Archery FAQ: Thumb Ring - yes - no - which one?
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- Опубликовано: 30 июл 2024
- I am not a scientist, not a historian. I simply explain here how I personally do it. Everybody can feel free and do it differently. But as people have asked for my personal opinion: here it is. Mostly I don't use thumb rings, because i trained my thumb.
Развлечения
Learning online about a thumb ring after deciding to buy a Korean bow.
Step n#1 - Do a zillion of researches of why whynots, hows and do's
Step n#2 - Watching this great video and deciding a gaffer tape self-made ring will do. I just need to mind the layering "away from the thumb" in order to not to stain the bowstring. Easy to replace every month, almost zero money cost.
Case solved. Tens of bucks saved. Thanks a bunch.
Tape? That is genius! Thank you!!!
Again, golden advice. I was beginning to despair that I would not be able to use a thumb release, Armin, as it was hurting to draw 30#. Good to know that it gets better with gradual practice. Just like the ring finger of my drawing hand with three fingers. Over the years, I have built up a callus and never have pain shooting hundreds of shots with my 50# bow. I will take it slowly and should be good in a year or two to shoot such a weight with my thumb! Thanks.
I'm maker of this ring
I definitely appreciated seeing this video, since I am contemplating which, if any, thumb ring to buy. Thanks Armin!
This is by far the most informative video I've seen on thumb drawing so far! So many archers with skills seem to forget how it was to be a beginner, and just present platitudes - you convey the dynamics and experience to a newbie like me, with your experience in an understandable and relatable way. Thanks! I discovered archery just this summer, and I've tried to try all things remotely luring me (_all using the compound bow I was borrowed_), quickly turning to finger release, and now enjoying the thumb draw simply is as the most suitable method for what I enjoy (but sooo painful - I loathe protection [unfortunately])!
Hey Armin thank you for easin my mind. I started archery with a 40# korean bow a month ago, but after shooting for 30-40 min it starts to hurt. Now i know time will make my thumb callus thicker and stronger. Thank you for getting me into archery, its amazing!!!
helpful vid, thanks. indeed, techniques improve gradually. Working from lower to higher poundage is the sensible way to do it. Nice arrows too :D
When you dropped the arrow... That's the way I do it. so far... lol
yeah 6:59 brings stupid smile on my face. ;P
Thank you Herr Hirmer. That was an excellent video and it helped. Bravo.
thank you for watching!
Great video. Thank you. Now I'm gonna practice, practice, practice.
Nice collection thanks for sharing!
I found out about thumb rings watching "Dirillus Ertugrul"
A Turkish movie from around 1200 era
Nice video, thnks
😂 me too! Just finished the series 2 days ago. I was thinking it was an odd fashioned type ring. Now it makes sense! Thanks mate! 🇦🇺
They already had movies around 1200? Amazing!
selamun aleykum from İstanbul
Really interesting as usual. I should try shooting that way one of these days. BTW, you have a really nice place. It muct be a very old house !!!
thank you. yes it is a old house. here they call it "house of character" which means you will have a lot of work with it haha. but I like it many stairs and corners, like a mini caste :D
I’ve noticed your form is always the same. I look forward to having the same form all the time.
Thank you
it gives you a nice feeling of control .... ;-) thanks for the vid!
Hey I do that at home I got a box and filled it with styrofoam and taped it up and shoot at it without a full draw. Then slowly as you get warmed up you feel when you are ready and more confident and you start wanting to do full draws. Yes I’m developing my thumb to not use rings but is nice to have one thumb ring that fits perfect just in case you thumb needs a break.
Arm and Hammer... (sorry for the joke... I had to) I love your videos! You are very good at giving different points of view on grip and drawing... I am awaiting my first Alibow shipment to arrive, going on your recommendation. It’s been close to six weeks now... I’m hoping they deliver before I start building my own eastern style bow... may the gods be in your favor.
“Arm and Hammer” is a double-joke… That brand was created by a guy named Armand Hammer. For better advertising, he named his company “Arm and Hammer”.
Armin’s name is the German equivalent of Armand’s...
