I can tell from the comments 99% of people have no idea what this product really is lol. It uses crosstalk cancellation for ambisonic audio. This is actually not simple and would be really cool to experience. It will get cheaper in the future I'm sure, in the mean time you could always do it on headphones with the Smyth Realiser for $4k once it starts selling to the public
I listened to this Bacche unit at Capital Audio Fest with different speakers and amps and it was pretty incredible. It puts you inside the music. I thought there must be speakers in the walls on each side because the sound was so clear to the left and right of me.some songs sounded just okay but some were amazing. Pretty incredible tech.
You should do a video with Paul at PS AUDIO with his stereo in audio room 2.It would be interesting what Paul says about that technology on his system.
I’d be interested to know how this works with modern pop records where the band isn’t recorded together. It’s all post production. this idea that it’s possible to record a live band and translate that to a pair of speakers resulting in musicians being heard where they sat during the recording, in large part doesn’t actually exist, certainly for 99% of recordings.
The chap doing the presentation did make a point of mentioning that the BACCH-SP doesn't degrade the sound if you are not in the Hot Seat - so it cant it worse if that makes sense - no idea on how much better it would make it. There are still many cues in processed music to be put into a more 3D sound stage
It really depends on how the mastering sound engineer mixes the tracks and if they apply any processing to simulate the location of the instrument or vocalist in the stereo sound stage for those compositions where instruments/vocals are recorded individually. It's entirely possible to have a mixing track play on one channel only or introduce a slight delay and lower amplitude for that track on the other channel, to enhance the illusion of it coming from the one channel and thus having a virtual position in space. Any spatial audio processing takes this concept to enhance or embellish what positional cues are in the source. The great difficulty is not in actually doing it (as per the many previous and existing attempts with varying degrees of success) but in making it audiophile quality. I've heard many '3D sound' processing methods that don't quite achieve a satisfactory level of sound quality. Effective up to a point but not quite good enough to give up high fidelity 2-channel sound.
@@asegal4677 Being a music producer and also used to work in the music biz I can tell you that electronic music would have potential to be absolutely amazing with this 3D stuff since there´s a lot of effects and sound panned out in different angles. It´s almost just the kick drum and bass that are truly center which makes sense to make the music grounded. All the rest has endless possibilities. I would love to hear some electronic music with this tech.
the webpage mentions that "BACCH™ 3D Sound can be experienced without the the BACCH™ 3D Sound Processor". So why doesn't there seam to exist processed examples for us to hear?
Late to the party, but its ironic that I'm too busy marveling at the fact that the camera microphone is so good that it actually sounds like I'm in the room with him. "BACCH™ 3D? Oh its fantastic! Oh, wait, that wasn't the demo? NVM."
That said I fully understand the issue at hand being the fact that once you are in the far field, the early reflections and shallow angles to the listening position from the speakers destroy all the spatial information. The acid test for it would be to compare it to a set of headphones that properly do spatial effects. It should provide the same audio, and not something overly exaggerated. Edit: As far as it being truly 3D, that is very unlikely. The "depth", if any, is probably done via the sound levels with the system handling getting rid of the crosstalk to preserve the spatial effects. To actually produce sound from _behind_ you would require basically solving wave equations and then getting a suitable transfer function that could modify the reflected sound from the speakers to allow that part of the sound field to be reconstructed. My much cheaper solution is to simply sit in front of the speakers and use my PC as the source. It makes a good incognito DSP to tailor the response of the speakers. That said, the spatial effects are _hard_ to reproduce due to how subtle they are. It very much strains the capabilities of the tweeter's wave guides and requires a particular frequency response across the spectrum to work properly.
When i look at the people there in the audition , they look more like its interesting..but there seem to be no PRAT , they are not connected to the music at all.
If the system has good prat from the source (like a Linn lp12) and amps with prat (crimson, Naim) it likely would have that and perhaps even more so with the Bach installed. This is because of the frequency response correction. I’ve used sonar works for example, and it increased my prat due to cuts made in the bass where there were response irregularities. I agree that prat is a huge part of what ties us to the music. I play drums and am especially sensitive to it
shame would have been good to have your opinion. How much is it? he says do away with your Atmos etc but i bet it is heaps cheaper than this -Carver Sonic Holography for the digital age
God he talks too much!! I wish he would just demo it first and let the audience hear and experience it before he says oh you're gonna hear the drum stick here and the trombone there, because if I was in that room my mind would be conditioned to listen to those areas he pointed out rather than me just discovering it myself which then proves his point about the 3D effect of his Bach-SP. IMHO.
My problem with audio files is that they used elevator music to demo thousands of dollars with the equipment. Music that would even sound good on cheap speakers. They should be ashamed of themselves.
I can tell from the comments 99% of people have no idea what this product really is lol. It uses crosstalk cancellation for ambisonic audio. This is actually not simple and would be really cool to experience. It will get cheaper in the future I'm sure, in the mean time you could always do it on headphones with the Smyth Realiser for $4k once it starts selling to the public
I listened to this Bacche unit at Capital Audio Fest with different speakers and amps and it was pretty incredible. It puts you inside the music. I thought there must be speakers in the walls on each side because the sound was so clear to the left and right of me.some songs sounded just okay but some were amazing. Pretty incredible tech.
