Miquella is NOT Griffith | Elden Ring Lore Analysis
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
- S1E4
@Ontos99 video: • Miquella's Cut Content...
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The ENTIRE History of Caria - • The ENTIRE History of ...
The Eclipse: Miquella's Secret Crime - • Miquella's Secret Crim...
Lost Souls of the Sage's Cave - • Lost Souls of the Sage...
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@Drahcir361
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If you’re saying this aged poorly did you actually watch the video? Did you get to the point where I predicted that Miquella was manipulating Mohg? 18:17
Yeah I watched the video and tbh I still feel like this aged poorly. I think your analysis of both characters is just straight up wrong lmao. There was numerous examples of Griffith being a mastermind and manipulating everyone on the field. Both in battle and politically. Sure he can’t mastermind everything which lead to his downfall but neither could miquella which lead to him dying by the tarnished. Also, much like after Griffith shed his other half(the love and compassion he first felt with guts) and his past(the band of the hawk) to become a God allowing him to pretty much brainwash people into thinking he is good is EXACTLY what miquella did(leaving his home, melania and shedding his more compassionate and loving side St. Trina)I could continue on how wrong this is but truthfully i could write a book on the one-to-one similarities but this comment is long enough to tackle the first points
This aged poorly
@@Clamchief024if you can’t tell me who manipulated Miquella then you can’t tell me he is Griffith
You can say they are similar, which they clearly are, I dedicate a majority of the video making their direct comparisons and am not arguing against it.
But Griffith’s defining flaw that drives the plot forward is how he is manipulated into making the choices he made.
So who is Miquella’s God Hand? Who manipulated Causality to put him in the position we find him?
I think I know the answer, but I doubt anyone on here who’s never attempted to put their thoughts in the internet and just lazily wrote “aged bad” hasn’t.
Characters are deeper than what’s on the surface and I think it’s disrespectful to the art to just call Miquella a clone of Griffith.
Just because he mimics Griffith doesn’t make him Griffith
nerd
@@JackisaMimic
The GodHand never manipulated Griffith. They even state they have no control over causality but they can merely predict it so that alone makes your point fall flat. The God hand cannot manipulate, change or even be present the real world until AFTER Griffiths second rebirth so they would have no way to influence Griffith. His goal of having a kingdom came from him not wanting to be poor and disrespected hence the flash back. The manipulation tactic during that flash back only happened because they were in their realm due to the eclipse and they only did it because Griffith was having second thoughts because his love for Guts. That’s like the MAJOR plot point in the entire series is how Guts was the only person who could distract Griffith from HIS goals and it’s shown and stated several times how different Griffith acts around Guts. So they manipulated his flash back in order to remind him of his original dream. They didn’t put the idea in Griffiths head. He has always been an ambitious and talented person. That was simply causality at work.
That was the politest way I've ever heard anyone describe the Eclipse
“Things happen and it isn’t good” is what I surmised it as 😂
@@JackisaMimic💀
Modern RUclips would not allow you to describe it otherwise.
@@JackisaMimic Sounds like Melina is more like Griffith than anyone else in the game
Great theory, especially since Miquella used his own blood to make Haligtree grow... so a lot of blood sacrifces might make some other tree grow.
Thank you! You can also find sacramental buds at places like corpse piles in Mt Glemir or where Milicent is bleeding at the Church in Caelid!
@MeninMayaz She is referring to the Albinauric Village and the half of the Haligtree Secret Medallion, the crones usually guide to points of interests within a level.
@@JackisaMimic Y'know... I thought Gowry's questline ended without a end. If you give him what he wants, it's a nonending. It's really baffling. If you don't, he gets all depressed. So I'm curious if they'll add more to slave knight Gowry later. 😆
Currently soaking in moghs blood dream
That was a really gross thing to say lol
Bro referencing the berserk manga like a a holy text is so real 12:57
I cannot read anything else but: "Bro referencing the holy text as a holy text is so real"
"Thats right, I'm talking about the HORNIEST half brother around, Mack Daddy Mohg" 💀
I absolutely agree that Miquella bewitched Mohg in order to control him, as Miquella is like you said a chess master playing on a grand scale. However, I believe that the kidnapping may not have been planned and was more of an unintended consequence of the bewitching branches effect on Mohg's already delusional mental state. Albeit purely speculation, Miquella needed to get closer to Mohg to study the power of the Formless Mother. This video mentions blood sacrifice and Miquella needed this knowledge to cure his curse and evolve into a god. With the knowledge of the Formless Mother's blood magic he was able to form his Haligtree, which could have potentially challenged the Erdtree's power if it had reached its adult form. We know that Miquella’s cocoon was essentially the heart/soul of the Haligtree, but his premature removal via the kidnapping stunted the tree, leaving its inhabitants praying for Miquella's return.
Elden Ring's NPCs are prime examples of the old proverb: the road to hell is paved with good intentions. A common meaning of the phrase is that wrongdoings or evil actions are often undertaken with good intentions; or that good intentions, when acted upon, may have unintended consequences. Miquella seems to have the best intentions: freeing his sister of rot, himself of eternal youth, and the Lands Between of the influence of fickle outer gods. In the end these intentions led to only more bloodshed for a dream that would never be brought to fruition. Fantastic video!
Thank you, I’m happy you enjoyed the video! What’s interesting about Miquella’s ascent to godhood is that when we defeat Malenia she mentions that our strength is the mark of a true Lord. If every Elden Lord is consort to a God, what is Malenia implying here?
@@JackisaMimic A few interpretations:
-In a technical sense Malenia is located in a secret area and is an optional end game boss. Therefore her line is possibly in reference to the tarnished's achievement of beating a true challenge, that in ER's first year managed to kill players "329 million times", to become worthy enough for the title of Elden Lord.
-In the Lands Between strength equals respect and the strong are recognized for their greatness. Malenia mentions that our strength is extraordinary after her defeat, while Godfrey states "thy strength befits a crown" after he's been vanquished. In both regards these were the fiercest warriors of their time and both never found defeat at the hands of a challenger (of course Hoarah Loux was defeated in the Bad Lands after the Long March evidenced by the loading title card which shows his crucifixion & Malenia's use of the scarlet rot was necessary in her stalemate with Radahn), but they both had marched throughout multiple regions without facing a true contender. After they are bested by a lowly tarnished they show their respect for you by offering the most honorable title you could hold within their lands: the Elden Lord.
-As mentioned Malenia's past actions during the shattering pitted her against two demigods, Godrick & Radahn, she showed mercy to the first as he groveled at her feet (most likely out of a respect for his ancestor, her brother, Godwyn), while she left the second with decaying madness as he slowly grew into a mindless beast.
-Finally Malenia is an empyrean, and empyrean's seem to partner with Elden Lords they deem to be the best with assisting their associated Outer God with controlling the Lands Between. The first Elden Lord was chosen by the Greater Will due to his battlefield experience to conquer in the name of the Golden Order, next the Greater Will chose Radagon to provide Marika with decendants that were more likely to become empyreans in order to create a vessel to inhabit. The Dark Moon (Rani) chose the tarnished after they proved themselves capable of achieving the age of stars, while the Formless Mother chose Mohg to bring about the Mohgwyn Dynasty of blood. Each Elden Lord is chosen by an Outer God because they are the best chance at influencing their control over the Lands Between. It could just be that Malenia was stating the tarnished is powerful enough to claim the title of lord, or it could be Malenia inviting the tarnished to become the Elden Lord for her brother, Miquella, who is preparing to become an Outer God after his rebirth within the Haligtree.
I’m with you until the last the point because I don’t think the Greater Will chose anyone, or that any gods choose anyone for that matter. They may contain mass amounts of power and cosmic influence but from what we know about the Elden Beast, or that the Death god’s envoy is a Twinbird, is that they are animalistic in design.
I think with that design choice, and knowing that GRRM is an atheist, we shouldn’t ascribe intelligence or rather deliberate actions from the gods. I think they are more akin to natural forces rather than a chess player who thinks multiple moves ahead.
At least, that’s how I see it. When all of the demigods play their Game of Thrones people die, and for what? The big space bug who lives in the tree?
Hope that made sense and wasn’t much of a tangent! I didn’t notice your name before but wanted to say I love your videos, you do a great job with researching all of the real world influences on Elden Ring and your channel is a phenomenal resource!
@@JackisaMimic Great point about GRRM being an atheist and the Outer Gods being more akin to nature itself; like Shinto, nature religion. Shinto focuses on adapting to life's pragmatic requirements, like forming an unalloyed gold needle crafted to ward away the meddling of outer gods, an approach that assessed the truth of meaning of theories or beliefs in terms of the success of its practical application.
