14c28n steel - extreme edge, extreme performance! To the macks
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- Опубликовано: 15 июн 2018
- cedric-ada-store.creator-spri...
Good gravy its bricky on things
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All these years on now dude and you’re still killing it. You’re one of the few places people can go to see real world use, torture, and the experiments we all wish we were brave enough to attempt with our knives haha. I’m always tuned in for what’s next. Keep rockin dude 🔥
Ranger Jon Outdoors haha thanks man, im seldom too scared to not let my curiousity get the best of me!
I'm still coming back to reference these tests!
Please bring back this type of content. I love this unleashed series. Seeing what these crazy angles can do is incredibly interesting and useful information that I don't see other RUclipsrs offering.
It's ridiculous how good 14c28n can be. And the ~$50 tag on a lot of the blades is a great bargain for the performance. I love my elementum button lock in 14c28n
I wish there were more from this series. Seeing the max angle you can achieve and how it performs is so incredibly interesting and no one else does tests like this that I can find. This is my favorite content from you!
Dude, you are my hero!!! Mr. Sharp, never dull!!! "Never hand a man a sword (or a knife) to a man that cant dance!"
Stealing it, bruh 😇
Some of the editing flourishes are so simple and easy, taking virtually no time; others can be surprisingly complex and time-consuming. They all add a great touch to the videos to make them stand out, so I love that you go to the effort.
I love these videos please keep it up. I have been putting ridiculous convex edges on cheap steels like an Opinel carbon, a svord peasant, and a 12c27 for the last year or so. I just use wet/dry sandpaper and a strop or mouse pad. Cheaper steels are mostly easy to grind. I got the idea from a Japanese vg-10 damascus kitchen knife I bought. It was super thin and had a very skinny convex edge. It cut so well and was way more durable than I expected.
Another great test and I can't believe the difference a micro bevel can make.thanks again for your time.atb paddy😀☘👍
Good ole stabby bird shirt, ive got my mug currently sipping on some girley coffee.... Impressive test results, and i like that bit at the end adding wood cutting as a variable.
Girly coffee? You mean like POSTUM? (Postum hell! I put 'em everywhere!"
Not a coffee guy anyway, ever, except for espresso. I'm an Irish Breakfast Tea nut.
William Burke I went through a tea phase how ever i never learned how to prepare a proper cup of tea... perhaps its time to revisit this brief romance that occupied my early mid 20s.
I'm a lazy effer (or it may be an "art form", who knows?) and I go with tea bags only. With Irish Breakfast Teas, it's pretty straightforward: milk (or cream) and sugar. They're very malty and too bitter to drink unaccompanied for most folks. At one time I had 18 different varieties but I got over that. I roll with about 6 varieties now.
William Burke sounds like my cup of tea!
😔...... sorry that was to easy.
But it sounds rather nice. Thats how i dronk my coffee.
my favorite steel its so elegant
Yay! Thar was my first flipper! It actually a great little knife..So glad to see it on your show!🤙
It's the stabby bird! I'm ordering one next week, and a coffee mug.
Another great vid. Yours are the only of the "knife suscribers" vids my gf will watch with me. Loving this max series!
Love your videos! I love that I recognized the black mage village theme. Definitely earned me as a subscriber!
Got 5 knives in 14C. Now I feel even more like a boss. A cool steel, seriously
The JoJo "to be continued" was used perfectly. Awesome job.
Good stuff. Thanks for all you put out there.
And the edge didn’t instantly die on the wood! I feel quite smug and vindicated lol. Thanks Cedric! I was a little bit nervous about everything I was saying on the other videos lol.
So , this is what BORED steel guys do . I LOVE IT .... Keep it up the good work .
Impressive.. and a nice shout out to Frankie and Bird..
Very interesting, Pete. Clearly some geometry at work here. It seems pretty clear that there's are thinness to height to hardness ratios at play that determine when a steel will roll. Pretty clear the micro-bevel gets the geometry below that rolling point by changing the height to thickness ration right at the edge.
I have that knife, it is an amazing slicer with that long full grind. Glad to know it can handle a 12-degree edge!
Exactly what I wanted to know. Thanks a bunch and good job.
