He doesn't care if it's bad cos he will not see it in his game lol. It's easy to say "that cool strat my man" then you play with it then you hate your life.
@@vlbluu124 why should I lose lp because someone is so eager to try something new? As neme said, it works to some extent, yasuo jngl gonna work in plat, so what? The way high elo works is completely different. You can try something new as much as you want, but let it happen in normals
@@vlbluu124 if you go to iwdominate's video he has a good point for that argument. riot actively refuses to allow these new strats, hence why they nerfe every single deviation of the norm, cause that is not how they want the game to be played. baus strat was nerfed, yi+taric was nerfed, plates were added against perma roaming and so on
@@nikg7126 yeah but those players that have a unique strat continue to play their strat even after nerfs, that's why baus still plays sion to this day, and other OTPs / unique players continue. Some people play to have fun and their fun is playing their way
So I watched the entire VOD to get context of what happened in the first 5 minutes... At first I thought Agurin shouldn't AFK... but holy that game was so completely unplayable. He gets permainvaded starting level 1 and his bard/malphite/pyke are all straight up griefing.
I literally closed the VOD after malphite dying level 1 against trynda in mid XD basically 3 pigs in same team with agurin, they grief the drafts & match and people expect you to play.
@@atreyes Agurin had two options in the game: Getting perma invaded and barely getting any camps (as Zyra) and probably dying or going afk. What sounds better?
So if agurin makes a support account, but he doesnt play support and instead double jungles its fine? Im sure hed easily be able to get around 500lp with that. But since he wins games and got to his elo doing that we are ok with him ruining the game for his jungle and adc?
@@nabkill0134thats exactly what he is saying, same goes with that bard player, he is good enough to get high elo with it but it doesnt mean its fun for the others, it must feel like shit playing with open top in higher elos
10:51 this part is so crazy to hear. Caedrel said like Bardinette is just a guy playing a game, why is it his fault. mf warped the game with his playstyle. how the fuck it's not his "fault". People can debate whether the whole playstyle is trolling. Maybe if Agurin didn't afk, their botside might have enough leads to eventually win the game. Maybe he "caused" the situation in neutral terms but it's not trolling, so we should not use the word "fault"? To me, Caedrel is just saying "Anyone can play anything", which is true but thinking that people should not blame the guy and get upset is pretty weird. Excessive toxicity is one thing but saying your strategy sucks is also a thing that people can do.
Yeah, you can say it sucks, but it obviously doesnt. He's better than like 99% of league players right? and thats consistency. I'm just bad at the game and I play meta. I must be griefing since im not high elo.
@@nightcall6386Right but getting upset with a guy because they have poor macro, poor mechanics wtv (like everyone below GM-Chal) is one thing. Getting upset because a guy on your team said fuck you mid jg, you will guaranteed be behind so I can coinflip bot, also their top is gonna be giga ahead. Its a conscious decision versus just being inexperienced at the game.
@@nightcall6386 But, you are wholly missing the nuance of this situation versus the remaining 99% of league players. These are all generally relatively well matched games. Bardinette to his teammates and enemies is really no different from you or I and our teammates. So, the fact that we the 99% suck ass this game doesn't even matter. The actual problem with players like Bardinette is purposefully playing a non-optimal playstyle that completely puts your team behind for the majority of the game while giga boosting the enemy top laner. Bardinette is good enough to just play a normal top or even fucking bard support and he will still win games, probably more games without pissing everyone on his team off for no reason. This play style does actually suck because tactics like this has been nerfed out of the game to ensure a more traditional laning playstyle. It doesn't work as well as just playing the game properly. He is only winning games because either his bot lane gets to pop off even with mid and jungle severely behind thanks to Bardinette OR the enemy team crumbles in their own griefing and toxicity. He also only wins because he himself is actually not a bad bard player, just his playstyle is dogshit. You can't just look at him playing with people with similar or lower skill level and winning with a dogshit playstyle, and assume that his playstyle is actually working. There are so many morons that fail to replicate Baus's Sion gameplay in Iron, Bronze, Silver, Gold, etc. and they fucking suck at it. But guess what? They are actually as good as the people they are facing or maybe even slightly better, so sometimes they just win through sheer mechanical dominance and consistently stick around their elo with no downward movement. But, these kinds of people also don't climb that much from their elo because even if they are mechanically good enough, they are just not playing correctly to climb. Bardinette is the same. He is probably a challenger player easy, but he chooses to play the game completely wrong, piss his teammates off, and coin flip games. If this was the best way to play top or even bard, bard and this tactic would be a massive issue that needs to be nerfed just like Baus's Sion was/is. But it isn't, this is one of the worst ways to play either.
Bruv, I got masters in OCE recently and I’ve played against Tilterella multiple times. He inted every game. First game I’m like “woah did I just play against tilterella?” After 4th 5th game I’m like this guys a filthy inter. Whenever I see his name in loading screen I know he’s gonna mega int 4 times out of 5. Idk in the past but rn he’s very bad
The weird thing is caedrel says to bardinette '' you do you buddy'' but the other 4 player in his team are doing their own thing and playing the game in a traditional way. So why would i forced to play the bardinette version of the game instead of the traditional way? Him playing the 4 players' version is better for 4 people but him playing his own way is only better for him. We just shouldn't make up excuses for the inters.
He is not inting, he just plays his own way. If you can't play with him, then it's one loss, move on, it's not like you are gonna play with him for 10 straight games... He is just one guy out of the thousands of meta Andy players that plays "normally". League is a game where every player can play their own way, your teammates might not like it but if it's what works for you then who are they to make you stop? This is why league becomes toxic, some people play differently and yall want to crucify them. Like bruh, imagine if no one tried lane swapping, pro play would be stale, it had been the same champs over and over for 3 years, until lane swap meta changed how teams play. It's like in the NBA when the warriors won by using the three point shot, no one believed they could do it, but when they did, every other team started copying them. Innovations in games won't happen if you don't have these people that play differently from the meta.
@@crudojoshuaricofort8795 so i think you have a problem seeing things in this video and heres why: As a jungler, are you able to farm/gank with 3 people constantly in your jungle and taking camps without any help from the "non-stale" player like him? Let me remind you that the game in the video is high Master which everyone in that game know how to macro/micro so can you even make any play from your role if that bard is not with/helping you? Spamming hundreds of game to get to GM doesnt make him A GRANDMASTER PLAYER, it just people in lower elo are so clueless so he thinks that his playstyle is working, not because of it actually good to play in high elo. It just straight up a fact in that video: they have a level 7 renekton full csing and plates against your level 4 bard and you think its make the game not stale? Innovations my asscheek bro
It’s not inting though he’s trying to win? And wins enough to climb to high elo. You being frustrated at a play style ≠ bannable. The point of ranked is to win games and if he’s winning more than 99.99% of league players then who are we to tell him how to play? It’s fair game when you’re not bug abusing or scripting.
@@crudojoshuaricofort8795The difference between entire professional teams proposing and agreeing on innovative strats and a single guy going "hold on, lemme cook" and then proceeding to underperform and make the game unfun for everyone else is huge though. Also, it's not like Riot doesn't try to weed out the off the rails strategies, like lane swapping, inting Sion or Smite Janna, so it's pretty clear they also don't like when things get too weird. I get it, it's just a game and sometimes it works, but please let's not give the guy cookies for "being creative" and "doing his own thing".
I never knew the game has rules how it must be played, whats next? you cant invade jungle because thats not traditional? You must 5v5 every objective because thats traditional? you must pick ranged designated adc as adc because thats traditional? ziggs gets you banned because you force 4 people to play without adc thats just excuse for inters
How the fuck is making four teammates suffer not toxic? Does it matter that he's in that ELO? Why do pro players hate Ady? You can literally hit rank 1 and be a 1500 LP challenger player and pro players still don't respect Ady or think his strategy is real.
@@andreasioannides5780 if his strat is bad then why he is rank 1 challenger in the most skilled region? or did he just coinflip his way to rank 1 korea?
@@davidsamy Rank is just your ability to win, nothing to do with how you get to that point. A challenger player can just sprint it mid of spawn and feed a kill, proceed to play normal and still get challenger. Does that mean it's good to die on spawn every game? No. That's the worst argument you could ever give.
@@kristianvukajlovic6789 that is not valid comparison, roaming toplaners were always a thing either 2 years ago when Janna top smite was rolling the soloQ with 60% winrate or back in the days where River Shen/Thresh was played, these strats don't always work just like any other picks/ team-comps your teammates force in the champ select
@@davidsamy It's obviously an exaggeration, I don't even know what the Ady guy did, but the argument he achieved A so B is good doesn't hold. "if his strat is bad then why he is rank 1 challenger in the most skilled region?" - because he is just good at soloq, doesn't mean what he does is optimal.
Everyone has that moment, where they dont wanna play the game, cuz the teams losing so hard and be done with it.. so just afk. People just wanna find someone to villanize someone lmao.
Because tyler is/was known for being the most toxic mf in the game. He has changed. Agurin always plays the white knight. And if he is wrong, he simply isnt , because hes rank 1. Now the white knight does shit, he gets punished for it
@@isoldmymumforrp5371 This is true but also to an extent I think the lol streamer space is so down bad for drama and content that they will find any excuse to call somebody out for some shit and get everybody in the space to talk about it, literally every time lol creators cross paths at this point is when its drama or drama analyzation
As far as I’m concerned that’s the same thing lol. Same damn result. Man the fuck up and finish the game or don’t play at all. I don’t get how this community has any tolerance for this. Like we can have a conversation about what the bard is doing being toxic or troll, but there should be zero tolerance for leaving the game. The fact that you guys can even entertain that is laughable.
Dam this is really an L take from caedrel. Smite janna top worked because top became a low impact lane 2 years ago after the tp nerfs which made it so that if your bot lane was ganked, there was no real way for top to help them. Janna smite top was abused to set both enemy jglers and enemy bot laners behind and put ALL of your teammates ahead. Mid and bot will be ganked and jg will either have faster obj and clear speed with jannas smite or it will annoy and put the enemy jgler behind. Bot lane and jg were also by far the strongest roles and janna also had great utility and peel. Tht combined with powerful support items, a low impact top lane, strong jg and bot lane meta combined once again with a great peeler/shieldbot/slow/healbot support made it so that you gained more than you lost. Also bounty systems were absolutely broken back then since it gave the enemy a big shutdown since they were farming cs and you werent. Janna smite top was an actual viable good strat with an average of 57 pecent win rate in high elo back then. Yi taric was also broken and actually viable since there really isnt much that you can do vs that combination at that time. But this bard top is 50 percent win rate running around the map probably only tickling the enemy and caedrel is defending him. If someone can get to masters, i would say that they have an understanding of the game. Just imagine if this bard got a real champ top and actually played the game.
The difference with Baus' playstyle is that Baus does lane "normally", he is in top lane, he doesn't choose to sack every wave, 5 plates, grubs and his junglers' top side because haha funni champ can go weeee in wall
Yeah Idk how people are defending this bardinette guy.... NOBODY wants to play with him, literally not a single person. He's like "I'm trying my hardest to win even though I pick bard top!" But like... if you're "trying your hardest to win" why the hell are you picking bard top in the first place.
@@TH-dg2mm If he did this strategy with a "normal" top lane champion, I would be saying the same thing. He legitimately decides that his team should find a way to play with 2/3rds of the gold and exp that the map produces, because top lane waves are never collected. Nobody on his team agreed with this idea, he forces everyone to play the way he wants
@@Pyrrha_Nikos I mean the other problem is that you can't just pick this cheese shit with every team comp. They have bard top and Malphite mid... that means you have 2 champions that do NOTHING early. Like if you have a super strong early game mid laner you can get away with it, because if you're super strong mid laner rotates to that raptor fight you can in 3v3... but malphite does nothing before level 6. So you have a bard roaming permanently to help a mid laner who can't do anything anyways. Just a complete joke.
