitions (and lets be honest if they were going to win the best would be taking them). Genestealers need knocking back, they need a nerf. As for Imperial agents - I don't really see them as a serious faction - good for a thematic series of games but nothing else makes sense with them, in my opinion - so I don't care if they are poor. In a thematic game they could start off with 150% the number of points and get whittled down as fun object, or similar.
It's wild that the Lion and Guilliman are only 25pts more than a walking hive tyrant with the standard enhancement choice of adaptive biology. What the hell *IS* this edition lol
“Less points then he probably should be” no. There have been way worse things in the game then one terminator character that does mortal wound ability akin to grenades. Typhus is fine where he’s at.
It's okay, Agents will make their way to the top. The Inquisition always get their way....We might do better if this army is allowed to take some anti tank vehicles?
I don’t think Agents are meant to be an actual full 40K, their rules and roster are just fundamentally garbage. Seems like it was just a war to sell left over kill team kits
@mattb1602 Right but then why come up with a book. Also, Agents used to be a full fledged army back in the day. They literally just need to open up the motor pool and this becomes a decent army...even with the shitty rules
![[#2024MAMA] G-DRAGON - 무제(Untitled, 2014)+POWER+HOME SWEET HOME+뱅뱅뱅+FANTASTIC BABY | Mnet 241123 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ox29z5Nf1Uk/mqdefault.jpg)
GSC players at the top of the pack- “I still don’t know how we got here”
A plan generations of dataslate sin the making!
Totally agree. I wish my GSC won this much!
I was thinking the same thing. I think it’s just spamming MSU acolytes and jackal jail. Do absolutely no damage but try and score high for 5 turns with expendable chaff and move blocking. It’s a very boring way to play though.
🤣🤣
Just three months or so ago, they were considered unplayable. Competitive Warhammer 40K is a wild ride.
High and low win rates are crazy when almost all the armys are near 50%. That’s insanely good balancing for a game of this scale
And it's duller than dishwater as a result.
@@DeathInTheSnowI’ve had some pretty fun and crazy games. Plus, I personally would happily take the improved balance over almost everything from 9th.
@@DeathInTheSnowWe space marines should hope for the balance of the universe to fall into the hands of the eldar again, things were so good when they were at 70% win rate ruling the galaxy unhindered🧝🤳 oh oops
@@DeathInTheSnow guarantee elsewhere you've complained that the game isn't balanced 😂
@@DeathInTheSnow Care to explain how it makes the game dull?
deathwatch being one of the worst managed factions by GW then being rolled into a new faction that became the new worst managed faction by GW is the most depressing thing
@@Raptor14v Yeah my 3k points of DW just sit in a case collecting dust. Of course with how GW has been treating them the last few years made me quit the game. Kinda hard to justify playing after spending over a thousand dollars on an army to just to have GW say, "naw they don't exist anymore" after constant nerfs while they ignored nerfing armies with winrates more than double of DW.
Deathwatch should have never been an army.
They're such a cringy OC fanfic chapter who's powers are having everyone else's powers.
Marines are already overrepresented and have too much variety, why do we need space marines with every single weapon profile in the entire game on one data sheet. Good riddance to bad trash I hope they outright delete the faction
@@teejay1646Hush little boy! Stop crying and tell me where these bad, bad Deathwatch touched you.
I stopped collecting and playing because of this. I hope the rules this December get me back into it. If not then I will just sell my collections. GW make a game about an army they deleted.. well played
@@teejay1646 Found the xeno
Salamanders player here - We have been punished so hard because of divergent chapters’ abusing our codex detachments. My original 10th edition army has gone up 240 points. :(
Yes, I’m bitching. Lol. Flame storm aggressors should not be compared to bolt storm aggressors using fire discipline. We have no equivalent.
Well, we did have an equivalent.
It was in our themed detachment, which was much less flexible than Gladius.
Which got nerfed because of Black Templars.
But specifically, it was our dev wounds strat.
Which got nerfed because of GW’s wider change to Rites of Battle.
Our dev wound strat was especially potent with Flamestorm Aggressors, due to their innate wound reroll.
Which got nerfed because of the sins of Boltstorm Aggressors.
It’s why I switched my homebrew chapter to using Space Wolves rules. I’m tired of GW consistently fucking over non-blue compliant chapters.