Shinto is polytheistic, involving the veneration of many deities known as kami, which are deemed capable of both benevolent and destructive deeds. Empyreans are vessels capable of allowing Outer Gods to use their bodies as a way into the physical realm. The best example is Malenia turning into a physical embodiment, a goddess. I may have personified the Outer Gods a bit, but I meant the versions of the Outer God that has become physical, like the kami.
Kami can be elements of the landscape, forces of nature (Malenia), and/or the spirits of venerated dead people (Godwyn). Many kami are considered the ancient ancestors (Ancestor Spirit).
Yes Malenia used the power of Rot to bloom into the Scarlet Aeonia to beat Radahn, but the Rot also used the conflict to spread throughout Caelid, as well as further causing her own rot to worsen and thus become closer to an evolution of the Goddess of Rot. But you're right rot doesn't need intelligence to spread, it's a natural occurrence. Interestingly dry rot is a fungus, often referred to as an ‘intelligent fungus’. The reason dry rot is referred to as intelligent is because of its ability to travel across non-timber surfaces and to take moisture from timber.
Outer Gods are a bit vague, but their powers steam from a primordial natural source (Fell God is fire, Storm Lord is wind, Rot is decay). Marika with the power of the GW disturbed the balance of life & death. This is why I believe her children to be cursed, it's an attempt for nature to re-balance itself. Not a tangent at all, thoroughly enjoyed the knowledge! Thank you for your support and please keep up the fantastic work!
@EldenTales Great comparison to the Kami and Shinto, I may have to cite your comment in the future. It’s the exact real world example that explains who the gods are.
The bit about dry rot is so interesting, especially in its relation to timber. The Numen are described as long lived and seldom born, and if you posited that as a riddle “what is long lived and seldom born” the answer you might get would be: a tree!
You were right, he wasn't Griffith. He was giga ultra turbo double deluxe Griffith.
“Little Bloodborne guys” got a good chuckle out of me. Funny how the thing that was initially inspired by Berserk ended up becoming the reference, and not the other way around. 😅
Time isn't a circle, it's a spiral ;)
@@JackisaMimicJunji Ito approves
Miquella is totally Griffith
Beloved by everyone; he went bat shit insane after he was rejected
He was so disturbed he devised a plan that royally backfired
this one aged poorly 😭
He really was Griffith
Literally did radahn dirty same way Griffith did
Yup, the mohglested was actually the mohglester
@@maddogbasil in a way Miquella is worse he made the audience us hate Mohg when he was the one mohglested
Lol
@@maddogbasilSure it totally wasn't Marika who literally genocided an entire people in order to attain godhood and then banish their home into obscurity forever
These new smaller lore channels have been really taking a dump on the bigger ones. You guys really do dig into the real shit we're all looking for 👍
I think the main difference is that we have no financial incentives when it comes to the content we make or the quality of that content. I think the larger channels do have passion for the work they put out but they are most likely more risk averse to talking about niche topics that may not get enough clicks to keep the lights on and food on the table.
@@JackisaMimic Do you follow Honored Madman?
No I don't think I have watched any of their videos. Do you have a specific recommendation?
Can you recommend other smaller lore channels? I've also noticed a lot of quality content out of smaller channels lately.
@@JackisaMimic I recommend his video on the East, the one on the rats, his "radahn festival" one as well. The Radahn festival video explains his theory that Patches went there to basically get the remains of Tragoth(something I've never seen other lore videos I haven't see to describe).
My theory is the dlc will be about the return of both Miquella AND Godwyn. Miquella being reborn and Godwyn being resurrected in his warped current form
We all wanna fight the freaky fish-man Godwyn, it’s definitely on my wishlist lol
I think Miquella used the bewitching branches on Marika to get an Erdtree seed. The fact that he was growing his Haligtree with his own blood is what drew the attention of the Formless Mother, since she is an outer god of wounds and blood. We see the albinaurics were undergoing metamorphosis alongside Miquella as the tree was growing and producing sap, which is a process Mohg screwed up by kidnapping Miquella. Miquella doesn’t respond to Mohg because Mohg’s love and planned dynasty under the Formless Mother is one-sided, not reciprocated by Miquella. I would argue Miquella doesn’t want anything to do with outer gods at all.
Miquella abandoned the Greater Will after he learned it couldn’t heal his sister and found unalloyed gold to heal her himself. He manifested Saint Trina to give relief to those suffering from the Flame of Frenzy. I think Miquella is planning to ascend to the power of an Outer God of unalloyed gold which would remove the influences of other other outer gods who have done so much damage to the Lands Between- including the outer god of rot when Malenia becomes his empyrean vessel. He’d expel the gods of rot and frenzy, who actively harm and destroy people. He’d remove the god of death and deathroot from the Lands Between who had a hand in killing Godwyn. And he’d replace the Greater Will, an impersonal force who doesn’t seem to care about the people suffering under its control, like the Misbegotten and Albinaurics. Miquella is described as a character who actually cares about the Lands Between and wants to help people live peacefully together. Performing a massive blood sacrifice doesn’t seem to follow from that.
I’m curious to what Miquella’s goals are pertaining to the gods. We know that there are other gods but it seems that the Greater Will, or more precisely its adherents, have nearly eliminated the worship or even influence of other gods.
So would Miquella try to reduce the influence of all gods, strive for an equilibrium, maybe has preference for a specific god?
Thanks for your comment, I appreciate you sharing your own thoughts and theories!
If the Greater Will is the supreme deity among the Outer Gods, I can see Miquella partner with it to make a new order that benefits everyone in the Lands Between like his Haligtree was supposed to do. After seeing the DLC trailer though, I’m still wondering what his actual plan is. If the Greater Will just wants an order, I can see Miquella making a better world order than his parents, and he could actually make an eternal order by kicking out other Outer Gods with unalloyed gold. Once he’s in power, no one can challenge him. If he’s a good ruler, then maybe we’ll be okay. But if he’s not, someone’s gotta stop him.
@@JackisaMimic Disagree a little here, I think worshipers of Marika stamped out worship of other gods in her name not the Greater Will's name. Brother Cohryn even states that incantations of the Two Fingers are heresies. I think this points to the fact the worship of Marika as the one true god is the faith of the golden order and the lands between. There doesn't seem to be any worship of GW in the Golden Order but worship of Marika.
I’m honestly expecting him to co-op the Formless Mother to complete his ascension to godhood. He’s not gonna take the fact we murdered his twin sister lightly.
That's why my first DLC character hasn't burned the Erdtree or fought Malenia yet lol
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it implied that Malenia will bloom again? Considering the presence of the flower in her room and what happened if you chose to end Millicent's questline a certain way.
@@IndigoJenarYou are right you also do not get the "Demi-god felled" message. There is a good chance she returns
His beauty, leadership skills and prowess with the sword and combat are probably Griffith's most redeeming qualities
Griffith has pretty privilege that's for sure
@JackisaMimic def wonder how that must feel lmao. I have hard bound volume 1 of berserk but haven't finished reading 😔 and have watched 1997. I gotta get back into it. Have a good night man.
I think the following should be noted:
Griffith's ambitions were never nearly so simple.
Or rather, they were, but his relationship to them is complicated.
Griffith's main reason for agreeing to the sacrifice of the Eclipse was that, if he did not achieve his dream somehow, all those whom he sacrificed for it before that point would've died for nothing.
Directly before this, the Band Of The Hawk had fallen into despair after seeing the full extent of Griffith's injuries; of how he could not become their king anymore. Of how they'd essentially saved him for no reason.
Now, obviously, Guts had no such objections, and planned to stay with Griffith as long as he could to help him heal...
Except Casca was telling him to leave.
As such, Griffith had initially chosen the seemingly most logical choice; ridding everyone of the burden that is himself. His dream was impossible, so what was the point in making others sacrifice more for him? What was the point of continuing to live in such disgrace?
But then, the Eclipse happened.
I believe Miquella might, just might, be like Griffith in this specific manner; someone who forces themselves forward due to the weight of the sacrifices of others.
People literally blew themselves up just to " light the way" for his "return". If he failed to grow, to become a god as was his fate, ordained by the Two Fingers and the Greater Will, what was he worth? Why had they all died for him, if he would fail?
I understand this perspective but I don't think it justifies continuing to pile on the corpses, which is what convinces Griffith. The Band of the Hawk fought and died for Griffith because they believed in him and believed in a possible future with him, none of them would have agreed to what became of them during the Eclipse. In the end, Griffith was coaxed into performing the Invocation of Doom by the Godhand, without them would he have made the same choice? That's one of the biggest question Berserk asks so I can't answer the question. I hope that if we ever get an ending we see Griffith make the right choice and not the selfish choice.
Anyway
What's interesting about Miquella's followers, his soldiers specifically, is that they all wear crowns of unalloyed gold on their helmets that increase their faith. That doesn't look like charisma, that looks like bewitchment.