Yeah but Janna top was not laning normally, and once people figured out how to play around it, it was being used in professional games. Funneling Master Yi is not playing normally, but again, same thing... eventually pros are doing it because they think it offers best chance to win. Just because most people haven't figured out how to utilize it doesn't mean it's trolling or it shouldn't be allowed.
well chess is just a "game" where the only thing that matters is repetition and practice, and it has been proven. some random chess gm experimented with his 2 daughters from birth, building their entire lives around chess, practicing the skills they would need in order to be good at chess with them at a very young age and would you look at that both of them ended up being grandmasters and one of the sisters is the greatest female chess player of all time, judit polgar. in most things in life you simply cant be a prodigy, its just that you developed certain skills during your early childhood that ended up aligning well with the thing that you are a "prodigy" at.
Riot already stated before that a strategy that forces your team to play around you will get you banned. There was a support Singed with smite that got banned for it some years ago and that one only forced your adc to play solo.
@@xBox360BENUTZER so picking bard support and roaming should be bannable? Or just picking yuumi should instantly ban you? I remember one time our mid saying he's reporting our senna for playing fasting senna and me the support for taking the CS.
He plays around his botside so i dont understand how his team is forced to play around him. Why is botlane complaining when they have a free ganker to help them?
@@MrWizardjr9 honestly Yuumi should be deleted. As for Bard support pick, it's not necessarily a problem as long as he communicates that he is gonna pick Bard so adc can pick something safe like Ezreal or Cait.
But there is no way, this "drama" is so relevant. Like hello? Agurin just went AFK 1 game I don't see the big deal. If he fed and went AFK or went AFK lvl 1 i could see the big deal but it's just not. TLDR version is Agurin went AFK in an unwinnable game and people act like this is the new german painter of the 21st century
I'm reminded of the one guy who played Singed support with Smite who did something similar (just ran around roaming, helping the jungle farm faster, and counterjungling) and I'm pretty sure Riot banned/warned him to stop not because he wasn't allowed to to pick Singed support, but because his playstyle just completely screwed over his ADC and forced him to 1v2. Which would work fine if the ADC was in any way capable or prepared to do so. Basically, Riot has a history of stopping people from playing unorthodox strategies that negatively affect your team.
The problem isn't that he is playing an off meta strat. The problem is he is FORCING his teammates against their will to play with an off meta strat. Riot disincentivized dodging, there should be a way to get out of champion selects with players like this so teammates do not need to suffer through playing his style. To the Baus argument he proxies the wave causing the enemy laner to either chase them stopping the proxy or take the wave, It is impacting the two players laning against each other. Comparing it to this case where the Renekton free pushes the lane can gain gold from platings/Roam/deep ward/reset he has complete free reign of what he wants to do. He can impact other lanes or get so monstrously ahead from platings and deep ward the topside jungle to make it impossible for Zyra to play. From my POV can it work? Yes, it would be great into tank matchups like Ornn being able to punish his inability to move and limited tower killing power. HOWEVER this guy does it every single game no matter the matchup, its not a "Strategy" at that point. The guy is forcing his playstyle upon others negatively impacting their experience playing them game, it is not fun to play with from experience and Riot need to implement a way of leaving champion select so they can opt out of being forced to play with players like this while they are "innovating". Really like Caedrel but hate his take on this enabling more people to do these "strategies" so that 1 person has fun and is "innovating" while the other 9 people have to suffer.
"Forcing playstyle" is such a bad argument. Do I consent to my laners having a bad game and going 0/10? Do I consent to my jungler perma full clearing? The reason why people are so addicted to this game is because every game is different, you have to adapt to each game. Every game you are "forced" to play a certain way because of factors that are outside of your control. The fact that someone can even do a strategy like this and succeed is a testament to the creativity that is possible within League of Legends.
@@amnesiac2796 That's even worse argument. Do I consent to people I don't like/don't agree with have right to speak? Do I consent those people has access to internet? Do I consent to the fact you absolutly missed the point and you just mumbling? It's different to adjust accordingly between games that are in general sense played similarly and it's different to flip the entire game upside down because one player decided it. And as it's pointed out, it's not about the fact he's playing it, it's about the fact he's playing it no matter what. If it was a matter of choice, if he was playing it in certian situations when neccessary criteria are met, people wouldn't care for the most part. BUT HE IS DOING IT EVERY GAME! Which is ironic because he is not adjusting his playstyle at all. And btw, I'm "forced" to read stupid comments like yours and live with the knowledge that people that has nothing in common with logic exists. :')
Yea, wait till you get yourself a bard top in your promo game that runs around like a clown. Then you'll realise. People defending him just merely haven't played with this kind of strat.
Even though Caedrel argument is valid, IWillDominate made a counter argument stating that Riot Games has been CONSISTENT at nerfing unorthodox playstyles like janna top, support items on other lanes, thebaus playstyle (as Caedrel pointed out) therefore Riot does not want to you to be a 24/7 roaming top laner, you must lane in the top lane as designed and when you play like bard it is reasonably accepted to just go afk since not even riot likes it. I would like to add that Bard messages every lobby that he is a bard top followed by a powerpoint hence people shouldn't expect standard league of legends as it is not a surprise and can dodge or adapt by not pick high resource junglers. IMO Open to arguments, please be reasonable! EDIT: typos and phrasings
@@Raymuklol you don't even know how this strat and you just jump in. "Riot try to stop fun strat" they stop the strat because it is only fun for the user at the expense of the team.
@@Raymuk When you say 'a bit fun', I would like to remind you that almost no one likes this playstyle as it is frustrating as expressed by majority (streamers or players).
because he is being hated on for no reason, you just dont agree with the wawy they play the game and thats why you flame them, while the people that are keeping the game interesting and alive are the same offmeta onetricks that you are flaming, happychimenoises isnt thriving for no reason, baus is the face of league, kesha, elosanta, dantes, all these guys play their champs differently and that is the reason they became popular in the first place.
Bro! So many waves are lost top - so much XP and money for the entire team! How can this be a good strat lol! Sure, sometimes on lower elo you get some kills and get the game rolling cause you're much better in the game in general but most of the time you just suck your laners XP and create 4v5 like in Augurin's game... you shouldn't force your teammates to agree to that...
He gets permainvaded starting level 1 and his bard/malphite/pyke are all straight up griefing and dying, as zyra that is straight up unplayable at that point. But yes I think we should defend the bard guy and his funny strat, forcing this entire game to be this way in the first place even before people started inting.
Next time I play top I’ll just go take mid waves after I shove top wave. It’s not griefing my mid laner, this is the innovative new strat where I get all the gold and carry. If my mid has problems about it I’ll just tell them to adapt to my strat and go low econ.
if the strategy works and you get 50+% wr then go for it, SOLOQ should be adaptative, if you want a well thought out strategy and perfect plays, go play 5 team flex
@@philcabauatan9089 Yes. It's solo q. So every game is pretty different. Adapt and win or lose to it the next game.Well if Clusterrockets strat does work. It's not uncommon. Their have been so many funnel strats that it doesn't even sound troll imo.
The roaming janna top was only working because of how the bounty system worked at time, like the team with roaming top would perma have bounties on objectives. But afterwards they nerfed it because rito found it to be a toxic playstyle
The reason Bard is just bad in thiscase is that the team doesn't get an advantage from it. Janna would make it so her team got Objective bounties early which evened out the gold but also had the Janna roaming pressure. Baus's playstyle makes it so he trades gold (hence the Bausen's Law) while opening up toplane little by little. Bard just roams and hopes enemy team is stupid enough to not punish anything he does so he can win which in upper elos, is not gonna happen. And as said by many high elo players, if you keep playing, you will climb, that's why there's so many one-trick in masters/GM, because they just play more games than the average player so the Bard getting to Masters isn't something amazing as he already has over 300 games this split.
Agreed, I feel this strat would be so good with strong pushing sidelanes, but when you’re playing Zyra jungle, you can’t just ignore camps and perma gank. And the fact that it is Malphite mid as well makes the bard pick much worse.
No the reason Bard is bad in this case is because the rest of the team inted. Everyone on the team (including Agurin) put themselves in a much worse position then when the game first started and it got out of control quick. All that matters is who kills the Nexus first.
We probably all agree Caedrel made some valid points and Agruin shouldn't have gone AFK, but analyzing the game and looking if it's playable or not still matters imo. It's always about gameplay, especially in competitive high elo. This situation got completely overblown, and everybody is way too drama hungry. People should chill a bit...
I think the problem is that Agurin is such an insufferable crybaby toxic asshole lately. So when someone who is super toxic does something bad, the entire community jumps on the opportunity. Like if you've watched Agurin stream since Korea... he literally complains and flames his team nonstop the ENTIRE game and it's EVERY game.
Innovative strats on one side, this playstyle goes against what league of legends is at its core: you have your lanes. They nerfed every startegy that goes against it. Heck, they nerfed Sion passive cause of it. Secondly, like many have said, Master Elo is not that high to prove strategies like this work. They can help you get to Masters cause people in lower elos do not know to counter it. However, not the case in Master, GM, and Challenger.
That Nubrac argument is just straight revisionism. Nubrac climbed by playing Teemo normally and then started troling with his smite supp nonsense. Bardinette plays Bard top to Grandmaster.
@@Dave-sc2ey he still is consistently at an ELO to play with these people who are complaining. He doesnt just get lucky to reach master 500LP and stay there with this strat.
I don’t like how people try to push a narrative here. Agurin is just a human being like everyone else. He is fed up with this bard and acts emotional, but sometimes that just happens. Y’all act like you never got overwhelmed by your emotions in your whole life. It’s maybe not the fine way to go Afk, but honestly I don’t give a sh*t. I don’t care what other people think in such a situation, because it’s a about me and my well being and if I feel like I’m not allowed to play the game then screw everyone. If he’s allowed to play his „innovative“ playstyle, I’m also allowed to afk - simple as that. I agree, League is supposed to make you have fun, but it should be fun for everyone and not only for yourself.
Caedral sometimes makes the 'neutral' or 'unemotional' reasonings but that's just so wrong to dismiss people who emotionally provide reasons and arguments. Not having an strong opinion and playing defense for both sides doesn't mean neither party is at fault. For me, this just makes Caedral seem like he thinks he's better because he doesn't care. I know he doesn't actually think that, but it feels similar to how Phreak would dismiss a community because he has the 'unemotional' stats to support his take.
Yeah it’s kinda annoying to see him just go with the most uncontroversial take. If he just doesn’t care then sure whatever but he definitely does come out looking like Bardinette’s lawyer while not committing to it at all in this clip.
The argument boils down to - is AFKing okay under certain in game circumstances? And my answer to that is always going to be no. You ruin it way more than someone playing some game warping off meta pick.
@@aflowingbrook2919 doesnt matter. play, if lose, move on, dont afk and make it worse cause you are just inting just like your inting teammates already
My biggest problem with this strat is how much responsibility he puts on the rest of his team. The enemy top is guaranteed to be fed and over leveled, he is basically creating that problem and telling his team that they are the ones who now have to deal with it. I get that the whole point is he is giving up a lot of his agency over the game too his teammates, But Support is literally a role in the game designed for this very reason and is made to be able to do so pretty much for free. He plays a second support but because he is top instead it comes with the cost of a giga fed enemy top laner. To be fair I think there are times the strat can work well, if the enemy has a tank top that wont be as dominant with the gold, and if his team is better for late game and scaling but could use the help getting ahead early. But he plays this strat every game regardless of team comp and can cripple his team as often as he helps them. that combined with the fact that when Bard is banned he actually just runs it down shows that this isn't some try hard game plan just a way for him to ruin the game for anyone he can.
This sums it up. He’s almost being a leftist sjw, trying to overdefend some minority group. Except in this case bardinette isnt an oppressed minority xd
@@verloreneseele8898nemesis saying he couldn't flash and live left me stunned, dude is a great player, but this comment is the most incorrect analysis because of bias, I was really disheartened to see it
@@fiorane I played with him as jg and it was horrible, our samira lane won vs cait leona and mid was even - but the enemy aatrox scaled too hard pushing 2 towers freely without getting answered. Still since its low master I don't care moving on games aren't your life.
Nice reactionary take. Have bard top in your team with malphite watching you get 3 manned in your jungle for the whole game and lets see your reaction then.
if bard top ruined pedro's game no thread gets created. sincerely hope they get matched together and he can talk about how the innovative strategy just didnt work out this time
@@XIplupIXand part of that PowerPoint was a slide that said if bard gets banned then he will lock in illaoi and run it down. His stats on illaoi are 2/7.2/3 btw
They did get matched together, bard went 3/4/27 and the team stomped with a 46-14 scoreline. The toplaner was also hitting t2 at 13 minutes into the game and ended at 3/7. The strat can work, it's why they're higher elo than basically everyone in this comment section.
