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I think I found a minor issue that blocks the Magic Jar use case. The casting time if Magic Jar is 1 minute. Spells with casting times longer than 1 action require your concentration every turn to cast them, breaking concentration on Suggestion. So you'll need a friend/ accomplice to help you pull this off.
Reminder that the Oblex exists, so a seemingly ordinary person whose magical signature is that of an ooze reeeeeally seems like an Oblex to a knowledgeable monster hunter.
@@reiyoka And everyone wonders why I play my wizard as if everyone and everything is lying to me. I get weird looks but this was something that I looked at in the past. I had a wizard that used magic aura to suppress all magical indicators from his stuff. I also placed a very fun security system in my Tower and changed it to illusion. Every time we went there I spoke the safe passage word and when asked I told everyone that it was a Magic Mouth glyph to announce an unexpected visitor in reality there were a chain of glyphs that among other things eventually included Power word kill.
There is no spell or other magical effect that can detect the creature type of an ooze. 2014 Ranger's Favored Enemy is not considered magical, and would therefore not be affected by NMA.
This spell, like Planar Binding, is one of those spells where the literal intended use case of the spell is clearly bad for the game and not something that should have ever been allowed. The purpose of Planar Binding is to bind some kind of entity into your service which can easily become wildly unbalanced even without using summons because it is inevitable you encounter some powerful fey or fiend in combat. Similarly, Nystul's is now explicitly designed to be able to allow the fundamental rules of the games to be warped, it is almost like achieving Arbitrary Code Execution (ACE) in D&D. I always find it grimly hilarious when people complain about "abusing" these spells when the problematic function of the spell is the intended use case.
The spell school, flavour text, and original wording imply that the intended use case is to avoid detection from like dangerous magical glyphs or detect evil & good, not a means of making almost anything a legal target for almost anything.
@@aedwa021 Put them in the DMG with clear warnings that they break fundamental assumptions about how the game is played and are inappropriate for most games. It's fine for them to be on class spell lists as long as the game sets the expectation that these are only available if the DM allows it, much like the Death Cleric and Oathbreaker Paladin in 1st edition 5e.
"I am under DNA with WOTC [...]" (Text on screen at 9:44) - I know Kobold probably meant "NDA" but the idea of WotC getting sinister with "23 and me", while discussing this particular spell is funny.
This sounds like Slavery with extra steps, in fact it would make a great campaign. Party lands on a island or kingdom where the citizen are enslaved by a evil lich king. That used Nytsul's aura and planar binding on them.
I actually love the non-broken uses of this spell! Make your ring of protection detect as nothing. Change your alignment to neutral. Make your mundane sword look magic, make your magic sword look mundane! So many fun little things!
Found a Dwarven Thrower but your barbarian isn't a dwarf? Holy Avenger but no paladin? Heck, even an intelligent weapon can be fooled, as long as you avoid being too egregious w
y'know a fight between 2 really powerful wizards in 5e would be so extremely cursed, there's no energy beam slinging and barrier shields like you'd see anywhere else, just nystul, magic jar and prestidigitation tech lmao
that has always been the case. fireballs and lightning bolts are flashy and good against large numbers of fodder; but the flashy stuff is usually not very good at high levels. that's when you get into contingencies, counterspells, and one-hit incapacitations.
My friends and I have a term for abusing shenanigans in 5e. Mayonnaise simulacrums. Basically, a level 1 artificer, level 17 wizard, a completely normal and fairly optimal build, loses their mind and takes one more level of Artificer now that they have access to Wish and have decided to ruin everything. They begin wishing for simulacrums and create a demiplane which explodes exponentially with more simulacrums, all of whom replicate magic item to create alchemy jugs. The gods have about 9 hours to stop this before it hits critical mass. After that, each of the approaching-infinity (even 1 hour is 2 ^ 599?) wizards produce 4 gallons of mayonnaise from 2 alchemy jugs. At any point, a tide of infinite mayonnaise simulacrums could wash over any D&D situation like vacuum decay. See also: the Endless Mayo Sea, the Plane of Negative Mayonnaise, the Mayofell, Mayo Celestia, Mayonnaise Binding, and Nystul's Mayonnaise Aura.
If you want to be an evil DM, and/or your players are into this type of "actions have consequences" thing, you could allow the Nystul's Magic Aura + Planer binding combo to let player's build an army... Then as that starts to get boring/difficult to manage have a creature show up that can cast "dispel magic" to end Planner Binding, create an "antimagic field" to suppress Planer Binding, and/or use the Wish spell for a non-spell effect, creating an encounter where some/all of that army of mind slaves are suddenly free from the players' control...
Thematically, I like that you can use it to use magic items or access things you otherwise couldn't (it seems like a very DM or story oriented spell where you have things like Mindflayer or undead related items). I feel like if the party can somehow subdue something like an ancient dragon for 30 days and agree on who gets to try take the body, they are free to try (in my games). It could make for a decent endgame mission where the players help an NPC get back to their true form which was stolen from them previously or something. There's the natural story thread of having a big forbiddance spell which disintegrates any, let's say demon, who enters naturally so all the more intelligent demons mask themselves with Nystul's Magic Aura to enter the forbiddance resulting in the players needing to identify them through other means. My favourite idea with it is having it as the passcode for a mages guild. There's a symbol on the front door which they change every day and if anyone who isn't a plant type on this specific day walks up to, it explodes. Is it entirely overly complicated and a waste of magical abilities compared to a simple codephrase? Yes, which makes it perfect for a mages guild. Regarding niche interactions, shoutout to turning your entire party undead to get a +5 damage boost with the 2014 oathbreaker's aura of hate. Truly the most munchkin combination until your enemy breaks out their own divine smite.
Yeah... it would be funny for someone to try this... then when they try to use the Possessed Dragon to fight the other BBEG, one of his lackeys hits you with Dispel magic and now you have to fight the BBEG AND a dragon... Not a good plan.
@@insertphrasehere15 I feel like that's a classic case of Player vs DM. Like yes, if they're trying to "break the game" then by all means it's within the DM's capacity to hammer them back into line (worth noting dispelling the magic would also put the PC back in their original body wherever it is and whatever condition it's in unless something else has gotten to it first and probably well away from the fight). If it's a cool narrative thing, I'd let it happen once or heavily foreshadow when an enemy is going to try do something to disrupt it. Having an endgame mission where you have to restore your ally back to their ancient gold dragon body and then they fight with you against whatever stole the body back in their true form could be such a fun and memorable moment like the ending of Elder Scrolls Oblivion. The DM is god, they can literally add infinite enemies with dispel magic and counterspell into any fight so the PC can't even cast a cantrip or get any spell to stick. I just don't imagine foiling all the PC plans to be that fun for anyone normally. You can have archenemy fights where the enemy uses everything at their disposal like counterspells and dispel magics but if the players went through that level of setup and planning, I feel like I'd reward them for it by letting them get a few good hits in with it or to blow through a bunch of lesser enemies. If they keep doing it, then we can break out the extra special DM toolkit of all the things like the Brainstealer Dragon looking to upsize or the Greatwyrm who finds the parties actions deeply offensive but it's a cooperative game first so I would prioritise what I think everyone would enjoy in that moment the most. If they want a challenge, have the enemy power up too somehow and they can have a big epic kaiju battle rather than wiping the floor with your BBEG. Perhaps they beat your original BBEG easily and the avatar of the god they worshipped enters the material plane and steps on them as round two begins. Everyone can play the game their own way but I would like to think I'm the kind of person who would see the players using the conjure woodland beings, pixie, polymorph chain to get a bunch of T-rex and rather than the enemy just dispelling it or dropping an antimagic field, have the enemy mirror the action and charge back to see who wins the T-rex fight.
@ As a forever DM, I'd actually allow it, but foreshadow issues by having the Clerics of Mystra start looking for the player who is "breaking the rules", using the forbidden spell, etc. Mystra canonically puts these restrictions in place to limit mortal wizards, it makes sense that she'd send her clerics after rule violators.
@@insertphrasehere15 Fair enough (assuming you're going for a standard forgotten realms setting for your game, otherwise one of the Lords of Dust might be interested in Eberron, Niv-Mizzet on Ravnica or Paladine's followers in Krynn could be tempted to intervene.) I imagine followers of Tiamat or Bahamut probably wouldn't appreciate someone highjacking one of their respective dragons either. That said, if they're prepared for the reasonable consequences of their actions, they can certainly try.