Armin - defender
Armand - warrior
Himer - home
Hammer - inn
Very cool that you picked up on the original joke!
Thank you much for this Video and the inspiration it gives !!! greets from sOA brothers from Germany
more then welcome und danke fürs kucken :D
Hello Armin !!!😀😀😀
I noticed that you don't have the GEMINI ring ...
It is a ring for heavy bows , used 2000 years ago by romans .
I am using this ring , when I am shooting with my 100 lbs hazel bow , and is a great releaser for mediteranean shooting . You should trie this ring ...
Great video about thumb rings , full of interesting informations !
Thanks for sharing with us !!!😀😀😀
Sorin the bowman / ROUMANIA
Wonderful video! Lots of great information about different styles. I did not know there were so many.
I did not see one, but have you done a video about draw styles? Mongolian, Hungarian, etc.? It is hard to see how you curl your fingers around the string… Example: thumb over arrow, and 2 fingers under? Or 1 finger under?
You know so much! I wish I could learn all the styles you know… Thank you, Armin! All your videos are so good!!
Never mind… I found your draw videos. Du machst tolle arbeit!
Danke schön, Armin 🙏😎
Thanks to you, I can shoot thumb-draw, and also thanks to you, I use that "veterinarians' tape" you described in one of your vids. I made myself a nice thumb ring from the local California bay laurel, but I don't use it. More trouble than it's worth. I need to be able to feel the string more directly and have more control over the release to avoid inconsistencies. Also, if I need to shoot an elephant in an emergency, well, it would be tragic to be caught without my thumb ring.
hahahaha thank you
;-D
He missed an opurtinity to use a fake thumb and have him rip it off with a ring lol
@Weston Kaysen Yeah, awesome spam from a day, brand new accounts!
Great detail on this subject.
Thank you for watching and taking time commenting
Thx so much I'll start to do it like you explain.
nice video very educational for my :D
I like korean rings I just made one new
but I vant to try made and try to use manchu ring and somethink like that you show before them with hok that fix arrow
I've been getting a lot of pain trying out the thumb draw even with a leather thumb tab. Im shooting my 45lb western recurve (its a left handed one with a grip that conveniently works for right handed thumb draw) is the problem that i need a stronger protection or do I just need better release ? (I'm also getting a 30lb Mongolian style bow to learn with in the mail at some point but i wanted to mess around with my usual bow while I waited)
With 30# it will be easier :) in the beginning almost every ring hurts
Thanks, very informative. Could you show us how you knock the arrow with the cylindrical rings, the last two? I couldn't see clearly.
FYR: at 6:30, the design on that ring is a stylized 壽 shou, long life.
You are the master 👏
just awesome
I just lost my thumb guard today, it must have fallen out of my bag while I was out in the garden and im taking it as an opportunity to learn how to shoot without one .
If you know any 10 pin bowlers , when they have equipment ( balls) drilled , they have thumb insert , this materil is a softer pvc material , the material has all different thumb sizes that are over in shape , and is easy shaped using a knife , very durable , check it out , I make thumb rings with these , easy and cheap
Thank you. From Louisiana 2018
From Texas. ..na actually from California but too ashamed to admit :( what is happening
Well said
Thumbs up on the thumb ring video!
Wonder how thin of a seating section you could get away with on a thumb ring... since I have some jewelery experience, this sounds like something I should experiment with once I actually get my hands on a horsebow.
6:52 "... and it gives you a nice feeling of control." *drops arrow* ;-)
(at least you got that nice feeling ...)
For a person who started with mongol release it’s hard for me to imagine people don’t use thumb ring, they must have iron thumbs....
don't end up like Erhí mergen
Excellent video. I was worried I was putting the string on the wrong place on my thumb. From what I can see I put it in the same location you do. My thumb hurts like crazy and I only use a 30# bow. Could you give more exercises and training techniques for the thumb. How long should I shoot, rest, repeat , etc?
Thank you. It is normal that the thumb hurts in the beginning. Don't shoot to often at once, build it up :)
That is a beautiful bow
Tatar Bow from AF Archery
Considering you have a lot of experience with various types of thumb rings, how should one measure themselves for one that isn't a Manchu thumb ring? I can never tell how tight I should make the calipers, or where exactly on the joint I need to be measuring.
