getting ganked by 3 man in your own jungle 3+ times in 10 minutes will make any jungle main consider opening their window for a talon E. That shit's the most depressing thing that's happened to me in league
och boy, this is the worst feeling. your camps stolen, you're dead with everyone collapsing on you, then after killing you and your camps they kill your overexteded mid and he flames you for being jg diffed XD
@@Thalaranthey precisely...roaming in league has become the most toxic,depraved,disgustingly horrible fucking thing and the only thing done in like 5 fucking years is remove mobis...cancer company,community and game
Idk I play mobile shit that can go thru walls and will concede a camp to live. Not complicated. Who gives a shit. I'm hyper competitive but I understand foe them to invade my jungle my laners get free farm and towers.
Also funnily enough, not taking support item and having 2 adcs nets same gold weirdly enough. Saw it with a twitch kog bot once, not down on levels at all.
AFK is reportable it's that simple. If your team plays to win and you stop trying to win then you deserved to get reported and possibly banned. How well your teammates do or your chance to win the game all entirely irrelevant. Long as your team is agreeing to keep playing you can't AFK, that's just how it is. Maybe they are delusional less than 1% chance to win for sure. Doesn't matter. You can't just AFK because you don't want to play, it's never been that way. At no point in time has it been okay to AFK just because you think the game is lost, even if you are right. Like do you people actually think no matter what if you think the game is lost it gives you the right to AFK? Or is it only okay because he got "griefed" which define that, because he didn't. All his laners played to win, they just played poorly. If you guys think this is not reportable. What's the difference between other random players AFKing because they honestly believe the game is over? You want your top laner to AFK because he lost lane and actually truly believes the game is over? Do only challenger players? Or only rank 1 challenger players get to AFK when ever? It's just a dumb argument.
@@KimiRaikkonen123 i mean, you too would be pissed if you had toplane bard taking all the team's gold shit on junglers all you want, not my role, don't care, but i saw enough mentally deranged players myself to know that i wouldn't do, or at least feel much different in this situation
Idk, I play league for over 10 years now and neither I or my friends did ever intentionally go AFK. If you queue up for ranked league, you should always play it out imo, even if it's extremely tilting. If you can't keep your mental for a whole game, then maybe playing normal games is better.
Nemesis explains it perfectly yet there will be people who won’t understand it.. Game unplayable, go in jng and pretend to play and be afk there or be afk in base. It’s the same and reasonable.
do believe he flames bard or "bardinette" to much tho, sure its not optimal, but if you think you go into solo q and everyone play optimal, you live in a diffrent world. i have played tons of times with bardinette, and i dont like his playstyle, but i would rather have him then a normal ego afk midlaner zed /yasuo otp. his botlane lost 2 vs 1, and 2 vs 2, at the end of the clip, youy see leona going top, and then ezreal is left for 2 vs 1, and still kills pyke and surives. sure going afk is always bad, but if it was me, i proboly would had still played the game but wathcing a youtube clip on my second monitor, maybe just afk idk, probly afk haha. but yee, we see so much in social media that people get to a conclusion wihtout context which is awlays amazing :)
The issue is, the silver jungler that watches Agurin will then think it's fine to go afk when his top laner loses because 'he's getting griefed and there's no point in playing anyway'. Streamers are people who make money playing the game and have a big influence on how the community as a whole acts too, so they should absolutely be held to a higher standard. Just suck it up for a few minutes and take your money.
@@bakamitai3462what can you do if you play zyra and cant clear anything b4 minute 2? My guys gold peaked and try to analyze a play which is not your elo obviously lol
Imagine having thanos and support living in your jungle, midlane getting fisted, and all the support characters stealing gold + exp for the entire game that's just unplayable for everyone. There is a difference between forcing your teammates to play around your pick and simply having an off meta pick that works independently from others.
It's kinda fun, Bard consedes his lane to roam around and help his teammates, while Renek takes all the farm and still do the same - roams around and helping his teammates, I wonder when Bard's strategy actually gonna work..
This is not some noob griefer, its a master tier player. That strategy is good, as long as your mid and bot are competent at all. Jungling with bard top is such an advantage, as a "fed" renekton will still die to fed bot mid
Yeah, thats most cringe thing you can get. And you know what's funny? Random Timmy on Reddit who stack in emerald elo at most, played 12345 years ago with Soraka top and win this game would think that Agurin CAN and MUST win this (Like he's rank 1 EU and KR how he cant win??!??!?) Absolutly disgusting humnans playing this game and get promoted by Riot with their dgeneresy XD
If he at least played his lane normally the worst that can happen is he has a losing top side and loses krugs but with this bard just lets renekton have his jglers top side camps and the entire lane to himself, even if they somehow got ahead they'd be facing a monster fed 6 grubs renekton that cannot be stopped by anybody on their team To the fucking guy learn to fucking read b4 posting. I'm fully aware he inted his jgler. That's why I SAID IF. But he didn't even lane top side so entire topside was unplayable fucking learn to read
Jungle main here climbed from hardstuck p4 to emerald within the last 2 weeks, felt the improvement happen in real time - but if enemy support is in my topside jungle for 5 out of the first 8 minutes and enemy top is deadbushing me because my top thinks he has to reinvent the wheel I'll just go and make coffee to save my mental for the day.
Even if he was not AFK, with the way the game played out, he might as well be. The moment he was getting three manned in his own jungle with none of his laners responding, there is no way for him to gain gold or XP safely anymore (unless he shares XP with his team, or lanes toplane versus an accelerated Renekton).
Don't worry, Brand will simply keep farming 3 quadrunts for the rest of the game, while Zyra has to stick with one (so Brand will have 24 cs per full clear and Zyra 8), enemy top lvl8 5 plates first tower Renek and your top lvl4 bard 0 cs, winnable! XD Redditors (mostly silvers) cosplaying this bard 95% of their games, that's why they bullying Agurin.
@@NemesislolClips Don't care doesn't matter. You don't deserve a career in streaming a game if you quit at 1:20 into the game. It's pitiful, suck it up.
@@NemesislolClips Forced to play around a certain strategy just because one player plays a certain way, and he shouldn't be able to do it? Sounds like a certain swedish sion enjoyer I know of.
Theres nothing to flame Nemesis for, theres no one to carry the game, just because you can come back your little silver games where everyone will random int it mid with 2k gold on them and no objective to even fight for doesnt mean the same happens here.
Except it does happen there. It happens all the time. And anyways the main issue I think, and this isn’t really Agurins fault, every silver jungler will now think it’s reasonable to afk when one of their laners giga ints.
@wowitsfrostygames155 it is reasonable to afk when laners giga int. This game isnt overwatch or random six siege. The juice just isnt worth the squeeze in 99% of games. When your so behind why do you wanna spend 10 minutes avoiding enemy and trying to farm and praying and hoping your team doesnt just run it down again randomly instead of just going to the next game? Even if your team doesnt throw again thats still 10-20 minutes extra they made the game last by inting and you spend that time just trying to get EVEN with the enemy team. And most the time even if you do get even with the enemy they will have a better team comp and win anyways. Its just not worth it. So if people wanna hostage after throwing they will get a afk and its that simple. Accept your mistake you played bad in a hardcore snow balling genre of game with no chance of come back, move on gg next.
@@wowitsfrostygames155cause it fucking is. laners really just realise this now? so you didnt notice it until now? imagine top gets fucked, enemy jungle can freely invade at any point with NO FUCKING LANER HELPING WHATSOEVER. yes bro you can play the fucking game being 0-5 in lane, I been there, but you cant play jungle when you have inting afk laners who will NEVER help you defend your exp/gold. pls just play jungle for a month and then type ur thpughgts
@@WorldKeepsSpinnin that’s loser mentality. And that’s not how you improve. Not much left to respond to that. I’d hate to think of how much free Lp you’ve lost simply because you didn’t want to even try to win a game you self identified as unwinnable.
i commented on this defending Agurin basically saying the same thing Nemesis said ( either my game analysis is pro-level or im just not r-worded) and was downvoted to hell. I dont know where reddit gets the gall to think they know the game better than the arguably best solo queue jgler in the world man...
The issue is, the silver jungler that watches Agurin will then think it's fine to go afk when his top laner loses because 'he's getting griefed and there's no point in playing anyway'. Streamers are people who make money playing the game and have a big influence on how the community as a whole acts too, so they should absolutely be held to a higher standard. Just suck it up for a few minutes and take your money.
@@Black3142 this is where I ultimately disagree: you cannot treat a silver game equal to a challenger game, it's just a different game even though it's still called "league of legends". in the past, opening games was a "strategy" used by high elo players as they were very good at recognizing when the games are lost and when they are winnable. we even see this in servers of korea and china, where they often times give up playing. obviously this doesn't mean they're always correct and it's not black/white, but the reality is that people will ALWAYS be influenced regardless and giving up in lost games should be acceptable in master+ as it has a lot of benefits.
yeah but u have to consider using your own critical thinking and understand why he did it. if u just assume that people are gonna copy him no matter what then the problem is not agurin but people just copying a streamer for no reason. Like baus enjoyers in the toplane you cannot blame him for people in low elo copying his strat and failing but just the silver player being dumb and not understanding the strategies well
@@weylyn_luke8972 Yeah it is people's fault but after thousands of years of developing civilizations we KNOW FOR A FACT that people will keep doing stupid shit. That's why there are laws that say you HAVE TO wear a seat belt while driving and fines when you don't. Footbalers are held to a high standard when it comes to hate, racism or other stupid shit, we should keep our League streamers to similar standards in order for the entire community to be better.
@@NemesislolClips People who watch Agurin represent the entire lol community, you can't persuade me that it's not a bad thing they see that shit happen, then misinterpret it (because as you say, they're playing a different game) and do it in their games. Footbal players, actors, musicians, they all have to be wary of what they do and say because that's their social role. Whether Agurin wants it or not, he has an influence over the entire LoL community and doing that shit makes the community objectively worse.
i was "pleasant" enough having played with bardinette like 4-6 times last year and holy shit was i misserable when he was in my team and happy when he was in enemy team.also how is this guy not banned yet everytime we got into game everyone said before the game even started to agree on reporting him.realy no clue how this is still allowed.
Support players always go unpunished no matter what they do. I swear there is a system that if you lock in a classified support champ, the system is restricted from banning you. I know it's disgusting, but I once limit tested this. Didn't get banned. I queued Varus support and took all the farm to see if I can get restricted. Did that for 10 games and nothing happened. Made sure to stay 10 cs per minute and take every kill. Then I queued Leona support and ran it down. Averaging around 17 deaths per game for 10 games. Again, nothing happened. So as long as you queue support or in this case with Bardinette, support champions, you can't get banned for nothing. Fuck Riot
He's the lp he is because of the way he plays. If he would be intentionally feeding then he wouldnt be masters. A 500lp master player with the weirdest strategy on earth is still equivalent to an average toplaner whos 500lp master. Your teammates are literally the same strength, no matter how much you hate the strategy or complain, it is as effective as getting a regular teammate on your team...
@@BigSources I don't know about average top laner. Someone who decides to not lane and just gank mid and bot, leave top for enemy top lane to get full platings and full minion waves, is DEFINITELY NOT the same as average.
I mean he managed to climb on it so he definitely has a right to be there. There's also the Yuumi top Grandmaster player or the River Ivern top. Nobody cares about Toplane anyway and Renekton falls off late. I do have to agree that Agurin's teamcomp is bad.
I think Agurin has way better knowledge of the game than little Billy on reddit trying to get out of Iron. Bro reached challenger on the Korean server.
Ive played with bardinete on my team once and even tho we won, the gameplay made me want to jump out of the window of my neighbors 5th floor, its so low quality and annoying.
The difference between Agurin and low elo players is that when Agurin thinks the game is lost he's probably right, while in low elo people go afk in winnable games thinking it's lost. So if you are a low elo player watching Agurin and trying to copy him you will unintentionally grief. That's what's wrong with the situation, he may be right but is setting a bad example by streaming it to people who couldn't make calls like that correctly. It's just bad to be a streamer and afk.
or your silly ass doesnt pick bard top in a ranked game. how about that? I still dont get how people dont understand that afking 95% of the time is the fault of a team mate who decided to first time an off-meta pick. if you dont want me to afk play a fucking normal champ or go 8-0 so your useless pick can at least be not useless
Agurin the philosopher, Agurin the life coach, Agurin the role model, Agurin the leader, Agurin the messiah: deliverer of gospel. Or is he just a dude that plays video games and clicks „start stream“. Maybe you should start demanding people have some semblance of fkng autonomy instead
like u need to understand why he did it. if people just copy paste what he does without no matter the reason then the problem is not agurin but people copying him. he should never be accountable for what people do because they do not understand the situation...
@@kurt-o0o This is pretty much a "straw man" argument. Saying Agurin is probably better at recognizing a lost game is completely reasonable, and stating that doesn't even require you to like him as a streamer or player. It shouldn't be unclear to anyone who isn't delusional. Of course he isn't perfect in every aspect like who is? And it's very common in low elo that players think a game is lost even when they are actually in a very good spot. They either: A: Don't understand the game, so their view of the game state is biased by that, or B: Are delusional and think their rank is so good that if the enemy gets a 7k lead, for example, they will end the game correctly without making mistakes. In reality, you can delay almost any low elo game to at least 30 minutes just by pushing waves.
As a jungle main for few years I can tell - having 3 hard loosing lanes is the worst thing that you can face as a jungler. You can be better jungler than ur opponent, invade or even solo kill him, make few successful ganks, take some objectives when enemy top or bot is basing but then it's nothing you can really do and the further game goes on, the less influence you have. The only way to win these games is to take hard carry jungler like Rengar, be much better player than all your opponents and constantly kill them so your teammates can take their free lanes and actually do something
Watched the video. Going back for seconds. This Bard (after reading comments) benefited greatly from name hiding. No one would give him this champ if they knew from team ban.
The even worse problem is if you ban bard he will hard int your games. Look up his win rates on the champs he picks when bard is unavailable. He does the same dogshit strat with 20% win rates just on illaoi and malphite. He’s literally the definition of rapist gameplay, forcing your team no matter what to play his way.
In games like this, League should introduce a same system like Dota. When levels and gold aren't comparable and the game state isn't competetive due to trolls or afks, you should be able to leave the game for free. Any modern game lets you leave the game if you have trolls or afks. This game hasn't. Bard is down 3 levels, thousands of gold, but who gets punished in the end? Zyra. So unbelievably stupid.
How do we ensure the a player is leaving for justified reasons? One could easily say their teammates made the game impossible when it was actually themselves. Manual review would be necessary. And if every player could access the system, the backlog of game reviews would be too large to get through. I like the idea, but it doesn't seem possible to implement.
@@drjamaymay405 When it is literaly implemented in Dota, the competitors product? Well how do they do it then.If they can do it, there is a way. It's not about seeking the optimal solution, it's providing one and improving it.
@@yoshi596 i am not familiar with how dota does it. I am impress they managed to do it tbh. that seems like an extremely difficult process to get right.
