Great video and experiment dude! I personally really like the fact that the M and Lux combo seems to promote photography that isn’t only based on wide aperture bokeh appreciation, however it’s more than capable of producing gorgeous out of focus rendering if need be. At the same time, you get better and faster with each shot. If you want a little more accuracy, stop down the lens a bit. If you want both accuracy and more bokeh, a little more time is needed to get it right. All is based on one’s skill and preference. That’s what makes the rangefinder experience so amazing in my opinion, that it promotes learning. Which, at least for me, outweighs the idea for perfect shots every time, especially when it means most of the work is done by the camera.
Dave, Great video and thanks for some inputs you've provided in the past. I ended up getting the 35mm Summilux FLE ii. I did find that when I turn the focus ring to infinity, it does not actually focus correction. I am not sure if it is a chromatic aberration issue, focus beyond infinity, or simply a faulty lens that needs to be recalibrated. This is apparent when viewed through the RF and the Visoflex 2. I need to make small adjustments in order to get the sharp focus. it is a bit annoying, but I still love the lens, since I am using the Leica M11-P (one camera one lens) set up to slow down and pace and rediscover the joy of shooting manual.
I like to stop down a bit. Especially for busy scenes with lots of pumpkins and no clear single subject, hard to even evaluate if you nailed focus or not.
I am debating on buying an M11 to add to my kit [I am a Z9/Z8 user now] After watching this I don't think I will - the focusing just looks far too difficult and too many misses vs the Nikon Z system. Am I missing something??
Dave, thank-you! Still trying to increase my hit rate with the M11 and various lenses. Thanks for keeping it real. Gives me some hope that I am not a complete numbskull when it comes to manual focus on a rangefinder.
Thank you for your honest "confession". I like your videos touching the reality of photography - in contrast to the tuned world of other's who nail focus with the Noctilux almost every time (or do they hammer a nail with their Nocti?). I find the 35mm Summilux comparingly easy to focus wide open at mid distances but it can get very difficult in close to the object or in difficult situations: It can be so hard to focus on eyes with a range finder but it is easy to nail focus on the glasses' frame (straight, contrasty lines). In this cases I do "full body correction", focussing on glasses, leaning slightly forward and done (more often than focussing traditionally - at least). Your pumpkin shots are challenging as well - having repeating lines in the subject, it is easy to align wrong pairs of lines. Luckily the M11 has the function to zoom in in preview with one press of your thumb - that gives - unless not recomposing - an instant feedback on the quality of the shot. And finally - you mentioned it a couple of times - if there is no need to crop, even a semi-sharp image can give a fairly good result.
I have the 35 lux fle and 50 lux asph, and for a while I thought my eyesight was going as i kept on missing focus. Turns out the 50 lux has a cam miscalibration issue…. But even when calibrated right, hitting focus with just the rangefinder is hard. I would rate myself a B- at the moment, but i am sure patience and practice can help.
My brand new 50mm Summilux had a calibration issue and Leica SF replaced it, which was great. Then my 35mm Summilux had a similar issue when I bought it and I had it repaired and haven’t had issues since. It happens, for sure. You’re right too, it is very hard!
I've been owning a 50'lux back and forward for 25 years. I too love the rendering and "look", but at the end of the day, as a primarily people shooter, it is just isn't worth it to me at this point. It is not only the out of focus shot, but imagine the amount of missed shots where you didn't even bother pushing the trigger because you know you hadn't focused properly. Sure, use wide angle and zone focus, but then again, what's the point? I moved on.
Hi Dave, my hit rate with the 35 Lux 1.4 close focus version is about the same as yours, about 8 out of 10. It’s so fun at 1.4. The focus hit rate with my m10 and 35 Lux at f2+ goes up to even higher. I enjoy the lens character at f4 allot as well. Fun video.
Whn I got my M10 2 years ago I made a 365 project so I used my camera every single day just to learn the focusing system. It was a great experience I can recommend. Last week I left my M10 for a Hassy X1DII, but I really like the rangefinder system and I think, as you mention, that the rangefinder system gives a very organic feel to the photos, pin sharp or just a bit out of focus. .)
Thanks for the vid Dave, great experiment and some lovely light with an array of colours. I have the 50mm Summilux and love it. As you say it`s the character of the lens that draws you and not it`s sharpness. I love what the lux does with light and colour and shot as shallow as possible most of the time. This is my second venture into the Leica M system, the first time round I was working professionally and doing a lot of social documentary work, weddings etc all with that natural reportage look and I found it hard using the m9 with a 50 lux and a 28 cron so I sold it on. Now I have retired I have treated myself to a M9 ( NEW SENSOR ) with a 50 lux and a Q. I am loving get back into Leica, they are beautiful cameras and lenses that give you the ability to really appreciate the creative control of photography.