Do you understand how high elo works? You think Caedrel has never played with him? Caedrel has played thousands and thousands of games in EUW Masters+, and this guy has been up there with him for years now. It's inevitable they will play many games with and against one another. Especially because they play different roles
The bard top is only winning because people arent familiar with his strat but if people figure out who he is and recognize his play style his win rate is going to go down
The weirdest strat I ever played against was a Singed/Nilah duo. They would proxy waves from the second wave on in MY BASE. I told my entire team to just ignore them, my top laner got a free lane, my bot lane won lane hard, the enemy jg was stretched too thin and fell behind, and they died in my base to minion damage or me beating their asses after I backed and spent. It was the most free win I've ever had.
I don't mind personally playing with strange off meta strategies, but it shouldnt be a big surprise that bardinette's teammates are going to be tilted because it is extremely coinflip. Since the strategy is so unorthodox it's obviously very easy for the game to become unplayable for the bard's team
Like it's so insane, if he managed to climb to master with this pick then it obviously works? It is the objective truth, does it get worse the higher elo you get get? probably. That doesn't change the fact that's it's a viable pick, delusional players.
4:08 , bro in poland there is a streamer named randombruce, whos stuck on his accounts in diamond elo , or get stucked in master while boosted by his Overpow duo , he got GM while having negative kda every game cuz of winstreaks and lp inflation ,then he get back to d4 , i think bardinette is similar
If roaming Bard top completely griefing the game for everyone else involved is inovation then Agurin going afk so that the enemy team lets their guard down may as well also be a innovative strat
@@xBox360BENUTZER I don't understand how these comments are so wildly against different playstyles. You dont get nearly this mad about iron players do you? They settle where they will go, based on strat and ability. Bard top wins to gm for bardinette, other ones will go to iron. Simple as
4:08 I disagree with this take, that since it works to Master/Grandmaster then it should be fine, the problem is that while Im not an Agurin fan, tbh, dont even know the guy. But I do know he's thinking of it as a Challenger, a consistent Top 10, rank 1 Challenger for multiple seasons playing this game. The single fact that the dude has to lessen or follow a Master/GM is so crazy to me. Baus is understandable and thats because he has actually played, reached, and still plays in Challenger alongside Challenger players. I hear so so so many people complain that Master/Grandmaster is like the shittiest rank which is actually true and so far from Challenger, hence the Low Masta meme, but the time it actually does feel like its Low Masta against Challengers, we back track on it and say, "Since it works and has made him reach top 500, then it should be fine" I dont know who the other 4 on his team are, but I would think, ykno, those 4 players are playing around top 100, top 200, or whatever Challenger cap is. Bad take from Caedrel imo. ❤❤❤
btw ady LCKCL korean toplaner hit rank 1 korea with janna/taric/thresh top, if you don't want to play with these kind of different playstyle just get better to avoid queuing in his elo or dodge the game, it is that simple
@@davidsamy brother no shot while i dont agree with ady's playstyle i can see why he does that but no shot youre saying bardinette and ady are at the same level ady lanes when he needs to if you watch some of his games bardinette just goes weeeeee i roam?!!?!?!?!?!?
@@Darkyryus_ they are not the same level for sure, but again if he got 53% winrate on EUW masters and peaked GM with dogshit strategy then the whole elo is dogshit as nemesis said, so people need to stop hating on bardinette and if they don't want to play with him either dodge his games or get better and hit challenger to not be in his lobbies anymore
The issue was the winning condition of the game. Zyra and kaisa need to be fed. Bard and pyke got all the kills. Trynd and renek had perma prio invade. Zyra cant play if shes continuously denied because your solo laners are useless. Malph and bard were perma griefing
This is basically the Korean Ady version in Europe. Yes, he may be good, and he may have a way of winning the game with this Strat, but the fact that this is a solo queue is hard for both sides. Because I'll also be tilted if I have a top bard in my game .
@millionelectricvolts6117 I mean for me personally the Baus is also the same. He has his way of winning (Strat). But it is only/mostly meant for solo queue + people being tilted makes sense. But for sure being AFK like what caedrel said is another problem.
@@millionelectricvolts6117 not really cos this strat is not good enough to carry him out of Master. Baus strat is proven workable on different champions and you can reach challengers with them. It's not a bad strat like this one.
14:40 I played ww mid a couple times when I was playing yone in low elo for fun and yone would get picked away, the champ is pretty much a punching bag for the first bit in lane cant really trade because the distance between towers is 5 feet but it kinda goes hard in certain scenarios you can run back to lane with 500 ms from somebody top or mid triggering your passive and roams on overextended side lanes are extremely EXTREMELY easy
Another react to that round but no coverage of the champion selection again ffs, which is the key point imo. like putting that bard otp on the side for a moment i just can't see any justification for that zyra jungle pick here which puts it onto the SAME level as the bard top pick. Unless you have atleast one lane that's dominant early on you should not pick zyra jungle because nobody can and will help you when the invade stuff happens. also on the head-to-head comparison brand is just infinetly better then zyra until maybe very very late stages of the game (plants hate fire). IMHO he's as much at fault as everyone else involved in this lost game.
can't wait for caedrel to play with baus for a competitive season and his hypocrisy will show up. Wasn't he complaining before that his toplaner in XL (Kryze) wanted to play Kayle and other selfish toplaners on stage all the time? Why isn't that a strat? Why weren't they adjusting to him? Just because it was proplay? Also there was once a game where my teammates went for 3 trollpicks. I got tilted and went for a ghost cleanse bard jg to complete the troll team. Even tho we were all hating each other in draft, noone was talking in game we all just played. And we won and I was useful. Hit a lot of bard ults, roamed, I even stole a drake from an incompetent opponent jg. Does that make this strategy viable? Ofc not. I even put down my Senna supp even tho i loved playing her and i was good at her because I felt like my adc's are hating it (with reason) and I wanted to fulfill the expectations and play "valid supports".
It’s one thing to “find your way to play and climb by winning games”, but the counter argument can also be made for all the matches he has ruined for his “style of gameplay” where he made his team lose. The fact that the game is EXPLAINED by RIOT as one way and players are forced to CHANGE at a split notice, not preplanned ahead of time in a ranked game is mental.
Nah I am on Agurin’s side on this. You might not like that he went AFK but when one person is essentially ruining the experience for your team and making it so other people don’t get to enjoy the game because it’s a “off meta strategy” that’s such a dumb argument. In the Buas’ case he would go back and show in post games that he WAS generating a gold lead for himself despite “inting” because there was definitive logic and evidence to support that his strategy worked. This guy is just sacking his lane to soak up xp from another lane and try to generate a lead there but it’s one shared between 3 people but two of them are essentially supports. Meanwhile the enemy top just plays farming simulator, cuts off the top side jungle for your team and keeps every grub and herald for his team. It is essentially trolling with extra steps and people shouldn’t be forced to play with people like that, it’s supposed to be a competitive matchmaking game at high elo not “I hope I don’t get stuck with some one trick troll who’s going to ruin the game for us because they THINK they’re smart.”
@@ono1113 more than likely it’s a result of his MMR being floored and him not actually playing at a “high elo level” because while we don’t know the full details of MMR we can pretty confidently say that it works similarly to the elo system of chess. You are given elo based on the placement of other people, because when magifelix made rank 1 and stockpiled accounts at the top of challenger in EU, high elo players were getting drastically lower elo games as a result. So while his strategy worked in lower elo levels, it likely also screwed his MMR ranking so while climbing he wasn’t actually playing against good players. Like what nemesis said, once you play actual good players the strategy just falls flat on its face because it’s not actually a good strategy.
IF agurin gets banned, every player that goes afk constantly in a 2:10 game ratio needs to get banned too, but everyone knows that is not going to happen
Years ago there wasnt even a support character or a jungler. There wasnt even a dragon. The support funneling adc was a strategy that changed the game (for the worse) back when there was super over powered engage supports (alistar leona) and they funneled hyper over powered adcs and won some tournaments and all of the sudden riot fucked the whole game up and decided like yeah we're going to make this the standard for the game.
I think a big part of it is also just not wanting to adjust. agurin also sees peole invading still goes there. doesnt adjust his playstyle and expects them to play his game. He expects the others to adjust to him and doesn't want to adjust to their playstyle. If there is a pick that loses top I get it sucks but they win some games if you stop trying you will never win yk. Just play it out, he knows what he should be doing and doesnt do it
"I've been playing the same game for years, the same way in a general sense, how dare you change my game?" I think Agurin is an adc main in heart, they have this mentality. Crying about a couple mages going into their role, meanwhile adc role has half as many played champions than literally any other role.
True that agurin didn't adjust, He shouldn't afk and should just play it out, but the Bard is just as guilty of refusing to adjust as he is. You can't expect your whole team to change and adjust around you while changing nothing for them. He plays this strat every game that forces his teammates to deal with it or lose. With both players dead set in their ways and only playing the way they want to was pretty much a guaranteed loss.
Bardinette forces this playstyle every single game no matter the circumstance if bard is banned he picks some other shtlike malphite and does the same, no matter his own team comp no matter enemy team comp no matter the general circumstances of the game, so why TF would you ever speak about the jgl not adjusting
He is innovating something? The game is dynamic? This is not low elo. These are people hard grinding high elo. And saying that it's ok to play in a way that screws 4 members of your team is mindblowing .Worse take I've ever heard. Everything in the game is built to push you into play it in a certain way. that's why you have high elo meta champs, and low elo meta champs. And you can't even compare this to Baus, he plays the TOP lane in a certain way. Been Absent in your lane is not playing your lane, is playing however you want expecting everyone to play around you.
People complain about league being stale, but when people try to innovate, they get flamed and mass reported. He's in the same ELO as you, so if you think him and his strat suck, that says a lot about you as well then since hes the same ELO. People only want innovation in theory, but in practice will hate it since this is what it looks like. You dont find new or strong strats/picks without trying it somewhere. EDIT: The pick Agurin is playing in this clip (Zyra jungle) was something that would have gotten you flamed for last month, but now hes playing it because its OP when nothing changed from then to now. Someone innovated and tried Zyra jungle and found it was OP and now it spread. The entire way people expect league to be played now is due to people innovated and deviating from the "standard" way of playing (duo bot and junglers was an innovation from players and not something riot forced)
coinflipping isnt a innovative way you could say the same by picking belveth EVERYONE knows youre invading raptors is that innovative? no just roaming all way is not innovative youre comparing a champ thats the best at full clearing that has a sense and arguments versus weee i go roam wtf you talking?
There is a line between innovative and int. That bard guy would probably be challenger if he played normally, he is just good enough to be 500LP on anything. Zyra got some buffs that made her able to clear, so people tried it and it worked. Roaming top came from a poor state of toplane. Funneling was invented by boosters to make a super champion, that happened to become op. Lane swaps came from trying to find ways to dodge matchups. Innovation has rationale behind it. This guy played 300+ games, it's not like he is unaware that the strategy is bad, he just has fun with it.
If Bard can make it to and stay in Masters, as Caedral said, there is something valid about that play-style. It is in the top top top percent of the entire player-base. And Nemesis saying “it only works to a certain LP point.” Is that not what that elo is? If you don’t wanna play with it, just be better than that LP level. “Master 500 LP is silver quality.” Just copium, most of the player base can only DREEEAAAMM of reaching that high of a level.
having different playstyle and knowing how to win with it is as deserving that elo as some random standard meta player of same elo. It only shows that they cover their weakness in some way superior to standard player.
"He has a decent winrate in SoloQ" has to be the dumbest argument ever. All 9 other players suffer, in that sense, should toxic people with positive W/R not be banned? They make the game miserable but still have decent W/R in SoloQ?
