Nice video bro! It was clarified in the last FAQ that WE need to have a combat weapon to swap out for the chainaxes, so tacticals need to buy them for 1pt, or swap their bolters for free.
For Emperor's Children, I'd argue Assault Marines as a better option - the extra mobility allows you to more often reap the benefits of +1 Initiative and the Phoenix Power Spear, as well as having a better chance of ending up in more favourable challenges. Given they can also take power weapons and melta bombs, they're ideal for getting in the enemies face as fast as possible which is optimal for a Maru Skara force imo.
A lot has changed in that time, it's why it's good to constantly update as I go. Things like the return of multi-bombing, new weaponry which really messes up power armour and means breachers are much more hardy helped come to this conclusion.
Two notes from Salamanders player: -No initiative bonus to sweeping is applied when they try to sweep. -Basic RoW gives Move through cover. Minimal squads in rhinos ignoring difficult/dangerous terrains are crazy speedy, zooming like mad. Also not slowed down by terrain during charge.
3 years late. But Legion Recon Squads in a World Eater army are surprisingly fantastic!! Give them chain axes, and then outflank. They can pop rhino level tanks when you shoot them in their rear armour. And if they aren't dealt with in a turn, and they get their charge in, you're going to have a bad day!! They help provide another element of pressure, that compliments any Outriders or Jetbikes, or Land Raider/Spartans you may be pushing up!! I've lost I think tanks in multiple games now to them. And I was the one who recommended them!!!
Saw it and was like "Aww yes, another spreadsheet video." Great breakdown of your logic for each unit, some of them were surprising choices, more so because I guess I don't think of some of the other legions so I never thought of what their troops go to should be.
You said Emperor's Children breachers were good. How should I run 10 breachers? Should I put a palantine spear on them if they charge? Flamers? Do the emperors children get crusader rules for charges? Sorry I am new! Thanks for your time.
Macca, just some thoughts. 1. [I noticed you ommited the Blackshield Marauder units. Is that intentional?] Never mind. I stand corrected. I do think it is said that blackshields don't get the love they might get al around. (nothing to do with this channel). 2. I know they aint a troop choice, but it would be nice to see a review of the heavy support marines. Though that might be good for another video where to compare: support squads, rapier batteries, heavy support marines and seekers. Could be a video basically on all kinds of regular marine fire support. Would be extensive video though, but I always feel these units are very specialised (niche driven) and vulnerable compared to tank delivering fire support. (Why else would we have invented them save for transport across battle fields). 3. In WE army I do think TS have a right over AS if you use them for objective capturing. Seeing most your army is out on front, with these guys waiting in the back line they have some great fure power and if you fail the assault, they will take the honour of that from the enemy and wipe out whatever was left to reached them. Then again, they do rely on large numbers, transports or whatever to protect them in large battles. Thanks for the video!
Well my friend would use 1 recon squard with snipers in a ultramarines army to take advantage of there legion which wasn’t a bad idea with the range they have on them so I’m a little bit surprised that u didn’t mention that
World eaters must have a closecombat weapon and they can exchange their CC weapon for free to a chain axe and terminators can exchange their power weapon for a chain axe for free it's in the faq.
@@TheRovingRebel61 Sure there's a pretty well play tested 8th ed ruleset and they've just made an updated 9th ed version. heresy30k.invisionzone.com/topic/10639-the-8ed-heresy-project-directory/
Excellent video! Can we expect a deeper dive on the different ways to run Veteran Squads down the line? For me they always seem to turn into such a points-sink that I end up running them naked as better Tacticals, they seem to have so much potential though.