Because of this, I have not had a lot of success with the thumb rings that I have gotten through Vermil. One seemed to fit, but started to slide off after shooting a few arrows. The other was too small and I had to sand the inside to make it fit, but then after about an hour and a half of shooting at my club, my thumb began to get sore. The model of both of these rings was the Vermil Victory, and I wonder if maybe I should try the Vermil Classic (lipped).
I'm also not sure, with the smaller thumb ring, if maybe it is too tight still, but the measurements I came to are not even available from Vermil usually, and I would have to modify each ring after buying a size down.
EDIT: For reference as to my possibly incorrect thumb ring size, I have measured my ring that fits without slipping off as being 17.5x20.5mm.
Hi. Like Justin Ma shows on his website: www.cinnabarbow.com/marinerbows/rings.html
And still it will never be ONE perfect size, as your thumb is not always the same. usually you will have at least 2 rings. One for winter, one for summer
Hi @Armin , where do you put the string when you use the cylindrical thumb ring?
The problem I am having now with Korean thumb ring is that it will put a lot of pressure on the place where your thumb bend(the skin at joint part)...I shoot about 200-250 arrows with my 60lb most of the time, and I have to take a rest for a whole week to recover and that's really annoying. I am considering Manchu thumb ring now since I am using a Manchu bow. However, I doubt if Manchu thumb ring will hurt the joint of the thumb? I am considering buying this world.taobao.com/item/45238769182.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.hhzo5h#detail
Do you think this is a functional one or just for decorative purpose?
the manchu ring will hurt too in the beginning until you get used to it. maybe overall you should start a low draw bow and not so many arrows in the beginning and raise amount of arrows and draw weight
as usual, when you learn something new (like shooting manchu ring) use a light weight bow, so you get used to it quick without loosing technique.
this ring looks quite nice and I guess it will work fine. As always in the beginning, you might experience some light pain in the knuckle of your thumb. But that does not take long. For me it was the easiest to learn ring
MATT K/ In Korea, they use Male thumb ring if the bow is over 50 pounds. all thumb rings in this Vid are Female thumb ring form. Male thumb ring( Sugakji in Korean and you can google it to see the looking) is for you.
What happen if don't make thumb protector in long day?
Quick question Armin i went for the heavier 50# bow without a ring at 1st, until i had blood blisters and i think i hurt ky tendons and ligaments as you've said 😅. And then opted for a ring but now i feel that my thumb is hurts much even if i try a 25-35# bow without a ring. Should i lay off a bit for it to fully heal or should i just keep practicing with a thumb ring😢. Thanks again for your video wish i've seen it earlier. ❤
If I want to learn thumb release should I bother with a thumb ring at all at the beginning or would it be worth it to start with?
I would start with a low draw weight bow and maybe a leather protection
great video, thanks from China
welcome, thanks for watching
I like the metal ring with the hook. where can I buy it from?
www.cinnabarbow.com/marinerbows/rings.html
very interesting
ah yes i play guitar i can concur! Yet thumb rings are cool because they are fashionable status symbols that youre an archer :)
can you say where you got the ring from 9:07 its so badass
hehe thanks for watching. i got my king rui ring through a friend on china. cinnabar bows is selling them
Cheers
I just bought my first thumb ring and noticed that it doesn't have a groove so the string rests on my skin. Any tips on how to draw the bow or do I have to put in a groove myself?
you need to find the right angle with your thumb, then it works and you can insert a leather flap to protect your skin
I would like a smaller one i feel like a big ring would get on my nerves
Do you still have feeling in your thumb. I’ve been told it can cause nerve damage. I’m new to archery so is this true or are people trying to sell me stuff?
I doubt it bc ur thumb strengthens over time
I have had pain shooting all the way up to my inner elbow, the end of the Ulna bone.
this was while using a leather thumb ring. I reinforced the leather with a 2nd layer and also wrap my thumb in althletic tape and its better now.
lots of opinions here by armchair archers. See my comments below.