4:00 bard fks the sup item stuff gives grubs and top jng The "int sion" or most he plays gets push gets plates deny enemy the plates gets jng or sup pressure and accelerate gold This bard makes the game 4v6 has he lowers the team gold and gives a insane gold lead to enemy Janna made double sup item nerfed and was able to stop plates (or lower it) now we dont see it has double sup item needs a very very low gold sup (half item at 20+ min in) 17:03 flash for flash zyra and bard dies (or bard flashes too and leaves zyra to die with no chance for 1 for 1)
It is a DIFFERENCE BETWEEN META LIKE JANNA TOP WITH SMITE OR EZREAL SMITE MID and a person WHO plays Bard top like nearly no one else. Is he serious about this argument? Comparing META to something like what Bardinette does?
Nah, for once I really do not agree with Caedrel’s take. Yeah it worked in Master, but once you hit higher elo with real players, professional, meta-induced, high mechanical play, it just doesn’t work. You’re refusing to abide by the fundamental aspect of current league of legends by not laning and giving up a large influx of gold and pushing it onto your teammates. By the specific game state of that game, every play Bardinette roamed and accessed KP, the gold didn’t matter because it went to champions who are useless and can not potentially raise the game to a win. Let me be serious here, the Bardinette style gameplay is 100% tone deaf, bar none. Again, there is merit to liberty and diversity to how you want to play the game, but isolating those small instances in contrast to high Grandmaster/C1 mmr is nothing of the same logistical standard. Agurin imo is justified.
@@Skaterptater teams got same mmr, dude picks zyra, so basically ints, then ints, complains, complains, ints, goes afk... is there something I missed? I'm not challenger like you, so there might be something I missed tho.
that bard might play the game differently and it might work in some games. but his strat is to surrender top and play as second support for ur mid or jungle and give them a huge lead in exchange for u beein giga weak in comparism. the point agurin has here is, if he fails at this crucial point, this game ist auto lost. agurin even said it issnt about the bard top it is about them straight inting the same time. u cant play off meta strats who deserve a certain win condition and fail that hard to get that conmdition and expect ur mates to play out a 100% lost game.
this is a bad take from caedrel. what this guy is doing isn't just an 'off meta' strat. he's basically trading the POSSIBILITY of helping other lanes for the INEVITABILITY that the enemy top laner is going to be huge. top will have no prio, so top side jungle is just perma-off limits. you lose grubs. you lose herald. by the time baron is even in play, either the game is totally over or you have zero control of baron. this is the equivalent of going to play pickup basketball, and once you're in game you go 'oh btw team i only shoot half court shots and if you don't pass me the ball to do so, i won't play defense so you're effectively down a man.' the fact that ANYONE defends this behavior is digusting.
"this is the equivalent of going to play pickup basketball, and once you're in game you go 'oh btw team i only shoot half court shots and if you don't pass me the ball to do so, i won't play defense so you're effectively down a man.'" It's not an equivalent by any means. In basketball, this strategy wouldn't get you into any good team. You legit wouldn't even be playing. Bardinette tho, is playing at a really high level, legit 0.1% of playerbase, so his strategy works, even if you dislike it. I really find it disgusting how many people dislike unconvential playstyles, but to each their own I guess.
@@verloreneseele8898 he's playing in pub matches. he is not playing pro. that is the difference. he is a 1 trick that utilizes a troll strategy that ruins games and he only wins because his champ is useful in spite of completely ceding top lane. the analogy is totally accurate. it's not my fault you're not smart enough to logically connect the two.
ok guys so look bardenette used to post a doc in the champ select before in the document it legit said "the enemy will get to inhib pre 15 but its ok" how is that ok so you say a bard with 0 cs level what 6 can compare to a renekton with full cs 3 towers all platings level 16 no thats not how league works and he does force people to play his strat because he also had in the doc that if you ban his bard he will lock in a champ he has 22% winrate on so that is threatening people to play his way of league league is a team based game not a solo player based game him running it down will mean the whole team will break apart. while i might agree if he gets the adc fed enough they can beat the toplaner but then how often can you make the adc as fed as a free farming toplaner with all platings and 3 towers maybe once every what 20-30 games and then you need to remember he doesn't only let the enemy top get to free farm he also steals alot of exp from the mid and bot and makes it so the jungler has no pressure to take his top side if the jungler goes to his topside jungle he will get collapsed on if the players know what they are doing
Losing an inhib before 20 is actually good. He doesnt force his team to play around him, he is the one to play around his botlane and jungler so they can beat the fed toplaner later on. The thing is that he puts all his responsability of being a toplaner on his jungler and adc. + his strat is working cuz he is master so that aint inting
@@erwangoasdoue1721 you have a tumor if you think that losing a inhib at 20 min is good you also have a extra tumor for thinking his strategy is a decent one
Nemesis saying bard’s teammates did not consent to play the game this way so it’s wrong of him when he’s been friends with baus and defending him and his playstyle for years is kinda hypocritical tbh
@@person-pl5gt but they are just two completely different playstyles with one clearly being infinitely better and more successful. watch the whole nemesis video for more context
"Forcing playstyle" is such a bad argument. Do I consent to my laners having a bad game and going 0/10? Do I consent to my jungler perma full clearing? The reason why people are so addicted to this game is because every game is different, you have to adapt to each game. Every game you are "forced" to play a certain way because of factors that are outside of your control. The fact that someone can even do a strategy like this and succeed is a testament to the creativity that is possible within League of Legends.
Don't know about other takes, about this one? He is not, he says he does not agree with majority, how is that neutral? Also, it's not black and white argument, if you have an opinion about a league argument it can be different by many layers
As long as your team is actually trying to win, which the Bard is, then fucking play the game out and don't be a baby. Sure, it's annoying to play with, but so are loads of normal strategies. It doesn't matter if something is "good" or "bad" they are in your elo for a reason so stop crying and play the game. If the strat is bad then they'll just rank below you so no worries.
Man i wish you had all 3 lanes lose hard by the time its 5 mins. You lost half of your jungle and the top lane is so far behind it would take you at least 3 people to stop 1. There was no point in playing that particular game. None. They werent gonna win even if Faker himself subbed in. Dont be a baby, accept the loss and move on. There was zero reason to spend anymore time on that game.
@@toniyakovlev4403 you have tier 1 pro teams that make minimal mistakes throw 10k + infernal soul leads pretty often. There is 100% a chance they can win that game if agurin isnt a crybaby and afks
8:36 baus making raid boss everygame is already something very shitty to have （he‘s doing better since he ditched sion） having these kinda bard and teemo makes the game a suffer simulator, can’t really agree with this take
okay but if you want to play the game I play for fun in a way that makes it borderline unplayablle for me, then I think its objcetively reasonable for me to make the decision to either hop off or in most of the times limit test. I don't think doing anything out of malice to make the bard's day worse is good but at the same time when the game is in a state where I am both unfamiliar and disatvantaged I think its fairly reasonable for me to make durastic plays and even in the case I go 0/20 I shouldn't be held liable since I was simply doing what i understand to be the most reasonable play in the situation
Im Baus no.1 hater but im gonna say Baus is not like Bardinette at all. Baus even when he goes full inting strat still work with normal league formula. Yes his team now gonna deal with fed top laner and potentially need to play 4 vs 5 but they are still playing normal league. What Bardinette do is forcing the entire team to play his version of league instead cos there is no top laner but support roamer it basically like playing with lane swap but only the top laner does it. Edit: idk why Caedrel love bad strat so much and doesnt call it for what it is.
Nah the emotional person here is Caedrel. The game was unplayable and it didn‘t matter wether he pretended to not be afk by playing or to go afk and do something else. Nemesis was 100% right. The drama is also especially insane considering this is the first time he goes afk and only after trying for several minutes, meanwhile many streamer like Tyler1 frequently go afk and even logout mid game to login with a new account to continue playing.
If it works, it works, and he wouldn't be masters if it didn't work. Literally climbs higher roaming bard top than 99% of the commenters complaining about it do on their main role and champ
thanks to Caedrel, he gave me the confidence to play illaoi adc and start roaming lvl 1
He doesn't care if it's bad cos he will not see it in his game lol. It's easy to say "that cool strat my man" then you play with it then you hate your life.
@@nabkill0134 but he is right though, how can people find new strats and new ways to play if everyone cries when someone tries something new ?
@@vlbluu124 why should I lose lp because someone is so eager to try something new? As neme said, it works to some extent, yasuo jngl gonna work in plat, so what? The way high elo works is completely different. You can try something new as much as you want, but let it happen in normals
@@vlbluu124 if you go to iwdominate's video he has a good point for that argument.
riot actively refuses to allow these new strats, hence why they nerfe every single deviation of the norm, cause that is not how they want the game to be played.
baus strat was nerfed, yi+taric was nerfed, plates were added against perma roaming and so on
@@nikg7126 yeah but those players that have a unique strat continue to play their strat even after nerfs, that's why baus still plays sion to this day, and other OTPs / unique players continue.
Some people play to have fun and their fun is playing their way
Played against Bardinette in my Master promo game once at the end of the season, thanks to him I got a free win :D
yea that guy needs to be perma'd
Playes vs him once. He died lvl1 botside, he died 3 times toplane. He was 0/4 at 5min. Enemy Jungle and bot went afk. Totally understandable.
I had to reread, i though you won with him. Gratz on masters.
He’s 54% WR
@@gammie8191 Doesnt change the fact that he makes the game horrible to play. Its just a disgusting playstyle.
2:10 Getting rickrolled by chat classic
The best part is you can hear him typing "/ban" right after he closes the video.
So I watched the entire VOD to get context of what happened in the first 5 minutes...
At first I thought Agurin shouldn't AFK... but holy that game was so completely unplayable. He gets permainvaded starting level 1 and his bard/malphite/pyke are all straight up griefing.
I literally closed the VOD after malphite dying level 1 against trynda in mid XD basically 3 pigs in same team with agurin, they grief the drafts & match and people expect you to play.
Finally someone who sees the whole picture unlike the silver redditors
Doesnt matter, afking is against the rules and streamers should be held to higher standards as what they do influences their viewers behavior too.
@@atreyes Agurin had two options in the game:
Getting perma invaded and barely getting any camps (as Zyra) and probably dying or going afk. What sounds better?
@atreyes so if he was pathing like a bot just not to get afk warning you would be fine with this situation? Lol
pedro defending this bard guy like he is the shy
Lol
So if agurin makes a support account, but he doesnt play support and instead double jungles its fine? Im sure hed easily be able to get around 500lp with that. But since he wins games and got to his elo doing that we are ok with him ruining the game for his jungle and adc?
This. Just because you can get a strat to master doesn't mean it good. Most challenger player could pick random strat and get it to master.
@@nabkill0134thats exactly what he is saying, same goes with that bard player, he is good enough to get high elo with it but it doesnt mean its fun for the others, it must feel like shit playing with open top in higher elos
@@nabkill0134exactly. Theres a reason he cant get past masters
as long as he is winning?
@@andreasioannides5780 I mean yuumi isn't fun to play with so should picking yuumi be a instant ban?
10:51 this part is so crazy to hear. Caedrel said like Bardinette is just a guy playing a game, why is it his fault.
mf warped the game with his playstyle. how the fuck it's not his "fault". People can debate whether the whole playstyle is trolling. Maybe if Agurin didn't afk, their botside might have enough leads to eventually win the game. Maybe he "caused" the situation in neutral terms but it's not trolling, so we should not use the word "fault"?
To me, Caedrel is just saying "Anyone can play anything", which is true but thinking that people should not blame the guy and get upset is pretty weird. Excessive toxicity is one thing but saying your strategy sucks is also a thing that people can do.
Yeah, you can say it sucks, but it obviously doesnt. He's better than like 99% of league players right? and thats consistency. I'm just bad at the game and I play meta. I must be griefing since im not high elo.
@@nightcall6386Right but getting upset with a guy because they have poor macro, poor mechanics wtv (like everyone below GM-Chal) is one thing. Getting upset because a guy on your team said fuck you mid jg, you will guaranteed be behind so I can coinflip bot, also their top is gonna be giga ahead. Its a conscious decision versus just being inexperienced at the game.
@@nightcall6386 But, you are wholly missing the nuance of this situation versus the remaining 99% of league players. These are all generally relatively well matched games. Bardinette to his teammates and enemies is really no different from you or I and our teammates. So, the fact that we the 99% suck ass this game doesn't even matter.
