whats interesting is this applies to literally everything else. The biggest thing ive learned as a jazz musician is to listen to other people, it's how you build your ideas.
This process is really fun when it comes to drawing imo. I see a cool picture, try to draw something in that style, realize that the process of drawing like that isn’t enjoyable, and make adjustments until it is.
Honestly, i think since the H. Bomb video people have gotten way too excited about "defending" copyright law. There has been the philosophy of the soon to be billionaire. The type of people who make 100,000 a year, but freak the fuck out whenever taxes are levied against billionaires. That mentality has been challenged a lot in recent years, but one part of it that isn't challenged enough is how this applies to copyright law. Copyright law does not protect artists. At all. It protects corporations and gives them ammo to attack artists. Microsoft could steal RAM on a level that is obvious to anyone who is familiar with it and it would be very unlikely for Andrew to see any compensation for it. And on the opposite end, Nintendo could decide on a whim that RAM is too close to any of their countless game design patents and sue him into oblivion. Creating art of any kind is an inherently iterative process. While it is very possible for some people to go to far in the process, the H. Bomb's video is a good example, but as long as laws exist for this kind of thing they will only be used to empower corporations and hurt artists. And since these laws are not going anywhere then people need to resist the urge to be white knights for copyright law.
I feel like the point of h bomber guy’s vid was to encourage people to do their own research in order to stop supporting ppl who straight up spread misinformation. i think ppl took it the wrong way tho based on what ur saying o(-(
@@superduper5831 I think that there is something to be said about not just ripping stuff 1:1 with no effort put in aside from your voiceover. Illuminaughti (is that how you spell it) was the one that upset me the most, since her content was basically just reading words on a page out loud and presenting it as her own thoughts. James somerton was bad for a few reasons, his plagiarism wasn't really justifiable but he had put in some effort at least. I dislike internet historian for other reasons, but I feel like the man in the hole video actually added a lot to the story by using visuals (though it was cringe AF that he didn't credit the article and just let everyone assume he wrote the story). In general I think if you credit things (in an obvious way and make it clear you are not taking credit) then it's fine to, well, steal. If you create a voiceover and animation for an article, I do think you should be able to release that to be enjoyed by people, even if the original creator didn't want you to do that. What tips it into being actually morally wrong (in my opinion) is passing the work off as your own.
No, copyright law still protects creators (not only art) in a way that is important to have. Without it, corporations would steal stuff that looks good from artists with no remorse at all, and small creators would have no means to protect themselves.
I don't know the exact quote or where I remember it from, but there's an explanation I heard about the concept of "great artists steal" where being able to properly implement so many ideas from different sources and understanding why they work/are enjoyed shows that you are immersed in your craft and are well learned from other successful creatives. RAM shows that it can stand on its own ideas with confidence while also paying respectful homage to its shining predecessor before it, and as someone who has been struggling in finding their legs in understanding the balance of "stealing" and "original idea," I find this video breakdown incredibly inspiring. Hoping for a stellar launch for RAM, y'all deserve the incoming success ahead!
"Oh yeah, I just remembered that channel that does Deltarune sometimes! Here let me go back and watch a few! Wow that Gaster video is still pretty cool, I wonder when Andrew last uploade- Oh... Literally right now."
I feel like “stealing” ideas in a creative manner like this is not only inevitable, but NECESSARY. Like. In order to take the time and effort to create a game, you need to Love games. I mean LOVE them. And if you love something it will influence you, and your creative direction. That’s the beauty of video games as a community. People play games and love games and make games because of and through that love, which makes more people love games and make their own.
I kinda think of how JJBA Part 1 is basically Fist of the North Star except written by a crazy person. Realistically, it's impossible not to "steal" ideas because your creative drive is inherently coloured by the media you consume. I think the mark of a good artist is understanding that, and either evolving the concept or putting your own spin onto it, or both ideally. Edit: I just realized that description of JJBA is, word for word, from a years old Super Eyepatch Wolf video, decided to keep it in because it kinda strengthens my point lol
oh you thought that because it wasn't a stream i wouldn't give you money? you are a fool jokes aside, thank you so much for making a video like this, its easy when you make art to form a paranoia over it, that its less than the sum of its parts, that you are not enough to make it be worth something, fear of being a broken record instead of an artist anxiety over stuff like this doesn't go away by thinking harder about it on your own, it disappears when others can share their experiences and make themselves vulnerable enough to show their fears and confront them as well as arming others with the power of knowledge and stories your work is not just good, its important, you help people, and i wanted you to know that
Damn this videos overall message is exactly how i was feeling with seeing how proudly Toby Fox wears his inspirations on his sleeve that realization that learning and copying from other things isn't shameful, but when done earnestly, is transformative and evolutionary. Great vid, my guy
This is actually scary precise timing. I'm making my own game inspired by Undertale and some other anime and games I like, and I was worried that I wasn't actually creating anything original. The fact that Toby himself basically did the same thing really made me feel better. I really hope I can help by wishlisting your game !
I've desperately wanted to star developing a game for quite some time, but struggled with the feeling of unoriginality. I've done all sorts of little projects but nothing I have ever worked on went anywhere because I would tell myself "this is just a shiddy version of _____"... I have so many fond memories and an obsession over gamefeel, so in my mind, I want to take those feelings and amalgamate them together. Certain little aspects I wanted to basically steal from other games and give my own little twist to. Your process of "stealing" bits from other games, all leading up to a singular original mechanic is incredibly honest and... well, it makes a lot of sense. It's inspirational and realistic. One day, you might just play a new indie game without realizing that you're directly responsible for the developer finding the conviction to unapologetically make it. I think I really needed to hear all of this. Thank you.
So there's an anecdote I couldn't fit into the video... when Toby and I won that award at IGF, we were ushered into this dark backstage area and interviewed by some press, but then on the walk back we passed this shadowy figure just standing backstage. It turned out he was Rami Ismail, co-creator of Nuclear throne. We shook his hand and deliriously explained how big of an inspiration his game was to ours, and he replied with some jedi-ass shit like "one day, someone else will be on that stage thanking you for inspiring them". Cool guy.
