Like your work. Have been working on guitars since a kid in 1969. My way of shaping a neck is using cabinet scrapers and counting the number of strkes, literally, side by side. I also shape a nek flat in the middle if the guitar player / customer has been classically trained. Also , I ask to see their hands and size of hand , ask them in a DETAILED way what they prefer. To my surprise many don't like the U shape of the Telecaster 52 re-issue- which is 1" throughout.. So I place a great deal of importance on their information to me. I think it's important to a paying customer to talk in detail about what THEY want. Also, as I am Downunder, what parts are best yet not pricey. Hope this helps.
In scale model making I use fresh solder wire to mould around a piece and transfer to paper (or styrene sheet) to make templates for carbon fibre print decals.
How about a pencil with a right angle.....Put your paper at 90 degrees above the neck. Put your masking tape on the neck. Place your 90 degree (hasn't been invented yet, but....) Trace the outline of the neck with the non lead end of the pencil and allow the lead end to draw the draw the traced shape onto your paper.....You could get a hundred profiles in minutes....
Before it gets edited, the original title of this video was "Name of Guitar/project - Episode number and content - Series Name" so all of the other comments make more sense. Loving it! Ben: "I should own stock in masking tape!" Also Ben: Spends several minutes making a masking tape dinosaur. Brilliant!
Ben, I have that same metal profile copier. I can get an accurate profile with it by taking a width of pins wider than the neck, pushing them up higher than the neck first, then setting it over the neck, and pushing the pins down with my finger just until they touch the neck. This stops the issue of the pins splaying out at the edges when you press the whole straight row of the pins down over the neck. Give it a try sometime, it works quite well!
Couldn't you just take a strip of lead, bend it round the neck, then draw on paper/card? Experiment with lead thickness so it's thick enough to hold shape but still easily bent, but not thin enough that it loses shape if brushed or casually breathed upon by an asthmatic dwarf (ie stronger than a Gibson headstock)
When I've done this kinda thing in the past I've used cling film, cardboard and rapid set epoxy. Rough cut the cardboard and use it as a base for the epoxy. After an hour you have a rock hard EXACT mould/template - dead hard, rigid and easy to work with.
A flexible curve ruler from a stationary supplier would also do the trick. Shape round the neck, lift off and draw - just make sure it’s hasn’t sprung back as you lift it off.
Base? Would have been easier to use a wider base(!) neck template (made out of wood or acrylic) for the clay, kinda like a dental mould. Use sculpy and bake it then you have a hard version identical to the neck shape
I know this is an older video, but I’m hoping you’re still seeing these comments. Considering the scope of your shop now (yes, I’ve been watching that long), I wonder if it would help you to build a neck “copying” jig. I likely can’t post links in comments, so do a RUclips search for Rob Scallon Building a Classical Guitar From Scratch, and (if you’re in a rush) skip to 39:30. They have a fantastic jig setup to copy any neck. I’m guessing it would really help with this kind of thing.
In the car audio world they have things for tracing out curves. It's some sort of rubber with a flat side and wire in it. Bend it to the shape, remove and trace, done.
Cut out a slightly oversized rough neck shape out of some wood, line the shape with something like those 2k-putty sticks, the stuff where you have to mix 2 pieces of a Plasticine-like substance by hand until it's uniform, and press it on the neck (masking tape to protect the neck) Once the putty has hardened, take it off, refine it, and you'll have a durable neck jig for future builds. Basically the Plasticine Idea, but with stuff that hardens within a few minutes.
This is a suggestion and I haven't tried yet. You could take a large number of photo's and then use a photogrammetry program like Meshroon (others are available for free). This will give you a 3D model which you could produce as many templates as necessary.
Use a strand of 3d printing filament, after protecting the neck the same way but using Kapton tape, heat up the plastic with a heat gun then when it cools off, just a thought 😊
It seems to me you could have used your metal gauge and gotten a non-distorted contour by starting with the metal tines fully in and gently pushing them in from above to meet the neck. But that would have been a much shorter video. 😉 WWBD?
So, what is it now...8 months since you said you would finish the handtool only build, before working on any other guitar...? As much as I find it interesting to see you build a guitar out of wood that is essentially not suited for a guitar, I would really like to see that one finished soon.
