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Approaching the Scene 133: Advanced Panorama Setup & Free Nodal Measures
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- Опубликовано: 17 авг 2024
- (Links Below) Let's look at how and why to use or not use an advanced vertical rail panorama rig. I'll show you how to build and set it up on a fluid head as well as a ball head and explain whey to use it or not. I've also updated my free no-parallax (nodal) point measurement guide linked below. Finally I'll show you a really cool new multi purpose Arca compatible smartphone mount.
LINKED TABLE OF CONTENTS:
00:00 Intro to ATS 133
01:57 Links & table of contents
02:24 Why you'd use multi-rail advanced pano setup
02:48 Why you probably don't need a lower panning clamp
05:04 Fluid head advantages
06:24 Advanced panos on ball heads
08:15 Shooting simpler panoramas without a vertical rail
12:51 The problem with a panning clamp atop a ball head
14:13 How to set up your vertical rail advanced system
19:06 Multi-row pano with fast moving clouds
19:46 Free no parallax nodal measures add Z6ii, Z7ii and 14-24 S
21:01 How to stow your extra advanced rails and clamp
21:50 A killer multipurpose Arca phone mount and table top tripod
35:12 2021 Workshops update
Free no parallax point update for Z optics: bit.ly/HHNPRLX
Join an upcoming workshop: www.hudsonhenry.com/workshops
LINKS:
Advanced Panorama Gear: bit.ly/HHPPano
Fluid heads & leveling adapters: bit.ly/HHPFluidHd
My advanced pano course: www.hudsonhenr...
My simple pano ebook: bit.ly/HHpanoBook
Arca phone mount (silver): amzn.to/3pLShGp
Arca phone mount (black): amzn.to/36CfO51
Tabletop tripod/head: amzn.to/3oQqB1L
Frequently updated links to all the gear I use: bit.ly/HudsonsL...
Using my links helps support this video series. Thank you!
I invite you to join Rick, Woody, Darren and me for our free live Office Hours Tuesday February 16th 10AM Pacific. We'll talk about portraiture photography and take your questions.
Office Hour signup site: bit.ly/2UgDaX4
Thanks to everyone for the great questions you are sending in. Keep them coming either in the comments below or by emailing me directly. I hope to see you in the next Office Hours Session.
Stay safe and healthy.
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I watch a ton of YT photography channels and I’ve never seen any other content providers put together such a comprehensive and detailed review of tripod pano attachments.
This is about a gazillion levels above my intermediate level, but your knowledge and competent delivery make it so aspirational. 👍👍
I think that Hudson's Panorama course is inexpensive but packed with great information & a must have. Outstanding job Hudson on this video & your course. Thank you.
Thanks Patrick!
I shoot architectural photography, and large panos quite often. When shooting night time panos with architecture, I am very often exposure bracketing 3 full pano sets and manually exposure blending in post. I have found that when planning to line up 3 sets of bracketed panos, you really need a clicked pano head with set degrees of pan. I have found that if I free hand the sets, I don’t get exactly the same perspective on buildings (some are slightly more skewed, and the stacking process won’t work. In this instance, you need to exactly mirror the starting point and intervals perfectly on all exposure sets so that they will stack perfectly when you line up the 3 pano sets for exposure blending. If your just shooting a single set for a single exposure, then I really like the simplicity of your fluid head setup. 👍
I shoot a lot of bracketed HDR panos. I fire each bracketed set in the same position before moving. Usually with modern sensors (at least the Sony backlit ones in my Nikons) I get away with one on the meter and one 3 stops underexposed. I go shoot, shoot, move, shoot, shoot, move... Works great just overlapping with the lcd grid. :)
You have disclosed most of what a newbie would want, Thank you Sir
Some good points, I note, many people demonstrating how to set up a pano system (esp with a ball head)- forget to mention that the tripod needs to be levelled (the panning axis needs to be true to the horizon) as well as levelling at the quick release (base rail) - "level twice" - to avoid arcing horizons.
Thank you Hudson. I started building a panorama system around this video. I actually have a ballhead that doubles as a leveling base. It's the Arca Swiss P0. Since it's designed to work "inverted" from conventional ballheads, it works great in this manner. I attached a Kirk tripod quick release plate to my MVH500 and that allows me to easily take it in and out of the P0 head. If I have a situation where I don't need the MVH500 because of the additional weight, the P0 works on it's own as a panning and leveling base. Everything is attached with Arca Swiss connections.
