I feel the same way about this film. As a kid I was always intrigued by the film, but once people said that it was a bad film, I acted like a sheep and followed along. Though when I watched it again when I was older, I fell in love with the film. The cinematography was really good, and sure there were some misses, but not enough to ruin the entire movie. So In my opinion, it is a very ambitious and fantastic film, and I will forever remember to give everything a chance.
I am glad Hulk 2003 is getting the love it deserves. It is such an interesting and amazing film and the definitive Hulk story that dives into the character.
Ang Lee's arthouse sensibilities truly benefited what could have easily been a dumb loud summer blockbuster of the time, the studio just wanted a flick that could sell Hulk toys and merch to kids, but Lee went far and beyond to make cinema with the Marvel character.
I'm still trying to understand how Ang Lee achieved the tone he did. I think part of the credit is due to Danny Elfman's score which favored depth and tragic gravity over bombastic action fare. When the first score by Michael Dyanna was rejected, Ang Lee insisted on keeping the Eastern feel of some of the cues. Many people thought it was weird in a movie set in the U.S., but to me it made Hulk's experience in the desert feel almost like a biblical desert experience.
I remember walking out of the theater and thinking to myself what a good movie it was. It had depth and creativity. But this didn’t last long because as soon as we got back into the car, all my friends said “that movie sucked! We paid money for that?”… The editing of transitions made me realize that you can do what you want in film. There isn’t a format that you always have to follow. Film is an expression and creative collaboration of many minds. I enjoyed the movie in its entirety.
To me, the Ang Lee's Hulk is the best. Just imagine if marvel and Ang lee could work together again in the next Hulk Movie without any agenda, just pure passion nad no detuned stats of HULK.
Another thing I love about this film is that is doesn't ignore the comic bruce banners' traumatic past. The whole reason he becomes childish and angry as the Hulk is because of the dissociative identity disorder he developed due too his father's abuse. But in the mcu it seems he's just dumb for no reason cause its "funny"
Even in how the characters are visually designed and portrayed we get cues as to the approach the filmmakers are taking with the character. For instance, the MCU version of Hulk always felt more ape-like; as if Bruce was regressing into a previous evolutionary state when he transformed. In Ang Lee's version, however, they very specifically designed the Hulk to look and behave like a toddler; as if Bruce was regressing into the developmental stage where his trauma took place and was repressed. There are similarities in the two approaches but I find Ang Lee's take far more compelling.
I was especially moved your opening, where you discuss 'entertaining the notion' of disliking the movie. That was my story as well. I liked the movie a lot, but I kinda fell into 'the yeah its so bad' perspective because it was the dawn of the internet bubble where majority opinions become sacrosanct. Years later I picked up the DVD and being a person who was now more confident about keeping my own council as an individual with his own point of view, I found that I still thought very highly of the film and consider it a treasure of 2000s superhero fare.
The thing I liked about Ang Lee's Hulk is that, while General "Thunderbolt" Ross was an antagonist, he wasn't the creep that he was portrayed in the MCU. The MCU version was more like Glenn Talbot. He lied to Banner about what he was working on and chased after Banner just to have his super-super soldier. But he couldn't capture Banner by conventional means, Ross turned Blonsky into the Abomination with his knockoff super soldier serum. The Ang Lee version was a guy just trying to protect his country from he perceived to be a 15-ft tall green menace, which is understandable since he lacks the audience's omniscience and that Bruce Banner wasn't the threat that he believed him to be.
I don't cry while watching movies but that scene after the final fight where Bruce is floating in the water and remembers his father kissing him goodnight, telling him "sweet dreams" got me teary eyed. Hulk (2003) is a unique film of it's time and unfortunately we won't get anything like it again.
There really is a lot to appreciate in HULK. It feels like a movie that would it come out today, people would probably regard it more favorably, seeing it as a breath of fresh air in what has become quite a homogeneous landscape in comic book film. I think Ang Lee, the writers, and everyone involved really seemed to understand the character, and that's why I like this one. It's fun to watch HULK smash things, and there is plenty of that in the movie, but there's much more to him, and the filmmakers wanted to dig into all of that. The mythological underpinnings of the story that you highlighted here give it a lot of weight. Great video!