The actual problem with players like Bardinette is purposefully playing a non-optimal playstyle that completely puts your team behind for the majority of the game while giga boosting the enemy top laner. Bardinette is good enough to just play a normal top or even fucking bard support and he will still win games, probably more games without pissing everyone on his team off for no reason. This play style does actually suck because tactics like this has been nerfed out of the game to ensure a more traditional laning playstyle. It doesn't work as well as just playing the game properly. He is only winning games because either his bot lane gets to pop off even with mid and jungle severely behind thanks to Bardinette OR the enemy team crumbles in their own griefing and toxicity. He also only wins because he himself is actually not a bad bard player, just his playstyle is dogshit.
You can't just look at him playing with people with similar or lower skill level and winning with a dogshit playstyle, and assume that his playstyle is actually working. There are so many morons that fail to replicate Baus's Sion gameplay in Iron, Bronze, Silver, Gold, etc. and they fucking suck at it. But guess what? They are actually as good as the people they are facing or maybe even slightly better, so sometimes they just win through sheer mechanical dominance and consistently stick around their elo with no downward movement. But, these kinds of people also don't climb that much from their elo because even if they are mechanically good enough, they are just not playing correctly to climb. Bardinette is the same. He is probably a challenger player easy, but he chooses to play the game completely wrong, piss his teammates off, and coin flip games. If this was the best way to play top or even bard, bard and this tactic would be a massive issue that needs to be nerfed just like Baus's Sion was/is. But it isn't, this is one of the worst ways to play either.
Just imagine if Tilterella played in EU, there’d be so much more bitching and complaining than here in OCE.
I doubt anyone would notice since he wouldn't get above diamond in eu
Bruv, I got masters in OCE recently and I’ve played against Tilterella multiple times. He inted every game. First game I’m like “woah did I just play against tilterella?” After 4th 5th game I’m like this guys a filthy inter.
Whenever I see his name in loading screen I know he’s gonna mega int 4 times out of 5. Idk in the past but rn he’s very bad
How is tilterella climbing in korea then
@@peterpieterssen36bruh hes almost chall in kr eu is dogass
@@sungnankang Because he's actually quite good.
The weird thing is caedrel says to bardinette '' you do you buddy'' but the other 4 player in his team are doing their own thing and playing the game in a traditional way. So why would i forced to play the bardinette version of the game instead of the traditional way? Him playing the 4 players' version is better for 4 people but him playing his own way is only better for him. We just shouldn't make up excuses for the inters.
He is not inting, he just plays his own way. If you can't play with him, then it's one loss, move on, it's not like you are gonna play with him for 10 straight games... He is just one guy out of the thousands of meta Andy players that plays "normally". League is a game where every player can play their own way, your teammates might not like it but if it's what works for you then who are they to make you stop? This is why league becomes toxic, some people play differently and yall want to crucify them. Like bruh, imagine if no one tried lane swapping, pro play would be stale, it had been the same champs over and over for 3 years, until lane swap meta changed how teams play. It's like in the NBA when the warriors won by using the three point shot, no one believed they could do it, but when they did, every other team started copying them. Innovations in games won't happen if you don't have these people that play differently from the meta.
@@crudojoshuaricofort8795 so i think you have a problem seeing things in this video and heres why: As a jungler, are you able to farm/gank with 3 people constantly in your jungle and taking camps without any help from the "non-stale" player like him? Let me remind you that the game in the video is high Master which everyone in that game know how to macro/micro so can you even make any play from your role if that bard is not with/helping you? Spamming hundreds of game to get to GM doesnt make him A GRANDMASTER PLAYER, it just people in lower elo are so clueless so he thinks that his playstyle is working, not because of it actually good to play in high elo. It just straight up a fact in that video: they have a level 7 renekton full csing and plates against your level 4 bard and you think its make the game not stale? Innovations my asscheek bro
It’s not inting though he’s trying to win? And wins enough to climb to high elo. You being frustrated at a play style ≠ bannable. The point of ranked is to win games and if he’s winning more than 99.99% of league players then who are we to tell him how to play? It’s fair game when you’re not bug abusing or scripting.
@@crudojoshuaricofort8795The difference between entire professional teams proposing and agreeing on innovative strats and a single guy going "hold on, lemme cook" and then proceeding to underperform and make the game unfun for everyone else is huge though.
Also, it's not like Riot doesn't try to weed out the off the rails strategies, like lane swapping, inting Sion or Smite Janna, so it's pretty clear they also don't like when things get too weird.
I get it, it's just a game and sometimes it works, but please let's not give the guy cookies for "being creative" and "doing his own thing".
I never knew the game has rules how it must be played, whats next? you cant invade jungle because thats not traditional? You must 5v5 every objective because thats traditional? you must pick ranged designated adc as adc because thats traditional? ziggs gets you banned because you force 4 people to play without adc thats just excuse for inters
How the fuck is making four teammates suffer not toxic? Does it matter that he's in that ELO? Why do pro players hate Ady? You can literally hit rank 1 and be a 1500 LP challenger player and pro players still don't respect Ady or think his strategy is real.
And he went challengers league and gets bodied by all of them, exactly what you said :)
@@andreasioannides5780 if his strat is bad then why he is rank 1 challenger in the most skilled region? or did he just coinflip his way to rank 1 korea?
@@davidsamy Rank is just your ability to win, nothing to do with how you get to that point. A challenger player can just sprint it mid of spawn and feed a kill, proceed to play normal and still get challenger. Does that mean it's good to die on spawn every game? No. That's the worst argument you could ever give.
@@kristianvukajlovic6789 that is not valid comparison, roaming toplaners were always a thing either 2 years ago when Janna top smite was rolling the soloQ with 60% winrate or back in the days where River Shen/Thresh was played, these strats don't always work just like any other picks/ team-comps your teammates force in the champ select
@@davidsamy It's obviously an exaggeration, I don't even know what the Ady guy did, but the argument he achieved A so B is good doesn't hold. "if his strat is bad then why he is rank 1 challenger in the most skilled region?" - because he is just good at soloq, doesn't mean what he does is optimal.
I've straight up seen Tyler1 alt+tab out of a game then log into a new account to play agian lmao this isn't even bad dude
yeah but agurin just looks like a lil bitch doing it, theres are difference
Everyone has that moment, where they dont wanna play the game, cuz the teams losing so hard and be done with it.. so just afk. People just wanna find someone to villanize someone lmao.
Because tyler is/was known for being the most toxic mf in the game. He has changed.
Agurin always plays the white knight. And if he is wrong, he simply isnt , because hes rank 1.
Now the white knight does shit, he gets punished for it
@@isoldmymumforrp5371 This is true but also to an extent I think the lol streamer space is so down bad for drama and content that they will find any excuse to call somebody out for some shit and get everybody in the space to talk about it, literally every time lol creators cross paths at this point is when its drama or drama analyzation
As far as I’m concerned that’s the same thing lol. Same damn result. Man the fuck up and finish the game or don’t play at all. I don’t get how this community has any tolerance for this. Like we can have a conversation about what the bard is doing being toxic or troll, but there should be zero tolerance for leaving the game. The fact that you guys can even entertain that is laughable.
Dam this is really an L take from caedrel. Smite janna top worked because top became a low impact lane 2 years ago after the tp nerfs which made it so that if your bot lane was ganked, there was no real way for top to help them. Janna smite top was abused to set both enemy jglers and enemy bot laners behind and put ALL of your teammates ahead. Mid and bot will be ganked and jg will either have faster obj and clear speed with jannas smite or it will annoy and put the enemy jgler behind. Bot lane and jg were also by far the strongest roles and janna also had great utility and peel. Tht combined with powerful support items, a low impact top lane, strong jg and bot lane meta combined once again with a great peeler/shieldbot/slow/healbot support made it so that you gained more than you lost. Also bounty systems were absolutely broken back then since it gave the enemy a big shutdown since they were farming cs and you werent. Janna smite top was an actual viable good strat with an average of 57 pecent win rate in high elo back then. Yi taric was also broken and actually viable since there really isnt much that you can do vs that combination at that time. But this bard top is 50 percent win rate running around the map probably only tickling the enemy and caedrel is defending him. If someone can get to masters, i would say that they have an understanding of the game. Just imagine if this bard got a real champ top and actually played the game.
THIS
The difference with Baus' playstyle is that Baus does lane "normally", he is in top lane, he doesn't choose to sack every wave, 5 plates, grubs and his junglers' top side because haha funni champ can go weeee in wall
Yeah Idk how people are defending this bardinette guy.... NOBODY wants to play with him, literally not a single person.
He's like "I'm trying my hardest to win even though I pick bard top!" But like... if you're "trying your hardest to win" why the hell are you picking bard top in the first place.
@@TH-dg2mm If he did this strategy with a "normal" top lane champion, I would be saying the same thing. He legitimately decides that his team should find a way to play with 2/3rds of the gold and exp that the map produces, because top lane waves are never collected. Nobody on his team agreed with this idea, he forces everyone to play the way he wants
@@Pyrrha_NikosIkr? This guy should be gold no? Why is he in masters?
@@Pyrrha_Nikos I mean the other problem is that you can't just pick this cheese shit with every team comp.
They have bard top and Malphite mid... that means you have 2 champions that do NOTHING early.
Like if you have a super strong early game mid laner you can get away with it, because if you're super strong mid laner rotates to that raptor fight you can in 3v3... but malphite does nothing before level 6.
So you have a bard roaming permanently to help a mid laner who can't do anything anyways.
Just a complete joke.
Yeah but Janna top was not laning normally, and once people figured out how to play around it, it was being used in professional games. Funneling Master Yi is not playing normally, but again, same thing... eventually pros are doing it because they think it offers best chance to win. Just because most people haven't figured out how to utilize it doesn't mean it's trolling or it shouldn't be allowed.
"if I put enough time into chess, I can become a chess prodigy" lmao that is the opposite of being a prodigy
*Peaks 1700 elo
"I have become a chess prodigy 😎"
well chess is just a "game" where the only thing that matters is repetition and practice, and it has been proven. some random chess gm experimented with his 2 daughters from birth, building their entire lives around chess, practicing the skills they would need in order to be good at chess with them at a very young age and would you look at that both of them ended up being grandmasters and one of the sisters is the greatest female chess player of all time, judit polgar.
in most things in life you simply cant be a prodigy, its just that you developed certain skills during your early childhood that ended up aligning well with the thing that you are a "prodigy" at.
Riot already stated before that a strategy that forces your team to play around you will get you banned. There was a support Singed with smite that got banned for it some years ago and that one only forced your adc to play solo.
@@xBox360BENUTZER so picking bard support and roaming should be bannable? Or just picking yuumi should instantly ban you? I remember one time our mid saying he's reporting our senna for playing fasting senna and me the support for taking the CS.
He plays around his botside so i dont understand how his team is forced to play around him. Why is botlane complaining when they have a free ganker to help them?
@@MrWizardjr9 honestly Yuumi should be deleted. As for Bard support pick, it's not necessarily a problem as long as he communicates that he is gonna pick Bard so adc can pick something safe like Ezreal or Cait.
But there is no way, this "drama" is so relevant. Like hello? Agurin just went AFK 1 game I don't see the big deal. If he fed and went AFK or went AFK lvl 1 i could see the big deal but it's just not. TLDR version is Agurin went AFK in an unwinnable game and people act like this is the new german painter of the 21st century
I'm reminded of the one guy who played Singed support with Smite who did something similar (just ran around roaming, helping the jungle farm faster, and counterjungling) and I'm pretty sure Riot banned/warned him to stop not because he wasn't allowed to to pick Singed support, but because his playstyle just completely screwed over his ADC and forced him to 1v2. Which would work fine if the ADC was in any way capable or prepared to do so.
Basically, Riot has a history of stopping people from playing unorthodox strategies that negatively affect your team.
Double jungle still goes hard.
The problem isn't that he is playing an off meta strat. The problem is he is FORCING his teammates against their will to play with an off meta strat. Riot disincentivized dodging, there should be a way to get out of champion selects with players like this so teammates do not need to suffer through playing his style.
To the Baus argument he proxies the wave causing the enemy laner to either chase them stopping the proxy or take the wave, It is impacting the two players laning against each other. Comparing it to this case where the Renekton free pushes the lane can gain gold from platings/Roam/deep ward/reset he has complete free reign of what he wants to do. He can impact other lanes or get so monstrously ahead from platings and deep ward the topside jungle to make it impossible for Zyra to play.
