Why the Hydrogen Infrastructure Isn't Ready
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- Опубликовано: 8 июл 2021
- Is a hydrogen car REALLY more convenient than an EV? Can you road-trip a hydrogen fuel cell car? They say you can fill up your tank as quickly as with gasoline while enjoying the quiet ride of an EV. Best of both worlds? Zack Klapman took the 2020 Hyundai Nexo Limited on a 700-mile road-trip to find out.
The 2020 Hyundai Nexo Limited is the only fuel cell SUV on the market. It's hydrogen competitors are the Honda Clarity and Toyota Mirai.
#hydrogen #Hyundai #Tesla #Mirai
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More old Zack. Love to hear old Zack's opinion which sport cars have the best accessibility options for old Zack.
Old Zack Rants should be a thing.
Maybe the real hydrogen car review was the friends we made along the way!
Great concept with the hydrogen no more waiting to charge the battery cant wait for them to figure out quick loading the fuel tank
good point
Audio issue fixed.
why its only 720p?
@@peturtrump3773 It's ̶1̶4̶4̶0̶P̶ 2160P now. On RUclips's end, it takes some time after a video is first uploaded for them to process higher resolutions. Most big channels including TST schedule their videos to become available to view at a chosen time, and it's usually long after it's been fully processed in HD. This video must've been made available immediately after uploading, obviously due to the re-upload.
Good job on making a potentially boring video about a bad experience feel entertaining and informative, Zack.
The comedy with old zack and fake-grumpy GF was amazing!
That “thud” from the squirrel was hilarious
Maybe get deer whistles?
40-50 cars before you arrived (2 hours) but it takes 10min before welcome screen after a charge....that tech support is lying brother 😂
I think it was a different brand. They only make these cars as a favor to oil companies b/c you can get cheap hydrogen by converting natural gas. Basically car makers can "pretend" they have some new technology around the corner that will solve all our problems and never really do anything with it, it's a way of preventing progress.
Great video! Seems crazy that in 2 hours, 40-50 cars depleted the remaining percentage of the tank - especially knowing how long it takes to fill the cars. I wonder if true zero pumped the number of cars a bit to save face?
My thoughts exactly
Ya specially since you have to wait 20 min before filling up between cars..
I doubt theres even 40-50 hydrogen cars on the road lmao
Real talk, I hope the podcast is still a thing for many years.
Old man Zack is hilarious
I'm surprised people have actually bought these cars tho
I can only see this working for fleets that generate their own power and make hydrogen locally, solar in much of the US, hydro on river valleys. But this is going to be for vehicles that come back to base, so buses, delivery vehicles, maintenance fleets could and would all be excellent candidates, but for private passenger cars, mass adoption is a miiiile off.
Agreed.
Yep, takes up too much space for small use.
mmm, so fleet is the win, which is where the sales volume is, thanks for this
@@TheSmokingTire Actually you are all wrong. Remember electric cars and how it took about a decade to get 500 charging stations across the country. This is the tesla story all over again.
@@singular9 Except this time each hydrogen station costs 1-3 million dollars to install, instead of a few hundred thousands dollars per supercharger station. If Hyundai and Toyota were serious about these cars, they would be covering the capital cost of installing fuel stations, like Tesla did with their Superchargers, and like VW is doing with Electrify America. The truth is, the hydrogen infrastructure is untenably expensive, it's only propagated in California due to gargantuan government subsidies. The natural gas industry has been producing blue hydrogen, and has used lobbying influence to trick green-eyed California into adopting a fueling infrastructure that is just another fossil fuel in disguise. Wake us up when/if all of these pumps are selling green hydrogen, then we can actually make an accurate assessment about how viable hydrogen passenger cars actually are.
Thanks for experiencing it for us
Hilarious review, thanks for the content.
Zack replaced Tom Hanks in the movie Cast Away except he was actually waiting to get his car fuelled.
Like this type of format. Roadtrip review type of video. Hope there's more of these in the future.
Loved this video, your side bits cracked me up
The little clips were hilarious as always Mr Klapmann
How did I just watch this for free? This is free GOLD!
This is such a great honest review of the ownership experience with an H2 car.
This was a great and informative video!
Really enjoyed the podcast. Bummer trip, dude!
It show how some manufacturer can't keep it simple.. you have to use renewable energy to make the hydrogen. Save a step. Change the battery . Don't make it harder. It probably a whole lot cheaper to make chargers than hydrogen pumps.
Interesting how this cars biggest issue isn't the car itself but the fueling infrastructure
Reminds me of electric cars in 2010 when we had 500 charging stations nation wide.
