More Spark = More power? Dyno tested
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 3 сен 2021
- Dyno testing Spark, Plugs, Gaps, Coils etc.
Test engine Spec:
Modified early bigport head
Kelford 193b 9.2/8.5mm 284/278 @ .3mm
Toda valve springs
Toda inlet cam gear
Redtop bigport block with 10.3:1 smallport pistons
Toda 3.7kg flywheel
Maxpeedingrods connecting rods
Link G4 ecu
47mm itb long runner
Garage 4age Header and 3" exhaust
Get merch: garage4age.creator-spring.com/
@garage4age 
Авто/Мото
![Luke Combs - Ain’t No Love In Oklahoma (From Twisters: The Album) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/J6YlaeACE4E/mqdefault.jpg)
If you have been thinking about helping me out buying some merch. The merch store has a 10% discount for the next few days using "sunset" as the discount code. garage4age.creator-spring.com Also currently looking into an NZ based store, as had a few people wanting buy local.
You should try iridium spark plugs too. Everyone says you'll get more power just by installing iridium spark plugs, but I think it's bullshit.
The reality behind ignition upgrades is that when you've got boost you get to a point where you need to close the gaps to stop the misfiring. Closing the gaps is bad because the burn time increases slightly. When you upgrade the ignition you can actually increase the gap without misfiring, the bigger gap gives a quicker burn and at the same time you can retard the timing slightly to compensate for the quicker burn, then you get more power by eliminating some negative work.
I kinda wished he would have gone back to the stock ignition system first and tested that ??
The hidden problem is people will use cheap coils because REAL individual coils are crazy expensive. Other tests have shown china clone coils are mediocre at best. That's usually a step backwards.
@@hydrocarbon8272 You're not even close to the truth.ruclips.net/video/2ig8wQ9uRvc/видео.html Junkyard parts.
If your running boost just run High Fire Coil packs or an HEI ignition system for a car with a distributer, and this cold plug for boost and NoS to is totally wrong you want the hottest plug you can get, Hot plug= clean burn which = more HP, I ran NoS for years and years always ran HoT autolites never ever had any problems with my race car when I had to run Motorcraft my car was 0.1 of a second slower in the 1/8 mile so plugs do make a slight difference in power it’s not huge but there is a difference
That is sort of true.
Sure, more boost means you need a better spark, thus better ignition coils will benefit.
But when it gets to the plugs, it's mostly about the heat generated from the engine/combustion. The gap is minor when considering what the plug has to achieve, the coils give that extra power.
The key is how much heat the plugs have to transfer to the zyl. head.
To little heat transferred means, plug gets to hot, melts.
To much heat means, plug stays to cold...
And that's where the importance of the heat range of a spark plug comes from. Wamer and colder plugs. The 'to cold' plug will not be able to reach it's self cleaning temp to get rid of combustion disposal and thus, misfire.
Love the channel, you bring us forward ✊
Thank you for the video bud. I was the person that requested to try different plug gaps
0.63mm
You Sir are awesome that must been a days work to shoot this video. Thanks for blowing myths up with real experimentation, no bull shit just let the dyno do the talking.👍🇭🇲
I'd like to see "copper" AKA nickel vs double platinum vs laser iridium vs ruthenium. Same heat ranges, same gap, same design. The fine tip and rare metal plugs can have the same affect as slightly increased timing, so it would be cool to see if that is born out on your dyno.
Same same
Oooh, this would be a really good comparison. I'd love to see it happen!
all bunk. IF it is lit, it is LIT.
Same
@@billshiff2060 That's certainly not the whole story.
Amazing work, thanks so much!
Love your vids brother!!! you nailed it with that conclusion!!! wish i had a dyno to play with during lockdown. sux here in nz atm..
Great job bro, keep up the good work.
Beautiful ride and sounds amazing 🙏🏼
Love it, interesting and different result then i was expecting tbh. Thanks!
Years ago I ran a set of Halo plugs on my V6 Jackaroo, they were supposed to give way better economy on the (thirsty) 3.5V6. Made no F'n difference, but I fondly remember that vehicle because the V6 was smooth and sweet and had some grunt when above 3500. 148Kw in 1998 was the duck's guts. It did like fuel, but never needed a spanner in 160,000ks. Then it got a timing belt, and 4 of the valves were a couple of thou out. Brilliant.
Was only just investigating this. Thanks.