14c28n is one of the most surprising steel available, normally I prefer stainless with more carbon but Sandvik shows that there are also other important things (finer grains, better internal structure... I am not a metallurgy expert).
It takes a super keen edge, ultra polished, very easily... can be used to make straight razors probably (real razors), in the stainless family: one of the most pleasent to sharpen.
Off course it needs a good heat treatment and geometries like any other steel.
Definitely a keeper.
😃👍
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This is why I love thinly ground knives. I have an Elmax Para2 Krein regrind, it's about 5 thou behind the edge. A 15dps edge looks like a wide micro bevel and its so much easier to sharpen since there's less steel. And I rough cut wood with it and even chopped through a 1.5-2 inch branch(took about 5 minutes since its an under 4oz folder) and the edge was fine, still hair widdling. I wish more companies ground their knives thin, Microtech does a decent job on some models and a few knives from other makers will be in the 10-15 thou range but that's rare. They cut so much better too, just falls through rope and cardboard.
Impressive! That Sandvik is great steel. The best all-rounder of the 'budget' steels. That bird looks like it has a stiffy in some of the framing.
Rex next lol! D2/154cm?
Called it! I predicted it would hit 200 cuts. I am SO putting 15° degree edges on my pocket knives. With a little stropping.
It's well known that edge geometry plays an important role in a knife's performance but I don't think the average user appreciates just how much. I certainly didn't. Keep up the good work. Videos like this are a big help for us average Joe knife enthusiasts who know next to nothing about the finer details of knife performance.
Geometry is more important then the steel. Why Buck for example does so well with simple 420hc steel.
Thanks for this excellent edge retention tests. YOu provide very good and usefull data! I would also be interested in a "12C27 Sandvik unleashed to the max" test. It should be a steel that works well with those extreme angles.
Yes! For that Fragile edge Roundabout the cutting board. :)
Unleashed: All your steels are belong to us!
Brad Griffin we have set us up the edge
I Recently Bought a Garberg Carbon and Bushcraft Orange,The Orange Keeps its Edge much better in Basic Wood Whittling,but the Garbergs Carbon is Renowned for low abrasion resistance!!! Thing is I Suspect the Orange is Using 14c28n run Quite hard as I dropped it from Only Waist Height onto the grass but it hit a tiny piece of Broken Pottery and Chipped a Large Piece of the Belly Out!!! Hit the same piece even harder with an older clipper 12c27 and just got a Roll. The Chip When inspected showed very Large Grain Structure and Almost No Malleable Bending/Denting at all just Chipping!!! You Win Some You Loose Some :-)))
Well my evening just got better.
Insane… Love it 😀
nice job buddy. my test had far different results, i test with cardboard and there are other variables. i never had my edge roll though.
Wait a sec. Is that the burr-bird? :D
This is great to see. You can put a crazy angle on a blade then add just a small micro bevel and that alone stabilizes that edge. Would be interesting to see a less extreme edge with that same micro bevel before and after. Say it does 100 cuts on a 13 degree see how much it does after adding that small bevel.
00:44/18-01-2023 Love this video.great job👍👍👍
Way to go Champ!
Cedric always the best :)
Eyyyyyy my favourite steel getting tested. Now let’s see if I know my stuff lol
You also test vg-10 for comparison because I think 14C28N despite being similar in performance should due to its composition beat vg10 quite handily at low edge angles.
I'm loving these Unleashed to the Max videos. I wonder how much better super steels will do compared to the ones reviewed so far.
Jamie Jones we will see soon, once i get braver on the ol’ tormek mcgee
Perhaps not quite as well as you might hope :3
magdsmad that's what I'm expecting ;)
Tbh I'm quite excited to see a fancy super steel fail spectacularly at below 15-degree angles where the humble 14C28N and friends crush them :P lol. I don't know why but the idea really amuses me. It'd be funny for me to see the reactions of all the people who refuse to buy anything other than super steels. Not that I don't like those, they're quite interesting too but as far as knife steels go I think abrasive resistance is highly overvalued by knifemakers and steel companies are more than happy to take advantage of that.
