Big Sopranos vs Big Orchestras
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- Опубликовано: 30 июл 2024
- A similar format to the 'huge moments' series, this time with sopranos (both spinto and dramatic) battling against heavy orchestration, large choruses and their colleagues on stage. Please enjoy this compilation of some of the greatest sopranos of the last century in their greatest moments!
Featured artists:
0:00 Intro
0:21 Kirsten Flagstad
2:59 Gina Cigna
3:46 Zinka Milanov
4:52 Birgit Nilsson
7:12 Eileen Farrell
9:00 Renata Tebaldi
11:32 Maria Callas
I've included some quite rare cuts here, hopefully you are able to discover things that are new to you. I believe the Flagstad Lohengrin excerpts at 1:30 were previously unheard on RUclips.
I also apologise for the limited number of artists featured, it is difficult to fit in everything when there is so many great moments. There is always space for part 2 if there is interest.
*Correction: Tebaldi's La Wally clip is from 1954.
Some details I missed in the video...
In Cigna's Norma trio excerpt, on the high D she is singing against Giovanni Martinelli (G4) and Bruna Castagna (?).
For Callas in the same vein:
- 1950: Kurt Baum (G4) and Giulietta Simionato (G5)
- 1952: Mirto Picchi (G4) and Ebe Stignani (G5)
- 1955: Mario Del Monaco (G4) and Giulietta Simionato (?)
Also, the Callas Rigoletto clip is about 30 cents too high.
Callas is AMAZING!
Callas,,,forever and ever the best of the best
Maria Callas of course.
Phenomenal Callas forever
Callas! ❤
Flagstad and Nilsson never cease to amaze me.
Good day. Since you have Nilsson's Tosca from Stockholm, i have a question. Do you know exact date of this event?
@@omarsomehow69 Hi, the recording I have is from May 4, 1966.
@@JoanSutherlandFan thanks for feedback
@@gr__msk she was phenomenal yes, but speaking just about big voices over big orchestras, there are others equally or even more phenomenal than her here…
Callas!!! ❤❤
Callas Eb6 in Armida at 13:40 against that huge and tempestuous orchestra is just... good lord how can it pierce through it all and still cover all those instruments. And after the whole opera and many forte C6/D6 in the previous acts...She was crazy!!!
Yes, that entire recording is a miracle of bravura singing. Sadly, her audience didn't seem to really appreciate it.
Well, a Rossini orchestra is not what we could call a huge and tempestuous orchestra!
@@Wotan123456789 that orchestra in the finale of Armida really is loud and tempestuous, just listen to it. It sounds like pure chaos and Armagedom
@@Tdvc The orchestration for Armida calls for 40-45 musician orchestra, most of the other pieces call for orchestration for up to 90 musician. Got it?
@@Wotan123456789 Callas has a large voice comparing to typical dramatic coloraturas but visibly smaller than a pure dramatic soprano. Her technique that push 200% of her voice, her lack of rest and bad habits destroyed her voice before it can mature and even grow, perhaps her voice would grow... Her "prime" was really her voice before the bad habits damage take place.
OMG... CALLAS THE SUPREME 😍
Need to say:
FLAGSTAD was MAJESTIC‼️🌹
Both volume and TIMBRE together.
The best.
Love all of them though for different reasons.
1:41 is amazing. Reminded me of Callas’ famous Aida clip. Maybe even bigger because it is a lower note so I assume not as acoustically advantaged.
Tebaldi live is so viscerally exciting
also I would include Callas' Eb6 in aida 1951 mexico! I love your videos! Keep up the great work!
While it definitely would have fit here, Callas' Aida E-flat is already featured in this series:
ruclips.net/video/OGFgtlEWb-w/видео.html
And also in this video which you might enjoy:
ruclips.net/video/Dg5tYUEwPzI/видео.html
Flagstad with or without the high was among the greatest of the century.
Kirsten Flagstad is definitely in a league of her own. Her voice is just unbelievable. I'm always amazed by her voice whenever I listen to her recordings (both live and studio recordings). ❤❤❤❤❤
Eileen Farrell immense voice. Corelli said she deafened him
1:11 Sublime.
The high D from Cigna in Norma is tremendously exciting. She starts out a bit flat, but she gets there eventually. Considering how heavy her voice is, her effort is really gutsy.