It has always been about the chase, & not the capture. In the future may Ben you and your great crew can do a video covering the several different way's one can replicate a existing neck shape without the use of a CNC machine. Much aloha to all at CG...🤙🏼
make a resin/epoxy mold of the whole neck. once cured cut it into cross sections of exactly where you want to know the shape. Over engineering solutions since 27/4/23
When I saw the plasticine, It made me think you were going to make a full cast of the neck and then cut it into sandwich bread slices...... which come to think of it, might be the best way to make the guides. Wrap the neck in plastic wrap, cover in plaster or molding putty and once dry, slice it at various fret marker points. Voila!! ☮❤🎶
I had an “augmented D” profile on a strat but hated it and got rid of it. Martin does it on some guitars had a D15M that was Asymmetrical Oval, best neck I ever had very comfortable, I like soft V on my Fenders, and Im watching you, to learn how to carve a standard C into a V.
The expression bob's your uncle is commonly believed to be a reference to the appointment of Arthur Balfour to the position of Chief Secretary for Ireland in 1887 by his uncle Prime Minister Robert Gascoyne-Cecil.
Ben, I don't know if you mentioned it.. But you made a minitorial about using thermomorph to copy a neck shape, 6 years ago. And you demonstrated the plastic shape copying tool as well there.. I was just recommended this video by the YT algorithm. ruclips.net/video/evtLQlM6N5g/видео.html
Would making plaster casts be a viable option....? OK, you'd need to protect the original from damage (e.g cling film or similar) and make up some dams, but you could get pretty close and have something that can be fettled to perfection and use repeatably as a "master" to then make up the profile templates. I've seen such a technique used by plastic kit scale modellers to "take" the internal shape of an aircraft fuselage or boat hull in order to make templates for bulkheads. Or how about a "half a pencil" used to trace an outline onto a profile "near enough" (say 2-3mm too big) that can them be downscaled. Wonder what might have inspired that idea!
The masking tape trick worked perfect for me to copy a gibson neck ... You have to do a few tries until you get it perfect but it works. I was thinking to do this again and make one out of black cardboard and when its perfect i will scan it with white paper underneath and then i can convert the image to an svg and ultimately 3d print the shape so that i have a repeatable one 😊
You'll have no problem getting the job you're applying for because your uncle Bob works there, perhaps is even in charge of the hiring. More generally it means you're in, no problem.
Just a thought, but instead of drawing around the shape, use spray paint. You’d be left with the exact profile and have no danger of deforming the line with pressure from the pencil?
The easiest and most accurate way to "mould" the neck would be a few strips of electrical tape on the neck, then build up a profile on the tape using air-dry clay. Will be hard, durable and exactly accurate. Plus reusable. Can even shape a handle on it if you were so inclined
it's interesting that no one has come up with a neck duplicating machine like old key cutting machines. Could that be built reasonably cost effectively?
Put electrical tape on the neck. Mix some auto body repair putty (filler). Oil the tape for easy removal. Put the putty over the tape. Once hardened, remove it. Flaten the sides of the shapes on a flat sender. If you deem the things hard enough use directly as gauges, so you only transfer to paper in order to figure out the angles for the faceting. You can build the gauges up for easy holding when measuring. You can also stick electrical tape on the arc of your newly made gauges so you null any difference from applying the electrical tape to protect the neck.
I am not sure if this would work but what about putting cling wrap around the neck and mixing some thick plaster, putting the plaster around the wrap and waiting for it to dry, then remove it. it should in theory leave the profile of the neck perfect in the plaster.
I know nothing about building guitars, but I would try to place some roughly-shaped pieces of cardboard or foam core on top of the tape protecting the guitar neck, tape them in place, and use some plaster of paris or other casting material, to generate negative forms.
Hi Ben could this idea work to copy a neck profile? You soak in super glue a piece of string/rope (gotta experiment with thickness) and place it around the neck on top of a piece of plastic bag instead of the masking tape (has to be something that protects the neck but doesnt stick or glue to the neck), let the super glue harden and gently pull it and cut off the excess of the plastic bag around the string/rope, technically you would have a string/rope shaped like the neck?