Thank you Hudson for sharing the updates on the no parallax points! 🙏
Great video as always. Many thanks for the update to the no parallax settings, it is very much appreciated.
Great video!
Thank you, dear, sir, for your amazing tutorial!
Much helpful and very concise and clear, even fine having excellent educational high qualities! Much much appreciated! Now a subscriber and you will always have Thumbs up! Wishing you, and your family immensely richly blessings and please stay healthy and safe during these perilous times we live in! Many greetings from Sweden!
Hudson, would love to see that nodal information document updated with the Z 24-200mm zoom. Since switching from my D750 to Z7 ii, I still have all my heavy fast glass from the F-Mount. After watching your take and others on that 24-200mm, I pulled the trigger and that was my first Z lens that I have purchased, I bought the Z7 ii body only. I am enjoying shedding the weight with that lens for above 24mm allowing me to focus more on growing my skills with composition at this point in my photography over any minor improvement in image quality a faster lens would grant me.
Not sure if many of these videos are tutorials or people trying to rep. gear. Just grab an old L bracket and focus rail like the manfrotto 454 that I have. You can re-purpose for macro and call it a day. finding the mounting spots based on lens and focus length takes about 5 minutes.
Hudson, thanks a lot for your generosity and effort in sharing all your knowledge. I just ordered the Manfrotto 500AH. I would just like to know, how do you connect the camera to tripod head, on top of the Kirk ARQA bridge, is it a Really Right Stuff multipurpose rail connected to a Sunwayfoto DMC-200R and then a Really Right Stuff PC-LR Round Panning Clamp and finally the Kirk LRP-3? And what leveling base do you have below the Manfrotto 500AH head? Do you recommend this custom setup over a Really Right Stuff PG-01 with a Canon R5 with normal lenses to tele zoom (RF 70-200 F2.8)? Seems like the PG-01 will be cheaper than all the parts required. Maybe save for a PG-02 and save me some headaches with all different parts in the custom setup?
Some nice tips in here. I'm gonna purchase your Advance Pano Course. I can figure it out my own probably but, I went into NYC just before the shut down last year to B&H to check out tripods & what not in person. I like to see & check out what I'm buying in person so I can compare different brands. Ended up getting the Manfrotto fluid head with the Kirk bridge & the RRS-192 after watching some of your pano & fluid head vids. Thanks.
I am very impressed with the Leofoto LS-284CEX Tripod legs that you pointed me towards last year, they are truly great especially at the price, but I was using a cheap haed as I couldn't find anything suitable (I consider the Acratech a poor price/features option, plus I can't easily get it in the UK). Recently I purchased the Sirui VA-5 video head, and I am very pleasantly surprised by it. It weighs just 100g more than the Acratech, but you get fliud damping on both axes, some friction control on the tilt, a center spring balance on the tilt, a pan bar and Arca-Swiss compatability. Also it only costs £150. I added an Andoer 140mm nodal rail, Selens rock claws and BBB bicycle tape on all legs and I have a great full height landscape/video setup for just 2kg weight. I could not have done this without your help, even though I have been shooting since the Nikon F80 was new. Please keep on doing what you do, I have found you to be a very honest reviewer and teacher and you have even helped me master some of the complexities of modern mirrorless cameras, even though I shoot Fuji now! Having used four of the big names I agree totally that there isn't really a bad system anymore and I too am a lifelong Hoya filter user - they seem to get overlooked by most YT'ers. Appreciate everything you are doing and your easy-to-follow presentation, thank you!
Quality information as always, thanks Hudson. Cheers.
Panos!!! Great video and good info. I’m probably going to upgrade my pano rig soon. This gives me some new ideas:)
Thanks Hudson! Just what I needed!
So if you want to do a pano in woodland and all the trees are relatively close, is parallax a non issue when using your fluid head.
Hello Hudson, What brand of rails are you using to build the system? Looks like you have upgraded to the RRS pano system in your gear currently.
Hello Henry, I really like your way to talk about pano photo technics: honest, clear, complete. Just a question: I would like to buy the Manfrotto fluid head but I do not know what's the minimum dimension for the tripod to mount it on. I suppose my MeFoto C1350 is too small (25mm leg section) and a 365 Cex should be the ideal. Thank you.