@@JackisaMimic Precisely;
Griffith's charisma, his presence, was not natural. Every time you hear about him, you hear comparisons to a god, an angel, a hero from the fairy tales. Even if he was " human" , he was never really like other people.
He was destined, from birth, to become part of the Godhand.
In the same way, the Bewitching Branch works because of " youthful, sacramental blood"; Miquella's blood. The "bewitching " is something natural to Miquella himself; a part of himself from the beginning. One he learned to use,but still; it was always there.
Did he always have a choice? Or was it just part of being himself? Of being essentially THE Empyrean?
The Band's members, from the beginning, put their lives up for Griffith to use. They knew, from the beginning, that they would likely die and never get to witness their own dreams come true. They thought Griffith's dream was worthy of that level of sacrifice. They accepted that the future Griffith might bring wasn't one they would necessarily benefit from, but one that would be better for the world.
This is the Godhand's pitch. And it is at least half-true, like any good lie is. Of course, none of the Band would've expected, or desired, dying in such a grisly and humiliating way, away from the battlefield, but in Griffith's specific state of mind...
Is there a difference between one form of death and the other?
Is one death more honorable? Was the child who died for him while clutching a doll more noble a sacrifice? Was his death less heinous a crime laid at the feet of Griffith?
Would it have been better, if they'd all continued to fight; to die on the battlefield like they always did....
Only, for nothing?
Would that have been more admirable? More " worthy" an end?
How could he compare them? How dare he? Death is death, and there remain only a few more that need to be added to the pile. And after that..
His dream would be at hand.
All of it would be justified.
All of it would've mattered.
He'd turn immediately from sinner to saint, from monster to king, because that's just how thin the difference is.
Of course, we see in Femto a simple truth;
There is no difference.
Never was.
There is nothing that could ever atone for Griffith becoming king the way he did; he will always be a monster.
And so, the Idea did the smart thing, and did away with what petty little things he had...
Like sentiment.
Or empathy.
Or love.
And my opinion is simple:
He'd say a firm " no".
Not out of virtue, mind you.
Griffith is a proud man. If he were presented in any other situation with that same choice, he'd refuse it immediately.
It'd be a shortcut; a humiliating debt to a group of so-called deities he had no reason to trust or believe in. As long as he had working hands and feet, a voice to mesmerise his followers and his crowd, he'd continue his path to his dream the way he knew how. That'd be the option his pride accepted; the one he'd chosen from the beginning.
As such, it is only natural the Godhand had to make sure to take all that away. And in as sudden a way as possible.
Then, would his pride be broken. Then, would he be amenable to whatever it was they demanded of him.
Great analysis and write up!
@@JackisaMimic Thanks! That's very high praise, coming from you!
This sounds an awful lot like “Griffith did nothing wrong”
If anything, while Guts was with him, Griffith probably saw him as the means he needed to achieve his ends. Guts had become the more formidable warrior between the two of them, and Griffith leaned on Guts to attain victory time and time again. It isn’t that Griffith was unable to match the feats of Guts, it is that Griffith never needed to. With Guts in Griffith’s company, Guts’ feats were attributed to Griffiths leadership.
I think that Griffith losing Guts made him lose hope that he would ever be able to achieve his dreams, which in turn made him do all the unhinged shit that lead to his imprisonment, torture, and the eclipse.
In my opinion, Griffith saw the eclipse as his last chance to be able to achieve his dreams, and in reality it absolutely was. My guy was a skeleton who could hardly even move his body on his own at that point.
I don’t think its correct at all to say Griffith sacrificed everybody in his life because of the people who died on his conquest to achieve power. There is absolutely no evidence of that, and all of his closest allies were still alive at the time of the eclipse. It was his destiny to join the godhand, and by the time of the eclipse, joining them was literally his only option left if he wanted to achieve his ambitions.
The betrayal is gonna hurt for real with this one 😂
Wtf, I was watching the video and was astounded of how much you got right following the DLC, ofc you got some of the details wrong but much of the overarching theory was spot on. Then I go down to the comments and see all the people saying you got it all wrong, seems that some people cant really think past "white haired twink Griffith = white haired twink Miquella" lol.
Just found your channel today and Im looking forward to seeing the rest of your videos in the upcoming days. Many of your theories are a breath of fresh air and challenge the elden ring theory "status quo" while still being well-researched and well argued, keep up the good work!
Great dichotomy. I appreciate you highlighting the distinction Jack, seeing as the Miquella and Griffith comparisons have been going on since 2022.
I'm curious, what's the connection between blood and time travel? From what I could see there is the ancient dragon stone scales and the storm in Farum Azula that possess the abilities to warp time, but I don't see any use for blood in that regard.
In regards to causality, I've come to think the reason why Miquella's plan A (ascend to godhood through the Haligtree) failed, or had to "fail", is because the previous Golden Order incurred too much shall we say "karmic debt", which created a retaliatory effect and Miquella lost the divine protection of an Outer God for a time during the process of ascension; as his intent was to liberate himself from the burden of being an Empyrean.
Mohg, similar to the Dung Eater, reveled in his corruption. He felt it was all he had left once the Golden Order forsook him. He remained in hiding during the Shattering and slowly amassed a blood cult, but there was never a reconciliation between him and his parents; or any kind of compensatory action to balance out the rejection and subsequent torture and imprisonment. Omen Killers are still at large, and Omens with their horns removed can be found in Stormveil Castle as well as Leyndell.
Consider, if you will, that Miquella, similar to Christ willingly getting crucified, is taking on the "sins" of mankind to balance causality enough to create a perfect Golden Order. Including the act of providing refuge for the lost and rejected such as the Misbegotten that you had mentioned, there is also cut content where in his disguise/other self St. Trina he soothes the Frenzied Flame. He can foresee the impending delay to the realization of his objectives, similar to Jesus knowing he would be tried and crucified, but he also sees the fulfillment of his dream once the "karma" is cleansed. Why does Gideon imply that Marika felt sorrow in the face of Miquella's capture, even though there is evidence that she worked with him on the Tarnished plan alongside the other Empyreans? Think of the sorrow of Mary in knowing the fate of Jesus, like as depicted in the Pieta, and the pain, and possible suffering, he may endure in the process of "bringing heaven to Earth".
Or in a more modern context, think of Doctor Strange in Infinity War sifting through millions of timelines (picture Miquella staring into the storm of Farum Azula) and seeing there is only one timeline where they break the cycle of Samsara (defeating and harmonizing the Outer Gods and creating an eternal Golden Order). Miquella sets the stage for the Tarnished before departing, having faith in their eventual resurrection, lovingly giving them the tools they had once used to traverse and tame the Land's Between, and even quell Frenzied Flame while helping their twin sister remember their dignity through Millicent.
In a Berserk context, I think Miquella is more like Schierke, and will be playing that role within the DLC as the mystic guiding the Tarnished through their trials in the spirit world and time travel.
Blood and timetravel comes from ASOIAF. The use of psychotropics to induce conciseness time travel is a very common trope in GRRM's stories. In ASOIAF, Bran's powers to time travel and control people are enhanced when he drinks a porridge that is assumed to be made of human blood, and a theory I subscribe to is that Bran is using time travel and sending dreams/visions to achieve some unknown goal.
I read a great analysis that compared Bran to the Arthurian Legend of the Fisher King, and the Fisher King tale appears to be combination of Celtic Myth and Jesus Christ.
So based on your analysis comparing Miquella to a Christ figure I think there may be merit, we need the DLC of course, but since I think he is similar to Bran in ASOIAF I would say that it is a valid reading.
Jesus would definitely wash the feet of a misbegotten lol
Completely agree Miquella is not Griffith .
The radagon question at the end reminds me of Honored Madman's theory that Radagon was Marika's science experiment including her lineage with the nox.
Marika mixed in a lil giants hair into her silver tear soup?
@@JackisaMimic Could be. There's also the data name for the Nightmaiden puppets which says "Marika's descendants"
We don’t need to look at cut content to confirm the connection. Gowry’s dialogue tells us that the Sellians are “descendants of the Eternal.”
We know it’s not the Academy Sorcerers in Sellia, so it must be the Nox we fight that are the descendants 😉
Literally saw comments saying he was griffith before searchinf up your video
This did not age well 😭😭
If you like this video, please consider watching my latest video: the ENTIRE history of Caria! It's not DLC related, but I think you might find it interesting and enjoyable!