@ Yeah. It’s exhausting. 😞
Honestly, this sounds like a completely self inflicted problem. You’re basically using 1/6th of the codex and relying on flamethrowers. If you want to play fully thematic Salamanders then you can. But don’t expect to be doing amazing with them.
You can’t blame this on the supplements. The best of them is just barely above 50%, and half are down at the bottom as well. They were never dominating the meta at any point either. Even at the start of 10th Firestorm wasn’t anything to write home about.
Blame GW for their horrible SM balance this edition.
I just play Blood Ravens with my friends and basically all my decent units cost so much more than their similarly decent units.
That’s completely false. All of the divergent chapters have, at some point this edition, been one of the top winrate armies.
Black Templars were the earliest, abusing the meltas they duct-taped to their tanks in Ironstorm and Gladius, and the Redeemer with a bunch of sword brethren and crusaders in Firestorm. That’s why the Redeemer got hit so hard. Space Wolves, specifically Wolf Jail, dominated for their fair share of time as well. Same with Dark Angels and Gladius, but they also had a stint earlier where they would abuse Ironstorm and their Ravenwing unit that gave stealth in an aura. Blood Angels have been doing well since their codex, but even before that after GW buffed their index detachment they were doing very well.
We absolutely can blame this on the divergent chapters. All of them have been extremely strong at some point this edition, meanwhile I can count the amount of wins ALL of the non-Ultramarines chapters have on two hands. Maybe even one.
Incredible that the dedication to the PowerPoint format extends to even the ad spots.
It's the consistency that makes us love ol' Auspex. Reliable.
The 49% and 51% armies probably should've been bundled into mid tier. Pretty nice to see so many armies at the centre, hopefully the next dataslate helps out the stragglers.
Thing is if you use these numbers as reference you would be bufffing things like vanguard marines, grey knights, black templars. They do not need buffs, theyre strong enough!
@@EverydayEldrad🤣🤣 no there not, don’t make me laugh
As an Imperial Guard player, I never thought we’d get here either
I play GSC. I'm just as confused as you are.
Guard have been topping events for like 8 months solid, what you on about?
I swear, the GW is just bad when it comes to GSC balance. They either nerf them into the dirt or make them way overpowered.
A fair number of players aren't super happy with them right now, even if they are dominating at the moment. All eyes on that Cult Ambush rework ;_;
They are a problem child like 9th ed Admech, both are very intricate armies with a massive skill ceiling. Casual or even low end competitive players find the army to be fine while the giganerds know every little trick and FaQ ruling to eek out wins. It doesn't help that because GSC is a very intricate army it's player pool is small making QA testing changer much harder.
Thousand Sons being at a cool 50% I think is deceptive, because they have basically *one* viable army list. Tabletop Tactics did a "game accurate" SM2-themed battle report with no Magnus and only three total character models, and the TSons got tabled on turn 3 without scoring a single victory point.
The army can clearly still compete but it's extremely brittle. There's virtually no flexibility in list-building and most TSons competitive lists look pretty much identical.
World Eaters are in the same boat.
Really wish GW would get off their lazy backsides and add some actual options to our rosters for once... we need more than 3-4 actual datasheets, instead of just shoving in more and more AoS crap and calling it a "model release"
I think that's true for a lot of armies. There's a distinct lack of _internal_ balance within each codex, meaning you frequently see the same detachments and units crop up throughout the edition.
I think the rules are so simple and the profiles so limited in their design that you end up with very swingy results whenever something gets adjusted. There isn't enough granularity. It's like a ratchet with 4 teeth - you can only click between very large settings.
For example, if wargear was still costed separately, you could adjust each point on that either in addition or instead of the model itself. Same goes for unit rules; you could have a cost scale for different loadouts. Right now though, things are simple to a flaw. There's little dexterity, or dare I say, fun, in this edition.
@@DeathInTheSnow Making wargear free was the worst decision they made in 10th, and the bar is pretty high on that for me since they also deleted my precious Psychic phase and turned Ahriman's Psychic attack power into a water gun.
The only way to make that balanced is to make all possible wargear combinations equivalent in power, which is not only dumb, it often just doesn't work. Lots of squads which people had previously modeled to have a balanced mix of weapons would now be better off all having the same best weapon option because it's free, so why not?
Even so, the armies with larger model ranges have a bit more wiggle room. TSons have the smallest unique range in the entire game, and it's made even smaller by the need to stack Cabal points.