Nah, bad players can only be addressed above the board. Trying to solve player problems in-game is a quick way to become a bad player yourself, PC or DM. That said, better balance benefits everyone. Especially new players, who should not need to know about a bunch of potential pitfalls before playing.
To a point. Good-looking but inferior "trap" choices, whether deliberate or accidental, are another problem, as is having extremely unequal standards for performance for different types of classes (yes, I mean martial vs caster).
tbf sometimes there are moments where as a player you go 'well if i dont do X (broken thing) then im actively limiting myself' which is not usually an issue but when its a dangerous situation and you could die, it then becomes an issue
Not really, no. Some amount of optimization, whether it's picking the spell that has extra utility, or the right cleric domain to do the thing you find cool and fun, is part of the game. Balance means that normal optimization falls within an acceptable power range where the player who optimizes poorly and the one who optimizes well are still both relevant in the same encounters. Balance means that you don't have to get mad at the person who optimizes a little better, or tell the person who optimizes a little worse to suck it up and be the comedy relief - it isn't supposed to solve bad players, who can do lots of unpleasant things while sticking strictly to both rules and balance - it's supposed to solve good players who have different skill levels at optimization.
There's also the fact that I don't think I've seen anyone cast sunbeam literally ever. Like when bg3 came out and ì saw it in game I thought they made it up for a second moonbeam 💀
I can see Nystul's essentially turning into a cold-war arms race where Evil Aligned creatures have little apprehension of doing this while Good Aligned creatures only do this so that no tyrant can come about and wreck havoc through mutually ensured destruction. Might Arcana/Knowledge Clerics work as police hunting these kinds of Wizards, with some nations requiring Wizards to be registered. This is basically the only way I see this spell working. You'd have to have so much world building around it to essentially nerf it by adding complications and problems to using it.
As a DM you have to make the world your players exist in “complicated.” The trick is making sure your world doesn’t descend into “GM v Player” because no one is at the table for that.
Honestly it works fine as written. Mystra sends her clerics after you for breaking the rules, and next minute you find someone casts Dispel Magic on you or your enslaved pet and you find yourself fighting whatever beastie it was at a very inopportune time.
Personally, I would allow the spell and just run it in the way that makes the most sense based on the name and school of magic: it doesn't actually change anything about the target, it just causes magical effects to give wrong information about the target. So if you mask a dragon to appear humanoid, it doesn't make Hold Person work on them, but it does make it so Locate Creature can't find the dragon unless you ask it for the nearest humanoid. I realize there's probably some edge cases, but overall I think this interpretation is reasonable, although as you say, it is clearly not RAW in 2024, and probably not even in 2014. On an unrelated note: I play in a campaign where the entire party is imbued with a very unusual magical effect, and my DM ruled based on the ambiguous language in the 2014 spell text that I could use the False Aura effect to hide this effect's magic aura on the party to avoid attracting attention. So I'm kind of annoyed that the 2024 spell text specifically limits False Aura to objects only, because it has a use (admittedly a rather niche one) for creatures as well.
I am that unicorn player. I played an illusionist who was hiding the fact he was a less than favored subrace. He has himself under a permanent palette swap spell and used nystul to detect as the palette swap as well. Also he disguised all of his magic items so nobody knew how much magic he was packing at any given time.
I had used Nystul's Aura as a DM, but hadn't even considered this aspect. I used the effect on objects, a thief stole a powerful magic item and left a fake that had the Aura of the original. And an assassin with magic weapons used it to get his tools past a security team with Detect Magic. It was fun, these uses sound fun in a different way.
@hweidigiv I'm ok with that. There's always Hold Monster and Charm Monster, as well as the fact that I've played a hexblood and a satyr, both fey that are not humanoids. Same is true for autognome as a construct, or plasmoid as an ooze. That's just as cool as playing a mission suddenly requiring swimming and the Triton or Sea Elf or Water Genasi players finally get a chance to use their special skills.
@@hweidigiv Honestly, spending a month per character on making a handful of (fairly nasty) spells not work on you seems like a fair trade. It's good, but it's not actually game breaking.
@@diamondmx3076 Even the permanent version of Magic Aura can be removed via a simple Dispel Magic spell. No save either. 30 Days of casting work gone on that character. Not that big a deal though since the spell has no costly components.
Great Video! I've been using a homebree for my campaign's villain. A cleric of Vecna infiltrated a cult of Orkus to use its secrets, using magic jar to constantly change bodies as convenient (multiple identities, lots of deception... a true mastermind in search of arcane secrets). One of his plans is to have a monstrous body that allows him to destroy kingdoms and everything else. The part about catching other creatures was outside the rules, but now I can do it within the rules 😃 I think the next arc will be to stop him from catching a dragon 🤌🏼🤌🏼🤌🏼
Okay, I actually have made full use of everything in this video in my current campaign. Im currently a lvl 18 college of eloquence/lvl 2 fighter with one epic boon. My party and I managed to planar bind a pit fiend using a 9th level slot. I then used true polymorph's full duration to turn it into an ancient brass dragon and Nystul's Magic Aura to change its creature type to humanoid and possess his body. My DM did in fact allow this. Happy birthday!!!
Happy birthday Kobold. It's funny I only noticed this spell recently when I was researching illusion spells specifically and Im certain I didn't think of whatever you're about to tell me
I think there is a pretty simple fix to this. To me, the old version of the spell seemed intended to confuse all the types of detection magic. So that's how I'll run it if it comes up in my game: nystuling a humanoid into a fey will make detect evil and good, divine sense or creature type-based triggers for glyph of warding treat them as a fey, but they are still physically a humanoid, so hold person and dominate person still affect them. And if someone still wants to planar bind/magic jar something, they still can using true polymorph which feels like much more appropriately strong magic to do something like this.
Here's a fun interaction: could you break planar binding with Nystul's? Bad guy has a celestial guarding his keep through planar binding. Could you free the celestial by changing its creature type to something not affected by planar binding?
Everyone is trying to break the game with this spell meanwhile I'm putting together a combo with Nystul's to turn into my dream anthro furr- [the guards catch me and drag me away before I can finish the sentence]
When he said "End of video", I was like "Yeah that was a good video, I love this channel and its lovable characters!" before we were told he didn't do the thing xD
Happy birthday! Day late on the birthday wishes, but better late than never. This video reminds me of the time I got pissed off at Silvery Barbs and made it a 2nd level spell in my game, lol
So I’ve never heard of this spell, so you can imagine my surprise as the video progressed. And its a shame cuz there’s REALLY COOL uses like you said. Like maybe you trick a corrupt king by promising to turn them into a dragon in exchange for the McGuffin, and then use this spell to fulfill your end of the bargin. Though the change to Suggestion seems to be the bigger problem. Anyways happy birthday!
The problem with old suggestion is it was always broken, because it was very much up to GM interpretation how it worked. It could be ridiculously powerful (as the 2024 version is), or it could be a waste of a spell slot (as some DMs will rule it).
I was one of those few players who used nystal's aura for normal reasons. My character was a tiefling wizard and I used magic aura on myself for a month to permanently appear to spells as a non-magical human. It was part of my end game set up where the DM and I were planning to have my character go through the Ceremony of Endless Night and become a lich. I am the final villian of the campaign.
Everyone in my home is an ooze! Honestly, this is the stupidest spell ever written in 5e. It breaks so many things and mechanics and can easily lead you to rabbit holes so large of the rules it's a big meme how dumb it is. And now the mechanics even allow stuff to be stronger due to changes! The False Aura part is extremely situational and useless... and in fact, that part is the one from the original version of this spell in 3e (simply named Magic Aura... I guess 10 years ago Nystul swooped in and added the broken part). If the False Aura effect was the only remaining one, this would be as strong as a situational 1st level spell. With the Mask effect? Probably high level of 7th level spell if we're generous about its power.
My only use I've used Nystul's for is to help a new player who joined as a goblin after we've had recurring enemies involving nilbogs. Outside of that I've agreed not to do anything with the spell. P.S. Happy birthday!