Miquella is infact very much Griffith haha
so youre saying Skull Knight Radahn comes back in the dlc knowing why miquella sent malenia to fight him
You just made me notice that Radahn's armor is literally just Gaiseric's armor. Of course Radahn is the behelit popping head knocking badass with a broadsword Skull Knight lol
@@JackisaMimicFinally, someone else recognised the King Gaeseric similarity, Reddit was way too skeptical when I pointed it out
You could tell Reddit the sky is blue and they would ask for a source and still not believe you
@@JackisaMimicand zodds swords r exactly like radahns swords too
@@JackisaMimic I’ve been reading berserk for the first time, and as soon as i saw king gaeseric last week, I was like “holy shit that’s radahn”
So glad this video got recommended to me. Love the lore talk. Can’t wait to watch more!
Thanks again for the shoutout!! Another great theory video too!! As a fan of berserk, I definitely need to reread it with Elden ring in mind. I'm really excited to see what we learn about Miquella in the DLC and will be coming back to this video and Berserk. I like to think Miquella is a red herring to the comparison of Griffith, especially the Femto "egg" that you see on volume 12's cover. Super excited to watch the Carian History video!!
He isnt Griffith. Though there are similarities. He enchants people into loyalty, has goals beyond what anyone can even guess, and assuming Miquella resurrected a lost legendary location in the DLC Griffith did that too (all to bend reality to fight the foreign Apostles)
Miquella is the type of person who's so perfect, that I can't help but be suspicious of him and his motives.
This aged like milk. Not store bought milk. Milk you get from a platypus.
This is a really interesting take! I'm still reading through the manga, so I haven't made all the connections yet. While Griffith on a surface level seems to be similar to Miquella, I can see how Mohg could also be a stand-in. For a split second, when you were gearing up to annouce Mohg, I was thinking of Ranni based on the description... She did make sacrifices to, maybe they all have a little bit of Griffith in them... Great video!
Berserk is very special and has so many great lessons. “Hate is a place men go when they can’t face sorrow”, that’s something that has stuck with me.
Have you seen the video on the archeology of elden ring's Devine towers? Maybe there are some ideas on what was there before the primordial crucible. Any ideas?
In my next video I briefly touch on the Divine Towers. I don't know if it is possible for anything to be before the 'Primordial' Crucible(based on its name, it should before intelligent life), but it is very possible for them to exist in parallel and separately.
Bro haven’t you hear? He uses love to shrive clean the hearts of men. That’s a Griffith move if I’ve ever heard one.
To me what matters is if Miquella is being influenced or controlled by someone or something else, that is the main point I was trying to get across. Does Miquella manipulate Causality, or is he manipulated by it?
@@JackisaMimic I agree. Even if there is no hand of fate or outer god nudging him along, I think it’s fair to say that his ideological outlook is too tied to the past to consider his will to be entirely his own. Whether it’s out of obligation to his brother, influence by his father, or rebellion against his mother, he’s cut and is bound by too many puppet strings for me to see him as a free agent.
Guts and Griffith are two of the most dynamic and interesting characters in the history of storytelling. Beserk needs more exposure, it's a masterpiece of the new weird.
I agree! Berserk is a very profound story and I think one of the greatest pieces of art out there
10 minutes on the subreddit and you’ll realize that people shouldn’t read berserk if they can’t comprehend basic reading lmao
@@ProphetofGermaine Oh lord, mind explaining why ? Reddit is where good ideas and common sense go to die hahaha
If you haven’t read it I can tell you why. Berserk portrays some of most graphic depictions of violence to all manners of people: men, women, children. And that violence isn’t just killing, it’s torture, it’s mutilation, and it’s sexual: to women and children.
It is a very very very graphic and dark story, and it does not hold its punches.
You need to be very mature to be able to read Berserk properly, otherwise you come away with the wrong message and think that the violence depicted on the page IS the message.
The subreddit for berserk is so bad because you have people who post a panel asking what it means and the characters will literally say in dialogue what it means.
It’s not a difficult to understand story, and the message isn’t hidden, but for immature people or people who lack critical thinking skills it can be confusing, and in that confusion they think the portrayal of this graphic violence is a joke and not something to be taken seriously
I've had the feeling for a long time that being kidnapped by Mohg was somehow a part of Miquella's plan at least based on the circumstantial evidence. That evidence being that when we see Miquella in the intro he's in his normal small state but once we see him in present time he's massive presumably as a direct result of Mohg giving him blood. I wouldn't call it iron clad but based on the Miquella being a charmer, manipulator and schemer it seems feasible that he could put the pieces into place to allow for things to happen how they have. It might be far fetched but I like the idea more than it being a series of coincidences
No such thing as a coincidence when Causality and Regression are major themes of our story, so much so that two of our main characters (Radagon and Miquella) are very knowledgable of their ramifications. I think its almost always safe to assume someone or something is part of someone's plan in this game. Maybe that makes me crazy but it definitely makes for a good video here or there!
Hmm there is a balance though
As godwyn is soul is dead and his body is living
Miquellas body is dead but his soul is living
The point of contention being did the halig tree really fail?
If miquellas goal was a new erd tree maybe
But what if he was sucessful passing his curse to the tree
The curse is what killed the halig tree
Miquellas body is growing similar to godwyns
Without a soul so miquella soul was somewhere for awhile
And we will finally get to see hatches been up to
4:34 im only up to here but i wanted to say how refreshing it was to not have a cut there. I liked that
I tried my best to do this all in one take, I mostly cut out some overt mistakes I made while reading or if there was INTENSE dead air while I got my thoughts together. I'm happy to hear that you liked this more "genuine' style!
Such an interesting theory! I love the creativity and research done by the ER community. The location of the palace is something I didn't hear anybody mention so far. Well done!
Thank you! Happy you found it entertaining! Please consider watching my other videos if you haven’t!
That mohg thing is actually brilliant never even thought of that
Miquella is the longest lasting amber alert
I love the Miquella chess master idea though I think there's an element that wasn't mentioned: the haligtree failed. it did not grow fast enough or healthy enough even with miquella watering it with his own empyrean blood. He needed more time and more sacrifices to grow the tree so he found a worshippers of blood to fertilize his new order. I saw an interesting theory about how the defilement of Miquella's body mirrors the seedbed curse, maybe to grow the tree he had to be fully separated from grace?
a few things
1. "Griffiths dream might not be his own dream, maybe it was a dream sent to him by the Godhand": dream can mean two things. the literal dream you have while youre asleep (st. trina) and the metaphorical dream as in a life defining goal (think Griffith, MLK, Giorno Giovanna, Senator Armstrong etc). Griffiths dream is not a vision sent to him by the godhand but a desire, a goal he decided to spent his entire life pursuing.
2. Griffith's choice: The exact workings of causality aren't known. the universe seems pretty determenistic but the Godhand also said it's Griffiths choice to make, they could be lying but this could also be a way for the author to give us a hint. If a villain is only a villain because destiny wanted him to become one he isn't really evil and the conflict between Guts and Griffith is completly meaningless which I don't think was the intention.
one interpretation is that Griffith is bound by fate but is also an active participant in that fate. rather than not wanting to do something but having to anyway because fate is controling you, it is fate that makes it so that doing this is what you want. does he want it because thats who causality wanted him to be, or is it fated bacause that's who Griffith is? maybe Causality took Griffiths choice into account and had alternative in the case he refuses. even the Godhand cannot predict everything like Guts and Casca escaping and in the black swordman arc the slug count actively decides not to take the offer. it is said that to innact the plans of the Godhand they need someone who is reborn 2 times. this would've applied to the count since he first became an apostle and then (hypothetically) a godhand but after he refusing Griffith/Femto is sent to be reborn a second time at the tower of conviction. even if they weave destiny they still cannot make out the exact details but as Slann said at the end of the eclipse "the leaping of one fish would never disturb the flow of the river". Griffith likely could've refused and they simply had to put of their plan for another 216 years or sent one of the others to be reborn. complicated topic if you noticed
3. Griffiths redeeming qualities: Griffith is absolutely 100% evil and nothing justifies what he did. Falconia isn't created because Griffith is such a nice guy who wants everybody to get along, it merely serves his goal. He also only provides the cure for a problem he created when merging the worlds.
with that said there are positive things to note about him, not moral things as anything both good and bad he did was ultimatelly selfish, but philosophically. he is a commoner born from nothing striving to become king to let the world know that he exists and matters, he provides a sense of purpose to the band of the hawk, he doesn't care who joins him whether they are a bandit leader, a little girl, or a guy who just killed one of his own man, so long as they further the cause he welcomes them, his friendship with Guts was very real and the punishment he received was not justified in any way and truly shows him from a vunerable and relatable perspective, it was his inspirational determenation and conviction for his dream that gave Guts the realisation that he cannot live his own life following others,
and finally after becoming the Godhand Femto and being reborn at the tower of conviction he shares a body with the moonlight boy the child of Guts and Casca who was also turned into the demon child by the corruption of Femto's "seed". in the final chapter drawn by Kentaro Miura this is revealed, as Griffith while turning back into himself talks about feeling the embrace of nostalgic warmth only to be left with a faint feeling of longing which then to disappears with a single tear fleeting like morning dew. Many say this is prove that Griffith is being redeemed while many others say it's just the tear of the demon boy. I disagree with both. I believe that just as he said at the hill of swords Femto is truly uncaring. he lost his humanity at the eclipse. I believe that when the moonlight boy turns back to Femto just for a brief moment the real Griffith returns able to reflect upon his choice, able to feel the guilt and shame the self hatred knowing what he's done and knowing that soon his heart will freeze once more, as the faint feeling of loneliness disappears with a single tear like morning dew and Femto returns. and if that's not tragic I don't know what is
Very beautifully written, my only critique would be to add some break lines so it would be easier for me to read lol
One of the opening lines says it best: "In this world, is the destiny of mankind controlled by some transcendental entity or law? Is it like the hand of God hovering above? At least it is true that man has no control; even over his own will."