Yeah as a ksons player we have one list and that's all you're ever allowed to run under any context
You run Magnus and Ahriman so you can doombolt every turn, you run as many MVB's as you physically can because they're bonkers, you bring the rest of your lists in rubrics and leaders for the rubric squads,
That's it
You don't run Chaos spawn, No daemon allies BC GW would rather butcher the concept of daemon allies wholesale than balance the literal 2 problem daemons that exist. (Also nurglings are battleline so this didn't even do anything to make daemon allies less cheesy there's still nurglings in every single chaos list), you don't run tzaangor BC they're useless, you don't run cultists. We have like 6 data sheets and we're throwing if we use half of them
Oh yeah scarab occults are legit unplayable rn too
Gotta say, it's pretty cool to see that necrons WR has been holding consistent for so long after so many points changes, guess it just shows the variety in the codex.
I like resilience and options, I play stormcast (not 40k but AOS is pretty similar) and they’re basically the marines of AOS, lots of options and the favorite of GW, I have three different types of regular frontline infantry to choose from, so if one is bad I can just switch
GW has been good to Necrons for 10th except for a small bit before our codex we have been at least 48% for our winrate plus there was that 6 month period after our codex where we were #1. We have been consistently in the range of solid to Great.
Plus there are a lot of newer ppl in the faction or people who got it as a secondary faction so the winrate among main necrons is higher.
idk if I agree.
The faction on a whole might be mostly well balanced against others, but from what I surmise the internal balance of the army is baaaaaad.
Units never seen, other units are autotakes (as in, take them or you'll lose), one detachment grossly over-represented...
Crons still need a major shakeup of internal balance imo.
I was at the Onslaught WTC event in Florida a few weeks ago. We had 1 Imperial Agents player out of some 90 players.
Doesn’t seem too bad. Regular Space Marines being low probably rubs a lot of people the wrong way, but it reminds me of the Shoto problem in Street Fighter where if Ken and Akuma have any advantages over Ryu, the try hard players that care about their win rate are going to dump Ryu. Or near the end of Street Fighter 5’s life where Luke came out and invalidated every other Shoto. It doesn’t matter if they’re not the worst character in the game if another character is just the same thing but better.
Nids are at a decent place, now if they can bring all the rest of the "feels bad to use" units up to snuff without causing a bad power spike then we be golden
Looking up to you Hive Guard!
Help my boy PoM out!!
To really annoy Ork players allow the cult of speed detachment to take the buggies in units of 3 again
GK exodus is probably down to copy and paste of the army rule into other armies detachments. First it was necrons, now blood angels both armies have much more play and are just better than GK on the units and speacial rules front.
Also playing GK as a kitting, non interactive force is just boring and not fun for either person in a game, it will get boring and exhausting for most so inevitibly they will go elsewhere. As somone thats played since 7th its been there most un-interesting iteration and its why I'm on hiatus from 10th until the codex comes around.
Almost nobody play Angelic Host, it's a shotty detachment rule that doesn't match a CC army
Im a new player to 40K and have only played 5 matches so far, with Grey Knights.
I really enjoy the Grey knights playstyle. With Kaldor I usually get to be the first person going aggro. With Termies+ Rapid Ingress I'm usually going relatively aggro aswell.
I see it more as a guerilla style army. I try to outnumber my opponents where their "weaker" units are, usually the secondary scoring units.
I know I can't hang vs their "big stuff" so I try to kill the other stuff.
Have to say however...my games have so far allways been very close. It's hard imagining I would ever table an opponent.
PS: I currently have only played 1000pts so that probably changes the perspective a lot.
@ThePaintedHope the fact that you are new to GK actually says a lot. Anybody who has played them pre 10th knows that they have lost their identity as a psychic army.
As much as I want to play my Deathshrouds, 18 DS lists are the only reason why the Death Guard win rate is so high. If they get nerfed, maybe the rest of the army will finally get adjusted to the point where it's more competitive.
Yeah, that buff we got isn't lasting long. I feel like it was a cheap way to get our win rate up.
Just please lord don't buff their indirect fire.
Yea, up the points back on deathshroud and buff (not a point drop) our other terminators. We need better internal balance.
