D&D MONKS, BUT GOOD, Part 3: WHY is the Pathfinder 2e monk more fun?
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- Опубликовано: 24 июл 2024
- Here, we see what our five very different monk builds from Parts 1 + 2 can look forward to at higher levels, and conclude with a breakdown of HOW EXACTLY Pathfinder 2e succeeded at making monks, varied, balanced, and fun.
This is Part 3 of a three-part series, "D&D Monks, But Good" about the Pathfinder 2e monk. I do it to showcase Pathfinder 2e and also to show TTRPG designers some solutions and mechanics that I think are effective at achieving PF2E's design goals.
"D&D Monks, But Good" series: • "D&D Monks, But Good" ...
Link to TreantMonk's critique of D&D 5e monks:
• Monks Suck in D&D
"Lawyer's Critique" series about D&D 6e/"One D&D":
• "Lawyer's Critique" se...
Rules Lawyer combat demo videos:
• Rules Lawyer Combat De...
0:00 Intro
1:40 Level 6!
5:22 Higher-level class feats
9:28 Skill feats
11:10 Archetypes
12:45 Analysis starts
13:15 Can fight
17:21 Build variety
21:04 Not "MAD"
23:16 Not dependent on ki
25:01 Let's talk about Stunning Fist
28:01 Freedom
32:20 Outro
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Игры
One subtle feature of the pf2e stunning fist is that it is tied to flurry of blows, which has the flourish trait. This limits the player to at most one stun per round. If a 5e monk with multi-attack wanted to nova all their Ki at once, they could attempt a stun multiple times in a single round, greatly increasing the odds that the BBEG will fail their CON save.
I love my pf2e monk. He's a dwarven free-archetype Wrestler and is all about grapples, trips, with a minor in Demoralize. I built him to be a heavy debuffer/controller and he's great at it. Especially when he grabs two creatures at once.
"Delay" is also great for him, since if I go right after the creature I want to grapple then my team gets a whole round to wail on them while its flat-footed.
The demonstration really gave me a lot more appreciation for leaping and jumping and really told me how it's often slept on. Flight is a common consideration, but the options for jumping really present some new opportunities for avoiding difficult terrain and taking shortcuts, and I feel like they often get undersold.
Overall the combat was fantastic too; it showed a lot of the depth of PF2's combat and everyone was doing something interesting. All 5 of them felt very distinct despite being the same core class, and they got through a difficult encounter at that.
ADDITIONS/CLARIFICATIONS:
At 32:00, monks having a free hand is important because Interacting with an object (including retrieving a stowed item) costs 1 action.
Something he hasn't noriced: Gorilla stance, Viper stance and Stumbling stance do NOT have the requirement of "not wearing armor". What does this mean? Well, it means that a Strength core Monk can take the Sentinel archetype (allows to use light and medium armor at the same level as your unarmed defense, plus many other cool tricks) and literally tank up to dedicate most of his tricks to crumpling his enemy like a paper ball.
The proficiencies don’t keep up with monk expert-legendary Unarmored defense. But now, you can take kineticist archetype and take earth for heavy armor that uses your Unarmored proficiency (this also lets you have the same ac as a full plate champion, and 2 better before level 7 (and you only need +1 dex).
Monk is my favorite class in 5e, so you can be sure I loved it in pf2e. It's so much fun! And it is actually good !!!!
An excellent summary of the class, and no doubt will inspire folks to roll up a monk as their next character!
Absolutely love your content - it's incredibly informative and has helped me a ton when setting up Foundry. Honest critique. I really hope it comes off as constructive because thats really what I'm aiming for here. I've noticed your videos very often have the "DND BAD PF GOOD" kind of titles and content. Coming from someone who has fully converted from DND 5e to Pathfinder and never looked back, I personally think this is an approach that could potentially deter newcomers.
Trust me, I get it. I love PF so much and usually agree with all of your points. However, I was quite resistant to those who tried to convert me with this type of angle, and it made me even more hesitant when i was still playing 5e. The beautiful thing about Pathfinder is that it doesn't need to rely on discrediting other games to shine; it can certainly stand on its own merits.
I'm definitely not an expert on running a RUclips channel, but I genuinely believe focusing on Pathfinder's unique strengths, rather than constantly contrasting it by putting DND in a negative light, might attract more DND players curious about the system. Just thought I'd share this perspective. Hopefully, the comment section stays friendly! 😅
There are many, MANY people unhappy with the D&D monk right now. This video has a specific audience. And RUclips has its own logic.
Thanks for the concern tho - The comment section has generally been a lovely place.
First 5 seconds, man, why you gotta clip chimp yourself 😅
The monk I keep making in Pathbuilder: An Orc/Changeling using Tiger Stance, with the ancestry feats Bloody Blows and Accursed Claws, to have 3d4 persistent damage after a critical hit when attacking. The core premise also works as a Swashbuckler with Monk free archetype, so you can mix in Bleeding Finisher. A premise which is ultimately probably kinda goofy, but if I ever find a table, I'm playing it.
Really like this series!
Gives you great examples of how to play the game, as well as builds for a few variations and how they work, especially when compared to other TTRPGs.
Would love to see all the classes, especially Barbarian, Bard and Witch
i srsly feel like stance savant should be built into monks kit and it gets it at like 9th or 11th level, hoping this becomes a think the remastered
Thanks for carrying me through the last three workdays.
Or well ~34 minutes of them.
And here I wanted to see your version of the 5e monk and maybe subclasses based on your four characters.