I got a good chuckle out of your disclaimer because i just got out of a meeting with my DM about changes i made to my character and the idea i have for what she wants to do
I want to allow the more benign magic aura shenanigans, so my pre-emptive house rule is: you can't willingly fail a save against charm, fear, or domination type effects (including suggestion) and these effects count as an attack/damage for the purposes of ending similar effects. And magic aura can be ended at will by the target creature or caster for target object.
Nystul’s magic aura was in the 3.5 player’s handbook, as a first level spell! The difference being that it only affected one touched OBJECT, weighing up to 5 pounds per level, and lasted one day/level. Simpler, cleaner, no mess.
Happy birthday, Kobold! Isn't modern science wonderful? We now have grain-free granola 🤭 Here, my birthday present for you is that I promise to never use Nystal's Magic Aura without talking to the DM about it first
It feels like one of those things where different people probably wrote each of these spells and the interaction between them was never considered so explicitly. Or if it was, it was probably assumed that most DMs wouldn't be okay with one of the players creating an army of mind slaves Things like the original usecase of making yourself read as a dragon or an Ooze or something make sense and is probably a lot more in-line with what they were thinking and was the end of the thought process. Hell I might see if I can do that in a future game cause it actually sounds interesting. But yeah the combination with suggestion and then planar binding is uh... yikes tho ngl the idea of using this and soul jar as a means to defeat a normally unkillable boss or to fulfill some story thing like you mentioned like the whole "There must always be a lich king" thing is also kinda cool and I could see that being like the backstory for a BBEG who is secretly trying to guide the heroes to do the same thing to them because they want to end their time or something
You can False Aura Magic Weapons, making it appear nonmagical. And then cast Magic Weapon Spell on it. Stacking +1/2/3 on an already +1/2/3 OR other magical weapon.
This wouldn't work. "You touch a nonmagical weapon." & "make a magic item appear nonmagical" You are only changing the appearance of it to magic that detects magical effects "You change the way the target appears to spells and magical effects that detect magical auras, such as Detect Magic." This is NOT the same thing as making it a non-magical item which means it is an invalid target for magic weapon. So I would rule this as the weapon appears to be a valid target but when the spell is cast it fizzles and does nothing but gives the impression of success.
@Xayentist "Spells" and "Magical effects that detect magical auras" are two different criteria. A parallel is Animate Dead. A "pile of bones" or "corpse of a small or medium humanoid." Not a "pile of bones or corpse" of a small or medium humanoid.
@@xiongray Although it's ambiguous, in this case it's pretty clear that the phrase means "(spells and magical effects) that detect magical auras". If for some reason they wanted to include *all* spells, but only (non-spell) magical effects that detect magical auras, it would have made that clear.
I feel like something 'a creature that is under mind control cannot choose to fail saving throws' or 'a creature cannot be commanded to fail saving throws' or other rule to this effect fixes the main issue which seems to be once you have it it's permanent.
I would argue that a strange wizard saying "hold still and let me cast a spell on you." could very reasonably be perceived as something that "would obviously deal damage to the target"
Happy birth! When I was looking at spells for a funny little rat-loving wizard character I was kind of doubting if I really wanted Nystul's cuz it took away my chance to get a cooler spell But the more I thought about it, the more I realized...
I previously used Nystul's (as intended) to hide the fact that my character was literally a necklace. Basically, My DM allowed each of us a rare item... I asked if I could have a Vrare consumable. I took a spell Scroll of Mgic Jar and said that my character had died in a magical accident years ago, but had cast Magic Jar, and have been body hopping ever since. I never tried the whole thing trying to possess non-humanoids; it's plenty broken already. Basically the actual build was a Divination Wizard with buffed mental stats and all the physical stats dumped completely (P stats are irrelevant when in magic jar). A dispel magic would kill me, so I obfuscated with Nystul's Magic Aura and lied to everyone about who I was, and my spell book was etched onto gems on the necklace that served as the gem for the magic jar. We made our way into Avernus and I stole Arkhan, the Cruel's stat block, then proceeded to go completely mad due to the Hand of Vecna and turned on my party for a while. Got it cut off and was mostly fine afterwards (death ward to avoid the untimely demise).
Funny enough , I agree with the fact it's problematic used in its most optimal way, just like you explain, but I also happen to believe it's the MOST D&D type BS for 5e to have. It's a weird thing right? Like this combo feels practically retro when compared the rest of 5e. It feels like it's right out of 2e. But let me tell ya Mr. Kobold, I can't agree MORE with the sentiment for the random WotC Andys somehow arguing against the position. Makes no sense! Still, responsible optimization is the way. Be well, and Mr. Gator too!
Other cursed uses: 1. Turn your animal companions and familiars into humanoids, then use reincarnation on them if they die. Ditto for Simulacra of them. 2. Use the magic transformation to get too much money: Create magic auras that look real on items and sell them off for absurd profits to unsuspecting people. Like, a standard dagger you bought at a shop suddenly is a +1 dagger. Now find a sucker to buy it for 1000gp at level 1/2. Then leave town. Definitely leave town. (This was the old 3.5e way to abuse it before the mask effect was a thing). It works and appears genuine for the whole duration too (again, a straight buff from 3.5 where the identify spell could tell it was fake) even to other magical effects. It's kinda crazy they buffed it. Like you can spend 30 days creating a perfect counterfeit +5 longsword at level 1 and try to sell it for some crazy sum right at the start. Obviously a DM can say no to that level of abuse, but other things are less easy. Prestidigitation a gold coin into a masterwork looking gold ring, then make it look like a "Ring of Evasion." It's just such a low hanging fruit exploit that a GM might not realize how broken it is if the player starts small (say a fake potion or something) then steps it up until they've sold 5000gp of fake goods before level 3 and just completely screwed the progression curve.
My character in this game i was playing had a lich-heavy storyline. My macguffin when combined with my weapon allowed some level of soul manipulation and magic. So i used Nystul (False Aura) to hide its capability with 30 day permanence.
Part of me wants to do this as part of a plot to actually become an ooze using magic jar. My party will now be joined by a morally neutral, sentient ooze that is actively trying to figure out how to cast while in ooze form.
The old oathbreaker paladin made it so that all nearby fiends and undead Got a damage boost so you could boost all of your other martials it isnt broken but it is teamwork
Happy Birthday, Kobold. Since I've watched so many of your videos already, you get a like, a sub, and a comment today. :3 Also, my illusionist is currently using this spell to mask her ringmaster's cane as her magic implement when it's actually her Duplicitous Manuscript. So unless she explicitly tells people she's a wizard they can't tell she has a spell book, there's no way to get past DM's masking as far as I know. For further confusion, she wears a brooch that she uses like a focus when casting, so whether she's a sorceress, warlock, bard, artificer, who effing knows? She doesn't have a book, other than this trashy romance novel, so she can't be a wizard, right? I wouldn't use Nystul to make her something other than a humanoid except temporarily if she knows someone likes using enchantment magic, and I'd confirm with the DM whether or not she can dismiss a casting of it on her turn or if she needs to actually use dispel magic to cancel it. She'd test this out before hand. We've encountered pirates where one of the captains likes to charm and enslave people without magic, and uses a lot of enchantment spells like Hold Person. So Casey might pop this on people who need the protection of forcing that spellcaster to use the "monster" version of the spell, but she's aware that Planar Binding can then work on them. If she figures out the rules lawyering with Ooze type, she might be able to use that loophole. She's already met a humanoid ooze, I think it was an Oblex but they actually looked ooze-like. She might consider that option if she's prompted by some other encounters. Gotta say though, I really wish summons didn't require concentration, and instead just limited themselves to one casting per type or even one "summon" spell per wizard, because I can't have my fey out from my innate Summon Fey while also holding a Hypnotic Pattern to immobilize half the enemy legion. I have to pick :(
Suggestion also says "must not involve anything that would obviously deal damage to the target or it's allies." I feel like "let us cast whatever spell we want on you" is pretty obvious code for "we'd like to fuck up your day."
A good litmus test for Suggestion is the Jedi Mind Trick. You can tell the guard "just let us pass with my pet owlbear, he's tame." You can't tell the guard "hey lie down and let my pet owlbear use you as a chew toy for a bit. Don't worry, he's tame."
