Shogun Episode 8 Reaction
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- Опубликовано: 2 июл 2024
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00:00 Start
00:08 Pre Discussion
02:12 Reaction
37:16 Review And Discussion
40:47 Outro 
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Actually Toranaga didn't plan to sacrifice Hiromatsu. His death was a consequence of that situation in the last meeting. The other vassals were agains't Toranaga, and one of them was about to draw his sword, so Hiromatsu stepped in and ended the situation.
I see. Mmmm
Overseas viewers are wondering why Toranaga doesn't stop Hiromatsu from committing seppuku, but many Japanese viewers have no misunderstanding. The bond and eye contact between those two is not something so casual. The long and strong eye contact between the two tells us everything.
From Japan
Hiromatsu did what he did to prevent the rebellion of the generals. He didn't know the details, but he trusted Toranaga enough to know that this was all part of a plan. The seppuku wasn't prearranged, it was something that Hiromatsu did in the moment once the generals started objecting. That's why he and Toranaga had such an emotional moment there, Hiromatsu knew what he had to do, and Toranaga was forced to watch his best friend make the ultimate sacrifice without even being asked. I would bet that Hiroyuki Senada put a special focus on this scene (he's the producer in addition to playing Toranaga.) It reminds me of the part in "47 Ronin," when Oishi kills Lord Kira (Tadanobu Asano, who so hilariously plays Kaisigi Yabu in "Shogun",) who was responsible for Oishi's liege lord being forced to commit seppuku. He stabs him in the gut, slowly disemboweling him, and says something to the effect of, "Only now do you understand the depth of my lord's courage." Which, while I'm on that tangent, "47 Ronin," is a weird fucking movie, man. It's like two films in one, that you're forced to watch together at the same time. There is a really good one that's giving us the 47 Ronin story starring Hiroyuki Senada, and the other film is a crappy Hollywood dragons-and-magic adventure film featuring Keanu Reeves. WTF is that about?
26:00 Toranaga did them dirty, I have to say. The courtesans deserve a better class of neighbor 😆
Take into consideration they are doing all of this to avoid certain death. Hiromatsu's sacrifice at that moment has a powerful meaning, since it helps tricking Toranaga's enemies, instead of dying pointlessly in the battlefield for example. More than that, he stops the other men in the room to rebel (notice how they were grabbing their swords just before Hiromatsu intervenes) and makes sure that Buntaro stays loyal to Toranaga.
Yup.
34:00 - I would say H was a rook if not the queen in a chess metaphor. That was his oldest, closest, most trusted friend and his chief deputy.
I can't express enough how much I appreciate Buntaro just as a character. He is absolutely aggravating and confrontational, the kind of person you just can't stand being around. When he's introduced he gives the audience the impression that he is an abusive husband (I don't know if that's the case or what). But we also see his good qualities as one of Toranaga's most loyal warriors, willing to sacrifice himself at the drop of a hat to protect the group. The whole show is filled with moments of good and bad from him, showing his complexity as a human. They just don't write characters like this anymore.
AGREED
He is very complex and many of the characters are imo
Fuji is my emotional support ❤
❤️
I think the strength of the show is allowing us to have complicated feelings towards complicated characters. Bunatro is both an honorable warrior and an abusive husband (that’s not debatable as we’ve seen him be physically and verbally abusive towards Mariko). We can feel for him during the tea ceremony but not forget why Mariko rejects him so thoroughly. Anyway, you all have become my fave Shogun reactors, excited to see how you feel about the next ep!
Thank you and thats honestly well said.
Best post reaction diskush for this episode across the EweTube. Hiromatsu-sama's seppuku was tragic (and graphic), but we all need to be talking about how much that (and every other little thing) plays right into Toranaga-sama's plan.
"My grabdma used to say bars like this. "
LMAO that was unexpected!
Grandma: Any where him go me na wan go
Us: But granma dont you wanna go to heaven?
Grandma: ME SAY! Where him go. Me na wan go!
Thats was the specific story lol
He definitely sacrificed his Bishop. You're right he was a powerful piece but the Queen is Mariko. He told her right there at the end it's time to move her into position. The bishop set up the check. Mariko is gonna help them get that checkmate 👍🧐
Lol you’ve never played chess, huh? He’s clearly setting her up to sacrifice as well. You don’t sacrifice your queen. She’s nothing more than a pawn as well. Best case shes a knight that he can position in the opponents territory. Toranaga is the queen and the heir is the king he’s desperately trying to protect.
@@zimvader25 The heir is not on the chessboard. And yes, you can sacrifice the queen if doing so wins you the game. Mariko's death will make the other regents abandon Ishido. He will end up fighting alone against Toranaga, just like it happened with Ishida Mitsunari during the Sekigahara battle.
@@zimvader25clearly you don't know how the story actually is. Toranaga is the real king, he's sacrificing his queen aka Mariko, his greatest piece as a crimson sky. Of course he wishes she would survive it but chances are low but Mariko is prepared for it.
Also, the heir is not the king, as toranaga becoming the shogun, the heir and ochiba eventually did committed sepukku.
Mariko isn’t the queen in this scenario. True he mates Ishido (sp?) with her, but you don’t always mate with your queen. Sometimes you sac the queen and mate with a lessor piece.
17:19 Yeah, this episode is full of moments like that. The writing is just SO GOOD; It doesn't excuse anything and still has you feeling for these characters.. and then, 'oh yeah, he keeps a book about the ways he kills people' or 'I forgot he beat his wife.' This just might be the best show I've ever seen. p.s. Love your reactions!
I think, John, in terms of being predictable is that he won’t let anything happen to Marico. Just a thought.
Yabushige really is the best character in the show so far
Mad respect to Hiromatsu. I always see seppuku as ridiculous i'm not gonna lie, but this time Hiromatsu did it to save the whole plan.
Broken to the fist master class 😂😂😂😂
Love you guys. Thank you
Day 2 of posting this until yaboyrocklee reacts to ‘a sign of affection’
Haha. Patreon is taking suggestions under the free membership. If you’re really serious. Thats where i talk about next shows cuz i actually talk and check back. RUclips i am at mercy of notifications and algorithms
@@YaBoyRockLee ohh thanks i will check it out! I kinda hoped u wouldn’t see my comment until like day 50 or something 😂
You guys are reading too much into characters not making eye contact. In many of these scenes, it wouldn't be proper for the characters to face each other directly or lock eyes given the historical setting. More generally in many non-western cultures, not meeting someone's eyes while talking to them isn't a sign of disrespect/distrust, while sustained eye contact can actually be offensive. I have to consciously work on this whenever I'm in the US -- I keep automatically looking away to be polite, and have to remind myself that it's the other way around here.
Appreciate your opinion