Super interesting result again, sir. I had a question: the thickness of a blade *behind the edge* at the tip is usually thicker than at the main portion of the blade, which is why the edge bevel is usually slightly wider towards the tip when sharpening at a set angle. But on your P801 it appears that the edge bevel is widest on the flat of the blade and gets thinner towards the tip. Do you think the angle is consistent on that last part of the blade you use to cut the rope? Or is it possible the way the Tormek works that the angle increases when you tilt the knife to do the tip region? I'm not trying to nitpick at your methods I'm honestly curious because I'm still learning about sharpening and very conscious of the edge bevel and trying to maintain a consistent angle. Maybe I'm mistaken about this. Thanks!
Hey nice birdshot iv shirt
What else I’d funny is how you caring,y put that edge on it. But when you were done it looked like a 5 year old did it. I know it is imperfect grinds in the steel. It’s stilll just funny. You rock man!
Damn 215 cuts! I feel pretty vindicated about my claims! lol
I'm sharpening my outdoor knives to 20 degree per side mirror polish on lansky sapphire stone and then 25 degree on 600 stone. IMO it works best for hard work, 20 degree was rolling way too easy when chopping. I wonder if I could make them 17 degree mirror and then 25 without compromising the toughness?
Keep up the good work, mate!
Pete always wondered when you did/do your worksharp edges did you take them up to 6k polish with the belts used in the Ken onion?
The Burr Bird T-shirt!
I like it. Is this possible to do with just a sharpening stone?
The scream 😂
I always love The Wilhelm Scream. It's been in over 300 movies. Best running joke in Hollywood. 8-)
Who would thumbs this down this is ground breaking stuff here people need to pay attention to what is happening!
David Rutan Ive got a few that sub to thumbs down, and then some probably dont like me or my ways in a more incidental way. As far as thumbs downs go, the youtube average is 5 per 100 so I’m very happy with my general ratio
Cedric & Ada Gear and Outdoors knifesteelnerds.com/2018/06/18/maximizing-edge-retention/ check this out if you haven't seen this. You are right according to this "scientific" article.
That was a great article! When I read it, I immediately thought of Pete and his recent testing. The timing of the corroborating tests couldn't have been better.
What is this music. Hear it everywhere.
He's very generous wearing that birdshot t-shirt. lol
Remember peeps, Pete mutilates his blades so u don't have to
Black Mage Village from Final Fantasy IX
Would u recommend keeping the micro bevel on a newly purchased garberg? I dont have the tools to completely reproduce a knife nor do I have the skills u have. But would u keep the microbevel or completely scandi it to 0 degrees? Thanks and love the vids..
Try this with BD1!!
How about 12C27, BD1, 440C or 9C18MoV - would be interesting. Even N690Co / N680 would be nice as well.
Keep up the great work
I was not expecting this level of meme and I really should have.
Hey Pete! Maybe 30 degrees inclusive without stropped micro bevel would be better? I mean thats the second knife to bite the dust at 24 degrees)))
Yes another :)
That's a gorgeous watch on your wrist, Panerai?
Probably not worth paying the money... but you should get the LA Police gear knife again in s35vn and try this...
Watching this video with the sound off (I'm on a train) and the auto captions switched on so I can keep up with what's being said. Comedy gold. My favourites captions so far being 'You can't hide from the results Kenya' and 'Twisted sister' rope.
hahah that would be some unintentional hilarity for sure, god knows my diction could use work at the best of times!
Nah it's just that RUclips has a bias towards American accented English. Your diction is perfect for the country you are in.
A few things to experiment with here:
1. The concave bevel you are applying here is going to be extremely weak. A slightly convex bevel here will *dramatically* improve the strength of the edge without seriously effecting cutting performance. You should be able to do some power cuts through that wood without damaging the edge if you go this route.
2. Applying the micro-bevel with buffing compound will completely kill your slicing aggression. Apply the micro bevel with a stone on the order of 25 microns and you should see a further improvement both in ease of cutting and edge retention.
3. There is a good chance that you fatigued metal along the edge when you rolled it that wasn't fully removed when you applied the micro bevel. That could also have negatively effected your result.
I'd love to see how far you can *really* push the knife with these tweaks!