Well, do not simply “tilt” to recompose. Move the camera, as needed, but while preserving the distance from the desired point of focus to the plane of the sensor. This is not easy! And, not always possible or practicable. An obvious solution is to close the aperture, to deepen the DOF. I typically use my Summilux-M 50mm ASPH at either f/1.4, or F/5.6 to f/8. I am no expert. Sometimes I simply cheat, by using a Nikon D5 or D850, with a Micro-Nikkor AF-S 60mm F/2.8G. 😉 Moreover, sometimes we have to choose between “acceptable” focus, and perfect focus.
Thanks for the comments! Recomposing after focus typically works when you're at f/4+, but I was just demonstrating the technical difficulties of it all at f/1.4.
Well, owning both the 35 Summilux and 50 Summilux, the 35mm is relatively easy to focus and get sharp at 1.4, the 50 is a different story, especially when doing a portrait. Non-moving objects are not a problem on either.
Suffice to say that it is not so easy accurately focusing an F1.4 lens with an SLR manually, so the answer is yes it is difficult but not impossible. You also have to consider that this lens is usually used in very low light conditions at its widest. Having xaid all this, With a lot of practice and care, you can get good focus.
I have a CV 35mm f1.5 so about the same as the Summilux. My hit rate is about 50% when pixel peeping but probably good enough when viewing at normal distance. The lens focuses closer than 0.7m but I don’t think that’s the reason for missing focus. I know that when shooting static objects some people take another shot while bending back/forward very slightly. Have you tried that?
Yeah I do that often, but don't always love hitting three shots (what I think is right, bending forward, bending back) for casual shooting. For portraits, I often do this, though.
Hi Dave, thanks for your presentation, but looking to your results I am asking me if a mild camerashake may be the reason for the soft results. The M11 with 60MP is very unforgiving regards mildest movements which results in slightly blurry photos….just some thoughts from my experience…. Best regards from Germany, Ulrich
@@davidherringYour results are interesting. I tested the M11 this summer and mine came out soft just like this when zoomed in. I tried both a 35 cron and 50 lux and even when stopping down between f/5.6 and f/8 and using shutter speeds of 1000 plus I was coming away with soft and weird artifacting. I sent the M11 back because I couldn’t figure out what was going on. I know there’s no IBIS and I knew going in 60MP would require greater steadiness, but coming from the M10R 40MP with NO IBIS I never suffered the same soft results. I felt like I got a “bad copy” because lots of people claim to shooting below 1/100th and getting sharp photos on the M11.. Great video by the way 👍🏻
You know there's a possibility that You didn't missed focus at all but your lens might be having a focus shift issue. You are using the 35mm Sumilux FLE ver 1 right? I also had this issue, the softness shows only when you are focusing more than 3 / 2 meters away with wide open on your lens. I tried 3 summilux black color second hand on my M10-D, and all performed like your lens. In the end I found a silver one that haven't had this issue. The Summilux silver one that I found focuses sharp open wide close or on the far end though it gets a little softer at infinity. I bought the silver one in the end though I really wanted the black one. I might be wrong, but maybe you want to look into this further? PS: the colour is not the source of the quality, of course. If I have to guess it might be because of the time this lens was produced. Again I could be wrong, I'm not a lens expert or anything. Hope this helps.
Thanks for the info! This lens was actually back focusing and I recently had it serviced by DAG and when it's on, it's ON. I have no problem with tac-sharp photos at f/2+, but at f/1.4 it's definitely harder to hit focus and it's so much softer.
