@@train_dude_youtube9 yes the hitachi A train type model Although the uk networker type model looks better i.e the airplane style body designs Aventras are basically modern networkers in the sense that they look very similar to 465s in the body shell
@@train_dude_youtube9 yeah of course. The 385s are A trains too just heavy commuter (lighter versions) the 385s are like Japanese influenced UK electrostars. Weird mic. 800s are basically shinkansen/395s. Although 395s are much more powerful than 800s
The NRM's videos are always excellent. It's good to see a museum with the confidence and intelligence to record what is happening now as a way of preserving that for the future.
This is interesting but as a museum I think you should be talking about these trains with a critical eye as well - for example acknowledging the deeply unpopular seats (courtesy of the DfT)and the fact that these trains were specified in a pre Covid world. These are all integral parts of the story a museum should be telling. You do this in your other CWAC vids. Nonetheless the presenter was very engaging and knowledgeable.
They don’t have dropping shoegear… the shoegear is fixed. Also, the driver can’t see where they are on the DMI… it just shows how far the driver is allowed to proceed. The only indication of where a driver may be can be obtained from the speed and gradient indications, but you’d have to know the Core *incredibly* well!
Thanks for the reel-to-reel tape machine noise when Mr Scargill walked the 250 m to the driver cab! You folks do such a great job with these - thank you!
Very interesting, but I notice no mention of the fiendishly uncomfortable seats, the high step from train to platform, nor the unreadable destination indicator.
I’ve seen this video about 15 times now, and every time it is still interesting and I am still learning from it and paying attention to all the details to get as much out of this as possible. Thanks so much for such an in-depth look at this cool unit.
Really enjoyed this video, it made a nice change of pace. Not sure I agree with the idea of Grade 3/4 ATO but otherwise really interesting. I doubt it'll happen but it'd be cool if NRM could work with Neville Hill or Crewe and perhaps bring us a video on the Class 91.
This is really interesting; it's great to see a video on the future of rail travel. Rob also made all the key concepts really easy to understand, and presented the video in a really nice way. Once again, great job!
I don't know about the 345's on Elizabeth line but HS1 does use digital in cab signalling. The difference is HS1 has fixed block sections with these trains the block length varies on the type and speed of the train, they are kept braking distance apart rather than a fixed distance apart
Just like on the Elizabeth Line that the Class 345 can drive itself when going underneath Central London. And the Class 700 Desiro City are so high tech and can handle more passengers on the core route between Bedford-Brighton.
Yeah its the same chime. It's made by AviaVox who I'd assume provided the PA systems for both Thameslink and the Dutch Railways. I believe I've also heard it in Gatwick airport.
The ones on my line are normally 12 car sets. A very large number of seats and yet of all of those there is just one which is my favourite and which I usually try to get; I’m successful about 75% of the time. So, where is this seat, and why do I like it? It’s near the back of the 11th carriage, on the left side in the row behind the one which is opposite the door to the toilet. I like it because it’s a window seat with a good view, facing direction of travel, is standard class, is a face to back seat, is close to the exit at three stations where I often get out, is close to the luggage rack and I can keep an eye on it 12:24 through the gap between the seats in front and it’s near the toilet if I need it. Fussy, aren’t I? Can’t see much wrong with the seats, but I normally only use them for short trips within London.
Is this the first train stock in the UK to have this self driving / moving block technology? Surely the Central Line "92 Stock" had something very similar 30 years ago!
Something that i have always wondered, is regarding the fact there are no vestibule doors and the train is one continuous tube, with the exception of first class, what would happen if there was a fire or smoke in the one of the coaches. Are there doors hidden from sight and able to be used in an emergency to hold back any smoke or fires, especially when travelling in the tunnels on the Moorgate branch.
Yes, there are grey slidable doors situated between some of the carriages! I wondered what their purpose was when I first noticed them! The reason you stated in your comment seems logical!
Why don't you guys do a curator with a camera on fitting ETCS to heritage vehicles. The biggest engineering challenge designing and fitting digital technologies into a very much so analogue environment!