I think that you're right. I really love the setup, I'm producing for it. You can find links to it all at my site: www.hudsonhenry.com/atslinks or see a video on my custom builds at www.hudsonhenry.com/tripods
I was hoping for a review of the Sony Alpha 1 (kidding). Your technical explanations are deeply appreciated.
I can't wait to check one out. I'm actually way more excited to try the R5 out though. I'll probably rent one of those pretty soon to test. :) I love trying everything. Perk of the job.
You did an excellent job showing how to setup the tripod head/w brackets for the no parallax points. In the past did you show the target devices you use to test this procedure? If not could you show what you use and how you do it? Thanks it was a great video!
Again a great video BZ!!! The BIGGEST take away for the reason to use advanced vertical rail panorama rig is the above and below captures and you explained why the nodial/parallax of the lens changes on the fluide and ball heads, your demonstration is great. Has far as the stopping points (degree points), from past videos do you use the 3x3 or 4x4 grid on the camera LCD? Now for night say Milky Way astro a indexing pano base as well on the vertical section allows you to count the clicks for degrees because landmarks are hard to see, do not know why the paint on degrees is not glow in the dark other than it was said to be radioactive long ago. And say what ratio (3x2, 16:9 etc) you can use Planit Pro Panoramic tool and in VR mode see the degrees both horizontal and vertical for the ratio you want it for the mm lens you are using. For new mirrorless cameras novoflex panorama vr-system slim. Thanks for info on RRS clamp patent, really good!!!
It's amazing. With the Z mirrorless, I can see the stars and planets as I pan. Either thirds or quarters are fine, but no less than thirds.
In the dslr days I used a red headlamp blast to see the degrees. :)
I'm much more a fan of using my simple, lightweight, affordable diy system on my heads of choice.
@@HudsonHenryPhoto Great was using just 4x4...about 15 deg step. Please green filters on headlamps and flashlights (on military models), better for vision and red is evil for no way to clone out. Info on green - Deer and Racoons are not spooked with green light (learned from old hunter), I have walked into some woods smelled a deer (yes it happens) sat down got ready two hours before sunrise at 1/2 hour after sunrise a 12 point got up 30 yds away. Great for wildlife photography.
there is an option on the grid on the camera LCD? Where is it in the menu?
@@gosman949 for the Sony A7iii helpguide.sony.net/ilc/1720/v1/en/contents/TP0001653165.html?search=grid
Rule of thirds 3x3, Diag. + Square Grid: 4x4, Square Grid: 6x4 each grid across can be measured as a degree shooting step as well each vertical IF you do not have a degree step horizontal or vertical say doing a hand held pano using landmarks for each step to get more coverage of each shot in a pano stitching program. For each Sony camera model under support-manual there is an online Help and a PDF that can be downloaded and with each camera firmware update a new help file update.
@@echoauxgen I'm a Z guy.
I tend to use an autopan unit that will rotate and trigger the camera for each position.
I go places you'd not want to carry that, but those are fun.
@@HudsonHenryPhoto true, it’s extra weight.
Ounces often matter to me. I've been doing this so long, I'm faster at it than the automated systems. Plus with my rig, I can go from shooting a long lens to a landscape to a pano in seconds.
Hudson - finally got my Kirk LRP-3 slider today after being stuck in the Texas snow storm for a week! Man is this a sturdy piece of equipment! There is one thing that is nitpicking but I have a question about your No Parallax Point measures on your cheat sheet. I'm assuming when you say a setting of 120, you mean 12 on the slider? Or maybe 2? Confusing. Also I was having a hard time finding a pointer for the measurement and discovered it at the bottom of the quick release. Too bad Kirk didn't put the pointer on the side where we can easily see it while on the tripod.
the slider is marked in centimetres with the smaller gradations being millimetres so the 12 is 12 centimeters or 120 millimetres.
@@davidsimpson136 thank you David. So on the 24-70f4 S at 24mm I would set the LRP-3 at 5 on the middle of the tripod head and the camera would be mounted at 12.8 on the slider? Is that correct? That is what I have been doing.
After viewing Hudson's video again, I believe I have it backwards. He mounts the clamp on the nodal rail first at 5 and then moves the slider to the 12.8 point. Or in the video, he moves the slide down to 14.7. He would then keep the clamp on the slide like this all day. When he removes the camera, he takes the slide off with the clamp still at 5. And with the special Lumalabs QD strap (which I have on the way to me), he simply QDs into the nodal rail! Sweet!