Yeah. It used to be 'anything that would obviously harm the target'. But now it's damage. Nystul's Magic Aura doesn't deal *damage*. This is probably a flaw.
@@basedeltazero714 Yep, this is one change in 2024 I'm conflicted on. Obviously they were trying to improve the clarity of the spell; it allows one to make the yes/no decision in the shortest amount of time, but it ends up taking away the DM's right to say "No, that Suggestion may not lead to immediate damage, but there's no way you're convincing this guy to do something that could clearly lead to bodily or mental harm." For Nystul's Aura (or any similar tricky spell), I'd require some very solid role-play setup and a very high-DC Deception check to justify it.
I suppose one thing that can be considered before you can get planar binding and majoc jar step in play is whether a creature subjected to a spell effect knows its effect. If you suggest to a creature to fail the save, he could tell everyone they know that you cast nystul aura on it. Of course, you could always modify their memory... personally the most broken spell in 2024 seems to be suggestion. Opens up more broken stuff
The way I handle this is that suggestion and any other control spell lets you control their body but their mind is tapped inside and horrified, and and that's what determines the 3 mental saves. You could still force someone to fail a STR or DEX save and CON would be up in the air.
I feel like a way to use Nystul's Magic Aura with Planar Binding in a not problematic way is to combine it with your own summons, like Summon Draconic Spirit/Summon Dragon. Which is probably the strongest one a Wizard can combo with as it'd give them resistances as long as the Dragon exists. It's also a very gold heavy way for a Necromancer with Summon Undead to get a strong army of sturdy undeads. I still think this is very powerful, but to me still feels within the realm of what a player should be able to do with Planar Binding and doesn't feel icky like enslaving various NPCs. You might be able to reduce the gold cost by making an Enspelled Staff/Armor, but that's again only if the DM allows it. (You'd also probably need to use Glyph of Warding for the summon, because casting Planar Binding would take your concentration since it takes more then 1 action to cast it. Again very gold heavy... which might not matter to some who's DMs actually give out gold.) There are still of course problem parts to this since the number of minions might get out of hand and drag down combat, doesn't mean you can't have a Dragon or Undead Army, just means aside from probably 1-2 of your minions they should be elsewhere, possibly storming a castle while your party sneaks through the back, or protecting your Bastion free of charge. Point is, don't let an army drag down combat if you or one of your players want to do this. It's a game everyone wants to play, not your army simulator. All this being said, I really do like the False Aura part of Magic Aura as it can camouflage your gear to seem mundane, or the opposite by making a random stick seem like it has great and mighty evocation magic inside of it, or throwing a toy ball to a enemy Wizard with Detect Magic up to make them think it's a bomb. Give an enemy a powerful artifact... that's really just a creepy statue the rogue sticky fingered while your party pockets the actual artifact also with Magic Aura on it. False Aura is fun, Mask is broken.
All they had to do is add a line stating that the spell does not actually change the type of creature and that spells specifically targeting a creature type like planar binding will fail if you use it on a humanoid masked to be a demon. Then the added effect of bypassing abjuration spells would be satisfied without fully breaking the spell.
2:36 happy birthday, I’m glad my players can’t read and don’t know what any of the spells do and don’t pick spells if they don’t see a big dice notation (8d6)
I did this with CoS, but realized that the vampire could change those around them, innocents, as undead. So npcs that were normal humanoids would detect as undead
The only use for enemies I could think of was to make them undead or constructs to stop healing effects, but that would be very impractical... this is so much more creative
So that means you can also make a simulacrum of a binded creature? When a creature is already binded can you change it's type to humanoid? Even if not you can first make a simulacrum and then bind the original creature. As long as one party member repeatedly casts suggestion on a creature another party member can make a simulacrum while it's humanoid, than change it's type and bind it. If you have access to Wish it's even easier. No need for suggestion, you can enslave basically anything, you don't need it to understand you. You can either instantly make a copy of any creature in the game without a save or try to instantly bind it but with a save. Wish + simulacrum always was a problematic combo but with aura change you can instacopy anything you can touch (a cute obedient Tarrasque)! Even without a Wish that's really cool! You not just can enslave a freaking ancient dragon you can have two of them! Imagine having two copies of a unique legendary monster! I kinda want to have two Zariels behind me as bodyguards.
Theoretically as Planar Binding requires Celestial, Fiend, or Fey, if Nystul's Magic Aura ever wore off or was dispelled, Planar Binding would no longer be valid to the target's type, and so should automatically stop as well. Although as it lasts 24 Hours you basically just have to recast it each day for 30 days whilst also keeping the target under Planar Binding.
This combo sounds great for a villain NPC. Someone is going around and enslaving the most powerful monsters they can to use for some nefarious means which the players will end up fighting. The NPC can end up being a lich or something. Edit: Happy Birthday!
As fun as it would be to "be a dragon" if you suggest + magic jar a dragon; mechanically speaking, you aren't a dragon. The third paragraph limits you only to HP, HPD, STR, DEX, CON, Speed and Senses; otherwise, you're still just a wizard/sorcerer/whatever with high stats, wings and HP; you don't have claw attacks or breath weapons or anything of the sort.
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Happy birthday.
The more enchantments get broken, the more I think the necromanceres were kinda right.
i like the granola
9 day old comment on a 7 hour video, Pack Tactics is magician
I think I found a minor issue that blocks the Magic Jar use case. The casting time if Magic Jar is 1 minute. Spells with casting times longer than 1 action require your concentration every turn to cast them, breaking concentration on Suggestion. So you'll need a friend/ accomplice to help you pull this off.
Reminder that the Oblex exists, so a seemingly ordinary person whose magical signature is that of an ooze reeeeeally seems like an Oblex to a knowledgeable monster hunter.
That is a hilarious point.
Inversely, someone can cast this on an Oblex to mask it as an actual humanoid.
Now I have a new fear.
@@reiyoka And everyone wonders why I play my wizard as if everyone and everything is lying to me. I get weird looks but this was something that I looked at in the past. I had a wizard that used magic aura to suppress all magical indicators from his stuff.
I also placed a very fun security system in my Tower and changed it to illusion. Every time we went there I spoke the safe passage word and when asked I told everyone that it was a Magic Mouth glyph to announce an unexpected visitor in reality there were a chain of glyphs that among other things eventually included Power word kill.
Yes
There is no spell or other magical effect that can detect the creature type of an ooze. 2014 Ranger's Favored Enemy is not considered magical, and would therefore not be affected by NMA.
This spell, like Planar Binding, is one of those spells where the literal intended use case of the spell is clearly bad for the game and not something that should have ever been allowed. The purpose of Planar Binding is to bind some kind of entity into your service which can easily become wildly unbalanced even without using summons because it is inevitable you encounter some powerful fey or fiend in combat. Similarly, Nystul's is now explicitly designed to be able to allow the fundamental rules of the games to be warped, it is almost like achieving Arbitrary Code Execution (ACE) in D&D. I always find it grimly hilarious when people complain about "abusing" these spells when the problematic function of the spell is the intended use case.
I feel like these spells should be in the books so that npcs can use them for story purposes, but then not appear on any class's spell list.
The spell school, flavour text, and original wording imply that the intended use case is to avoid detection from like dangerous magical glyphs or detect evil & good, not a means of making almost anything a legal target for almost anything.
Of course, as written nystul's is still problematic
@@aedwa021 Put them in the DMG with clear warnings that they break fundamental assumptions about how the game is played and are inappropriate for most games. It's fine for them to be on class spell lists as long as the game sets the expectation that these are only available if the DM allows it, much like the Death Cleric and Oathbreaker Paladin in 1st edition 5e.
What if the game .... wasn't designed to be balanced
Finally, i can make my PC in all ways but physical, a kobold... in a trench coat!
That song is a banger
Actually magic jar would let you do that also you can use Simulacrum and dominate person to make it 3 kobolds in the coat.
[advantage]
So perfect JKkk
"I am under DNA with WOTC [...]" (Text on screen at 9:44) - I know Kobold probably meant "NDA" but the idea of WotC getting sinister with "23 and me", while discussing this particular spell is funny.
I thought it was in reference to that one joke.
"What does DNA stand for? National Dyslexic Association."
@@WarDragonOfTheLight Ok, this one was funny
The correct way to use this spell is to turn random city animals into undead or infernals and watch as the Paladins of the city freak out about.