The artistic choice for Griffith to be following a dream of his, something he aspires to, and then multiple occasions being shown to us that the God Hand can send literal dreams to people is supposed to be a parallel. We are supposed to question whether or not Griffith's dream is his own or if it is an aspiration he convinced he came to on his own.
It is, what I think, the major theme of Berserk.
Do we have a choice in our actions, or are we merely victims of chance and circumstance? Does Griffith have a choice or is he just a pawn in someone else's game? If the world besets us with monsters, do we chose to become one ourselves in order to defeat them?
I don't know, I like think we always have a choice to do good and a choice to refuse evil in whatever form that might be. I wonder, if Griffith learned how the God Hand manipulated him would he have a change of heart, would he care, does he already know?
We will have to wait and see I guess.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, you are obviously very passionate about Berserk. Please consider watching my other videos and sharing your thoughts there too!
@@JackisaMimic
1. At least Guts seems to be able to defy destiny as the brand of sacrifice puts him in a limbo between the worlds. Skullnight said so relatively early in the conviction arc when they meet. At any rate I think the slug count is a clear narrative tool used to make clear that they can choose
2. Perhaps the so called turning points of the ages eclipse etc are when individuals have free will. At least it is true that the godhand isn’t omniscient.
3. Femto most certainly knows he was manipulated since he in turn shows visions to the slug count and tries to „gaslight“ him. I bet all Godhand members were previously tortured (Griffith and Void are the only ones we know the backstories of and they both were) and then manipulated by the other members. The latter part is also probably true for apostles at least if it’s necessary
4. another important theme between Guts and Griffith is their choice over their dream or their happiness. Before the eclipse Griffith received a vision likely from the Godhand showing him that he could lead a peaceful life with Casca. Still he chooses his dream and according to my theory is able to look back on that choice and perhaps regret it. Guts also blindly followed his dream until he realizes that in the process he almost lost something very important to him. And then he changes his actions. Who knows where Griffith is. Who says you’ll ever be able to kill him. SHE is the one that matters now. But then Griffith is reborn and meets Guts at the hill of swords only to leave upon realizing that the feelings of the moonlight boy interfere with his actions. After fighting Ganishka with Zodd Guts exhausted and wounded his carried on a ship and when he looks out of a window far in the horizon, he sees him. Griffith. This might be the only chance he will ever get to take revenge, he just has to get up and fight. But instead he closes his eyes and rests. And upon departing to Elfheim right afterwards the releases of Berserks chapter slow down drastically.
Kentaro Miura, I believe I didn’t know the man, was also someone faced with that same choice as Guts and Griffith, continue grinding for his life’s work in a lifestyle that’s simply unsustainable or take it easy, still work on Berserk but put his own health and life first. It seems he chose the latter and I’m happy for him.
thinking new trailer proved that Marika is Griffith. But is Miqeulla a savior or lying to ascend to godhood
really disagree that mikkela had anything to do with knight of the black knives. if anything what happened to godwyn seems to have alternately screwed up & motivated his other plans in terms of replacing the corrupted erd tree with the haligtree - a pure, 'unalloyed' holy tree (and god, and lord, and order) wholly removed from the original great tree's roots which introduced the wild & disordered life of the crucible to the erd tree's golden order.
If you haven't I would recommend watching my Eclipse video, that is where I come to that conclusion. If you already did and still disagree with me, that's okay, I'm probably wrong about more than half of this anyway! Thank you for commenting!
Bro just casually busting out the Berserk Bible like that. Subbed.
He’s not as sus as Griffith, that’s for certain.💪🏾💙
Can’t believe you didn’t bring it up but miquella wanted to start a literal eclipse himself and needed radahn to die so the starts can move again to do so. Giving another reason for him wanting malenia to fight him. It’s also one of the biggest things to point to another comparison because of the eclipse miquella wanted.
That is because I don't agree with that interpretation. Check out my Eclipse video for more information. I believe the Eclipse could have already happened, but we know it by the name of the Night of the Black Knives.
@@JackisaMimic but I’m pretty sure the notion that it already happened can be disproven by one of the ghost( I forgot the name of the guys who are blue ghost) who says at castle sol they failed their mission and the eclipse couldn’t happen
I don't believe that every character we meet knows everything, especially ghosts. I would recommend watching the video before making your judgement
@@JackisaMimic so I just watched the video and btw it was great, the effort you put into it is crazy, the only thing is I guess it just depends on the interpretation, it depends on if you truly think miquella wanted to kill Godwyn and basically interpret him as a backstabber to Godwyn, as well as knowing that killing him would somehow sprout the death root, I think when you look at it from either perspective you can definitely see both sides tho, I agree with the theory that miquella may have alterior motives, I just am not sure about the eclipse already happening, as I don’t see another reason as for why malenia would need to go into Caelid, I just don’t think she would blindly fight the strongest Demi god without a good reason (making the stars move) so they can start the eclipse and help godwyn which whom they loved, unless she would be in on it too some way. Also having the ghost at castle sol say they failed and the weapon in which miquella says kindhearted words about godwyn is the only other thing that makes me think otherwise, I understand that it may have been a cruel joke like you said in the video maybe but idk, overall though the theory could make sense especially when miquella is being seen riding torrent in the dlc pic, at this point all of the theories are possible, just not sure where Mesmer falls into all of it though, videos like this are what make this game so great, it’s so cool to try and figure out what’s really going on
Bro is Griffith
Your videos are great have finally been replaying Elden Ring (went off the game as i never really got good at it like other titles as i just used Spirit Summons all the time) and they've been a good listen. Every decision you've made to distinguish yourself from other similar channels has been a real winner, you've clearly got great creative instincts. Although Berserk is obviously ripe ground for Fromsoft speculation I think people really fixate on it. For example people always talk about Artorias purely from a Berserk standpoint when he is clearly (also) influenced by Elric, a series Miyazaki afaik mentioned (trying to) read as a kid.
Happy you're enjoying my videos! Ain't nothing wrong with Spirit Summons, Miquella wanted our Tarnished to have them for a reason.
Bro, of course Miquela ain't Griffith cause he isn't Griffith.
I've never seen a single sign of Miquolla being evil or selfishly ambitious. Its been super obvious that he's a nice guy or trans girl.
Did not age well 😂
Miquella sounds like Bloodraven from A Song of Ice and Fire. Who is theorized to have used his magic to influence many events throughout Westeros, and loves his siter (though probably in a different way to Miquella.) He's also real into blood magic.
I think you have it flipped: Miquella is more akin to Bran and Mohg is more akin to Bloodraven. Check out my latest video where I make the comparison
@@JackisaMimic Just checked it out.
Good stuff. This was the first vid of yours I watched, definitely have to check out your others.
The Bastard-Omen parallel was really good.
You briefly mentioned that the parallels between Miquella and Bran could be their own video, I was wondering if you were planning on doing that video or any other ASOIAF-ER comparison videos in the future, they sound interesting.
Currently I was going to do member's only videos about the ASOIAF/ER comparisons and then do more refined public videos after Shadow of the Erdtree. I think the comparisons will be much stronger once we have the DLC and make for much more interesting videos, even though the connections are already interesting.
Here is one that you might like: there was a Night's Watchmen in Game of Thrones (the show) who was tied to a magical tree, cut deep into the chest with black knives made of obsidian by women who were akin to tree elves, long lived and seldom born like the numen, and then the man was transformed inoto the Night's King: a White Walker who could summon the dead back to life and eventually would invade the kingdoms of man.
Do you like Zullie the Witch? She found that the GameID name in Japanese for the Tibia Mariner's is something very interesting: Night King's Kin
ruclips.net/video/Y2j5NwgXpnE/видео.html
Can't win 'em all.