@@drjamaymay405 SO? is Riot Games, they have enough money to get the tecnology and people to implement it, it's just that they know that the average LoL enjoyer are stupid and nolifers, so they'll never implement it
You do not understand. Glue drinking trolls with smooth brain will stop to buy skins or even extinct in League. And RIOT have some unexplainable love for this part of playerbase. So any system which can apply pressure in them will never be implemented.
I think there's another element to this. Beyond this being a completly lost game where only chance at victory is enemy team giga inting, its just not fun ? I dont watch Agurin but i dont get how would anyone wanna watch the guy go full clearing while getting fucked by 3 people (you are basically non factor at that point = AFK) I would rather see him do anything else at that point. Also the fact that you are streamer doesnt mean you cant go afk, sure you can and its on Riot to do the punishment, shit ton of players go afk in my games daily after running it down but thats not an issue but when Agurin(granted he wasnt even inting at all and was just pissed) did it it is ? Everyone's gonna forget this incident in few days and i just dont see peopl going afk "because Agurin did it" - If you are gonna go afk you are gonna go afk for a reason, this at best is an excuse.
Its reasonable for Aug, but NOT for the countless other players who are going to view this and think they are qualified/experienced enough to make this choice and feel confident in it. As Nemesis said its just reddit low elo players misunderstanding the situation which is exactly why its bad. Logically its understandable but its about upholding the "principle" and that should be punished. If you afk you should be punished no matter what because not doing so opens up so many more holes. Thie doesn't mean he needs some extreme punishment he should be treated like any other player.
Would agree with this in the case of Riot acutally caring about making SoloQ a better place (punishing afking, soft griefing etc etc). the reality is that ultimately they don't give a shit evident by many years, as what Agurin did this game is nowhere near as bad as what his team did, but everybody just focuses on Agurin
@@NemesislolClips That's fair. I was mostly looking at this from a community perspective. Riot does a poor job at actually handling things like this correctly. My only concern is really how the community themselves will use this to fuel their bad takes.
Hello, i'm the Toplane Turret. As you can imagine, i'm quite used to this type of behaviour sadly. What bothers me most is that agurin is a player i've always liked to have on my side, but he cant protect me every game. Sadly, my laner abandones me every game, which is even worse in this game in particular. I can understand the frustration. Bardinette is an OTP that warps the game in a way that forces everyone to play around his weird (lacking) playstyle without their consent. If you have ever played Zyra Jungle you know it is an early game focused, high economy jungler that needs to be ahead or at least even in terms of cs to still be relevant. If you would take more then 60 seconds and actually watch the entire game, you can see that draft is pretty horrible, because there are only 2 ppl in this game that can actually use gold (Zyra and Kaisa) but the few kills my team gets land on Bard and Pyke. Agurin got invaded on over and over and baited the enemy team into bad plays multiple times. Yes sure he can surrender his top quadrant but how does he play the game from there on? Is he just supposed to clear Wolves, Blue and Gromp over and over until the game is finally done? Enemy Team has a Trynda that got a random kill lvl 1 into Malphite (which is illegal btw) so Trynda has Tiamat (thus prio) from min 5 onwards. Also, they have noone to stop him in midgame from taking turrets. Its simply a lost game. No matter what he does will result in the same outcome. Have some respect for your time and also the time of your teammates. Move on from games that clearly arent winnable/playable. Noone is having fun in this game anyways.
I agree with the points but at the end of the day, going AFK is against the rules. It is what it is. Those rules may not always make sense, but you can't introduce a level of ambiguity that would require a panel of high elo players to judge if it was justified or not.
you're right. i hate how strict people are with AFKing but that's the rules afterall. Personally I dislike trying to play a lost or frustating match and I rather surrender because I'm not having fun, but that's playing normal games, ranked challenger games can't have this excuse
Sure, then he will get whatever penalty Riot decided to punish AFKers with (which I think is LP loss and some short queue timer). People are calling for him to be banned for two weeks. Those are surely the same, kappa.
@@flvrm57 thats not really a problem. competitive team games are always like this and the only fix is if its possible for every champion to be capable of 1v5ing at some point in the game, and thats just not realistic
@@UltimatePiccolo it's a game action where you can't play anyways that made him afk, not just the fact of having a non meta pick or a "bad game", why do idiots not understand such a simple thing fortunately you don't live in Korea where it's normal for pros to ff at 10 minutes or open mid even before that because the game is unplayable anyway you are not challenger players, it is sure that you cannot understand, your low elo games are comebackable even if there is 0/20 at 15 minutes and that is NOT from agurin responsability to educate people on the difference between challenger games and low elo games after a while go fuck yourself if you're not happy about it , contrary to what you think, he doesn't owe you anything
He died at the start writing ff 15 and you defend it ? Ist such a Bad mindset for a very high elo pro player to have After only giving a Single kill. I only Expect thies from mental weak low elo Players And you cant Tell me that you really think that a mindset like that does Not affect your gameplay at all. There is a reason why high elo Players that give coachings Talk about the mindset and how to Look at the Game to have the best view to win.
@@rpscorp9457no he is not top 10 every Season and he does not play in proplay. He always was toxic in the past and softinted or was afk Agurin never was known for that.
While I agree that the game is pretty much lost, especially in a master tier lobby where they know how to close out games, you still need to go through the motions and play till 15 minutes. If we start agreeing that it is okay for a player to AFK in games that are over, we then start arguing over when a game is truly "over" and at what elo it is acceptable to afk because the enemy team won't throw. But yes, in this particular game Agurin is fucked and can't play at all. Should he be punished? Idk. Do players get punished after afking 1 game? Probably not. He might get a warning if its his first time doing it and a lower que priority.
thats exactly what they do in korea (talking about masters+lobbys) ff 10 , open mid when its obvious loss, and go next quick guess what, they are the best league of legends country maybe we should considere that then they probably are right and see it is a way to save mental health ?
@@Firerider5 opinions can be wrong, and extremely counterproductive. if you are incapable of understanding something your opinion is worthless, and the opinions of bronze players about winnable game states in challenger is laughable. even if its a bronze's opinion of another bronze player, youre trying to ascend out of bronze, so why listen to something another bronze has to say?
@@booperdee2 That is like saying you are not allowed to vote unless you you have a Ph.D, because you arent smart enough to make a choice. League is still a game, the opinion and feelings of EVERY player are valid. Which is why riot doesnt just balance for the top 0.001% of the game. Every player is a potential customer, so your opinion is valid. Does the bronze guy have more game knowledge? No. Does the rules that Riot created apply to everybody, no matter the rank? YES!
As someone who played jungle at all back in season 10, I can tell you this is one of the worst experiences imaginable, having zero priority in your jungle so early means you will be permanently down camps and the enemy jungler will easily snowball over you as you have almost no safe camps to take while you lose top turret so quickly. Its like playing a 4v5. Its hopeless. You may as well afk if enemy team has actual brain cells at this point to abuse the zero priority toplane.
I really dislike agurin, i hate listening to him, hate his attituide, hate his playstyle, hate his personality. I REALLY wanna agree with reddit on it, but hes kinda right. That being said i do not condone afking in game, i'd prefer he afk farmed. But even as a peron who pretty much never ff's i'd ff this one. Being bullied as jungler outside of jungle is one of the worst feelings league can provide
I agree with the later points u make, but having so much hate for someone u dont know personally and no one forces u to watch shows how chronically online you are.
@@realVIITA i dont watch him. I learned of him via neme tournament like 2 weeks ago. Then visited his stream to see if hes just as insufferable on his own. He is. Theres no "so much hate" theres just many reasons to dislike him. Its not that deep. It doesnt brother me. But at the moment im somewhat "forced" (VIA watching neme or druty) to see agurin i'd prefer not to see/hear him. Cheers, sad brother.
@@Thalaranthey Im not and hoping ur doing great too. all i referred to was u listing things u hate about him while admitting u dont watch him. especially when druttut and neme were rly hated players in highelo for a long time too for being toxic. every streamer is being watched for different reasons and agurins viewers mainly watch him cuz he is arguably one of the best SOLOQ junglers worldwide. and in that clip it was basically in chess terms: Magnus Carlsson sees mate in 5 and resigns. I didnt see it and think he is trolling. No disrespect intended, stay blessed.
@@realVIITA well i cant see a reason to watch agurin, from what i gathered theres plentiful better junglers. I had no idea neme and drutt were hated despite watching them somehwat regularly for last few years(like at least 1 vid/1-2months). You sure you didnt just sit on some hate reddit forum? AAAAAAnd if you didnt understand i literally agreed with agurin there despite my dislike for the dude. During the tournaments there was no 5head strats from him, hes just extremely selfish player which is rather a good thing for soloq, but not for more cooperative enviroment. Thats why they played a lot better in later matches when he adapted. But sadly he was still bitch about it so no redeption arc
@@Thalaranthey yes they were, just like the pro "jensen" for example who even was banned in euw. once his ban got lifted he went pro. Redditors are smthg else. And yea i get what ur saying about agurin and hes rly whiny and hard to listen too sometimes, but facts over feelings he is multiple times in different seasons rank 1 euw and was korea rank 1 aswell and created the jarvan meta on that server by himself. not trying to be disrespectful but can u name those few better junglers? Stay blessed
I think most people would agree the game was practically unwinnable but thats not an excuse to afk. You queue for comp, you play to win. If you want to stop playing you ff (now easier than ever 4v1). There cannot be a double standard for anyone with regard to this. Low elo noobs can decide a game is unwinnable and afk and be rightfully punished (lol riot useless never happens) but its okay if high elo player does it? As long as the game is not over you haven't lost yet, quitting should never be tolerated. Murdering a criminal is still murder. Quitting in a losing game is still quitting. Also bard should be punished for grieving you queue top you play in the toplane.
No. Lol. I mean your statement is so stupid you should be able to figure out why its so dumb on your own. Go play a couple ranked games, you will understand eventually. Tip: theres a thing called being held hostage. Theres more then just that but getting into it with someone this delulu probs isnt worth
@heyjustchillin like i said you will figure it out on your own, i mean you probably already know what you said is completely wrong but you just want attention and to waste someones time
Agurin and the other 4 players on his team had the choice to dodge he decided not to, why should he be allowed to go afk, once you enter the game you play it until the end or you ff, if you dont want to be "held hostage" dont enter the game, not every game is winnable but that doesn't mean you should show this as an example of what to do when you think the game is lost, is sad that it happened but this just gives griefers validation for going afk in low elo matches.
it is the same to afk at towers at that point and wait for the game to end as it is standing in the fountain. it's not that hard to understand, the reality is that if you want to endorse punishment, then agurin should not be the only one experiencing it, as what his teammates did is worse
All I see here is a very high elo player advertising to their generally low elo audience that its okay to afk if you deem the game unwinnable and that you are 100% in the right to do so without punishment if you specifically didnt make horrible misplays. Nemesis would probably argue that low elo players are too stupid to know when a game is truly unwinnable and therefore only extremely intelligent high elo players (but not any of Agurin's teammates ofc) can make that expert decision. Regardless if its correct or not, its no different than people complaining about Baus making the “inting sion” playstyle popular and ruining low elo games even if it works in his high elo games. Plenty of silver / gold players will now think its acceptable to afk because Nemesis said its okay to a wide audience so long as the game cant be won (which is a subjective decision).
@@majseketin2280 I've literally watched the entire video, but if i missed something Nemesis said that contradicts my comment id love to know because id be much happier if that wasnt the message being conveyed to the general league playerbase.
@@majseketin2280 Tried re-watching to find where he says the "afk when game is lost" strategy should only be done by Masters+ players and/or not be done by low elo players, but couldnt find it. Care to share timestamp?
I'll just copy what I said under the Agurin video regarding the genius advice to "just dodge the game bro": The people saying just dodge the game to have a choice should get matched with Lionl9 for their next promo matches... It is just an alternative strategy after all.
Anyone with common sense knows that since top side is basically gone 24/7 and he goes bot side then they can just collapse on him there because his bot is feeding and the enemy mid is fed as well. Renekton is just vibing taking tower while bard is doing fuck all. Even if agurin invades all it takes it one ward and boom dead again. He has one section of the jungle. And on a power farming jungler at that.
yep the morons on reddit are saying "just go botside" like brother zyra is a power farming jungler that needs gold to scale, you cant give up 50% of all your resources and expect to play the game. now some genius will say that he can invade but he cant because they literally just put 1 ward on the botside jungle of blue side here and if zyra ever crosses river they 3-4 man collapse on her and kill her immediately
@@drjamaymay405 no he’s saying that he didn’t punished because he’s high elo which is just false. Alf punishments are automated so it doesn’t matter what elo you’re in. He probably never afks so he didn’t get punished.
why not? the margin for error in higher elo is much smaller than in lower elo, to the point where having a SUPPORT BARD TOP LANE morphs the game in such a way that you're not playing the same game anymore.
Whether or not someone "is allowed to" afk isn't decided by anything Nemesis says here. The point is that it should NEVER be in a SINGLE player's decision whether he stops playing or not. It should always be a team decision (aka surrender vote). The reason for that is that it's almost impossible for a banning agent to determine whether going afk is somehow justified or the right call, so we just have the choice of looking IF someone was afk. It's a matter of principle, even if I agree it's a disgusting game for Agurin and he got done really dirty here. Unbelievable that we're trying to set a precedence for when a game is so lost you can just individually decide you're done. If you can't handle being in these games for 10-15 minutes, touch some fucking grass.
then should be a team decision if he wants to play with grief strategies in his games... idk a lot of people got banned for those type of strategies(nubrac and such) so don't say bullshit
@@600apmgod8 I am (low) masters, besides what you are arguing for is known as "call to authority", which in philosophy is considered a fallacy or dirty rhetoric trick. The value of an opinion needs to be based on their own merrit, not on who gave them. Of course, informed people are more likely to have more valuable opinions, but informed individuals can be wrong and the other way round.
I don't think you understand the first or second thing of competetive integrity. Bard, Malphite and Pyke this game haven't shown that they are playing their best and made very poor decisions in what is called high elo. This ruins the competetive integrity of the game down to zero. If ranked environments aren't competetive your standard morals fly out of the window. So keep them where they are, in your brain and out of comment sections. Such useless input
@@yoshi596 It's not their fault that Agurin is a R1 player and expects others to play on that level dude. Making poor decisions is something completely different than AFKing or trolling. It hast literally nothing to do with competetive integrity as long as they are trying to win, which at least Bardinette is doing. And again, none of this is for the individual to decide. This is the entire reason we have this ff mentality in the game rn where every other game is decided by the one guy mental booming and trolling/AFKing/soft inting. Just like Agurin is doing here. He is part of the problem and so are you, from what you wrote..
Idk, i don't think afking is ever justified, no matter how lost the match is. That behavior is inherently looked downed upon and a reportable offense. It's common sense, it just gives the wrong message to other players watching too. If the vast majority is against you than maybe you are the one who's wrong
they were going to ff at 15 anyways, him afking just let them ff 2 minutes faster. it made zero difference to the game whatsoever, i just dont see how its not justified
If you, after 2 challenger player who are probably both best at their roles on one of the most competitve servers, still bring up this dumb argument, then you just might be crazy my friend.. Also, if anyone thinks that same rules apply to plat and chall games, then idk what to tell you tbh
Naaa I’d afk too. People don’t get to grief and waste my time. Wanna hold the game hostage that’s on you I’ll just close the game and play something else.