Hehe an Indian train can be longer. Indian Express trains are minimum 13 and upto 22 cars long. The Vande Bharat Express, our indegeniously designed and built trainset can have minimum 8 cars and a max 20 cars. These are fitted with a more affordable version of TPWS, called Kavach. Our Vande metro trains are as long as the 700/1 series trains with 12 cars. These Class 700s are called Desiro city trains. Class 707 and Class 717 are other trains of the same Desiro City family.
Nice trains....but those 'ironing board' seats are a pain! Wouldn't want to have to sit on them for more than 45 minutes. . .was bad enough going to and from Moorgate and Crew's Hill a few months back!
the fact you bought a ticket on the train is all GTR and other manufacturers and TOCs need. they don't care about passenger comfort as long as there's passengers funding them
I ride these fairly often and always been intrigued why there is the quarter circle ridge infront of the cctv for the doors, why are they that shape? It is probably obvious but the shape and placement confuses me.
The placement shields the camera from the bright glare of the bodyline indicator light coming from the light behind it. The BIL's are dimmer on the side facing the CCTV and brighter on the side facing away.
You mention level boarding and that steps come down. They don't have moving or drop down steps and there is only level boarding in the Thameslink core due to the platforms being altered. Elsewhere the train does NOT have level boarding.
2:22 that is incorrect, how can it be level access if steps come down? And that’s not what happens, level access is only provided in the core section on the middle 2 doors.
2:18... apparently these 700s are level boarding now? That's a pretty big mistake to make. More basic research needed! Personally I love these trains. They function well as commuter trains
@@GregdotgregATO trains should be incapable of SPADs without human error. without human intervention like the driver touching the controls or the signaller abruptly changing aspects i don't see this being a common issue during ATO.
@@Gregdotgreg a computers scripting does what it's programmed to do. if a human programmed an error into it it will error. if they programmed it to run perfectly it will run perfectly because it doesn't have a kind of its own. components can wear down tho and make them less reliable or faulty. But without this external interference theoretically they should just do as they're told
From an engineering point of view I'm sure they are great. From a passenger point of view - not so great! I live in Bedford. It is just over an hour to travel to London (same time from Brighton). Sitting on seats which closely resemble ironing boards (if you can get a seat!) is not good. Standing is also pretty poor customer service. The units were designed down to a price for the convenience of the train operators. Not up to a standard for the convenience and comfort of the passengers.
@@barrieshepherd7694 Yet more evidence that governments should be kept as far from railway operations as possible... sadly y'alls new administration is just getting started on its tsunami of destruction.
Very nice and informative video :) After playing with ETCS in SimRail, I find the iconography it uses incredibly confusing and illogical. For something that's supposed to be a European standard, it just feels like a very French design with its obscure icons and symbols. Now obviously SimRail is currently only Polish, but still, it's supposed to be using a universal language that anyone can figure out no matter where they're from
The underlying HMI for ETCS was developed under the auspices of the UIC and Rail Industry and I agree it is difficult to initially understand but having gone through a load of human factors studies etc. I'm guessing it achieves the need for a language neutral visual display interface so that drivers from any country can use it on any train as that was the required specification. While we don't get cross border trains, with differing language drivers, in the UK the interface serves as a foundation for all implementations. I get the impression that the UK version has some customisation e.g. the Sunflower display for AWS.
From a passenger prospective, surely these have the worst interior of any new train? Iron board seating which is genuinely unpleasant and uncomfortable and lighting so bright it hurts your eyes. I always time my journeys to avoid these and ride Electrostars instead.
The DLR can either drive by itself or have a driver has, so I don’t see what’s so different about it, unless it’s because it’s a bigger capacity train carrying more people but either way nothing surprising here mate.
Yes, there are already self driving systems. They've been around since the 1920s. The difference is that all of those systems are self-contained - only one type of rolling stock, for a single purpose, separated from the rest of the system and with very limited interaction with the world around them (frequently using tunnels or elevated lines). When you start compromising on these, the complexity increases exponentially and hence why these systems are only just starting to appear on the mainline network.
