Callum: "...and then there's Josh, whose account is collecting dust because he hasn't logged in for two days" Josh: "ehem... Five players sharing the responsibility of adventure! And the passion for 'teamwork' is back, baby! YEAH!!!!"
I think some of the appeal for Group Ironman is true nostalgia. Instead of doing the most efficient method or doing everything on your own, Group Ironman feels like what RuneScape was like before the grand exchange, when you were just a kid playing the game with no idea that trade worlds existed and you just played the game, and your friends played the game, and you only really interacted and traded with your friends.
I would say that the psychology behind group Ironman is to develop a close and intimate bond and sense of comradery between a few players. This is also why I think small group instanced content (namely 5 man) is so popular. It creates an environment for players to engage in close interpersonal interactions which are a whole lot different compared to the external superficial interactions between players in the wider server community.
There is no multiplayer in massive, at least it keeps requiring more and more effort to hit those levels where you are seen as a player. I guess people call those players legends or something.
Yeah. Superficial interactions like having a max level bow user stun lock a noob to death while he’s just trying to mine rune ore. Fun times. Looooooooooove the RS community.
in the past i've played a little mmo called EUOTOPIA which is very much a Ultima inspired game; and it has a Living Off The Land mode. Basically permadeath + you cannot trade with players, buy from merchants, sell to merchants, or use the banks. You have to find or make everything yourself and carry everything you own, it was a pretty great experience.
I become enthralled whenever Josh spills lusty comments about how awesome OSRS is. Me getting excited about RunEscape while he's getting excited about RunEscape.
This is exactly how my friends and I took New World. One of us is the fisher. I'm the miner/blacksmith. One is the woodcutter/furniture maker. One is the engineer / silk / leather collector. Working together to achieve eachother's goals of gaining power for the group is the greatest feeling, because we all benefit from it. That old school feeling of tackling the world together is one of the best feelings obtainable in an online MMO setting, and it's why New World is thriving for the lot of us.
@@randzopyr1038 we actually stopped playing this week. Bugs affect everyone but can be looked past with expectation that they will eventually get fixed, and the bugs affect everyone so there is no unequal advantage. Our group completed all of its goals, so we are moving on to different games. We accomplished defending the city we owned, accomplished offensive pvp wars, got a max crafter in each profession, we’re able to craft top notch gear for each other, completed all of the PvE the game has to offer. Won invasions without use of bugs. I’m our groups eyes: we beat what the game had to offer us. Time to move on to the next one! And to add to your comment. It only lasted ~850 hours played time. So not long enough :)
First it's Josh Strife Hayes, then Josh Strife Says, - then Tangent Tavern- and then Josh Strife Plays. At the rate he's going at creating new channels, he will have more channels than 5 Minute Crafts by the end of the year. Edit: Just realised Josh Strife Says isnt an official channel.
I've never played Old School Runescape, but I must say, this Group Ironman mode sounds really fun - if I could get a group together for it I'd certainly like to try.
Just single player ironman mode is a treat aswell. I started OSRS in 2018 as an ironman and now have... 4000+ hours played... lol well it being on mobile makes those numbers go up quicker too
The grind is mind-numbing and the content isn't actually geared for multiplayer until the very late game which will take you months to reach, as someone who has played both OSRS and RS3 on and off for years since 2006, along with Metin 2, SWTOR and LOTRO I can definitively tell you that the gameplay is boring and that you should dedicate your time to some other open-ended game with engaging gameplay like Arma 3, DCS, Minecraft, Starsector, Rimworld or KIlling Floor 2 just to name a few. Basically, go watch Sseth's videos, pick a game and stay away from non-innovative stale MMOs that should've died in the late 2000's.
@@davidboy45 It's boring for you but we are addicted. You either get addicted and never quit, or you think it's boring and hate it, there's no in between, and srsly, Minecraft?, why?, Bro don't demotivate people, let him try the game first.
SkyralRS did you not read the part where I said I'd played since 2006? I was addicted too, until I finally realised that there's no gameplay. You have to grind a long time for quests which in 2021 is a fucking joke, and the fact that quests are the only thing Runescape really has going for it is pathetic. Anybody who willingly grinds to see some numbers increase needs to touch grass. You're not 12 years old anymore, that shit is not "rewarding" in any way whatsoever. The only good thing about Runescape is the atmosphere and the music, problem is you spend 90% of the time afk grinding so you don't actually get to experience something new unless you dedicate several hours to mindlessly spamming left-click.
@@davidboy45 The way you talk about the game I highly doubt you have played it nearly as much as you seem to want everyone to think you have. I mean how can you think that QUESTS are all that the game has going for it? Most players HATE doing quests with a passion. They are also early game content, and people can and do finish every quest in the game within a couple of months of starting so you hardly have to "grind a long time" for quests. And why grind for anything in any game if not for numbers to go up? Either you get a higher level, you get a higher rank or you get gear with higher stat numbers and maybe some cosmetic items here and there to show off to others. What games exactly are you playing where your grind doesn't revolve around making a number get higher?
Dammit dude I want so badly to have a group like this… I don’t have any friends that like to play Ironman OSRS and it sucks. The people who always get me hooked on games end up moving onto other games shortly after and it drives me crazy.
@@cinnamonroller6405 I'm glad you asked, we were active for almost a year straight and then 4 out of the 5 took a long break. I just started playing again, one got banned and another left while the rest of us were gone but we added a 4th from the same CC. Right now two of us are active, 3rd is semi active and our 4th is still gone. It's basically become my main account since I enjoy iron so much
"With a small group of friends" - ugh. You always loose me there. I'd kill for that small group, but I don't think it's gonna happen. Good for you that can though!
I love how everyone is flexing how much fun they have with their groups and friends and I'm here like : "OK..." because I have no friends who play mmos
My issue is I LOVE runescape, but everyone I know goes "that looks boring why would you want to do that?". Everyone values fun, fast-paced and fun gameplay over the dedicated and rewarding experience of grinding through the levels and getting nice drops. The thought of splitting up roles and tasks for people to do is so awesome to me, but again the lack of desire from friends makes it tricky.
@MrDjBigZ There is an absolute abundance of single player games. There’s also an abundance of failed / stale mmo out there all trying to copy what seems to work. I mean I just got Medieval Dynasty, Pathfinder, Going Medieval, Humankind, The life and suffering of Sir Brante, Disco Elysium, and FM22 is coming soon! Thé Dark Pictures Anthology just released, got Lust from Beyond on my wishlist. AAA games are an absolute joke right now; AA is where’s at. Mmo is the best gaming experience I’ve ever had. My first game was Doom at the age of 2, nothing comes close to a well crafted mmo with devs knowing what they do, and they make a game, they genuinely wants to play.
@MrDjBigZ agree, for the love of god. The live service model is absolutely bad, at least if single player is available, even if the server is dead you can still play
Great video. I disliked the GE for so long- Still do, actually. It turns every item into some amount of gold. A dragon scimitar is no longer exciting when it's just x amount of gold, meaning it's x amount of feathers, lobsters, dragonhides, etc. I remember playing RS3 for a short while. I made a fresh account. Spider silk was a little over 1k gold in value on GE. You got it from level 2-3 spiders that had practically no chance of killing you. In what world would I do anything else, combat related, at that point of the game? I didn't have to. I could afford everything a new player would need because effectively trading allowed me to choose what that spider was dropping. If I didn't want the silk, which I did not, I just go to the grand exchange and literally exchange the drop for other items. I could runecraft, or I could kill these spiders for around 50 air runes per kill. It made any activity in the game, that wasn't high in gpm, completely redundant.