Good watch, as my high school auto teacher knew said, "a spark is a spark" the results support that entirely
I’ve run tests on plugs and in order to see gains you need to have an application where it’s high output or near the limit scenario. Lower compression NA applications do not show gains. I’ve seen legitimate 5whp on 93 octane cars that make about 375whp and are turbo but they were a different type of plug. This showed the highest gain rather than heat range or coil differences. Lower temp heat range just helps prevent pre ignition.
Great vid
I'd definitely like to see the big spark gap and high mJ coil test done again as an fuel economy test. A larger plug gap, with a higher output coil should allow you to run an ultra lean mixture at low load / low throttle position and improve highway cruise economy. -The performance potential of a large spark plug gap is very small, the fuel economy improvement with lean burn limits being extended lower should be more significant.
Very good to know! Great video thank you!
Keep going 🔥👍🏼
thank my friend best regards from france
That was a very informative and helpful video. Thanks you! ❤️😎
Nice. I really wanted to see this. Thanks m8
Great content mate!
I've done some experiments on various vehicles I've owned over the years...
A capacitive discharge ign like MSD will run better than stock.
Opening up the spark plug gap .005" (about 0.1mm) ignites the mixture better.
A high energy coil will give improvement as well.
Heat range on plugs should be just high enough to prevent carbon fouling when mixture is properly adjusted.
...My experience
Its also important to note that Heat Range in spark plugs is a supporting mod to prevent detonation at high loads, rather than a horsepower source...
Yeah thats what I was trying to say at the start of the video
Pre ignition not detonation.
@@1magnit knock knock
@@BadAssEngineering You can't hear pre ignition because the burn starts before the plug fires. You can only hear detonation as it's an explosion of the end gas
@@1magnit pre-ignition is detonation as the flame burns with a precompressed zone
great vid, always wondered about this
great video !!
amazing videos, thanks for the info
Great video! Modifying the spark plug's ground electrode to a 'side gap' would have been an interesting test.
Really useful video
I love this type of content. +1 sub.
Keep going. 💪
i could listen to a 4age come on song alllll day, very awesome
When the magnetic field collapses in the ignition coil the voltage rises across the plug gap until it sparks ,,,, wider gaps equal higher breakover voltage and will damage the ignition coil or cdi unit ...It doesn't affect the speed of the burn , any timing affects you might encounter are due to l/c time constant ...Heat range is how fast the plug can dump heat into the head ...You want a plug that runs hot enough to clean itself , without causing preignition...Reliable spark and timing is critical to any internal combustion engine , but a "racing" ignition system wont make your car any faster than a healthy oem one...
👍👍
I just love the sound of the 4age. Want to find headers for my 85 mr2. Might have to make them.
Great test! I've been modding a little bike for a while and always wondered the same.
Were they any differences regarding smoke?
Cool stuff
The primary function of the ignition system is consistent spark. What happens in the cylinder with regards to the ignition system is probably the least understood area by most people.
The two best upgrades, which will still only give small power increases, are small centre electrode (projected if conditions will allow) with set back earth strap and sequential programmable timing.
Electricity will always follow the path of least resistance. Worn standard plugs have rounded edges because the spark erodes the electrode over time. So obviously that means the spark is moving round a lot. A set back earth strap is to allow more space for the flame kernel to propagate. Some engines respond to plug indexing. Indexing is for two reasons. So there isn't any plug treads in the chamber to cause hot spots. And to position the earth strap. Earth strap position depends on chamber layout. Not really an issue in a pent roof 4 valve. A lot of people don't realise the spark moves on the earth strap with ignition advance.
Sequential ignition timing is most helpful in shared unequal inlet runner situations and fine tuning for temperature variation to avoid detonation on hot cylinders.
Massive output coils are best suited to poorly tuned fuel curves. Or high cylinder pressure alcohol.
Big gaps and cold plugs will always cause trouble unless the engine really needs them.
Spend money on just everything else first if you're looking for gains
Electricity does NOT take the path of least resistance, it takes many paths but the easiest path has the most flow and the hardest path has the least flow. Platinum or iridium plugs always give the best spark due to the needle tip electrodes which require less voltage.
@@1magnit So what you're saying is electricity will flow along the path with most flow?
@@1magnitYou're saying the same thing with more words
@@nooooooooooo6uoki67 no
Bang on!
Emgine bay looks cleaner with those fancy coils for when you hard park it bro
Sick bruh
word brah
What does hard Park it mean?
When you park
But like
Super hard
@@garage4k989 bahahahah
Nice videos!! I have a 3SGTE and think in changes the distribuitor for COP, and thinking now, not is necesary (only changes for oil leaks)
I love this types of video's 😍
Tested this on a Honda Grom once, I tested different shape spark plug tips instead of heat range. It did make a difference, could get a few MPH faster top speed on one vs another.