@@Butch_Deezlsteak You lol, but I can get double the edge retention show here from a dollar store knife with these techniques.
What degree is best for 14c28n pocket knifes
Also, another interesting thing to note. Roman Landes (The German engineer whose research informs my understanding of steel). Claims that AEB-L at 62HRC run at low angles is the best knife steel based on its ease of resharpening, toughness, stainlessness, and durability. He prefers it over every other steel out there (including over high hardness 1095) so if you want to test something really remarkable AEB-L by a custom maker. 14C28N is very similar to AEB-L but AEB-L at 62HRC has even better characteristics and higher toughness in any test like this.
Interesting to know, I heard D2 was even better than AEB-L when treated properly steel knife nerds steel charts
@@krustysurfer Dr. Larrin mentioned aeb-l is extremly good steel when using it at low angles too
@@smithgeorge6858 will check it out 😉 if I remember AEB-L has fine carbide structure for a simple steel, that is its charm for high HRC low angle blades that are not prone to chipping.... I could be wrong
@@krustysurfer you are right he did mention high hrc if i recall right it was something due to edge stability.
@@smithgeorge6858 i personally think most knife steel under 62 HRC is a injustice to the customer
Came to this video for knife steel... within 2 seconds was like, "That music can't possibly be Black Mage Village from FFIX.." and it was... Sorry I just recently replayed the entire game on Switch after 20 years since beating it. Nice touch.
Screw the max, I want to listen to some Yes!
I can't wait for your Rex-121 unleashed to the max 😂
The intro song, reminds me on final fantasy 9. Whats the name of the song mate???
Nice video thanks for the research. Was very helpfull
That gum wood looks like it has a grain structure simular to oak
Hi Pete, 9cr18mov or 14c28n, what of those budget steels is better choice for EDC folder?
How about joker knives using this steel? I purchased three joker knives and received them this week. Quality and fit and finish is 100%. This company knows how to make a knife.
Very good steel.ho we like.
That meme was amazing.
Justin Roy it was indeed well memed.
I love my knifes in 14C28N. At the point that my premium steel stay in the case😅
would be good to see 420 if you still have the leatherman crater!
MrTacixa that will deifnitrly happen
420 might be quite a standout if given a larger microbevel to counteract the softness of the steel
Interesting... I have wondered why knife bevels are so much more obtuse than common woodworking tools, such as chisels and plane blades. The common included bevel for a chisel or a plane blade is 25 degrees. That would be 12.5 degrees per side on a knife blade. My paring chisels are about 17 or 18 degrees, included bevel. I strop my chisels and plane blades and that does put a slight convex bevel on them.
Dude, DF9 for instant win at the start
Hey Cedric would a pretty quick video explaining the whole carbide size thing and it’s effects on steel strength be of any interest to you? I’ve been thinking of doing a quick one and going over some of the results in your test. It wouldn’t be exactly 100% accurate but I think I have learned about as much about the science of steel without getting a degree in materials science lol. I’d also like to go over some misconceptions about knife steels my research taught me about.
I sadly live on college student budget right now so I can't really do my own steel videos to show you my claims. I can barely afford my Rike and my ZDP Dragonfly which are my only two knives I could test so video explanations and theoretical videos are the best I can do right now.
i am always open to more info so I would consume said content with much vigor!
Alright, I guess I'm making a video then lol :P. I'll have to see what I can put together after my exam this week.
Hey, Cedric, I made an introductory kind of video on knife steels. I kinda realized that I'm going to have to make multiple videos to explain all the concepts I understand. What I know comes from something like 100s of hours lurking in forums and Cliffstamp and stuff so it's going to take me a while to try to explain everything and make it understandable lol. It took me quite a while to really understand anything and I really want to make it beginner friendly so I'm going to turn this into a little series. So the first video is linked here. I'm sorry about the quality. I'll try to figure out something a little bit better.
ruclips.net/video/zFwEKKR1_LY/видео.html
Just FYI it’s Pete. The channel name is after the dogs (Cedric and Ada). I did the same thing lol.
Personally I think that big-ol-edge is cool.
Piper Perri
Mack Daddy!