Zack, small correction on the specs. The battery is 1.6 kWh and can output 40 kW.
Was about to say, 40kWh they could just add electric charging. This is like confusing miles and miles per hour.
I can't imagine the irony of somebody buying a hydrogen car to avoid EV charging times, only to get stuck at an H2 filling station where you are literally waiting for the hydrogen pump to recharge. Fuck me sideways.
Well congrants, you are part of the Hydrogen experiment. Be thankful, you should feel inspire; you are really doing something innovative. Unlike other cars
It's a total dead end.
"Can you Road-Trip a Hydrogen Car?" I don't live in cali so i can't DRIVE a hydrogen car.
Hydrogen is like an EV with extra steps, just plug in and charge a battery for 20 min and go...
As someone who would love to get a business loan, the lack of vision from these hydrogen providers is incredible. You have high demand that is only increasing, and a virtual monopoly on the only route between two cities. There isn't a bank in the country that wouldn't fund an expansion in stations and station capacity along with securing contracts with several hydrogen resuppliers to makes sure there is never a situation with no backup. This is supply chain 101. It is extremely commplace to build into those vendor contracts a clause that requires them to have a buffer just allocated to you, much like Toyota did with semiconductors.
I work for a company that makes compressors that are used in hydrogen fuel stations too. At this moment, 700 bar refueling is still a technical challenge and expensive.
The buffer tank in the station is usually at 900 to 1000 bar (14.000 psi). The buffer can be a large tank, but its more practical to have multiple cylindrical tanks for the buffer. The compressor then takes hydrogen from ~300 bar storage tanks and keeps the pressure in the buffer tank(s) well above 700 bar. That is when you get the 5 min refills.
Interesting! Would a solution be to have more of those buffer tanks at one filling station? Do they each require their own compressor?
@@TheSmokingTire you have to match the buffercapacity with the expected demand. Unless you have on site H2 production, the most common version is there is a storage that consists of a battery of multiple cylindrical tanks that arrive by truck. Similar tanks to what you'd use for welding. The hydrogen is stored at "low" pressure. Then the compressor system boosts the pressure to about 1000 bar in the buffer tanks, which is often similar to the battery of cylindrical tanks used for storage. These compressors, often diaphragm, are high pressure, low flow compressors. So if the buffer capacity is too low, the compressor might not be able to keep up with demand. A single compressor and all related equipment is easily € 1000.000. so an extra compressor is too expensive, a larger size is more economical if you need more capacity. An extra battery of buffer tanks is way cheaper.
Petrol stations have had decades of development, H2 stations still need to go through that to see what works best. Diaphragm compressor, liquid piston, or something else.
Because of the cost of the H2 station, for passenger vehicles the price of H2 will remain high. For commercial vehicles, planes, ships, seems to make more sense. And "grey" hydrogen is not that much better than gasoline. But its still early days, lets see what the future brings. The Nexo is a great car though
sounds exciting, keep going with these, as it is kind of important to the direction we go, power output is going very high right now, so far 1300hp+ hydrogen powertrains are ready to go
Yeesh. Meanwhile I just finished a 5k+ mile road trip through MT, WY, CO and other states in my Tesla MS no problem. Can charge at home. Charge at hotels (often for free). Tesla Supercharger network is vast. Car is ready to go (about 20 min) before I am since I usually use a charging stop as a break or for food.
Anyone saying EVs don’t work for travel or takes too long to charge, has no clue about a Tesla. And range on new Teslas are over 400 miles on a single charge.
It’s crazy that anyone would want one of these boondoggles hydrogen cars.
No. Where in the world do you fuel up? We've done road trips with an EV but this is next level masochism.
LOL ask all the tesla drivers from 2010 when we had no charging stations.
I would have left the POS at the station and told Hyundai to come pick it up. This is a solution is search of a problem.
At 15:32 Such a misleading chart; the "tail pipe emissions" they show are deplorably inaccurate
Thank you for suffering for others so we don’t have to.
There maybe a parable in there somewhere trying to get out.
Just listening to the crew show podcast set my blood to inferno level so I can imagine what you went through and it ain’t right.
Now you know how all the early tesla adopters feel like.
Can you charge the battery on a plug?
What I don't get is why don't they make this a plugin hybrid, so you can charge up and get maybe 100 miles of range from an EV charge station, then more range with hydrogen? Probably b/c they know no one will ever actually use hydrogen if that option is available, because it's more expensive, and users would probably never even use the system at all, lol.