I was lukewarm on it when it was out but I never hated it. What made me truly begin to appreciate the 2003 and the 2008 (which I already loved) was how Marvel treated him in Infinity War and End Game. It feels so far away from his essence you revisit these and you really are like, "wow they did him right". Ang Lee's when broken down is almost a Hulk masterpiece, with high entertainment value for how it was done.
The trauma that Bruce has in this movie struck hard for me. My dad abused my mother when I was a child, he never hurt me and I should be grateful for that but it hurt much more when he hurt my mom than any physical pain he could've inflicted upon me.
Bruce was traumatized as a young boy as a result of his father's unchecked aggression and behavior in a dire attempt to attain a breakthrough in scientific pursuits. The door itself is metaphorical. It is the emotional/psychological boundary between who we present ourselves to be(Superego) and who we really are (Id), with Bruce in between both points (Ego). He's a deeply troubled man because he never learned how to balance all three parts of his consciousness. He's emotionally distant, even to those he cares about, and hyper-focuses on his work instead of himself. The door is always there in his dreams, taunting him, perhaps a release from all the trauma he endured as a young boy. His first transformation is the first time he sees what's beyond- The Hulk. Years of anger and frustration, molded by neglect. His superego has done most of the molding of the lesser ego, and thus, he is afraid of what that neglectful Id wants to do. Violence by its inherent nature is destructive. When it's aimed at an individual or a structural representation of society, or sometimes, society itself, it is far more so. But destruction or maybe, the Id, much like the wake of a floe of magma, brings growth and new life, tempered by the elements, or supplanting that with the Superego and the Ego controlling it. Bruce only ever transforms when he loses control of his temper, when the Id wins over the Superego and his Ego allows it to manifest. Hulk doesn't really find closure in his mutation, but rather learns to accept that it is part of him. Acceptance is a healthy attitude towards negative emotions. Accepting you're an alcoholic, or accepting you've been neglectful to loved ones, or responsibilities in work and life. Growth comes out of those, and I think with Bruce, his acceptance that he is The Hulk is part of his growth. Ruffalo's Hulk also shows that the growth has taken place, when commenting that he's 'always angry'; a healthy acceptance to who he is. I always saw Hulk as an allegory to acceptance of who you are as a person. If you have anger issues, accepting you have an anger issue and learning to handle and manage the temper is a growth process. Another RUclipsr called it part of 'Toxic Masculinity' but, I argue that the term itself is a poor term to describe what the problem really is- underdevelopment and emotional neglect. We've all got a Hulk behind a closed door, no matter who you are. But you gotta let it in to understand what you are, and how to take hold of who you are as a person. Our behavior is entirely capable of negative effects. But I argue that it's more part in parcel with poor behavioral understanding of the self. Everyone wants to be coddled, but nobody wants to self-analyze. It's too painful, too 'dangerous'. Nobody wants to realize they're not the hero that people reinforce into their behavior with participation trophies and people telling us 'we're the best, no matter what'- It's well-intended, but we miss the point as to why we impart those platitudes to each other. We're just people- and people are boring, nuanced, and clearly flawed. But flaws are part of who we are. For some, it's frightening to realize how futile we are in that respect- that we will grow old, regret, and eventually die. We're all capable of dangerous behavior, of violence, of hate. It's easy to give into the impulse. To understand why, to analyze who you are while exhibiting those behaviors is part of the growth process. Acceptance of anger, of alcoholism, of porn or sex- that acceptance is part of growth, to conquer that block, to open the door, much like Bruce did, and realize that the monster isn't hiding behind the door- it's in us. We are the monsters, much like Nietzsche declared when he warned us about fighting monsters. We're monsters. But we can be magnanimous in our exercising of force, of influence, of behavior- and that will make us less like monsters, and more like people. Nuanced, boring- at peace.