Yeah, the appearance means relatively little when the previous stand in for Griffith in Dark Souls was Gwyn who couldn't be further from the appearance pf Griffith but who's linking of the fire is direct mirror to the eclipse and even takes place after Artorias, his Guts, leaves him.
Gwyn really looks like Ganishka, but obviously he is supposed to look like and be like Zeus. They just happen to share those same hollow eyes that really stand out
This is great! I’m glad you covered this cause I was so sure of myself. Your theory makes a lot of sense.
Thank you, happy this all made sense lol. I was worried that people wouldn't like this theory, glad to be proven wrong!
I think you're really onto Miquella here Jack, love the theories. I've always posited that Miquella compelled Mohg to 'steal him away' because he needs the Formless Mother's womb to be reborn as his true Empyrean form. The fact that Miquella fed his failed Haligtree his own blood definitely connects well with the blood sacrifices of the Mohgwyn faction.
Miquella is an Empyrean destined to become a God. He dealt with the other Empyreans in various ways, but had to enter the Shadow-world to deal with the last guy(DLC boss). Which is what we'll help him do(like we helped Ranni), or kill him.
Miquella is a weird one. It almost seems like he set up the fight between Melania and Radahn. He gets kidnapped which leaves a trail south for Melenia to follow leading to the battle between the pair, we can also surmise that Melania wasn't interested in great runes as she left Godrick alive. Radahn keeps the stars/heavens in place locking everyone's destinies in place as well. (Ranni's Moon/Miquella's Eclipse) so maybe he believed in her abilities to kill Radahn and enable the next stage of his plans.
From the DLC promo page - "And now Miquella awaits the return of his promised Lord"
Malenia's failure to defeat Radahn, I think, was all part of Miquella's plan. The Tarnished chosen by Torrent is his promised Lord, set in the flows of Causality to meet Miquella in the Land of Shadow.
Miquela reminds me a lot of Bakkalon, the Pale Child and the dark god of the Steel Angels in the 1000 worlds grrm series. He is a god of war and strength, and the angels use his name to wage war across the stars and conquer various alien species.
As he should! This is a character that GRRM has written MANY times, he appears in a ton of his stories.
I just starting reading Miyazaki's favorite GRRM novel, Fevre Dream, and I wish I had read it sooner. Not only is Miquella in this book, but so is Messmer. Also, its just a really good book, some of the best horror writing I have read.
noice shout out to @ontos99 i am here for the deep tissue lore massage we be getting from you all 💜
He makes great videos and doesn't get the amount of attention he deserves. My channel is only slightly larger than his but if one more person watches his videos because of me I think its worth it.
right back at you, @@JackisaMimic as you enmesh traditional story bits with your beautifully curated thot pieces so harmoniously, i wish you the wildest of success with your channel 🫡💜 much love, you awe-mazed genius
Bro, Patches is a God! He's a trickster, archetype of change and revealing lies.
Well put together, definitely got me on board with the explanation. Thought the car exchange was exactly how it should have been handled lol.
This is a quality channel with quality videos man
Thank you! Happy you enjoy my work!
God I thought that was my cat yelling. He is very quiet so I go to check on him he's just sitting in my recliner looking at me like I'm acting weird.
Sorry about that lol
Babe wake up jack is a mimic dropped another video!
I've been saying this for a while but we definitely have been playing in Miquella's palm and another thing I think is that Miquella and Marika might be more alike in that sense and that could be why he is the most feared Demi-god.
Could listen to you talking about this all day, amazing video
Thank you! Please consider watching my other videos if you haven't!
this is such a fresh and sound theory! great video, can’t wait to see more of your stuff!!
Thank you! If you enjoyed this please consider watching my other videos, everything I produce I try to make unique but still accurate as I can without stepping too far into headcanon.
Yes he is griffith, his obsession with radahn is proof.
the cat part was the best!!! great video!!
Thank you! The cat part is ALWAYS the best part!
I'm thinking St.Trina is a severed part of Miquella, same as Millicent is Malenia's severed pride and Radagon is Marika's severed something(zeal maybe?). Melina might be someone's severed something too. It keeps with the theme of gardening. Can't graft something without pruning.
I think it's something devs as well as artists that take inspiration from others do... What inspires them, sometimes it's inverted to a different deeper cause. But all the outer similarities draw in your intrigue. They're not the same 1 for 1 like you said, but there was definitely surface level inspiration in the character taken from Griffith without a doubt, all those first similarities you mentioned are not a coincidence. They just inverted their inner character traits, motivations, and "alignment" and kept the outer similarities.
I 100% agree, that’s why was I very charitable and listed nearly a dozen similarities between the characters, but to me it’s surface level and we can’t predict Miquella’s motivations by looking at Griffith.
Loving the video. Always prefer it when ppl analyse the story and characters, not just call out characteristics and timetables
Thank you! Happy you liked the video! While we don’t know much about these characters I think we can make decent inferences on what they may have been like.
My Carian video will be a timeline video, but it’s going to also look into who each character is as people to deduce why they chose which side in the Shattering.
I hope you stick around for that one!
@@JackisaMimic definitely looking forward to more of your videos!
Cool theory man. I'm suprised this never crossed my mind because when you laid out your premise it made total sense.
Thank you, I'm glad it resonated with someone else and it wasn't too crackpot!
You’ve pointed out some details from the manga that I didn’t even notice 😮 ❤
I love this theory even more after the DLC announcement! I think you’re spot on
Thank you! Happy you think so!
While just hearing the name Griffith makes my blood boil, I will gladly watch an Elden ring video about Miquella. Also very accurate description of Beserk.
Idk, I still kinda feel halfway between. I think the real answer, until the DLC proves otherwise, is to assume that both characters took inspiration from Griffith. I don't see them making Mogh SO different from Griffith physically, sharing no character similarities other than the imprisonment, AND putting the Rot Twins in the same game. I can see the idea being used, but ultimately, Mogh's Falconia is a small place that we tear through and effectively destroy. And Griffith's goal was ALWAYS to rule, not just after he went through those horrible acts which I cant even type here. And again, he succeeds. Hell, he succeeds TWICE. As Femto he ascended beyond Godhood and stood against SK and Ganishka, as the Millenium Falcon he ruled over the lands. To be Mogh, he'd have had to have been killed by Guts during their first encounter post-Eclipse. If anything, Causality itself, not Miquella, set the stage for this theorized rebirth, tho you could argue that outside Aggressors pushed certain buttons to increase the likelihood of one result.
Meanwhile, not only does Miquella look like him, not only does he have the Behelit-like egg, but even Malenia basically looks like Griffith with red hair. Uses a single sword, as well. If you want to tie it to Berserk, you could say that Miquella is basically the Femto inside Melania, and would've eventually killed her to enable his ascension. And that doesn't conflict with the Eclipse story, OR the idea that Miquella is playing 4D chess. And beings of the right lineage have been shown able to split themselves, or have two halves (Marika). Maybe that primeval voice has control of Miquella, like how the Godhand penetrated Griffith's psyche. Granted, they didnt REALLY ramp it up until he was psyologically broken, they were always there, or at least Void was. Void can claim Causality, but Apostles 100% helped push Griffith over the edge he was always teetering on. Would he have sacrificed The Band for his kindgom 2 years earlier? Probably. Would he have "Eclisped" them? Doubtful. And if Void truly wanted Causality to determine his fate, he wouldn't have allowed Apostles to interfere in Guts' journey to save Grif.
There's a million different ways you could interpret it, whereas so far we've only discussed theories based in Berserk lore. Though it would be cool to start the DLC by going to Moghwyn Palace, being met by Gowry and Millicent, at which point you're transfered into this astrological plane of horrors where Gowry, Millicent, and the somehow barely-living Malenia are consumed by the blood and fed to a now-revealed full power Miquella. However, that is a bit on the nose.
Well the real secret is that all of this discussion about Berserk is a waste of time because the lore was written by someone who’s never read Berserk lol
Elden Ring’s lore and story is such a GRRM story, and that’s the lens I view the game. This was just a fun way to talk about the lore and present a theory, while also comparing and contrast Griffith to Miquella.
Miyazaki may think that Miquella is a Griffith type character, but I don’t think he is. What’s so amazing about Elden Ring is that this is Miyazaki’s interpretation of a GRRM story, as a huge fan of both this is like the best thing ever. This game’s story is so similar to GRRMs other work it’s like a Rosetta Stone for me haha
Every SINGLE time I hear that Berserk score 😢😭
I've been checking out your Miquella and the Eclipse video and now this one, and I'm really impressed both by the quality of the editing, narration and how the lore is analyzed. Good stuff. I also wanted to offer my own idea of the timeline because it got discussed toward the end and it's a big pet peeve of mine.