@@gregh4284 Keep using K-tape, could get an elbow brace. I'm a medical massage therapist, seems like you've been having some thoracic outlet or carpel tunnel symptoms. This happens often when the tricep gets strained, bows are hard on your body. I take magnesium to help repair and relax muscles, it behaves as a laxative if you get too much, but right below that threshold is ideal. All-Calm is a good brand, unflavored, can find it at most health food stores. Just make sure you add boiling water, I take mine with different teas. Beyond that, alternating ice and heat 10-20 mins at least for the icing part, and properly stretching beforehand makes a lot of difference.
@@maskcollector6949 thank you sir, I appreciate the advice.
You mention you don’t use the ring because you don’t need, since you’ve developed a callus. But what about the speed of release: I’ve seen claims that manchu rings > other rings (korean/mongolian/turkish/etc.) because they allow for a cleaner release that doesn’t require thumb curling. Do you have comments on that? (Perhaps a separate FAQ video? :) ) Thanks.
You will always have a slightly cleaner release with a ring, imo. Good idea with the video and a comparison. Almost all rings require curling, only not the manchu ring.
What are the dimensions of those last two thumb rings?
the king rui is huge and heavy and the last one is simply a manchurian style ring
Hallo Armin, seit 3 Wochen schieße ich meine Pfeile ohne Ring ... zwirbelt etwas... bin jetzt bei 35 Pfund und 50 Pfeilen hintereinander. Vielleicht hast du ja noch einige Anregungen für Uns die auf den Daumenring verzichten wollen. Mein Ziel Gewicht sind ca 50 bis 55 Pfund für den Chang An von Alibow bei Vollauszug. Danke für die tollen Videos über die Jahre hinweg... By
Where can you get the King Rui's thumb ring? Cinnabar shows they have it but link is dead. I use Vermil classic and an slightly oversized Vermil classic that I added leather to the thumb pad for comfort
You can find them on Amazon and eBay for 35usd
@@ArminHirmer Wow, you replied! I cannot find the "King Rui's thumb ring" unless it goes by a different name on amazon and ebay. I did find the ring at okyaygeleneksel for 150 turkish lira/23.50USD. Cinnabarbow replied to my email and they have discontinued it.
@@marksiaotong5246 yeah, seems the ring is not available anymore... get the painless thumb ring from Alibow, feels better and is not so heavy
I am completely new to archery but have a question. These modern bows seem to come with around 50 pounds of draw weight max unless you get a custom build. However from the (limited) amount I've read on what the Mongols and others were using in war, the bows were well over 100 pounds. Obviously it takes a lot of practice to get up to a weight like that but why are modern bows made with a maximum draw of less than half of what were being used in history? (this is related to the thumb ring issue because he Mongols used them apparently and they were maybe a necessity with the power of the bows they were using?)
just come cross this after 2 years lol
1. because in the past, the bow is used to kill, now, modern archery only cares about accuracy, if you ever shoot a 80 pounds+ bow at sth, the arrow usually just breaks.
2. as I said, modern archer only cares about score and accuracy, that's why their form isvery similar, and largely different than those you would see in the past( with body bending forward, hips out, over draw, because the modern man just wants consistency, they don't want power and mobility.
3. if you ever draw a 40-pound bow, you will know drawing a 100-pound bow in competition will rip your arm off even if you are the strongest dude on earth. it is not good for long-term practice, there are some skeleton displays of the long bowmen in England, and their skeleton was simply distorted due to the long-term use of a heavy longbow
4. in conclusion, if you put a modern Olympics archer in the battlefield 600 years ago, he would probably get killed. he cant shoot when running, he cant reload while running, his arrow will fall when he's riding on horse back, he is not get used to over draw so the enemy may survive. They just meant to be shooting machines that have high accuracy in the expense of mobility and power.
and btw, in the world of asiatic archery, its pretty common people trying a 60+ pounds bow, which is more close to history (65-100pounds, 100+pounds are usually elite archer, not very common in the past, since 65 is already enough to kill a bear)
@@youtubeadsarecancer785 Thanks for the detailed answer buddy :)
the worse thing i ever did when i got started years ago was get over-bowed. talking about developing bad habits and injuries.
now i'm back to 35-30 bows but injuries and bad habits are here to stay.
step by step you can't rid of your habits :) and yes, injuries take long... keep training
For Manchu thumb ring, it does not seem to be 'tight". How do you prevent it from slipping out of your thumb? Thank you.
you bend your first joint a bit, the ring is sitting exactly on it. that will hold the ring perfect in place
Hmm, at the moment of release, my thumb is trying to straighten...I need to practice more and watch your video a thousand times :).