@robertcusick9931 I actually think our army was great before the latest. Mortarian points drop was warranted; I don't like how other primarchs are soooo powerful. Relying on knights for 12 S was what was lame.
Honestly I think the faction is fine the way it is right now, since Mortarion is basically a distraction carnifex we need a hard hitting unit that isn't plague marines. Also I love the blightlords but they neeed an ablilty buff not points drop
I say give Terminator’s storm bolters S5 AP-1 and the pistol keyword. Do I think that would fix Space Marines? No, but I also would like Terminators to not suck so much.
@rickkcir2151 That's an amazing idea, especially for shittiest codex marines terminators who have the same point price as Chaos or DA ones but are much weaker by weapons and also rules.
As a Grey Knights player I would love this so incredibly fucking much
Definitely like the pistol idea. Maybe a boost on shooting when arriving via deep strike.
Give all bolter weapons +1 AP.
Pistol keyword isn't a good idea really. You would be able to shoot all the stormbolters and the special weapon due to how pistol rules work. Give terminators ability that say they can shoot in combat with stormbolters is a better idea
If you have the patience to paint that many genestealers you deserve to win
Feel like the Deathwatch will get a huge surge once the new promised index is loaded by GW.
I bet it's gonna follow the trend of being very mediocre at best with maybe like a funny interaction at best.
Hahahahaha, you obviously haven't been paying attention. GW has been actively trying to kill off Deathwatch as a faction for YEARS now. Ever since 8th every time it looks like Deathwatch might climb above garbage tier they come in and nerf them back into the ground. Look at the launch of 10th edition if you don't believe me. For almost a whole week Deathwatch had a particular combination that could compete with top tier armies by being able to reliably wipe a single unit per turn and GW immediately nerfed it, not just killing the particular interaction but additionally nerfing other rules for them, all the while ignoring Eldar winrates that were well over 70% for several months.
@@logansmall5148and then they proceeded to literally just try to murder the faction by turning them into imperial agents allies… I don’t play deathwatch or any space marines at all for that matter but it baffles me that GW is disregarding such a cool faction and all the players who love that faction…
It'll be an addition to its detachment.
All the 5 deathwatch players will be thrilled
Playing against my friend with Genestealers has been brutal for me in games when my dice aren't hot (Im also playing a UM army so that doesn't help either XD). It'll be a slog to kill a unit of aberants or like a 20-man of neophytes, just for them to pop back up in my face the next turn. Some games feel like I've fought a 2k point army with just my 1k points and get totally overrun by turn 4 or 5.
My experience with Genestealers is relatively low, just a single 500 point game. Pretty fun but like I demolished him and we were cool about it. I just think that I got lucky, good luck with your mate though.
@@Slate92500 point games don't indicate anything, it's entirely designed to be played at 2k
@@jacket2848Ok, well that's why I'm trying to get 2k points to have a rematch with him.
Inner balance not external balance wise - I don't get Chaos Knights having ws/bs 2+ small knights for super cheap if GW wants people to run normal knights at all.
Not surprised GSC have such a good winrate, they're basically guard but better in every way. Look at the Goliath rockgrinder vs a russ for a nice single unit example, very slightly less durable, much better shooting than any russ, and for some inexplicable reason actually dangerous in close combat and punishes people for falling back out of combat. And 2/3 the price to boot.
I wish brood brothers could take flyers, as it'd end up being the best way to do aircav guard then. Though maybe the codex will change that.
This is amazing
Such a good grouping
'Perhaps overdid it with the Black Templar nerfs'.
Wow, you think so?
As soon as they have their winrate back up it will be right back to 'bolt on multi-melta' and 'sword brethren + insert character kill everything' videos complaining about how oppressive they are.
Yeah the Warhammer world throws an Emperor sized bitch fit whenever SM are good. It's really fucking annoying.
I like how the Templars keep eating points hike after points hike for playing to their strengths. Granted, old Ironstorm's its own can of worms, but the fact is that BT pay extra for the multi-melta as a chapter-specific deal. What's hilarious is punishing them for leaning on the crusader blobs and Sword Brethren GW gave them. It's fluffy and it works.
Not great when the rationale is trying to force a prescribed general playstyle while also pushing to let factions have unique rules.
Man. My Dark Angels, outside of wonky lists, have been in the low or mid 40s the entirety of 10th 😭
DG being towards the top feels strange. I am here for it though.