Hi, I would have done it differently, I protected the arm with film and made a mold out of a piece of clay, let it dry and then put the shape on paper. the piece of clay was saved for future work. Good work.
I'd go about it with some sort of putty or plaster probably, letting that harden and cure and then taking a propoer slice out of it. In the time it takes for that to cure, I can easily do other things, like... procrastinate ;)
I would use hot glue and a piece of card stock. Do the same tape to protect the neck then cat some card stock very close to the shape and then lay some hot glue onto the tape and push the card stock into it. Could even get away with using one of those plastic gauges with the hot glue. Simple and cheap and pretty quick and even just use it as the finishing gauge and not have to cut out another.
Use the profile tool, but rather than pressing a bunch of 'needles' into the neck, offer the tool up to the neck, and push each 'needle' one at a time until it meets the wood. Repeat. Done.
A router jig that follows the profile of the original neck and routes it onto the new neck. There are jigs out there to do that for sure and they are accurate and repeatable.
A pre cut piece of cardstock in roughly the shape then just trace the neck using the pencil and washer trick.The just cut the traced line with a scalpel.
What about tapping the neck as you did then use a strip of lining paper soaked in wallpaper paste and laying over the tape then another strip on top of that then leave to dry , obviously if you have time and not in a rush
For anyone looking to replicate this, I highly recommend a video by Randy's Guitars & Broncos, who has an awesome neck carving jig setup for copying bolt-on neck profiles
Like your work. Have been working on guitars since a kid in 1969. My way of shaping a neck is using cabinet scrapers and counting the number of strkes, literally, side by side. I also shape a nek flat in the middle if the guitar player / customer has been classically trained. Also , I ask to see their hands and size of hand , ask them in a DETAILED way what they prefer. To my surprise many don't like the U shape of the Telecaster 52 re-issue- which is 1" throughout.. So I place a great deal of importance on their information to me. I think it's important to a paying customer to talk in detail about what THEY want. Also, as I am Downunder, what parts are best yet not pricey. Hope this helps.
In scale model making I use fresh solder wire to mould around a piece and transfer to paper (or styrene sheet) to make templates for carbon fibre print decals.
I have done this exact thing but i put cling wrap on the neck and used epoxy putty
Pattern router. Such as is used for tool/axe handles
You could use a 3D scanner (and even take that model to NC the neck... )
How about a pencil with a right angle.....Put your paper at 90 degrees above the neck. Put your masking tape on the neck. Place your 90 degree (hasn't been invented yet, but....) Trace the outline of the neck with the non lead end of the pencil and allow the lead end to draw the draw the traced shape onto your paper.....You could get a hundred profiles in minutes....
Before it gets edited, the original title of this video was "Name of Guitar/project - Episode number and content - Series Name" so all of the other comments make more sense. Loving it! Ben: "I should own stock in masking tape!" Also Ben: Spends several minutes making a masking tape dinosaur. Brilliant!
I had forgotten about that. I was wondering what that was about. Thanks for the reminder!
Ben, I have that same metal profile copier. I can get an accurate profile with it by taking a width of pins wider than the neck, pushing them up higher than the neck first, then setting it over the neck, and pushing the pins down with my finger just until they touch the neck. This stops the issue of the pins splaying out at the edges when you press the whole straight row of the pins down over the neck. Give it a try sometime, it works quite well!
Couldn't you just take a strip of lead, bend it round the neck, then draw on paper/card?
Experiment with lead thickness so it's thick enough to hold shape but still easily bent, but not thin enough that it loses shape if brushed or casually breathed upon by an asthmatic dwarf (ie stronger than a Gibson headstock)
How about cling film and expanding foam once it’s sets you could easily cut it down to a cross section, and it sets pretty firm too
I didnt expect to find such wisdom only 4 comments in hahahaha
When I've done this kinda thing in the past I've used cling film, cardboard and rapid set epoxy. Rough cut the cardboard and use it as a base for the epoxy. After an hour you have a rock hard EXACT mould/template - dead hard, rigid and easy to work with.