Thank you for the video. They are all really great!
I like how this channel highlights both the high notes and the low notes
What a fantastic compilation you created!
My Mom heard Birgitta in Electra at the Wiener StatzOper back in the 1960s and said it was the scariest thing she’s ever heard in her life.
In what way? :)
Nilsson is pure laser beam. A pity, her voice was not well suited for recordings. Christa Ludwig said: it was a mistake to record a Big Big voice like that.
Nilsson agreed and one day, listening her recordings, she said " oh my god where are my high notes? "
Anyway, Brava!
Well, it would have been a bit extreme to not record it at all :)
More Gina Cigna please! What a unique and truly electrifying voice. It’s fitting that as a voice coach her star pupil was the great Ghena Dmitrova.
And Fiorenza Cossotto took coaching from her too I believe.
Amazing video , can't wait for part 2 , it be amazing if Leyla gencer , Virginia Zeani , Celestina Bonesgana were included
Boninsegna
@@ingmarvandesande3235 Sorry for my misspelling
0:53 impresionante y encima en voz media, comiéndose a una orquesta NO muy pequeña.
También ese Bb5 en Elsa es COLOSAL.
0:45
For me all great but LA DIVINA Best notes exactly how it must done.
there is a live recording on youtube, capted from the public in Marseille (1966), where the belgian soprano Geri Brunin obliterate the orchestra and the chorus at the end of the miserere of Trovatore
tebaldi's coloratura and eflats in Traviata are un heard of
❤❤❤🎉🎉🎉😊😊😊
I think that ‘51 C in ‘Gött’ from Flagstad is suspect. She never held it that long when the note was secure for her. And most tellingly, her acuti were sung ‘con voce bianca’, and this C has pronounced ‘vibrato’.
You should have given us one of Tebaldi’s C’s at ‘Io quella l’ama’ , which occasionally brought the performance to a halt.
Great video!
Thank you for your comment!
I see your points but I recall in the album liner notes from where this Gött recording is taken Keith Hardwick explicitly says that Flagstad sang this C. She was, however, unable to replicate it in the next recording session, so they decided to release this ‘unofficial’ version instead with a tired-sounding Svanholm.
The "lama" note comes when the orchestra in full silence. However, there plenty tapes to choose. +10 tape certainly.
Zinka Milanov !!!
Extraordinary. Cigna must have been amazing in live performances. Flagstad, Farrell and Tebaldi all glorious. What has happened to all the big dramatic voices?
I agree, imagine experiencing that top D live! I regret not including more Cigna clips, but there aren't very many recordings of her that haven't already been showcased elsewhere.
Totally dissapear as a class of the voice
Many dramatic sopranos nowadays are classified as mezzo and thus not trained to sing soprano
Many incompetent teachers hear a rather big voice and say "yep, contralto or mezzo".
It's the same with dramatic tenors. Teachers tell most of them that they are baritones cause for most of them, their high notes don't come as easily as for lyric tenors. And then they are trained with baritone technique, barely focusing on head-dominant voice and thus never discovering their actual tenor voice
Chest voice isn’t taught anymore-only voce ingolata in all ranges of the voice. The foundation of the voice is the chest voice, and you must strengthen those muscles and teach the body to weave that chest voice through the entire range of the body. Without this training, the voice never develops properly, and when they go to sing the heavy repertoire, their voice sounds like it’s cheese on a grater. There’s no core in the sound, everything sounds swallowed, wobbling everywhere, the voice is very airy like a flat tire leaking, and then they have to retire from nodes.
Renata Tebaldi had such an amazing Spinto instrument
but later she'd change teacher and forced her voice. She sounded full around early 60's
.....yawn
She was completely hit or miss above a Bb
@@rugby8-Philadelphia Por lo menos ella nunca se tambaleo.
@@Pachinanonim Honestly, I can deal with a Wobble, rather than 1/4 tone (or more) flat.
😜😜😜
@@rugby8-Philadelphia En mi caso no.
Wow! Flagstad's high B @2:36 is like none I've ever heard from her. She sounds like Birgit here. Cigna' s high D at the end of that Norma trio is pure adrenaline and is simply electrifying as it seems so spontaneous. Flagstad, Nilsson and Farrell are true dramatic sopranos with cavernous voices and seemingly effortless outpourings of sound! They never get outside of their columns of sound and the orchestras did not have to "play down" when accompanying them. Some of the others are screaming their lungs out, literally, to be heard. I love your uploads!!!!