In the short timeline argument you said that you think the Crucible was the first thing to exist, then the comet that sent down the Elden Beast which became the Elden Ring, and then everything else. In my opinion this is most likely wrong, because the Crucible as it is described doesn't seem to be something that exists independently from the Greater Will, and therefore my timeline goes that the first event that happened was the comet with the Elden Beast that hit a lifeless, empty planet, then the Crucible was created from the site of the impact and started creating life as directed by the runic metaphysical order enforced by the Elden Ring, and then various forms of life started emerging. First the dragons, who ruled the world with Placidusax as firs Elden Lord, then the beastmen who served them, then the first demi-humans and finally humans, who created the various civilizations in the Lands Between until Marika's ascension who replaced the dragons with the humans as rulers of the world.
My source behind this timeline is that both Ordovis' Greatsword and the Gilded Greatshield from Godrick Knight describes the Crucible as Golden, right from the very start. The primordial matter that was the Crucible possessed a particular tint of reddish gold, said to be close to life itself (obviously, since it's the source of all life), and the presence of Gold reveals the influence of the Greater Will and its constructs. The Elden Beast and its golden fire and insides, the Elden Ring which is a golden rune, the Ancient Dragons who have golden skin beneath their rocky skin and can be seen on Placidusax's wounds and the regular dragons' wings, and finally Placidusax's own golden breath that looks the same as the Elden Beast.
The Crucible, then, is revealed as another Golden construct born from the influence of the Elden Ring. The Crucible Spells of the Crucible Knights are placed in the same in-game group as all the other Golden Order incantations, including Radagon's fundamentalism and the primordial Elden Stars incantation, because they are all, indeed, golden spells tied to the Greater Will and generally powered by Faith (with only Fundamentalism setting itself apart).
There should be no life before the Crucible and the Beast bearing comet because the Crucible is explicitly described as the source of all life, and only very few living things exist with no relation to the Crucible/Erdtree, such as the Albinaurics who set themselves apart for silver blood and being man-made. If the Nox bleed red that means they too were created long after the arrival of the Elden Ring and the Crucible.
Finally, the Crucible is the primordial form of the Erdtree, and the phrasing on that always made me understand that there couldn't possible be other Erdtrees before the Shattering, when the tree started releasing seeds and Minor Erdtree started popping up, and like there was one Crucible there could also have been only one Erdtree, which is the one we see in-game. There can be no Great Tree that existed before the Erdtree because it'd be a regular form of life that comes before the origin of all life, and the Great Tree is really meant to be understood as a mistranslation and another way to refer to the Erdtree, specifically when it comes to the giant root system under the ground.
Most of what you said I think is plausible, its very chicken and egg. My distinction comes from the Elden Ring being the embodiment of Order and the Crucible Knight Greaves describing the Crucible as being Chaotic, the combination of the two creating orderly life.
The only real point I will dispute with you is that there couldn't be Erdtrees before the Shattering and my main piece of evidence is the amount of Erdtree Seeds and where we find them. One of the Keepsakes we can choose is a Golden Seed, so presuming our Tarnished came from outside the Lands Between that Seed did as well.
We have Roderika who gifts us a Golden Seed, either she found it lying around or as an expatriated noble it was a family heirloom she brought with her to the Lands Between and decided to gift it to us.
We also find two golden seeds in Farum Azula, now these are tough to place because did they seeds land there after the Shattering of the Elden Ring? When did Farum Azula get impacted with a meteor and get stuck beyond time, was it before or after the shattering?
So I think we have multiple pieces of evidence of Golden Seeds possibly existing through the Lands Between before the Shattering.
Thanks for engaging and I am happy you enjoy my videos! Hope to see your insight in future videos!
@@JackisaMimic My interpretation is more like the primordial earth that existed before the Crucible and the Elden Ring, what ancient religions would refer to as primordial chaos, as in the state of the world before creation, was the state of pure chaos. The One Great when all things were melted together and were undistinguished. The Crucible is the first step in ordering the world by creating life and giving distinct shapes to what used to be pure chaos, it holds within itself chaos but gradually orders it by creating life.
On the Golden Seed argument I was initially agreeing with you, because my reasoning for my previous argument was really only based on the Golden Seed description and how the Erdtree released seeds once the Shattering happened, as if implying that wasn't a thing that happened before that. That "implying" part wasn't 100% sure stuff though, so I thought the argument might have been not completely air tight. Golden Seeds might have still been a thing before the Shattering even with that description saying what it was saying.
However, I've recently been replaying the game for the DLC, and I ran across the Cerulean (and Crimson) Seed Talisman, which states "The Erdtree was once perfect and eternal, and thus it was believed that Erdtree seeds could not exist", which really seems to double down, more explicitly than the Golden Seed description, that Erdtrees outside of the big one weren't a thing in the time when the Erdtree was at its full power, which is reasonably before the Shattering. It even explains the reason, the Erdtree was thought to be perfect and eternal and so the idea of needing other Erdtrees was likely thought to be pointless.
So, with that in mind, the reason for the Golden Seed keepsake might just be that Golden Seeds found their way as far away as the lands outside the Lands Between (without even needing to consider the idea that the Golden Seed keepsake might just be a pure gameplay element to give you an extra flask on game start, like the key that allows you to explore the underground tomb even before reaching the surface), and this would also explain Roderika's Golden Seed, while the Farum seeds probably flew there from the Erdtree as well, because Farum is still a physical place flying East of the Lands Between and seeds should just be able to fly there and grow little trees.
I was a little surprised of running into that description only a little after this conversation. Replaying through the game to refresh ideas on the lore really does help.
I think the Erdtree faithful might want to look up what Perfect and Eternal mean because Deathroot and the Flame of Ruin seem to disagree !
I read that item as that was the belief of those in the religion because we know there was a time before the Erdtree. Also, it's just a tree :P
@@JackisaMimic My guess is that by "eternal" it probably means it would have never died without some exceptional outside force like, indeed, the Flame of Ruin, which is why Marika was so determined in stamping out the giants, while "Perfect" would about the Erdtree's power and lack of blemishes before the Shattering. Even the very weakened and diminished Erdtree we see in the events of the game still took both the Flame of Ruin and the restoration of the Rune of Death to burn it down, so an Erdtree at the height of its power with an intact Elden Ring to support it would be even more powerful. Still not literally perfect and eternal, but close enough for most things in the setting.
But regardless of how really eternal the Erdtree turned out to be, it does seem like, according to the very Golden Order believers, the idea of minor Erdtree was considered impossible for a time.
I’m in love with berserk
Thanks for making this video
i was thinking "hey miquella really reminds me of griffith" and then this vid drops. truth be told, i haven't played elden ring yet, but just the design made me think so.
You should definitely play it! It's the closest thing you'll ever get to a Berserk game lol
@@JackisaMimici'll play it once i can! thanks for the vids!
They do have similarities especially his power to compel or allure.
@@JackisaMimicI don't agree on this: as much inspirations as Miyazaki took from Berserk for ER (and the Souls' serie in its entirety, tbf), the few existing Berserk games (almost all confined to Japan, afaik) are "the closest thing you'll ever get to a Berserk game"...
ER is lacking mainly one thing to be compared to Berserk... Guts.
And, no, the Tarnished can't even be compared to Guts.
I don't know, my Tarnished kill God so I think he's close ;)
I really hope Miquellas just a really confused dude. Like he wakes up and is just like “uh why is everyone dead?” “The fuck did I miss!?”
Counterpoint: nuhuh, him Griffith
Actual counterpoint: you gave more reason as to why Miquella manipulating both his warriors and Mohg to serve hia long-term goal of having a kingdom through their own sacrifices actually is more like Griffith than people think.
True, I did! But that’s only if we ignore that Griffith is being manipulated by the God Hand! If Miquella is being manipulated by some Outer God then I think the comparison is apt, but we know Miquella’s shtick is warding away Outer Gods. This is a character attempting to completely control causality and not one who is stuck in the flows of it.
Counter counter point: The guy who wrote Miquella never read Berserk and wrote Game of Thrones lol
Actually George did the world building for everything up to the shattering. Fromsoftware used that base but did their own thing with the current events that we actually play in.
Also with the new trailer they added that Miquellas power over peoples hearts is “most terrifying”.
imagine the plot twist is that Miquella *_doesn't_* betray us
I think that we will something like that
while a great video... it has aged badly with the release of the dlc XD
Wrong
>Has been given prophecy/vision/goal by an old entity
>gets own realm
>changes the world with instating this realm
>is loved by the followers
>sacrifices these followers because they are important to the person
>changes the body after an ritual
You know... I was giving Ranni an bombastic side-eye after just thinking a bit (stupidly) about it 🙃
The reason why I don’t think Ranni fits the Griffith archetype is because she willingly sacrifices herself in a way that Griffith does not.