I myself have an idea of an interesting twist in a vampire survivors-like genre that can make for a good game, developed full lore all interactions and how the balance is supposed to balance, but my ADHD ass can't sit through a single debugging session
@@DonMerigano Good luck, I get the pain Also have ADHD, was debugging a tile-based heat system for a game mod project endlessly until I just gave up and shifted the mod around things I knew worked and tried to twist them around the mod's new mechanics
I will say, I don't know if I'll ever get the opportunity but I'd like to steal the "style system as currency" idea for a game of a completely different genre at some point. Great video on the creative process Mr Cunningham.
Very few things inspire me to make games or even just play music or whatever I'm interested in as much as your videos. I don't know what it is, but the way you lay out the creative process is so interesting, it's definitely helped by how consistently great your editing has been over the years. The speech on how media can just happen to you really resonated with me as well, another person who has been brainrotted by Undertale from the age of 13 to 22. I really wish Xylem Studiios the very best, and I'll be there when RAM launches.
Your "we came up with the swapping mechanic on our own even though there are other games with a similar premise" reminds me of a story I was writing on-and-off in middle school that I was SO proud of for its ~uniqueness~, and then 5 years later I watched Blade Runner for the first time and realized that was exactly what I was writing. Like, down to calling Replicants...Replicants. Coincidences happen sometimes and it's fucking hilarious.
Hbomb accidentally turning the entire internet into Nintendo lawyers is probably the most annoying thing to happen in the creative space. Also OWL BOY MENTION!!!!!
Well this is exactly what i needed to get myself back into game development. I was worried that what i was planning took too much dna from RAM, but now im motivated to continue and make the worst RAM clone there ever was!
"Take what you like, rip out what you don't, then fill the gaps with yourself" Ah yes, therapy As someone hoping to make games some day: This was unbelievably inspiring Can't wait to steal from RAM
The speech towards the end is really powerful, I found myself rewatching that last quarter of the video (basically the whole section with Heart of the Mountain) multiple times, it's really effective stuff
The final monologue - that about breaking a game's skeleton and fashioning a throne out of the pieces - makes me think of one word only: Sublation! You will overcome these games and create something entirely new, whose ultimate purpose is to be sublated again. This is the development of history, encapsulated in gamedev. Wishlisting RAM immediately!
This is a fucking masterclass in indie game marketing. Really really good video too but like goddamn if the purpose of writing this script was to have a video to publish now so people would wishlist I cannot imagine a better topic or execution especially in how sincere this is. I’m sure this video doesn’t exist solely to generate wishlists but holy shit this is a well crafted conveyer belt to get people who love indie games to respect your game and hit the funny button. Everything down to the goddamn thumbnail.
Andrew "Toby Fox" Cunningham continues to have excellent and well-formatted takes Definitely heavily resonate with the "cursed mirror" aspect of engaging with games as artistic works, I really do like to comprehend what makes them tick and how those pieces could be put together
amazing video! I love that you stressed that it doesn't matter if stealing ideas isn't "creative", since as long as the greater whole is creative and awesome enough, that's what people will remember it for. Genuienly a wonderful message that I feel like more artists need to here!
This video helped me realize how to phrase something I've felt was the case for years. All creative projects -- be it game dev, film, art, or drawing -- is ultimately the same as playing with legos. Your inspirations are the bricks, and the core concept is the base plate. Everything you've ever seen or done is a potential piece to add to the sack. True uniqueness is a myth designed to stop people fron creating. But making something new and original out of disperate parts can create the illusuon of being unique. And, more importantly, it lets you lead with your passions. This video was not breaking down the creative process. This video was just showing us all the lego pieces and how they attached to the base plate. And god damn do I love Lego.
this is true for so many other mediums. i dont think i would have any good ideas for my short films if it werent for the hundreds of movies i watched. use your inspirations as your weapons of attack.
i love this video i love the subtitle “how i learned to stop worrying and love the creative process,” that is never brought up directly but pierces me through the heart we truly stand on the shoulders of giants, and i think the cursed mirror is just more proof of why games are so good, and i couldnt possibly explain the breadth of why. well paced, well spoken, and captivates me in a way that i want to keep watching of my own volition. im bad at being concise but i loved it :]
As someone who works on his own big collection of ideas art thing for almost 10 years, this video really helped me better grasp my use of inspiration in my own work. Thank you.
The music choices, editing, and message are phenomenal. I have worried - as many others have - that my ideas are too derivitive. Your shining a light on the degree that such a thing matters is vitally important and I thank you sincerely for it.
this is actually incredible advice and i feel like you just dispelled hundreds of hours of future suffering that i would have endured due to a fear of unoriginality. the least i can do is wishlist your game. thank you.
Gonna be honest, when I first saw the "swap" mechanic, I first thought MidBoss; not quite the same thing, but it came to mind. It's absolutely neat when people come up with the same idea in different ways, though, and I love keeping up with these devlogs! They're super fun, and inspiring!
There's a RUclipsr named Ludwig who fully admits that all his ideas come from a "yoink and twist" method where he takes a thing or two, and then change them enough to make something interesting, and it's unironically a really solid way to think about getting ideas
The Usage of Epic Battle Fantasy footage in this made me smile. As someone who thinks these games are masively underrated, its nice to see them appear in other places. Really liked the video as well, as someone starting lots of ideas that are directly inpired by other art, I wholeheartdly agree with its message.
absolutely fantastic video as always. It's clear how much you love games, given how many different other fantastic indie games are referenced in the editing
I’ve been very self conscious in my own (very amateur) RPG Maker project about “stealing ideas,” and this has been a massive inspiration for me! Thank you so much
Input is such an important (but sometimes overlooked) part of output. So many incredible artists and the pieces of work they create owe everything to the artists before them, and those artists owe everything to the ones before them as well. Inspiration can be found anywhere; all it takes is an open mind and the willingness to search for it.