I don’t think anyone serious is going to say that the game was winnable due to the bard. Everyone can be sympathetic towards having to basically take a loss here because of one player. The issue is that going afk on principle is not something that should be encouraged. Idc what the game state is, you shouldn’t intentionally afk
I really wanna know, shy the hell not? Your point is probably something like always play to wun or some other bullshit, right? Well, there is a counter argument that Bard isnt trying to win aswell, since his pick is straight up weaker than any other top laner, and there are more effective tactics avaible.. Just think about it for a second, you get a malphite mid pick ehich is titally worthkess 0 prio whole game, and you get an Bard top, you basically are playing a 3v5 game with a hope that some random bullshit bard play will work. So, now that you hopefully atleast kinda understand the state of this game in specific, shy would he play it out when no one is trying to win?
His teammates affected the outcome of the game far more than his afk'ing did. Anyone who actually understood a word of what Nemesis said this video would know so.
@@SlavkoSef for starters, why play this game out at all when he could have dodged? When bot could have dodged? If the game was over from champ select, why did no one dodge? Secondly, as I’ve further looked into the issue, the bard player does actually play to win but does so with an unconventional strategy. Are we seriously going to say that anyone playing the game not the “right way” deserves to be banned or punished? And again, taking all of that as true, it is NEVER acceptable to intentionally afk. Like I’m sorry, there’s no way I want that to be the natural response to this.
@w1se_w0lf if you wanna take that pov fine, but that doesn’t absolve you of the consequences. Agurin should be hit fully with whatever penalties are applicable for afking. You play their game, you sigh their tos, you agree to their code of conduct
@@Goodheartless So, just to be clear, you would prefer me locking in yuumi top lane with cleanse and barrier but trying to win, rather than having me give up on a game after I TRIED everything that I can and giving up? And just because this playstyle doesnt break ,,summoners code" doesnt mean that its enjoyable or effective way to win, you could even argue that it kinda breaks it since you are playing the game at such an suboptimal level that its just not fun for anyone in your lobby. I mean no offense by saying this, but you probably have never played with Bardinette or Baus or disconnect (zilean top otp) or any of these guys, so trust me when I tell you games with these people are the most disgusting experience in the entire game, and in my opinion making gane insufferable for 9 other people should be an punishable offense.
I mean, I do absolutely agree that this game is completely over. Everybody is losing, the carries have no gold and the teamcomp is useless. However the thing that gets overlooked a lot in all of these situations, is that all of these huge streamers are rolemodels for large parts of the community. And that does not mean that every viewer just aspires to become as good as the streamer they are watching, but people also mindlessly copy every toxic behavior they find somewhat amusing. The first time I witnessed this was back in I think season 4 or 5, when Nightblue was about the most popular league content creator, and suddenly everybody started spamming CY@ whenever they did anything. But also other behavior trickled down. Stuff like L9 and Tyler1 made silver players think it is funny to run it down when a support got even a single kill. And especially Tyler1s popularity inspired a ton of streamers and youtubers to adopt an incredibly toxic persona, which trickles down to their viewers more than ever. So the thing with this situation now is, eversince the korea bootcamp everybody and their mom knows who agurin is. Everybody knows he is the goat of jungle. And so every jungle player that has even the slightest ambitions to improve their gameplay watches Agurin. And as you see from all the Reddit comments, most of them don't understand why this game is completely over and unplayable. All they see is Agurin raging at his teammates and then going afk. And so they imitate what they see. And they will go into their own games, see one death botlane, write ff, flame the botlane and go afk, ruining a perfectly fine game. Or they will try an invade, die because the enemy laners could move first, flame their own laners and go afk. And so on and so on. And with an in his case honestly reasonable decision, he has just doomed thousands of regular peoples solo queue games. And that is one thing, that except for Azzapp, no other streamer seems to understand or care for. And it is one big part of what is slowly destroying this game.
There is no way in hell anyone with a slightest ammount of critical thinking capabilities (anyone who can climb to higher ranks) or just a genuine wish to climb will ever copy this. If they copy this part of their behaviour, then they just never had a chance to improve to begin with. Take whats good, leave the rest behind, its one of the most basic principles of life.
If anything, Azzapp made the game experience worse for everyone by celebrating soft-inting. Unwinnable game? Just continue soft-inting, soft-griefing and internet neckbeards will cheer you on as you hold the game hostage and drag the game on an additional 20 minutes. Note how soft-inting was always a problem in league's history, but this is literally the first time it got so bad riot had to come out and placate the angry masses that something will be done soon™.
People don't understand that their negative actions affect their JUNGLER as well as their lane. If you give up kills, lack pressure in lane, pick weak strategies, and waste time, your JUNGLER is going to suffer. The enemy jungler gets to walk all over them, because they KNOW their team doesn't have the ability to stop them. Your junglers only option is to get a lucky gank, or try and counter invade, which will likely lead to their death if the opponents FED laners have half a brain.
There are 3 games in LOL that you need to know: low elo game high elo game competitive game remember: You are not high elo, you don't understand, in low elo, yes, maybe have 30-40% coming back, but in high elo, you are fked and can not do nothing, instead do sth else like watching other people streams like veija, coach kirei will be better. This game is already lose! You can not identify win condition and percentage of winning of this game let alone tell them to not AFK.
@@CatVyVo-pu8nd people who have this mindset think they're playing Counter strike or something. At some point, a game in League is pretty much 99% unwinnable in high elo (even less winnable in pro games) because of how far ahead the enemy is and how far behind you/your team are.
Yes if you queue up for a normal game, not a game that is obejectively lost and u are waiting for the end. He even tried to play it for as long as it wasnt over.
I think agurin is right because he knows that this game is lost but I think the bad part about his decision to afk is that he has many viewers and people who want to play like he does and this people maybe start afking in scenarios that are winnable now because they think "agurin would afk this so do I" that's the only thing I'm worried about.
People like you saying this makes me wonder if people even believe in free will. "Arguin quite a game that wasn't fun, he's helping league players learn to let go instead of obsessing over every win. Now silver players will be more at peace." The argument sound goofy when you don't believe it? That's cause it is if you don't inherently believe the subjective point you're assuming is true. Either way, don't make excuses for people who don't exercise their own free will and critical decision making
I got chat restricted for calling my teammates dickheads, because they did nothing when the enemy team had hecarim ivern with smite and jgl item and basically each of them had more cs than me in jgl and my teammates were like "oh why dont you gank, so useless" bro I am not gonna gank a renekton 4 levels ahead of me as lvl 4 wukong
I understand nemesis's perspective, and sometimes you get griefed and it sucks, but no excuse to afk. However i doing think he should get a more serious punishment just because he's a streamer. Everyone can get tilted. If he got punished by riots system it's deserved, but he shouldn't get extra punished or whatever
So...I think he still did wrong. But he definitely doesn't deserve an outright ban. I'd be ok with a suspension but he shouldn't get banned and nobody should be out for his throat 😅
He took a happiness break from teammates he couldn't stand. I imagine if he did this in a sport not filled with egotistical cry babies everyone would be like "shame and loser behavior but sometimes you get too upset at things going wrong. Walking away is the best choice opposed to a miserable and toxic game."
I don't care how well you perform or not in the game, the simple principle of playing out the game until you can finally surrender is what's important. Even if his entire team is inting: there is no valid excuse for quitting a match. Yes, his games are in high ELO where setbacks like the bard pick will just solo lose the game but I don't think anyone who watches him will care. High ELO streamers going AFK in matches sets a god awful precendent for players to do the same and if you're gonna make it part of your livelihood to play a game: follow the rules.
Slight addition: this is even more important due to a recent reddit post about what should be done to players who AFK matches and the consensus was to punish them severely. The community hates people quitting matches before they're over and I don't think we should start making excuses and exceptions for those who can't follow the main rule of "play to win". Have a stronger mental and play out the game even if it's lost, man literally ruined his ability to be taken seriously by the general community for the next few days.
@@thedailypersonsopinion2099 It's ranked tho. If you have that mindset then I guess people should play normals then. Ranked is for tryharding til the end, atleast that's how it should be treated imo.
Its spiralled out and Agurin just recognised ff doesnt need a timer it needs an acknowledgement that staistically the game is over and you can just agree with the system and concede and move on. A game state of 11-4 less than 10 minutes in at masters level would be an ff for almost any pro level team if it didnt have the likelihood of being over before the timer came up.
I mean I think it’s contradictory to say that the afk guy in your platinum matches should be banned but Agurin shouldn’t, yeah the game is worthless but then your argument is literally just he shouldn’t be banned because he’s Agurin, regardless of who’s afking it’s a punishable offense.
hes not arguing that agurin shouldnt be punished by leaverbuster or riot here, hes saying that it doesnt make agurin the bad guy and that it is morally absolutely justified
i get nemesis point of view. but imo going afk is just not the solution. once you q up for the game, play the game eventho it can be painfull. also i couldnt find pick orders BUT if he picked zyra and knew in advance that he will have no topside prio, its his fault aswell by picking zyra and getting fked
15:04 the balls to play the victim here. "I'm quite used to this type of behaviour sadly *sigh*". you mean people angry at your shitty coinflip cheese strat that forces them to play around you ? Shocker
Regardless of how justified the behavior is, it just teaches viewers that it's ok to afk their games too. He shouldn't abuse the afk system that's super lenient because it can't tell the difference between a dc or a legitimate afk by afk'ing. Yes, it was a pretty unwinnable game, but he could honestly just wait a few min then ff. A streamer getting away with stuff is just encouraging others to do it too.
I mean maybe, maybe not. But you have to also remember most steamers are literally playing a different game. Tutorial ends at D4, this is a Masters/GM game it’s completely different. Game is pretty unwinnable from this state. It’s not encouraging viewers to afk in their low elo games maybe if they were masters+ sure but if anything it’s also teaching them there are games you can’t win. It’s just impossible for the average player especially in Reddit lmao to make a 1 to 1 comparison of his game to theirs and be like “nah it’s winnable not even over yet just play”
the onus should be on Riot to fix the system for unwinnable games instead of on streamers to deal with the negative consequences of being lazy with the afk punishment system you can literally have teammates hold you hostage by afk waveclearing for 40 min then purposely give the nexus but you can't quit even if they admit to it in chat. it's a terrible system
I'll never understand people that play like Bardinette or Baus, where they just force their team to accommodate to their weird way of playing the game. If it was a rare occasion I would understand, but they play like this game after game, for years. What level of mental illness does it take to be like this? I don't agree with leaving the game because you can ff super early now, it's whatever. If they vote no, sure, understandable. But yeah that game was 100% unwinnable. Also agreed with nemesis that not even Baus playstyle is as bad as people who do shit like Bardinette (he's not the only one btw)
Except the fact the Baus’s playstyle(best case scenario) pulls the whole Topside on him while generating economy. Creates pressure on the map and enables your jungler to focus on the two other lanes and objectives while having perma prio for topside objectives. This bard(best case scenario) gets mid ahead, gets bot ahead, generates no economy toplane, creates the biggest 1v9 monster toplane,lose inhibitor min 15, gets your jungler pushed out of topside. Even Baus was forced to evolve his playstyle more to be playable with. This Bard does not. I guess there you have a reason why Baus is 700LP higher than this abomination.
Whether the game is winnable or not is irrelevant, by participating with 4 other teammates I would argue you have responsibility to play it out, unless the team decides to surrender. Even if the game is unwinnable, you are still playing with others who may not know or think otherwise, the argument "I can AFK because it's a waste of time", well now you waste their time, and you should be prepared to get banned.
he does not waste any time tho, he SAVES time for his team by doing that. U cant just say that the best jungle player in the world doesn't know when a game is lost and his random 500 lp bard top otp knows
@@shadowd9810 but it's not his decision to make whether the time is wasted for other players, it's theirs, and if they want to continue to play, he should too.
"bard and malph are afk while agurin is covering correctly" he's literally sitting afk on red buff and then doesn't even respond to the invade? What kind of takes are these HAHA
@@yihadistxdl951As a challenger player he should recognize that the bard isn't covering correctly and recognize that they can invade from the top side. He also went to type ff instead of flashing and trying to live. He's obviously tilted and not thinking properly. While I would also fall into the same trap doesn't make it right, it's solo queue and shit like this will always happen.
Mf never had the psychological development 5 yr Olds get where they realize others can know info they themselves don't know. Now he's here to admit it without realizing for us to laugh. Gotta give him points for being worth something ig
Yeah honestly sometimes its just better to leave the game. I used to afk games pretty frequently when I played top because sometimes Id fall so far behind that Id lost my team the game and I dont want to force them to stay and play it out when they can get less lp lost for my mistake
i get what you are saying but you just sound like the silver player that all of the redditors are talking about that saw him afk and thought " i can go afk if we are losing"
@@fklmrek437 I play at an elo where if I'm 0/3/0 down 50 cs to an Irelia with 11 cs/min playing Ryze top its legit better for my team for me to leave and save everyone like 5 lp than it is to play it out and get chain solo killed nonstop
@@fklmrek437 You critically misunderstood the video. I literally said in another comment that agurin's games are completely different than in your silver games. In silver sure, you have like a 20% chance of the enemy team all feeding shutdowns or something. This is especially true because his team can't get comeback gold. comeback gold is based off of the number of supports now (to remove top laners going support item). If a team has 2 supports they will get severely nerfed comeback gold.
@@meanderer9808 ok but what about my comment is wrong? you kinda just brought up meaningless points, if anything they support what i said so i guess you just read it wrong
League of Legend subreddits should have everyone profile picture is their rank in game. Therefore you can legitimately point out a Silver tell GM player how to play the game.
We all understand the game is over already and there's no point playing it out, but those aren't the rules. You must keep playing to win at all times (even if its likely not winnable). Its not that complicated. AFKing is against the rules therefore needs punishment. You cant pick and choose when the punishment is applied. This isn't a court were you plead your case. It may be stupid to you, you might think the rules are wrong but the point stands. AFK = punishment. No matter the context. DC'ing from power outages is still applied for god sake.
This is literally the kind of game state that would justify an open mid. There's no way you can come here thinking that going afk is the worst offense in this game unless you just don't have any context. People will watch these clips and take it as gospel, it's crazy. It's like a lot of the adc clips, sometimes it's fair to be upset and say adc is weak, a lot of the time it's a clip out of context and it's entirely reasonable.
So he lost in champ select? *How is that a justification to AFK?* By extension, anyone should be allowed to AFK with a suboptimal draft. You are queuing with random players, your consent to their strategies is not relevant unless they are griefing, and no, playing a champion you don't like does not count. Lets not forget that, even if you have a meta team comp, if you play jungle and all your lanes lose, you lose. If it wasn't for there being a Bard Top player in the game, *no one* would remotely care about Agurin going AFK, he would just be another League streamer throwing a tantrum. Bard did not make the other lanes lose in the first 5 minutes, he is not the main reason the game was lost. Going AFK before 15 minutes is more punishable, because unlike playing a champion you don't like, is legitimate griefing and sets a terrible precedent for other players that watch his streams.