Yeah, just because wind or atmospheric pressure variations.
So, some motorcycle racing friends clued me in on the REAL secret to "faster" plugs. Some plugs take up more of the availbe combustions space, increasing compression. They would measure "too long" plugs, to see how much they could protrude before hitting piston (accounting for expansion!!!). Beware, this is not for the amatuer. But some plugs that are less 'hollow' than others seem to so the same.
@@nobodynoone2500 I think there are easier ways to get more compression, why did they chose this one ?
@@C4H10N4O2 With the very small combustion chamber it could make a bigger difference if the plugs take up more or less room. And, if there isn’t anything else you can do gaining that little bit extra can be important.
@@C4H10N4O2 A plug swap which takes two minutes has GOT to be easier than any other method I can think of, eg changing gaskets, changing pistons, machining cylinder heads or cylinder blocks. The engine strip options have got to be better though, they are relatively permanent and don't feature a spark plug sticking too far out and disrupting air flow.
WOW thats very cool.... love your testing !!!!!!
it would also be very cool if you could test how much indexing spark plugs will affect the Torque/Power
and also test the myth of side gapping spark plugs
that would be sooooo cool if you would bring light in the dark of those myths !!!
I was meant to test that in this vid but tbh I totally forgot. But since going from a 0.2mm gap to a 2.5mm gap didn't do anything. I think we can assume indexing and side gapping will have the same effect, at least on this engine anyway. Also when i gapped the plugs to 2.5mm the spark would have been going off to the side, can see it in the video the closest point between electrode and strap is off to the side rather than straight down. this is where i measured the 2.5mm also.
The work you do on this Dino is more interesting then CERN
Proof its all about ign timing and advance control.
hey i like your content!
Very insightful video, thanks a ton as usual. I was actually looking to get the EXACT same plugs that came on my car stock, as it's due for a fresh set. But this video has made me realise that getting a set with matching specs will do just fine.
Interesting!!
Great vids. I remember doing testing like this but at the race track with track times. Changing parts in the pits and yadda yadda. From building 4/6cyl and V8's. Testing with more spark smaller piston and displacement engines dont have really high cylinder pressures. The small cylinder volume and small chamber size is a tight space so combustion would be way simpler and easier to complete. Larger area such as a bigger bore and having larger valve will make the chamber larger so it would have a larger overall volume. It would make combustion harder to achieve. Also sucking in more displacement of oxygen you have to add more fuel hence it will make combustion more complicated so the shape of the chamber becomes very important
Look up Paschen's law. Explains part of what you are talking about. The other part is about fuel atomization, flame front propagation, and a homogenous mixture.
Please run differrent types of spark plugs. For example Standard Denso vs Standard NGK, Denso Twin Tip (TT) vs NGK V-Line (with V groove on electrode) and Iridum vs Standard.
Me when doing an extremely dodgy job rigging up an auxillary distributor to run off the front of the cam gear which will distribute the spark timed by the gutted remains of the distributor at the back of the head: *"It will either work or it won't, it won't make any difference to the power"*
Only time I have seen some gains is when a friend switched from scatter spark system (aka dizzy) to a crank trigger and LS coils. Simple reason like the name implies, the spark advance is consistent and not scattered like the dizzy due to mechanical lash.
Awesome video I'm myself run AC Delco rapid fire spark plugs in all of my GM vehicles but I've been hearing that NGK plugs can help build torque any comments are welcome as always peace ✌️ and much respect to you Jason
The good news,, you got the most visitant running engine in the world
did you try dual or quad electrode spark plug?, i think to try some ones in a old car carburated, if are capatibility
Do u reckon u guys can do a bit more stuff about black and silver top motors
Excellent work. Too bad you didn’t have a set of those e3 diamond fire plugs :p could show how those don’t make power either.
Thanks for sharing.
You must’ve done something wrong though. Package clearly says improves power and efficiency.
V6 charger dudes will swear that their stage 8 Ngk spark plug conversion makes them as fast as a Hellcat.
Only reason for me going on cop is a clean engine bay. And that's the same reason i want sooner or later to go for a pedal box as well(brake booster already removed)
even when i hear about spark system upgrade i get something about increase engine responde and a better burn
more whe you start to get high compress ratio, where the sparks goes harder to keer the spark
Great video.