10/10 comment
I could see a necromancer or wizard bbeg using that to absolutely troll them.
This sounds like Slavery with extra steps, in fact it would make a great campaign. Party lands on a island or kingdom where the citizen are enslaved by a evil lich king.
That used Nytsul's aura and planar binding on them.
PackTactics literally said as much in the video.
I absolutely love this spell. Cursed or not, it is PEAK meme.
Edit: Happy birthday, Kobold! Appreciations for the video, especially.
I actually love the non-broken uses of this spell! Make your ring of protection detect as nothing. Change your alignment to neutral. Make your mundane sword look magic, make your magic sword look mundane!
So many fun little things!
Found a Dwarven Thrower but your barbarian isn't a dwarf? Holy Avenger but no paladin? Heck, even an intelligent weapon can be fooled, as long as you avoid being too egregious w
@@LaMirah HUGE. Love those uses what the heck!
y'know a fight between 2 really powerful wizards in 5e would be so extremely cursed, there's no energy beam slinging and barrier shields like you'd see anywhere else, just nystul, magic jar and prestidigitation tech lmao
that has always been the case. fireballs and lightning bolts are flashy and good against large numbers of fodder; but the flashy stuff is usually not very good at high levels. that's when you get into contingencies, counterspells, and one-hit incapacitations.
@@j.asmrgaming1228 i know, i'm not new to optimization or tech, the comment just happens to be on-topic to the video when it wasn't in any past ones
@octolyn5529 and I agree with you, my intent was not to say you were wrong, but continue your thoughts.
@ yeah that's fair
My friends and I have a term for abusing shenanigans in 5e. Mayonnaise simulacrums. Basically, a level 1 artificer, level 17 wizard, a completely normal and fairly optimal build, loses their mind and takes one more level of Artificer now that they have access to Wish and have decided to ruin everything. They begin wishing for simulacrums and create a demiplane which explodes exponentially with more simulacrums, all of whom replicate magic item to create alchemy jugs. The gods have about 9 hours to stop this before it hits critical mass. After that, each of the approaching-infinity (even 1 hour is 2 ^ 599?) wizards produce 4 gallons of mayonnaise from 2 alchemy jugs. At any point, a tide of infinite mayonnaise simulacrums could wash over any D&D situation like vacuum decay. See also: the Endless Mayo Sea, the Plane of Negative Mayonnaise, the Mayofell, Mayo Celestia, Mayonnaise Binding, and Nystul's Mayonnaise Aura.
If you want to be an evil DM, and/or your players are into this type of "actions have consequences" thing, you could allow the Nystul's Magic Aura + Planer binding combo to let player's build an army... Then as that starts to get boring/difficult to manage have a creature show up that can cast "dispel magic" to end Planner Binding, create an "antimagic field" to suppress Planer Binding, and/or use the Wish spell for a non-spell effect, creating an encounter where some/all of that army of mind slaves are suddenly free from the players' control...
Who would win: a wizard with an army of powerful spellcasters enslaved via NMA+PB, or one beholder?
I super love this. If I didn't ban this combo (which of course I would), I would definitely do this.
Thematically, I like that you can use it to use magic items or access things you otherwise couldn't (it seems like a very DM or story oriented spell where you have things like Mindflayer or undead related items). I feel like if the party can somehow subdue something like an ancient dragon for 30 days and agree on who gets to try take the body, they are free to try (in my games). It could make for a decent endgame mission where the players help an NPC get back to their true form which was stolen from them previously or something.
There's the natural story thread of having a big forbiddance spell which disintegrates any, let's say demon, who enters naturally so all the more intelligent demons mask themselves with Nystul's Magic Aura to enter the forbiddance resulting in the players needing to identify them through other means. My favourite idea with it is having it as the passcode for a mages guild. There's a symbol on the front door which they change every day and if anyone who isn't a plant type on this specific day walks up to, it explodes. Is it entirely overly complicated and a waste of magical abilities compared to a simple codephrase? Yes, which makes it perfect for a mages guild.
Regarding niche interactions, shoutout to turning your entire party undead to get a +5 damage boost with the 2014 oathbreaker's aura of hate. Truly the most munchkin combination until your enemy breaks out their own divine smite.
Yeah... it would be funny for someone to try this... then when they try to use the Possessed Dragon to fight the other BBEG, one of his lackeys hits you with Dispel magic and now you have to fight the BBEG AND a dragon... Not a good plan.
@@insertphrasehere15 I feel like that's a classic case of Player vs DM. Like yes, if they're trying to "break the game" then by all means it's within the DM's capacity to hammer them back into line (worth noting dispelling the magic would also put the PC back in their original body wherever it is and whatever condition it's in unless something else has gotten to it first and probably well away from the fight). If it's a cool narrative thing, I'd let it happen once or heavily foreshadow when an enemy is going to try do something to disrupt it. Having an endgame mission where you have to restore your ally back to their ancient gold dragon body and then they fight with you against whatever stole the body back in their true form could be such a fun and memorable moment like the ending of Elder Scrolls Oblivion.
The DM is god, they can literally add infinite enemies with dispel magic and counterspell into any fight so the PC can't even cast a cantrip or get any spell to stick. I just don't imagine foiling all the PC plans to be that fun for anyone normally. You can have archenemy fights where the enemy uses everything at their disposal like counterspells and dispel magics but if the players went through that level of setup and planning, I feel like I'd reward them for it by letting them get a few good hits in with it or to blow through a bunch of lesser enemies. If they keep doing it, then we can break out the extra special DM toolkit of all the things like the Brainstealer Dragon looking to upsize or the Greatwyrm who finds the parties actions deeply offensive but it's a cooperative game first so I would prioritise what I think everyone would enjoy in that moment the most.
If they want a challenge, have the enemy power up too somehow and they can have a big epic kaiju battle rather than wiping the floor with your BBEG. Perhaps they beat your original BBEG easily and the avatar of the god they worshipped enters the material plane and steps on them as round two begins. Everyone can play the game their own way but I would like to think I'm the kind of person who would see the players using the conjure woodland beings, pixie, polymorph chain to get a bunch of T-rex and rather than the enemy just dispelling it or dropping an antimagic field, have the enemy mirror the action and charge back to see who wins the T-rex fight.
@ As a forever DM, I'd actually allow it, but foreshadow issues by having the Clerics of Mystra start looking for the player who is "breaking the rules", using the forbidden spell, etc.
Mystra canonically puts these restrictions in place to limit mortal wizards, it makes sense that she'd send her clerics after rule violators.
@@insertphrasehere15 Fair enough (assuming you're going for a standard forgotten realms setting for your game, otherwise one of the Lords of Dust might be interested in Eberron, Niv-Mizzet on Ravnica or Paladine's followers in Krynn could be tempted to intervene.) I imagine followers of Tiamat or Bahamut probably wouldn't appreciate someone highjacking one of their respective dragons either. That said, if they're prepared for the reasonable consequences of their actions, they can certainly try.
WotC crafted Nystul's Box and left it to you to open. May Jeremy have mercy on our games.
The focus on balance, I've now realized, is just a focus on battling against bad players.
Yeah there comes a point where perhaps the rules won't help you
Nah, bad players can only be addressed above the board. Trying to solve player problems in-game is a quick way to become a bad player yourself, PC or DM.
That said, better balance benefits everyone. Especially new players, who should not need to know about a bunch of potential pitfalls before playing.
To a point. Good-looking but inferior "trap" choices, whether deliberate or accidental, are another problem, as is having extremely unequal standards for performance for different types of classes (yes, I mean martial vs caster).
tbf sometimes there are moments where as a player you go 'well if i dont do X (broken thing) then im actively limiting myself' which is not usually an issue but when its a dangerous situation and you could die, it then becomes an issue
Not really, no. Some amount of optimization, whether it's picking the spell that has extra utility, or the right cleric domain to do the thing you find cool and fun, is part of the game. Balance means that normal optimization falls within an acceptable power range where the player who optimizes poorly and the one who optimizes well are still both relevant in the same encounters.
Balance means that you don't have to get mad at the person who optimizes a little better, or tell the person who optimizes a little worse to suck it up and be the comedy relief - it isn't supposed to solve bad players, who can do lots of unpleasant things while sticking strictly to both rules and balance - it's supposed to solve good players who have different skill levels at optimization.