If you watch the behind the scenes docs about the film, they mention how they designed HULK to look like a toddler. I find this very interesting compared to the more ape-like MCU Hulk. It suggests that his trauma stunted his development and allowed him to have the, albeit very destructive, temper tantrums of a young child. I listened to a talk recently about "identity fixation" and how when childhood development is disrupted for whatever reason, it can lead to disastrous results as an adult. In this film, at least in part, Bruce recognizes the broken toddler hammering on the walls of his psyche and makes amends with the abuser, allowing the mature form of his strength to be utilized.
You call out participation trophies, but actually trophies of any kind can be slotted into your argument, even when that trophy is given to somebody is victorious in competition. The truth is that precipitous success can be disastrous on an individual and thrust them into a sort of new toddlerhood, like taking an eraser to their lives and relationships, even as they are told they've earned this success.
This was an excellent analysis and adds so many layers to a movie I was already in love with. To say this was well made would be an understatement. Keep up the good work!
Wow... I always talk too much about things like these, now I know how does it feel to realize you were missing such a huge part of the story. Excellent video, thank you.
In all honesty, Hulk wasn't a failure at the time. Most critics were giving it iffy reviews but it wasn't critically panned or anything like that. It made a decent sum but still not nearly as much as say spider man. I was always very intrigued by the film so much so that I got it on dvd and couldn't stop watching it. Overall today I feel that the films a tad too long and a tad too serious for it's own good but otherwise everything else is fine. The CGI especially is some of the best I've ever seen. The hulk has never seemed more photorealistic than he has in this film which is hardly a surprise when you consider ILM handled the vfx
Nah I knew off the rip, instant classic. Lifelike CGI, interesting, accurate … fun and most iconic cinematic Hulk action. Him vs the military in the dessert is pure fire
I think this is one of the most interesting,mature superhero films ever made & for the time used quite a few very unique ways of capturing a comic book feel,due to the comic book like panel shots in a big way(the 1st Sin City is the most accurate adaptation of comics put on film though) ,but yeah,the older I got the more I appreciated this film. A story exploring issues such as fatherhood & the psychological impact of such relationships,a study of memory/memories & even more so a great study of mental health,bi polar type personality disorders especially. It’s not just a good film,I think it’s a great film.I must have watched this film over 40times throughout the years.As great as it is though,there are a few films based on comics that beat it.Batman Begins is my all time favourite superhero film.As good as TDK & TDK Rises were,‘Begins was just the greatest Batman film by a long shot imo & I’ve watched it just as many times as Hulk,around 50-70times.I love it so much from the 1st watch,on up to this very day. Really good analysis of Hulk though m8.Respect✌️ ✊🏼✊🏽✊🏾✊🏿🇸🇱🏴🇧🇿✊🏼🤜🏾🤛🏼✊🏾
This is a wonderfully done video. I love how you focused on and explained the relationship between Bruce/Hulk and their father, and the deeper meaning and origins of these characters, And of course, more love and praise for this film is much appreciated.
Absolutely love this!!! You are giving people a unique storyteller's perspective on the depth and thought that goes into a film.....or should at least. Great quality, great guy and fantastic content. I see this series skyrocketing very soon. MARK MY WORDS. I am behind this and behind you! Keep going, keep grinding!!!!
I really enjoyed your edition and storytelling. When I was a little girl I watched this movie and I cried several times due the touching feeling of the characters, specially Hulk. I felt that parts of him was like me, even though he is a man and with another purpose. I also cheered while the villains had an end. After years I forgot this movie and just recently after the atrocious “She Hulk” with the pathetic Mark Ruffalo version, I thought“Hey, I remind of this old Hulk which I really liked”. It was a nice nostalgia, the movie is great and the harsh critique is totally unfair. This Hulk deserves more attention.