The M is a bitch 😉 I’ve been using Ms for my personal work for over 40 years. My hitrate with the M is actually higher than with my A1. Simply because AF doesn’t know you intentions. My advice to M novices is that you practice a lot. On the couch, at the kitchen table…wherever. Use f1.4 only when you need it. Otherwise f4 is a much better starting point. And …practice…
Well-done! Thanks for creating this presentation. I have not been particularly concerned about “hit rate,” with Leica gear, since adding the M system, with an M10 and Summilux-M 50mm ASPH, in early 2018. I understand that I am learning, and that skill requires time and effort to build. I also understand that there is acceptable focus, and then there is perfect focus. The character of a lens matters, too. I can always, if I am expected to “perform,” use a sports/action-oriented Nikkor AF-S lens on a Nikon D5 or D850. 😉 Using a 35mm f/1.4 lens enables a better hit rate than with 50mm. My favorite individual M-mount lens may be my Summilux 50mm ASPH, but, I shoot far more Leica images with 35mm lenses, either the “modern” Zeiss Distagon 35mm f/1.4 ZM, or, for “character,” the Summilux-M 35mm f/1.4 Steel Rim “Re-Edition.” Not that shooting wide-open is always best-suited to the task, anyway. When photographing my young, active grandsons, a best practice can be to use a stopped-down Elmarit-M 28mm f/2.8, mine being Version III, for much classic Walter Mandler character, using the distance and DOF scales on the lens, rather than the rangefinder, to achieve focus. (I do not mean using “hyperfocal,” for every shot, but actively moving the focusing tab, as needed, between MFD, and about 12 to 15 feet, largely by feel, rather than looking at the lens.)
Yeah it's a bit easier with wider lenses to nail focus than with something like a 50mm or greater at 1.4. That said, I love the look of the Summilux lenses and wouldn't get rid of it!
Great video and experiment dude! I personally really like the fact that the M and Lux combo seems to promote photography that isn’t only based on wide aperture bokeh appreciation, however it’s more than capable of producing gorgeous out of focus rendering if need be. At the same time, you get better and faster with each shot. If you want a little more accuracy, stop down the lens a bit. If you want both accuracy and more bokeh, a little more time is needed to get it right. All is based on one’s skill and preference. That’s what makes the rangefinder experience so amazing in my opinion, that it promotes learning. Which, at least for me, outweighs the idea for perfect shots every time, especially when it means most of the work is done by the camera.
Agreed with every word!
The topic you choose is on point. Very good content!
Thank you!
Dave, Great video and thanks for some inputs you've provided in the past. I ended up getting the 35mm Summilux FLE ii. I did find that when I turn the focus ring to infinity, it does not actually focus correction. I am not sure if it is a chromatic aberration issue, focus beyond infinity, or simply a faulty lens that needs to be recalibrated. This is apparent when viewed through the RF and the Visoflex 2. I need to make small adjustments in order to get the sharp focus. it is a bit annoying, but I still love the lens, since I am using the Leica M11-P (one camera one lens) set up to slow down and pace and rediscover the joy of shooting manual.
My 50mm close focus was back focusing right out of the box, but Leica swapped it out for me. Hit them up!
@@davidherring thanks for the reply.
I like to stop down a bit. Especially for busy scenes with lots of pumpkins and no clear single subject, hard to even evaluate if you nailed focus or not.
Thanks for sharing.
I am debating on buying an M11 to add to my kit [I am a Z9/Z8 user now] After watching this I don't think I will - the focusing just looks far too difficult and too many misses vs the Nikon Z system. Am I missing something??
It's tough, but you get better the more you do it. I have no prob focusing this lens.
Dave, thank-you! Still trying to increase my hit rate with the M11 and various lenses. Thanks for keeping it real. Gives me some hope that I am not a complete numbskull when it comes to manual focus on a rangefinder.
Haha we all have hope!
Thank you for your honest "confession". I like your videos touching the reality of photography - in contrast to the tuned world of other's who nail focus with the Noctilux almost every time (or do they hammer a nail with their Nocti?). I find the 35mm Summilux comparingly easy to focus wide open at mid distances but it can get very difficult in close to the object or in difficult situations: It can be so hard to focus on eyes with a range finder but it is easy to nail focus on the glasses' frame (straight, contrasty lines). In this cases I do "full body correction", focussing on glasses, leaning slightly forward and done (more often than focussing traditionally - at least). Your pumpkin shots are challenging as well - having repeating lines in the subject, it is easy to align wrong pairs of lines. Luckily the M11 has the function to zoom in in preview with one press of your thumb - that gives - unless not recomposing - an instant feedback on the quality of the shot. And finally - you mentioned it a couple of times - if there is no need to crop, even a semi-sharp image can give a fairly good result.
For sure! Thanks for the comment.
I have the 35 lux fle and 50 lux asph, and for a while I thought my eyesight was going as i kept on missing focus. Turns out the 50 lux has a cam miscalibration issue…. But even when calibrated right, hitting focus with just the rangefinder is hard. I would rate myself a B- at the moment, but i am sure patience and practice can help.
My brand new 50mm Summilux had a calibration issue and Leica SF replaced it, which was great. Then my 35mm Summilux had a similar issue when I bought it and I had it repaired and haven’t had issues since. It happens, for sure. You’re right too, it is very hard!