Damn, I thought that oozes rolled disadvantage against sunbeam. So I checked, and they certainly did. But not in 2024!
There's also the fact that I don't think I've seen anyone cast sunbeam literally ever. Like when bg3 came out and ì saw it in game I thought they made it up for a second moonbeam 💀
Yay!! Nystul’s Magic Aura at last! I haven’t watched yet, but I am so happy!
I can see Nystul's essentially turning into a cold-war arms race where Evil Aligned creatures have little apprehension of doing this while Good Aligned creatures only do this so that no tyrant can come about and wreck havoc through mutually ensured destruction. Might Arcana/Knowledge Clerics work as police hunting these kinds of Wizards, with some nations requiring Wizards to be registered.
This is basically the only way I see this spell working. You'd have to have so much world building around it to essentially nerf it by adding complications and problems to using it.
As a DM you have to make the world your players exist in “complicated.” The trick is making sure your world doesn’t descend into “GM v Player” because no one is at the table for that.
Honestly it works fine as written. Mystra sends her clerics after you for breaking the rules, and next minute you find someone casts Dispel Magic on you or your enslaved pet and you find yourself fighting whatever beastie it was at a very inopportune time.
@@insertphrasehere15 when the DM is Lawful Evil.
Personally, I would allow the spell and just run it in the way that makes the most sense based on the name and school of magic: it doesn't actually change anything about the target, it just causes magical effects to give wrong information about the target. So if you mask a dragon to appear humanoid, it doesn't make Hold Person work on them, but it does make it so Locate Creature can't find the dragon unless you ask it for the nearest humanoid. I realize there's probably some edge cases, but overall I think this interpretation is reasonable, although as you say, it is clearly not RAW in 2024, and probably not even in 2014.
On an unrelated note: I play in a campaign where the entire party is imbued with a very unusual magical effect, and my DM ruled based on the ambiguous language in the 2014 spell text that I could use the False Aura effect to hide this effect's magic aura on the party to avoid attracting attention. So I'm kind of annoyed that the 2024 spell text specifically limits False Aura to objects only, because it has a use (admittedly a rather niche one) for creatures as well.
I am that unicorn player. I played an illusionist who was hiding the fact he was a less than favored subrace. He has himself under a permanent palette swap spell and used nystul to detect as the palette swap as well.
Also he disguised all of his magic items so nobody knew how much magic he was packing at any given time.
This sounds like an excellent premise for an evil wizard who wants to become a dragon.
A priest hijacked a dragon and rampaged through the upper planes in the _Empyrean Odyssey_ series of FR novels.
I SAW KOBOLD VENT!!!
I had used Nystul's Aura as a DM, but hadn't even considered this aspect. I used the effect on objects, a thief stole a powerful magic item and left a fake that had the Aura of the original. And an assassin with magic weapons used it to get his tools past a security team with Detect Magic. It was fun, these uses sound fun in a different way.
I wouldn't ban the spell, I would just rule that "willing" doesn't apply if you have to coerce the creature first, such as through charm or others.
That doesn't fix the "party is immune to Hold Person" aspect.
@hweidigiv I'm ok with that. There's always Hold Monster and Charm Monster, as well as the fact that I've played a hexblood and a satyr, both fey that are not humanoids. Same is true for autognome as a construct, or plasmoid as an ooze. That's just as cool as playing a mission suddenly requiring swimming and the Triton or Sea Elf or Water Genasi players finally get a chance to use their special skills.
@@hweidigiv Honestly, spending a month per character on making a handful of (fairly nasty) spells not work on you seems like a fair trade. It's good, but it's not actually game breaking.
@@diamondmx3076 Even the permanent version of Magic Aura can be removed via a simple Dispel Magic spell. No save either. 30 Days of casting work gone on that character. Not that big a deal though since the spell has no costly components.
2:36 Your birthday wish is my command... I have liked, now I comment "and subscribe"
I'll just put my comment here and not cause a cluster.
Great Video! I've been using a homebree for my campaign's villain. A cleric of Vecna infiltrated a cult of Orkus to use its secrets, using magic jar to constantly change bodies as convenient (multiple identities, lots of deception... a true mastermind in search of arcane secrets). One of his plans is to have a monstrous body that allows him to destroy kingdoms and everything else. The part about catching other creatures was outside the rules, but now I can do it within the rules 😃 I think the next arc will be to stop him from catching a dragon 🤌🏼🤌🏼🤌🏼
Just to clarify, this NPC is a multiclass carácter.
Okay, I actually have made full use of everything in this video in my current campaign. Im currently a lvl 18 college of eloquence/lvl 2 fighter with one epic boon. My party and I managed to planar bind a pit fiend using a 9th level slot. I then used true polymorph's full duration to turn it into an ancient brass dragon and Nystul's Magic Aura to change its creature type to humanoid and possess his body. My DM did in fact allow this.
Happy birthday!!!
Oh wow. That got dark, soon.
This is also hilariously strong with the necromancy wizard’s capstone if you are up to that level hahaha “everything is now undead…”
Happy birthday Kobold. It's funny I only noticed this spell recently when I was researching illusion spells specifically and Im certain I didn't think of whatever you're about to tell me
I think there is a pretty simple fix to this. To me, the old version of the spell seemed intended to confuse all the types of detection magic. So that's how I'll run it if it comes up in my game: nystuling a humanoid into a fey will make detect evil and good, divine sense or creature type-based triggers for glyph of warding treat them as a fey, but they are still physically a humanoid, so hold person and dominate person still affect them. And if someone still wants to planar bind/magic jar something, they still can using true polymorph which feels like much more appropriately strong magic to do something like this.
Happy Birthday, Kobald and Gator! I'll be sure to like and comment on every video for the year! Subscribing has been ticked for years.
Here's a fun interaction: could you break planar binding with Nystul's? Bad guy has a celestial guarding his keep through planar binding. Could you free the celestial by changing its creature type to something not affected by planar binding?
I think my BBEG might use this...
Counterpoint: that's literally sociopath logic, a creature being mind controlled is in no way willing
Sociopath logic? Sure. D&D 5.24 Rules As Written and Rules As Intended? Also sure.
Everyone is trying to break the game with this spell meanwhile I'm putting together a combo with Nystul's to turn into my dream anthro furr- [the guards catch me and drag me away before I can finish the sentence]
12:30 see, kobold is a good sport. Idk why everyone gives him a hard time
When he said "End of video", I was like "Yeah that was a good video, I love this channel and its lovable characters!" before we were told he didn't do the thing xD
I felt magically compelled to comment on this video, I am unsure why. Happy Birthday!
KOBOLD IS MY (FORMERLY-) SECRET SON!
HAPPY BIRTHDAY, BUDDY!
I'M SO PROUD OF YOU!!!
Happy birthday! Day late on the birthday wishes, but better late than never. This video reminds me of the time I got pissed off at Silvery Barbs and made it a 2nd level spell in my game, lol
So I’ve never heard of this spell, so you can imagine my surprise as the video progressed. And its a shame cuz there’s REALLY COOL uses like you said. Like maybe you trick a corrupt king by promising to turn them into a dragon in exchange for the McGuffin, and then use this spell to fulfill your end of the bargin. Though the change to Suggestion seems to be the bigger problem. Anyways happy birthday!
The problem with old suggestion is it was always broken, because it was very much up to GM interpretation how it worked. It could be ridiculously powerful (as the 2024 version is), or it could be a waste of a spell slot (as some DMs will rule it).
HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!!! LOVE YOU PACK TACTICS
❤
As a DM, I use Nystul's for making certain creatures undiscoverable. Rakshasas and shape changed dragons.
1. Liked
2. Already suscribed
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I, for one, believe the suggestions from our kobold overlord are achievable
I was one of those few players who used nystal's aura for normal reasons. My character was a tiefling wizard and I used magic aura on myself for a month to permanently appear to spells as a non-magical human. It was part of my end game set up where the DM and I were planning to have my character go through the Ceremony of Endless Night and become a lich. I am the final villian of the campaign.