I largely feel the same way about the film. I was always fascinated by it as a little kid. The music to this day is just amazing, nothing else feels exactly like it, and I wish we got more of this kind of Hulk story. I as many others point out kind of just followed along with everyone else and decided that I was blinded by nostalgia before, since I still remembered it as a good film. Then I rewatched it as a 16 year old and I loved it still. I'm 21 now but I just can't believe it was still purely blind nostalgia that made me love it 5 years ago. The film isn't perfect by any means and it might be a bit too long sometimes. The comic book style cuts for me are a nice touch but I get that they can be jarring for others. The CGI can get pretty bad even when just depicting the Hulk, it definitely looks bad when Bruce's dad turns into this massive gamma bubble. However I find it is absolutely stunning for a 2003 movie and it holds up really well. This movie is going to be 20 years old in about a year, to me the Hulk is still very believable in it, although a lot of it has to do with the mocap I'm sure. Nonetheless I don't get the hate for the CGI. If it was made today, I would maybe agree but it wasn't. I will forever praise this movie, it's underrated imo. Maybe not peak cinema but it's not a bad movie by any means.
Like James Cameron's Avatar or Titanic, Ang Lee's Hulk is scorned because of its sincerity and its refusal to be pigeonholed into sanctioned genre standards, it is its own movie and it makes no apologies for itself. I absolutely adore Ang Lee's Hulk, thanks for the review!
I saw this movie when I was 7 in theaters and I’ll admit that it kinda freaked me out and bored me a little. I’d seen X-Men, Daredevil and Spider-Man in theaters and loved them all, but for some reason Hulk never sat right with me, but I never forgot it. The music has lived in the back of my head for all my life and I find myself thinking about moments from the movie from time to time. Truthfully I haven’t sat down and watched it from beginning to the end since the theater and the last time I watched it at all was in 2008 before the Incredible Hulk released and maybe it’s time to change that. It’s a movie I want to like, but I don’t know if I do.
To me this movie was always good, the most comic book accurate Hulk movie in many aspects, and ambitious well made movie that takes what i think is a better origin story for the Hulk with a lot more nuance, with funnilly enough is in fact part of the comics too. - Dialog feels real and dynamic in a way not many stories do, giving layers to every character by just how they talk or what they talk. - Cinamatography feels like seeing a comic book in real time. - It gives so many subtle but powerful messages on power, friendship, love and so much more. I love Ang lee's Hulk, I love The Incredible Hulk movie, both a re beatiful movies that choose to focus on different aspects of what makes Hulk what he is, both succeed it and i am glad we have 2 amazing Hulk movies that explore different aspects of the character.
I love 90% of all things about this movie and I didn't even watch it as a kid, I even ordered the novelization for it. Thank you for your *incredible* video!
Great movie start to finish. Really well done. Also you could tell a lot of effort was put into it. Felt like an actual story instead of non stop action with dumb plot. Also the actors too seemed to take it pretty seriously. Loved it. Hulk action scenes in desert were really awesome too.
Connected with this breakdown on a spiritual level homie. I too have always wanted to love this movie and you’ve put it into perspective for real. Big fan
As the years went by, I slowly began to love this movie. If you compare it to the MCU, it makes you question comic book movies like, 1) what happen to making comic book films serious and standalone? 2) where's the director's artistic vision, like the Hulk's small comic boxes and split screen? 3) Just letting the audience figure out for themselves, like what's the meaning behind the door that Bruce is afraid to go into and the deeper meaning behind it. I miss stories or movies like that.
Before I knew the Tao, I saw Ang Lee's Hulk as a symbolic masterpiece. When I was learning the Tao, I saw Ang Lee's Hulk as a flawed, terrible tragedy. When I came to know the Tao, I once again saw Ang Lee's Hulk as a symbolic masterpiece.