Clingfilm and phymo moulding clay or mouldable plastic which come as pellets that that you have to heat in water. Both work great.
i use a short length of solder to replicate the shape. glue to a piece of paper, cut with a scalpel. Perfect every time.
Please don’t change the title, it’s amazing
A flexible curve ruler from a stationary supplier would also do the trick. Shape round the neck, lift off and draw - just make sure it’s hasn’t sprung back as you lift it off.
I had the same idea and looked up curve ruler. There are also professional bendable rulers that can be used directly as a routing template!
Possibly even modeling clay or plumbers putty
Self identifier, opinion about, compliment.
Would a flexible french curve work? ruclips.net/video/MR7XQMLEnVc/видео.html
That was my immediate thought. Used to use them for replicating graph curves onto grid paper.
Base?
Would have been easier to use a wider base(!) neck template (made out of wood or acrylic) for the clay, kinda like a dental mould. Use sculpy and bake it then you have a hard version identical to the neck shape
I know this is an older video, but I’m hoping you’re still seeing these comments. Considering the scope of your shop now (yes, I’ve been watching that long), I wonder if it would help you to build a neck “copying” jig. I likely can’t post links in comments, so do a RUclips search for Rob Scallon Building a Classical Guitar From Scratch, and (if you’re in a rush) skip to 39:30. They have a fantastic jig setup to copy any neck. I’m guessing it would really help with this kind of thing.
Thanks for sharing that video; it was a really cool way to go about it!
That was the longest advertisement for a contour gauge that I've ever sat through!
Generic comment - general praise for Crimson - followed by a silly question
In the car audio world they have things for tracing out curves. It's some sort of rubber with a flat side and wire in it. Bend it to the shape, remove and trace, done.
You could have use milliput to get the shape, takes a while to set up hard but you would be left with a lump of epoxy which could be used again
Came here to suggest miliput/green stuff
Ben, wrap the area you want to copy with thin plastic food wrap and use the two part plumber's epoxy putty to model the shape.
How about using a 1:1 tracing pantograph? But with an offset stylus so it can follow the neck surface instead of a line on a drawing?
for other shapes iv used in the past cling film and car body filler sets hard in minuets
Take a 1/4 inch aluminum wire bend it to shape your done
Cut out a slightly oversized rough neck shape out of some wood, line the shape with something like those 2k-putty sticks, the stuff where you have to mix 2 pieces of a Plasticine-like substance by hand until it's uniform, and press it on the neck (masking tape to protect the neck) Once the putty has hardened, take it off, refine it, and you'll have a durable neck jig for future builds.
Basically the Plasticine Idea, but with stuff that hardens within a few minutes.
Loving the video title
Milliput epoxy putty and a wooden template, using the first method would possibly result in a permanent set of guides.
I would use some flexible metal band or wire to bend around the neck.
This is a suggestion and I haven't tried yet. You could take a large number of photo's and then use a photogrammetry program like Meshroon (others are available for free). This will give you a 3D model which you could produce as many templates as necessary.
And you could program a CNC to carve it for you... multiple times
Also, you can get 3D scanner apps for your phone.
Whatever happened to the hand tool build?
Someone uploaded with temp name, lolz.
My favourite method is to get someone else to do it!
Please rename the guitar to "the place holder" 🤣
Use a strand of 3d printing filament, after protecting the neck the same way but using Kapton tape, heat up the plastic with a heat gun then when it cools off, just a thought 😊
That title is the opposite of click bait!
It seems to me you could have used your metal gauge and gotten a non-distorted contour by starting with the metal tines fully in and gently pushing them in from above to meet the neck. But that would have been a much shorter video. 😉 WWBD?
I've done it that way once or twice. Copied it onto a piece of wood, and used small files until it fit the original neck perfectly.
Did you seriously just wear gloves to play with plasticine? You have stolen my childhood! How dare you!!!!!!!!!!!!😂😂😂
So, what is it now...8 months since you said you would finish the handtool only build, before working on any other guitar...? As much as I find it interesting to see you build a guitar out of wood that is essentially not suited for a guitar, I would really like to see that one finished soon.