It worries me. I don't want any serious nerfs.
I think deathshroud and Typhus could safely get hit a little and be fine though
@ them going to 110 feels strange. Could see them going to 115 and typhus up to 90 maybe. This being a balance dataslate where they fix rules I hope they change a bunch of our characters to make them functional/better
Yeahhh, I feel like DG is being propped up by deathshround slant lists. I love my deathshrounds as much as any stinker but 18 of em? id like to use the rest of my army lol. Hopefully in the upcoming dataslate typhus and shrouds get bumped up with blightlords and the lacking leaders getting point drops.
@Teh_Duck blightlords and the leaders can’t really get fixed by points. Blightlords are already the cheapest termies by PPM. They just do zero damage and have a lackluster ability. Same with the leaders
@@Teh_Duck the bad leaders need actual reworks to their datasheet, not point drops. unless the plague surgeon and noxious blightbringer go down to something obscenely low like 20 points, they'll never be able to compete with how good the blightspawn and the putrifier are in their current state.
47:08 regarding the Adeptus Mechanicus, fight units are overlooked. I must say that Electropriest units are more tanky now and usable on par with Battleline units (when leaded by a dominus for the 4+FNP).
Overall this army has 2 main issue 1/ The steep learning curve 2/ the price of the mini ( and a bonus issue, the difficult painting process 😅. Those who know, know 😅😅😅).
I started wh like a couple months ago and went with black Templar because I thought ooo cool chapter, and I'm a big loyalist
AND THEY FUCKED ME
Dude I started with Deathwatch, you got lucky😂
My ass just bought a full 2000 points of Grey Knights and just peeked at the data slates
The number 1 taken army is 7% (necrons) and number 3 taken army is 6% (tyranids)
Thats actually really nice to see that there is a alrge spread of armies
I'm so happy Astra Militarum is finally getting some love.
You mean aside from being pretty dominant for most of 10th? They've been topping events the entire edition
@@jacket2848 Exactly, I'm happy Astra Militarum is finally getting some love.
What if we adjust renegade raiders rules down and adjust vanilla datasheet power and points for csm UP. I don't want to run the generic boring good slop detachment please.
buff other detachments, nerf rr. rr doesn't even need that much of a nerf. Fellhammer literally needs a change to only one line.
And yet for all the bad performance of the Space Marine lists, Calgar and his boys are at the top of tournaments all the time: It's just that there are a million ways to build a list, and most units just aren't very good.
As for death guard's results, they are more about the meta than about pure army strength. The things that they are bad against got nerfed to next week, and there's many melee armies that are good in general, but are weak against every single one of the death guard infantry's strengths. The toughness loss, the bonus they get to choose, Mortarion's aura, -1 damage, figths first.... and the counterplay is to just run a different army: Tsons beat them pretty easily.
The idea for all these marines units opening up many ways to build a list is great but clashes with how the game is centered around competitive play.
Ultramarines are the most standout in the codex, sure, but I guess tough luck for the rest of us who don't wanna play Ultramarines or Gladius.
Agents could really benefit from a vanus temple operative, both in style and anti-vehicle capability.
These are my favorite videos you do!
Hearing that the Tau are the 4th most popular faction to run out of 26 makes my belief that the Tau deserve more media from their perspective even more vindicated. I need Fire warrior to get a sequel glow-up the same way Space marine did.
Watch the Exodite and be happy, we Votann players are next in line!
(finger on the monkey's paw curls)
The Secret Level episode will involve Titus making sushi in the Chalnath Expanse.
@@AWPtical800 huh, what would he be making sushi out of? considering the Tau aren't fish it wouldn't be them.
@@drugskreening what dose this have to do with eldar?
@@skorathereckless6449 Exodite is a really good warhammer 40k animation heavily featuring the Tau despite the name.
I played some genestealers over the weekend. He failed all but one cult ambush roll on a 10 man squad of aberrants that took me 2 turns to kill. I still lost by 30 points. Didn't help much that my space marines couldn't hit anything.
Interesting that World Eaters have low win rates at tournaments because they typically absolutely dominate in casual games. Fluffy lists just can’t deal with them. Unless you’re taking something to block the scout move and have a lot of screening and strong shooting, you are going to get slapped.
WE WR solely depends on whether or not the current meta cares about the chainfists or not. Resistance to AP, some -1s in melee? You win. The current meta just really bennefits them.