Goddamn this video is so great! I wasn't sure what you meant by cursed mirror that latches on to the soul until you explain it and that explanation is amazing! Ever since i watched The Magnus Archives ive started seeing its fragments everywhere, not as references to it, but pieces of the world it used in it's body to construct an expansive whole
i think the importance of stealing is that you also have to steal WHY you wanted to steal it, what makes an idea stand out; and not just stealing because you're out of ideas and want to take something to fill in the hole once you also steal the reason you wanna steal the idea for you stole its essense and since you understand it you can also develop that idea, not just copying an a thing as it is
I said this on your first video and I will say it again, you have an insane talent for selecting the best possible clips for whatever point you are trying to make. Getting jumpscared with totono and yandev's coding at those exact moments was wild. RAM is wishlisted, I'll play the demo this weekend.
Did not expect this video to go so hard, also as someone who's been very interested in doing game dev eventually and is also easily very affected by media I really like this helped on a pretty personal level, all I can say is thank you
I’m gonna be honest, I’m currently coming up with ideas for a game i’d like to make but I have always felt like “if I do ______ then the fans of a game like undertale will get mad that i’m just being unoriginal” and now I realize with some concepts people don’t have a monopoly over them. A soul in a game represented by a heart? it’s not an undertale exclusive. also i just have more confidence that i was molded by the games I like and that causes me to use similar ideas. Thank you for the wisdom mr. cunningham
I was just thinking of my game which is largely inspired by Undertale and was worrying about how to change some core mechanics so perfect timing of this video. Helped me with this process so thank you and hope the best for RAM
This video goes incredibly hard. Especially with all of us other undertalites reaching the point in our lives where we wanna make something, I don’t think I’m the only one who this came out damn near at the perfect time for.
one by one MENTIONED. the fic i read that completely closed undertale for me. i read it and i was just, like, "yeah, i'm done. that's it, i'm Genuinely Completely Satisfied." it was also the first thing i ever read on AO3, which is now where i put, like, most of my creative efforts into??? crazy. hilarious because of course, sans in that fic sounds basically a helluva lot like Ford Pines from Gravityfalls LOL also homestuck visually referenced. we win these
i'm a fanfiction author. it's how i identify myself. i dont know -- im still young, i still have time. im Making those fangame. im draping myself over the original work but im still inviting it into my house for tea. its complicated, for sure -- but with a work as encompassing as Homestuck... you ever think about how kill six billion demons started as an mspfa lol
Great video! It's good that you mention Isaac because not only does it ALSO takes from a bunch of other games, it has influences from all sorts of stuff; Music, Film, Comics, Real Life experiences especially. If anything, some devs could really use hobbies outside of video games for influence and inspiration. Nuclear Throne being brought up is a welcome sight to see in a video like this, it's an underrated game; I was still obsessed with it around the same time I was obsessed with undertale. I even attempted some crossovers between the two back in the day. Also, shoutouts to Spelunky Classic, one of the first, if not THE first rougelike. Isaac was heavily influenced by it, and one of the few rouglikes released between Rouge and Isaac.
Ah you see, I cleverly justified never mentioning Spelunky by specifying "top down" rogelike. Also I just don't really play Spelunky so it's a moot point. Nuclear Throne, though, is actually more influential to RAM than the video implies, I just could figure out where to give it a section.
Hey - I'm SUPER enthusiastic about RAM coming out and I want to do everything I can to help. Unfortunately, I've already got the game Wishlisted on Steam, but it sounds like Wishlisting it during this upcoming event would be very impactful. Should I un-Wishlist and then re-add it during the event, or would that have no tangible impact, to your knowledge? (Will obviously just leave it on my Wishlist if there's no reason to remove and re-add, so feel free to just ignore this if that's the case lol)
"It's about pulling ideas from your influences with the confidence that your ideas are strong enough to subsume them. That you can participate in a work's legacy without being the work, or belonging to it" This, this in its entirety, is what makes this video something amazing. The kinds of people who rag on someone for making "[blank] at home" or "discount [blank]" tend to not understand that it is in fact very hard to create an entirely new piece of media without taking elements from other media, be it intentionally or subconsciously. You HAVE to consume media in order to create media, since doing so, and analyzing what you consume is basically the only way to learn what made it so good. Many things in writing, game design, etc, are all derivatives of the ones before it. A "Good game" is not one torch passed from person to person, imagination is a fire at the center of a stone pit that you have to use to light your own torch, and the design of your torch will deem if the fire consumes it whole, or sits atop it patiently. Don't be afraid to be inspired by other torches.
Okay I’d admit, I’m not to into games that’s just hack and slash for the sake of hack and slash, I need something else to really give me a reason to play. Whether that’s like a really cool music mechanic or storytelling. I was sold when the trailer showed living the enemies lives after you take over them. That’s genius, and makes me actually want to play your game. I’m poor can’t guarantee I’ll buy it, but it makes for defense wish list.
I mean, the textures for the original dust maps of Counter-Strike was insanely inspired by the then screenshots of Team-Fortress 2 which had a different style and name called “brotherhood of arms”. In fact, even Dust 1 borrowed heavily from the map geometry of those screenshots. So even the most iconic stuff came from others.
God I really hope the video doesn’t flop, seeing the views drop on the last 2 devlogs was disheartening. Your videos are THE best I’ve ever watched. Period. They’re just that good. (Also a frequent, to an unhealthy degree, vod watcher. Very comfy streams) Thanks for all the effort you’ve put into your stuff and hoping for the successful release of the game. 30 hours on a demo alone seem promising enough to me!