This is a strawman, Agurin played the game properly and earnestly. Neither nemesis nor Agurin made the case to AFK due to the champ select screen, Agurin played the game normally and progressively got solf-inted by his midlaner, got lane lost (not trolled, nobody implied that) and any chance for a comeback gold got absorbed by champions that don't need gold to be effective. After top lane, midlane, and botlane lost Agurin was not even able to enter topside jungle anymore without having 3 people jump him. Nemesis made this crystal clear, and although Agurin may have a higher standard of conduct as a streamer, its also your responsibility as a watcher to not say bullshit and treat these streamers unfairly.
Truly refreshing to see someone speaking simple true facts, so depressing nowadays it feels like being surrounded by apes, how can emerald players even DARE to comment on GM+ lobbies, it's not even the same game
The issue is, the silver jungler that watches Agurin will then think it's fine to go afk when his top laner loses because 'he's getting griefed and there's no point in playing anyway'. Streamers are people who make money playing the game and have a big influence on how the community as a whole acts too, so they should absolutely be held to a higher standard. Just suck it up for a few minutes and take your money.
so.. when i get hostaged in a game for 40-50 min because enemy are too dumb or too malicious to finish the game.... i should just quit too? yeah i'd be banned by now. suck it up agurin YOURE GETTING PAID TO DO T HIS MAN. (no, i dont think quitting was morally wrong. just a low thing to do. for him, its content, for us "plebians" its just torture. we just want to have fun, he's there to get PAID. )
Idk, it doesn't matter if game is lost or not a streamer with high viewership shouldn't ever afk or troll, especially when it's a "watch me to improve and learn the game streamer" rather than "look at my quirky personality" streamer. Considering that many people watch agurin to improve in the jungle, I do believe that doing this will just promote less tolerant gameplay in the lower elos where the junglers will start thinking that they can afk because a few plays went incorrectly, when in reality it can be played. The game in this situation was very frustrating for agurin and I do not blame him for afking, I blame him for afking and showing that to gold 4 FredEvelynn1234 that will go afk after his toplaner solo dies lvl 2.
Yep same thoughts. Low elo people will see this and think they can go AFK once a game looks lost, the problem is in low elo games aren't lost even if its 0 kills to 15. It just teaches bad things imo.
how should someone improve by watching a clown fiesta in which a MALPHITE MANAGED TO DIE VS TRYNDA AT LEVEL 1 + Bard trolling? Is not worth for the watchers, and the streamer shouldn't be obliged to continue playing like the black men collecting cotton some time ago...
I think the only argument would be that you just shouldn't afk every, because there is a winning chance, however slim it is. The problem is that the higher Elo you get the less mistakes are made by the enemy that could allow such a comeback. This relies on them stalling out the game for quite a while, which is also time they are bleeding gold. Is this still very winnable in bronce, silver, gold, maybe plat? Definitely. There is just much more variance.
@@NemesislolClips need to watch more azzap. As reluctant as I was to agree with Azzap on it at this point I’m fairly convinced no matter the elo you are griefing if you ever ff a game.
Cool, you do you. "I don't care who you are, you don't tell others they're wrong for breaching your moral code if they're 100x your expertise" Don't agree? That's your argument structure. If this guy values his time more than his teammates, some mf in the comments can't cry if he spends it not being miserable. Like, do you think not knowing how to let go in a video game is a skill?
I think the problem is not him going afk but what that behavior does to the community and the type of influence. Angurin might know 100% that this game is lost and be 100% right but people that are lower ranks see this that don't actually know when the game is unplayable start afking because they are feeding and are not the main character on that game anymore and saying "This is unplayable'll afk". That is what the issue is here imo.
I agree. I don't think Nemesis realizes how much of a bad influence this behavior can have on people who look up to Agurin but don't understand the game as much. Players will emulate what he does, even when the situation is inappropriate.
You guys act like league players have no free will or critical thinking. How is it this guys fault when he makes a good choice if others with poor decision making make bad choices? He's not a teacher. He's not a role model. He's a fucking gamer for God sakes, he quit a toxic match instead of being toxic
Despite the terrible game state NO ONE should AFK EVER. Each player has the right to have a fair shot at trying to carry from a losing position. If you go AFK you should be reported, if you do it consistently you should be banned. This if you are Iron IV or Rank 1. The law should apply to all equally or to none at all. It’s as simple as that.
If we condone AFKing when 1 player thinks the game is lost we are opening a very dangerous door. Agurin went from a chill dude to someone shadowing his support (Paolocannone) because he didn’t like the way he was playing. The guy is just so full of ego and thinks he can act however he pleases because he is Agurin.
@@mrpulcio7724it so obvious ur low elo it reeks. “Carry from position” shut ur mouth that game was lost minute 1:20 fuck you mean carry from position. Its so pathetic to see low elos speak on how high elo works. If you were so good at the game why are you still stuck?
I love getting 3 and 4 man ganked by the enemy team in my jungle during my first or second clear, and no one in any of those empty lanes help or gets something out of it. This followed by the jungle diff spam. Like come on my guy, y’all have been shoved in all game, and your lane opponent just jumped me with jungle mid and support.
For whatever reason this is justified, you literally sign an agreement that you will try your best to play out and not afk in soloque. Just don't fucking AFK when you queue up.
@@Real.eKolinsave your mental? If league of legends is affecting your mental then you have issues, im playing in the same elo as agurin and i would deinstall the same second this shit game starts affecting my mental, learn to get on with games its soloq shit happens
@@Real.eKolinagurin is screaming literally at every missplay his team makes if game goes to be long, watch his stream idk why guy thinks world is about him only, there are players who are way better then him
Silver redditors who has no idea about how the game works should never speak. Ive also played with bardinette, one of the biggest hemoroids in high elo, i dodge him every time
Lemme tell ya something Riot said years ago: They dont punish people for griefing or being toxic ONCE or TWICE. Why? Because they know league is COMPETITIVE and things get HEATED; at the end of the day we are all HUMAN and once in a while people tend to lash out, rage or just AFK because they're tilted. Ive played this game for almost a decade (sadly) and ive never got a penalty even ONCE. Never went AFK and dont trash talk. However, one day i tilted because my support morgana was stealing farm on purpose, raged on her and went AFK. I got nothing. No penalty, even though they were spamming to report me. Why? Because Riot KNOWS i'm a decent player, and that i played their game like any normal human for YEARS, and that this ONE instance doesnt justify banning a years long honorable playe. Same thing with Agurin. He tilted and went AFK after a shit game, thats all. Hes not suddenly an inter or trash talker like old Tyler1 who deserves a ban, hes just human and lashed out.
Why is Nemesis explaining the entire in game state? That only clarifies how someone has a bad game, not justifies AFK/trashtalking. Giving up in a game is an extremely unsportsmanlike behavior no matter how bad the game is.
All of the high elo streamers (Dom, Nemesis, Veigar v2) who have responded to this thread have totally nailed it. And EVERYONE in the high elo community clearly fucking despise this bard OTP. Riot has made a game where you can often be stuck in a game that is quite literally unwinnable for 10+ minutes before you're able to forfeit, and even then you can end up getting hostaged and stuck for even longer. Agurin technically should not have AFKed but that doesn't mean it's not understandable behavior for the situation.
The point isn't that the game is lost and he "can't play" the point is what he is doing is pretty much telling everyone that is watching him(that is more than likely low elo player) that just because said game may be lost or because you think/know the game is lost it is ok to afk and ruin the rest of the game for everyone else. I am not saying that the bard's strat was not griefing or w/e but if you are not going to play the game out until a FF/game end then don't queue up. How is this any different than when the Janna top shit was meta?
The question the people for that think its okay to do it because agurin did it, have to ask themselves is; "Am I a multiple season challenger, have i gotten Rank 1 in multiple servers including the hardest in the world?" If the answer is no, then dont go AFK. He went afk because this is a master tier game and the game is obviously unplayable because players in high elo can and will snowball their lead and suffocate you until you lose the game, this will not happen as much in lower ranks
Flaming consistent PMA player for being griefed in high elo game is wild. Whatever silver-plat players do replicating high elo is not his problem at all, its frustrating to be in such game, but you will just move on and if you are not hardstuck 49wr player you will climb regardless of being trolled 10 games out of 100. As Neme said the truth is top ranked EUW player known for his skill and approach is being griefed by for fun player in high elo, there is literally no sense in being subjected to playing with a troll. Also it is preety obvious noone wants to play with a support top with a support item who tries to cheese game systems and regular lobbies are also open. I don't know if you had any experience with high ranked games but it is preety unrewarding being punished HARD by skilled players cause they leverage your troll teammate and not your mistakes as it should be
this clip is a bard lvl 4 as solo laner (same as pyke), team is still behind in kills even tho toplane is playing a roaming support and at the end you can see a ezreal 1vs2 kaisa + pyke. This just looks like the average open mid high elo games tbh.
I can't get how everyone is missing the actual point. It's not about if the in-game situation justifies agurin for afking and there's certainly no need to yap for 15 minutes explaining why it does. The point is that if - for absolutely ANY reason - you think it's justified, then what happens to the thousands of games and players that this reason applies to too. Who will be there to judge every single game that is "unplayable" for someone and justify him for afking? So it's not about nemesis's vs redditors opinion about what happens in-game. Its about having rules that stand for everyone no matter the situation because its simply not possible to judge everyone individually.
Your point holds no ground because if we talk about “in theory” here then there should be no reason in general for people to afk. You completely miss the whole point and jump to conclusions just like all the redditors also did
@@mihaialexandrulungu2681 I dont think I completely get what you're trying to say. I never talked "theoretically". It's a fact that everyone has games that are "unplayable" but there's just no way for riot to say "yea, you are right go ahead and afk and you will not be punished". Of course people have reasons to afk, but they shouldn't. Agurin sould be punished, just like everyone else. Also i dont really get how I jumped to any conclusions after literally writing a paragraph explaining my reasoning but ok lol
getting ganked by 3 man in your own jungle 3+ times in 10 minutes will make any jungle main consider opening their window for a talon E. That shit's the most depressing thing that's happened to me in league
och boy, this is the worst feeling. your camps stolen, you're dead with everyone collapsing on you, then after killing you and your camps they kill your overexteded mid and he flames you for being jg diffed XD
@@Thalaranthey precisely...roaming in league has become the most toxic,depraved,disgustingly horrible fucking thing and the only thing done in like 5 fucking years is remove mobis...cancer company,community and game
Idk I play mobile shit that can go thru walls and will concede a camp to live. Not complicated. Who gives a shit. I'm hyper competitive but I understand foe them to invade my jungle my laners get free farm and towers.
@@ethosterros9430 Except in that game they had perma roaming bard and inting malph mid. So no they were not losing anything for that invade.
If I was a toplaner and i get 3 manned all game. I just know my team gets extra space to play the game - why is nobody considering that?
Also worth mentioning that bard bought support item so his team will get significantly less comeback gold from having 2 supports
yeah wait what. they already made double sup item not even work after the seraphine sona shit
Also funnily enough, not taking support item and having 2 adcs nets same gold weirdly enough.
Saw it with a twitch kog bot once, not down on levels at all.
@KDHD.12 why would they be down in levels?
Redditors aren't human
@@liamedwards7656 redditors are the bottom of the food chain fr
AFK is reportable it's that simple. If your team plays to win and you stop trying to win then you deserved to get reported and possibly banned. How well your teammates do or your chance to win the game all entirely irrelevant. Long as your team is agreeing to keep playing you can't AFK, that's just how it is. Maybe they are delusional less than 1% chance to win for sure. Doesn't matter. You can't just AFK because you don't want to play, it's never been that way.
At no point in time has it been okay to AFK just because you think the game is lost, even if you are right. Like do you people actually think no matter what if you think the game is lost it gives you the right to AFK? Or is it only okay because he got "griefed" which define that, because he didn't. All his laners played to win, they just played poorly.
If you guys think this is not reportable. What's the difference between other random players AFKing because they honestly believe the game is over? You want your top laner to AFK because he lost lane and actually truly believes the game is over? Do only challenger players? Or only rank 1 challenger players get to AFK when ever? It's just a dumb argument.
@@JordianLoL redditor spotted
They ban humans
@@JordianLoL Iron 4 Redditor spotted, bro is drooling on his keyboard rn
Why are y’all making it sound like afking when getting griefed is the equivalent of shooting somebody ?
least insane league player
Who said that lol
Wat
Because it is 🤣
Because people love to blame victims
redditors saying agurin did the wrong thing when they would alt+f4 3 minutes into this game themselves
junglers mental:
Play like i want or i afk
Ofc and they are the type of people who hardstuck bronze to diamond and often trolls people because they are just bad and they think they are the best
@@KimiRaikkonen123 i mean, you too would be pissed if you had toplane bard taking all the team's gold
shit on junglers all you want, not my role, don't care, but i saw enough mentally deranged players myself to know that i wouldn't do, or at least feel much different in this situation
@@KimiRaikkonen123 isn't that what bard is doing? we would have to play around him like he wants or we just lose. wtf is this negative iq comment?
Idk, I play league for over 10 years now and neither I or my friends did ever intentionally go AFK. If you queue up for ranked league, you should always play it out imo, even if it's extremely tilting. If you can't keep your mental for a whole game, then maybe playing normal games is better.
Nemesis explains it perfectly yet there will be people who won’t understand it..
Game unplayable, go in jng and pretend to play and be afk there or be afk in base. It’s the same and reasonable.
Not really, nemesis is a bit delulu here, agurin could play a lot more than he did
do believe he flames bard or "bardinette" to much tho, sure its not optimal, but if you think you go into solo q and everyone play optimal, you live in a diffrent world. i have played tons of times with bardinette, and i dont like his playstyle, but i would rather have him then a normal ego afk midlaner zed /yasuo otp.
his botlane lost 2 vs 1, and 2 vs 2, at the end of the clip, youy see leona going top, and then ezreal is left for 2 vs 1, and still kills pyke and surives.
sure going afk is always bad, but if it was me, i proboly would had still played the game but wathcing a youtube clip on my second monitor, maybe just afk idk, probly afk haha. but yee, we see so much in social media that people get to a conclusion wihtout context which is awlays amazing :)
The issue is, the silver jungler that watches Agurin will then think it's fine to go afk when his top laner loses because 'he's getting griefed and there's no point in playing anyway'. Streamers are people who make money playing the game and have a big influence on how the community as a whole acts too, so they should absolutely be held to a higher standard. Just suck it up for a few minutes and take your money.
His take isn't great. Purposefully afk'ing isn't a great thing to do, regardless of how warranted it is.