From my POV can it work? Yes, it would be great into tank matchups like Ornn being able to punish his inability to move and limited tower killing power. HOWEVER this guy does it every single game no matter the matchup, its not a "Strategy" at that point. The guy is forcing his playstyle upon others negatively impacting their experience playing them game, it is not fun to play with from experience and Riot need to implement a way of leaving champion select so they can opt out of being forced to play with players like this while they are "innovating".
Really like Caedrel but hate his take on this enabling more people to do these "strategies" so that 1 person has fun and is "innovating" while the other 9 people have to suffer.
"Forcing playstyle" is such a bad argument. Do I consent to my laners having a bad game and going 0/10? Do I consent to my jungler perma full clearing? The reason why people are so addicted to this game is because every game is different, you have to adapt to each game. Every game you are "forced" to play a certain way because of factors that are outside of your control.
The fact that someone can even do a strategy like this and succeed is a testament to the creativity that is possible within League of Legends.
@@amnesiac2796 That's even worse argument. Do I consent to people I don't like/don't agree with have right to speak? Do I consent those people has access to internet? Do I consent to the fact you absolutly missed the point and you just mumbling?
It's different to adjust accordingly between games that are in general sense played similarly and it's different to flip the entire game upside down because one player decided it. And as it's pointed out, it's not about the fact he's playing it, it's about the fact he's playing it no matter what. If it was a matter of choice, if he was playing it in certian situations when neccessary criteria are met, people wouldn't care for the most part. BUT HE IS DOING IT EVERY GAME! Which is ironic because he is not adjusting his playstyle at all.
And btw, I'm "forced" to read stupid comments like yours and live with the knowledge that people that has nothing in common with logic exists. :')
get a job
Yea, wait till you get yourself a bard top in your promo game that runs around like a clown. Then you'll realise. People defending him just merely haven't played with this kind of strat.
@@ThePolishViking then elo should reflect that. If it's so int, then let MMR place him. If you don't like how that works, blame Riot.
Even though Caedrel argument is valid, IWillDominate made a counter argument stating that Riot Games has been CONSISTENT at nerfing unorthodox playstyles like janna top, support items on other lanes, thebaus playstyle (as Caedrel pointed out) therefore Riot does not want to you to be a 24/7 roaming top laner, you must lane in the top lane as designed and when you play like bard it is reasonably accepted to just go afk since not even riot likes it.
I would like to add that Bard messages every lobby that he is a bard top followed by a powerpoint hence people shouldn't expect standard league of legends as it is not a surprise and can dodge or adapt by not pick high resource junglers. IMO
Open to arguments, please be reasonable!
EDIT: typos and phrasings
So? Fuck Riot, who cares what riot wants new playstyles are fun and can advance the game but riot comes in and stops anything that is even a bit fun.
I believe you mean unorthodox.
@@Raymuklol you don't even know how this strat and you just jump in. "Riot try to stop fun strat" they stop the strat because it is only fun for the user at the expense of the team.
@@nabkill0134 oh yes thank you!
@@Raymuk When you say 'a bit fun', I would like to remind you that almost no one likes this playstyle as it is frustrating as expressed by majority (streamers or players).
2:09 xdd
since when pedro is a random bard onetrick lawyer xdd
idk why he is sucking a bard roaming top inter
he got bardinette in his lobby once where the bard went 3/4/27 and the team won 46-14, he's been converted into a believer
@@plebbutter3811bro got converted to a believer for hitting heads in one try gg
because he is being hated on for no reason, you just dont agree with the wawy they play the game and thats why you flame them, while the people that are keeping the game interesting and alive are the same offmeta onetricks that you are flaming, happychimenoises isnt thriving for no reason, baus is the face of league, kesha, elosanta, dantes, all these guys play their champs differently and that is the reason they became popular in the first place.
@@zezanje1probably the dumbest thing I’ve read so far. Him playing bard has nothing to do with it, its how he plays
Nice Take there at 02:09 . Props
considering Caedral is/ was a really good high elo player this take is wrong on so many levels that it hurts my head
Bro! So many waves are lost top - so much XP and money for the entire team! How can this be a good strat lol! Sure, sometimes on lower elo you get some kills and get the game rolling cause you're much better in the game in general but most of the time you just suck your laners XP and create 4v5 like in Augurin's game... you shouldn't force your teammates to agree to that...
He gets permainvaded starting level 1 and his bard/malphite/pyke are all straight up griefing and dying, as zyra that is straight up unplayable at that point. But yes I think we should defend the bard guy and his funny strat, forcing this entire game to be this way in the first place even before people started inting.
Next time I play top I’ll just go take mid waves after I shove top wave. It’s not griefing my mid laner, this is the innovative new strat where I get all the gold and carry. If my mid has problems about it I’ll just tell them to adapt to my strat and go low econ.
if the strategy works and you get 50+% wr then go for it, SOLOQ should be adaptative, if you want a well thought out strategy and perfect plays, go play 5 team flex
@@jinzo-senpai2974are we just gonna expect our team to instantly adapt every game 🤷🤷
Bro lane swap Mate almost do this;top lane gets nothing, you give all the resources and plates to adc.
@@philcabauatan9089 Yes. It's solo q. So every game is pretty different. Adapt and win or lose to it the next game.Well if Clusterrockets strat does work. It's not uncommon. Their have been so many funnel strats that it doesn't even sound troll imo.
@@jinzo-senpai2974 I mean, I'll go AP Talon when you do that. Play around it.
People should just yolo buy mobis and run with bard together in this guys games, new addition to the strat (hidden OP). Literally an EGO battle
The roaming janna top was only working because of how the bounty system worked at time, like the team with roaming top would perma have bounties on objectives. But afterwards they nerfed it because rito found it to be a toxic playstyle
THANK YOU CAEDREL. FINALLY SOMEONE WITHA SENSIBLE TAKE ON THE SITUATION.
The reason Bard is just bad in thiscase is that the team doesn't get an advantage from it. Janna would make it so her team got Objective bounties early which evened out the gold but also had the Janna roaming pressure. Baus's playstyle makes it so he trades gold (hence the Bausen's Law) while opening up toplane little by little. Bard just roams and hopes enemy team is stupid enough to not punish anything he does so he can win which in upper elos, is not gonna happen. And as said by many high elo players, if you keep playing, you will climb, that's why there's so many one-trick in masters/GM, because they just play more games than the average player so the Bard getting to Masters isn't something amazing as he already has over 300 games this split.
Agreed, I feel this strat would be so good with strong pushing sidelanes, but when you’re playing Zyra jungle, you can’t just ignore camps and perma gank. And the fact that it is Malphite mid as well makes the bard pick much worse.
Ppl forget thay baus had alot of game solo carry entire team with his infinite scaling champ, and baus can play meta
No the reason Bard is bad in this case is because the rest of the team inted. Everyone on the team (including Agurin) put themselves in a much worse position then when the game first started and it got out of control quick. All that matters is who kills the Nexus first.
We probably all agree Caedrel made some valid points and Agruin shouldn't have gone AFK, but analyzing the game and looking if it's playable or not still matters imo. It's always about gameplay, especially in competitive high elo. This situation got completely overblown, and everybody is way too drama hungry. People should chill a bit...
I think the problem is that Agurin is such an insufferable crybaby toxic asshole lately.
So when someone who is super toxic does something bad, the entire community jumps on the opportunity.
Like if you've watched Agurin stream since Korea... he literally complains and flames his team nonstop the ENTIRE game and it's EVERY game.
Innovative strats on one side, this playstyle goes against what league of legends is at its core: you have your lanes. They nerfed every startegy that goes against it. Heck, they nerfed Sion passive cause of it.
Secondly, like many have said, Master Elo is not that high to prove strategies like this work. They can help you get to Masters cause people in lower elos do not know to counter it. However, not the case in Master, GM, and Challenger.
That Nubrac argument is just straight revisionism. Nubrac climbed by playing Teemo normally and then started troling with his smite supp nonsense. Bardinette plays Bard top to Grandmaster.
Calling master 500 LP GM is a stretch imma be honest
While sure that argument might sound good on paper, he's 50% wr running it every single game. Not one game isn't coinflip.
I hate Bard, only Keria should play it.
@@Dave-sc2ey he still is consistently at an ELO to play with these people who are complaining. He doesnt just get lucky to reach master 500LP and stay there with this strat.
@@gusti14 Beryl* noob.
You know you're a pretty good guy when the best thing people have against you is that you AFK'd while litteraly being inted :')
I don’t like how people try to push a narrative here.
Agurin is just a human being like everyone else.
He is fed up with this bard and acts emotional, but sometimes that just happens.
Y’all act like you never got overwhelmed by your emotions in your whole life.
It’s maybe not the fine way to go Afk, but honestly I don’t give a sh*t.
I don’t care what other people think in such a situation, because it’s a about me and my well being and if I feel like I’m not allowed to play the game then screw everyone.
If he’s allowed to play his „innovative“ playstyle, I’m also allowed to afk - simple as that.
I agree, League is supposed to make you have fun, but it should be fun for everyone and not only for yourself.
Not only the bard but the malphite and pyke too
Caedral sometimes makes the 'neutral' or 'unemotional' reasonings but that's just so wrong to dismiss people who emotionally provide reasons and arguments. Not having an strong opinion and playing defense for both sides doesn't mean neither party is at fault. For me, this just makes Caedral seem like he thinks he's better because he doesn't care. I know he doesn't actually think that, but it feels similar to how Phreak would dismiss a community because he has the 'unemotional' stats to support his take.
Yeah it’s kinda annoying to see him just go with the most uncontroversial take. If he just doesn’t care then sure whatever but he definitely does come out looking like Bardinette’s lawyer while not committing to it at all in this clip.
@@ariel_801 people like you are the definition of brainrot.
The argument boils down to - is AFKing okay under certain in game circumstances? And my answer to that is always going to be no. You ruin it way more than someone playing some game warping off meta pick.
The game is over, renekton is unkillable and the zyra is too far behind
@@aflowingbrook2919 doesnt matter. play, if lose, move on, dont afk and make it worse cause you are just inting just like your inting teammates already
they FF 15 why does going afk make it worse?
@@cryogelatin1952that’s his strategy to end game faster though
@@thestoebz its a strat to afk and "gg go next"? i dont wanna be your teammate when we play league
My biggest problem with this strat is how much responsibility he puts on the rest of his team. The enemy top is guaranteed to be fed and over leveled, he is basically creating that problem and telling his team that they are the ones who now have to deal with it.
I get that the whole point is he is giving up a lot of his agency over the game too his teammates, But Support is literally a role in the game designed for this very reason and is made to be able to do so pretty much for free. He plays a second support but because he is top instead it comes with the cost of a giga fed enemy top laner.
To be fair I think there are times the strat can work well, if the enemy has a tank top that wont be as dominant with the gold, and if his team is better for late game and scaling but could use the help getting ahead early. But he plays this strat every game regardless of team comp and can cripple his team as often as he helps them. that combined with the fact that when Bard is banned he actually just runs it down shows that this isn't some try hard game plan just a way for him to ruin the game for anyone he can.
Caedrel tries too hard to be diplomatic sometimes.
This sums it up. He’s almost being a leftist sjw, trying to overdefend some minority group. Except in this case bardinette isnt an oppressed minority xd
right? his take is horrible here.
I like his take, better than Nemesis for sure.
@@verloreneseele8898nemesis saying he couldn't flash and live left me stunned, dude is a great player, but this comment is the most incorrect analysis because of bias, I was really disheartened to see it
League players will complain the game is stale and boring and then also complain when somebody does anything differently.
Me when the new thing is coinflipping bot and giving top 5 plates full tower uncontested farm
All I will say is please have a take AFTER you have played a game with him :D
@@fiorane I played with him as jg and it was horrible, our samira lane won vs cait leona and mid was even - but the enemy aatrox scaled too hard pushing 2 towers freely without getting answered. Still since its low master I don't care moving on games aren't your life.
Let me play like this in your game then let's see if your opinion change😊
Nice reactionary take. Have bard top in your team with malphite watching you get 3 manned in your jungle for the whole game and lets see your reaction then.