This is just the deep dive essay I was looking for! Far better written than the other, far more popular videos praising the movie. Subbed. You remind me of my best teacher in high school :)
If anyone ever asks me what my favourite superhero movie is, I've always said "Ang Lees Hulk" without hesitation, even when everyone around me was bashing it. I've been tolerant and appreciative of other Hulk incarnations that is until Thor: Ragnarok which I truly hated as it's perhaps the main transition point where the Hulk is just reduced to a big buffoon for MCU comic relief. For me though, none of them come close to the brilliance of Ang Lees interpretation.
There seems to be a revival of interest in the movie. Could it be that the cookie-cutter superhero films of the past 15 years have made us realize that we can forgive a little campiness as long as there is heart behind it?
Just watched this film for the first time! I absolutely loved it. As someome who has a lot of emotional trauma I found it to be relateble. I feel like this film might have kinda inspired some elements of The Immortal Hulk.
8:00 you almost made me cry, this film is very important to me it always break my heart how much this film was hated same with brokeback mountain, much love from argentina What is the song used to ?
I always liked this Film compared to the MCU, and knew there was depth to it as well as heart but I couldn't put my finger on it. I just knew there was more thought into it than some shitty popcorn flick. This is a film and the following Hulks are movies.
They've really gone for the lowest common denominator with Thor's character... really with most of their characters. People are getting tired of it, thankfully.
Modern society could really benefit from the way Greek mythology beautifies and justifies trauma. Modern people are obsessed with who can be the greatest victim now. 😂😂😂
I watched this movie in the theater when it came out. I was about 18 or 19. At the time it seemed kind of stupid due to the CGI. Exactly how the guy in the video says. But over time and years i rewatched and I really began to like it and specifically for the dramatic emotional scenes. The scenes I disliked are mostly the scenes with Jennifer Connelly who I think wasn’t the best choice.
Much like the character, this movie is seriously misunderstood. This is the closest we'll ever get to a good hulk solo film. It has some flaws but I really enjoyed it for what it is. Its not an action packed movie but rather a drama that has some action in it.
It's my favourite Marvel film. By a *considerable* margin. Most of the MCU films are slop. Junk food cinema. Ang Lee's Hulk is not. The bridging between "the macrocosm and the microcosm" is something i rarely, if ever, hear anyone else mention. I've always thought this to be the key to the correct interpretation of the film. It's a deeply Freudian idea (the Unconscious as vast, terrifying, and mysterious as the Universe) - and Nietzschean, embodied (in the worst possible way one can internalize old "Neech") by Nolte's David Banner - the Will to Power run amok, uncontrolled and uncontrollable in its selfish exploitation of *all* life by *one* life. Greek Tragedy, Freudian Psychodrama, Mythological Archetypes, and a Nietzschean villain. What more could one want? Btw you missed one element - Ice. I'd also say Air (when Hulk & Absorbing Man go airborne) but it's a bit of a reach. That's still in the Fire stage (Lighting representing Fire here). Fire, Air, Earth, Water, and Ice. In that order, as I recall. But Fire, Water, and Earth is perhaps more elegant and thematically consistent.
You may have a point. "Fire, earth, and water" did feel a bit incomplete when I wrote it. When they "absorb all the ambient energy" and freeze the lake, its such a strong image of what unresolved psychological and spiritual conflict does to one's environment. It drains not only you but people around you.
The early MCU films were good and entertaining even The Incredible Hulk film. It’s just that the quality dipped for the future ones more and more because of mishandling.
There are little things about stand alone movies that were actually bad. Seeing how mediocre and annoyingly weak they made him in the avengers makes the previous movies look so much better. He was a bad ass in those movies. Just wish they made a movie that truly showcases his true potential and what he can really do
Someone, I think it it may have been the Russo Brothers, said that the Hulk doesn't work well as a standalone character; but rather as a side character. I think that is just a poor excuse for poor storytelling.
@@xcurvatus well that's just absurd. If they think what he's done in the avengers movies as a supporting character is well executed then I can't see what their vision is for him. Surely he can offer more than just comedic relief at random times
If we wanna get anal about this Hulk, bear in mind this is the ONLY iteration that shows how physically powerful the Hulk is. In this he throws a tank for miles...in Endgame he struggles to throw a bench over a small lake.