It has always been about the chase, & not the capture. In the future may Ben you and your great crew can do a video covering the several different way's one can replicate a existing neck shape without the use of a CNC machine. Much aloha to all at CG...🤙🏼
make a resin/epoxy mold of the whole neck. once cured cut it into cross sections of exactly where you want to know the shape. Over engineering solutions since 27/4/23
When I saw the plasticine, It made me think you were going to make a full cast of the neck and then cut it into sandwich bread slices...... which come to think of it, might be the best way to make the guides. Wrap the neck in plastic wrap, cover in plaster or molding putty and once dry, slice it at various fret marker points. Voila!! ☮❤🎶
You are both the Sherlock Holmes and the Dr Frankenstein of the guitar building world❤❤
I do wonder if the client watches these videos... and if they wonder when/if they'll get the completed instrument.
Your ADHD meds should come with FREE masking tape !! LOL
I have an MTD bass with an asymmetrical neck and absolutely love it! Asymmetrical necks are much more comfortable.
A little bit of self hardening clay on your masking tape would gives you the perfect shape. However IT would be longer than your méthode.
I had an “augmented D” profile on a strat but hated it and got rid of it. Martin does it on some guitars had a D15M that was Asymmetrical Oval, best neck I ever had very comfortable, I like soft V on my Fenders, and Im watching you, to learn how to carve a standard C into a V.
The expression bob's your uncle is commonly believed to be a reference to the appointment of Arthur Balfour to the position of Chief Secretary for Ireland in 1887 by his uncle Prime Minister Robert Gascoyne-Cecil.
Ben, I don't know if you mentioned it.. But you made a minitorial about using thermomorph to copy a neck shape, 6 years ago. And you demonstrated the plastic shape copying tool as well there.. I was just recommended this video by the YT algorithm. ruclips.net/video/evtLQlM6N5g/видео.html
Easiest and probably most expensive way would be to use a CMM (Coordinate Measuring Machine).
You know how locksmiths replicate keys? I'm sure I've seen a router work like that... if not, it should be a thing.
Would making plaster casts be a viable option....?
OK, you'd need to protect the original from damage (e.g cling film or similar) and make up some dams, but you could get pretty close and have something that can be fettled to perfection and use repeatably as a "master" to then make up the profile templates.
I've seen such a technique used by plastic kit scale modellers to "take" the internal shape of an aircraft fuselage or boat hull in order to make templates for bulkheads.
Or how about a "half a pencil" used to trace an outline onto a profile "near enough" (say 2-3mm too big) that can them be downscaled. Wonder what might have inspired that idea!
I use a flexible ruler to create curves. It's basically a bendy metal rod in a rubber housing that holds it's shape when flexed. That might work?
I’m confused Ben, why was it necessary to use gloves while using children’s modelling clay? Were you using the poisonous adult version? 😂
The masking tape trick worked perfect for me to copy a gibson neck ... You have to do a few tries until you get it perfect but it works.
I was thinking to do this again and make one out of black cardboard and when its perfect i will scan it with white paper underneath and then i can convert the image to an svg and ultimately 3d print the shape so that i have a repeatable one 😊
Chromakey background? My mojo weeps!!
You'll have no problem getting the job you're applying for because your uncle Bob works there, perhaps is even in charge of the hiring. More generally it means you're in, no problem.
Fenders quality control is crap! That asymmetrical profile is not intentional.
Just a thought, but instead of drawing around the shape, use spray paint. You’d be left with the exact profile and have no danger of deforming the line with pressure from the pencil?
The easiest and most accurate way to "mould" the neck would be a few strips of electrical tape on the neck, then build up a profile on the tape using air-dry clay. Will be hard, durable and exactly accurate. Plus reusable. Can even shape a handle on it if you were so inclined
it's interesting that no one has come up with a neck duplicating machine like old key cutting machines. Could that be built reasonably cost effectively?
Put electrical tape on the neck. Mix some auto body repair putty (filler). Oil the tape for easy removal. Put the putty over the tape.
Once hardened, remove it. Flaten the sides of the shapes on a flat sender.
If you deem the things hard enough use directly as gauges, so you only transfer to paper in order to figure out the angles for the faceting.