@@gosman949 Yes Jay, that is as I would understand it, I do not shoot Nikon so I could not check it, but you could do so with a couple of stands or poles. It would better if you had one of Hudsons longer focal lengths to check with as parallax is not so obvious on shorter focal lengths.
By the way Jay I may have missed it, but be careful which way the LRP-3 is mounted. It seems to me that the 1 centimetre mark needs to be to the front. Hudson does not seem to mention that.
I want to ask if the 180 mm rail is enough for base of this multi raw panorama system or is better to get 240 mm rail?
Have you tried Acratec’s panoramic head and rail?
Www.hudsonhenry.com/tripods :)
Thank you, Hudson, for the extra detail on the setup for the advanced panoramas. I have viewed that lesson in your course several times, but I finally nailed the right setup after watching this video. I have a Benro S6 fluid head. Would the Kirk bridge for the Manfrotto tripod work on that, or are the dimension of the top different?
Sorry I missed this. no the dimensions are very specific. Thanks so much for that feedback!
Hi Hudson - I just picked up your Pano eBook - it looks great! I just bought a Sirui PB-10 pano head which unfortunately, has proven a bear to set up. If you or anyone in your community has any helpful hints, it would be greatly appreciated. Also, I bought a Manfrotto fluid head based on your recommendation a few years ago. If I attached a nodal rail to it would it make a decent pano solution and could you use it to do multi-rows as well? Thank you!
You certainly can for simple panos. For multi row with potential parallax, tilting changes the no parallax point by rocking the camera forward and aft. I just did a video on a fantastic new advanced pano solution: ruclips.net/video/5-yliXckS-k/видео.html I've got links to everything I use age recommend updated constantly here: www.hudsonhenry.com/atslinks
Hey Hudson. For shooting the Milky Way with a 50mm stack panorama. Would I be able to get away with a fluid head, leveling base and nodal slider? Without the multi rail set up to keep it cheaper. Working towards the multi rail setup but would like to keep it cheaper for now.
I’m thinking with the minimal tilting and nothing in the foreground creating parallax I’ll be okay but I want to make sure before going out in May.
Thank you!
-Grant
You'd be great with that Grant. Dialed.
You'd really only get into trouble with a really close foreground subject as you tilt. :-)
Great video. I love Panos, just hate the middle distortion. The getting the proper equipment for the parallax is fairly expensive. Cheap compared to lens's and bodies I know but still..... lol Great video no the less. Thanks!
Thanks for that. Just to toss in a twist. I've often used panos to reduce center distortion. Say you capture a product in 5 overlapping 50mm vertical frames instead of using a 24mm.
Check my links in the description, you'll find that all those diy parts (except the RRS clamp) are surprisingly affordable and light.
@@HudsonHenryPhoto GREAT! I ordered the cheaper options from your advice to try to take my pano shooting to the next level. Thank you for taking the time to reply!
Thank you for the great video.
I downloaded the table with the nodal data of the lenses. I am not sure if I understand you correctly.
Does your data relate to the sensor level or the center of the Arca clamp? If I use a different rail, I need the distance between the nodal point and the attachment point of the Arca clamp.
To work with your data:
Nikon 50mm f1.8 S: LRP-3: at 60 / 50mm: 110
Is the distance now 110mm or is it 110mm - 60mm = 50mm?
I hope you understand my question.
Greetings Hans
Hans. I worked with Kirk to create the LRP-3. It's adjustable. You can position the clamp forward and back on the rail. This makes it much more versatile to work with long lenses, but then short too without it sticking out into the frame. The 50 is the clamp mount position. You will not have an easy time converting for another clamp as it's not a metric scale. That's my one request for the next version. Go metric. Sorry buy you'd need an LRP-3 to get much value. On the bright side the LRP-3 is in my opinion the best rail on the market. :)
It’s a shame that Manfrotto won’t make an Arca Swiss compatible mount for their fluid head. Life would be so much simpler and less gear to bring. Good video.
Kirk's Arca Bridge is much more elegant than anything manfrotto would do though. Lighter too. I love that solution. Thank you.