Forgot to ask, my thumb joint felt big pressure and thumb turns red. is it normal?
please where to findthe King Louie thumb ring?
www.cinnabarbow.com/marinerbows/rings.html#kingofrui
As a brand new archer can you share why and when you choose on release method over another?
I shoot all releases methods, I simply like thumb release more - happened more then ten years ago
I enjoy both mediteranian and thumb.
I generally use mediteranian for target shooting, and thumb for less serious fun time with friends who are currious about the different aspects of the sport.
Olá !! Gostaria de saber quanto custa um arco mongol desses
Quantas lb (Brasil)
Fibreglass 100 USD, laminated 300-400, composite +1000
Nice video! Found manchu rings the most comfortable and easy to make. They look bulky but release is smooth and not painful even after 120 shots with 45+ pound bow. Thumb training is too chinese for me)
I like them too, you don't need to bend the thumb that much and release is smooth :) thank you for your comment
Would you like to make a video about different anchoring when shooting horsebows? Especially drawing to the ear. Thanks!
yes I will do that soon :)
agree... and, at least for me, manchu rings have the cleanest release
yepp, for me too :)
I use a normal silver thumb ring
Where can you buy the thumbring with the little lid on it? 6.30 in the movie
www.cinnabarbow.com/marinerbows/rings.html
Did you carve the design in it yourself? I do not see the same ring for sale anymore.
What is the max you can pull and shoot with a bare thumb?
depends how often hahaha, 60# is no problem but only maybe 10 times then :)
Armin Hirmer Thats impressive. I have a long way to go
building callus way of a warrior on the bow handle
thanks again bow sense jejeji
:)
exactly :) thanks for watching
Vernon Cooney : Depend how much pain you can take and how tough your thumb is.
To be honest Armin, I'm not a great fan of the thumb draw. I do like the Med draw. But to be frank, I'm probably stuck in my ways and it needs a younger archer, perhaps my son?- to lead me to enlightenment.
Flaxen Saxon
Everyone has their preferences. I certainly didnt love thumbdraw when I started, and my thumb loved it even less.
I decided to stick with it since I was interested in long draw, Gao Ying's inchworm method, and the various forms of Khatra, and after a month or two of grinding my thumb down and building the skin back up, I felt ready to begin practicing Thumbdraw more than mediteranian.
When I teach archery, I usually introduce people to what thumbdraw is, and how to do it, but preface it with "this can be much harder to learn, and is not as common in the sport as mediteranian." and let everyone choose whether its worth the effort.
Some of them did, and some of them didnt. It all depended on what they wanted from archery
its name is zihgir. Turkic archers traditionally uses it.
Hola! ¿cuál es el nombre del anillo real que enseñas casi al final? No alcanzo a distinguir el nombre que dices llamarle. Saludos cordiales desde Chile!
Which one?
will push ups help my thumb strength ??? (im talking about the muscles not the skin)
every training helps. i would choose something only for thumb, or at least fingers and hands
I recommend towel pull-ups instead.
Just drape a couple towels over a pull-up bar, and hold onto them with a vertical grip as you do your pull-ups. You may have to ease yourself into it and work a progression first, but it's one of the best ways I know to actively target your thumbs.
I always protection
as a archer i find practising with what u can pull and hold with confidence is where you will push your self to do better. i started at 25-30-50-55-70 now im buying a 85 why? cause shooting is fun as fuck. does that mean i can pll a 170? fuck no but it should never be all your might.
yes. for me it is not how much you can draw - it is how much fun you have while shooting
You got it wrong for the one at 6:40. That little thing is for holding the string
the little thing is not able to hold a string. You simply put the string between the big lip and the little thing and fine. But when it works in another way for you, fine. But don't simply tell others are wrong. Thank you
where are you from?