Very nice presentation and a reminder that audio is actually pure magic😉👌
its based around DSP - maths not magic :)
Pursuit Perfect System yes but we are not listening to the dsp but to music and the magic happens there
very good point :)
You should do a video with Paul at PS AUDIO with his stereo in audio room 2.It would be interesting what Paul says about that technology on his system.
I’d be interested to know how this works with modern pop records where the band isn’t recorded together. It’s all post production. this idea that it’s possible to record a live band and translate that to a pair of speakers resulting in musicians being heard where they sat during the recording, in large part doesn’t actually exist, certainly for 99% of recordings.
The chap doing the presentation did make a point of mentioning that the BACCH-SP doesn't degrade the sound if you are not in the Hot Seat - so it cant it worse if that makes sense - no idea on how much better it would make it.
There are still many cues in processed music to be put into a more 3D sound stage
It really depends on how the mastering sound engineer mixes the tracks and if they apply any processing to simulate the location of the instrument or vocalist in the stereo sound stage for those compositions where instruments/vocals are recorded individually. It's entirely possible to have a mixing track play on one channel only or introduce a slight delay and lower amplitude for that track on the other channel, to enhance the illusion of it coming from the one channel and thus having a virtual position in space.
Any spatial audio processing takes this concept to enhance or embellish what positional cues are in the source. The great difficulty is not in actually doing it (as per the many previous and existing attempts with varying degrees of success) but in making it audiophile quality. I've heard many '3D sound' processing methods that don't quite achieve a satisfactory level of sound quality. Effective up to a point but not quite good enough to give up high fidelity 2-channel sound.
Exactly what I am wondering. What you said, let alone purely electronic music.
@@asegal4677 Being a music producer and also used to work in the music biz I can tell you that electronic music would have potential to be absolutely amazing with this 3D stuff since there´s a lot of effects and sound panned out in different angles. It´s almost just the kick drum and bass that are truly center which makes sense to make the music grounded. All the rest has endless possibilities. I would love to hear some electronic music with this tech.
I suppose this kind of setup has it's application, probably more for replicating live music than studio recordings.
If I own a high end dac, I have to throw it into the trash can? Even if I love my DAC?
the webpage mentions that "BACCH™ 3D Sound can be experienced without the the BACCH™ 3D Sound Processor". So why doesn't there seam to exist processed examples for us to hear?
Late to the party, but its ironic that I'm too busy marveling at the fact that the camera microphone is so good that it actually sounds like I'm in the room with him. "BACCH™ 3D? Oh its fantastic! Oh, wait, that wasn't the demo? NVM."
That said I fully understand the issue at hand being the fact that once you are in the far field, the early reflections and shallow angles to the listening position from the speakers destroy all the spatial information. The acid test for it would be to compare it to a set of headphones that properly do spatial effects. It should provide the same audio, and not something overly exaggerated. Edit: As far as it being truly 3D, that is very unlikely. The "depth", if any, is probably done via the sound levels with the system handling getting rid of the crosstalk to preserve the spatial effects. To actually produce sound from _behind_ you would require basically solving wave equations and then getting a suitable transfer function that could modify the reflected sound from the speakers to allow that part of the sound field to be reconstructed. My much cheaper solution is to simply sit in front of the speakers and use my PC as the source. It makes a good incognito DSP to tailor the response of the speakers. That said, the spatial effects are _hard_ to reproduce due to how subtle they are. It very much strains the capabilities of the tweeter's wave guides and requires a particular frequency response across the spectrum to work properly.
When i look at the people there in the audition , they look more like its interesting..but there seem to be no PRAT , they are not connected to the music at all.
They were into Lawrence Welk that crowd.
If the system has good prat from the source (like a Linn lp12) and amps with prat (crimson, Naim) it likely would have that and perhaps even more so with the Bach installed. This is because of the frequency response correction. I’ve used sonar works for example, and it increased my prat due to cuts made in the bass where there were response irregularities. I agree that prat is a huge part of what ties us to the music. I play drums and am especially sensitive to it
The song titles are not listed in your notes?
Did you sit in the sweet spot ? If so what did you think.
I didn't get a chance to that's why I was asking the people in the front chair what it was like
Ah shame because they looked pretty impressed.
shame would have been good to have your opinion. How much is it? he says do away with your Atmos etc but i bet it is heaps cheaper than this -Carver Sonic Holography for the digital age
@@roymindmybusiness6908 lol its 54k
Is called negative double blind testing?
that's great until you dont listen to your system in a negative double blind situation because at this point it becomes pointless
how to use subs with it?
And what does this cost? Or shouldn’t I ask!
$54k
20k
Where can I get the music used in the demo here?
God he talks too much!! I wish he would just demo it first and let the audience hear and experience it before he says oh you're gonna hear the drum stick here and the trombone there, because if I was in that room my mind would be conditioned to listen to those areas he pointed out rather than me just discovering it myself which then proves his point about the 3D effect of his Bach-SP. IMHO.
this guy discovered quadraphony after 40 yrs of quadraphony and surround sound existence
plus sounds like shit
It sounds like that box is trying to do to many things. My guess is it doesn't do any of them very well.
You'd be wrong
DAFT.
My problem with audio files is that they used elevator music to demo thousands of dollars with the equipment. Music that would even sound good on cheap speakers. They should be ashamed of themselves.