Thank you for your valuable comments!
Cigna D is flat
@@ginopietracupa4305 only at the beginning. The rest of the note is dead on pitch.
Other than Nilsson, I never saw any of these divas onstage, so it’s hard to judge from tapes. When you hear most singers in the theater, it often sounds like a different artist. But, contrary to popular opinion, I’ve heard some big dramatic voices that came after this: Jones, Marton, Polaski, Voigt and Stemme (in their best years), Sutherland of course. Funny story about Farrell - my father was auditing her taxes, and he schlepped me along to Staten Island (I was just a kid), where we met her husband and Farrell herself, lovely people. My dad heard someone playing the piano quite well in the next room. Farrell said to us, “you wanna meet Lenny? He’s tinkling away!”
Did you ever see Rysanek?
@@dramaticsoprano5168 Yes, quite a few times in both her soprano and mezzo roles.
@@wotan10950 How would you compare her to Nilsson? Seems Nilsson has the upper end at 7:02.
@@dramaticsoprano5168 Oh no, I was really hoping you wouldn't ask me! I know that Rysanek is a beloved diva, but I seriously disliked her. I was so eager to see her for the first time as Sieglinde, and my heart dropped. She had good high notes, but her middle was hollow. And it seemed that she spent the rest of the time looking for the pitch and a good place to scream for dramatic effect. I hope I haven't offended anyone, but every subsequent performance was the same. She was a good actress though.
@@wotan10950 I am always happy to hear your thoughts, be they positive or negative! From what I can be heard in recordings, I do see your point. Her middle did seem ‘muffled’ and unclear, a considerable disadvantage when you sing largely Wagnerian repertoire. Her Kundry for that reason I was never a fan of. A great big top for sure though, and yes I agree, a very dramatically involved actress which is always great.
Did Flagstad ever sing Lohengrin with Kerstin Thorborg? I am thinking now about what that would sound like.
Nice to see Tebaldi getting some love. A big voice and a real standard for the spinto soprano. She does a lovely italian Lohengrin which makes me wonder why she never sang more Wagner.
Yes, many times. Thorborg was actually the Ortrud in this 1939 Met production of Lohengrin.
@@dramaticsoprano5168 Ok. I will have to find this now. She is for me, the ideal Ortrud and I would love to hear her with Flagstad.
@@babydrane Well please let me know if you do find it! Because I have never found a full tape... Only these Act 1 finale excerpts and the bridal scene (neither of which contain any singing from Thorborg despite being credited on the album listing).
@@dramaticsoprano5168 Oh no!
Tebaldi's Italian Tannhauser is excellent too, with my favorite Heldentenor Hans Beirer.
Varnay's crazy high C (here ruclips.net/video/71PDHPSJ_Nc/видео.html ) is missing)
Whats the part of nilsson and rysanek? 😍
The ending scene of Die Frau ohne Schatten.
By the way compare the A-flat by Flagstad at 2:38 with the A-flats by Callas towards the end of the video and you will notice one of them is not a dramatic soprano by nature.
Yes. Callas is a dramatic coloratura that have more weight and size than typical of this fach, but comparing with dramatic sopranos, the difference is clear
@electricxcircus The same comparison can be made with several singers. Can you imagine Dimitrova or Nilsson or Farrell drowned out on an A-flat? And this isn't the only time Callas is drowned on this particular note (it is a common pairing in soprano-baritone duets in the Italian repertoire).
If you listen carefully, you will notice Callas never had the same weight on these middle-high notes (F#-A) as a true dramatic soprano. Even in her prime, she struggles with heavy orchestras in this range, see Nabucco Act 2 aria. Notes like these are big high notes for dramatic sopranos, but Callas is a little floaty in comparison (also listen to her Kundry and then compare with Flagstad or Varnay as Kundry and you will definitely hear what I mean by floaty).
Y lo peor es que hay algunos fans de Callas con cabeza de basura de atreven a decir que su voz es del mismo tamaño que las de Flagstad.. La voz de Callas MOSQUITO CHILLON a comparación de Flagstad, me gusta Callas pero así no.