I think less adept players aren't as tactical, so they don't know how to shut down the world Eaters gimmick. I love my angry boys, but they're a one trick pony.
Another kicker for why more casual WE players do well is how small the range is. With less datasheets, players who get a generic all around 2k army will not be too far off a viable list. The only room for fluff in WE is CSM painted red which sucks when they are expected to get a second wave this edition, so why buy the unthemed kits when something cooler might drop with the codex?
When we approached the Agents book and it came out you'd be able to make a list using Imperial Navy troops I was like 'hey this is cool and quirky, I do like the void armor dudes so maybe I'll finally actually get back into army collecting'. And then they manifestly sucked and weren't really a functional army after all. Very feelsbad.
The fact that Core SM is not even in the top 10 of most played armies is a bit eye opening.
I’m sure this could age terribly by the end of 10th but it’s nice that Tau hasn’t been public enemy #1 at any point despite the occasional moments of people over-hyping them.
They are still public enemy in our hearts 😉
Shocking to me (daemons player) that daemons are this high-might be my local meta (lots of very elite armies impossible to kill off objectives that high-mobility armies with leadership shenanigans don’t play well into), or maybe a skill issue on my end (more likely lol)
I just started collecting Imperial Agents. I like their voidfarer models.
Trying to make a 1k points rogue trader's army.
Shame the models are so damn hard to get =(
Managed to get a Boarding patrol box from ebay though
Hey Auspex! I’m sure you’ve heard/seen, but they gave the Nemesis Claw Unit rules for 40k! Would love a review of them!
Dont hate on DG, we have been total ass for most of the edition. Remember how we were doing with launch?
23:00 I don't think GW have failed to make the big knights the focus because chaos knights are the armiger knights. Just as Imperial knights are the questoris knights. Want to play oops all armigers? CKs. Want to have a 3-5 list? Play imperial knights.
as more armies get their codex and their choice of multiple different detachments, I'd really be interested to see the breakdown by detachment
We’ve really been eating well over in daemon land this edition. Honestly feels like we play like what Chaos knights kinda should be imho.
In the meantime Salamanders are in the corner shielding civilians
Great analysis.
I am not sure why GW is afraid to give my Tyranids a reliable anti-tank unit or two, but this is getting aggravating.
I'm glad demons are doing so well. I need to invest in other gods. My army is 80% Slaanesh and I need to get it over the hump. Lol
The Black Templar nerfs were unneeded. The 20 man primaris crusader squads were cheesy but didn't need that high of a point nerf. That was ridiculous. Ditto for the point increases on Hellbrecht and Grimaldus, unneeded. I got rid of all of my 40 collections except my Black Templars. My ride or die faction.
Imperial agents struggling isn't a massive surprise to me, kinda feels like 2/3/4 armies thrown together. If there was more deathwatch units, some spicier inquisitor stuff and one or two extra sisters/grey knights units just for variety sake it might be different
Not even playing them but seeing Admech in the upper half makes me happy.
If I interpret the thumbnail correctly, this version of the game is extremely balanced compared to others.
Only imperial agents (which are 66% space marines), 3 space Marine factions and Grey knights are too weak and only GS are (way) too strong.
While I don't like balancing issues and am a marine player, I think just looking at this very small bit of data, that is pretty good balancing.
GSC is just in a really awkward spot right now too. It isn't just the win rate, but they way they play. I would hazard a guess that outside competitive they are actually not doing so hot. The way they win in counter to how the average person chooses to play a casual game.
Where did you find the numbers for play rate at big tournaments? I’d like to keep an eye on that metric.
in my necrons in awakened dynasty one of my favorite go to non c'tan options is skorpekh lord with enaegic dermal bond for 4+ fnp on top with 4+ invul save makes him tanky and with him being an infantry charecter makes it so you can use a strat to stand him back up after he dies once
I think one way to help Space Marines out would be each detachment having one non battleline unit become battleline.
Infurnus for Firestorm, Eliminators for Vanguard, Outriders for Stormlance, etc
Now we can take more of these units who are sub optimal at best
I don't hate the idea for flavour, might take more than just adding the Battleline tag tho. Perhaps something Additionally like BA adding strength to thematic units.
Some detachments maybe harder than others to assign units, specifically Gladius... maybe it can glow up the characters units... It's more about adaptive leadership anyway.