@@bakamitai3462what can you do if you play zyra and cant clear anything b4 minute 2? My guys gold peaked and try to analyze a play which is not your elo obviously lol
Imagine having thanos and support living in your jungle, midlane getting fisted, and all the support characters stealing gold + exp for the entire game that's just unplayable for everyone. There is a difference between forcing your teammates to play around your pick and simply having an off meta pick that works independently from others.
Malphite dying to Trynda lvl 1 is worse than this bard
It's kinda fun, Bard consedes his lane to roam around and help his teammates, while Renek takes all the farm and still do the same - roams around and helping his teammates, I wonder when Bard's strategy actually gonna work..
This is not some noob griefer, its a master tier player. That strategy is good, as long as your mid and bot are competent at all. Jungling with bard top is such an advantage, as a "fed" renekton will still die to fed bot mid
@@rodofdiscordthatyouwillnev4810that strategy is good, as long as your bot and mid hard carries you
@@rodofdiscordthatyouwillnev4810 It literally doesn't work if the enemy mid, jungle, and top have a brain like they do in this clip
Also playing off meta and forcing 4 people to play the game by your rules or what ever you wanna call it its not the same thing at all.
Yeah, thats most cringe thing you can get. And you know what's funny? Random Timmy on Reddit who stack in emerald elo at most, played 12345 years ago with Soraka top and win this game would think that Agurin CAN and MUST win this (Like he's rank 1 EU and KR how he cant win??!??!?) Absolutly disgusting humnans playing this game and get promoted by Riot with their dgeneresy XD
If he at least played his lane normally the worst that can happen is he has a losing top side and loses krugs but with this bard just lets renekton have his jglers top side camps and the entire lane to himself, even if they somehow got ahead they'd be facing a monster fed 6 grubs renekton that cannot be stopped by anybody on their team
To the fucking guy learn to fucking read b4 posting. I'm fully aware he inted his jgler. That's why I SAID IF. But he didn't even lane top side so entire topside was unplayable fucking learn to read
@@omega4223 Yeah, keep ur eyes only on top XDD I smell ur low elo ass from a Mongolia
@@omega4223 I'm sorry, wrong person dm
That Bard player is a terrorist
Jungle main here climbed from hardstuck p4 to emerald within the last 2 weeks, felt the improvement happen in real time - but if enemy support is in my topside jungle for 5 out of the first 8 minutes and enemy top is deadbushing me because my top thinks he has to reinvent the wheel I'll just go and make coffee to save my mental for the day.
wise choice, don't let this game and the idiots get on your nerves, your mental worth better than that
Even if he was not AFK, with the way the game played out, he might as well be. The moment he was getting three manned in his own jungle with none of his laners responding, there is no way for him to gain gold or XP safely anymore (unless he shares XP with his team, or lanes toplane versus an accelerated Renekton).
exactly my point
Don't worry, Brand will simply keep farming 3 quadrunts for the rest of the game, while Zyra has to stick with one (so Brand will have 24 cs per full clear and Zyra 8), enemy top lvl8 5 plates first tower Renek and your top lvl4 bard 0 cs, winnable! XD
Redditors (mostly silvers) cosplaying this bard 95% of their games, that's why they bullying Agurin.
@@NemesislolClips Don't care doesn't matter. You don't deserve a career in streaming a game if you quit at 1:20 into the game. It's pitiful, suck it up.
@@NemesislolClips Forced to play around a certain strategy just because one player plays a certain way, and he shouldn't be able to do it? Sounds like a certain swedish sion enjoyer I know of.
@@blodtrstigindigo405 He at least plays relatively normal champions and actually lanes for the most part
Theres nothing to flame Nemesis for, theres no one to carry the game, just because you can come back your little silver games where everyone will random int it mid with 2k gold on them and no objective to even fight for doesnt mean the same happens here.
Except it does happen there. It happens all the time.
And anyways the main issue I think, and this isn’t really Agurins fault, every silver jungler will now think it’s reasonable to afk when one of their laners giga ints.
@wowitsfrostygames155 it is reasonable to afk when laners giga int. This game isnt overwatch or random six siege. The juice just isnt worth the squeeze in 99% of games. When your so behind why do you wanna spend 10 minutes avoiding enemy and trying to farm and praying and hoping your team doesnt just run it down again randomly instead of just going to the next game? Even if your team doesnt throw again thats still 10-20 minutes extra they made the game last by inting and you spend that time just trying to get EVEN with the enemy team. And most the time even if you do get even with the enemy they will have a better team comp and win anyways. Its just not worth it. So if people wanna hostage after throwing they will get a afk and its that simple. Accept your mistake you played bad in a hardcore snow balling genre of game with no chance of come back, move on gg next.
@@wowitsfrostygames155cause it fucking is. laners really just realise this now? so you didnt notice it until now? imagine top gets fucked, enemy jungle can freely invade at any point with NO FUCKING LANER HELPING WHATSOEVER. yes bro you can play the fucking game being 0-5 in lane, I been there, but you cant play jungle when you have inting afk laners who will NEVER help you defend your exp/gold. pls just play jungle for a month and then type ur thpughgts
@@WorldKeepsSpinnin that’s loser mentality. And that’s not how you improve. Not much left to respond to that. I’d hate to think of how much free Lp you’ve lost simply because you didn’t want to even try to win a game you self identified as unwinnable.
@@boyonthephone4331 this is barely even worth responding to tbh. You’re just mad you don’t know how to play in these games.
Easiest way to detect a lost game is when all their towers are 5 plates
i commented on this defending Agurin basically saying the same thing Nemesis said ( either my game analysis is pro-level or im just not r-worded) and was downvoted to hell. I dont know where reddit gets the gall to think they know the game better than the arguably best solo queue jgler in the world man...
The issue is, the silver jungler that watches Agurin will then think it's fine to go afk when his top laner loses because 'he's getting griefed and there's no point in playing anyway'. Streamers are people who make money playing the game and have a big influence on how the community as a whole acts too, so they should absolutely be held to a higher standard. Just suck it up for a few minutes and take your money.
@@Black3142 this is where I ultimately disagree: you cannot treat a silver game equal to a challenger game, it's just a different game even though it's still called "league of legends". in the past, opening games was a "strategy" used by high elo players as they were very good at recognizing when the games are lost and when they are winnable. we even see this in servers of korea and china, where they often times give up playing. obviously this doesn't mean they're always correct and it's not black/white, but the reality is that people will ALWAYS be influenced regardless and giving up in lost games should be acceptable in master+ as it has a lot of benefits.
yeah but u have to consider using your own critical thinking and understand why he did it. if u just assume that people are gonna copy him no matter what then the problem is not agurin but people just copying a streamer for no reason. Like baus enjoyers in the toplane you cannot blame him for people in low elo copying his strat and failing but just the silver player being dumb and not understanding the strategies well
@@weylyn_luke8972 Yeah it is people's fault but after thousands of years of developing civilizations we KNOW FOR A FACT that people will keep doing stupid shit. That's why there are laws that say you HAVE TO wear a seat belt while driving and fines when you don't.
Footbalers are held to a high standard when it comes to hate, racism or other stupid shit, we should keep our League streamers to similar standards in order for the entire community to be better.
@@NemesislolClips People who watch Agurin represent the entire lol community, you can't persuade me that it's not a bad thing they see that shit happen, then misinterpret it (because as you say, they're playing a different game) and do it in their games.
Footbal players, actors, musicians, they all have to be wary of what they do and say because that's their social role. Whether Agurin wants it or not, he has an influence over the entire LoL community and doing that shit makes the community objectively worse.
i was "pleasant" enough having played with bardinette like 4-6 times last year and holy shit was i misserable when he was in my team and happy when he was in enemy team.also how is this guy not banned yet everytime we got into game everyone said before the game even started to agree on reporting him.realy no clue how this is still allowed.
Hes a hemoroid, i went top to clear a stacked wave and then he came to my lane to grief as a punishment
Support players always go unpunished no matter what they do. I swear there is a system that if you lock in a classified support champ, the system is restricted from banning you.
I know it's disgusting, but I once limit tested this. Didn't get banned. I queued Varus support and took all the farm to see if I can get restricted. Did that for 10 games and nothing happened. Made sure to stay 10 cs per minute and take every kill.
Then I queued Leona support and ran it down. Averaging around 17 deaths per game for 10 games. Again, nothing happened.
So as long as you queue support or in this case with Bardinette, support champions, you can't get banned for nothing. Fuck Riot
He's the lp he is because of the way he plays. If he would be intentionally feeding then he wouldnt be masters. A 500lp master player with the weirdest strategy on earth is still equivalent to an average toplaner whos 500lp master. Your teammates are literally the same strength, no matter how much you hate the strategy or complain, it is as effective as getting a regular teammate on your team...
@@BigSources I don't know about average top laner. Someone who decides to not lane and just gank mid and bot, leave top for enemy top lane to get full platings and full minion waves, is DEFINITELY NOT the same as average.
I mean he managed to climb on it so he definitely has a right to be there.
There's also the Yuumi top Grandmaster player or the River Ivern top.
Nobody cares about Toplane anyway and Renekton falls off late. I do have to agree that Agurin's teamcomp is bad.
I think Agurin has way better knowledge of the game than little Billy on reddit trying to get out of Iron. Bro reached challenger on the Korean server.
rank 1, 1400lp+
hes hit rank 1 on like every server hes tried hasnt he?
and rank 1 on the chinese superserver which is even more impressive
Agurin reached rank 1 Korea 1568lp or something. I was tracking his opgg during that time
@@yihadistxdl951 wait when did he play on CN??
Ive played with bardinete on my team once and even tho we won, the gameplay made me want to jump out of the window of my neighbors 5th floor, its so low quality and annoying.
Same thing happened when twitter tried to cancel Dr.Ututt for going afk on kayn, while having yuumi smite mid.
Yeah I think that player that posted it is on his team
Le epic Reddit "just go botside" as if enemies can't just follow him there after eating his topside??
Reddit is like that across everything
One stage insect thinking
The difference between Agurin and low elo players is that when Agurin thinks the game is lost he's probably right, while in low elo people go afk in winnable games thinking it's lost. So if you are a low elo player watching Agurin and trying to copy him you will unintentionally grief. That's what's wrong with the situation, he may be right but is setting a bad example by streaming it to people who couldn't make calls like that correctly. It's just bad to be a streamer and afk.
Stop sucking up to random people. Get a grip of your live
or your silly ass doesnt pick bard top in a ranked game. how about that? I still dont get how people dont understand that afking 95% of the time is the fault of a team mate who decided to first time an off-meta pick. if you dont want me to afk play a fucking normal champ or go 8-0 so your useless pick can at least be not useless
Agurin the philosopher, Agurin the life coach, Agurin the role model, Agurin the leader, Agurin the messiah: deliverer of gospel. Or is he just a dude that plays video games and clicks „start stream“. Maybe you should start demanding people have some semblance of fkng autonomy instead
like u need to understand why he did it. if people just copy paste what he does without no matter the reason then the problem is not agurin but people copying him. he should never be accountable for what people do because they do not understand the situation...
@@kurt-o0o This is pretty much a "straw man" argument. Saying Agurin is probably better at recognizing a lost game is completely reasonable, and stating that doesn't even require you to like him as a streamer or player. It shouldn't be unclear to anyone who isn't delusional. Of course he isn't perfect in every aspect like who is? And it's very common in low elo that players think a game is lost even when they are actually in a very good spot. They either:
A: Don't understand the game, so their view of the game state is biased by that, or
B: Are delusional and think their rank is so good that if the enemy gets a 7k lead, for example, they will end the game correctly without making mistakes. In reality, you can delay almost any low elo game to at least 30 minutes just by pushing waves.
Nemesis more tilted about Agurin's game than his own games :>
As a jungle main for few years I can tell - having 3 hard loosing lanes is the worst thing that you can face as a jungler. You can be better jungler than ur opponent, invade or even solo kill him, make few successful ganks, take some objectives when enemy top or bot is basing but then it's nothing you can really do and the further game goes on, the less influence you have. The only way to win these games is to take hard carry jungler like Rengar, be much better player than all your opponents and constantly kill them so your teammates can take their free lanes and actually do something
Watched the video. Going back for seconds. This Bard (after reading comments) benefited greatly from name hiding. No one would give him this champ if they knew from team ban.
The even worse problem is if you ban bard he will hard int your games. Look up his win rates on the champs he picks when bard is unavailable. He does the same dogshit strat with 20% win rates just on illaoi and malphite. He’s literally the definition of rapist gameplay, forcing your team no matter what to play his way.
In games like this, League should introduce a same system like Dota. When levels and gold aren't comparable and the game state isn't competetive due to trolls or afks, you should be able to leave the game for free. Any modern game lets you leave the game if you have trolls or afks. This game hasn't.
Bard is down 3 levels, thousands of gold, but who gets punished in the end? Zyra. So unbelievably stupid.
How do we ensure the a player is leaving for justified reasons?
One could easily say their teammates made the game impossible when it was actually themselves.
Manual review would be necessary. And if every player could access the system, the backlog of game reviews would be too large to get through.
I like the idea, but it doesn't seem possible to implement.
@@drjamaymay405 When it is literaly implemented in Dota, the competitors product? Well how do they do it then.If they can do it, there is a way. It's not about seeking the optimal solution, it's providing one and improving it.
@@yoshi596 i am not familiar with how dota does it. I am impress they managed to do it tbh. that seems like an extremely difficult process to get right.
@@drjamaymay405 SO? is Riot Games, they have enough money to get the tecnology and people to implement it, it's just that they know that the average LoL enjoyer are stupid and nolifers, so they'll never implement it
You do not understand. Glue drinking trolls with smooth brain will stop to buy skins or even extinct in League. And RIOT have some unexplainable love for this part of playerbase. So any system which can apply pressure in them will never be implemented.
I think there's another element to this. Beyond this being a completly lost game where only chance at victory is enemy team giga inting, its just not fun ? I dont watch Agurin but i dont get how would anyone wanna watch the guy go full clearing while getting fucked by 3 people (you are basically non factor at that point = AFK) I would rather see him do anything else at that point. Also the fact that you are streamer doesnt mean you cant go afk, sure you can and its on Riot to do the punishment, shit ton of players go afk in my games daily after running it down but thats not an issue but when Agurin(granted he wasnt even inting at all and was just pissed) did it it is ? Everyone's gonna forget this incident in few days and i just dont see peopl going afk "because Agurin did it" - If you are gonna go afk you are gonna go afk for a reason, this at best is an excuse.
Its reasonable for Aug, but NOT for the countless other players who are going to view this and think they are qualified/experienced enough to make this choice and feel confident in it.
As Nemesis said its just reddit low elo players misunderstanding the situation which is exactly why its bad. Logically its understandable but its about upholding the "principle" and that should be punished.
If you afk you should be punished no matter what because not doing so opens up so many more holes.
Thie doesn't mean he needs some extreme punishment he should be treated like any other player.
Would agree with this in the case of Riot acutally caring about making SoloQ a better place (punishing afking, soft griefing etc etc). the reality is that ultimately they don't give a shit evident by many years, as what Agurin did this game is nowhere near as bad as what his team did, but everybody just focuses on Agurin
@@NemesislolClips That's fair. I was mostly looking at this from a community perspective. Riot does a poor job at actually handling things like this correctly.