10:54 Yooo Running Shine mention, I love that guy Great video btw, I have always been an ardent believer in the "bad artists copy, great artists steal" addage, and this is a great breakdown of how being influenced by the media we consume is unavoidable and it's better to not pretend like you can literally reinvent the wheel. I actually avoided watching your RAM devlogs but I got tricked into watching this video because I thought it was "just" a video essay but I probably will be picking up RAM when it releases, the game looks great 👍
that clip with "rearrange the skeleton to your liking" absolutely got me. like this is an incredible video that will stick with me forever but also oh my gosh that's a top notch skeleton joke
Andrew putísimo amo. You went beyond your incredible analisis and writing skills and went on to blindly create your own greatest challenge. I truly hope this game fills you with the pride and determination you deserve. VAMOOOOOOOS
I'm so excited for RAM!! I just got Dome Keeper today because I know that one of RAM's sprite artists did work on that game, and I'll absolutely be throwing this video around and getting a small group of people to wishlist the game on steam
i can't put into words how this video made me realize how important it is to take inspiration from others, take it to heart, and never to shy away from those same inspirations
Good art *always* ends up becoming a dialog between past and future. The best works always seem like they were talking with a guy who wouldn't be born for 20 years, and then the next masterpiece completes the dialog by talking back-- and they complete each other. You can't do this without shamelessly grafting chunks of other works together. As Northrup Frye famously criticized (regarding copyright law and such, written in the 50s but way more relevant today): "All art is equally conventionalized, but we do not ordinarily notice this fact unless we are unaccustomed to the convention. In our day the conventional element in literature is elaborately disguised by a law of copyright pretending that every work of art is an invention distinctive enough to be patented. Hence the conventionalizing forces of modern literature-the way, for instance, that an editor's policy and the expectation of his readers combine to conventionalize what appears in a magazine-often go unrecognized. Demonstrating the debt of A to B is merely scholarship if A is dead, but a proof of moral delinquency if A is alive." Which is all to say: Good video. You're right, and you should say it. It genuinely worries me that people seem willing to go to bat so neurotically for "intellectual property," and I hope it falls out of fashion sooner rather than later.
Love the demo already, first tried it out a while back- and compared to then, it seems super polished now. And despite that, all the footage in this video seems so much more like a fully realized idea- because it is! Planning on buying RAM day one. I feel weirdly proud and mostly excited to see how this incredible idea looks when scaled up to a real release.
There's a pretty big difference between style determining how quickly you gain access to a game's unlockable content and determining how strong you temporarily get within a given roguelike run. I never go for style in Ultrakill, but I still unlocked all the weapons ages ago just by playing. Fitness is reset before each run in RAM, so there's no substitute for actually maximizing the style of each kill.
@@andrew_cunningham logically speaking I knew that was true but I wanted to be an annoying pedantic little shit for the sake of exclusively my own amusement
I think "Nightmare Video" is the best way that Spear of Justice video can be described like everything about that video is just utterly baffling yet presented with the utmost confidence
This video perfectly sums up my thoughts when it comes to the fantasy comic I've spent the last half decade dreaming up. Look at it closely enough, and you will find the tattered, sewn-together hides of everything I've ever loved wrapped around a warm, glowing ball of what makes me. And I'm proud that it's coming out the way it is. The artist's obsession with originality is a dream killer.
As a certifiably brain-rotten individual, this video is either going to convince me to write Undertale fanfiction or force me to become so Delusional (TM) over my fanwork it eventually transcends into something wholly original. Your conclusion to your video essay is evocative and potent, Mr. Cunningham. *Someone is going to **_be_** something because of you.*
I think the soul in deltarune represents plagiarism
The third entity is just copying off the player
I LOVE plagarism
@@HouseHavedbased
@@Cruxin I don't like the third entity.
when you collect all of the shadow crystals you get the true ending (a 4 hour bossfight with hbomberguy)
"Great Artists Steal" - Andrew Cunningham after harvesting my kindeys
Edit: This entire video is unbelievably based
I appreciate editing the comment but still not editing the mistypo
@@Hanandro-C Professionals have standards
@@Hanandro-C typo? his kindneys were stolen.
how very kind of him, ey?
@@Ech_The_Sentiant Which is why he has none, and doesn't care about the typo 👍
"take what you like and rip out what you don't, and then fill the gaps with yourself" i might throw up that line hit me so hard.
I stopped washing the dishes to look over and just STARE. What a beautiful cap to the video.
a line gone wild, gone sexual
Yeah.
whats interesting is this applies to literally everything else. The biggest thing ive learned as a jazz musician is to listen to other people, it's how you build your ideas.
All I gotta say to that is: The Lick
This process is really fun when it comes to drawing imo. I see a cool picture, try to draw something in that style, realize that the process of drawing like that isn’t enjoyable, and make adjustments until it is.
@@32th:(
Black people aren't gonna like that
you put this into words in a way I simply couldn't, outstanding video and great points about the iterations of genres and video games in general
no way its
@@saulgoodmanactionfigureHoly Shit Its's World-Famous UNDERTALE/DELTARUNE Speedrunner Shayy
@@deletesystem32for_morefun hi its me shray
dealt a rune
Honestly, i think since the H. Bomb video people have gotten way too excited about "defending" copyright law. There has been the philosophy of the soon to be billionaire. The type of people who make 100,000 a year, but freak the fuck out whenever taxes are levied against billionaires. That mentality has been challenged a lot in recent years, but one part of it that isn't challenged enough is how this applies to copyright law.
Copyright law does not protect artists. At all. It protects corporations and gives them ammo to attack artists. Microsoft could steal RAM on a level that is obvious to anyone who is familiar with it and it would be very unlikely for Andrew to see any compensation for it. And on the opposite end, Nintendo could decide on a whim that RAM is too close to any of their countless game design patents and sue him into oblivion.
Creating art of any kind is an inherently iterative process. While it is very possible for some people to go to far in the process, the H. Bomb's video is a good example, but as long as laws exist for this kind of thing they will only be used to empower corporations and hurt artists. And since these laws are not going anywhere then people need to resist the urge to be white knights for copyright law.
I feel like the point of h bomber guy’s vid was to encourage people to do their own research in order to stop supporting ppl who straight up spread misinformation. i think ppl took it the wrong way tho based on what ur saying o(-(
THIS IS REAL AS FUCK!!!!!!!
@@superduper5831 I think that there is something to be said about not just ripping stuff 1:1 with no effort put in aside from your voiceover. Illuminaughti (is that how you spell it) was the one that upset me the most, since her content was basically just reading words on a page out loud and presenting it as her own thoughts. James somerton was bad for a few reasons, his plagiarism wasn't really justifiable but he had put in some effort at least. I dislike internet historian for other reasons, but I feel like the man in the hole video actually added a lot to the story by using visuals (though it was cringe AF that he didn't credit the article and just let everyone assume he wrote the story). In general I think if you credit things (in an obvious way and make it clear you are not taking credit) then it's fine to, well, steal. If you create a voiceover and animation for an article, I do think you should be able to release that to be enjoyed by people, even if the original creator didn't want you to do that. What tips it into being actually morally wrong (in my opinion) is passing the work off as your own.