I've been owning a 50'lux back and forward for 25 years. I too love the rendering and "look", but at the end of the day, as a primarily people shooter, it is just isn't worth it to me at this point. It is not only the out of focus shot, but imagine the amount of missed shots where you didn't even bother pushing the trigger because you know you hadn't focused properly. Sure, use wide angle and zone focus, but then again, what's the point? I moved on.
Understandable!
Hi Dave, my hit rate with the 35 Lux 1.4 close focus version is about the same as yours, about 8 out of 10. It’s so fun at 1.4. The focus hit rate with my m10 and 35 Lux at f2+ goes up to even higher. I enjoy the lens character at f4 allot as well. Fun video.
Very cool, thanks for sharing! Glad to know I’m not alone 😂
Whn I got my M10 2 years ago I made a 365 project so I used my camera every single day just to learn the focusing system. It was a great experience I can recommend. Last week I left my M10 for a Hassy X1DII, but I really like the rangefinder system and I think, as you mention, that the rangefinder system gives a very organic feel to the photos, pin sharp or just a bit out of focus. .)
Thanks for sharing!
i'm seeing heavy magenta on m11 wb. do you usually change the wb in post?
Yeah if for some reason I shoot in AWB I typically set it to Daylight in LR. Most of the time I shoot 5200K.
@@davidherring m11 series are known for magenta cast quite noticeable.you should change tint slide in post to balance it.
Thanks for the vid Dave, great experiment and some lovely light with an array of colours. I have the 50mm Summilux and love it. As you say it`s the character of the lens that draws you and not it`s sharpness. I love what the lux does with light and colour and shot as shallow as possible most of the time. This is my second venture into the Leica M system, the first time round I was working professionally and doing a lot of social documentary work, weddings etc all with that natural reportage look and I found it hard using the m9 with a 50 lux and a 28 cron so I sold it on. Now I have retired I have treated myself to a M9 ( NEW SENSOR ) with a 50 lux and a Q. I am loving get back into Leica, they are beautiful cameras and lenses that give you the ability to really appreciate the creative control of photography.
That's awesome, thanks for sharing!
If you focus with the rangefinder and then tilt to recompose, your focus point will be out of focus, cause the distance will be different
Well, do not simply “tilt” to recompose. Move the camera, as needed, but while preserving the distance from the desired point of focus to the plane of the sensor. This is not easy! And, not always possible or practicable. An obvious solution is to close the aperture, to deepen the DOF. I typically use my Summilux-M 50mm ASPH at either f/1.4, or F/5.6 to f/8. I am no expert. Sometimes I simply cheat, by using a Nikon D5 or D850, with a Micro-Nikkor AF-S 60mm F/2.8G. 😉 Moreover, sometimes we have to choose between “acceptable” focus, and perfect focus.
Thanks for the comments! Recomposing after focus typically works when you're at f/4+, but I was just demonstrating the technical difficulties of it all at f/1.4.
Well, owning both the 35 Summilux and 50 Summilux, the 35mm is relatively easy to focus and get sharp at 1.4, the 50 is a different story, especially when doing a portrait. Non-moving objects are not a problem on either.
I have both as well, and the 35 is much easier for sure.
Suffice to say that it is not so easy accurately focusing an F1.4 lens with an SLR manually, so the answer is yes it is difficult but not impossible. You also have to consider that this lens is usually used in very low light conditions at its widest. Having xaid all this, With a lot of practice and care, you can get good focus.
For sure! Thanks for sharing!
Having owned both lenses - the 1.4 shot at 2.0 is way sharper than the cron at 2.0.
Thanks for sharing!
I have a CV 35mm f1.5 so about the same as the Summilux. My hit rate is about 50% when pixel peeping but probably good enough when viewing at normal distance. The lens focuses closer than 0.7m but I don’t think that’s the reason for missing focus. I know that when shooting static objects some people take another shot while bending back/forward very slightly. Have you tried that?
Yeah I do that often, but don't always love hitting three shots (what I think is right, bending forward, bending back) for casual shooting. For portraits, I often do this, though.
Hi Dave, thanks for your presentation, but looking to your results I am asking me if a mild camerashake may be the reason for the soft results. The M11 with 60MP is very unforgiving regards mildest movements which results in slightly blurry photos….just some thoughts from my experience….
Best regards from Germany, Ulrich
I was shooting at 1/4000 so doubtful camera shake is going on. But thanks for the comment!