These trains are disturbingly hostile from the inside...stark lighting, bland colours, no curtains, hard seats, absolutely zero attempt to make the journey even slightly pleasant 😑
@@bfapple they spoken about the third rail, third rail shoe and they said only place that have it was in London none in the north which is bit miss leading since Merseyrail has third rail, the person didn't mention about the pep trains rain on third rail
@@bfapple but they failed to mention about Merseyrail, typical Londoners don't know what the North is like, not alone been there, that person mentioned about third rail and didn't mention about Merseyrail and their third rail, since 700 runs on third rail, they were talking about it few seconds prior to the time stamp
Rob was talking about where this specific class of train picks up its power - which is overhead line North of London and third rail in London and to the South. He wasn't at all discussing the distribution of the third rail in the UK.
9:25 hazard warning lights, for when you're double parked waiting to pick up your wife. This train has everything!
That was so interesting, impressive and enjoyable. The presenter, too, was very friendly and likeable. Thank you!
😄I'm Japanese and I rode many of British trains in last month...It was so comfortable with nice landscapes!
Please stay safe working in the future!!
Shame we don't have any Shinkansens yet, but yeah our trains aren't too bad.
Speaking of Japan, the class 700s look like Japanese designs!
@@train_dude_youtube9 yes the hitachi A train type model
Although the uk networker type model looks better i.e the airplane style body designs
Aventras are basically modern networkers in the sense that they look very similar to 465s in the body shell
@@bb-3653 oooh, if the 800, 801 and 802 are hitachi, wouldn’t that sort of make them just BRITISH SHINKANSENS ✨💅
@@train_dude_youtube9 yeah of course. The 385s are A trains too just heavy commuter (lighter versions) the 385s are like Japanese influenced UK electrostars. Weird mic. 800s are basically shinkansen/395s.
Although 395s are much more powerful than 800s
The NRM's videos are always excellent. It's good to see a museum with the confidence and intelligence to record what is happening now as a way of preserving that for the future.
I liked the use of the PA at the end
Its the dutch one, idk why they used it in this video
On my knees begging for a Curator with a Camera episode on LSWR M7 245, the M7 is my absolute favourite steam locomotive 🙏
This is interesting but as a museum I think you should be talking about these trains with a critical eye as well - for example acknowledging the deeply unpopular seats (courtesy of the DfT)and the fact that these trains were specified in a pre Covid world. These are all integral parts of the story a museum should be telling. You do this in your other CWAC vids.
Nonetheless the presenter was very engaging and knowledgeable.
They don’t have dropping shoegear… the shoegear is fixed.
Also, the driver can’t see where they are on the DMI… it just shows how far the driver is allowed to proceed. The only indication of where a driver may be can be obtained from the speed and gradient indications, but you’d have to know the Core *incredibly* well!
Thanks for the reel-to-reel tape machine noise when Mr Scargill walked the 250 m to the driver cab!
You folks do such a great job with these - thank you!
Yeah, that added sound effect was brilliant!
My granddaughter calls them "the grey snakes". That's a compliment.
Its rewarding being a Driver Trainer on TL. Teaching those off the Street, etc, to the Class 700 and the new(ish) ETCS Systems. Exciting times ahead.
Hello Finley 🤣
(Tbd depot)
Very interesting, but I notice no mention of the fiendishly uncomfortable seats, the high step from train to platform, nor the unreadable destination indicator.
Nice to drive. Easy controls and a good view.
I’ve seen this video about 15 times now, and every time it is still interesting and I am still learning from it and paying attention to all the details to get as much out of this as possible. Thanks so much for such an in-depth look at this cool unit.
Really enjoyed this video, it made a nice change of pace. Not sure I agree with the idea of Grade 3/4 ATO but otherwise really interesting.
I doubt it'll happen but it'd be cool if NRM could work with Neville Hill or Crewe and perhaps bring us a video on the Class 91.
guess you'd have a hard time with the DLR
Oh, such a welcome notification. Especially of late!?