The most satisfying thing is soft inting your level 1 support roamer. Watching enemy adc two shot them felt sooo good. Good times
if bard top ruined pedro's game no thread gets created.
sincerely hope they get matched together and he can talk about how the innovative strategy just didnt work out this time
He literally played with him already. Not sure how he reacted back then to it. But there is a clip of him having him top and reading his powerpoint
@@XIplupIX He put on circus music and laughed at his teammates running it down. They still somehow won the game. xdd
@@XIplupIXand part of that PowerPoint was a slide that said if bard gets banned then he will lock in illaoi and run it down. His stats on illaoi are 2/7.2/3 btw
They did get matched together, bard went 3/4/27 and the team stomped with a 46-14 scoreline. The toplaner was also hitting t2 at 13 minutes into the game and ended at 3/7. The strat can work, it's why they're higher elo than basically everyone in this comment section.
Do you understand how high elo works? You think Caedrel has never played with him? Caedrel has played thousands and thousands of games in EUW Masters+, and this guy has been up there with him for years now. It's inevitable they will play many games with and against one another. Especially because they play different roles
The bard top is only winning because people arent familiar with his strat but if people figure out who he is and recognize his play style his win rate is going to go down
The weirdest strat I ever played against was a Singed/Nilah duo. They would proxy waves from the second wave on in MY BASE. I told my entire team to just ignore them, my top laner got a free lane, my bot lane won lane hard, the enemy jg was stretched too thin and fell behind, and they died in my base to minion damage or me beating their asses after I backed and spent. It was the most free win I've ever had.
I don't mind personally playing with strange off meta strategies, but it shouldnt be a big surprise that bardinette's teammates are going to be tilted because it is extremely coinflip. Since the strategy is so unorthodox it's obviously very easy for the game to become unplayable for the bard's team
Yeah because the janna strat actually worked. What a shit take by caedrel
Horrible take by Caedrel. he's trying sooo hard to defend this puke
It was good because it was good is your argument. Also the bard is in high elo, clearly it is successful
Like it's so insane, if he managed to climb to master with this pick then it obviously works? It is the objective truth, does it get worse the higher elo you get get? probably. That doesn't change the fact that's it's a viable pick, delusional players.
@@cinas2988 thats because he is good bard player. Has nothing to do with this dogshit strat
@@egozocker14 how do you know? Maybe he gets shit on if he tries to play bard support
4:08 , bro in poland there is a streamer named randombruce, whos stuck on his accounts in diamond elo , or get stucked in master while boosted by his Overpow duo , he got GM while having negative kda every game cuz of winstreaks and lp inflation ,then he get back to d4 , i think bardinette is similar
6:40 it was working because of support item and the bounty system
I think he knows why it worked then
There is a limit to what you can call innovation. I can buy mobis and roam all game as jg and just call it a new strat when it clearly just inting.
And this is not the case of that. Stop making weird excuses.
If roaming Bard top completely griefing the game for everyone else involved is inovation then Agurin going afk so that the enemy team lets their guard down may as well also be a innovative strat
@@xBox360BENUTZER I don't understand how these comments are so wildly against different playstyles. You dont get nearly this mad about iron players do you? They settle where they will go, based on strat and ability. Bard top wins to gm for bardinette, other ones will go to iron. Simple as
Will you reach challenger with it tho?
@@nightcall6386 Most people lack basic logic. Not an exaggeration.
4:08 I disagree with this take, that since it works to Master/Grandmaster then it should be fine, the problem is that while Im not an Agurin fan, tbh, dont even know the guy. But I do know he's thinking of it as a Challenger, a consistent Top 10, rank 1 Challenger for multiple seasons playing this game. The single fact that the dude has to lessen or follow a Master/GM is so crazy to me. Baus is understandable and thats because he has actually played, reached, and still plays in Challenger alongside Challenger players.
I hear so so so many people complain that Master/Grandmaster is like the shittiest rank which is actually true and so far from Challenger, hence the Low Masta meme, but the time it actually does feel like its Low Masta against Challengers, we back track on it and say, "Since it works and has made him reach top 500, then it should be fine" I dont know who the other 4 on his team are, but I would think, ykno, those 4 players are playing around top 100, top 200, or whatever Challenger cap is. Bad take from Caedrel imo. ❤❤❤
btw ady LCKCL korean toplaner hit rank 1 korea with janna/taric/thresh top, if you don't want to play with these kind of different playstyle just get better to avoid queuing in his elo or dodge the game, it is that simple
@@davidsamy brother no shot while i dont agree with ady's playstyle i can see why he does that but no shot youre saying bardinette and ady are at the same level ady lanes when he needs to if you watch some of his games bardinette just goes weeeeee i roam?!!?!?!?!?!?
@@Darkyryus_ they are not the same level for sure, but again if he got 53% winrate on EUW masters and peaked GM with dogshit strategy then the whole elo is dogshit as nemesis said, so people need to stop hating on bardinette and if they don't want to play with him either dodge his games or get better and hit challenger to not be in his lobbies anymore
I hardly doubt cadreal would see this the same way if it he actually had to play with him
The issue was the winning condition of the game. Zyra and kaisa need to be fed. Bard and pyke got all the kills. Trynd and renek had perma prio invade.
Zyra cant play if shes continuously denied because your solo laners are useless.
Malph and bard were perma griefing
This is basically the Korean Ady version in Europe. Yes, he may be good, and he may have a way of winning the game with this Strat, but the fact that this is a solo queue is hard for both sides. Because I'll also be tilted if I have a top bard in my game .
what about baus? cause thats the same argument
@millionelectricvolts6117 I mean for me personally the Baus is also the same. He has his way of winning (Strat). But it is only/mostly meant for solo queue + people being tilted makes sense. But for sure being AFK like what caedrel said is another problem.
@@millionelectricvolts6117 not really cos this strat is not good enough to carry him out of Master. Baus strat is proven workable on different champions and you can reach challengers with them. It's not a bad strat like this one.
You cant even compare it with Ady tbh not even close to level no way he roams but he remains extremely impactful throughtout the game.
Issue with this is that it works 50% of the time, but the other 50% he loses the game solo.
there are no laws or restrictions on how to play the game, you create your own playstyle
gumayusi: I have to keep playing no matter what. That's what I learned.
14:40 I played ww mid a couple times when I was playing yone in low elo for fun and yone would get picked away, the champ is pretty much a punching bag for the first bit in lane cant really trade because the distance between towers is 5 feet but it kinda goes hard in certain scenarios you can run back to lane with 500 ms from somebody top or mid triggering your passive and roams on overextended side lanes are extremely EXTREMELY easy
i can see it. riot making unleashed version for every summonerspell
anyone remember banner of command meta? Lmao what a good time
Bring back names in champ select! We deserve the right to know if we want to play a whole game out with our team.
lol in this clip bard literaly solo killed brand jungle at lvl 2. Lets not consider that outcome as benefit of his playstyle.
Another react to that round but no coverage of the champion selection again ffs, which is the key point imo. like putting that bard otp on the side for a moment i just can't see any justification for that zyra jungle pick here which puts it onto the SAME level as the bard top pick. Unless you have atleast one lane that's dominant early on you should not pick zyra jungle because nobody can and will help you when the invade stuff happens. also on the head-to-head comparison brand is just infinetly better then zyra until maybe very very late stages of the game (plants hate fire). IMHO he's as much at fault as everyone else involved in this lost game.
Theres also an River Ivern OTP and nobody bat an eye
can't wait for caedrel to play with baus for a competitive season and his hypocrisy will show up.
Wasn't he complaining before that his toplaner in XL (Kryze) wanted to play Kayle and other selfish toplaners on stage all the time? Why isn't that a strat? Why weren't they adjusting to him? Just because it was proplay?
Also there was once a game where my teammates went for 3 trollpicks. I got tilted and went for a ghost cleanse bard jg to complete the troll team. Even tho we were all hating each other in draft, noone was talking in game we all just played. And we won and I was useful. Hit a lot of bard ults, roamed, I even stole a drake from an incompetent opponent jg. Does that make this strategy viable? Ofc not. I even put down my Senna supp even tho i loved playing her and i was good at her because I felt like my adc's are hating it (with reason) and I wanted to fulfill the expectations and play "valid supports".
It’s one thing to “find your way to play and climb by winning games”, but the counter argument can also be made for all the matches he has ruined for his “style of gameplay” where he made his team lose. The fact that the game is EXPLAINED by RIOT as one way and players are forced to CHANGE at a split notice, not preplanned ahead of time in a ranked game is mental.
Nah I am on Agurin’s side on this. You might not like that he went AFK but when one person is essentially ruining the experience for your team and making it so other people don’t get to enjoy the game because it’s a “off meta strategy” that’s such a dumb argument. In the Buas’ case he would go back and show in post games that he WAS generating a gold lead for himself despite “inting” because there was definitive logic and evidence to support that his strategy worked. This guy is just sacking his lane to soak up xp from another lane and try to generate a lead there but it’s one shared between 3 people but two of them are essentially supports. Meanwhile the enemy top just plays farming simulator, cuts off the top side jungle for your team and keeps every grub and herald for his team. It is essentially trolling with extra steps and people shouldn’t be forced to play with people like that, it’s supposed to be a competitive matchmaking game at high elo not “I hope I don’t get stuck with some one trick troll who’s going to ruin the game for us because they THINK they’re smart.”
So if it doesnt work, why did it work and he climbed with it? Is enemy top stupid?
@@ono1113 more than likely it’s a result of his MMR being floored and him not actually playing at a “high elo level” because while we don’t know the full details of MMR we can pretty confidently say that it works similarly to the elo system of chess. You are given elo based on the placement of other people, because when magifelix made rank 1 and stockpiled accounts at the top of challenger in EU, high elo players were getting drastically lower elo games as a result. So while his strategy worked in lower elo levels, it likely also screwed his MMR ranking so while climbing he wasn’t actually playing against good players. Like what nemesis said, once you play actual good players the strategy just falls flat on its face because it’s not actually a good strategy.
@@AtlasAdvice254 ah so the classic bs "its the elo" but somehow you cant climb the elo anyway lmao
IF agurin gets banned, every player that goes afk constantly in a 2:10 game ratio needs to get banned too, but everyone knows that is not going to happen
Years ago there wasnt even a support character or a jungler. There wasnt even a dragon. The support funneling adc was a strategy that changed the game (for the worse) back when there was super over powered engage supports (alistar leona) and they funneled hyper over powered adcs and won some tournaments and all of the sudden riot fucked the whole game up and decided like yeah we're going to make this the standard for the game.
There’s no problem if he has a good winrate. The league players are just children that can’t adapt to a GAME. Just play to win that’s all that matters
Bothers me how many people are hating on different strategies. IF IT DOESNT WORK YOU WOULDNT BE IN THAT ELO!!!! Enough said
I think a big part of it is also just not wanting to adjust. agurin also sees peole invading still goes there. doesnt adjust his playstyle and expects them to play his game. He expects the others to adjust to him and doesn't want to adjust to their playstyle.
If there is a pick that loses top I get it sucks but they win some games if you stop trying you will never win yk. Just play it out, he knows what he should be doing and doesnt do it
Only reasonable comment here.
"I've been playing the same game for years, the same way in a general sense, how dare you change my game?"
I think Agurin is an adc main in heart, they have this mentality. Crying about a couple mages going into their role, meanwhile adc role has half as many played champions than literally any other role.
True that agurin didn't adjust, He shouldn't afk and should just play it out, but the Bard is just as guilty of refusing to adjust as he is. You can't expect your whole team to change and adjust around you while changing nothing for them. He plays this strat every game that forces his teammates to deal with it or lose. With both players dead set in their ways and only playing the way they want to was pretty much a guaranteed loss.
@@chrismancini9539 Its a loss if they aren't on their OTP, thats why they are called a OTP.
Bardinette forces this playstyle every single game no matter the circumstance if bard is banned he picks some other shtlike malphite and does the same, no matter his own team comp no matter enemy team comp no matter the general circumstances of the game, so why TF would you ever speak about the jgl not adjusting
He is innovating something? The game is dynamic? This is not low elo. These are people hard grinding high elo. And saying that it's ok to play in a way that screws 4 members of your team is mindblowing .Worse take I've ever heard. Everything in the game is built to push you into play it in a certain way. that's why you have high elo meta champs, and low elo meta champs.