You can build the gauges up for easy holding when measuring.
You can also stick electrical tape on the arc of your newly made gauges so you null any difference from applying the electrical tape to protect the neck.
I am not sure if this would work but what about putting cling wrap around the neck and mixing some thick plaster, putting the plaster around the wrap and waiting for it to dry, then remove it. it should in theory leave the profile of the neck perfect in the plaster.
I know nothing about building guitars, but I would try to place some roughly-shaped pieces of cardboard or foam core on top of the tape protecting the guitar neck, tape them in place, and use some plaster of paris or other casting material, to generate negative forms.
You put the masking tape, a string of freshly boiled spaggetti and let it dry! There you go... And you can eat the rest of the spagetti!
Hi Ben could this idea work to copy a neck profile? You soak in super glue a piece of string/rope (gotta experiment with thickness) and place it around the neck on top of a piece of plastic bag instead of the masking tape (has to be something that protects the neck but doesnt stick or glue to the neck), let the super glue harden and gently pull it and cut off the excess of the plastic bag around the string/rope, technically you would have a string/rope shaped like the neck?
Good job, I like the masking tape, how do you enlarge a profile for a bigger neck?
Hi, I would have done it differently, I protected the arm with film and made a mold out of a piece of clay, let it dry and then put the shape on paper. the piece of clay was saved for future work. Good work.
I'd go about it with some sort of putty or plaster probably, letting that harden and cure and then taking a propoer slice out of it.
In the time it takes for that to cure, I can easily do other things, like... procrastinate ;)
Isn’t that a modern C profile? I believe that’s asymmetrical
With profile gauge you can just not push it by object but gently push wires towards the object, then you won't get that issue described at 1:11
A soft piece of single strand wire/paper clip may have held the shape you seek but who's to say.
One of those pin routers would probably work you just run it over the original neck and it routes the blank
Suggestion: Put a strip of baking paper around the neck, put the template on, and use a heat-glue gun on one side of the template.
Milliput is cheap and will give an accurate and solid mold to work from
I would use hot glue and a piece of card stock. Do the same tape to protect the neck then cat some card stock very close to the shape and then lay some hot glue onto the tape and push the card stock into it. Could even get away with using one of those plastic gauges with the hot glue. Simple and cheap and pretty quick and even just use it as the finishing gauge and not have to cut out another.
Sometimes the asymmetry is reversed : the neck is thinner on the bass side. I find this is a better and logical way.
A 3D Pantograph is probably the best way...
ruclips.net/video/gDOrfb3yWyU/видео.html someone like that would be useful if you're likely to do any more copies in the future.
comment about how amazing everything turned out
Could you do something with paper mache?
Use the profile tool, but rather than pressing a bunch of 'needles' into the neck, offer the tool up to the neck, and push each 'needle' one at a time until it meets the wood. Repeat. Done.
I was thinking air-drying clay on top of cling film protecting the neck.
Stewmac makes a flexible spine rule that does this perfectly
A router jig that follows the profile of the original neck and routes it onto the new neck. There are jigs out there to do that for sure and they are accurate and repeatable.
A pre cut piece of cardstock in roughly the shape then just trace the neck using the pencil and washer trick.The just cut the traced line with a scalpel.
Tight bunch of spaghetti to make an imprint, trace and refine.
How about some two part knead putty pushed around the neck that is masked off? once set you have the exact shape.
What about tapping the neck as you did then use a strip of lining paper soaked in wallpaper paste and laying over the tape then another strip on top of that then leave to dry , obviously if you have time and not in a rush
Great title
I have always wondered why everyone I meet says they are my neice/nephew!!!
For anyone looking to replicate this, I highly recommend a video by Randy's Guitars & Broncos, who has an awesome neck carving jig setup for copying bolt-on neck profiles
That's freakin' cool, man B)
Weird, how did I miss this episode, oh well bonus content for mee
Geeky! Fun! thanks for the video.
3 axis router duplication jig.
Use a regular template tape paper to it and use a compass
Ben just spray some paint on it that way you can cut it out of perspex or card 😂
Uh, a contour gauge is cheap and takes about a second.
Genuine question. Why the gloves?