@@divinitesdustyx5312 Farrel no creo que sea un buen caso de ser ahogada por algo. Porque su voz no creo que sea más grande que la de Flagstad pero cerca de su tamaño, definitivamente.
First time hearing Flagstad's Elsa. A really good match for her voice. It's rare for a huge voice to also be 'girly' as was Flagstad's in the 30s.
Cigna's high D was pretty good. It sounds like a mix between Sutherland and Callas. First time hearing a secure high D from a pure dramatic soprano. Also surprised by Milanov's very easy C-sharps.
Nilsson great as usual, some pitch issues as she aged but she never lost her top notes.
Pleasantly surprised by Tebaldi, some very good high notes and even some from late in her career too. I am not sure about the pitch on a few of them though.
Farrell seems to be slur between the pitches, not the first time I've heard this from her.
Amazing Callas clips, from the peak of her career and what a peak that was. That Armida was a miracle. I actually like her 55 Norma better than the earlier ones.
I think it would be worth mentioning who Flagstad and Callas are singing against in the Lohengrin and Norma trio excerpts, respectively.
I will update the description tomorrow with those details, thank you for bringing it up.
in what exact moments Tebaldi being uncertain on pitch? Because there barely any.
@@omarsomehow69 The high C in "Libera me" and the high B in the Forza are both flat. The B-flats in the 1970 clip are also pitchy, but it looks like the poster removed the note when she falls off the pitch anyway.
@@divinitesdustyx5312 during Verdian Requiem she is completely in tune with orchestra and chorus. In Forza, also, you can accuse her of a little bit flat start (the weight of the voice is too big), but the entire note remain on pitch. In Fanciulla, also, there 3 B - flats. None of B - flats (the first one is not here) are flat. The last one even sharp.
@@divinitesdustyx5312 : Cigna is flat and Milanov is flat in the high note in 1945 Trovatore trio. Tebaldi is not flat at all in Libera me, nor in Forza
Renata Tebaldi univa volume potenza ad un timbro più unico che raro...
4:23 Milanov C is shouted, there is detriment of the timbre, 4:52 the C is "fisso".Callas B in Nabucco is a scream. About the pitch, no one singer can be judged in "live" recordings because many times the singer does not sound on pitch and is the tape fault and not the singer
Which B? You mean Armida? Nabucco clip has an E-flat/E and and A-flat.
@@dramaticsoprano5168 sorry I typed badly 11:49 E is a scream
@@ginopietracupa4305 No it's not.
@@ginopietracupa4305 you're insane if you think Callas was flat when she wasn't. Nilsson in her later years was flat and scream on her high notes.
@@tonshaad1230 Callas was not flat, but out of tune sharp. At most times. Nilsson was not. And when it comes to screaming, that's more about Callas, not Nilsson at all.
I’ll take Callas over all the others put together. Untouchable!
Las más grande pero voz pequeña y una voz rara.
Callas here dominates the entire orchestra by millions of miles of distance away. This is true vocal size: ruclips.net/video/1ihJZLudHHw/видео.html
the same with this one. She was like the most powerful female opera singer of all time! ruclips.net/video/JshHrzYJYqo/видео.html
It’s obvious whose high notes were the best, save the best for last. The rest she left in the dustbin of “pretty good singers” 😂😂😂😂😂
For those who don't like noise, music starts at around 3:00 😜
Is it Flagstad you take offence to, or Wagner's music?
@@dramaticsoprano5168 it's Wagner music. 😁
Tebaldi is ridiculous anytime she sings above a G……..nothing but screams that are flat.
I think she did pretty good here! I like the La Wally top B, one of my favorites in this aria.
rightly a Callas fan slandering Tebaldi. Look Stephan you can love Maria Callas but Callas's high notes are not models of beauty, and Tebaldi's high notes are models of beauty.
Callas's high notes are strident and light in color and with irregular vibrations
@@dramaticsoprano5168 pretty good here ? Tebaldi's voice was all beautiful, round and same quality from top to bottom always. Just she became famous for that !
@@ginopietracupa4305 yes those Ds Eflats and Es are models indeed: models of nonexistence. and that ending of la mamma morta is the model of vulgarity.
@@shaundudley4576 ignorant