Hudson, could you share your thoughts on exposure for a panoramic shoot early in the AM or later evening when you don't have even lighting on the horizon due to the sun being low or already set. you have said not to shoot in auto ISO, so I'm not sure what the best approach is to prevent having dark images around a normal exposed center image.
All frames the same exposure and deal with that in post. Swing through the scene prior watching your light meter and expose to save highlights. Bracket for HDR on each shot if needed. Have you checked out my advanced pano video course linked in the description?
@@HudsonHenryPhoto thanks, yes I did get your advanced panoramic video, but since you did go into depth on challenging exposures I wanted make sure you didn't have any other tidbits.
BTW, have you encountered any difficulties with ON1 photo raw 21 with panoramic image files being to big to open and work with? or is it just my computer
I learned a lot from your videos. Great work. I want to ask what is cheaper startup setup for taking multi raw panorama? I liked acratech pano head, but it is very expensive for me.
The Manfrotto 500AH in my links is much cheaper, and a fine head, Just a pound heavier. It's actually the one I prefer if I'm not going ultralight. www.hudsonhenry.com/atslinks. There is also a very affordable Benro fluid head setup in there that will work. Look at the fluid head section carefully.
I watched another of your videos about the Acratech panoramic head. It seems to me that with a levelling base, that head & a nodal rail, that is everything needed for panoramas including multi-row. Is that correct?
Thanks
Hey Ken. Yes and no. For simple panos where you don't have very close subjects a fluid head or the Acratech Pano head are great, but tilting on those heads changes the no parallax point, check out this video I did to demystify that... ruclips.net/video/UCtGGzMKcrQ/видео.html
@@HudsonHenryPhoto Thanks again for the prompt reply. I see what you are saying. The Acratech website advertises that head for multi row panos & other RUclips videos show it being used that way but, as you say, the tilting changes the no parallax point. I really appreciate the access to your expert advice.
Ken
Enjoy watching these videos. Based upon your recommendations, I upgraded to Leofoto LS324CEX tripod with the Manfrotto 500AH fluid head. For the panning equipment, have you looked at the Nodal Ninja M2, it is actually cheaper than the components you recommend?
Thanks Ken. I've demoed N. N.'s gear and wasn't a fan personally. I'm a little confused by the math. My linked rails are $85 for both and all you'd need extra is a panning clamp. I do link a $50 one if you don't want RRS's. I don't think of thier systems come close to $135. I'm assuming you already have a nodal rail to balance on the 500ah. :)
I purchased a few of the Leofoto tripods this last year. Great products. I’ve also been using their geared head for architectural photography 👍
@@HudsonHenryPhoto Thanks for the prompt response. I was looking at the complete setup with the base rail, vertical rail, RRS clamp & Kirk nodal slider for a total of $478 compared to Nodal Ninja at $400 (no rotator). The equipment looks basically the same but I could be missing something?
The NN stuff I've used is a bit flexi and I think the $50 clamp I link is much more in line with their vertical tilt than the RRS clamp. The cheaper $25 nodal rail is more in line with theirs too. Total for that setup through my links is $160, so less than half that cost. If you splurge, get the LRP-3. It's got advantages no other nodal rail on the planet has. I had a hand in making that one happen.
@@HudsonHenryPhoto Thank you so much for the added detail, I am going ahead with your recommended system.
Hi Hudson. Thanks for the great tutorial. Have you looked at the Move-Shoot-Move Z & V Platform designed with Alyn Wallace (On the MSM site). These inexpensive adjustable plates make it possible to use a panning clamp on the Astro tracker, by providing a level platform on a MSM rotator. I love it. Do you ever do focus stacking on multi row shots where the foreground is close, and you dont want to use f22. Would you go auto stacking on the Z or manually 2 step stack (close/far).
Yeah they just sent me some. The Z is a bit heavy though. I can see the V is a nice addition for the night work. Yes sure. It's a fair bit of work, but worth it sometimes. I love the auto stacking in the Nikons, but I set it so that it doesn't shoot more frames than I need. Focus close, let it run, focus infinity and shoot one more to be sure you nail it, move and repeat. Blend each stack first, then merge.
@@HudsonHenryPhoto thanks. Sounds similar to what I was doing, but I always wondered if there was an easier way. Great point about the one extra shot to be sure.. It's fun putting the whole thing together and seeing the result, and frustrating when you miss a couple of shots. Nobody else can tell but I can see it