Yeah, 40KWh battery is no joke. Would help out immensely and open eyes to the benefits of electric vehicles. Hmm... Maybe that's why it's not an option.
Surprised to hear that there are queues of cars at hydrogen filling stations. I would imagine that the serious lack of filling stations would turn most people away from adopting FCVs but apparently not. But it does show that the infrastructure is barely able to keep up with current demands (which in itself is quite small in the grand scheme of things). Not to mention the mechanism of having “a tank fills a tank that fills your tank” takes too long. The biggest advantage of FCVs compared to BEVs is the shorter refilling time but that obviously isn’t the case with this system. But I’m sure that would be less of a problem if there was more than just ONE refilling kiosk available at any one time.
In my country there's one station and to get fuel and back home is 240km
Holy shit, zach looks different than I thought he would, ive only listene to the podcast
LOL "WE'RE TRYING TO SAVE THE PLANET"
Yea it's a neat idea, but without the infrastructure to support it I don't see it going anywhere. Unless you live in one of those areas and don't try to take it on trips etc., it doesn't make much sense. Also, I'm curious how well that Hydrogen->electricity equipment will last long term - 100k, 150k miles down the road. Electric vehicles are pretty low maintenance, but this just adds to that complexity, and what you get is a "quicker charge" (on paper, apparently), and you lose the large batteries that you could charge from the wall.
Hey Matt, can you review the Mercedes S63 AMG sedan?
so, if you can do a video mainly on the car side, not the other antics of filling, which by January 2022 will already be exponentially
40kwh battery wow so the same amount as one of the Kona models lol
Hyundai-Kia working on weird Hydrogen hybrid car with 700hp. They tested it in a Stinger body last month. Let hope the future is better than this.
So it's still heavy, more complicated, way slower, has way more parts than an EV.. More maintenance, more to go wrong, more to service years down the road if you can find parts or anyone that knows how to fix this thing. And you can't fill it up at home, and it uses double the energy per mile of an EV once you factor in the hydrogen creation and distribution. Oh, and it takes 10 minutes to fill. A Model 3 adds about 125 miles of range in the first 10 minutes of plugging in at low charge... Oh yeah, and the infrastructure for H2 stations is impossibly complicated and expensive. Hydrogen is awesome. :D Maybe it'll make sense on planes and helicopters for a more portable fuel.
It has a 1,6 kWh battery with an output of 40 kW
@@user-yn5sk5ru5g Oh duh, that makes more sense.
Saving the plant is a giant pain in the ass.
said every tesla owner from 2000 to 2012
@Zack. One question I had after the podcast, which didn’t get explained here, how much capacity did the tanker truck of hydrogen add to the fuel station? The station went through 20% in 2 hours. What did he tanker bring that back up to? 100%? 50%? Get that tanker guy on the show!
Not sure but I assume 100%
I don’t understand why they can’t install like 2 other small tanks so that when your filling up one of the other tanks are being primed.?. IDK
Yeah, 1 fill tank per "pump" would make sense. Or an actual compressor to get the hydrogen into the car. Propane and CNG cars have been around for decades and they don't seem to have the issues that hydrogen has.
@@paul66766 it goes: storage tanks at low pressure -> compressor-> buffer tanks at low pressure.
If there really where already 50 cars that refilled in the last 2 hours, how many total that day? No way the station was designed for so much throughput. Probably a result of it neing the only station along the route.
There is not 1 buffer tank per refill point. There is a battery of multiple tanks to buffer the hydrogen at high pressure.
If the storage tanks are too empty, low pressure, it takes longer to fill the buffer tanks to 1000 bar.
Deja Vu
good car
This is amazing. Terrible. But amazing tv
I think your fatal flaw here may have been filling up in Santa Monica and taking 5 rather than at Santa Barbara and going up 101. Looks like it would have shaved 90 miles off the trip and you wouldn't have to rely on a single pump in Coalinga. The one in Thousand Oaks maaaay have worked as well but it'd be cutting it close. (Disclaimer: I leased a Nexo last week and must therefore zealously defend my purchase.)
So infrastructure is lacking.
was this a double break up video 😆
I own my Nexo here in Korea and I absolutely love it! No visible loss of range in winter, fast charging, feature rich. Of course, in places with poor refueling network FCEVs are far from the top of anybody's wish list. The Fuel Cell tech itself has future.
Spot on review… Their incompetence is staggering. Class action lawsuit headed the way of TrueZero.
Hydrogen cars will become a lot more viable in the future simply because the hydrogen distribution infrastructure is going to have to be build up for the modes of transport that batteries just aren’t good enough for, namely aviation and shipping.