@@davidherringYour results are interesting. I tested the M11 this summer and mine came out soft just like this when zoomed in. I tried both a 35 cron and 50 lux and even when stopping down between f/5.6 and f/8 and using shutter speeds of 1000 plus I was coming away with soft and weird artifacting. I sent the M11 back because I couldn’t figure out what was going on. I know there’s no IBIS and I knew going in 60MP would require greater steadiness, but coming from the M10R 40MP with NO IBIS I never suffered the same soft results. I felt like I got a “bad copy” because lots of people claim to shooting below 1/100th and getting sharp photos on the M11.. Great video by the way 👍🏻
I have the Leica 50 and 35 1.4 and my hit rate has improved over the years at 1.4 but it’s true that if you recompose focus will probably be off.
For sure! thanks for sharing.
You know there's a possibility that You didn't missed focus at all but your lens might be having a focus shift issue. You are using the 35mm Sumilux FLE ver 1 right? I also had this issue, the softness shows only when you are focusing more than 3 / 2 meters away with wide open on your lens. I tried 3 summilux black color second hand on my M10-D, and all performed like your lens. In the end I found a silver one that haven't had this issue. The Summilux silver one that I found focuses sharp open wide close or on the far end though it gets a little softer at infinity. I bought the silver one in the end though I really wanted the black one. I might be wrong, but maybe you want to look into this further? PS: the colour is not the source of the quality, of course. If I have to guess it might be because of the time this lens was produced. Again I could be wrong, I'm not a lens expert or anything. Hope this helps.
Thanks for the info! This lens was actually back focusing and I recently had it serviced by DAG and when it's on, it's ON. I have no problem with tac-sharp photos at f/2+, but at f/1.4 it's definitely harder to hit focus and it's so much softer.
@@davidherring oh ok then there you go, so glad to hear you've solved it! Cheers mate! Great video BTW as always. :)
The M is a bitch 😉 I’ve been using Ms for my personal work for over 40 years. My hitrate with the M is actually higher than with my A1. Simply because AF doesn’t know you intentions. My advice to M novices is that you practice a lot. On the couch, at the kitchen table…wherever. Use f1.4 only when you need it. Otherwise f4 is a much better starting point. And …practice…
Thanks for sharing!
Well-done! Thanks for creating this presentation. I have not been particularly concerned about “hit rate,” with Leica gear, since adding the M system, with an M10 and Summilux-M 50mm ASPH, in early 2018. I understand that I am learning, and that skill requires time and effort to build. I also understand that there is acceptable focus, and then there is perfect focus. The character of a lens matters, too. I can always, if I am expected to “perform,” use a sports/action-oriented Nikkor AF-S lens on a Nikon D5 or D850. 😉
Using a 35mm f/1.4 lens enables a better hit rate than with 50mm. My favorite individual M-mount lens may be my Summilux 50mm ASPH, but, I shoot far more Leica images with 35mm lenses, either the “modern” Zeiss Distagon 35mm f/1.4 ZM, or, for “character,” the Summilux-M 35mm f/1.4 Steel Rim “Re-Edition.” Not that shooting wide-open is always best-suited to the task, anyway. When photographing my young, active grandsons, a best practice can be to use a stopped-down Elmarit-M 28mm f/2.8, mine being Version III, for much classic Walter Mandler character, using the distance and DOF scales on the lens, rather than the rangefinder, to achieve focus. (I do not mean using “hyperfocal,” for every shot, but actively moving the focusing tab, as needed, between MFD, and about 12 to 15 feet, largely by feel, rather than looking at the lens.)
Yeah it's a bit easier with wider lenses to nail focus than with something like a 50mm or greater at 1.4. That said, I love the look of the Summilux lenses and wouldn't get rid of it!
I would like to see comparison shooting with Visoflex
I've never used one!
@@davidherring Time to try then🤣
Which lens is this? The new one? If so I wouldn’t buy it from these photos
35mm Summilux FLE
If you like lens character...You should try the steel rim 35mm summilux!! :-)
Nice! Thanks for sharing!
@@davidherring great video as always bro!
Shooting kids running around with M - I shoot my ‘cron stopped down with zone focus.
This is the way.
whats the video camera setup you are using?
For the pumpkin patch, I was lazy and used my iPhone 15 Pro in ProRes. 😂 For the studio, I used my Sony A7SIII with a DZO Vespid 35mm.
video shots from the start look great for a phone
that could be your next video, how to get that nice look from an iPhone .)
@antonyb I think ProRes on the iPhone is really legit!
To be fair, most of those are soft due to Summilux' "character".
Yeah, for sure. Still my favorite lens.