No, copyright law still protects creators (not only art) in a way that is important to have. Without it, corporations would steal stuff that looks good from artists with no remorse at all, and small creators would have no means to protect themselves.
@@Filloaxa double edged sword, would you say?
I don't know the exact quote or where I remember it from, but there's an explanation I heard about the concept of "great artists steal" where being able to properly implement so many ideas from different sources and understanding why they work/are enjoyed shows that you are immersed in your craft and are well learned from other successful creatives. RAM shows that it can stand on its own ideas with confidence while also paying respectful homage to its shining predecessor before it, and as someone who has been struggling in finding their legs in understanding the balance of "stealing" and "original idea," I find this video breakdown incredibly inspiring. Hoping for a stellar launch for RAM, y'all deserve the incoming success ahead!
great artists learn (steal)
"Oh yeah, I just remembered that channel that does Deltarune sometimes! Here let me go back and watch a few! Wow that Gaster video is still pretty cool, I wonder when Andrew last uploade- Oh... Literally right now."
Literally just happened to me too
me, a half twit: why am i being slapdabbed deltarune theory videos-wait this guy has other videos- WAIT HES A GAME DEV
"we love andrew cunningham" we all say in unison.
We love andrew cunningham!
we love andrew cunningham
we love andrew cunningham
we love andrew cunningham
we love andrew cunningham
I feel like “stealing” ideas in a creative manner like this is not only inevitable, but NECESSARY. Like. In order to take the time and effort to create a game, you need to Love games. I mean LOVE them. And if you love something it will influence you, and your creative direction. That’s the beauty of video games as a community. People play games and love games and make games because of and through that love, which makes more people love games and make their own.
I kinda think of how JJBA Part 1 is basically Fist of the North Star except written by a crazy person. Realistically, it's impossible not to "steal" ideas because your creative drive is inherently coloured by the media you consume. I think the mark of a good artist is understanding that, and either evolving the concept or putting your own spin onto it, or both ideally.
Edit: I just realized that description of JJBA is, word for word, from a years old Super Eyepatch Wolf video, decided to keep it in because it kinda strengthens my point lol
Calling this stealing is honestly an exaggeration. It's not really stealing in any meaningful, it's inspiration.
I read the title as "Great artist seal" and was dissapointed to not see a seal paint for 19 minutes straight there is something wrong with me
Wonder posting
No, this is a perfectly normal reaction
Wonder speech bubble
I was expecting a video essay on why Kiss from a Rose is such a great song
No, there is something wrong with the video as you pointed out. There is no seal paint
oh you thought that because it wasn't a stream i wouldn't give you money? you are a fool
jokes aside, thank you so much for making a video like this, its easy when you make art to form a paranoia over it, that its less than the sum of its parts, that you are not enough to make it be worth something, fear of being a broken record instead of an artist
anxiety over stuff like this doesn't go away by thinking harder about it on your own, it disappears when others can share their experiences and make themselves vulnerable enough to show their fears and confront them as well as arming others with the power of knowledge and stories
your work is not just good, its important, you help people, and i wanted you to know that
Is that the argentine peso ?
@@fish5671 yes
@@ramirosilvaalmeida6768how much would that be in dollars
@@randomperson-pf6iy with a basic google, about $1, though I don't know how much 1000 ARS could buy you in Argentinia.
100% agree
this man is incredible
"And its a lesson i learned...after all, i stole all his audience. And his trophy"
WHAT A LINE. WHAT A LIIIINE AHAHAHAHA
RAMMING OUT IN APPROXIMATELY 42 DAYS
finally, I can download RAM without getting a virus.
There's a good Jack Kirby quote about stealing, "If you think a man draws the type of hands that you want to draw, steal 'em. Take those hands."
"Wait no get away from me with that knife that's not what I meant-"
Jack Kirby
Damn this videos overall message is exactly how i was feeling with seeing how proudly Toby Fox wears his inspirations on his sleeve
that realization that learning and copying from other things isn't shameful, but when done earnestly, is transformative and evolutionary.
Great vid, my guy
That might unironically be the most effective call to action I've ever seen in a RUclips video, and like most I've seen about 42 billion of those.
This is actually scary precise timing. I'm making my own game inspired by Undertale and some other anime and games I like, and I was worried that I wasn't actually creating anything original. The fact that Toby himself basically did the same thing really made me feel better. I really hope I can help by wishlisting your game !
I've desperately wanted to star developing a game for quite some time, but struggled with the feeling of unoriginality. I've done all sorts of little projects but nothing I have ever worked on went anywhere because I would tell myself "this is just a shiddy version of _____"... I have so many fond memories and an obsession over gamefeel, so in my mind, I want to take those feelings and amalgamate them together. Certain little aspects I wanted to basically steal from other games and give my own little twist to. Your process of "stealing" bits from other games, all leading up to a singular original mechanic is incredibly honest and... well, it makes a lot of sense. It's inspirational and realistic.
One day, you might just play a new indie game without realizing that you're directly responsible for the developer finding the conviction to unapologetically make it. I think I really needed to hear all of this. Thank you.
So there's an anecdote I couldn't fit into the video... when Toby and I won that award at IGF, we were ushered into this dark backstage area and interviewed by some press, but then on the walk back we passed this shadowy figure just standing backstage. It turned out he was Rami Ismail, co-creator of Nuclear throne. We shook his hand and deliriously explained how big of an inspiration his game was to ours, and he replied with some jedi-ass shit like "one day, someone else will be on that stage thanking you for inspiring them". Cool guy.
@@andrew_cunningham holy shit lol, good to know he's that cool in person too
I myself have an idea of an interesting twist in a vampire survivors-like genre that can make for a good game, developed full lore all interactions and how the balance is supposed to balance, but my ADHD ass can't sit through a single debugging session
@@DonMerigano Good luck, I get the pain
Also have ADHD, was debugging a tile-based heat system for a game mod project endlessly until I just gave up and shifted the mod around things I knew worked and tried to twist them around the mod's new mechanics
I will say, I don't know if I'll ever get the opportunity but I'd like to steal the "style system as currency" idea for a game of a completely different genre at some point.