Nice ergonomic cab layout
This is really interesting; it's great to see a video on the future of rail travel. Rob also made all the key concepts really easy to understand, and presented the video in a really nice way.
Once again, great job!
When I was 8 I used to press all of the buttons in my dad's car like that 😆
Nice video on modern stock.
Brilliant!
Excellent presentation and a fantastic subject. Well done Rob
I'm pretty sure elizabeth line class 345s use digital signalling and the class 395s on HS1 along with eurostar
All signalling is digital, so to say.
I don't know about the 345's on Elizabeth line but HS1 does use digital in cab signalling. The difference is HS1 has fixed block sections with these trains the block length varies on the type and speed of the train, they are kept braking distance apart rather than a fixed distance apart
@@cedarcam I am not aware of any moving block signalling on Thameslink.
@@bfapple OK I guess it is fixed block on there like HS1
Does Eurostar not use TVM430 ?
Wow that was really interesting for a modern machine. Great presentation.
Interesting!
Thank You.
Just like on the Elizabeth Line that the Class 345 can drive itself when going underneath Central London. And the Class 700 Desiro City are so high tech and can handle more passengers on the core route between Bedford-Brighton.
11:54 Is that the Dutch Railways station announcement sound?
Yeah its the same chime. It's made by AviaVox who I'd assume provided the PA systems for both Thameslink and the Dutch Railways. I believe I've also heard it in Gatwick airport.
@Acrolvm What's also interesting is they use it on the new Amtrak Venture cars in the US too
First Class ! Loved it. Great presentation too...
Very good video as ever and interesting! I use these allot and my biggest gripes are no power sockets and those horrible tombstone seats.
Interesting stuff . Train drivers no longer required
The ones on my line are normally 12 car sets. A very large number of seats and yet of all of those there is just one which is my favourite and which I usually try to get; I’m successful about 75% of the time. So, where is this seat, and why do I like it? It’s near the back of the 11th carriage, on the left side in the row behind the one which is opposite the door to the toilet. I like it because it’s a window seat with a good view, facing direction of travel, is standard class, is a face to back seat, is close to the exit at three stations where I often get out, is close to the luggage rack and I can keep an eye on it 12:24 through the gap between the seats in front and it’s near the toilet if I need it. Fussy, aren’t I? Can’t see much wrong with the seats, but I normally only use them for short trips within London.
Very interesting. Yes, I would say that you are a fussy one. 😃
More of this please
Is this the first train stock in the UK to have this self driving / moving block technology?
Surely the Central Line "92 Stock" had something very similar 30 years ago!
@@peterwroath1166 First overground, mainline, I think.
First mainline units
Something that i have always wondered, is regarding the fact there are no vestibule doors and the train is one continuous tube, with the exception of first class, what would happen if there was a fire or smoke in the one of the coaches.
Are there doors hidden from sight and able to be used in an emergency to hold back any smoke or fires, especially when travelling in the tunnels on the Moorgate branch.
Yes, there are grey slidable doors situated between some of the carriages! I wondered what their purpose was when I first noticed them! The reason you stated in your comment seems logical!
Biggest flaw of these trains is the lack of electrical outlets outside of first class.
By policy, the back of the train is standard class whilst both ends of the train have sockets.
@TimothyEBaldwin True. But it would still be nice if an 8 or 12 coach train had more than a dozen sockets at the very back of the train.
You forgot to mention bedford as thameslink runs from Bedford to London as well
Why don't you guys do a curator with a camera on fitting ETCS to heritage vehicles. The biggest engineering challenge designing and fitting digital technologies into a very much so analogue environment!
Wait I don’t think the interlocking for Thames link is done at York Roc?? Correct me if I’m wrong
Great video
Hehe an Indian train can be longer. Indian Express trains are minimum 13 and upto 22 cars long. The Vande Bharat Express, our indegeniously designed and built trainset can have minimum 8 cars and a max 20 cars. These are fitted with a more affordable version of TPWS, called Kavach. Our Vande metro trains are as long as the 700/1 series trains with 12 cars. These Class 700s are called Desiro city trains. Class 707 and Class 717 are other trains of the same Desiro City family.