Yep I was playing RS3 for about 2 months and I never saw any reason to Runecraft when I could just sell something I can mass produce (even mining mythril and selling it is more time efficient than Runecrafting)
I played RS way back then and saw the GE arrive, and it definitely changed how the game was. Only came back recently (to rs3) and just had to go ironman. Having to explore everything on the game to be self sufficient is so fun.
@@JPG.01 It does. Another strategy game, Halo Wars, it was a niche community that played it, I was actually in the top ten worldwide for it. After a long time there were only a few devoted players left, less than 100 on a fanmade website for the game. It was so optimised that other than RNG elements, everyone did the same thing every match. If you weren't on that website, you would lose to the people who were on it. If you were on it, you were following a very strict build order, micro pattern, not having fun.
I've been loving G iron. I waited years for it. I never made an iron because I knew me and my friend would need ot start over and make G irons. I'm virtually playing solo, my friend doesnt play much. So we arent doing any roles. But I know that if he he play that we can go bossing and stuff together. VS if I was an actual solo iron, I wouldnt have the option. Best update in a long time.
Limitations - Always mentioned in terms of surprise at the way it improves something. Limitations on budget have led to some of the most creative scenes in media. Limitations on resources can lead to amazingly simplistic, yet imaginative, creations. Limitations on gameplay can lead to expanding an individual or group experience.
Josh: This video is sponsored, but don't worry, it is a good one... RUclips: actually, we believe that you would rather have interest in an Albion Online ad *RUclips plays Albion Online add* Josh: ...Honey! A youtube employee is totalling trolling you :)
Just waiting on this man to do an up-to-date video on the brilliance of GW2's open world design. Game really deserves more publicity and it's nice to hear Josh is a fellow frequent Guild Wars 2 Enjoyer.
After 10k hours in PoE, my friends and I play group iron man now, cause efficiency made us all think we didn't enjoy the game anymore. Turns out we all do enjoy the game still, its just the way we all ended up playing it after so many hours is no longer fun. Group ironman fixed that.
2:00 when you started talking about going down for the grind or buying it, reminded me of a story XD. i saw a nice backpack once whilst i was in a store didnt like the price so i got a job their worked for 2 weeks to get employee discount, bought the backpack and left.
In Guild Wars 2 community, there's these two super common sayings about getting gear that I personally really can't agree with: - Most effective way of getting gold is just to buy it with gems; - Most effective way of getting gear/materials is to farm/buy gold and then buy the gear/materials I think it's far, far more exciting to actually engage in different kinds of content and slowly work yourself to the gear you wanted. Of course GW2 does have a design approach where interacting with the tradepost is more or less mandatory. There's simply so many materials with varying drop rates that if you didn't utilize the trade post, you would have an excess in one material and a shortage in another. Since target farming is limited, there's on way to use your resource-gathering time particularly effectively. But most players should not feel like they rather buy gold and use that to get the gear they want, than that they would use time in the game world to actually get that gold through in-game needs or just to get the gear directly. What exactly is the game offering at that point, if rather than engaging with the game's content and designed way of getting stuff, you just buy the gear?
I remember playing members with my dad we still technically have our accounts but aren't playing anymore and couldn't pay for membership, walwave is still a family used name for gaming though
When I played runescape as a kid I loved it before the GE was added. I was always too scared to talk to other people since I was like 7 I had to do everything myself. I was really bad at it but I loved it when the GE was added I couldn't resist. So when Ironman was added it was amazing and felt way better actually felt like the Runescape I remembered as a kid. Also I want to try Group Ironman but that would require friends lmao
On this, me and my brother and son had a run in conan exiles on a shared private server. It had a very similar result. Zak loves building, arch smashes mobs, I like very difficult boss battles... It is just marvelous. Also the result of how hard and punishing the game can be added fear and team work that was so close to what I always wished games could be. This has a similar dynamic. I hope it becomes common
AC:NH came out. Around 4-5 of my fam played with me. At first it was fun, but between Treasure Islands, time manipulation, and Discord island hopping for turnip selling, things started to get a little nuts for some of my fam. They began to accrue bells quickly, and within two months, they had experienced all of the seasons, gotten all of the furniture, and had essentially reached "endgame". And they got bored. Due to various circs, I couldn't and wouldn't go down that path. The one time I decided to visit another person's island for turnip selling, my game glitched and I lost my island data. Since then many of my fam players have wiped their islands or restarted their games as they realized that they had destroyed the game in their mad rush to have everything NOW. As I play FFXIV, I'm glad for the one friend I have on there, but I appreciate the fact that they don't hover tons. And being a free player (for now) means that I can't trade, so stuff isn't just given to me. Working with small tight-knit groups is what makes these groups work...but also not rushing things and grabbing what you want NOW is long-term entertaining.
We've started ironmaning in EVE .. call it usually DIY tho. Can't use player markets or receive donations, build or loot everything yourself and only get stuff from others via nonconcensual pvp. It's hella fun.
I've always wanted to get into Runescape, but swore it off as a kid because of how certain content was locked behind a membership. Now...probably about 20 yrs later, I'm looking to give it another shot and group ironman is definitely tempting me.
@@Heeroneko well i really want to try it but i fear that i would feel dumb playing in iron mode since everyone on the server will be normal players who can just buy everything easy from the auction while im gonna be like a sole (duo) idiot who will be naked trying to get everything myself. Its kinda dumb. If this game at least had an ironman specific worlds it wouldnt be that awkward
@@miavelvet There are specific server's geared towards group ironman. If you use the RuneLite client to run the game it's easier to check which servers are what and how many ppl are playing on them. Some servers are pretty empty so you won't meet that many players. That said, it's a challenge mode you play for fun, it's not dumb.
@@miavelvet I wouldn't worry so much about that. People would look mighty idiotic griefing an Ironman for having less stuff than them. Or anyone really; it's just jerk behaviour, but I'd like to think that's a small percentage of people. You can also hide your equipment / stats in Runescape 3 if you want (I don't, and I love seeing people in more varied gear than only endgame stuff)
Gosh, I really want to play this game mode the way it's intended. I've played both RS3 and OSRS a lot on solo ironman mode and it's become my preferred way to play over mainscape. I've got a lot of friends who I play games with but almost nobody I know actually enjoys mmos. Let alone Runescape. Sigh... maybe one day I'll find a group of people who would dedicate the same amount of energy I would.
Oooo this made me want to play WoW, I’m doing the hardcore challenge, so no trading, auction house, mailbox, delete character if I die, etc etc. so many limitations and yet I’m seeing more of the game than ever before and having a blast.
Josh strife lifts? Looking good man, love the content and loving getting more fit! Gotta wear the "don't get in my way, you look like enough exp to level me up"
Group Ironman release was an amazing time, I slayed entire squads of friends in the wilderness trying to collect iron bars and steel platelegs. So fun.
It works because it's like pre grand-exchange runescape (best runescape). You mostly do stuff yourself, but you can specialize a bit and find trades for some essentials you might be missing, in doing so building relationships.
All MMO games should provide a mode where you're cut off from other players and don't even see them except for a selected group of people, proove me wrong.
Group Ironman is basically like playing an online RPG coop adventure, except you're not required to play together. Like... The old hack and slash ARPGs like Champions of Norrath, Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance, Fallout Brotherhood of Steel type except much more vast and you don't have to share the screen with others
This is why I think MP content will move away from MMOs (sorry Josh) - game worlds designed to be hosted for small groups to interact with. You already see it with things like Minecraft servers and Stardew Valley - game worlds you share with friends you know. The principle can be applied to a fantasy world, a spaceship or a crime-ridden city. The design limitations of MMOs are broadly relaxed - you can make permanent changes to the map, you can become overpowered, because the designer no longer has to worry about how a change will impact 100,000 players forever, just 5 players for as long as their session lasts.