The Salamanders Actually have a mini-powerhouse in tactical support squads from what I've seen: deck them with flamers keep them cheap (give em the 18" deepstrike deny on a Sgt) tuck them into a Rhino using the Rite of War: The Covenant of Fire, the rhino gets extra armor and auxiliary drive (4+ repair imobilized) and a unique invulnerable save It's a 250 pt unit that's 2+ 5++ against Melta (INCLUDING MELTA BOMBS), Flamer, Plasma & Volkites making it tougher and actually pretty cheap, friend of mine laughed that it was 250pts for 21 wounds thought he was playing Cults and Militia for a second. but he only made it apparently because he was frustrated by how bad pyroclasts were and this combo is 40pts cheaper with 2x the wounds with an identical 2+5++ against the same stuff (the Pyroclasts can't take any cheap transports apparently idk) he used em cleverly moved the rhino's jumped out burned buncha stuff with those flamers that get those +1S and once their on an objective the guy I watched him play had to deepstrike his ravenguard all around the board to avoid the series of 18" bubbles he'd created. Poor bastard charged a blob with Dark Furies an lost loads of them.
i'd argue for Sons of Horus, that tacticals are the better bet. if you go jump packs, you go reavers with jumps packs like everyone has done since the dawn of time with them over assault. Tacticals for SoH's and support squads for that matter are a nasty option with the death dealers +1BS. the common trap of SoH is the merciless fighter rule of gaining extra attacks, if you hit hard enough it hardly matters and if you run into a wall, it's likely something tough enough that the extra few attacks you get is so minor in damage it doesn't matter anyways. Hence you get something that's unreal +1BS for rapid fire, assault or pistols (not just bolters). SoH are get within 12" blast away and cut down stranglers army. it's not a heavy assault army, it's not a gun line blast away army, it's mid-field legion of short range bursts. and tacticals are ace for it for low points, objectives and cleaning up stranglers at the end of the day after big guns do the dirty work. tacticals also provide great cheap screen for said support squads to get within that 12" and blast away. that support squads tend to be fire magnets (i.e. plasma squad) which can be played as an amazing distraction carnifex from the objectives. I'm always amazed how much people will freak out over a 5 plasma squad and sink so much effort into wiping out asap.
I'm slightly upset that you didn't put grey slayers as an option for Alpha legion, when they use that one right of war. Just kidding, but it would be funny.
Recons are just the tax for the recon company rite. I made 5 stock recons for my world eaters, looks like a fair price for shrouded on the units that need to close the distance quickly and safely
Assaults not that good on Word Bearers? Hold my crozius while I chuck that Dark Channeling on them. Assaults mit Zealot without the need of a Chaplain? Nice. Assaults with S5 and S10 Power Fist? Yes, please. Assaults with 5++ and Fear? No more scoring, but still... Those 25 points on a 20 man squad really can pay off big time. Especially when you have a Chaplain with Jump Pack and another Assault unit he can attend to when yoou roll Zaelot. In addition, Word Bearer HQs easily go into Biomancy, potentially giving you access to the 4+++. Assault Marines love this shit. On another note: You claim that Breachers are more durable at multiple points. Very situational. Against all small arms? Nope. Against anything with AP3? Barely. Only in CC (but not against units that will wreck you 4:1 anyway) and against the few templates without good AP they are actually better then Tacs. For a big up in price. They have their place, but I would not recommend them as the best troops choice (exception is only IF in Stone Gauntlet). Breacher can shine as a tarpit however when they have Stubborn/Fearless. In addition, why should IH ever take Breachers, when they can have the better Immortals (inbuilt FnP, Gun them Down, better Weapons) for nearly the same price and as Troops in a Rite without any major downside.
I'm just getting into actually playing HH and have been having a bit of trouble wrapping my head around something. Exactly what books do you need to make a legion army? i see people say stuff like age of darkness, but theres a lot of stuff in the crusade books, which ones in particular do i need?
@@Grubnar my apoligies, what do you mean by red books. as for legion ive started making some iron warriors, not sure what books i would need to make them?