We have a safer rail traffic so we can use more trains on the line as opposed to needing fewer but longer trains.
Oir eurostars have 16 cars though
Is there any reason that Thameslink’s ETCS gets sent to York? I thought it’d be somewhere like Three Bridges ROC.
Nice trains....but those 'ironing board' seats are a pain!
Wouldn't want to have to sit on them for more than 45 minutes. . .was bad enough going to and from Moorgate and Crew's Hill a few months back!
the fact you bought a ticket on the train is all GTR and other manufacturers and TOCs need. they don't care about passenger comfort as long as there's passengers funding them
@@nqthyy1805 Ah, well, mine was a One-Day Travelcard, so they only got a fraction of the ticket price,,lol
@@nqthyy1805they should care regardless. Its the least they can do with some of the money
I ride these fairly often and always been intrigued why there is the quarter circle ridge infront of the cctv for the doors, why are they that shape? It is probably obvious but the shape and placement confuses me.
The placement shields the camera from the bright glare of the bodyline indicator light coming from the light behind it. The BIL's are dimmer on the side facing the CCTV and brighter on the side facing away.
@@akumasan42 thanks
Doesn't the Jubilee Line from the Londen underground use something similar?
Please make a video about the class 465 or 377 or 313201
You mention level boarding and that steps come down.
They don't have moving or drop down steps and there is only level boarding in the Thameslink core due to the platforms being altered. Elsewhere the train does NOT have level boarding.
How digital signalling is separate from CBTC signalling?
Eyyy
2:22 that is incorrect, how can it be level access if steps come down? And that’s not what happens, level access is only provided in the core section on the middle 2 doors.
They run to east grinstead
Can you do the class 717 and 387
how does the carriage occupancy detector work?
It takes a pressure reading off the air suspension iirc
@@innards1613 Thanks for that - I did wonder if that was the case.
1:14 this reversed video makes it look like the 700 is running in swevice with tail lights on
2:18... apparently these 700s are level boarding now? That's a pretty big mistake to make. More basic research needed!
Personally I love these trains. They function well as commuter trains
And King’s Cross
They go to King’s Cross covering for great northern because great northern they don’t have enough 387
And thameslink gose to East Grinstead
No point having digital signalling unless you can prevent the overhead electric wires falling down every time a pigeon lands on them
You really believe that this happens?
Perhaps a pigeon is tongue in cheek, but the wires coming down is a weekly event
And ATO still has SPaDs too
@@GregdotgregATO trains should be incapable of SPADs without human error. without human intervention like the driver touching the controls or the signaller abruptly changing aspects i don't see this being a common issue during ATO.
@@nqthyy1805 why is a computer infallible? It happens. Not often, but it does. Platform overshoots have happened too.
@@Gregdotgreg a computers scripting does what it's programmed to do. if a human programmed an error into it it will error. if they programmed it to run perfectly it will run perfectly because it doesn't have a kind of its own. components can wear down tho and make them less reliable or faulty. But without this external interference theoretically they should just do as they're told
From an engineering point of view I'm sure they are great. From a passenger point of view - not so great! I live in Bedford. It is just over an hour to travel to London (same time from Brighton). Sitting on seats which closely resemble ironing boards (if you can get a seat!) is not good. Standing is also pretty poor customer service. The units were designed down to a price for the convenience of the train operators. Not up to a standard for the convenience and comfort of the passengers.
I suspect that it was the Df,T not the train operators, who "designed down" for price 😂
@@barrieshepherd7694 Yet more evidence that governments should be kept as far from railway operations as possible... sadly y'alls new administration is just getting started on its tsunami of destruction.