Not a fan of those games but a fan of MMO's because there is no real investment or progress of importance being made. Its like an MMO if you could use cheat codes freely. They provide superior sandbox type experiences but they do not persist in any real way outside of those experiences. Its like a single player game experience with some friends. Certainly valid and fun but the reason a lot of people like MMO's is because its a multiplayer space of people gaining power through a set economy no one player has any real control over. Lots of games provide a space for "playing with friends" but MMO's are the ones that provide that as well as world of other people all under the same rules. and as Josh is laying out in this video, MMO's are entirely capable of providing those "small group" experiences as well given the proper systems are implemented.
@@neiloch I agree with you about the economy and rankings - anything requiring mass players would need to be an MMO - but I would argue that the "small group" experience available in any MMO is inferior to a game with that experience a the central design philosophy. I'm not just talking about sandboxes though - one of the key drawbacks in MMO design is that the content has to be accessible at all levels, player agency is actually minimal in most cases. This is a requirement for an MMO, as it prevents players from ruining the experience of others, but it imposes harsh limits. As this video points out, it's often a more attractive proposition to play with few people you know that a mass of strangers - because the validation of achievement means more from your friends, and if you follow that line of thought, a question arises - "What does a small group RPG look like?" and I mean RPG, not an MP sandbox or a single player game with a co-op mode tacked on. I would also strongly disagree that playing non-MMO MP is like playing with cheat codes on - that somewhat implies that as soon as a remote server authority is removed, people cannot help themselves but cheat. I'm not sure if that's what you meant, but you'll forgive me if I say it comes across as rather dismissive.
@@Aniaas1 Closer to cheat codes COULD be on. This is why I also push back on any idea of "so what if they are cheating, how does that hurt you?" in persistent online games. The mere fact its possible and being done any where devalues my experience in "progress." I'm no longer working within the scope of the game, I'm just not taking advantage of "super powers" when others are. In this same vein the idea of "made up goals" when playing video games holds no appeal to me. Its like being told to imagine my own ending for a book. I'm interacting with your media for YOU to tell ME that information and set the rules. What do you mean accessible at all levels? Because you then say MMO's are extremely restrictive. It kind of sounds like you are talking about mass appeal and easily approachable but lots of MMO's DON'T have that and are doing fine.
@@neiloch Firstly, of course I'm talking about mass appeal - my very first sentence was about the general direction of MP games. I play MMOs myself, but I'm not blind to their limitations and the kinds of players that play them. Secondly, cheating in persistent games only affects you if those other players can in any way affect you. If we were playing two separate instances of a small group game with our different friends. and my group was cheating (we wouldn't, for the record, but IF) and yours wasn't, then your experience isn't affected at all, because the only game I can ruin is my own. If you can't play a game because the knowledge that other, unconnected, people will be cheating in it then I really hope you don't play board games, because people have been cheating at those since the dawn of civilisation ;)
@@Aniaas1 You're limiting MMO scope to ones with the MOST mass appeal. Many profitable ones DON'T have mass appeal while still turning a profit and maintaining quality. There are a lot more MMO's than just FF14, wow, eso and GW2. EVE, BDO, warframe, STO, PSO2 are a few that definitely sidestep "mass appeal" and not "accessible at all levels" and are doing well if not outright thriving. And they don't need a stupid high amount of people to work well, they just need "enough" people to populate the content well in just one instance of the ecosystem. I am talking about games when they are connected mediums. Not private servers but official servers. However if there are ONLY private servers then again I feel no joy, no satisfaction from progress if I could just as easily cheat which is why I don't like them for the most part and yes it goes for board games as well. They are ONLY fun for with friends which means they are just a medium for me to play with friends and not really bringing anything unique to the joyful part of the experience. At that point the fun is simply from being with other people which leads me back to original point which is that "small group fun" is entirely possible on regular MMO's as well. The fun is playing with friends, not that its literally impossible for there to be a lot of people. MMO's can be small group games but small group games can't be MMO's. New World is an extremely recent example. The game itself bring very little content to the experience. The same quests and enemies over and over again but people are having fun. Why? Because they are playing with friends. MANY group of people started playing it at the same time with plans to do it together. Playing it as a kind of "solo, pick up" adventurer is tremendously boring.
Imo, Ironman mode is the way OSRS is supposed to be played. It requires you to interact with many more of the games systems. It is genuinely transformative
In some way, yes. In another, no. I mean, I have a lot of good memories of interacting with other people in RuneScape. Which isn't that common when you're playing IronMan mode.
Explaining how each player has different preferences and focuses on different content reminds me of some of the best time playing in Minecraft servers with my friends. Everyone bringing different skills in that game and making huge projects in the server that benefitted everyone.
Back in psychology class I read about a study on why people like playing video games. There were three main pillars: Competence, Autonomy, and Relatedness, or CAR. Competence provides enjoyment when a player sees or feels they are getting better at something. Autonomy is the feeling of being in control, to be able to do anything you wish, and Relatedness has to do with the player feeling like they're a part of a group or team. I feel like group ironman really strikes all of the pillars really well, and I think that's why it's been such a success. The ironman mode in general is pretty good for it as well (regular ironman can still join ironman-related clans, which opens up the Relatedness aspect).
I really like the sound of that, but unfortunately, none of my friends play RuneScape. (Well, some of them _have_ played it, in the past. But they don’t today.) And even if they did, they probably wouldn’t be around often enough to make it work. So I guess it’s solo Ironman for me, because it is the definitive way to play RuneScape in my opinion. I do somewhat regret doing a normal account on OSRS (although it’s meant that now I’m able to flip for gold to a point where I can easily pay for membership for free, and with very minimal work required), because I’ve had a far more enjoyable time with Ironman on RS3. Like Josh said, something is lost when you have the ability to simply go and buy the things you need/want off the Grand Exchange, rather than having to work for them “legitimately”. It’s quite ironic that I spent years of my childhood wishing I could be as rich as high-level players, and now that I have finally achieved it, the sense of accomplishment is... kind of hollow, honestly.
My only problem with Ironman (solo in my case) is that I can't do Daemonheim. Which I remember being genuinely fun content last time I played. However, without Ironman, I'd often create a TON of red spider summon pouches and scrolls. I'd stand just outside the exchange, and just spam the scrolls, and collect the eggs. It wasn't INCREDIBLY profitable. But at the time, it was certainly worth the time for me.
Holy shit now we need iron man clans! You can only trade and bank with clanmates! I can't imagine doing this with a small group of 5 I just don't grind away at the game that much anymore, which is why personally I'm stuck on rs3 for quality of life things but iron man clans in general would be so awesome imo
I have a snack bought a couple days ago just waiting to be eaten sitting within arm's reach in plain view. Along with it was a long roll of chocolate cream biscuits. Note; "was". Having to constantly remind yourself to do something, like procrastination or being repeatedly distracted for distraction's sakes, can be exhausting, but not impossible. It really a mental cost profit of which you're more willing to deplete (snacks), spend more effort on (buying snacks) or less time with (boredom), or prioritize less than to (work). If you can't make a firm decision or habit stick, find that lesser compromise you can pair that with.
wish i had friends who play runescape to play group ironman with :( i just made my ironman account right before group ironman and it's been fun rediscovering the game
I've wanted something like Group Ironman since around 2014, obviously I didn't call it Group Ironman but I wanted a trade restricted mode where you and your friends would have to get everything yourselves.
Trading is actually a bad thing in mmos imo. Items are rewards and rewards should be achieved through gameplay. That's the whole point. Making rewards available through gold makes people play the actual game less.