@@J.C136 The first "Red Book" is the LEGIONES ASTARTES: AGE OF DARKNESS ARMY LIST book, it has the rules for almost all the units used by the Space Marine Legions. www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-WW/The-Horus-heresy-legiones-Astartes-Age-of-Darkness-Army-List The second "Red Book" is the LEGIONES ASTARTES: AGE OF DARKNESS LEGIONS book, it has the rules for the Iron Warriors legion unique special units (Like Siege Tyrants, Iron Havocs, Perturabo and special characters and rites of war) and for most other legions as well. www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-WW/The-Horus-Heresy-Legiones-Astartes-Age-of-Darkness-Legions If you have these two books (they are like codexes in 40k) you will have all the rules needed to play Iron Warriors. For example, The Night Lords and Dark Angels just got a rules update in the ninth (big) Black Book, and until the Age of Darkness Legions book is re-printed with those rules in in, the black book is the only place where you can find them. So the First Legion players now need to lug around a heavy, oversized book to go with their oversized ego, serves them right! ;)
@@Grubnar Thank you for the info, so i conbine this with the "horus heresy age of darkness rulebook" to have absolutely everything i would need to play the game? www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-WW/The-Horus-heresy-Age-of-Darkness-Rulebook-2017 should i maybe wait a month or two see if they update this before purchasing?
@@J.C136 You are correct, that would be all the books you should ever need. I doubt they will update the book anytime soon. Probably not until after the 10th black book, and possibly not even then.
Henry the 9th well actually they can outflank if they’re kept as reserves, and as an Ultramarine with Ventanus plus a damocles my reserves are excellent
If you take surlack and turn them into inductti and put 19 man squads with a apoc into a kherys they turn into blender S6 tacs that will kill most things very quickly
For EC You can give Sonic shriekers to the whole squad if you give them 3rd Company Elite RoW.....so any assault marines or tac squads shine with this. However, it is completely negated against anything that ignores fear iirc. Works great with tac squads and assault squads. Havent tried breachers yet.
2:30 Where all the spreadsheet rankings are explained. Next time either use a rainbow, put up a key, or use some very distinct colors. Using two different shades of orange where one represents very good and the other very bad is poor showmanship.
God i miss Calth and prospero boxes.
SADNESS
Yeah last box i bought was calth an costed me alil over $200 not sure what the original boxset costed?
@@theezekarion164 it cost 120 usd
@@Prime1JR Thank's i appreciate that.
I don't mind paying extra considering the facts can't say I'd do it again but all in all no harm no foul
Yeah, that'd be a real boon for anyone trying to get into 30K.
This topic would be good to revise for the 2.0 version!
It's 1:30 a.m. in Europe, nonetheless i'll have to stay awake and watch
Nice video bro! It was clarified in the last FAQ that WE need to have a combat weapon to swap out for the chainaxes, so tacticals need to buy them for 1pt, or swap their bolters for free.
"Nooooo! We're Legiones Astartes, our armour is impenetrable!"
Veletaris Storm Section: "Ha ha, dozen power axes go *chop* *chop* *chop* !"
Red Butchers nails start to bite...
Chøp chøp
For Emperor's Children, I'd argue Assault Marines as a better option - the extra mobility allows you to more often reap the benefits of +1 Initiative and the Phoenix Power Spear, as well as having a better chance of ending up in more favourable challenges. Given they can also take power weapons and melta bombs, they're ideal for getting in the enemies face as fast as possible which is optimal for a Maru Skara force imo.
Maca 2 years ago: breachers suck unless in imperial fists
Maca now: breachers are best for 5 legions
A lot has changed in that time, it's why it's good to constantly update as I go. Things like the return of multi-bombing, new weaponry which really messes up power armour and means breachers are much more hardy helped come to this conclusion.
Thanks Macca, really helpful for someone like me who's (very) slowly building and painting my Heresy army, starting with Troops choices.
Two notes from Salamanders player:
-No initiative bonus to sweeping is applied when they try to sweep.