And you can't even compare this to Baus, he plays the TOP lane in a certain way. Been Absent in your lane is not playing your lane, is playing however you want expecting everyone to play around you.
but even baus said that roaming toplaner like janna and bard are shit against toplaners that can perma sidelane and 1 v9
People complain about league being stale, but when people try to innovate, they get flamed and mass reported. He's in the same ELO as you, so if you think him and his strat suck, that says a lot about you as well then since hes the same ELO.
People only want innovation in theory, but in practice will hate it since this is what it looks like. You dont find new or strong strats/picks without trying it somewhere.
EDIT: The pick Agurin is playing in this clip (Zyra jungle) was something that would have gotten you flamed for last month, but now hes playing it because its OP when nothing changed from then to now. Someone innovated and tried Zyra jungle and found it was OP and now it spread. The entire way people expect league to be played now is due to people innovated and deviating from the "standard" way of playing (duo bot and junglers was an innovation from players and not something riot forced)
he plays 300 games 47% wr he is COINFLIPPING
coinflipping isnt a innovative way you could say the same by picking belveth EVERYONE knows youre invading raptors is that innovative? no just roaming all way is not innovative youre comparing a champ thats the best at full clearing that has a sense and arguments versus weee i go roam wtf you talking?
watfaak are u saying ? Are u human ? Brain dead animal again
@@Darkyryus_thx for speaking true to this brain dead
There is a line between innovative and int. That bard guy would probably be challenger if he played normally, he is just good enough to be 500LP on anything. Zyra got some buffs that made her able to clear, so people tried it and it worked. Roaming top came from a poor state of toplane. Funneling was invented by boosters to make a super champion, that happened to become op. Lane swaps came from trying to find ways to dodge matchups. Innovation has rationale behind it. This guy played 300+ games, it's not like he is unaware that the strategy is bad, he just has fun with it.
If Bard can make it to and stay in Masters, as Caedral said, there is something valid about that play-style. It is in the top top top percent of the entire player-base. And Nemesis saying “it only works to a certain LP point.” Is that not what that elo is? If you don’t wanna play with it, just be better than that LP level. “Master 500 LP is silver quality.” Just copium, most of the player base can only DREEEAAAMM of reaching that high of a level.
having different playstyle and knowing how to win with it is as deserving that elo as some random standard meta player of same elo. It only shows that they cover their weakness in some way superior to standard player.
"He has a decent winrate in SoloQ" has to be the dumbest argument ever. All 9 other players suffer, in that sense, should toxic people with positive W/R not be banned? They make the game miserable but still have decent W/R in SoloQ?
4:00 bard fks the sup item stuff gives grubs and top jng
The "int sion" or most he plays gets push gets plates deny enemy the plates gets jng or sup pressure and accelerate gold
This bard makes the game 4v6 has he lowers the team gold and gives a insane gold lead to enemy
Janna made double sup item nerfed and was able to stop plates (or lower it) now we dont see it has double sup item needs a very very low gold sup (half item at 20+ min in)
17:03 flash for flash zyra and bard dies (or bard flashes too and leaves zyra to die with no chance for 1 for 1)
It is a DIFFERENCE BETWEEN META LIKE JANNA TOP WITH SMITE OR EZREAL SMITE MID and a person WHO plays Bard top like nearly no one else. Is he serious about this argument? Comparing META to something like what Bardinette does?
Nah, for once I really do not agree with Caedrel’s take. Yeah it worked in Master, but once you hit higher elo with real players, professional, meta-induced, high mechanical play, it just doesn’t work. You’re refusing to abide by the fundamental aspect of current league of legends by not laning and giving up a large influx of gold and pushing it onto your teammates. By the specific game state of that game, every play Bardinette roamed and accessed KP, the gold didn’t matter because it went to champions who are useless and can not potentially raise the game to a win.
Let me be serious here, the Bardinette style gameplay is 100% tone deaf, bar none. Again, there is merit to liberty and diversity to how you want to play the game, but isolating those small instances in contrast to high Grandmaster/C1 mmr is nothing of the same logistical standard.
Agurin imo is justified.
Ye, you are absolutely right! Riot should add that to their rulebook: You can int and go afk when someone does something you don't like...
@@Pharaphel It’s like you didn’t read anything I said and didn’t actually watch the game!
@@PharaphelProbably should.of just dodged
@@Skaterptater teams got same mmr, dude picks zyra, so basically ints, then ints, complains, complains, ints, goes afk... is there something I missed? I'm not challenger like you, so there might be something I missed tho.
@@Pharaphel sorry i don’t talk to retards that don’t know what they are talking about ! zyra is meta btw !
So, if i play Zyra and I have to farm hard. Am I forcing my team to play a certain style and can therefore be banned.
the bard top is to distract you from how ass picking zyra jungle into a brand is
that bard might play the game differently and it might work in some games. but his strat is to surrender top and play as second support for ur mid or jungle and give them a huge lead in exchange for u beein giga weak in comparism.
the point agurin has here is, if he fails at this crucial point, this game ist auto lost.
agurin even said it issnt about the bard top it is about them straight inting the same time. u cant play off meta strats who deserve a certain win condition and fail that hard to get that conmdition and expect ur mates to play out a 100% lost game.
this is a bad take from caedrel. what this guy is doing isn't just an 'off meta' strat. he's basically trading the POSSIBILITY of helping other lanes for the INEVITABILITY that the enemy top laner is going to be huge. top will have no prio, so top side jungle is just perma-off limits. you lose grubs. you lose herald. by the time baron is even in play, either the game is totally over or you have zero control of baron.
this is the equivalent of going to play pickup basketball, and once you're in game you go 'oh btw team i only shoot half court shots and if you don't pass me the ball to do so, i won't play defense so you're effectively down a man.' the fact that ANYONE defends this behavior is digusting.
"this is the equivalent of going to play pickup basketball, and once you're in game you go 'oh btw team i only shoot half court shots and if you don't pass me the ball to do so, i won't play defense so you're effectively down a man.'"
It's not an equivalent by any means. In basketball, this strategy wouldn't get you into any good team. You legit wouldn't even be playing. Bardinette tho, is playing at a really high level, legit 0.1% of playerbase, so his strategy works, even if you dislike it.
I really find it disgusting how many people dislike unconvential playstyles, but to each their own I guess.
@@verloreneseele8898 he's playing in pub matches. he is not playing pro. that is the difference. he is a 1 trick that utilizes a troll strategy that ruins games and he only wins because his champ is useful in spite of completely ceding top lane. the analogy is totally accurate. it's not my fault you're not smart enough to logically connect the two.
ok guys so look bardenette used to post a doc in the champ select before in the document it legit said "the enemy will get to inhib pre 15 but its ok" how is that ok so you say a bard with 0 cs level what 6 can compare to a renekton with full cs 3 towers all platings level 16 no thats not how league works and he does force people to play his strat because he also had in the doc that if you ban his bard he will lock in a champ he has 22% winrate on so that is threatening people to play his way of league
league is a team based game not a solo player based game him running it down will mean the whole team will break apart. while i might agree if he gets the adc fed enough they can beat the toplaner but then how often can you make the adc as fed as a free farming toplaner with all platings and 3 towers maybe once every what 20-30 games and then you need to remember he doesn't only let the enemy top get to free farm he also steals alot of exp from the mid and bot and makes it so the jungler has no pressure to take his top side if the jungler goes to his topside jungle he will get collapsed on if the players know what they are doing
Losing an inhib before 20 is actually good. He doesnt force his team to play around him, he is the one to play around his botlane and jungler so they can beat the fed toplaner later on. The thing is that he puts all his responsability of being a toplaner on his jungler and adc. + his strat is working cuz he is master so that aint inting
@@erwangoasdoue1721 you have a tumor if you think that losing a inhib at 20 min is good you also have a extra tumor for thinking his strategy is a decent one
Nemesis saying bard’s teammates did not consent to play the game this way so it’s wrong of him when he’s been friends with baus and defending him and his playstyle for years is kinda hypocritical tbh
@@person-pl5gt but they are just two completely different playstyles with one clearly being infinitely better and more successful. watch the whole nemesis video for more context
you can't ban people for actively playing though, he wins enough with it that its like objectively not trolling
@@elleeVee except in this case the player should be banned because he is extremely toxic and runs it down every game he doesn’t get bard
Baus strat is the real deal. This is not. One stuck in master another hit challenger multiple times using his strat on multiple different champions.
@@RichartCexcept that baus is playing his style of game and forcing other 9 to play his style which is what the point was
"Forcing playstyle" is such a bad argument. Do I consent to my laners having a bad game and going 0/10? Do I consent to my jungler perma full clearing? The reason why people are so addicted to this game is because every game is different, you have to adapt to each game. Every game you are "forced" to play a certain way because of factors that are outside of your control.
The fact that someone can even do a strategy like this and succeed is a testament to the creativity that is possible within League of Legends.
Pedro is actually the CEO of neutrality xdd
Don't know about other takes, about this one? He is not, he says he does not agree with majority, how is that neutral?
Also, it's not black and white argument, if you have an opinion about a league argument it can be different by many layers
Fun part is when he is flaming someone's playstyle because he got caught and didnt wanna give up raptors
"nebrac is an NA teemo sup player" i dont know this sounds like introducing a guy who eats cats
As long as your team is actually trying to win, which the Bard is, then fucking play the game out and don't be a baby. Sure, it's annoying to play with, but so are loads of normal strategies. It doesn't matter if something is "good" or "bad" they are in your elo for a reason so stop crying and play the game. If the strat is bad then they'll just rank below you so no worries.
Man i wish you had all 3 lanes lose hard by the time its 5 mins. You lost half of your jungle and the top lane is so far behind it would take you at least 3 people to stop 1.
There was no point in playing that particular game. None. They werent gonna win even if Faker himself subbed in. Dont be a baby, accept the loss and move on. There was zero reason to spend anymore time on that game.
@@toniyakovlev4403 you have tier 1 pro teams that make minimal mistakes throw 10k + infernal soul leads pretty often. There is 100% a chance they can win that game if agurin isnt a crybaby and afks
6:30 Bad take. Not every top laner is taking bard top and roaming. Janna smite top was the most effective way to lane top, this is not.
8:36 baus making raid boss everygame is already something very shitty to have （he‘s doing better since he ditched sion） having these kinda bard and teemo makes the game a suffer simulator, can’t really agree with this take
okay but if you want to play the game I play for fun in a way that makes it borderline unplayablle for me, then I think its objcetively reasonable for me to make the decision to either hop off or in most of the times limit test. I don't think doing anything out of malice to make the bard's day worse is good but at the same time when the game is in a state where I am both unfamiliar and disatvantaged I think its fairly reasonable for me to make durastic plays and even in the case I go 0/20 I shouldn't be held liable since I was simply doing what i understand to be the most reasonable play in the situation
Im Baus no.1 hater but im gonna say Baus is not like Bardinette at all. Baus even when he goes full inting strat still work with normal league formula. Yes his team now gonna deal with fed top laner and potentially need to play 4 vs 5 but they are still playing normal league. What Bardinette do is forcing the entire team to play his version of league instead cos there is no top laner but support roamer it basically like playing with lane swap but only the top laner does it.
Edit: idk why Caedrel love bad strat so much and doesnt call it for what it is.
Agreege
Nah the emotional person here is Caedrel. The game was unplayable and it didn‘t matter wether he pretended to not be afk by playing or to go afk and do something else. Nemesis was 100% right.
The drama is also especially insane considering this is the first time he goes afk and only after trying for several minutes, meanwhile many streamer like Tyler1 frequently go afk and even logout mid game to login with a new account to continue playing.
If it works, it works, and he wouldn't be masters if it didn't work. Literally climbs higher roaming bard top than 99% of the commenters complaining about it do on their main role and champ
I agree with Caedral, that you can see the argument but its very hard to gauge and innovate. The janna top, that funnel strat are examples.
Bard top, malph mid, zyra jungle, and the game wasnt dodged?
Got master by playing many games just 47%wr can be possible
12:10 we need a 4th person reacting to this to keep the chain going 😂😂