Im so happy about you cause Im a group player my self.Last game I had friends(and I stll do in rl) is eve online.Runescape is a lone game,lets hope thats gonna chance it all
I really did not enjoy playing a normal account too much, it's very "limited" by having the option of simply buying my way to 99's (or whatever level I need for "x" boss or diary, if there's any reason to get that anyway.) Have been playing Ironman for a few years now (ever since hardcore came out), 4500 hours later I'm still grinding and I am now a walking wikipedia for my friends, especially since Groups came out as I have actually tried out and discovered so much content in the game, because there are reasons for me to do so and it's fantastic. I never thought I'd get 99 runecrafting, but I did the other day! I have to grind slayer to obtain "x" item, not to unlock the most optimal money making method. I have to learn how to optimize killing General Graardor, because I had to get myself my Bandos items. I had to get my Mining leveled up, I wanted to unlock Amethyst arrows (and now darts) for my ranging gear, and I can use the ores I get to train my smithing, for that lumbridge elite diary so I don't have to use my dramen staff anymore and have unlimited farm teleports so I do my farming runs better so I can get my herblore up so I can get my potions to do that boss I wanted to grind for that weapon I really wanted, better and more efficiently. It's fantastic and I always have something to do, and I'm not killing the same money making boss 5000x because that's the best thing to do for money.
i was one of the guys who didn’t understand why people wanted group iron over regular iron, but i understand now. in fact i want to start group ironman now, though i’m a rs3 player and don’t have close friends who play rs xd
You hit the nail on the head by saying players choosing efficiency to get the items they want instead of doing the content itself being the reason people enjoy ironman and gim. Playing for efficiency turns a game into just work.
Ok, I've been following Runescape for a bit, and had seen Callum's video on this subject. (The quote Josh used was the first thing I thought of when watching this video.) I like the concept of both "Ironman" and "Group Ironman", but I think the real solution is to fix the game's itemization, then let people form the groups they want organically (I.E. Make friends that play together.) What's wrong with the itemization? It's inherently inflationary. I'll explain: When you get the "Sword that's 5% better than the sword I have" as a drop, what you're actually getting is the 5% that actually improves your sword, plus a fungible token valued at 100% of your sword's value. What you WANT is the 5%. But the game is structured such that it can't give you that without injecting 20 times it's value into the economy. Two things then happen... the REST of the drops are tuned to the "+20 times" scale, and "rarity", in the form of "time sink to obtain" is pushed exponentially as level increases. The inflated drops then fuel shenanigans because of all the extra cash and the desire for these long time sink items.
I gave this video a thumbs up as soon as you shared your core favorite MMOs which also align with mine. I don't see MMO content creators advocating for the GW games enough unless they are GW2-only content creators.
It honestly feels like an extended version of how people played back in the early days of original WoW. There, you'd sometimes end up forming makeshift adventure teams with people doing the same zones at the same time, go into dungeons with them, do all the group quests. That's how many friendships were formed via that game, in fact. The game was still wide open, and with how its quest limitations work, you still had to go through all of it - and with it being pretty cash-strapped and more hardcore originally, crafters and such were harder to find and many groups playing together had to fend for themselves in this regard.
found your channel yesterday and been binge watching the bad mmo videos, had no idea you played osrs too!!! love the videos man, so happy to find this chsnnel
group iron is for those highschool friends who never actually stopped playing RuneScape, myself and 3 others have been playing consistently on our GIMs for a year now and hover around the rank 900 mark
Group Ironman sounds like the way I would like to experience the game, but the main issue is having friends that also feel the same way. I switched from RS3 to OSRS, but as I have maxed account on RS3 I can grind gold there and swap it and buy anything I need on OSRS. I am missing soooo much of the game.
Hi, Josh, did you try Melvor Idle. Its like ironman runescape, but an idle game so you dont have to play it all the time, and no microtransactions? I thoroughly recommend.
I will never forget how much I love this game and it was truly a great time when it came on to the mobile. It has been a while since I could play on the computer but is it wide screen or some feature that allows your quality of the game to look so good or something like that? I just remember it looking a lot more square in dimension lol.
Great video Josh, I started a group with 4 others. They haven't logged in since we started it and I've been playing 3 of the accounts myself. It's been 2 weeks and it looks like no one is going to play :/
Different question. I started OSRS 3 Days ago and have quite fun but why does your Game look so much better? I already use Runelite is there something i am missing?
I used to play osrs and have a 110 combat main. I was looking forward to group iron man but never done iron man before as I thought id have to start again once it came out. Only problem now that's its out i have no one to play with i don't have any close friends to do this with. All my close friends don't play games anymore.
![Everything You Need to Know About Group Ironman! [OSRS]](/img/1.gif)
The real flex of playing group ironman is... "Look at me, I have friends!"
yeah i felt the same.
I am a top 500 Group Ironman, aaaaand, I am playing alone.
Friends jumped after week one but here I am doing my own Ironman all by myself.
True
And the UIM flex is not needing friends or people in general then.
@@busydadrs5608stop lying... you need more than 2.5k group total level to be top 1k 😂😂 our group is barely top 3k with a 3k group total
"and then you've got Josh, whose account is collecting dust , because he hasn't logged into it for two days!"
LOL
teamwork at it's finest :D
@@PowefulLucy Josh is the smart one. He's waiting for Callum to score phat loot and put it in the shared bank. Then Josh will be all "Yoink!"
I wonder how powerful and rare that dust is going to be in the late game of the group dynamic ;)
they should make dust and cobwebs literally appear in your inventory if you haven't logged on for a while that you can then sell or use
tell me im wrong! 😂
Callum: "...and then there's Josh, whose account is collecting dust because he hasn't logged in for two days"
Josh: "ehem... Five players sharing the responsibility of adventure! And the passion for 'teamwork' is back, baby! YEAH!!!!"
Josh, the dust collector, the most prized role in all of the world.
I think some of the appeal for Group Ironman is true nostalgia. Instead of doing the most efficient method or doing everything on your own, Group Ironman feels like what RuneScape was like before the grand exchange, when you were just a kid playing the game with no idea that trade worlds existed and you just played the game, and your friends played the game, and you only really interacted and traded with your friends.
Everything you said is true except… you didn’t know World 2 was the trade world? How could that even happen, 5-15 years old or not lol
I would say that the psychology behind group Ironman is to develop a close and intimate bond and sense of comradery between a few players. This is also why I think small group instanced content (namely 5 man) is so popular. It creates an environment for players to engage in close interpersonal interactions which are a whole lot different compared to the external superficial interactions between players in the wider server community.
Deep bonds...
*yoinks twisted bow from group chest*
*leaves group*
That’s why I love Monster Hunter: World so much.
There is no multiplayer in massive, at least it keeps requiring more and more effort to hit those levels where you are seen as a player.
I guess people call those players legends or something.
Yeah. Superficial interactions like having a max level bow user stun lock a noob to death while he’s just trying to mine rune ore. Fun times. Looooooooooove the RS community.
@@runelt99 just dont keep people like that around you brother. you come out the womb fucked up like that
I grinded out 2k cosmic runes for my friends, got a round of applause in discord..
Now thats rewarding gameplay jagex.
in the past i've played a little mmo called EUOTOPIA which is very much a Ultima inspired game; and it has a Living Off The Land mode. Basically permadeath + you cannot trade with players, buy from merchants, sell to merchants, or use the banks. You have to find or make everything yourself and carry everything you own, it was a pretty great experience.
I become enthralled whenever Josh spills lusty comments about how awesome OSRS is. Me getting excited about RunEscape while he's getting excited about RunEscape.
This is exactly how my friends and I took New World. One of us is the fisher. I'm the miner/blacksmith. One is the woodcutter/furniture maker. One is the engineer / silk / leather collector.