-Basic RoW gives Move through cover. Minimal squads in rhinos ignoring difficult/dangerous terrains are crazy speedy, zooming like mad.
Also not slowed down by terrain during charge.
Exactly the video I needed right about now
I genuinely don't know the mindset of someone who'd vote a video like this down! This is exactly what a Heresy Player needs to hear. Thanks Macca
I needed this as stuggling with picking a legion
It really bothers me that those Tactical and Breacher squads are both meant to be Ultramarines. They do not look like the same Legion at all.
Love this content, so little of it out there. Keep it up!!!
3 years late. But Legion Recon Squads in a World Eater army are surprisingly fantastic!! Give them chain axes, and then outflank. They can pop rhino level tanks when you shoot them in their rear armour. And if they aren't dealt with in a turn, and they get their charge in, you're going to have a bad day!! They help provide another element of pressure, that compliments any Outriders or Jetbikes, or Land Raider/Spartans you may be pushing up!! I've lost I think tanks in multiple games now to them. And I was the one who recommended them!!!
I really would love to see a Blackshield video simply because I think they're fascinating and am very tempted to do an army of them.
Saw it and was like "Aww yes, another spreadsheet video." Great breakdown of your logic for each unit, some of them were surprising choices, more so because I guess I don't think of some of the other legions so I never thought of what their troops go to should be.
I have been waiting for this one, great video
You said Emperor's Children breachers were good.
How should I run 10 breachers? Should I put a palantine spear on them if they charge?
Flamers?
Do the emperors children get crusader rules for charges?
Sorry I am new! Thanks for your time.
Macca, just some thoughts.
1. [I noticed you ommited the Blackshield Marauder units. Is that intentional?] Never mind. I stand corrected. I do think it is said that blackshields don't get the love they might get al around. (nothing to do with this channel).
2. I know they aint a troop choice, but it would be nice to see a review of the heavy support marines. Though that might be good for another video where to compare: support squads, rapier batteries, heavy support marines and seekers. Could be a video basically on all kinds of regular marine fire support. Would be extensive video though, but I always feel these units are very specialised (niche driven) and vulnerable compared to tank delivering fire support. (Why else would we have invented them save for transport across battle fields).
3. In WE army I do think TS have a right over AS if you use them for objective capturing. Seeing most your army is out on front, with these guys waiting in the back line they have some great fure power and if you fail the assault, they will take the honour of that from the enemy and wipe out whatever was left to reached them. Then again, they do rely on large numbers, transports or whatever to protect them in large battles.
Thanks for the video!
Tactical veterans are amazing in the thousand sons game I’ve played
Sons of Horus @43:56
Dumb question here, Luna Wolves would simply have SoH rules right?
Well my friend would use 1 recon squard with snipers in a ultramarines army to take advantage of there legion which wasn’t a bad idea with the range they have on them so I’m a little bit surprised that u didn’t mention that
World eaters must have a closecombat weapon and they can exchange their CC weapon for free to a chain axe and terminators can exchange their power weapon for a chain axe for free it's in the faq.
You ever checked out the community 9th edition rules? Definitely not for everyone but has been really handy for people with no 30k scene.
I'm definitely going to have to check those out.
Can you elaborate please? Or give a link? Googled it but only saw normal 40k 9th edition stuff.
@@TheRovingRebel61 Sure there's a pretty well play tested 8th ed ruleset and they've just made an updated 9th ed version. heresy30k.invisionzone.com/topic/10639-the-8ed-heresy-project-directory/
Excellent video! Can we expect a deeper dive on the different ways to run Veteran Squads down the line?
For me they always seem to turn into such a points-sink that I end up running them naked as better Tacticals, they seem to have so much potential though.