Griffith has a transformation where he gains a more function and powerful body, but Ranni loses everything. She is housed inside of a doll now, she can’t feel the warmth of the sun, a hug from a friend, the gentle breeze of the wind, the taste of her favorite food.
Although she did perform some sort of death ritual she really didn’t gain much in the deal, she freed herself of a body that could be used as the next vessel for the Elden Ring but she lost all the joys that having a physical body can bring.
@@JackisaMimic I think Ranni also essentially banishes herself in her ending, at least in the Japanese version. She seems to be quite willing to sacrifice herself if she believes it will benefit the world 😊
I’m very torn about her ending, I used to think it was the best one but now I’m leaning towards it not being so benevolent. I think it may be the Ice to the Frenzy endings’ fire: opposites but destructive in their own right
@@JackisaMimic Its about as benevolent as an ending there has ever been in a soulsbourne game, ultimately Ranni gives the lands between the same thing wanted for herself: the freedom to decide ones own fate apart from the influence of an elder God for good or for ill.
@@JackisaMimic I think a key difference between Ranni & griffith is her followers Iji and Blaiid choose to sacrifice themselves for Ranni
Selvis aka Pidia was different but he obviously betrayed Ranni... possibly in favor of Miquella the location of that amber star light shard and Pidia being an Albanauric for whom Miquella had positioned himself a champion of definitely makes it an intriguing possibility. Indeed I have a theory about Miquella having a hand in the night of Black Knives through the Black Knife assassins who were secretly in his service afterall there four living black knife assassins guarding the seal to the haligtree in Ordinia where the Black Knife assassin armor is found. See I think Ranni entered into he conspiracy with the expectation that Radhan was to be slain instead of or addition to Godwyn but the Black Knife Assassins failed to do so under Miquella's orders leaving Ranni's fate suspended and sabotaging her plans for an entire age. This would explain Ranni's apparent falling out with the Black knife assassins and why she imprisoned their leader Alecto on the Moonlight Alter and why Black Knife assassins take out her crew once Ranni frees her fate. It would make sense that Miquella would take steps try and neutralize the one empyrean that stood in opposition to him and his goals...
8:55 "MEOWWWWW!!! 😾" Love Luna's participation! Love your videos btw
Insanely well done video. Would love to see more Berserk content from you
I would like to make more Berserk content! I was thinking of doing an analysis of some of themes in Berserk, is that something you would be interested in?
@@JackisaMimic definitely
Please more berserk lore videos, your voice is so soothing
One sticking point that's irked me since it's come to light is that for all his machinations and seeds sewn, Miquella was spirited away from his Haligtree. It was clear he had a plan for himself and everyone that lived in Elphael to become something more and to grow a tree to rival the Erdtree. To put in all of that effort and being responsible for all those lives only to be ripped away from it doesn't sound like a plan.
Everyone is left in the dark as to what happened and why, and the entirety of the Haligtree is wasting away for a returning Miquella that will never come.
Meanwhile, Mohg has a plan and is in the middle of executing it when we show up. He's got the bloody fingers operation that sews chaos among the Tarnished and those faithful to the Two Fingers, and a captive Emperean. The only problem is that Miquella hasn't responded in all the time he's been held captive. If we are going with the theory that Miquella created this plan for Mohg, why has Miquella never once done anything?
The most obvious answer is that he's either dead from years of torturous forced bloody growth or simply still asleep. Either way, Miquella has no agency.
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he never existed. If you think that Miquella has no agency then I think it proves that he is the greatest schemer of them all.
If you killed the Grafted Scion at the start of the game then you probably fell to your death chasing Nascent Butterflies(check the start of the game, I promise theyre there), you were chosen by Torrent the Spectral Steed, and gifted his previous master's Spirit Calling Bell.
Looks like Miquella's investment is paying off dividends while he sleeps ;)
Check out my Eclipse video if you haven't you may think of Miquella a bit different after that!
I have seen your Eclipse video, and it's great! I'm a big fan of the framing device of a Tarnished investigating and ruminating on what happened before he came along.
My biggest problem with Miquella planning his own kidnapping is that it undermines his plans for the Haligtree. And to what end? Inside his cocoon is a warped, limp, pockmarked form that's been violated by Mohg in every sense of the word.
All this doesn't add up to me. Maybe the DLC will explain why he may have went to such pains, but for now, I can't say it's anything more than the tragic story of ascendant god cut short by the greatest heel in The Lands Between.
my favorite theory about this is that miquella didn't really plan on being kidnapped and he doesn't respond to Mohg because he doesn't want to take part in Mohg's plan precisely because he is a good-natured character
Well we don’t know what his plans are for the Haligtree, it is not out of the realm of possibility that a rotting Haligtree was part of his plan. Just spitballing but what if to cure his sister he needed a large enough vessel to seal the Outer God of Rot, an Erdtree equivalent might do it(just made that up)
As for his body, I don’t think that’s Miquella, at least not anymore. When you defeat Morgott you receive his Great Rune and Remembrance THEN he starts looking like beef jerky like Miquella does. So when the great rune and soul equivalent leaves a demigods body they could potentially turn into that emaciated form.
So while his body may have been violated his spirit and consciousness is somewhere else, and right now I think that place is back in time.
But it’s all speculation until the DLC! If I’m right remember me, if I’m not forgot we had this conversation 😉
Gut's theme hits me every time the vocals start. Sheer perfection for his character.
miquella is griffith
my source; it was revealed to me in a dream
An actual good Channel amongst the 100 other channels that say the same thing over and over 🗣️🔥
Glad you like my unique perspective! Please watch my other videos if you havent!
The fact that you're are trying to make the point that Griffith is just a pawn, proves (to my personal theory at least) that Miquella is inspired of him. Just like Malenia, Miquella IS under the influence of outer influence, via this strange god that puts him into a cocoon, as an insect that can't grow (we see his small wings and insect-like silk on the panel of Mogh abducting him). This state of his, influenced almost all of his future actions by nerfing him to the ground, leading Miquella to try and undo his curse, to achieve his goals, saving Malenia and Godwyn etc... Yes he probably manipulated Mogh in some way but more in the way he manipulated this rich king by litteraly giving himself to him for money, killing him later on. Miquella is not a fool, nor is Griffith who GOT exactly what he wanted in the end: Falconia, the kingdom of his dreams and even more. He was not just a mere pawn but an actor. In the end HE decided, even if everything was set to achieve this outcome.
All that aside, most of the time Fromsoft will just inspire themselves from Miura to create characters. Just as Maliketh, Gael, Blaidd and Artorias who mirror specific aspects of Guts. Miquella if inspired by Griffith, will not reflect 100% of the character in my opinion. I really liked your video nonetheless, very effective to challenge my own theories to, thank you.
Miquella is inspired by Griffith, most definitely. He just isn't Griffith, we can't predict his story by looking at the Eclipse or Falconia, or anything like that.
What you are describing though is all that Causality these characters seem to be interested in! Shadow of the Erdtree is gonna be insane when we see how all of these chains link together!
I think the reason for Miquella residing under Caelid is largely symbolic. Underneath this mighty battle where the strongest of the demigods met in a righteous clash guided by their conviction, is the withered hand of a mastermind, hanging down in the pose of a puppeteer, with webs surrounding the cocoon.
So is it possible that the formless mother (the mother of blood) is what Mohg is enslaved to and being led astray by? Taking Griffith and splitting the character in half for the guiding light as miquella and the sacrificial demon mohg. It’s possible it’s a combination of the two. It could be that Miquella is also manipulating through dreams, but the formless mother is a separate character to the mother of dreams/St. Trina.
You always bring cool ideas and great presentation. I like your usual style a lot, but this is also nice - perfect for a more chill mood :)
Thank you, I'm happy you liked this video! This type of video is much easier to produce but I still want to make more videos featuring the Black Swordsman in the Lands Between, just need to get more DLC info before I commit to another project with him.
@@JackisaMimic makes perfect sense 😄✌️ wish you much joy on your yt journey
Huh...This aged like milk
I don't understand the Miquella and Griffith comparison in the first place. The two charcaters couldn't be more polar opposites.
True.
I understand it from a design pov but other than that I would agree.
7:05 still in the game is the implied connection between Miquella and St Trina, with St Trina only existing in the dreamscape of Miquella, or alternatively Miquella only exists in the waking world of St Trina
Oh yeah I wasn't saying that we can't confirm Miquella = St Trina I was just saying that I don't know if the game is explicit about St Trina and Dreams or if that is just from cut content.
There is so much Elden Ring information its hard to keep it all together sometimes lol
@@JackisaMimic yea misphrased my comment just meant the connection between Miquelon and dreams is still there in the game, just not as obvious as it was in the cut quest with Jigo
Excellent video keep up the great work 👍