Working together to achieve eachother's goals of gaining power for the group is the greatest feeling, because we all benefit from it. That old school feeling of tackling the world together is one of the best feelings obtainable in an online MMO setting, and it's why New World is thriving for the lot of us.
@calabro boy and your bad ;)
I'm guessing that feeling didn't last very long; or are ya'll part of the dedicated group holding out for one more hotfix?
@@randzopyr1038 we actually stopped playing this week. Bugs affect everyone but can be looked past with expectation that they will eventually get fixed, and the bugs affect everyone so there is no unequal advantage.
Our group completed all of its goals, so we are moving on to different games. We accomplished defending the city we owned, accomplished offensive pvp wars, got a max crafter in each profession, we’re able to craft top notch gear for each other, completed all of the PvE the game has to offer. Won invasions without use of bugs.
I’m our groups eyes: we beat what the game had to offer us. Time to move on to the next one!
And to add to your comment. It only lasted ~850 hours played time. So not long enough :)
Ok commie.
I See. It’s Josh Strife GAINZ now. 💪🏻💪🏻
With enough gains, he'll have to go by Josh Swole Hayes.
@@joelbaker9366 Josh Wide Hayes, and then before you know it there will be a Josh Wife Hayes.
First it's Josh Strife Hayes, then Josh Strife Says, - then Tangent Tavern- and then Josh Strife Plays. At the rate he's going at creating new channels, he will have more channels than 5 Minute Crafts by the end of the year.
Edit: Just realised Josh Strife Says isnt an official channel.
@@rayvg7709 Can't forget what RUclips closed captioning says his name is. I can hardly wait for the Josh Dry Face channel.
Buff Strife Hayes
I've never played Old School Runescape, but I must say, this Group Ironman mode sounds really fun - if I could get a group together for it I'd certainly like to try.
Just single player ironman mode is a treat aswell. I started OSRS in 2018 as an ironman and now have... 4000+ hours played... lol well it being on mobile makes those numbers go up quicker too
The grind is mind-numbing and the content isn't actually geared for multiplayer until the very late game which will take you months to reach, as someone who has played both OSRS and RS3 on and off for years since 2006, along with Metin 2, SWTOR and LOTRO I can definitively tell you that the gameplay is boring and that you should dedicate your time to some other open-ended game with engaging gameplay like Arma 3, DCS, Minecraft, Starsector, Rimworld or KIlling Floor 2 just to name a few. Basically, go watch Sseth's videos, pick a game and stay away from non-innovative stale MMOs that should've died in the late 2000's.
@@davidboy45
It's boring for you but we are addicted.
You either get addicted and never quit, or you think it's boring and hate it, there's no in between, and srsly, Minecraft?, why?, Bro don't demotivate people, let him try the game first.
SkyralRS did you not read the part where I said I'd played since 2006? I was addicted too, until I finally realised that there's no gameplay. You have to grind a long time for quests which in 2021 is a fucking joke, and the fact that quests are the only thing Runescape really has going for it is pathetic. Anybody who willingly grinds to see some numbers increase needs to touch grass. You're not 12 years old anymore, that shit is not "rewarding" in any way whatsoever. The only good thing about Runescape is the atmosphere and the music, problem is you spend 90% of the time afk grinding so you don't actually get to experience something new unless you dedicate several hours to mindlessly spamming left-click.
@@davidboy45 The way you talk about the game I highly doubt you have played it nearly as much as you seem to want everyone to think you have. I mean how can you think that QUESTS are all that the game has going for it? Most players HATE doing quests with a passion. They are also early game content, and people can and do finish every quest in the game within a couple of months of starting so you hardly have to "grind a long time" for quests. And why grind for anything in any game if not for numbers to go up? Either you get a higher level, you get a higher rank or you get gear with higher stat numbers and maybe some cosmetic items here and there to show off to others. What games exactly are you playing where your grind doesn't revolve around making a number get higher?
Dammit dude I want so badly to have a group like this… I don’t have any friends that like to play Ironman OSRS and it sucks. The people who always get me hooked on games end up moving onto other games shortly after and it drives me crazy.
Join a public chat channel and hang around for a while talking to people, thats how I found my awesome group
The OSRS discord has a group finder :)
@@BecomeBenifiedhow’s it going nowadays?
@@cinnamonroller6405 I'm glad you asked, we were active for almost a year straight and then 4 out of the 5 took a long break. I just started playing again, one got banned and another left while the rest of us were gone but we added a 4th from the same CC. Right now two of us are active, 3rd is semi active and our 4th is still gone. It's basically become my main account since I enjoy iron so much
I want to play group ironman if there's people who need someone.
This is exactly the "first time experience" all games need. Those moments when we don't know a lot about the game and just...play it.
"With a small group of friends" - ugh. You always loose me there. I'd kill for that small group, but I don't think it's gonna happen.
Good for you that can though!
I love how everyone is flexing how much fun they have with their groups and friends and I'm here like : "OK..." because I have no friends who play mmos
The Kargoz-style "Hardcore" challenge in vanilla/Classic WoW has these vibes too
"You never quit RS, you just take really long breaks." ~ Some dude in rune
More people should try and actually take the time to understand the adventure of osrs. Has the most heart of any game I've ever played
My issue is I LOVE runescape, but everyone I know goes "that looks boring why would you want to do that?". Everyone values fun, fast-paced and fun gameplay over the dedicated and rewarding experience of grinding through the levels and getting nice drops. The thought of splitting up roles and tasks for people to do is so awesome to me, but again the lack of desire from friends makes it tricky.
Me and my buddies always play like this when we play MMORPGs. Now I have a name for our style of play: "Group Iron man mode" 😆
Need more mmos following the formula and freedom of RuneScape and Ultima.
@MrDjBigZ There is an absolute abundance of single player games. There’s also an abundance of failed / stale mmo out there all trying to copy what seems to work.
I mean I just got Medieval Dynasty, Pathfinder, Going Medieval, Humankind, The life and suffering of Sir Brante, Disco Elysium, and FM22 is coming soon! Thé Dark Pictures Anthology just released, got Lust from Beyond on my wishlist. AAA games are an absolute joke right now; AA is where’s at.
Mmo is the best gaming experience I’ve ever had. My first game was Doom at the age of 2, nothing comes close to a well crafted mmo with devs knowing what they do, and they make a game, they genuinely wants to play.
@MrDjBigZ agree, for the love of god. The live service model is absolutely bad, at least if single player is available, even if the server is dead you can still play
Great video. I disliked the GE for so long- Still do, actually.
It turns every item into some amount of gold. A dragon scimitar is no longer exciting when it's just x amount of gold, meaning it's x amount of feathers, lobsters, dragonhides, etc.
I remember playing RS3 for a short while. I made a fresh account. Spider silk was a little over 1k gold in value on GE. You got it from level 2-3 spiders that had practically no chance of killing you.
In what world would I do anything else, combat related, at that point of the game? I didn't have to. I could afford everything a new player would need because effectively trading allowed me to choose what that spider was dropping. If I didn't want the silk, which I did not, I just go to the grand exchange and literally exchange the drop for other items.
I could runecraft, or I could kill these spiders for around 50 air runes per kill.
It made any activity in the game, that wasn't high in gpm, completely redundant.
Yep I was playing RS3 for about 2 months and I never saw any reason to Runecraft when I could just sell something I can mass produce (even mining mythril and selling it is more time efficient than Runecrafting)
"Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of your game" - Soren Johnson , Designer of Civ 4.
That quote seems to hold true.
I played RS way back then and saw the GE arrive, and it definitely changed how the game was. Only came back recently (to rs3) and just had to go ironman. Having to explore everything on the game to be self sufficient is so fun.