Great video on the creative process Mr Cunningham.
do it
Very few things inspire me to make games or even just play music or whatever I'm interested in as much as your videos. I don't know what it is, but the way you lay out the creative process is so interesting, it's definitely helped by how consistently great your editing has been over the years. The speech on how media can just happen to you really resonated with me as well, another person who has been brainrotted by Undertale from the age of 13 to 22. I really wish Xylem Studiios the very best, and I'll be there when RAM launches.
Your "we came up with the swapping mechanic on our own even though there are other games with a similar premise" reminds me of a story I was writing on-and-off in middle school that I was SO proud of for its ~uniqueness~, and then 5 years later I watched Blade Runner for the first time and realized that was exactly what I was writing. Like, down to calling Replicants...Replicants. Coincidences happen sometimes and it's fucking hilarious.
Hbomb accidentally turning the entire internet into Nintendo lawyers is probably the most annoying thing to happen in the creative space.
Also OWL BOY MENTION!!!!!
Well this is exactly what i needed to get myself back into game development. I was worried that what i was planning took too much dna from RAM, but now im motivated to continue and make the worst RAM clone there ever was!
do it
Hell yeah dawg, do it!
@@andrew_cunningham Andrew, please do a game jam where people are tasked in making a RAM clone lol.
"Take what you like, rip out what you don't, then fill the gaps with yourself"
Ah yes, therapy
As someone hoping to make games some day: This was unbelievably inspiring
Can't wait to steal from RAM
Why does sans look like he’s about to mug me
he is
Because he is a great artist
The speech towards the end is really powerful, I found myself rewatching that last quarter of the video (basically the whole section with Heart of the Mountain) multiple times, it's really effective stuff
The final monologue - that about breaking a game's skeleton and fashioning a throne out of the pieces - makes me think of one word only: Sublation! You will overcome these games and create something entirely new, whose ultimate purpose is to be sublated again. This is the development of history, encapsulated in gamedev. Wishlisting RAM immediately!
This is a fucking masterclass in indie game marketing. Really really good video too but like goddamn if the purpose of writing this script was to have a video to publish now so people would wishlist I cannot imagine a better topic or execution especially in how sincere this is. I’m sure this video doesn’t exist solely to generate wishlists but holy shit this is a well crafted conveyer belt to get people who love indie games to respect your game and hit the funny button. Everything down to the goddamn thumbnail.
Amazing writing on this one. Plus, seeing such amazing, varied games as inspiration definitely sold RAM to me.
I don't think I've ever liked the 'vibe' of a video more. I have no clue what that means, but it feels so right though
Andrew "Toby Fox" Cunningham continues to have excellent and well-formatted takes
Definitely heavily resonate with the "cursed mirror" aspect of engaging with games as artistic works, I really do like to comprehend what makes them tick and how those pieces could be put together
amazing video! I love that you stressed that it doesn't matter if stealing ideas isn't "creative", since as long as the greater whole is creative and awesome enough, that's what people will remember it for.
Genuienly a wonderful message that I feel like more artists need to here!
This video helped me realize how to phrase something I've felt was the case for years.
All creative projects -- be it game dev, film, art, or drawing -- is ultimately the same as playing with legos. Your inspirations are the bricks, and the core concept is the base plate. Everything you've ever seen or done is a potential piece to add to the sack. True uniqueness is a myth designed to stop people fron creating. But making something new and original out of disperate parts can create the illusuon of being unique. And, more importantly, it lets you lead with your passions.
This video was not breaking down the creative process. This video was just showing us all the lego pieces and how they attached to the base plate. And god damn do I love Lego.
this is true for so many other mediums. i dont think i would have any good ideas for my short films if it werent for the hundreds of movies i watched. use your inspirations as your weapons of attack.
i love this video
i love the subtitle “how i learned to stop worrying and love the creative process,” that is never brought up directly but pierces me through the heart
we truly stand on the shoulders of giants, and i think the cursed mirror is just more proof of why games are so good, and i couldnt possibly explain the breadth of why.
well paced, well spoken, and captivates me in a way that i want to keep watching of my own volition.
im bad at being concise but i loved it :]
Dude you’re amazing with words holy crap. The one rant at the end about utilizing the cursed mirror was BARS
FINALLY someone who doesn't mindlessly defend copyright law as an overcorrection for a.i art
As someone someone thats on year two of this whole making games shit and have been drawing for much longer, this really spoke to me, thanks for that
As someone who works on his own big collection of ideas art thing for almost 10 years, this video really helped me better grasp my use of inspiration in my own work.
Thank you.
Bro just came up with the anthropophagic manifesto all over again but game style.
Let's. Go.
anthropophagic manifesto mentioned
The music choices, editing, and message are phenomenal.
I have worried - as many others have - that my ideas are too derivitive. Your shining a light on the degree that such a thing matters is vitally important and I thank you sincerely for it.
this is actually incredible advice and i feel like you just dispelled hundreds of hours of future suffering that i would have endured due to a fear of unoriginality. the least i can do is wishlist your game. thank you.
Gonna be honest, when I first saw the "swap" mechanic, I first thought MidBoss; not quite the same thing, but it came to mind. It's absolutely neat when people come up with the same idea in different ways, though, and I love keeping up with these devlogs! They're super fun, and inspiring!
Sometimes I feel like I’m the only one that remembers epic battle fantasy. Thank you.
EBF fills the role in my childhood that FF is supposed to.
WOOOO EPIC BATTLE FANTASY
FUCK YEAH!!!!
@@andrew_cunninghamI'm exactly the same way, I played the hell out of those flash games as a kinda-poor kid
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAH!
15:56 Honestly though this just tells me that palworld should win the lawsuit Nintendo is brining against them.