It was cheesy at times but there were moments where it was quite innovative and fit/set the tone. Also, its cool to me how there was very little of it in the climax of the movie. It was as if the whole movie was a comic book and then the style shifted to classic cinema at the end to give it dramatic heft.
It also took ques from the old TV show of the 1970s. There is a lot I like from this film and also a lot that I like from the 2008 hulk movie but this one is better in my opinion. MCU Hulk today just sucks and is basically just Mark Ruffalo with a hulk skin. I get that it's supposed to be "Professor Hulk" but let's be real. It's just Mark Ruffalo with a hulk skin on. Super cringey and I hate the new mcu and especially the over abundance of shows and movies. I want the older super hero movies with more serious tones and less campiness to em.
I don't mind a little campiness but the problem with Marvel is that their films are far too aware of their own campiness to the point of pulling you out of the story. Sam Raimi's Spiderman trilogy was a little campy (on purpose) but it was committed to and confident in its tone. The later Marvel films are constantly making fun of the themselves and it gets exhausting because you hardly ever get a real emotional moment that isn't immediately spoiled by some dumb joke that is meant to lighten the mood.
I feel the same way about this film. As a kid I was always intrigued by the film, but once people said that it was a bad film, I acted like a sheep and followed along. Though when I watched it again when I was older, I fell in love with the film. The cinematography was really good, and sure there were some misses, but not enough to ruin the entire movie. So In my opinion, it is a very ambitious and fantastic film, and I will forever remember to give everything a chance.
same
I am glad Hulk 2003 is getting the love it deserves. It is such an interesting and amazing film and the definitive Hulk story that dives into the character.
Ang Lee's arthouse sensibilities truly benefited what could have easily been a dumb loud summer blockbuster of the time, the studio just wanted a flick that could sell Hulk toys and merch to kids, but Lee went far and beyond to make cinema with the Marvel character.
I'm still trying to understand how Ang Lee achieved the tone he did. I think part of the credit is due to Danny Elfman's score which favored depth and tragic gravity over bombastic action fare. When the first score by Michael Dyanna was rejected, Ang Lee insisted on keeping the Eastern feel of some of the cues. Many people thought it was weird in a movie set in the U.S., but to me it made Hulk's experience in the desert feel almost like a biblical desert experience.
I remember walking out of the theater and thinking to myself what a good movie it was. It had depth and creativity. But this didn’t last long because as soon as we got back into the car, all my friends said “that movie sucked! We paid money for that?”… The editing of transitions made me realize that you can do what you want in film. There isn’t a format that you always have to follow. Film is an expression and creative collaboration of many minds. I enjoyed the movie in its entirety.
To me, the Ang Lee's Hulk is the best. Just imagine if marvel and Ang lee could work together again in the next Hulk Movie without any agenda, just pure passion nad no detuned stats of HULK.
Easily the best hulk movie in my opinion. I loved this film immediately and it's only gotten better over time.
Layers... As I get older I see more and more how many layers the film has.
Another thing I love about this film is that is doesn't ignore the comic bruce banners' traumatic past. The whole reason he becomes childish and angry as the Hulk is because of the dissociative identity disorder he developed due too his father's abuse. But in the mcu it seems he's just dumb for no reason cause its "funny"
Even in how the characters are visually designed and portrayed we get cues as to the approach the filmmakers are taking with the character. For instance, the MCU version of Hulk always felt more ape-like; as if Bruce was regressing into a previous evolutionary state when he transformed. In Ang Lee's version, however, they very specifically designed the Hulk to look and behave like a toddler; as if Bruce was regressing into the developmental stage where his trauma took place and was repressed. There are similarities in the two approaches but I find Ang Lee's take far more compelling.