Very nice and informative video :) After playing with ETCS in SimRail, I find the iconography it uses incredibly confusing and illogical. For something that's supposed to be a European standard, it just feels like a very French design with its obscure icons and symbols. Now obviously SimRail is currently only Polish, but still, it's supposed to be using a universal language that anyone can figure out no matter where they're from
The underlying HMI for ETCS was developed under the auspices of the UIC and Rail Industry and I agree it is difficult to initially understand but having gone through a load of human factors studies etc. I'm guessing it achieves the need for a language neutral visual display interface so that drivers from any country can use it on any train as that was the required specification. While we don't get cross border trains, with differing language drivers, in the UK the interface serves as a foundation for all implementations. I get the impression that the UK version has some customisation e.g. the Sunflower display for AWS.
The Class 700 looks like an angry insect...
It doesn't.
10:54 These freight cars don't look British, am I right?
You're right
From a passenger prospective, surely these have the worst interior of any new train? Iron board seating which is genuinely unpleasant and uncomfortable and lighting so bright it hurts your eyes. I always time my journeys to avoid these and ride Electrostars instead.
but the trains weren't built for us. they were built to generate income. so in that sense they're brilliant
What do you mean? I love breaking my back on ironing boards very time I go on them
perspective
The DLR can either drive by itself or have a driver has, so I don’t see what’s so different about it, unless it’s because it’s a bigger capacity train carrying more people but either way nothing surprising here mate.
Yes, there are already self driving systems. They've been around since the 1920s. The difference is that all of those systems are self-contained - only one type of rolling stock, for a single purpose, separated from the rest of the system and with very limited interaction with the world around them (frequently using tunnels or elevated lines). When you start compromising on these, the complexity increases exponentially and hence why these systems are only just starting to appear on the mainline network.
Will that trainset also be getting a pay rise, or is it only available to the unreliable (sick, tired, lazy) Human drivers.
Ironboad seats
Great technology and quality but its fair to rename this modern train network Southern Rail - the rest of us maybe go back to steam🤑
Please report JR East series E233 and E235
Call me old fashioned but somewhere along the line train travel has lost its soul. The romance of the railways is diminished.
I just took the night train from Amsterdam to Prague, it’s a great, old fashioned experience. Open windows, classic rolling stock, great ride
@@MrJimheeren Sounds great !
These trains are disturbingly hostile from the inside...stark lighting, bland colours, no curtains, hard seats, absolutely zero attempt to make the journey even slightly pleasant 😑
2:57 you forgot to mention that Merseyrail uses third rail as well *EDIT* before anyone else says, I miss heard what he said
@@bfapple they spoken about the third rail, third rail shoe and they said only place that have it was in London none in the north which is bit miss leading since Merseyrail has third rail, the person didn't mention about the pep trains rain on third rail
@@bfapple you clearly not watched it, the PERSON mentioned about third rail
@@bfapple and Merseyrail USES third rail, look it up, Class 506/507 PEP, the person only said LONDON
@@bfapple but they failed to mention about Merseyrail, typical Londoners don't know what the North is like, not alone been there, that person mentioned about third rail and didn't mention about Merseyrail and their third rail, since 700 runs on third rail, they were talking about it few seconds prior to the time stamp
Rob was talking about where this specific class of train picks up its power - which is overhead line North of London and third rail in London and to the South. He wasn't at all discussing the distribution of the third rail in the UK.
They are getting more ugly, bland and boring. There is no aesthetics anymore in modern trains.
@@CHINZIG_UK Lies.
Possibly the most uncomfortable train ever built - and why, oh why in this day and age do we have cloth seats with all the disadvantages they bring.
Quite possibly one of the worst trains in regards to passenger comfort. Blooming awful seats.
thank goodness for working from home means i can avoid the ironing board seats - yet another example of a spreadsheet monkey spec-ing a train.
Dreadful seats on these...
Not really.
@@TheMusicalElitisttheir opinion mate
Class 700 is junk.
@@jammiedodger7040 No it isn't.
@@LNER985 From the publics perspective the inside of the train, the seating and cabin ambiance is not the most welcoming or best.