There's a RUclipsr named Ludwig who fully admits that all his ideas come from a "yoink and twist" method where he takes a thing or two, and then change them enough to make something interesting, and it's unironically a really solid way to think about getting ideas
The Usage of Epic Battle Fantasy footage in this made me smile. As someone who thinks these games are masively underrated, its nice to see them appear in other places. Really liked the video as well, as someone starting lots of ideas that are directly inpired by other art, I wholeheartdly agree with its message.
absolutely fantastic video as always. It's clear how much you love games, given how many different other fantastic indie games are referenced in the editing
john egbert jumpscare at 9:40
and 2:02!
we take these chat
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
I’ve been very self conscious in my own (very amateur) RPG Maker project about “stealing ideas,” and this has been a massive inspiration for me! Thank you so much
Input is such an important (but sometimes overlooked) part of output. So many incredible artists and the pieces of work they create owe everything to the artists before them, and those artists owe everything to the ones before them as well. Inspiration can be found anywhere; all it takes is an open mind and the willingness to search for it.
Goddamn this video is so great! I wasn't sure what you meant by cursed mirror that latches on to the soul until you explain it and that explanation is amazing! Ever since i watched The Magnus Archives ive started seeing its fragments everywhere, not as references to it, but pieces of the world it used in it's body to construct an expansive whole
i think the importance of stealing is that you also have to steal WHY you wanted to steal it, what makes an idea stand out; and not just stealing because you're out of ideas and want to take something to fill in the hole
once you also steal the reason you wanna steal the idea for you stole its essense and since you understand it you can also develop that idea, not just copying an a thing as it is
I said this on your first video and I will say it again, you have an insane talent for selecting the best possible clips for whatever point you are trying to make. Getting jumpscared with totono and yandev's coding at those exact moments was wild. RAM is wishlisted, I'll play the demo this weekend.
Did not expect this video to go so hard, also as someone who's been very interested in doing game dev eventually and is also easily very affected by media I really like this helped on a pretty personal level, all I can say is thank you
God this has been such a good set of game dev vids, ones actaully diving into the thought processes and ideas behind everything
0:33 rare Epic Battle Fantasy W
Ah fuck... this finally got me my motivation for working on a game again that has been on a "hiatus" (for like two years)
I’m gonna be honest, I’m currently coming up with ideas for a game i’d like to make but I have always felt like “if I do ______ then the fans of a game like undertale will get mad that i’m just being unoriginal” and now I realize with some concepts people don’t have a monopoly over them. A soul in a game represented by a heart? it’s not an undertale exclusive. also i just have more confidence that i was molded by the games I like and that causes me to use similar ideas. Thank you for the wisdom mr. cunningham
exceptional video quality, both in terms of visual appeal and content!!!
every one of my favorite indie shmups have sneaked in battle garegga's vulcan sweep and it's GOATed
I was just thinking of my game which is largely inspired by Undertale and was worrying about how to change some core mechanics so perfect timing of this video. Helped me with this process so thank you and hope the best for RAM
2:01 THE BABY IS YOU MENTION!!
11:30 lol no ones gonna get that outside of the livestreams
Also good damn job on the video, inspiration²
Azzypants OTP
God it's weird seeing EBF references, loved that shit when i was little.
Matt Roszak taught my infant ass what RPGs were. Thank god for Scottish weeaboos.
have you heard of our lord and saviour,anti idle the game?
This video goes incredibly hard. Especially with all of us other undertalites reaching the point in our lives where we wanna make something, I don’t think I’m the only one who this came out damn near at the perfect time for.
one by one MENTIONED. the fic i read that completely closed undertale for me. i read it and i was just, like, "yeah, i'm done. that's it, i'm Genuinely Completely Satisfied." it was also the first thing i ever read on AO3, which is now where i put, like, most of my creative efforts into??? crazy.
hilarious because of course, sans in that fic sounds basically a helluva lot like Ford Pines from Gravityfalls LOL
also homestuck visually referenced. we win these
i'm a fanfiction author. it's how i identify myself. i dont know -- im still young, i still have time. im Making those fangame. im draping myself over the original work but im still inviting it into my house for tea. its complicated, for sure -- but with a work as encompassing as Homestuck...
you ever think about how kill six billion demons started as an mspfa lol
Great video!
It's good that you mention Isaac because not only does it ALSO takes from a bunch of other games, it has influences from all sorts of stuff; Music, Film, Comics, Real Life experiences especially. If anything, some devs could really use hobbies outside of video games for influence and inspiration.
Nuclear Throne being brought up is a welcome sight to see in a video like this, it's an underrated game; I was still obsessed with it around the same time I was obsessed with undertale. I even attempted some crossovers between the two back in the day.
Also, shoutouts to Spelunky Classic, one of the first, if not THE first rougelike. Isaac was heavily influenced by it, and one of the few rouglikes released between Rouge and Isaac.
Ah you see, I cleverly justified never mentioning Spelunky by specifying "top down" rogelike. Also I just don't really play Spelunky so it's a moot point. Nuclear Throne, though, is actually more influential to RAM than the video implies, I just could figure out where to give it a section.
@@andrew_cunningham I should've read the fine print!
But really, good luck with the game, though. And good luck with the games after that too.
Leathericecream jumpscare
Hey - I'm SUPER enthusiastic about RAM coming out and I want to do everything I can to help. Unfortunately, I've already got the game Wishlisted on Steam, but it sounds like Wishlisting it during this upcoming event would be very impactful. Should I un-Wishlist and then re-add it during the event, or would that have no tangible impact, to your knowledge?
(Will obviously just leave it on my Wishlist if there's no reason to remove and re-add, so feel free to just ignore this if that's the case lol)
I have no idea if this works lol. I'd say don't worry about it.
"It's about pulling ideas from your influences with the confidence that your ideas are strong enough to subsume them. That you can participate in a work's legacy without being the work, or belonging to it"
This, this in its entirety, is what makes this video something amazing.
The kinds of people who rag on someone for making "[blank] at home" or "discount [blank]" tend to not understand that it is in fact very hard to create an entirely new piece of media without taking elements from other media, be it intentionally or subconsciously.
You HAVE to consume media in order to create media, since doing so, and analyzing what you consume is basically the only way to learn what made it so good.
Many things in writing, game design, etc, are all derivatives of the ones before it. A "Good game" is not one torch passed from person to person, imagination is a fire at the center of a stone pit that you have to use to light your own torch, and the design of your torch will deem if the fire consumes it whole, or sits atop it patiently.
Don't be afraid to be inspired by other torches.