Confirms something that I've stuck with for years. If the ignition system is working, reliably, putting in something scarier, that you can weld with, isn't going to do anything for power. 👌
We ran a well maintained and adjusted points ignition system for season after season on a Datsun 1600 rally car, years ago, and had outright and class wins with the car in a time when others spent $1000 ignition computers to do the same job 🙂👌
Most modern OEM systems are great without changing components.
I heard that some people actually use aviation-sized spark plugs on their engines.
have you test normal spark plug vs platinum spark plug vs iridium one? thanks 👍
would be interesting to see it on 2bar of boost. this maybe get you some results :D
Here is a nutty idea. Resonance chamber.
COP is for turbo since the compression is much denser and needs more power to ignite the fuel air mix right?
I heard more spark is only needed if your pushing 20 psi by the spark plug, could you test with blower or some type to see of there different
Should try Pulstar plugs they do create a bigger spark and create a faster burn
To add in 3 more ignition tests if possible.
“hotter” coils, aka going from 20kv to 50kv or if possible multiple discharge
Increase in coil dwell times
2 prong vs 3 prong spark plugs
Awesome work as always fella.
Do you have the capacity to test the difference between wasted spark and sequential?
Hi. the cop setup was run sequential. other coils wasted.
A much hotter coil with iridium plugs is about as good as it gets. The only tuning gains you'll see after that is setting the plug directions using copper washers, and if your coils are hot enough, you could side gap the plugs. These would result in the least amount of spark shrouding.
👍🏻 2 spark plugs on needs )))
Have you done a dyno run with different bogi cords? Thinner vs thicker wire
¿You has test regular coils vs high voltage coils?
The big gap with the high mJ coils test should theoretically want less ignition timing and see small torque increases when the ignition advance is backed down to it's new best with the big gap, high mJ coils. (A large gap starts with a larger initial flame kernel that then has less physical distance to travel to the furthest reach of the combustion chamber and therefore requires less ignition advance.)
now lets go for a rip and look at temps.. and [ping ignition]
spark is spark, who woulda knew
I dyno'd a Yamaha 1100 years ago. The last thing we did was put in "J" gap plugs and gained an instant 2hp. I've also installed a high power CDI on an engine that was running sweet, no obvious misfires, and gained power. The problem with nuclear ignitions is that they will fire weak mixtures and actually cause engine damage where a lower power ignition might misfire. Your engine isn't really testing the ignition. A leaned on turbo engine would be another matter I think. Having said that, I'm currently running LS2 coils on a high revving(18K) turbo engine and they're sweet
I have lq9 coils on my 2J
Would of been interesting to see comparative egt data but who got time for that
I would love it if you could test a multi spark unit vs other performance ignition boxes vs stock
Same results. Multi spark does nothing in reality.
Спасибо
Well at least it looks a lot cleaner with the COP
I would like to see distributor vs waisted spark.
Thanks so much man
Really wanted to know if going coil packs with 60-2 dictator actually works
U must be from SA
@@madhut3042 that is correct
Nice test, indeed upgrade when needed.
Many years ago I tested my old chiptuned 206gti with side gapped plugs. According to the dyno function on the DET3 piggyback this gave me 4 / 5 horsepower.
Side grappig makes sense, becouse of the uninterrupted flamefront.
Something to test on a real dyno?
How was det3, planning to get one, how easy it is to tune and what are its capabilities
@@vid4525 It's okay for older cars, say pre '95. I couldn't alter the ignition becouse on the 206gti becouse you couldn't alter the camshaft sensor and the Crankshaft sensor at the same time.
I installed it on my old sc28 fireblade and couldn't read more than 10k rpm and the ignitionsignal output, was not an altered copy of the input. It didnt work on higher revs past 3k.
Ran an wideband lambda sensor as a input signal for the DET3 for logging and adjusting the carbs. And that worked very nice.
yes, i get same conclusion on my bike, so yeah not much different, im on high expectation when i changed racing sparkplug, and don't feel any different for daily used in jakarta indonesia
Hai provato le sparks Brisk? Io ho sentito la differenza
Great channel man im impressed for the amount of work you got here, you just forgot to side gap the spark plugs, the engine always like it.
on the big gap runs, was basically side gap. the way strap was bent out of the way
@@Garage4age yeah kind of but no the same, side gap is really noticeable if you are on the right AF Ratio, same with spark power
First off for those who don’t know the spark plug heat range is to do with the plugs ability to self clean and not cause preignition. A hot plug will clean itself better than a cold plug but might get so hot as to ignite the fuel without spark. A cold plug may foul up and either not allow the spark to ignite the fuel or more likely the deposits on the plug will glow red hot and ignite the fuel without spark. You fit colder plugs to boosted engines as they’re more likely to pre ignite with a hot plug.