I was especially moved your opening, where you discuss 'entertaining the notion' of disliking the movie. That was my story as well. I liked the movie a lot, but I kinda fell into 'the yeah its so bad' perspective because it was the dawn of the internet bubble where majority opinions become sacrosanct. Years later I picked up the DVD and being a person who was now more confident about keeping my own council as an individual with his own point of view, I found that I still thought very highly of the film and consider it a treasure of 2000s superhero fare.
Its nice to see people love this movie as much as i did man
The thing I liked about Ang Lee's Hulk is that, while General "Thunderbolt" Ross was an antagonist, he wasn't the creep that he was portrayed in the MCU. The MCU version was more like Glenn Talbot. He lied to Banner about what he was working on and chased after Banner just to have his super-super soldier. But he couldn't capture Banner by conventional means, Ross turned Blonsky into the Abomination with his knockoff super soldier serum.
The Ang Lee version was a guy just trying to protect his country from he perceived to be a 15-ft tall green menace, which is understandable since he lacks the audience's omniscience and that Bruce Banner wasn't the threat that he believed him to be.
I don't cry while watching movies but that scene after the final fight where Bruce is floating in the water and remembers his father kissing him goodnight, telling him "sweet dreams" got me teary eyed. Hulk (2003) is a unique film of it's time and unfortunately we won't get anything like it again.
I do not know what strength is in my blood, but I will not let good storytelling fall, nor our narratives fail.
There really is a lot to appreciate in HULK. It feels like a movie that would it come out today, people would probably regard it more favorably, seeing it as a breath of fresh air in what has become quite a homogeneous landscape in comic book film. I think Ang Lee, the writers, and everyone involved really seemed to understand the character, and that's why I like this one. It's fun to watch HULK smash things, and there is plenty of that in the movie, but there's much more to him, and the filmmakers wanted to dig into all of that. The mythological underpinnings of the story that you highlighted here give it a lot of weight. Great video!
Totally agree. People are realizing this, slowly but surely. Glad you enjoyed the video! Funny that our videos came out around the same time.
Beautiful video!
I was lukewarm on it when it was out but I never hated it. What made me truly begin to appreciate the 2003 and the 2008 (which I already loved) was how Marvel treated him in Infinity War and End Game. It feels so far away from his essence you revisit these and you really are like, "wow they did him right". Ang Lee's when broken down is almost a Hulk masterpiece, with high entertainment value for how it was done.
The trauma that Bruce has in this movie struck hard for me. My dad abused my mother when I was a child, he never hurt me and I should be grateful for that but it hurt much more when he hurt my mom than any physical pain he could've inflicted upon me.
I'm sorry you went through that and hope that you've been able to move forward into a more heroic path than the example given to you.
@@xcurvatus Thanks.
Bruce was traumatized as a young boy as a result of his father's unchecked aggression and behavior in a dire attempt to attain a breakthrough in scientific pursuits. The door itself is metaphorical. It is the emotional/psychological boundary between who we present ourselves to be(Superego) and who we really are (Id), with Bruce in between both points (Ego).
He's a deeply troubled man because he never learned how to balance all three parts of his consciousness. He's emotionally distant, even to those he cares about, and hyper-focuses on his work instead of himself. The door is always there in his dreams, taunting him, perhaps a release from all the trauma he endured as a young boy.
His first transformation is the first time he sees what's beyond- The Hulk. Years of anger and frustration, molded by neglect. His superego has done most of the molding of the lesser ego, and thus, he is afraid of what that neglectful Id wants to do.
Violence by its inherent nature is destructive. When it's aimed at an individual or a structural representation of society, or sometimes, society itself, it is far more so. But destruction or maybe, the Id, much like the wake of a floe of magma, brings growth and new life, tempered by the elements, or supplanting that with the Superego and the Ego controlling it.
Bruce only ever transforms when he loses control of his temper, when the Id wins over the Superego and his Ego allows it to manifest. Hulk doesn't really find closure in his mutation, but rather learns to accept that it is part of him. Acceptance is a healthy attitude towards negative emotions. Accepting you're an alcoholic, or accepting you've been neglectful to loved ones, or responsibilities in work and life. Growth comes out of those, and I think with Bruce, his acceptance that he is The Hulk is part of his growth. Ruffalo's Hulk also shows that the growth has taken place, when commenting that he's 'always angry'; a healthy acceptance to who he is.