@@JPG.01 It does. Another strategy game, Halo Wars, it was a niche community that played it, I was actually in the top ten worldwide for it. After a long time there were only a few devoted players left, less than 100 on a fanmade website for the game.
It was so optimised that other than RNG elements, everyone did the same thing every match. If you weren't on that website, you would lose to the people who were on it. If you were on it, you were following a very strict build order, micro pattern, not having fun.
I liked trading, I liked that everything had some value.
I disliked how easy the GE made trading.
This sounds cool as heck, would love to see this spread out as a common thing across other MMOs.
Agreed! More MMOs should have the standard ironman mode too.
I've been loving G iron. I waited years for it. I never made an iron because I knew me and my friend would need ot start over and make G irons. I'm virtually playing solo, my friend doesnt play much. So we arent doing any roles. But I know that if he he play that we can go bossing and stuff together. VS if I was an actual solo iron, I wouldnt have the option. Best update in a long time.
Limitations - Always mentioned in terms of surprise at the way it improves something. Limitations on budget have led to some of the most creative scenes in media. Limitations on resources can lead to amazingly simplistic, yet imaginative, creations. Limitations on gameplay can lead to expanding an individual or group experience.
Like in Thief. Not giving those games viable combat options is why the first 2 games were so good.
Josh: This video is sponsored, but don't worry, it is a good one...
RUclips: actually, we believe that you would rather have interest in an Albion Online ad
*RUclips plays Albion Online add*
Josh: ...Honey!
A youtube employee is totalling trolling you :)
albion online looks kinda bad and i dont want to see the ad anymore :(
@@thewhatwhat12333 only for u, it does not show it for everyone
@@d4s0n282 im aware
Just waiting on this man to do an up-to-date video on the brilliance of GW2's open world design. Game really deserves more publicity and it's nice to hear Josh is a fellow frequent Guild Wars 2 Enjoyer.
After 10k hours in PoE, my friends and I play group iron man now, cause efficiency made us all think we didn't enjoy the game anymore. Turns out we all do enjoy the game still, its just the way we all ended up playing it after so many hours is no longer fun. Group ironman fixed that.
Group iron man in poe sounds awesome.
@BaxiTube solo self found is very popular. Not sure what you mean bro. Been playing poe since it had 2 acts
until you all go for max cape... then efficiency becomes near mendatory -_-;
@No Peaceful Solotions Anymore You meant trading, not crafting?
That video when osrs graphics in the game play footage looks better than camera recorded footage :D
2:00 when you started talking about going down for the grind or buying it, reminded me of a story XD. i saw a nice backpack once whilst i was in a store didnt like the price so i got a job their worked for 2 weeks to get employee discount, bought the backpack and left.
"...because he hasn't logged into it for two days..."
Hey now, don't you know finding dungeon dates and killing ice cream cones is serious business?
In Guild Wars 2 community, there's these two super common sayings about getting gear that I personally really can't agree with:
- Most effective way of getting gold is just to buy it with gems;
- Most effective way of getting gear/materials is to farm/buy gold and then buy the gear/materials
I think it's far, far more exciting to actually engage in different kinds of content and slowly work yourself to the gear you wanted.
Of course GW2 does have a design approach where interacting with the tradepost is more or less mandatory. There's simply so many materials with varying drop rates that if you didn't utilize the trade post, you would have an excess in one material and a shortage in another. Since target farming is limited, there's on way to use your resource-gathering time particularly effectively.
But most players should not feel like they rather buy gold and use that to get the gear they want, than that they would use time in the game world to actually get that gold through in-game needs or just to get the gear directly. What exactly is the game offering at that point, if rather than engaging with the game's content and designed way of getting stuff, you just buy the gear?
I remember playing members with my dad we still technically have our accounts but aren't playing anymore and couldn't pay for membership, walwave is still a family used name for gaming though
Normal account: MMORPG
Ironman account: Singleplayer RPG
Group Ironman account: Co-op RPG
When I played runescape as a kid I loved it before the GE was added. I was always too scared to talk to other people since I was like 7 I had to do everything myself. I was really bad at it but I loved it when the GE was added I couldn't resist. So when Ironman was added it was amazing and felt way better actually felt like the Runescape I remembered as a kid. Also I want to try Group Ironman but that would require friends lmao
On this, me and my brother and son had a run in conan exiles on a shared private server. It had a very similar result. Zak loves building, arch smashes mobs, I like very difficult boss battles... It is just marvelous. Also the result of how hard and punishing the game can be added fear and team work that was so close to what I always wished games could be. This has a similar dynamic. I hope it becomes common
AC:NH came out. Around 4-5 of my fam played with me. At first it was fun, but between Treasure Islands, time manipulation, and Discord island hopping for turnip selling, things started to get a little nuts for some of my fam. They began to accrue bells quickly, and within two months, they had experienced all of the seasons, gotten all of the furniture, and had essentially reached "endgame". And they got bored. Due to various circs, I couldn't and wouldn't go down that path. The one time I decided to visit another person's island for turnip selling, my game glitched and I lost my island data. Since then many of my fam players have wiped their islands or restarted their games as they realized that they had destroyed the game in their mad rush to have everything NOW.
As I play FFXIV, I'm glad for the one friend I have on there, but I appreciate the fact that they don't hover tons. And being a free player (for now) means that I can't trade, so stuff isn't just given to me. Working with small tight-knit groups is what makes these groups work...but also not rushing things and grabbing what you want NOW is long-term entertaining.
We've started ironmaning in EVE .. call it usually DIY tho. Can't use player markets or receive donations, build or loot everything yourself and only get stuff from others via nonconcensual pvp. It's hella fun.
I've always wanted to get into Runescape, but swore it off as a kid because of how certain content was locked behind a membership. Now...probably about 20 yrs later, I'm looking to give it another shot and group ironman is definitely tempting me.
so did you like it?
@@miavelvet I've been enjoying playing it casually. Still trying to convince my friends to do group ironman w me tho. XD
@@Heeroneko well i really want to try it but i fear that i would feel dumb playing in iron mode since everyone on the server will be normal players who can just buy everything easy from the auction while im gonna be like a sole (duo) idiot who will be naked trying to get everything myself. Its kinda dumb. If this game at least had an ironman specific worlds it wouldnt be that awkward
@@miavelvet There are specific server's geared towards group ironman. If you use the RuneLite client to run the game it's easier to check which servers are what and how many ppl are playing on them. Some servers are pretty empty so you won't meet that many players. That said, it's a challenge mode you play for fun, it's not dumb.
@@miavelvet I wouldn't worry so much about that. People would look mighty idiotic griefing an Ironman for having less stuff than them.
Or anyone really; it's just jerk behaviour, but I'd like to think that's a small percentage of people.
You can also hide your equipment / stats in Runescape 3 if you want (I don't, and I love seeing people in more varied gear than only endgame stuff)
Gosh, I really want to play this game mode the way it's intended. I've played both RS3 and OSRS a lot on solo ironman mode and it's become my preferred way to play over mainscape. I've got a lot of friends who I play games with but almost nobody I know actually enjoys mmos. Let alone Runescape. Sigh... maybe one day I'll find a group of people who would dedicate the same amount of energy I would.
Sounds amazing, I wish I had friends that played this
Oooo this made me want to play WoW, I’m doing the hardcore challenge, so no trading, auction house, mailbox, delete character if I die, etc etc. so many limitations and yet I’m seeing more of the game than ever before and having a blast.
Josh strife lifts? Looking good man, love the content and loving getting more fit! Gotta wear the "don't get in my way, you look like enough exp to level me up"
Seems like a fully-fledged version of the Dungeoneering minigame.