@@tuurderom2017 they do also get OC 2 and can do actions in the latest mission deck
@tyhar7493 I was thinking maybe one of the veteran squads for Gladius
@@SuitsTheRedcoat I was thinking they made the most sense for first company.
I wonder if DG will get a nerf in the next balance slate 🤔 I think typhus needs one because he’s kinda too cheap for what he can do but maybe making him 100 pts total. Also blight lords could use a point decrease while each shroud an increase I think I think that would bring DG maybe down by 1% but the army seems like it’s in a good spot so I’m a happy nurgling
You always Analyse army's by win´s and how the army list are. How about a deep look at SM army's or army's in general that loose GT´s and what there list did look like. In general i am interested to see what loosing army's look like and why did they do it? What have you taken and was it a bad choice or bad dice or simply the whole codex being trash. Or where you set up to loose by a team.
Great balanced. Love to see it.
Maybe one day something other than Skitarii spam will be viable. Robots and Cult Mechanicus need love too.
The key to not hating balance changes is just playing multiple armies.
When you spend $150 on a fourth of an army that’s unpainted and unassembled you do have a right to be a little pissy about sudden balance changes. Especially in regard to how long they can take to make
For Imperial Agents I feel like if you just gave them an actual army rule that is pretty decent you would see a good increase in win percentage points.
Poor GK... I wish they'd bring back stinkin' psychic phase. 10th edition came with many good changes but I think it was a big mistake to get rid of the psychic phase. Once something goes away I think its harder to bring it back. GK could answer many threats with psychic powers back in 9th edition. Their mortal wounds could crack even the hardest armor.
Hello! I just got into the hobby and I'm starting to collect the adepta sororitas, any tips on the gameplay?
I find it funny that you call the Toxicrene underpowered. People are sleeping on it! It can typically hit 2-3 units each turn with its cloud for an average of 4-5 mortals. Have them walk in pair and they kill lone ops and charaters super easily.
As a Death Guard player being close to the top before getting a codex is a dangerous spot.
At GW headquarters: “ok gang, deathwatch is the least played, let’s combo into the imperial agents and really jazz things up, make this a popular faction!”
Proceeds to become less played then the old DW…
THE IMPERIAL GUARD TIME HAS COME!! WE ARE THE HAMMER OF THE IMPERIUM
I watch every single one of these videos genuinely hoping to see my army in the bottom half. I play guard.
Just played Gene stealers today, snd god damn it was miserable. I brought 1850 poonts but he might as well have had like 2600-2750 i took out so much of his stuff first round snd by his turn it was all back and then i got charged and most of the stuff i managed to kill while pinned down kept coming back till like roudn 4 after i kill abour a 3 of his remaining bois with an insane deadly demise but hs still won on points by alot
Lets go Daemons. We are doing well and just and index. I guess no codex though :-/ We shall see !
i'm a gsc player, we were doing fine before the buffs and now i have to fear the blue shell coming in our direction
Gsc are honestly an anomaly statistically. Gsc hasn’t gotten better as an army that much, the 3 people who make it work at the top tables are getting more efficient at it especially with the points drops
Yeah they absolutely nerfed us black templars into the ground for absolutely no reason whatsoever. Games workshop was like "oh they are enjoying themselves.... Let's put a end to that"
I just started making a imperial agent army I love the unique character I can use
I really don't know how GW manages these armies. I went back 2 mo to look at some armies like dark angels at 47%. What I thought was that every army should be within a few percentage points of 50 either way, why nerf DA at all. Complaint 2, I played this game the first year it came out, then started back up mid 9th, bought 10th box set with this set, and you could not play a legal game today I've never seen a Company like GW. best and worst thing that i have seen is the army building app good for your Amy bad if you want look at other armies $60 per book if all 26 books were available $1500 I'm struggling to continue. My 3 armies.
So do you think they'll nerf SM in December now?
My Chaos themed GSC enjoying there day in the sun
Tyranids only at 49%. Think it needs a 51% increase at least
@@NornQueenKya as a tyranids initiate, I agree
I hope he sees this sis.