My only concern is really how the community themselves will use this to fuel their bad takes.
Hello, i'm the Toplane Turret.
As you can imagine, i'm quite used to this type of behaviour sadly.
What bothers me most is that agurin is a player i've always liked to have on my side, but he cant protect me every game.
Sadly, my laner abandones me every game, which is even worse in this game in particular.
I can understand the frustration. Bardinette is an OTP that warps the game in a way that forces everyone to play around his weird (lacking) playstyle without their consent.
If you have ever played Zyra Jungle you know it is an early game focused, high economy jungler that needs to be ahead or at least even in terms of cs to still be relevant.
If you would take more then 60 seconds and actually watch the entire game, you can see that draft is pretty horrible, because there are only 2 ppl in this game that can actually use gold (Zyra and Kaisa) but the few kills my team gets land on Bard and Pyke. Agurin got invaded on over and over and baited the enemy team into bad plays multiple times.
Yes sure he can surrender his top quadrant but how does he play the game from there on? Is he just supposed to clear Wolves, Blue and Gromp over and over until the game is finally done? Enemy Team has a Trynda that got a random kill lvl 1 into Malphite (which is illegal btw) so Trynda has Tiamat (thus prio) from min 5 onwards. Also, they have noone to stop him in midgame from taking turrets. Its simply a lost game. No matter what he does will result in the same outcome.
Have some respect for your time and also the time of your teammates. Move on from games that clearly arent winnable/playable. Noone is having fun in this game anyways.
Thank you Toplane Turret
Bro i thought thia was going to be a joke like : its true i was there i was the top lane turret xd
I've seen people afk for less in gold games LOL
As a jungler, this is tilting the fuck out of me. I would absolutely hate to be that zyra.
As any laner in this game I would hate ho have this Zyra on my team. I'm a jungle main but even I can't defend Agurin on this.
@@onam3000 doing tricks on it
@@onam3000 As any laner I would hate to have you on my team
I agree with the points but at the end of the day, going AFK is against the rules. It is what it is. Those rules may not always make sense, but you can't introduce a level of ambiguity that would require a panel of high elo players to judge if it was justified or not.
Yeah i think Agurin understands its, its more annoying how people insta go on reddit and making such posts for karma farming
you're right.
i hate how strict people are with AFKing but that's the rules afterall. Personally I dislike trying to play a lost or frustating match and I rather surrender because I'm not having fun, but that's playing normal games, ranked challenger games can't have this excuse
Sure, then he will get whatever penalty Riot decided to punish AFKers with (which I think is LP loss and some short queue timer). People are calling for him to be banned for two weeks. Those are surely the same, kappa.
and he stated on twitter that he got punished by riot and he expected to get punished by riot and still knowingly went afk
Would also afk here until 15 if I get inted by a fking bard top and the game is over
lol is one of the rare games where you often hate your teammates more than the enemy players
This proves that the game itself has a problem, and that it's not really the fault of the players contrary to what riotgames wants us to believe
@@flvrm57 thats not really a problem. competitive team games are always like this and the only fix is if its possible for every champion to be capable of 1v5ing at some point in the game, and thats just not realistic
Need people to go flame the irons writing those comments on the reddit thread, they are still typing with no context mindblowing
non-meta pick and a bad game made you afk? how is that not griefing?
@@UltimatePiccolo it's a game action where you can't play anyways that made him afk, not just the fact of having a non meta pick or a "bad game", why do idiots not understand such a simple thing
fortunately you don't live in Korea where it's normal for pros to ff at 10 minutes or open mid even before that because the game is unplayable anyway
you are not challenger players, it is sure that you cannot understand, your low elo games are comebackable even if there is 0/20 at 15 minutes
and that is NOT from agurin responsability to educate people on the difference between challenger games and low elo games
after a while go fuck yourself if you're not happy about it , contrary to what you think, he doesn't owe you anything
@flvrm57 griefing is griefing. "Koreans do it too" is not an excuse.
He died at the start writing ff 15 and you defend it ? Ist such a Bad mindset for a very high elo pro player to have After only giving a Single kill. I only Expect thies from mental weak low elo Players And you cant Tell me that you really think that a mindset like that does Not affect your gameplay at all.
There is a reason why high elo Players that give coachings Talk about the mindset and how to Look at the Game to have the best view to win.
yeah, like Tyler1 right??
@@rpscorp9457no he is not top 10 every Season and he does not play in proplay.
He always was toxic in the past and softinted or was afk Agurin never was known for that.
While I agree that the game is pretty much lost, especially in a master tier lobby where they know how to close out games, you still need to go through the motions and play till 15 minutes. If we start agreeing that it is okay for a player to AFK in games that are over, we then start arguing over when a game is truly "over" and at what elo it is acceptable to afk because the enemy team won't throw. But yes, in this particular game Agurin is fucked and can't play at all.
Should he be punished? Idk. Do players get punished after afking 1 game? Probably not. He might get a warning if its his first time doing it and a lower que priority.
thats exactly what they do in korea (talking about masters+lobbys) ff 10 , open mid when its obvious loss, and go next quick
guess what, they are the best league of legends country
maybe we should considere that then they probably are right and see it is a way to save mental health ?
We need to ask Azzapp it is simple as that.
there should be a rule in the subreddit where you only allow to voice an opinion when you are higher or same elo as player in post.
The last time i checked the summoners code applied to everyone, so why shouldnt people be allowed to have an opinion on someone going AFK
@@Firerider5 opinions can be wrong, and extremely counterproductive. if you are incapable of understanding something your opinion is worthless, and the opinions of bronze players about winnable game states in challenger is laughable. even if its a bronze's opinion of another bronze player, youre trying to ascend out of bronze, so why listen to something another bronze has to say?
@@booperdee2 That is like saying you are not allowed to vote unless you you have a Ph.D, because you arent smart enough to make a choice. League is still a game, the opinion and feelings of EVERY player are valid. Which is why riot doesnt just balance for the top 0.001% of the game. Every player is a potential customer, so your opinion is valid. Does the bronze guy have more game knowledge? No. Does the rules that Riot created apply to everybody, no matter the rank? YES!
As someone who played jungle at all back in season 10, I can tell you this is one of the worst experiences imaginable, having zero priority in your jungle so early means you will be permanently down camps and the enemy jungler will easily snowball over you as you have almost no safe camps to take while you lose top turret so quickly.
Its like playing a 4v5. Its hopeless. You may as well afk if enemy team has actual brain cells at this point to abuse the zero priority toplane.
I really dislike agurin, i hate listening to him, hate his attituide, hate his playstyle, hate his personality. I REALLY wanna agree with reddit on it, but hes kinda right. That being said i do not condone afking in game, i'd prefer he afk farmed. But even as a peron who pretty much never ff's i'd ff this one. Being bullied as jungler outside of jungle is one of the worst feelings league can provide
I agree with the later points u make, but having so much hate for someone u dont know personally and no one forces u to watch shows how chronically online you are.
@@realVIITA i dont watch him. I learned of him via neme tournament like 2 weeks ago. Then visited his stream to see if hes just as insufferable on his own. He is.
Theres no "so much hate" theres just many reasons to dislike him. Its not that deep. It doesnt brother me. But at the moment im somewhat "forced" (VIA watching neme or druty) to see agurin i'd prefer not to see/hear him.
Cheers, sad brother.
@@Thalaranthey Im not and hoping ur doing great too. all i referred to was u listing things u hate about him while admitting u dont watch him. especially when druttut and neme were rly hated players in highelo for a long time too for being toxic. every streamer is being watched for different reasons and agurins viewers mainly watch him cuz he is arguably one of the best SOLOQ junglers worldwide. and in that clip it was basically in chess terms: Magnus Carlsson sees mate in 5 and resigns. I didnt see it and think he is trolling. No disrespect intended, stay blessed.
@@realVIITA well i cant see a reason to watch agurin, from what i gathered theres plentiful better junglers.
I had no idea neme and drutt were hated despite watching them somehwat regularly for last few years(like at least 1 vid/1-2months).
You sure you didnt just sit on some hate reddit forum?
AAAAAAnd if you didnt understand i literally agreed with agurin there despite my dislike for the dude.
During the tournaments there was no 5head strats from him, hes just extremely selfish player which is rather a good thing for soloq, but not for more cooperative enviroment. Thats why they played a lot better in later matches when he adapted. But sadly he was still bitch about it so no redeption arc
@@Thalaranthey yes they were, just like the pro "jensen" for example who even was banned in euw. once his ban got lifted he went pro.
Redditors are smthg else.
And yea i get what ur saying about agurin and hes rly whiny and hard to listen too sometimes, but facts over feelings he is multiple times in different seasons rank 1 euw and was korea rank 1 aswell and created the jarvan meta on that server by himself. not trying to be disrespectful but can u name those few better junglers?
Stay blessed
I find it funny how bard is not to blame by majority of league community but when singed support was taking place, everyone jumped at him.
I think most people would agree the game was practically unwinnable but thats not an excuse to afk. You queue for comp, you play to win. If you want to stop playing you ff (now easier than ever 4v1). There cannot be a double standard for anyone with regard to this. Low elo noobs can decide a game is unwinnable and afk and be rightfully punished (lol riot useless never happens) but its okay if high elo player does it? As long as the game is not over you haven't lost yet, quitting should never be tolerated. Murdering a criminal is still murder. Quitting in a losing game is still quitting.
Also bard should be punished for grieving you queue top you play in the toplane.
With the way the game played out, he was practically worse than AFK.
Unless doing nothing somehow actually adds to your chance of winning it’s better to try and screw up in the process
No. Lol. I mean your statement is so stupid you should be able to figure out why its so dumb on your own. Go play a couple ranked games, you will understand eventually. Tip: theres a thing called being held hostage. Theres more then just that but getting into it with someone this delulu probs isnt worth
“You’re wrong because you’re stupid” isn’t even an argument you’re just shouting at a wall
@heyjustchillin like i said you will figure it out on your own, i mean you probably already know what you said is completely wrong but you just want attention and to waste someones time
9:52. Azzapp be like: Winnable!
Agurin and the other 4 players on his team had the choice to dodge he decided not to, why should he be allowed to go afk, once you enter the game you play it until the end or you ff, if you dont want to be "held hostage" dont enter the game, not every game is winnable but that doesn't mean you should show this as an example of what to do when you think the game is lost, is sad that it happened but this just gives griefers validation for going afk in low elo matches.
it is the same to afk at towers at that point and wait for the game to end as it is standing in the fountain. it's not that hard to understand, the reality is that if you want to endorse punishment, then agurin should not be the only one experiencing it, as what his teammates did is worse
Just dodge when Lionl9 or a copycat of his get into your next promo game, with their alternative strategy.
you cant know what players will do until the game starts. Disco Nunu will threaten to do things to try to avoid having to dodge the game themselves
Anyone can decide the outcome doesn’t matter, doesn’t mean you are right.
All I see here is a very high elo player advertising to their generally low elo audience that its okay to afk if you deem the game unwinnable and that you are 100% in the right to do so without punishment if you specifically didnt make horrible misplays. Nemesis would probably argue that low elo players are too stupid to know when a game is truly unwinnable and therefore only extremely intelligent high elo players (but not any of Agurin's teammates ofc) can make that expert decision.
Regardless if its correct or not, its no different than people complaining about Baus making the “inting sion” playstyle popular and ruining low elo games even if it works in his high elo games. Plenty of silver / gold players will now think its acceptable to afk because Nemesis said its okay to a wide audience so long as the game cant be won (which is a subjective decision).
tell me u didnt watch the video without telling me
@@majseketin2280 I've literally watched the entire video, but if i missed something Nemesis said that contradicts my comment id love to know because id be much happier if that wasnt the message being conveyed to the general league playerbase.
@@RagePlaysGames yea he said its viable to give up masters+ not any elo
@@majseketin2280 Tried re-watching to find where he says the "afk when game is lost" strategy should only be done by Masters+ players and/or not be done by low elo players, but couldnt find it. Care to share timestamp?
@@RagePlaysGames Didn't catch him saying it in the video, but it's in the reply to the comment by @trooperscientists2000
I'll just copy what I said under the Agurin video regarding the genius advice to "just dodge the game bro":
The people saying just dodge the game to have a choice should get matched with Lionl9 for their next promo matches...
It is just an alternative strategy after all.
Anyone with common sense knows that since top side is basically gone 24/7 and he goes bot side then they can just collapse on him there because his bot is feeding and the enemy mid is fed as well. Renekton is just vibing taking tower while bard is doing fuck all.
Even if agurin invades all it takes it one ward and boom dead again. He has one section of the jungle. And on a power farming jungler at that.
yep the morons on reddit are saying "just go botside" like brother zyra is a power farming jungler that needs gold to scale, you cant give up 50% of all your resources and expect to play the game. now some genius will say that he can invade but he cant because they literally just put 1 ward on the botside jungle of blue side here and if zyra ever crosses river they 3-4 man collapse on her and kill her immediately
If anything, he did his teammates a favor by saving them 2 lp for leaver loss mitigation XD
Afk should be punished thats its making exclusion due to being high elo just isnt right
AFK is punished It’s a 1 minute queue lol I’m sure it was worth it
@@MrJoseph308 this is a discussion of wether or not a punishment should be issued.
the severity of that punishment is a different topic.
@@drjamaymay405 no he’s saying that he didn’t punished because he’s high elo which is just false. Alf punishments are automated so it doesn’t matter what elo you’re in. He probably never afks so he didn’t get punished.
why not? the margin for error in higher elo is much smaller than in lower elo, to the point where having a SUPPORT BARD TOP LANE morphs the game in such a way that you're not playing the same game anymore.
I genuinely love videos where you explain everything from a challenger's perspective
Whether or not someone "is allowed to" afk isn't decided by anything Nemesis says here. The point is that it should NEVER be in a SINGLE player's decision whether he stops playing or not. It should always be a team decision (aka surrender vote). The reason for that is that it's almost impossible for a banning agent to determine whether going afk is somehow justified or the right call, so we just have the choice of looking IF someone was afk. It's a matter of principle, even if I agree it's a disgusting game for Agurin and he got done really dirty here. Unbelievable that we're trying to set a precedence for when a game is so lost you can just individually decide you're done. If you can't handle being in these games for 10-15 minutes, touch some fucking grass.
then should be a team decision if he wants to play with grief strategies in his games... idk a lot of people got banned for those type of strategies(nubrac and such) so don't say bullshit
Petition that any Player below Master shouldnt be Even allowed to Share their opinion since they dont understand even 10% of that Problem
@@600apmgod8 I am (low) masters, besides what you are arguing for is known as "call to authority", which in philosophy is considered a fallacy or dirty rhetoric trick. The value of an opinion needs to be based on their own merrit, not on who gave them. Of course, informed people are more likely to have more valuable opinions, but informed individuals can be wrong and the other way round.