Second.
Having good spark really can boost power and efficiency. It is most notable when going from very poor spark to a good spark. Not so noticeable when going from good to better.
How to tell a hot plug from a cold plug.
Look down inside the the plug at the length of the ceramic insulator around the electrode, the deeper into the plug it goes the hotter the plug and the shorter it is the colder the plug. If you compare a hot and cold plug the numbers will make more sense.
I thought it was more about the ability to transfer heat to keep cyclinder combustion temps correct.
@@simond7582 that’s done with correct fuel mix as well as water meth injection and charge cooling.
Plug heat range is solely to do with preventing knock
I would like to see hydrogen kid installed and dynoed
7 heat range is best ?
For race application, I prefer wasted spark so I can mount the coil away of the engine harsh environment ( heat and vibrations). Saw too many coils on plug fails at the track ! For street use, you don't have to bother with aging plug wires when using coils on plug.
You can remote mount individual coils as well.
Wasted spark and coil on plug are referring to totally separate things. You can have wasted spark with coil-on-plug, and you don't have to have wasted spark with a coil pack and leads. Wasted spark just means that the spark fires near TDC on every stroke, not just the compression stroke.
@@noxious89123 I think most people know that "wasted spark" is meant to be one coil for two cylinders, every end of the secondary coil connected to one plug.
how are you supposed to make more power with the same tune
I wonder what the difference would be in terms of Longevity.
Which cop have 65mj?! Part number?
Honest question: on a turbocharged car, does any failure to ignite / burn completely run through the exhaust stroke, through the turbocharger, and back into the engine as a "rich" mixture? can that then be "re-burned" before being exhausted?
straight out the exhaust. misfire will register as a lean spike on o2 sensor, since oxygen isn't burnt
I also once ran Mitsubishi 4g63 coil packs on my Honda, using those Bosch leads from supercheap auto- did you find that you need to use the resistance type leads after a while? Mine kept misfiring until I changed them to the same type used on evos... Interesting is the COP vs wasted spark comparison. I have had many a heated debate with know it alls who claim sequential is better, when for most setups its not, its just more complex, as is running an extra cam sensor when one can do the job- all it ends up doing is introducing more potential failure points. As for injectors, sequential injection is pointless in a performance setup, unless you have direct injection where fuelling needs to be times with the mechanical processes.
This video proves you don't need the latest and greatest ECUs to have good results, batch fired setups also free up more spare outputs in the cases of some ECUs also.
Main things to consider are:
Can your coils develop peak charge at peak RPM and or boost in wasted spark mode?
If no can you swap out your coils for some that can or can you get a coil on plug kit and run that as wasted spark- in most cases, you can.
Coil on plug setups clean up an engine a lot and get rid of the leads, but you will find only those with huge boos levels or cylinder pressures actually need to maximum coil charging time...
no drama's long as keep them away from sensitive stuff like the cas & wiring etc. and use resistor plugs
Doing God's work 😅
does your ignition system adjust ignition timings by detonation sensors?
Hi. It doesnt have any knock sensors connected to ecu. But i do use one to listen for knock through headphones, when tuning engines
Hi!
Spark generation in an ignition system is dependent of not only ignition coil, but what drives it and power supply voltage (supposedly, nominal 12V). So, please, inform which ignition drive you've employed at each test.
I've found it curious no (detectable) misfire when using a 2.5mm gap with a ignition set as I imagine it was.
Also, no (detectable) difference between 0.2 and 2.5mm gaps is pretty intriguing, since gap affects burning process time, what consequently imposes timing advance changes.
the cop coils were setup as per manufacturer recommended dwell times. the wasted spark are old mitsubishi coils so dont have data on them, but the dwell times should be pretty close what the needed to be. 12v yes. engine is setup just past minimum best timing and makes the same power either side of it. in an effort to keep tests more consistent. So if the gap did effect the timing. wouldn't be seen here
The reason y most people would run cop is because they can't find the oem distributor or most don't like to see the coil wires. I think the cop is much neater
On my old Opel Kadett city
1.9s. I replased the standart coil
With a 50.000v oil cooled
And build a electronic igigknition system
From 70hp to 82hp dyno..
2" exausht + K&N + SUNOCO 5-40 SYN TURBO GOLD
LATER with turbo IT got 243HP 1.9n with 2.4head
The 1.9n we used 4 piston out of a Commodore..
To lower compresion Commodore pistons WAS way
Better qualety..
1.9s had 90hp, right? So the original coil was maybe in bad condition?