The Salamanders Actually have a mini-powerhouse in tactical support squads from what I've seen: deck them with flamers keep them cheap (give em the 18" deepstrike deny on a Sgt) tuck them into a Rhino using the Rite of War: The Covenant of Fire, the rhino gets extra armor and auxiliary drive (4+ repair imobilized) and a unique invulnerable save
It's a 250 pt unit that's 2+ 5++ against Melta (INCLUDING MELTA BOMBS), Flamer, Plasma & Volkites making it tougher and actually pretty cheap, friend of mine laughed that it was 250pts for 21 wounds thought he was playing Cults and Militia for a second. but he only made it apparently because he was frustrated by how bad pyroclasts were and this combo is 40pts cheaper with 2x the wounds with an identical 2+5++ against the same stuff (the Pyroclasts can't take any cheap transports apparently idk)
he used em cleverly moved the rhino's jumped out burned buncha stuff with those flamers that get those +1S and once their on an objective the guy I watched him play had to deepstrike his ravenguard all around the board to avoid the series of 18" bubbles he'd created. Poor bastard charged a blob with Dark Furies an lost loads of them.
Im sorry if I missed it, but did you take the ability of Assault Squads taking combat shields into consideration in your recommendations?
i'd argue for Sons of Horus, that tacticals are the better bet. if you go jump packs, you go reavers with jumps packs like everyone has done since the dawn of time with them over assault. Tacticals for SoH's and support squads for that matter are a nasty option with the death dealers +1BS. the common trap of SoH is the merciless fighter rule of gaining extra attacks, if you hit hard enough it hardly matters and if you run into a wall, it's likely something tough enough that the extra few attacks you get is so minor in damage it doesn't matter anyways. Hence you get something that's unreal +1BS for rapid fire, assault or pistols (not just bolters). SoH are get within 12" blast away and cut down stranglers army. it's not a heavy assault army, it's not a gun line blast away army, it's mid-field legion of short range bursts. and tacticals are ace for it for low points, objectives and cleaning up stranglers at the end of the day after big guns do the dirty work. tacticals also provide great cheap screen for said support squads to get within that 12" and blast away. that support squads tend to be fire magnets (i.e. plasma squad) which can be played as an amazing distraction carnifex from the objectives. I'm always amazed how much people will freak out over a 5 plasma squad and sink so much effort into wiping out asap.
I enjoyed your video mr circle
I'm slightly upset that you didn't put grey slayers as an option for Alpha legion, when they use that one right of war. Just kidding, but it would be funny.
I am hoping to get a lot of tactical squads for my iron warriors simply cause I love infantry and no moral for
Iron Within Iron Without.
Recons are just the tax for the recon company rite. I made 5 stock recons for my world eaters, looks like a fair price for shrouded on the units that need to close the distance quickly and safely
great vid, though I have a question:
Would the Space marine Hunter work as a good Iron Warriors Whirlwind Scorpius?
Not really, the two look nothing alike. Personally, I would allow you to use it as a stand-in ... but it is far from being a "good" option.
Pride of legion is fun choice with alpha legion. Vets with their special rules+ mutible tactics makea a very flexible army.
All of my troops are Alpharius.
Same here
Or is it?
Except that one emo guy who hangs out in the back that took the message of Dead Poets Society to heart.
Assaults not that good on Word Bearers?
Hold my crozius while I chuck that Dark Channeling on them.
Assaults mit Zealot without the need of a Chaplain? Nice.
Assaults with S5 and S10 Power Fist? Yes, please.
Assaults with 5++ and Fear? No more scoring, but still...
Those 25 points on a 20 man squad really can pay off big time. Especially when you have a Chaplain with Jump Pack and another Assault unit he can attend to when yoou roll Zaelot.
In addition, Word Bearer HQs easily go into Biomancy, potentially giving you access to the 4+++. Assault Marines love this shit.
On another note: You claim that Breachers are more durable at multiple points. Very situational.
Against all small arms? Nope.
Against anything with AP3? Barely.