***Black Mage Village intensifies***
This is my favorite steel to play around with. It's cheap and it sharpens pretty easily. My Ruike knives have been tortured. Being a steel nerd is cool.
P.S. Great shirt!
What is the max HRC this steel can be taken to?
Based on metallurgy should be decent steel if tempered and heat treated properly.
Dick flying off gets me every Time! That was cause of gluten if I remember 😂
Yeah, he drank concentrated gluten)))
Yeah that clip cracks me up every time! 🤣
aaaah that jojo ref
Also if you want "UNLEASHED TO MAX !!!!!!!" footage think about One Punch Man, Mob Psycho 100 and Gurren Laggan
9:37 Did you say "roll prone mess" or "roll proneness"? I had to listen to it about seven or eight times but I think it is the former. 🤣🤣🤣
With all your cut tests what seems to be the best angle for edc knives in your opinion?
Very late reply, but I’d also like to know his opinion on this too.
I'm really bullish on 14C28N as well. GO NITRIDES!!!
So help me out here, is the Sandvick steel on the blur good?? Or is it only good if a differnt angle is put on it? I'm curious about this because I absolutely love my Blur and edc it more than any of my other knifes. Awesome channel BTW glad i found it. You for definitely got me as a subscriber. Keep up the great work
That meme 😂
Death by super tornado AND rockets, what a way to go...RIP puppies.
👍🏻💯
The 1428sanvik is got nitrogen in the mix.a very hardcore stanless steel.its a real hardon stuff.😷
Frankie Bird shirt
Big Brown Guy? Haha do you mean big brown bear? Or is there another very similar channel I don't know about?
oh yeah, he changed to ‘bear’ a while back - I really must get with the times!
Time to get a Tormek sponsorship?
I got it .the knive.cool i like.
unleashed to the maxxs on Maxamet ?? hmm hmm ??
toxic flipper lol! I don't think his hands will cope with it!! 😄
Michael Durell hah he can do it. who do you think he is. it would be a breeze for him
14C28N needs to be hardened to HRC 62 for its best performance. Just get some factory to do that though.
Almost all mass production knife steels seem to suffer from being under baked...
D2 is another steel that can be hardened above 59 HRC can be pushed to 61-62 and is amazing at that hardness, however finding somebody to do that for you is expensive why?
Because it's hell on the sanding grinding polishing devices which equals lots of Labor man-hours which equals expensive.
14c with proper heat treatment looks to be like really good steel. One thing to consider is if they hardened steel properly people may not buy the more expensive steels and stick with the more budget-friendly knife steels to get the job done.
@@krustysurfer I got stuck with the heat treating at my last job because I mentioned I made knives for a profitable hobby. So now I'm an engineer-heat treater lol. Luckily I had a good relationship at Hinderliter HT. So they'd help me out. The reason they don't harden up steels to their best has nothing to do with grinding, belts are cheap and steels like 14C28N will grind the same at 62 pretty much the same as 59.
It is much cheaper to run your HT oven at 1850 than 1950, corners are cut on temper too if you only get 61 as quenched, 300 is cheaper than 400 degrees.
Let me teach you something about the Rockwell C scale, it is mildly exponential. For instance, RC 50-51 is a 4% gain in hardness, RC 60-61 is 5% and 60-62 is 10.3% gain. But 62 down to 58 is a loss of 20% hardness. So 62 isn't much harder than 61, but it accumulates. D2 at RC 59 will be just as hard to grind as 61-62 because of the 5-6% of Chromium carbides plus the ferrite/cementite/iron carbides. Losing 5-6% of the Chromium is why D2 isn't stainless because as a carbide it doesn't contribute to corrosion resistance.
It is like my truck's old tires which were not the calibrated for size needed for my speedometer. So when my speedo said 35 I was going 34, no big deal. But at 70 I was only going 65 and the RC scale is like that, but in the opposite direction. You want a link to Bessemer and the hardness scale?
@@MountainFisher thanks for the beta 🤙😎
@@MountainFisher would love to see that link. Never knew that about the hrc scale.
@@jasonfletcher8171 I tried to put in the link and for some reason YT isn't letting me post links, I'm sorry, name of the page is Rockwell Hardness Difference Calculator.