Very cool
I've always loved martial arts characters, but I haven't played a D&D monk since 1985 (i.e., first edition) specifically because TSR and then WotC seemed to have it in for the class. So many thanks for this video!
for whatever it's worth, i think the 4E monk was the best and most interesting version of the class WotC ever printed
it ust didn't see much play because it was in a specific supplemental book for an edition whose support was dropped fairly quickly
You know with the mention again of how only the thief rogue gets +dex to damage...I kind of wonder why thief in particular is the one to get that blessing? Feels a little odd to me. "You are a thief, known for sneaking and stealing things. Here you can also do more damage with finesse weapons than anyone else.' I would expect that maybe from some sort of assassin type character more than a thief.
I would like to note that the zen archer could also take one-inch punch to use with her bow, very attractive if you can get the level 16 upgrade for knockback.
I'm GMing a PF2 campaign right now, and I wish someone else would run one so I could try. I very rarely get excited about making a 5e character, but I want to try every single class in Pathfinder 2.
Being a GM you can try all of them :))
My monk is athletics focused and has druid free archetype because campaign reasons. So if I start my turn grappling, I can start my turn by throwing them 30ft away, and then cast a difficult terrain spell, such as entanglement. Then, when they approach spending 2 actions of movement, I can wallop them, because I have 10ft reach with my inky strikes stance.
Can you do a series for the Druid please?
You can build almost any character in pathfinder, and have it work
**Almost** being the key word. A lot of GMs out there just HAAATE dual-class characters, to the point of getting nasty about applications I send to join a game.
So, out of the... I don't know, 20 or so character sheets I have pre-built, only 2 of them would be "acceptable" to most GMs. (That's if they'll allow free archetypes.)
@@KaminoZandual class is fun but very unbalanced and harder to manage. And a dual class character should never be in a party of non dual class, just like a free archetype shouldn’t be in a party without it (though free archetype is much better balance wise and imo the best way to play). So don’t expect a gm to allow dual class or free archetype unless they chose that for the campaign. And don’t expect a gm to choose dual class for their campaign in the first place.
@@KaminoZan are you
are you sending applications of dual-class characters to campaigns that don't say they're going to run duial class...
Do you think that non-staff/bow weapon-using monks feel satisfying? How are they built? I love Stances, but with so many tags it feels pointless to go for a weapon beyond range or reach.
Hi, thanks for the video
I think Whirling Throw doesn't allow to throw the target in lava or off a cliff by "Forced movement" rule : "If forced movement would move you into a space you can’t occupy-because objects are in the way or because you lack the movement type needed to reach it, for example-you stop moving in the last space you can occupy. Usually the creature or effect forcing the movement chooses the path the victim takes. If you’re pushed or pulled, you can usually be moved through hazardous terrain, pushed off a ledge, or the like. Abilities that reposition you in some other way can’t put you in such dangerous places unless they specify otherwise. In all cases, the GM makes the final call if there’s doubt on where forced movement can move a creature."
That says "if you're pushed or pulled, you can usually be... pushed off a ledge." So I think the paragraph still supports it (I hope it does! Because logic.)
Can i recover all ki points with 10 minute meditation or only 1 ki point with 10 minute meditation ?
1 point with 10 minutes, though in the Remaster there should be a higher level feat that lets you recover all of them in 10 minutes
generally it is 10 minutes of "rest" to recover 1 focus point
however Monks can get a lv.12 class feat called Meditative Focus that allows 2 focus points to be regained on a single "refocus"
then this chains into the lv.18 class feat Meditative Wellspring which gets you back all 3 focus points within a single refocus span
@@jonnyvee8744 These abilities are being replaced with the new Remaster, and I think I heard in the dev streams that it will be a single feat
@@TheRulesLawyerRPGDo you know how they will change in general with the Remaster? Is it 10 minutes to recover 1 point, so 20 minutes to recover 2, even from the start? There seems to be some confusion here, even among Pathfinder 2e RUclips creators with Paizo connections. The feat you speak about will condense the two feats many classes already get into one. But is that the ONLY change? Or is it in addition to how FP recovery will work in general?
I love Paizo, but I think getting as many of these small but important rules changes (and terminology changes) out as early as possible is extremely important.
@@Captainpigraven Before remaster: You may regain (only) 1 Focus Point by spending 10 Minutes refoccusing, if you spent one since your last refocus. After Remaster: Spend 10 Minutes refocussing and regain 1 Focus Point (no limitations). e.g. You spent all 3 Focus Points in one fight and want to refocus all, without any special Feat to speed it up, you need 30 Minutes for refocussing. Hope this clears things up.
If you feel the Monk, you are the Monk. Its one of the Oh my God feeling clases so far. Never had feared Monk so much in any TTRPG like i do with monk. They stun lock you...they Ki blast you out of existence and much worse...they can harm you in ways...you better would wished to get smashed with one or two Berserker Crits instead :D
Hey Ronald, you sometimes make great content, but it feels like every video you make is just to show how bad 5e is. It's like WoTC ran over your dog or something. I think your content would be better if you just look at PF2e as a thing of its own, without constantly comparing it to 5e in a very biased way.
If TTRPGs are going to improve, then we better be able to talk about game design openly and honestly. Non-aggression pacts protect the market leader's poor business and design practices to the detriment of consumers, indie RPGs, and the hobby.
WOTC and D&D are the "big dogs" at the RPG table. Regardless of wether people express it or not most are comparing almost all RPGs to D&D. It is important not too demean the game or its players (I don't feel Ronald does) but it is reasonable to compare the two. Especially when D&D is looking to rebuild the class.
While you're right, it's REALLY hard to do since D&D is the Big Dog and any new system will be compared to it