Only in CC (but not against units that will wreck you 4:1 anyway) and against the few templates without good AP they are actually better then Tacs. For a big up in price. They have their place, but I would not recommend them as the best troops choice (exception is only IF in Stone Gauntlet). Breacher can shine as a tarpit however when they have Stubborn/Fearless.
In addition, why should IH ever take Breachers, when they can have the better Immortals (inbuilt FnP, Gun them Down, better Weapons) for nearly the same price and as Troops in a Rite without any major downside.
Can i get a response on when the World eaters are up? This is too long for one sitting for me.
I'm just getting into actually playing HH and have been having a bit of trouble wrapping my head around something. Exactly what books do you need to make a legion army? i see people say stuff like age of darkness, but theres a lot of stuff in the crusade books, which ones in particular do i need?
It depends on the legion. For most, the two red books are enough.
@@Grubnar my apoligies, what do you mean by red books. as for legion ive started making some iron warriors, not sure what books i would need to make them?
@@J.C136 The first "Red Book" is the LEGIONES ASTARTES: AGE OF DARKNESS ARMY LIST book, it has the rules for almost all the units used by the Space Marine Legions.
www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-WW/The-Horus-heresy-legiones-Astartes-Age-of-Darkness-Army-List
The second "Red Book" is the LEGIONES ASTARTES: AGE OF DARKNESS LEGIONS book, it has the rules for the Iron Warriors legion unique special units (Like Siege Tyrants, Iron Havocs, Perturabo and special characters and rites of war) and for most other legions as well.
www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-WW/The-Horus-Heresy-Legiones-Astartes-Age-of-Darkness-Legions
If you have these two books (they are like codexes in 40k) you will have all the rules needed to play Iron Warriors.
For example, The Night Lords and Dark Angels just got a rules update in the ninth (big) Black Book, and until the Age of Darkness Legions book is re-printed with those rules in in, the black book is the only place where you can find them.
So the First Legion players now need to lug around a heavy, oversized book to go with their oversized ego, serves them right! ;)
@@Grubnar Thank you for the info, so i conbine this with the "horus heresy age of darkness rulebook" to have absolutely everything i would need to play the game?
www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-WW/The-Horus-heresy-Age-of-Darkness-Rulebook-2017
should i maybe wait a month or two see if they update this before purchasing?
@@J.C136 You are correct, that would be all the books you should ever need.
I doubt they will update the book anytime soon. Probably not until after the 10th black book, and possibly not even then.
Any chance of time stamps for each legion?
Do legion commands next! Their bike/jetbike variants are pretty shit after going through them...
Vets squads can out flank correct?
If you give them the Marksmen tactic, yes they can.
ghost2666 they don’t have marksman anymore unfortunately
Henry the 9th I’m confused? Why?
Shooter Mcgavin Read the FAQ
Henry the 9th well actually they can outflank if they’re kept as reserves, and as an Ultramarine with Ventanus plus a damocles my reserves are excellent
Mk 2 is my favorite power armor, may it rip
Can't weit for the Blackshields
How do Tac Squads in a World Eaters Drop Army Perform?
If you take surlack and turn them into inductti and put 19 man squads with a apoc into a kherys they turn into blender S6 tacs that will kill most things very quickly
Guys, help me choose between night lords and word bearers
When you go all stabby-stabby on someone, do you do it for the lulz, or because god told you to?
For EC You can give Sonic shriekers to the whole squad if you give them 3rd Company Elite RoW.....so any assault marines or tac squads shine with this. However, it is completely negated against anything that ignores fear iirc. Works great with tac squads and assault squads. Havent tried breachers yet.
2:30 Where all the spreadsheet rankings are explained.
Next time either use a rainbow, put up a key, or use some very distinct colors. Using two different shades of orange where one represents very good and the other very bad is poor showmanship.
New 30k rules dropping soon , I know that some plastic kits dropping too plastic Spartan and deimos rhino .
More primark fluff would would be more interesting 😏😏😏😏🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