I don't think you understand the first or second thing of competetive integrity. Bard, Malphite and Pyke this game haven't shown that they are playing their best and made very poor decisions in what is called high elo. This ruins the competetive integrity of the game down to zero. If ranked environments aren't competetive your standard morals fly out of the window. So keep them where they are, in your brain and out of comment sections. Such useless input
@@yoshi596 It's not their fault that Agurin is a R1 player and expects others to play on that level dude. Making poor decisions is something completely different than AFKing or trolling. It hast literally nothing to do with competetive integrity as long as they are trying to win, which at least Bardinette is doing. And again, none of this is for the individual to decide. This is the entire reason we have this ff mentality in the game rn where every other game is decided by the one guy mental booming and trolling/AFKing/soft inting. Just like Agurin is doing here. He is part of the problem and so are you, from what you wrote..
Finally i can go afk and not get banned like agurin
Idk, i don't think afking is ever justified, no matter how lost the match is. That behavior is inherently looked downed upon and a reportable offense. It's common sense, it just gives the wrong message to other players watching too. If the vast majority is against you than maybe you are the one who's wrong
they were going to ff at 15 anyways, him afking just let them ff 2 minutes faster. it made zero difference to the game whatsoever, i just dont see how its not justified
If you, after 2 challenger player who are probably both best at their roles on one of the most competitve servers, still bring up this dumb argument, then you just might be crazy my friend.. Also, if anyone thinks that same rules apply to plat and chall games, then idk what to tell you tbh
Naaa I’d afk too. People don’t get to grief and waste my time. Wanna hold the game hostage that’s on you I’ll just close the game and play something else.
jesus, guess im crazy and retarded then. thank you nemesis fanboys who cant think for themselves
before watching video. afking should be ban no matter what.
yeah just ban everyone even the people watching shit game shit ideas like play normal league. fuck bard top, fuck lux support fuck it all
I don’t think anyone serious is going to say that the game was winnable due to the bard. Everyone can be sympathetic towards having to basically take a loss here because of one player. The issue is that going afk on principle is not something that should be encouraged. Idc what the game state is, you shouldn’t intentionally afk
I really wanna know, shy the hell not? Your point is probably something like always play to wun or some other bullshit, right? Well, there is a counter argument that Bard isnt trying to win aswell, since his pick is straight up weaker than any other top laner, and there are more effective tactics avaible.. Just think about it for a second, you get a malphite mid pick ehich is titally worthkess 0 prio whole game, and you get an Bard top, you basically are playing a 3v5 game with a hope that some random bullshit bard play will work. So, now that you hopefully atleast kinda understand the state of this game in specific, shy would he play it out when no one is trying to win?
His teammates affected the outcome of the game far more than his afk'ing did. Anyone who actually understood a word of what Nemesis said this video would know so.
@@SlavkoSef for starters, why play this game out at all when he could have dodged? When bot could have dodged? If the game was over from champ select, why did no one dodge?
Secondly, as I’ve further looked into the issue, the bard player does actually play to win but does so with an unconventional strategy. Are we seriously going to say that anyone playing the game not the “right way” deserves to be banned or punished?
And again, taking all of that as true, it is NEVER acceptable to intentionally afk. Like I’m sorry, there’s no way I want that to be the natural response to this.
@w1se_w0lf if you wanna take that pov fine, but that doesn’t absolve you of the consequences. Agurin should be hit fully with whatever penalties are applicable for afking. You play their game, you sigh their tos, you agree to their code of conduct
@@Goodheartless So, just to be clear, you would prefer me locking in yuumi top lane with cleanse and barrier but trying to win, rather than having me give up on a game after I TRIED everything that I can and giving up? And just because this playstyle doesnt break ,,summoners code" doesnt mean that its enjoyable or effective way to win, you could even argue that it kinda breaks it since you are playing the game at such an suboptimal level that its just not fun for anyone in your lobby. I mean no offense by saying this, but you probably have never played with Bardinette or Baus or disconnect (zilean top otp) or any of these guys, so trust me when I tell you games with these people are the most disgusting experience in the entire game, and in my opinion making gane insufferable for 9 other people should be an punishable offense.
The ranked system is already horrible for players who are not challengers, so I can't even imagine for those who are
I mean, I do absolutely agree that this game is completely over. Everybody is losing, the carries have no gold and the teamcomp is useless.
However the thing that gets overlooked a lot in all of these situations, is that all of these huge streamers are rolemodels for large parts of the community.
And that does not mean that every viewer just aspires to become as good as the streamer they are watching, but people also mindlessly copy every toxic behavior they find somewhat amusing.
The first time I witnessed this was back in I think season 4 or 5, when Nightblue was about the most popular league content creator, and suddenly everybody started spamming CY@ whenever they did anything. But also other behavior trickled down. Stuff like L9 and Tyler1 made silver players think it is funny to run it down when a support got even a single kill. And especially Tyler1s popularity inspired a ton of streamers and youtubers to adopt an incredibly toxic persona, which trickles down to their viewers more than ever.
So the thing with this situation now is, eversince the korea bootcamp everybody and their mom knows who agurin is. Everybody knows he is the goat of jungle. And so every jungle player that has even the slightest ambitions to improve their gameplay watches Agurin. And as you see from all the Reddit comments, most of them don't understand why this game is completely over and unplayable. All they see is Agurin raging at his teammates and then going afk. And so they imitate what they see. And they will go into their own games, see one death botlane, write ff, flame the botlane and go afk, ruining a perfectly fine game. Or they will try an invade, die because the enemy laners could move first, flame their own laners and go afk. And so on and so on. And with an in his case honestly reasonable decision, he has just doomed thousands of regular peoples solo queue games.
And that is one thing, that except for Azzapp, no other streamer seems to understand or care for. And it is one big part of what is slowly destroying this game.
There is no way in hell anyone with a slightest ammount of critical thinking capabilities (anyone who can climb to higher ranks) or just a genuine wish to climb will ever copy this. If they copy this part of their behaviour, then they just never had a chance to improve to begin with. Take whats good, leave the rest behind, its one of the most basic principles of life.
but he actually hepled the team mates by giving them +5 LP for staying afk such a wholesome guy
If anything, Azzapp made the game experience worse for everyone by celebrating soft-inting. Unwinnable game? Just continue soft-inting, soft-griefing and internet neckbeards will cheer you on as you hold the game hostage and drag the game on an additional 20 minutes.
Note how soft-inting was always a problem in league's history, but this is literally the first time it got so bad riot had to come out and placate the angry masses that something will be done soon™.
People don't understand that their negative actions affect their JUNGLER as well as their lane.
If you give up kills, lack pressure in lane, pick weak strategies, and waste time, your JUNGLER is going to suffer. The enemy jungler gets to walk all over them, because they KNOW their team doesn't have the ability to stop them.
Your junglers only option is to get a lucky gank, or try and counter invade, which will likely lead to their death if the opponents FED laners have half a brain.
Donsent matter who you are. YOU CANT AFK! Silver Bronze or Challanger. You queue up for a game and you play it out
Thank you, if you get griefed report them, don't promote this behavior.
There are 3 games in LOL that you need to know:
low elo game
high elo game
competitive game
remember: You are not high elo, you don't understand, in low elo, yes, maybe have 30-40% coming back, but in high elo, you are fked and can not do nothing, instead do sth else like watching other people streams like veija, coach kirei will be better. This game is already lose! You can not identify win condition and percentage of winning of this game let alone tell them to not AFK.
@@CatVyVo-pu8nd people who have this mindset think they're playing Counter strike or something. At some point, a game in League is pretty much 99% unwinnable in high elo (even less winnable in pro games) because of how far ahead the enemy is and how far behind you/your team are.
Yes if you queue up for a normal game, not a game that is obejectively lost and u are waiting for the end. He even tried to play it for as long as it wasnt over.
Said the Iron 3 peaker...
I think agurin is right because he knows that this game is lost but I think the bad part about his decision to afk is that he has many viewers and people who want to play like he does and this people maybe start afking in scenarios that are winnable now because they think "agurin would afk this so do I" that's the only thing I'm worried about.
People like you saying this makes me wonder if people even believe in free will. "Arguin quite a game that wasn't fun, he's helping league players learn to let go instead of obsessing over every win. Now silver players will be more at peace."
The argument sound goofy when you don't believe it? That's cause it is if you don't inherently believe the subjective point you're assuming is true. Either way, don't make excuses for people who don't exercise their own free will and critical decision making
Do those people not have their own accountability? Do you need others to be perfect to have your own good behaviour lol? Shut up man
Yes you are 100% right, but AFKing is still illegal🤷🏼♂️
I got chat restricted for calling my teammates dickheads, because they did nothing when the enemy team had hecarim ivern with smite and jgl item and basically each of them had more cs than me in jgl and my teammates were like "oh why dont you gank, so useless" bro I am not gonna gank a renekton 4 levels ahead of me as lvl 4 wukong
I understand nemesis's perspective, and sometimes you get griefed and it sucks, but no excuse to afk. However i doing think he should get a more serious punishment just because he's a streamer. Everyone can get tilted. If he got punished by riots system it's deserved, but he shouldn't get extra punished or whatever
So...I think he still did wrong. But he definitely doesn't deserve an outright ban. I'd be ok with a suspension but he shouldn't get banned and nobody should be out for his throat 😅
He took a happiness break from teammates he couldn't stand. I imagine if he did this in a sport not filled with egotistical cry babies everyone would be like "shame and loser behavior but sometimes you get too upset at things going wrong. Walking away is the best choice opposed to a miserable and toxic game."
I don't care how well you perform or not in the game, the simple principle of playing out the game until you can finally surrender is what's important. Even if his entire team is inting: there is no valid excuse for quitting a match. Yes, his games are in high ELO where setbacks like the bard pick will just solo lose the game but I don't think anyone who watches him will care. High ELO streamers going AFK in matches sets a god awful precendent for players to do the same and if you're gonna make it part of your livelihood to play a game: follow the rules.
Slight addition: this is even more important due to a recent reddit post about what should be done to players who AFK matches and the consensus was to punish them severely. The community hates people quitting matches before they're over and I don't think we should start making excuses and exceptions for those who can't follow the main rule of "play to win". Have a stronger mental and play out the game even if it's lost, man literally ruined his ability to be taken seriously by the general community for the next few days.
It’s a game. If you intentionally make it less fun you cannot blame other people for wanting to leave. Simple as that.
@@thedailypersonsopinion2099 It's ranked tho. If you have that mindset then I guess people should play normals then. Ranked is for tryharding til the end, atleast that's how it should be treated imo.
@@verloreneseele8898 I hope Lionl9 or a copycat is in your next promo with his alternative strategy...
Its spiralled out and Agurin just recognised ff doesnt need a timer it needs an acknowledgement that staistically the game is over and you can just agree with the system and concede and move on. A game state of 11-4 less than 10 minutes in at masters level would be an ff for almost any pro level team if it didnt have the likelihood of being over before the timer came up.
I mean I think it’s contradictory to say that the afk guy in your platinum matches should be banned but Agurin shouldn’t, yeah the game is worthless but then your argument is literally just he shouldn’t be banned because he’s Agurin, regardless of who’s afking it’s a punishable offense.
hes not arguing that agurin shouldnt be punished by leaverbuster or riot here, hes saying that it doesnt make agurin the bad guy and that it is morally absolutely justified
i get nemesis point of view. but imo going afk is just not the solution. once you q up for the game, play the game eventho it can be painfull. also i couldnt find pick orders BUT if he picked zyra and knew in advance that he will have no topside prio, its his fault aswell by picking zyra and getting fked
15:04 the balls to play the victim here. "I'm quite used to this type of behaviour sadly *sigh*". you mean people angry at your shitty coinflip cheese strat that forces them to play around you ? Shocker
Problem is other people will see agurin afk and justify it in their games and say if he can we can
Regardless of how justified the behavior is, it just teaches viewers that it's ok to afk their games too. He shouldn't abuse the afk system that's super lenient because it can't tell the difference between a dc or a legitimate afk by afk'ing.
Yes, it was a pretty unwinnable game, but he could honestly just wait a few min then ff. A streamer getting away with stuff is just encouraging others to do it too.
I mean maybe, maybe not. But you have to also remember most steamers are literally playing a different game. Tutorial ends at D4, this is a Masters/GM game it’s completely different. Game is pretty unwinnable from this state. It’s not encouraging viewers to afk in their low elo games maybe if they were masters+ sure but if anything it’s also teaching them there are games you can’t win. It’s just impossible for the average player especially in Reddit lmao to make a 1 to 1 comparison of his game to theirs and be like “nah it’s winnable not even over yet just play”
its EUW, they always vote no to hostage games.
the onus should be on Riot to fix the system for unwinnable games instead of on streamers to deal with the negative consequences of being lazy with the afk punishment system
you can literally have teammates hold you hostage by afk waveclearing for 40 min then purposely give the nexus but you can't quit even if they admit to it in chat. it's a terrible system
@@6JLU +1
@@6JLU A lot easier said than done.
I'll never understand people that play like Bardinette or Baus, where they just force their team to accommodate to their weird way of playing the game. If it was a rare occasion I would understand, but they play like this game after game, for years. What level of mental illness does it take to be like this?
I don't agree with leaving the game because you can ff super early now, it's whatever. If they vote no, sure, understandable. But yeah that game was 100% unwinnable.
Also agreed with nemesis that not even Baus playstyle is as bad as people who do shit like Bardinette (he's not the only one btw)
Except the fact the Baus’s playstyle(best case scenario) pulls the whole Topside on him while generating economy. Creates pressure on the map and enables your jungler to focus on the two other lanes and objectives while having perma prio for topside objectives. This bard(best case scenario) gets mid ahead, gets bot ahead, generates no economy toplane, creates the biggest 1v9 monster toplane,lose inhibitor min 15, gets your jungler pushed out of topside. Even Baus was forced to evolve his playstyle more to be playable with. This Bard does not. I guess there you have a reason why Baus is 700LP higher than this abomination.
Whether the game is winnable or not is irrelevant, by participating with 4 other teammates I would argue you have responsibility to play it out, unless the team decides to surrender. Even if the game is unwinnable, you are still playing with others who may not know or think otherwise, the argument "I can AFK because it's a waste of time", well now you waste their time, and you should be prepared to get banned.
he does not waste any time tho, he SAVES time for his team by doing that. U cant just say that the best jungle player in the world doesn't know when a game is lost and his random 500 lp bard top otp knows
@@shadowd9810 but it's not his decision to make whether the time is wasted for other players, it's theirs, and if they want to continue to play, he should too.
"bard and malph are afk while agurin is covering correctly" he's literally sitting afk on red buff and then doesn't even respond to the invade? What kind of takes are these HAHA
he died because bard isnt covering where he is supposed to be covering and thats why they saw them too late, werent ready and then he died
@@yihadistxdl951As a challenger player he should recognize that the bard isn't covering correctly and recognize that they can invade from the top side. He also went to type ff instead of flashing and trying to live. He's obviously tilted and not thinking properly. While I would also fall into the same trap doesn't make it right, it's solo queue and shit like this will always happen.