Group Ironman release was an amazing time, I slayed entire squads of friends in the wilderness trying to collect iron bars and steel platelegs. So fun.
Seeing your upload is always a pleasure.
It works because it's like pre grand-exchange runescape (best runescape). You mostly do stuff yourself, but you can specialize a bit and find trades for some essentials you might be missing, in doing so building relationships.
All MMO games should provide a mode where you're cut off from other players and don't even see them except for a selected group of people, proove me wrong.
My favorite MMO guy, thank you for keeping guild wars 1 in the core list.
I love the dynamic between Callum and Josh, especially since both can be so petty
Group Ironman is basically like playing an online RPG coop adventure, except you're not required to play together. Like... The old hack and slash ARPGs like Champions of Norrath, Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance, Fallout Brotherhood of Steel type except much more vast and you don't have to share the screen with others
I named these games specifically because they are the ones I always loved and played most
This is why I think MP content will move away from MMOs (sorry Josh) - game worlds designed to be hosted for small groups to interact with. You already see it with things like Minecraft servers and Stardew Valley - game worlds you share with friends you know. The principle can be applied to a fantasy world, a spaceship or a crime-ridden city. The design limitations of MMOs are broadly relaxed - you can make permanent changes to the map, you can become overpowered, because the designer no longer has to worry about how a change will impact 100,000 players forever, just 5 players for as long as their session lasts.
Not a fan of those games but a fan of MMO's because there is no real investment or progress of importance being made. Its like an MMO if you could use cheat codes freely. They provide superior sandbox type experiences but they do not persist in any real way outside of those experiences. Its like a single player game experience with some friends.
Certainly valid and fun but the reason a lot of people like MMO's is because its a multiplayer space of people gaining power through a set economy no one player has any real control over. Lots of games provide a space for "playing with friends" but MMO's are the ones that provide that as well as world of other people all under the same rules. and as Josh is laying out in this video, MMO's are entirely capable of providing those "small group" experiences as well given the proper systems are implemented.
@@neiloch I agree with you about the economy and rankings - anything requiring mass players would need to be an MMO - but I would argue that the "small group" experience available in any MMO is inferior to a game with that experience a the central design philosophy. I'm not just talking about sandboxes though - one of the key drawbacks in MMO design is that the content has to be accessible at all levels, player agency is actually minimal in most cases. This is a requirement for an MMO, as it prevents players from ruining the experience of others, but it imposes harsh limits.
As this video points out, it's often a more attractive proposition to play with few people you know that a mass of strangers - because the validation of achievement means more from your friends, and if you follow that line of thought, a question arises - "What does a small group RPG look like?" and I mean RPG, not an MP sandbox or a single player game with a co-op mode tacked on.
I would also strongly disagree that playing non-MMO MP is like playing with cheat codes on - that somewhat implies that as soon as a remote server authority is removed, people cannot help themselves but cheat. I'm not sure if that's what you meant, but you'll forgive me if I say it comes across as rather dismissive.
@@Aniaas1 Closer to cheat codes COULD be on. This is why I also push back on any idea of "so what if they are cheating, how does that hurt you?" in persistent online games. The mere fact its possible and being done any where devalues my experience in "progress." I'm no longer working within the scope of the game, I'm just not taking advantage of "super powers" when others are.
In this same vein the idea of "made up goals" when playing video games holds no appeal to me. Its like being told to imagine my own ending for a book. I'm interacting with your media for YOU to tell ME that information and set the rules.
What do you mean accessible at all levels? Because you then say MMO's are extremely restrictive. It kind of sounds like you are talking about mass appeal and easily approachable but lots of MMO's DON'T have that and are doing fine.
@@neiloch Firstly, of course I'm talking about mass appeal - my very first sentence was about the general direction of MP games. I play MMOs myself, but I'm not blind to their limitations and the kinds of players that play them.
Secondly, cheating in persistent games only affects you if those other players can in any way affect you. If we were playing two separate instances of a small group game with our different friends. and my group was cheating (we wouldn't, for the record, but IF) and yours wasn't, then your experience isn't affected at all, because the only game I can ruin is my own.
If you can't play a game because the knowledge that other, unconnected, people will be cheating in it then I really hope you don't play board games, because people have been cheating at those since the dawn of civilisation ;)
@@Aniaas1 You're limiting MMO scope to ones with the MOST mass appeal. Many profitable ones DON'T have mass appeal while still turning a profit and maintaining quality. There are a lot more MMO's than just FF14, wow, eso and GW2. EVE, BDO, warframe, STO, PSO2 are a few that definitely sidestep "mass appeal" and not "accessible at all levels" and are doing well if not outright thriving. And they don't need a stupid high amount of people to work well, they just need "enough" people to populate the content well in just one instance of the ecosystem.
I am talking about games when they are connected mediums. Not private servers but official servers. However if there are ONLY private servers then again I feel no joy, no satisfaction from progress if I could just as easily cheat which is why I don't like them for the most part and yes it goes for board games as well. They are ONLY fun for with friends which means they are just a medium for me to play with friends and not really bringing anything unique to the joyful part of the experience.
At that point the fun is simply from being with other people which leads me back to original point which is that "small group fun" is entirely possible on regular MMO's as well. The fun is playing with friends, not that its literally impossible for there to be a lot of people. MMO's can be small group games but small group games can't be MMO's.
New World is an extremely recent example. The game itself bring very little content to the experience. The same quests and enemies over and over again but people are having fun. Why? Because they are playing with friends. MANY group of people started playing it at the same time with plans to do it together. Playing it as a kind of "solo, pick up" adventurer is tremendously boring.
One of these days we need to see your mug collection.
Imo, Ironman mode is the way OSRS is supposed to be played. It requires you to interact with many more of the games systems. It is genuinely transformative
Only if they play using the vanilla client.
In some way, yes. In another, no. I mean, I have a lot of good memories of interacting with other people in RuneScape. Which isn't that common when you're playing IronMan mode.
Great video, sounds like a ton of fun too. Wish I had friends who played runescape lol!
Explaining how each player has different preferences and focuses on different content reminds me of some of the best time playing in Minecraft servers with my friends. Everyone bringing different skills in that game and making huge projects in the server that benefitted everyone.
Back in psychology class I read about a study on why people like playing video games. There were three main pillars: Competence, Autonomy, and Relatedness, or CAR. Competence provides enjoyment when a player sees or feels they are getting better at something. Autonomy is the feeling of being in control, to be able to do anything you wish, and Relatedness has to do with the player feeling like they're a part of a group or team.
I feel like group ironman really strikes all of the pillars really well, and I think that's why it's been such a success. The ironman mode in general is pretty good for it as well (regular ironman can still join ironman-related clans, which opens up the Relatedness aspect).
I still remember C Strife 16, I had you added back in 2009, didn't realise you still play
I really like the sound of that, but unfortunately, none of my friends play RuneScape. (Well, some of them _have_ played it, in the past. But they don’t today.) And even if they did, they probably wouldn’t be around often enough to make it work.
So I guess it’s solo Ironman for me, because it is the definitive way to play RuneScape in my opinion. I do somewhat regret doing a normal account on OSRS (although it’s meant that now I’m able to flip for gold to a point where I can easily pay for membership for free, and with very minimal work required), because I’ve had a far more enjoyable time with Ironman on RS3. Like Josh said, something is lost when you have the ability to simply go and buy the things you need/want off the Grand Exchange, rather than having to work for them “legitimately”. It’s quite ironic that I spent years of my childhood wishing I could be as rich as high-level players, and now that I have finally achieved it, the sense of accomplishment is... kind of hollow, honestly.