There's something really funny about Gaster saying "SEEMS LEGIT" for some reason.
UNFATHOMABLY TRUE
This is such an amazing video, and I think I will be quoting that closing monologue piece
I have paused at 12:36 to submit my late guess of Enemy Mind, because I love that game.
Oh cool you didn't take that one from something lmao
I searched through the comments literally for anyone commenting Enemy Mind, because that was also my guess.
Okay I’d admit, I’m not to into games that’s just hack and slash for the sake of hack and slash, I need something else to really give me a reason to play. Whether that’s like a really cool music mechanic or storytelling. I was sold when the trailer showed living the enemies lives after you take over them. That’s genius, and makes me actually want to play your game. I’m poor can’t guarantee I’ll buy it, but it makes for defense wish list.
I mean, the textures for the original dust maps of Counter-Strike was insanely inspired by the then screenshots of Team-Fortress 2 which had a different style and name called “brotherhood of arms”. In fact, even Dust 1 borrowed heavily from the map geometry of those screenshots. So even the most iconic stuff came from others.
God I really hope the video doesn’t flop, seeing the views drop on the last 2 devlogs was disheartening. Your videos are THE best I’ve ever watched. Period. They’re just that good. (Also a frequent, to an unhealthy degree, vod watcher. Very comfy streams)
Thanks for all the effort you’ve put into your stuff and hoping for the successful release of the game. 30 hours on a demo alone seem promising enough to me!
10:54 Yooo Running Shine mention, I love that guy
Great video btw, I have always been an ardent believer in the "bad artists copy, great artists steal" addage, and this is a great breakdown of how being influenced by the media we consume is unavoidable and it's better to not pretend like you can literally reinvent the wheel. I actually avoided watching your RAM devlogs but I got tricked into watching this video because I thought it was "just" a video essay but I probably will be picking up RAM when it releases, the game looks great 👍
that clip with "rearrange the skeleton to your liking" absolutely got me. like this is an incredible video that will stick with me forever but also oh my gosh that's a top notch skeleton joke
It's funny how easy this is to understand, yet people forget about it every two minutes
Andrew putísimo amo.
You went beyond your incredible analisis and writing skills and went on to blindly create your own greatest challenge.
I truly hope this game fills you with the pride and determination you deserve.
VAMOOOOOOOS
Something funny is thet ram is alredy worth stealing from but in diferent way then you think, I'm alredy designing ram inspired things
I'm so excited for RAM!! I just got Dome Keeper today because I know that one of RAM's sprite artists did work on that game, and I'll absolutely be throwing this video around and getting a small group of people to wishlist the game on steam
This video has a lot to offer. Thank You
i can't put into words how this video made me realize how important it is to take inspiration from others, take it to heart, and never to shy away from those same inspirations
4:00 my gosh do I have good memories of playing Hisoutensoku
That ending ways easily the single best marketing plea I’ve ever heard. Will wishlist the second I get to my computer at home. ✅✅✅
I FUCKING LOVE ULTRAKILL AAAAAAAAAGHHGHGHHGHG
Also this video was awesomesauce
Good art *always* ends up becoming a dialog between past and future. The best works always seem like they were talking with a guy who wouldn't be born for 20 years, and then the next masterpiece completes the dialog by talking back-- and they complete each other. You can't do this without shamelessly grafting chunks of other works together. As Northrup Frye famously criticized (regarding copyright law and such, written in the 50s but way more relevant today):
"All art is equally conventionalized, but we do not ordinarily notice this fact unless we are unaccustomed to the convention. In our day the conventional element in literature is elaborately disguised by a law of copyright pretending that every work of art is an invention distinctive enough to be patented. Hence the conventionalizing forces of modern literature-the way, for instance, that an editor's policy and the expectation of his readers combine to conventionalize what appears in a magazine-often go unrecognized. Demonstrating the debt of A to B is merely scholarship if A is dead, but a proof of moral delinquency if A is alive."
Which is all to say: Good video. You're right, and you should say it. It genuinely worries me that people seem willing to go to bat so neurotically for "intellectual property," and I hope it falls out of fashion sooner rather than later.
Love the demo already, first tried it out a while back- and compared to then, it seems super polished now. And despite that, all the footage in this video seems so much more like a fully realized idea- because it is! Planning on buying RAM day one. I feel weirdly proud and mostly excited to see how this incredible idea looks when scaled up to a real release.
I regret to inform you Andrew that the style system in ultrakill is also how you gain currency to buy upgrades and new guns
There's a pretty big difference between style determining how quickly you gain access to a game's unlockable content and determining how strong you temporarily get within a given roguelike run.
I never go for style in Ultrakill, but I still unlocked all the weapons ages ago just by playing. Fitness is reset before each run in RAM, so there's no substitute for actually maximizing the style of each kill.
@@andrew_cunningham logically speaking I knew that was true but I wanted to be an annoying pedantic little shit for the sake of exclusively my own amusement
I think "Nightmare Video" is the best way that Spear of Justice video can be described like everything about that video is just utterly baffling yet presented with the utmost confidence
This video was so good, idk why I slept on it as long as I did.
8:00 aw yes, my two favorite topics. Game Dev, and Chinese Cooking Demystified.
This video perfectly sums up my thoughts when it comes to the fantasy comic I've spent the last half decade dreaming up. Look at it closely enough, and you will find the tattered, sewn-together hides of everything I've ever loved wrapped around a warm, glowing ball of what makes me. And I'm proud that it's coming out the way it is. The artist's obsession with originality is a dream killer.
of course they do, otherwise stagnation occurs
love the vid!
“great artists steal” payday 2:
I LOVE STEALING, STEAL FROM THE RICH GIVE TO MYSELF
I’m sure what Andrew Cunningham meant by that title is that James Somerton was actually a visionary.
As a certifiably brain-rotten individual, this video is either going to convince me to write Undertale fanfiction or force me to become so Delusional (TM) over my fanwork it eventually transcends into something wholly original. Your conclusion to your video essay is evocative and potent, Mr. Cunningham. *Someone is going to **_be_** something because of you.*
I’ve been championing your game to one of the gaming groups I’m in for a year now, and I hope more people check it out next week at Next Fest