Energy density isn’t there w/ hydrogen for either one of them. Especially aviation.
Hydrogen might be able to work for the trucking industry but not for regular transportation. Zach didn't give the range but it must be low
@@macberry4048 Limited range is 354.
@@TheSmokingTire that's the next thing I hate about hydrogen cars. Over 500 mile range would beat electric cars
@@macberry4048 Hydrogen cars have 300+ miles of range easily. Which is more than most electric cars.
Moral of the story...dnt get a hydrogen car for road trips...yet anyway
It's not quite there yet. But I'm sure one day hydrogen will be useful.
12:20 if it takes 10/15 minutes to fill up, how can 40/50 cars go through in 2 hours? You definitely got lied to…
When the station is working correctly, a refill should take about 5 mins. If 50 cars filled up, it could be the storage tanks where too depleted to refill with 700+ bar and refilling takes longer
More likely 14-15
Safe to assume that if the smaller transfer tank is full then a fill up takes the same amount of time as filing up w/ gas. W/out knowing the size of the tanks and pumps you can’t calculate how many cars could fill up at this speed or how fast the transfer tank takes to fill.
Something is up with the camera or editing? I am getting a lot of posterization in the video
Your old man voice sounds like an old bill burr.
As much as I want hydrogen fuel cells to succeed in the US, I don't think the infrastructure will ever be there. Smaller and more densely populated countries will benefit from this tech than the US will. Areas that can't support street level parking for all cars should seriously consider transitioning into hydrogen instead.
Then you could just impelement it in NY or Cali and stop. Seems like a neat alternative.
@@RCXDerp then they really only become viable in a handful of regions of the country. I don't think that will be enough demand of hydrogen to ultimately drive the cost of fuelling down. For the US it seems FEVs are more viable seeing that there's already a good number of private companies that are starting to build public charging stations.
The same issue of no stations to fill up at existed when automobiles were brand new. Over time the infrastructure was expanded. It’s going to be the same thing w/ hydrogen. The issue is production of the hydrogen itself.
It all depends on how much the oil industry is willing to lose in order to stay in business. From what I can tell hydrogen doesn't really change anything except the cars are more expensive, the fuel is more expensive and it takes away the option of making your own fuel like you can with electric cars. The government might also like hydrogen because it helps them maintain their fuel tax infrastructure because it's harder to tax people when they can make their own fuel
interesting, do you think the client might jump straight to hydrogen from ICE, like forget battery cars, please let us know as a priority
Car companies apparently don't study history. It's always about logistics.
Oh they do study more than you do. Took tesla a whopping 15 years to get enough charging stations to make a tesla model s (a 80k car at the time) viable.
Sick looking SUV.
Why did it take so long for me to see he’s using a filter to look old!?
Great question. Did you think it was makeup?
@@TheSmokingTire i thought it was a video from someone else sitting in line waiting for H2
I live in southern Indiana (not by choice) and there is one hydrogen fueling place, and it is at the local office of a power company. I never see anyone fueling up so I assume it’s more of a gimmick or they use hydrogen for a few of their work trucks. Intriguing but not even close to everyone adopting.
Sounds like the tesla story all over again. Not enough charging stations who would ever buy one? 15 years+ later, looks like things are getting better.
world ending problems
Long term, Hydrogen>Lithium EVs. Hydrogen vs Solid State Battery EVs is the real battle for the future.
Wait you can’t just pour water into it?
After this experience I would return that vehicle and apply a sledgehammer to every body panel. Guess you cant blame Hyundai but that infrastructure is a total joke! Ok, sledgehammer to the charging stations too
"it'll be just like EVs, they'll catch up"
Can you immediately fill up with hydrogen at your house?
The answer is no. Just no.
Wow, that's your response after killing an animal? Just laugh it off? Not even check to see if they're dead or so far gone they need to be put out of their mystery?
Good show. A $62k paperweight, one for tech geeks and greenies.
Biden? That you? Who let you out?
If you were in an electric car with only 2 charging stations to rely on you wouldn't make it even if those stations worked perfectly.
With 3 or 4 (or more, depending on your car and how you drive, and the weather, and how many times you had to precondition) charging stations to rely on for the trip the result would've probably been even worse since EV stations are rally often kaputt and are usually not fixed quickly at all.
Obviously hydrogen isn't regular-use-ready, they haven't received the same billions and billions of subsidies that EVs have. (Or moron investors haven't been conned by a hydrogen-Elon to pour in billions, funding their fuelling stations)
One of the problems is also that there was only one physical pump for the hydrogen. At EV charging stations they are usually built in 4 or 8 packs so even if one charger is down, you can use another one. In Zach’s instance here EV would be way more convenient. He has stated on the podcast he has made this trip in multiple EVs no problem.