"Pride and accomplishment" Har har. We see what you did there.
My only problem with Ironman (solo in my case) is that I can't do Daemonheim. Which I remember being genuinely fun content last time I played.
However, without Ironman, I'd often create a TON of red spider summon pouches and scrolls. I'd stand just outside the exchange, and just spam the scrolls, and collect the eggs. It wasn't INCREDIBLY profitable. But at the time, it was certainly worth the time for me.
Holy shit now we need iron man clans! You can only trade and bank with clanmates!
I can't imagine doing this with a small group of 5 I just don't grind away at the game that much anymore, which is why personally I'm stuck on rs3 for quality of life things but iron man clans in general would be so awesome imo
I have a snack bought a couple days ago just waiting to be eaten sitting within arm's reach in plain view. Along with it was a long roll of chocolate cream biscuits. Note; "was".
Having to constantly remind yourself to do something, like procrastination or being repeatedly distracted for distraction's sakes, can be exhausting, but not impossible. It really a mental cost profit of which you're more willing to deplete (snacks), spend more effort on (buying snacks) or less time with (boredom), or prioritize less than to (work). If you can't make a firm decision or habit stick, find that lesser compromise you can pair that with.
The feeling of the coffee cup is not very natural, dear handsome man. And thanks for the quality content
wish i had friends who play runescape to play group ironman with :( i just made my ironman account right before group ironman and it's been fun rediscovering the game
I've wanted something like Group Ironman since around 2014, obviously I didn't call it Group Ironman but I wanted a trade restricted mode where you and your friends would have to get everything yourselves.
I LOVE that mug, where did you get it? Thanks for the awesome videos, brother!
Would love an update on the group!
Trading is actually a bad thing in mmos imo. Items are rewards and rewards should be achieved through gameplay. That's the whole point. Making rewards available through gold makes people play the actual game less.
Bold of Jagex to assume I have friends who want to play Runescape lol
Im so happy about you cause Im a group player my self.Last game I had friends(and I stll do in rl) is eve online.Runescape is a lone game,lets hope thats gonna chance it all
I really did not enjoy playing a normal account too much, it's very "limited" by having the option of simply buying my way to 99's (or whatever level I need for "x" boss or diary, if there's any reason to get that anyway.)
Have been playing Ironman for a few years now (ever since hardcore came out), 4500 hours later I'm still grinding and I am now a walking wikipedia for my friends, especially since Groups came out as I have actually tried out and discovered so much content in the game, because there are reasons for me to do so and it's fantastic.
I never thought I'd get 99 runecrafting, but I did the other day! I have to grind slayer to obtain "x" item, not to unlock the most optimal money making method. I have to learn how to optimize killing General Graardor, because I had to get myself my Bandos items. I had to get my Mining leveled up, I wanted to unlock Amethyst arrows (and now darts) for my ranging gear, and I can use the ores I get to train my smithing, for that lumbridge elite diary so I don't have to use my dramen staff anymore and have unlimited farm teleports so I do my farming runs better so I can get my herblore up so I can get my potions to do that boss I wanted to grind for that weapon I really wanted, better and more efficiently.
It's fantastic and I always have something to do, and I'm not killing the same money making boss 5000x because that's the best thing to do for money.
i was one of the guys who didn’t understand why people wanted group iron over regular iron, but i understand now. in fact i want to start group ironman now, though i’m a rs3 player and don’t have close friends who play rs xd
You hit the nail on the head by saying players choosing efficiency to get the items they want instead of doing the content itself being the reason people enjoy ironman and gim. Playing for efficiency turns a game into just work.
And using RL is letting the client tell you the most efficient way to play..lol
@@BigPoppa-Monk runelite doesn't tell you the most efficient way to play, what do you mean?
Love your content! Finally subbed
Ok, I've been following Runescape for a bit, and had seen Callum's video on this subject. (The quote Josh used was the first thing I thought of when watching this video.) I like the concept of both "Ironman" and "Group Ironman", but I think the real solution is to fix the game's itemization, then let people form the groups they want organically (I.E. Make friends that play together.)
What's wrong with the itemization? It's inherently inflationary. I'll explain: When you get the "Sword that's 5% better than the sword I have" as a drop, what you're actually getting is the 5% that actually improves your sword, plus a fungible token valued at 100% of your sword's value. What you WANT is the 5%. But the game is structured such that it can't give you that without injecting 20 times it's value into the economy. Two things then happen... the REST of the drops are tuned to the "+20 times" scale, and "rarity", in the form of "time sink to obtain" is pushed exponentially as level increases. The inflated drops then fuel shenanigans because of all the extra cash and the desire for these long time sink items.
I gave this video a thumbs up as soon as you shared your core favorite MMOs which also align with mine. I don't see MMO content creators advocating for the GW games enough unless they are GW2-only content creators.
A feature I wanted for many many many years. I got it, so late that none of my friends do anything like this together anymore.
It’s about having friends that’ll actually play RuneScape with you
Wow I want to see more games do this a long with an emphasis on crafting/gathering professions so everyone is more than just their class
I've been LOVING group ironman as well
It honestly feels like an extended version of how people played back in the early days of original WoW. There, you'd sometimes end up forming makeshift adventure teams with people doing the same zones at the same time, go into dungeons with them, do all the group quests. That's how many friendships were formed via that game, in fact. The game was still wide open, and with how its quest limitations work, you still had to go through all of it - and with it being pretty cash-strapped and more hardcore originally, crafters and such were harder to find and many groups playing together had to fend for themselves in this regard.
found your channel yesterday and been binge watching the bad mmo videos, had no idea you played osrs too!!! love the videos man, so happy to find this chsnnel
Great form on those workouts!
group iron is for those highschool friends who never actually stopped playing RuneScape, myself and 3 others have been playing consistently on our GIMs for a year now and hover around the rank 900 mark
Group Ironman sounds like the way I would like to experience the game, but the main issue is having friends that also feel the same way. I switched from RS3 to OSRS, but as I have maxed account on RS3 I can grind gold there and swap it and buy anything I need on OSRS. I am missing soooo much of the game.
OMG this is the first time seeing the face of the voice. . . It's crazy how much appearance and expectation changes from just one peek
A year later, were at end game, everyone is fully geared bc did 1.4k bandos kc solo as they havent logged in for 8 months. Things are great
You’re a great OSRS RUclipsr man, I haven’t subscribed to one in a while! ♥️
No meal will ever taste as good as the meal you work hard to make yourself from scratch.
Hi, Josh, did you try Melvor Idle. Its like ironman runescape, but an idle game so you dont have to play it all the time, and no microtransactions? I thoroughly recommend.
This is quite an interesting concept.
I will never forget how much I love this game and it was truly a great time when it came on to the mobile. It has been a while since I could play on the computer but is it wide screen or some feature that allows your quality of the game to look so good or something like that? I just remember it looking a lot more square in dimension lol.
i'm very glad that josh explains why ironman modes are ACTUALLY playing the game and content and not just gold farming simulator 2007
Great video Josh, I started a group with 4 others. They haven't logged in since we started it and I've been playing 3 of the accounts myself. It's been 2 weeks and it looks like no one is going to play :/
Different question. I started OSRS 3 Days ago and have quite fun but why does your Game look so much better? I already use Runelite is there something i am missing?
shoutout to b0aty for his One Man Army series that essentially inspired the ironman modes
I used to play osrs and have a 110 combat main. I was looking forward to group iron man but never done iron man before as I thought id have to start again once it came out. Only problem now that's its out i have no one to play with i don't have any close friends to do this with. All my close friends don't play games anymore.
Tried to get some friends to jump into group ironman, but no takers, guess it's solo ironman for me!