Everyone in my home is an ooze! Honestly, this is the stupidest spell ever written in 5e. It breaks so many things and mechanics and can easily lead you to rabbit holes so large of the rules it's a big meme how dumb it is. And now the mechanics even allow stuff to be stronger due to changes!
The False Aura part is extremely situational and useless... and in fact, that part is the one from the original version of this spell in 3e (simply named Magic Aura... I guess 10 years ago Nystul swooped in and added the broken part). If the False Aura effect was the only remaining one, this would be as strong as a situational 1st level spell. With the Mask effect? Probably high level of 7th level spell if we're generous about its power.
My only use I've used Nystul's for is to help a new player who joined as a goblin after we've had recurring enemies involving nilbogs. Outside of that I've agreed not to do anything with the spell.
P.S. Happy birthday!
I got a good chuckle out of your disclaimer because i just got out of a meeting with my DM about changes i made to my character and the idea i have for what she wants to do
I want to allow the more benign magic aura shenanigans, so my pre-emptive house rule is: you can't willingly fail a save against charm, fear, or domination type effects (including suggestion) and these effects count as an attack/damage for the purposes of ending similar effects. And magic aura can be ended at will by the target creature or caster for target object.
Nystul’s magic aura was in the 3.5 player’s handbook, as a first level spell! The difference being that it only affected one touched OBJECT, weighing up to 5 pounds per level, and lasted one day/level.
Simpler, cleaner, no mess.
Happy birthday, Kobold! Isn't modern science wonderful? We now have grain-free granola 🤭 Here, my birthday present for you is that I promise to never use Nystal's Magic Aura without talking to the DM about it first
It feels like one of those things where different people probably wrote each of these spells and the interaction between them was never considered so explicitly. Or if it was, it was probably assumed that most DMs wouldn't be okay with one of the players creating an army of mind slaves
Things like the original usecase of making yourself read as a dragon or an Ooze or something make sense and is probably a lot more in-line with what they were thinking and was the end of the thought process. Hell I might see if I can do that in a future game cause it actually sounds interesting. But yeah the combination with suggestion and then planar binding is uh... yikes
tho ngl the idea of using this and soul jar as a means to defeat a normally unkillable boss or to fulfill some story thing like you mentioned like the whole "There must always be a lich king" thing is also kinda cool and I could see that being like the backstory for a BBEG who is secretly trying to guide the heroes to do the same thing to them because they want to end their time or something
Here's the thing though, isn't Planar Binding yikes already - and it just seems worse because it will apply to humanoid races now too?
You can False Aura Magic Weapons, making it appear nonmagical. And then cast Magic Weapon Spell on it. Stacking +1/2/3 on an already +1/2/3 OR other magical weapon.
This wouldn't work. "You touch a nonmagical weapon." & "make a magic item appear nonmagical"
You are only changing the appearance of it to magic that detects magical effects "You change the way the target appears to spells and magical effects that detect magical auras, such as Detect Magic." This is NOT the same thing as making it a non-magical item which means it is an invalid target for magic weapon. So I would rule this as the weapon appears to be a valid target but when the spell is cast it fizzles and does nothing but gives the impression of success.
@Xayentist "Spells" and "Magical effects that detect magical auras" are two different criteria.
A parallel is Animate Dead. A "pile of bones" or "corpse of a small or medium humanoid." Not a "pile of bones or corpse" of a small or medium humanoid.
@@xiongray Although it's ambiguous, in this case it's pretty clear that the phrase means "(spells and magical effects) that detect magical auras". If for some reason they wanted to include *all* spells, but only (non-spell) magical effects that detect magical auras, it would have made that clear.
"appear" nonmagical, not "is" nonmagical. Personally, I think that wording alone is enough to keep it balanced.
@@dizzydoom4230 It's kind of the whole point of Nystul's Magic Aura. Treating things as others for the purpose to be targetable by certain Spells.
ngl the fact that it’s “rules as intended” that you can mind control someone into not resisting mind control is wild to me lmao
You said this in another video (love your stuff by the way), but it is typically called a 'Non-Disclosure-Agreement' (NDA) rather than DNA :)
I feel like something 'a creature that is under mind control cannot choose to fail saving throws' or 'a creature cannot be commanded to fail saving throws' or other rule to this effect fixes the main issue which seems to be once you have it it's permanent.
Conglatulations on the 4th anniversary! Lots of loot for you
You can't force someone to be willing. That's not how consent works.
Consent doesn’t matter.
@PackTactics AYO
I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS VIDEO FOR SO LONG
A wish is a wish, and I'm so happy you finnally made this video.❤ So I'm subscribing
6:10, Sunburst does hit oozes at Disadvantage. While very few things hit oozes harder, this does.
I would argue that a strange wizard saying "hold still and let me cast a spell on you." could very reasonably be perceived as something that "would obviously deal damage to the target"
Happy birth!
When I was looking at spells for a funny little rat-loving wizard character I was kind of doubting if I really wanted Nystul's cuz it took away my chance to get a cooler spell
But the more I thought about it, the more I realized...
happy egg escape day!
I previously used Nystul's (as intended) to hide the fact that my character was literally a necklace.
Basically, My DM allowed each of us a rare item... I asked if I could have a Vrare consumable. I took a spell Scroll of Mgic Jar and said that my character had died in a magical accident years ago, but had cast Magic Jar, and have been body hopping ever since. I never tried the whole thing trying to possess non-humanoids; it's plenty broken already.
Basically the actual build was a Divination Wizard with buffed mental stats and all the physical stats dumped completely (P stats are irrelevant when in magic jar).
A dispel magic would kill me, so I obfuscated with Nystul's Magic Aura and lied to everyone about who I was, and my spell book was etched onto gems on the necklace that served as the gem for the magic jar.
We made our way into Avernus and I stole Arkhan, the Cruel's stat block, then proceeded to go completely mad due to the Hand of Vecna and turned on my party for a while. Got it cut off and was mostly fine afterwards (death ward to avoid the untimely demise).
a creature is not willing if you force it via magic, just common sense, you'd have to convnce it talking
Funny enough , I agree with the fact it's problematic used in its most optimal way, just like you explain, but I also happen to believe it's the MOST D&D type BS for 5e to have. It's a weird thing right? Like this combo feels practically retro when compared the rest of 5e. It feels like it's right out of 2e. But let me tell ya Mr. Kobold, I can't agree MORE with the sentiment for the random WotC Andys somehow arguing against the position. Makes no sense! Still, responsible optimization is the way. Be well, and Mr. Gator too!
Other cursed uses:
1. Turn your animal companions and familiars into humanoids, then use reincarnation on them if they die. Ditto for Simulacra of them.
2. Use the magic transformation to get too much money:
Create magic auras that look real on items and sell them off for absurd profits to unsuspecting people. Like, a standard dagger you bought at a shop suddenly is a +1 dagger. Now find a sucker to buy it for 1000gp at level 1/2. Then leave town. Definitely leave town. (This was the old 3.5e way to abuse it before the mask effect was a thing).
It works and appears genuine for the whole duration too (again, a straight buff from 3.5 where the identify spell could tell it was fake) even to other magical effects.
It's kinda crazy they buffed it. Like you can spend 30 days creating a perfect counterfeit +5 longsword at level 1 and try to sell it for some crazy sum right at the start. Obviously a DM can say no to that level of abuse, but other things are less easy.
Prestidigitation a gold coin into a masterwork looking gold ring, then make it look like a "Ring of Evasion." It's just such a low hanging fruit exploit that a GM might not realize how broken it is if the player starts small (say a fake potion or something) then steps it up until they've sold 5000gp of fake goods before level 3 and just completely screwed the progression curve.
My character in this game i was playing had a lich-heavy storyline. My macguffin when combined with my weapon allowed some level of soul manipulation and magic. So i used Nystul (False Aura) to hide its capability with 30 day permanence.
animate object on a sandwich, nystul's aura on the creature, magic jar, now you are a baloney sandwich
Part of me wants to do this as part of a plot to actually become an ooze using magic jar. My party will now be joined by a morally neutral, sentient ooze that is actively trying to figure out how to cast while in ooze form.
Happy birthday you two!
I don't ban this exactly at my table. I just remind the players that if they start getting up to these kinds of shenanigans, so do the enemies.
When a combo's too powerful for Kobold, you know you've hit the good stuff.