Mf never had the psychological development 5 yr Olds get where they realize others can know info they themselves don't know. Now he's here to admit it without realizing for us to laugh. Gotta give him points for being worth something ig
Yeah honestly sometimes its just better to leave the game.
I used to afk games pretty frequently when I played top because sometimes Id fall so far behind that Id lost my team the game and I dont want to force them to stay and play it out when they can get less lp lost for my mistake
Respect for giving your team lp loss mitigation but agurin shouldn't be the one leaving it should be his teammates
i get what you are saying but you just sound like the silver player that all of the redditors are talking about that saw him afk and thought " i can go afk if we are losing"
@@fklmrek437 I play at an elo where if I'm 0/3/0 down 50 cs to an Irelia with 11 cs/min playing Ryze top its legit better for my team for me to leave and save everyone like 5 lp than it is to play it out and get chain solo killed nonstop
@@fklmrek437 You critically misunderstood the video. I literally said in another comment that agurin's games are completely different than in your silver games. In silver sure, you have like a 20% chance of the enemy team all feeding shutdowns or something.
This is especially true because his team can't get comeback gold. comeback gold is based off of the number of supports now (to remove top laners going support item). If a team has 2 supports they will get severely nerfed comeback gold.
@@meanderer9808 ok but what about my comment is wrong? you kinda just brought up meaningless points, if anything they support what i said so i guess you just read it wrong
League of Legend subreddits should have everyone profile picture is their rank in game.
Therefore you can legitimately point out a Silver tell GM player how to play the game.
We all understand the game is over already and there's no point playing it out, but those aren't the rules. You must keep playing to win at all times (even if its likely not winnable). Its not that complicated. AFKing is against the rules therefore needs punishment. You cant pick and choose when the punishment is applied. This isn't a court were you plead your case. It may be stupid to you, you might think the rules are wrong but the point stands. AFK = punishment. No matter the context. DC'ing from power outages is still applied for god sake.
azzapp viewer spotted
so you're saying we should waste 30 minutes in a lost match instead of going afk for 10 minutes and go next
time is a finite resource, just saying
@@elios7623 I agree, but riot doesnt. And riot makes the rules. Thats all there is to it.
@@marvinpanvan nope
@@MegaBamPow fair enough
This is literally the kind of game state that would justify an open mid. There's no way you can come here thinking that going afk is the worst offense in this game unless you just don't have any context. People will watch these clips and take it as gospel, it's crazy. It's like a lot of the adc clips, sometimes it's fair to be upset and say adc is weak, a lot of the time it's a clip out of context and it's entirely reasonable.
So he lost in champ select? *How is that a justification to AFK?* By extension, anyone should be allowed to AFK with a suboptimal draft. You are queuing with random players, your consent to their strategies is not relevant unless they are griefing, and no, playing a champion you don't like does not count. Lets not forget that, even if you have a meta team comp, if you play jungle and all your lanes lose, you lose. If it wasn't for there being a Bard Top player in the game, *no one* would remotely care about Agurin going AFK, he would just be another League streamer throwing a tantrum. Bard did not make the other lanes lose in the first 5 minutes, he is not the main reason the game was lost. Going AFK before 15 minutes is more punishable, because unlike playing a champion you don't like, is legitimate griefing and sets a terrible precedent for other players that watch his streams.
This is a strawman, Agurin played the game properly and earnestly. Neither nemesis nor Agurin made the case to AFK due to the champ select screen, Agurin played the game normally and progressively got solf-inted by his midlaner, got lane lost (not trolled, nobody implied that) and any chance for a comeback gold got absorbed by champions that don't need gold to be effective. After top lane, midlane, and botlane lost Agurin was not even able to enter topside jungle anymore without having 3 people jump him. Nemesis made this crystal clear, and although Agurin may have a higher standard of conduct as a streamer, its also your responsibility as a watcher to not say bullshit and treat these streamers unfairly.
@ not a strawman lol
Truly refreshing to see someone speaking simple true facts, so depressing nowadays it feels like being surrounded by apes, how can emerald players even DARE to comment on GM+ lobbies, it's not even the same game
The issue is, the silver jungler that watches Agurin will then think it's fine to go afk when his top laner loses because 'he's getting griefed and there's no point in playing anyway'. Streamers are people who make money playing the game and have a big influence on how the community as a whole acts too, so they should absolutely be held to a higher standard. Just suck it up for a few minutes and take your money.
so.. when i get hostaged in a game for 40-50 min because enemy are too dumb or too malicious to finish the game.... i should just quit too? yeah i'd be banned by now.
suck it up agurin YOURE GETTING PAID TO DO T HIS MAN.
(no, i dont think quitting was morally wrong. just a low thing to do. for him, its content, for us "plebians" its just torture.
we just want to have fun, he's there to get PAID. )
quitting is for cowards, if the enemy team is too inept to end, you can beat them.
@@drjamaymay405 "too dumb or too malicious"
looks like you're in the former category not the latter )
@@drjamaymay405 so you wanna tell me that players grandmaster are that stupid to not end this game as a win?
Idk, it doesn't matter if game is lost or not a streamer with high viewership shouldn't ever afk or troll, especially when it's a "watch me to improve and learn the game streamer" rather than "look at my quirky personality" streamer. Considering that many people watch agurin to improve in the jungle, I do believe that doing this will just promote less tolerant gameplay in the lower elos where the junglers will start thinking that they can afk because a few plays went incorrectly, when in reality it can be played.
The game in this situation was very frustrating for agurin and I do not blame him for afking, I blame him for afking and showing that to gold 4 FredEvelynn1234 that will go afk after his toplaner solo dies lvl 2.
Exactly this
Yep same thoughts. Low elo people will see this and think they can go AFK once a game looks lost, the problem is in low elo games aren't lost even if its 0 kills to 15. It just teaches bad things imo.
how should someone improve by watching a clown fiesta in which a MALPHITE MANAGED TO DIE VS TRYNDA AT LEVEL 1 + Bard trolling?
Is not worth for the watchers, and the streamer shouldn't be obliged to continue playing like the black men collecting cotton some time ago...
toxic = ruining the game experience by actions
verbal abuse = typing negative stuff with adress
so its toxic what the bard does
I think the only argument would be that you just shouldn't afk every, because there is a winning chance, however slim it is.
The problem is that the higher Elo you get the less mistakes are made by the enemy that could allow such a comeback. This relies on them stalling out the game for quite a while, which is also time they are bleeding gold. Is this still very winnable in bronce, silver, gold, maybe plat? Definitely. There is just much more variance.
yes, I am against giving up in games that are below master. Master+ I advocate for giving up games, if it logically makes sense
@@NemesislolClips need to watch more azzap.
As reluctant as I was to agree with Azzap on it at this point I’m fairly convinced no matter the elo you are griefing if you ever ff a game.
@@wowitsfrostygames155i think that was a crack pipe not azzap bro
@@majseketin2280 no idea who or what you’re talking about lol.
@@wowitsfrostygames155 u have no idea about more things than you think !
i never got why agurin gets hate, nicest guy (even tho he can have a sharp tongue) and has reached peak solo Q for the past 4 years or so
IDC how a game feels, IDC how unwinnable a game is: Going AFK is never the right thing to do. Should he be banned over a single game? No.
Cool, you do you. "I don't care who you are, you don't tell others they're wrong for breaching your moral code if they're 100x your expertise"
Don't agree? That's your argument structure. If this guy values his time more than his teammates, some mf in the comments can't cry if he spends it not being miserable. Like, do you think not knowing how to let go in a video game is a skill?
I think the problem is not him going afk but what that behavior does to the community and the type of influence. Angurin might know 100% that this game is lost and be 100% right but people that are lower ranks see this that don't actually know when the game is unplayable start afking because they are feeding and are not the main character on that game anymore and saying "This is unplayable'll afk".
That is what the issue is here imo.
I agree. I don't think Nemesis realizes how much of a bad influence this behavior can have on people who look up to Agurin but don't understand the game as much. Players will emulate what he does, even when the situation is inappropriate.
You guys act like league players have no free will or critical thinking. How is it this guys fault when he makes a good choice if others with poor decision making make bad choices? He's not a teacher. He's not a role model. He's a fucking gamer for God sakes, he quit a toxic match instead of being toxic
@@atrustworthyfellow6887 if you have a following you have influence over other people just how it works
Despite the terrible game state NO ONE should AFK EVER. Each player has the right to have a fair shot at trying to carry from a losing position.
If you go AFK you should be reported, if you do it consistently you should be banned. This if you are Iron IV or Rank 1. The law should apply to all equally or to none at all.
It’s as simple as that.
If we condone AFKing when 1 player thinks the game is lost we are opening a very dangerous door.
Agurin went from a chill dude to someone shadowing his support (Paolocannone) because he didn’t like the way he was playing.
The guy is just so full of ego and thinks he can act however he pleases because he is Agurin.
fkn low elo players never ff lost games wtf is this trash mentality go next stop wasting time.
@@mrpulcio7724it so obvious ur low elo it reeks. “Carry from position” shut ur mouth that game was lost minute 1:20 fuck you mean carry from position. Its so pathetic to see low elos speak on how high elo works. If you were so good at the game why are you still stuck?
Okay, name a single way their team CAN make a comeback, without one of the enemy players having a stroke?
@@thestylemage2092 It's high elo SoloQ, ego plays are around every corner.
I love getting 3 and 4 man ganked by the enemy team in my jungle during my first or second clear, and no one in any of those empty lanes help or gets something out of it.
This followed by the jungle diff spam. Like come on my guy, y’all have been shoved in all game, and your lane opponent just jumped me with jungle mid and support.
For whatever reason this is justified, you literally sign an agreement that you will try your best to play out and not afk in soloque. Just don't fucking AFK when you queue up.
Found the low elo. I'd rather save my mental than try to save this for a sub 1% chance to win
@@Real.eKolinsave your mental? If league of legends is affecting your mental then you have issues, im playing in the same elo as agurin and i would deinstall the same second this shit game starts affecting my mental, learn to get on with games its soloq shit happens
@@Real.eKolinagurin is screaming literally at every missplay his team makes if game goes to be long, watch his stream idk why guy thinks world is about him only, there are players who are way better then him
@@stefancrnogorac2121 yo dude has a ego problem for years.
But it's not the point
This elo is mega punishing, give em an inch and they rob you of a yard
Silver redditors who has no idea about how the game works should never speak. Ive also played with bardinette, one of the biggest hemoroids in high elo, i dodge him every time
Lemme tell ya something Riot said years ago:
They dont punish people for griefing or being toxic ONCE or TWICE. Why? Because they know league is COMPETITIVE and things get HEATED; at the end of the day we are all HUMAN and once in a while people tend to lash out, rage or just AFK because they're tilted.
Ive played this game for almost a decade (sadly) and ive never got a penalty even ONCE. Never went AFK and dont trash talk. However, one day i tilted because my support morgana was stealing farm on purpose, raged on her and went AFK.
I got nothing. No penalty, even though they were spamming to report me. Why? Because Riot KNOWS i'm a decent player, and that i played their game like any normal human for YEARS, and that this ONE instance doesnt justify banning a years long honorable playe.
Same thing with Agurin. He tilted and went AFK after a shit game, thats all. Hes not suddenly an inter or trash talker like old Tyler1 who deserves a ban, hes just human and lashed out.
Why is Nemesis explaining the entire in game state? That only clarifies how someone has a bad game, not justifies AFK/trashtalking. Giving up in a game is an extremely unsportsmanlike behavior no matter how bad the game is.
Forcing everyone on your team to abandon their own game plan to accommodate you is also unsportsmanlike
All of the high elo streamers (Dom, Nemesis, Veigar v2) who have responded to this thread have totally nailed it. And EVERYONE in the high elo community clearly fucking despise this bard OTP. Riot has made a game where you can often be stuck in a game that is quite literally unwinnable for 10+ minutes before you're able to forfeit, and even then you can end up getting hostaged and stuck for even longer. Agurin technically should not have AFKed but that doesn't mean it's not understandable behavior for the situation.
The point isn't that the game is lost and he "can't play" the point is what he is doing is pretty much telling everyone that is watching him(that is more than likely low elo player) that just because said game may be lost or because you think/know the game is lost it is ok to afk and ruin the rest of the game for everyone else. I am not saying that the bard's strat was not griefing or w/e but if you are not going to play the game out until a FF/game end then don't queue up.
How is this any different than when the Janna top shit was meta?
That is most certainly not what he is saying and anyone who copies challenger streamers in low elo isnt human anyway. Stop. You sound ridiculous
The question the people for that think its okay to do it because agurin did it, have to ask themselves is; "Am I a multiple season challenger, have i gotten Rank 1 in multiple servers including the hardest in the world?"
If the answer is no, then dont go AFK. He went afk because this is a master tier game and the game is obviously unplayable because players in high elo can and will snowball their lead and suffocate you until you lose the game, this will not happen as much in lower ranks
?????
Flaming consistent PMA player for being griefed in high elo game is wild. Whatever silver-plat players do replicating high elo is not his problem at all, its frustrating to be in such game, but you will just move on and if you are not hardstuck 49wr player you will climb regardless of being trolled 10 games out of 100. As Neme said the truth is top ranked EUW player known for his skill and approach is being griefed by for fun player in high elo, there is literally no sense in being subjected to playing with a troll. Also it is preety obvious noone wants to play with a support top with a support item who tries to cheese game systems and regular lobbies are also open. I don't know if you had any experience with high ranked games but it is preety unrewarding being punished HARD by skilled players cause they leverage your troll teammate and not your mistakes as it should be
I mean, yes but i think should be good if he later on just explain why the game is lost like nemesis here
this clip is a bard lvl 4 as solo laner (same as pyke), team is still behind in kills even tho toplane is playing a roaming support and at the end you can see a ezreal 1vs2 kaisa + pyke. This just looks like the average open mid high elo games tbh.
I can't get how everyone is missing the actual point. It's not about if the in-game situation justifies agurin for afking and there's certainly no need to yap for 15 minutes explaining why it does. The point is that if - for absolutely ANY reason - you think it's justified, then what happens to the thousands of games and players that this reason applies to too. Who will be there to judge every single game that is "unplayable" for someone and justify him for afking? So it's not about nemesis's vs redditors opinion about what happens in-game. Its about having rules that stand for everyone no matter the situation because its simply not possible to judge everyone individually.
Your point holds no ground because if we talk about “in theory” here then there should be no reason in general for people to afk. You completely miss the whole point and jump to conclusions just like all the redditors also did
@@mihaialexandrulungu2681 I dont think I completely get what you're trying to say. I never talked "theoretically". It's a fact that everyone has games that are "unplayable" but there's just no way for riot to say "yea, you are right go ahead and afk and you will not be punished". Of course people have reasons to afk, but they shouldn't. Agurin sould be punished, just like everyone else. Also i dont really get how I jumped to any conclusions after literally writing a paragraph explaining my reasoning but ok lol
I am sorry but what advantage does bard top have over bard support? What difference is in the gameplan?
Mental damage to both teams. +metaphysical to your team exclusivelly.