Germany, but I live in Malta
kann man noch den "Gao Yin" Metallring mit Haken irgendwo beziehen?
Der hat doch sehr mein Interesse geweckt!
Ich habe den Ring durch einen Freund in China von "taobao" shop bekommen. Die Qualität war leider nicht, wie der Prototyp war. Dennoch ein schöner Ring. Habe noch ein order zwei hier. Welche Daumengröße?
Ah okay!
Bisher habe ich nur konfektionsringe, bei denen pendelt es zwischen 19x >22 und 20x >22
Are you based in Malta, I leave in Gozo.
Will be great to meet ...
yes I am and yes would be great :)
BUT..... WHERE TO BUY???
many options, google it and you find loads, even on Etsy are now a lot
Got the same problem with my korean thumb ring. Never got to use it much cause i also found it too slippery.
needs maybe more practice :) but when i don't feel comfy from the beginning, why should I hahaha
Armin Hirmer Haha I'll try practicing with it and if it still feels weird i'll probably just get a different thumbring.
good luck :D
Usually thumb rings are tailor-made. If you buy from internet possibly wont really fit to your size. It meant to give you comfort not hurt you. So i guess size or shape problem. By the way traditionally theres no "I trained my thumb, i dont need ring" even 25# bow can really hurt your finger in long term. Ancient time archers put the thumb ring 7/24. Never remove from their fingers.
you are right. still some people did not use thumb rings all time. I always say: do what feels right and good for you and stick to it.
he looks like Dr. Strange
hehe Dr. Strange looks a bit like me ;)
What make of this bow?
AF Archery, China
Have you had a chance compare it to Kaya's?
I shot long ago a Kaya. Nice bows, I guess it was only 30 or 31" max draw. Smooth, I simply don't like the korean style handle :)
Gotcha ))) We'll talk more, if you don't mind. Great vids, by the way!
:) thanks
........callous build up ........
Shoot thumb release, he said. It's fun, he said. Nah, you do not need a thumb ring, he said - but no one said I would have a thumb like a balloon after shooting two dozen arrows. ;) Be honest, Armin - how long did it take you to have such a nice horn skin on your thumb? Just kidding. Thank you very much for all those informative Videos. By the way, it's your "fault" that I've ordered a 22# Snake Bow from Arc Rolan to give this whole archery thing a try. Despite of the thumb it's great fun so far and till the thumb ring arrives, I'll concentrate on the mediteranian style. :)
Actually he did warn you to take it slow...
@@GoA7250 In fact, you should have read the whole text. I mentioned clearly that I joked. Anyway, thanks for your opinion.
@@frankwagner3070 how is that an opinion of mine?
I simply said, he said.
Joke or not... was not an opinion.
Are we really going to fight about this?
Your "joke" was TL;DR.
@@GoA7250 if it was tl;dr just don't comment. And if someone is going to pick up a fight, it seems to be you. Have a nice day.
why not wear 3 of them as finger tabs . and shoot them normally? You dont have to use you thumb to make these tabs work well .
Turkish/Ottomans bows
Sorry, but you should use more modern let's say iPhone to record! The quality of movie is awful, specially the sound.
Sure, but you know one has to start at a point :) if you watch my more recent videos you see a difference :)
@@ArminHirmer Yes, there is a big difference!
Aren't the Koreans the best archers in the world ?
depends how you define "best". Olympic right now they are... horseback sure not... instinctive I don't know...
Try to shoot a boar this "less than 15 pounds bow" which "won't ruin your technique" and see what happens. I believe, this will "ruin you technique" a lot easier :)
Who the fuck hunt with a 15 pounds? If you're into hunting, then you're in the wrong channel. People don't discuss hunting archery here.
@@RoyMcAvoy I just want to point out that weak bow will ruin your technique. With strong bow you cant shoot at all without perfect technique. With weak bow you can do what you think your trainer said then you will become trainer yourself then you student will misunderstand you and in a few generations we will have world championship with panties rubber bands in hands. Sport need feedback to avoid this.