And with that comment, the pact is sealed.
Happy channel birthday!
I feel compelled to tell you glad tidings to the anniversary of your arrival on this planet. Happy cereal day as well
The old oathbreaker paladin made it so that all nearby fiends and undead Got a damage boost so you could boost all of your other martials it isnt broken but it is teamwork
Happy Birthday, Kobold. Since I've watched so many of your videos already, you get a like, a sub, and a comment today. :3
Also, my illusionist is currently using this spell to mask her ringmaster's cane as her magic implement when it's actually her Duplicitous Manuscript. So unless she explicitly tells people she's a wizard they can't tell she has a spell book, there's no way to get past DM's masking as far as I know. For further confusion, she wears a brooch that she uses like a focus when casting, so whether she's a sorceress, warlock, bard, artificer, who effing knows? She doesn't have a book, other than this trashy romance novel, so she can't be a wizard, right?
I wouldn't use Nystul to make her something other than a humanoid except temporarily if she knows someone likes using enchantment magic, and I'd confirm with the DM whether or not she can dismiss a casting of it on her turn or if she needs to actually use dispel magic to cancel it. She'd test this out before hand. We've encountered pirates where one of the captains likes to charm and enslave people without magic, and uses a lot of enchantment spells like Hold Person. So Casey might pop this on people who need the protection of forcing that spellcaster to use the "monster" version of the spell, but she's aware that Planar Binding can then work on them. If she figures out the rules lawyering with Ooze type, she might be able to use that loophole. She's already met a humanoid ooze, I think it was an Oblex but they actually looked ooze-like. She might consider that option if she's prompted by some other encounters.
Gotta say though, I really wish summons didn't require concentration, and instead just limited themselves to one casting per type or even one "summon" spell per wizard, because I can't have my fey out from my innate Summon Fey while also holding a Hypnotic Pattern to immobilize half the enemy legion. I have to pick :(
Suggestion also says "must not involve anything that would obviously deal damage to the target or it's allies." I feel like "let us cast whatever spell we want on you" is pretty obvious code for "we'd like to fuck up your day."
A good litmus test for Suggestion is the Jedi Mind Trick. You can tell the guard "just let us pass with my pet owlbear, he's tame." You can't tell the guard "hey lie down and let my pet owlbear use you as a chew toy for a bit. Don't worry, he's tame."
Yeah. It used to be 'anything that would obviously harm the target'. But now it's damage. Nystul's Magic Aura doesn't deal *damage*.
This is probably a flaw.
@@basedeltazero714 Yep, this is one change in 2024 I'm conflicted on. Obviously they were trying to improve the clarity of the spell; it allows one to make the yes/no decision in the shortest amount of time, but it ends up taking away the DM's right to say "No, that Suggestion may not lead to immediate damage, but there's no way you're convincing this guy to do something that could clearly lead to bodily or mental harm." For Nystul's Aura (or any similar tricky spell), I'd require some very solid role-play setup and a very high-DC Deception check to justify it.
I suppose one thing that can be considered before you can get planar binding and majoc jar step in play is whether a creature subjected to a spell effect knows its effect. If you suggest to a creature to fail the save, he could tell everyone they know that you cast nystul aura on it. Of course, you could always modify their memory... personally the most broken spell in 2024 seems to be suggestion. Opens up more broken stuff
The way I handle this is that suggestion and any other control spell lets you control their body but their mind is tapped inside and horrified, and and that's what determines the 3 mental saves. You could still force someone to fail a STR or DEX save and CON would be up in the air.
I feel like a way to use Nystul's Magic Aura with Planar Binding in a not problematic way is to combine it with your own summons, like Summon Draconic Spirit/Summon Dragon. Which is probably the strongest one a Wizard can combo with as it'd give them resistances as long as the Dragon exists. It's also a very gold heavy way for a Necromancer with Summon Undead to get a strong army of sturdy undeads. I still think this is very powerful, but to me still feels within the realm of what a player should be able to do with Planar Binding and doesn't feel icky like enslaving various NPCs. You might be able to reduce the gold cost by making an Enspelled Staff/Armor, but that's again only if the DM allows it. (You'd also probably need to use Glyph of Warding for the summon, because casting Planar Binding would take your concentration since it takes more then 1 action to cast it. Again very gold heavy... which might not matter to some who's DMs actually give out gold.)
There are still of course problem parts to this since the number of minions might get out of hand and drag down combat, doesn't mean you can't have a Dragon or Undead Army, just means aside from probably 1-2 of your minions they should be elsewhere, possibly storming a castle while your party sneaks through the back, or protecting your Bastion free of charge. Point is, don't let an army drag down combat if you or one of your players want to do this. It's a game everyone wants to play, not your army simulator.
All this being said, I really do like the False Aura part of Magic Aura as it can camouflage your gear to seem mundane, or the opposite by making a random stick seem like it has great and mighty evocation magic inside of it, or throwing a toy ball to a enemy Wizard with Detect Magic up to make them think it's a bomb. Give an enemy a powerful artifact... that's really just a creepy statue the rogue sticky fingered while your party pockets the actual artifact also with Magic Aura on it. False Aura is fun, Mask is broken.
Happy birthday Pack Tactics!
Happy Birthday Engagment. Great vid!
All they had to do is add a line stating that the spell does not actually change the type of creature and that spells specifically targeting a creature type like planar binding will fail if you use it on a humanoid masked to be a demon. Then the added effect of bypassing abjuration spells would be satisfied without fully breaking the spell.
Happy Birthday! I hope the numbers on the Dice Project do well for everyone involved! So is Nystul how litches make simulacrum litches?
I love this spell💖 And I love Kobolds much more than tieflings
Happy birthday for RUclips algorithm engagement
2:36 happy birthday, I’m glad my players can’t read and don’t know what any of the spells do and don’t pick spells if they don’t see a big dice notation (8d6)
Been waiting for this one! Woohoo!
🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
HAPPY BIRTHDAY !!!!
Happy Birthday to my favorite Kobolds [creature type masked]
Gotta admit I never thought about using Nystul’s magical aura like that at most I’ve used it for vampires to hide from a paladin’s divine sense.
I did this with CoS, but realized that the vampire could change those around them, innocents, as undead. So npcs that were normal humanoids would detect as undead
Happy birthday Kobold and Gator
The only use for enemies I could think of was to make them undead or constructs to stop healing effects, but that would be very impractical... this is so much more creative
Used this spell so many times to hide items and distract the chaotic druid. Yes, in the 3.5, even sepia snake sigiled "museum" got the treatment.
So that means you can also make a simulacrum of a binded creature? When a creature is already binded can you change it's type to humanoid? Even if not you can first make a simulacrum and then bind the original creature. As long as one party member repeatedly casts suggestion on a creature another party member can make a simulacrum while it's humanoid, than change it's type and bind it. If you have access to Wish it's even easier. No need for suggestion, you can enslave basically anything, you don't need it to understand you. You can either instantly make a copy of any creature in the game without a save or try to instantly bind it but with a save. Wish + simulacrum always was a problematic combo but with aura change you can instacopy anything you can touch (a cute obedient Tarrasque)! Even without a Wish that's really cool! You not just can enslave a freaking ancient dragon you can have two of them! Imagine having two copies of a unique legendary monster! I kinda want to have two Zariels behind me as bodyguards.
Theoretically as Planar Binding requires Celestial, Fiend, or Fey, if Nystul's Magic Aura ever wore off or was dispelled, Planar Binding would no longer be valid to the target's type, and so should automatically stop as well. Although as it lasts 24 Hours you basically just have to recast it each day for 30 days whilst also keeping the target under Planar Binding.
This combo sounds great for a villain NPC. Someone is going around and enslaving the most powerful monsters they can to use for some nefarious means which the players will end up fighting. The NPC can end up being a lich or something.
Edit: Happy Birthday!
What about Wild Shape? I seem to remember that this was something that could happen in 5e.
As fun as it would be to "be a dragon" if you suggest + magic jar a dragon; mechanically speaking, you aren't a dragon. The third paragraph limits you only to HP, HPD, STR, DEX, CON, Speed and Senses; otherwise, you're still just a wizard/sorcerer/whatever with high stats, wings and HP; you don't have claw attacks or breath weapons or anything of the sort.