@@jakeb4962 Where I live it's very typical to only have one EV charger per station (low population density outside the main cities), so I experienced first hand how bad EVs can fail.
You are totally correct that immediately once you have another hydrogen fill-up unit there or even more likely to be seen sooner: another hydrogen station nearby the problem basically goes away. Especially since hydrogen cars have so much range and can fill up so fast.
At 15:33, what a crock about EV cleanliness vs “future” hydrogen fuel cell station. EVs are much cleaner and don’t require transport of fuel trucks either.
40 hydrogen cars in 2 hours?! only in California
All these annoying stories remind me of my problem with Tesla. It starts with Tesla replacing buttons with a touchscreen and everyone thought that was amazing. The really annoying trend Tesla started is building charging stations without attendents and building their station like everyone lives in California where is always sunny and it doesn't rain. I think hydrogen cars are dumb but thanks to Tesla they are starting like nice but if the hunt for a refilling station was so desperate than that means the hydrogen cars don't have enough range
If it's this difficult to have a hydrogen car in California, then there's no hope for that technology in the US. Just buy a fuel efficient petrol car and save yourself the hustle.
Or a hybrid
Infrastructure build out takes time. But there has to be a market for the product to build out the infrastructure. Gas stations were spread out like this when the automobile was first adopted. But in their case their was a market for them so infrastructure was built.
@@Bob_Smith19 Hydrogen cars have been hyped for a long time, longer than EVs. A lot of years ago Top gear did a feature on the Honda FCX Clarity and called it the future of motoring, but hydrogen was surpassed very fast by the EV infrastructure.
"It was now 9:00 p.m. at night"
As opposed to... 9:00 p.m. in the morning?
(7:42)
This is how people talk. You're not clever.
You learned a lot? Did you learn how to read a map before road tripping? Would've helped you find an appropriate route :)
For such a rich country, the US is so far behind in hydrogen and EV charging stations. Rediculous
"Rich" has nothing to do with it. Low adoption rates with regards to EV and especially hydrogen vehicles is the bigger issue, as well as the massive size of the US when it comes to stations. However, hydrogen vehicles are simply not being bought by Americans. When the cost of the hydrogen ends up being twice as expensive per mile as gasoline, it just doesn't appeal. The low cost of recharging EVs doesn't help that fact either. We are going towards more hybrid vehicles and EVs in the near future. I just don't see hydrogen powered vehicles going anywhere here.
@@ethinos2719 to be honest, hydrogen for passenger vehicles makes little sense. With 350 kW charging for EV's, charging time is no issue anymore. For commercial vehicles, planes, ships, it makes more sense
@@user-yn5sk5ru5g Until the costs of hydrogen come down to levels similar to gasoline or diesel, I really don't see it as a viable alternative.
@@user-yn5sk5ru5g Charging time is a HUGE issue still. A trip I take regularly takes 5 1/2 hours in my petrol car. In a long range Tesla model 3, that is extended to almost 9 hours.
Foreigners always underestimate the size of the US. When Europeans are here on holiday, for a week, and I hear them say they’re going to drive from NYC to Chicago and then onto Las Vegas all I can do is laugh. Infrastructure build out of any type is a massive undertaking in the US.
Also, we are massively in debt. To the tune of trillions of dollars. The US being a rich country is a facade.
This entire video tantrum could have been done in a sentence. "The down side to hydrogen fuel cell vehicles is simply the lack of fueling infrastructure."
How about more time spent on what seems to be "This vehicle works very well, yay hydrogen." The same issue exists with battery electric as well. Aside from the time to charge, a massive amount of charging stations are not working properly or they are already tied up when you arrive.
Hydrogen has a much better potential, but of course, we will need expanded infrastructure for fueling.
All of this complexity and hassle and the impact to vehicle reliability in the name of emissions is all B.S. Cars and tractors and all the rest they are ruining are a drop in the bucket compared with heavy industry. It's politics and good for the car business because none of our vehicles will last in an affordable way beyond a warranty period.
Gas vaporization where you heat gasoline in containment an turn it from a liquid to a vapour increases fuel milage by 5 times !. It creates 99% combustion, California compliant without catalytic converters and because of complete combustion the valve train an internals are clean after 200000 miles and yet.
Like the electric car the industry is trying to sell you another Paper weight 😉.... Hugs
Junk