I actually think space Marines interiors are in a fantastic place it's just a lot of people who are new getting into the tournament scenes use those two because those are the latest armies in the beginning sense for Warhammer 40K. If we didn't have any newbies playing I think the win rates would be much higher amongst the two
Yo
Bugger 😂
could the statistics be thrown off by the number of players playing the army? like space marines for example, having a larger volume of participants and therefore losing more times as they have more options to lose aswell as a more diverse range of people who may be of lower skill level?
Codex Marines are nowhere near the most popular faction being played competetively, I believe even this video says they're 11th out of all the factions for popularity
It definitely can, but the more data you get the closer you are to being accurate. And ofc as someone else said marines are pretty middle of the pack in terms of amount played (at tournaments at least)
Grey knights went down after they nerfed libbies etc again. Just has been a steady decrease for us after libbies and dreads knigjts kept getting touched
I wonder what good players of grey knights are playing now? That drop was with no nerfs really.
DG need a look at, playing against that -1 tough -1 BS and -1 WS is just so unfun
the nerf of the Deathwing knights was stupid...Fire discipline pushed Dark Angels hard...
As a DA player, I understand why they got hit. But my issue isn't so much one of the nerfs individually, it's that EVERYTHING decent got nerfed, or near enough. For a faction at middle of the road in terms of wins, we got hit harder than necessary. My list went up by 105 points, which is absurd.
@@Caranelen Agree, got hit on every front was a bit to much, DWK derserved it though.
@@mathiasschulze6148 and it even did harder codex complaint chapters more than DA.
@@Caranelen I play Gladius with Hellblasters, so my list got "only" 65 points up...but I cut one DWK and include the Lion, and the Hellblasters with the lieutenant and put in a Ravenwing Command Squad with 3 Ravenwing Black knights. And I switched to Stormlance and I regret only that I play Gladius so often.... Stormlance is so fun and so strong with gut melee units. My Winrate with this list is 100% with 4-0 wins. But only games against my friends, no tournaments.
@@Caranelenbut hey, they lowered the black knights and Sammael...
Does GW nerf space marines so they buy other factions? As a new player and ultramarines collecter, feels bad man. It would be nice to see this team actually competitive.
To be fair to GW (which I'm never that keen to do 🤪), for the most part this is really good for the game. I'd say I'm happy with Ork through to Daemons ±3% seems well within reasonable levels. Space Marines (apart from Wolves and BA) need improvement. They should be but never are competitive. I don't buy the GW trope that new players play Marines and therefore do worse. We don't see them winning competitions (and lets be honest if they were going to win the best would be taking them). Genestealers need knocking back, they need a nerf. As for Imperial agents - I don't really see them as a serious faction - good for a thematic series of games but nothing else makes sense with them, in my opinion - so I don't care if they are poor. In a thematic game they could start off with 150% the number of points and get whittled down as fun object, or similar.
It's wild that the Lion and Guilliman are only 25pts more than a walking hive tyrant with the standard enhancement choice of adaptive biology. What the hell *IS* this edition lol
Please make the big chaos knights cheaper! All I want to do is run 5-7 giant boys!!! 😊
The thing about GSC is you have to be an expert to play them. So it bumps them up.
“Less points then he probably should be” no. There have been way worse things in the game then one terminator character that does mortal wound ability akin to grenades. Typhus is fine where he’s at.
Cadia broke before the guard!
It's okay, Agents will make their way to the top. The Inquisition always get their way....We might do better if this army is allowed to take some anti tank vehicles?
I don’t think Agents are meant to be an actual full 40K, their rules and roster are just fundamentally garbage.
Seems like it was just a war to sell left over kill team kits
@mattb1602 Right but then why come up with a book. Also, Agents used to be a full fledged army back in the day. They literally just need to open up the motor pool and this becomes a decent army...even with the shitty rules
Gray Knights fell HARD, good thing I have Knights as a proper fallback
BT user here
GW can burn for all their nerfs but BT will still keep winning out of spite!
they make like two changes to black templars and puts them into oblivion. sad day
Good thing i just got blood angels combat patrol so i now have the best space marine faction
Woo hoo grey knights got ahead of basic marines
Hail Nurgle. Wish the Carcharodons will return
Why did they do this to my boys the black templars?
I want fluffy lore accurate as possible units. Thats the best way of balancing things IMO.
Guard 52% and yet people made a bigger fuss than back in the day with the harlequins...
Not sure why, but a lot of people hate Guard. They complain endlessly and are only satisfied when Guard are at the bottom.