I always saw Hulk as an allegory to acceptance of who you are as a person. If you have anger issues, accepting you have an anger issue and learning to handle and manage the temper is a growth process.
Another RUclipsr called it part of 'Toxic Masculinity' but, I argue that the term itself is a poor term to describe what the problem really is- underdevelopment and emotional neglect. We've all got a Hulk behind a closed door, no matter who you are. But you gotta let it in to understand what you are, and how to take hold of who you are as a person.
Our behavior is entirely capable of negative effects. But I argue that it's more part in parcel with poor behavioral understanding of the self. Everyone wants to be coddled, but nobody wants to self-analyze. It's too painful, too 'dangerous'.
Nobody wants to realize they're not the hero that people reinforce into their behavior with participation trophies and people telling us 'we're the best, no matter what'- It's well-intended, but we miss the point as to why we impart those platitudes to each other. We're just people- and people are boring, nuanced, and clearly flawed. But flaws are part of who we are. For some, it's frightening to realize how futile we are in that respect- that we will grow old, regret, and eventually die.
We're all capable of dangerous behavior, of violence, of hate. It's easy to give into the impulse. To understand why, to analyze who you are while exhibiting those behaviors is part of the growth process. Acceptance of anger, of alcoholism, of porn or sex- that acceptance is part of growth, to conquer that block, to open the door, much like Bruce did, and realize that the monster isn't hiding behind the door- it's in us. We are the monsters, much like Nietzsche declared when he warned us about fighting monsters.
We're monsters. But we can be magnanimous in our exercising of force, of influence, of behavior- and that will make us less like monsters, and more like people. Nuanced, boring- at peace.
If you watch the behind the scenes docs about the film, they mention how they designed HULK to look like a toddler. I find this very interesting compared to the more ape-like MCU Hulk. It suggests that his trauma stunted his development and allowed him to have the, albeit very destructive, temper tantrums of a young child. I listened to a talk recently about "identity fixation" and how when childhood development is disrupted for whatever reason, it can lead to disastrous results as an adult. In this film, at least in part, Bruce recognizes the broken toddler hammering on the walls of his psyche and makes amends with the abuser, allowing the mature form of his strength to be utilized.
You call out participation trophies, but actually trophies of any kind can be slotted into your argument, even when that trophy is given to somebody is victorious in competition.
The truth is that precipitous success can be disastrous on an individual and thrust them into a sort of new toddlerhood, like taking an eraser to their lives and relationships, even as they are told they've earned this success.
Best Hulk movie to date.
This was an excellent analysis and adds so many layers to a movie I was already in love with. To say this was well made would be an understatement. Keep up the good work!
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it.
Wow... I always talk too much about things like these, now I know how does it feel to realize you were missing such a huge part of the story.
Excellent video, thank you.
I resonated heavy with this film and made me analyze the relationship I have with my father in my personal life
I fell in love with eric bana with this movie.
His eyes are so full of emotions
In all honesty, Hulk wasn't a failure at the time. Most critics were giving it iffy reviews but it wasn't critically panned or anything like that. It made a decent sum but still not nearly as much as say spider man. I was always very intrigued by the film so much so that I got it on dvd and couldn't stop watching it. Overall today I feel that the films a tad too long and a tad too serious for it's own good but otherwise everything else is fine. The CGI especially is some of the best I've ever seen. The hulk has never seemed more photorealistic than he has in this film which is hardly a surprise when you consider ILM handled the vfx
Nah I knew off the rip, instant classic. Lifelike CGI, interesting, accurate … fun and most iconic cinematic Hulk action. Him vs the military in the dessert is pure fire
Also best adaptation of The Hulk.
I think this is one of the most interesting,mature superhero films ever made & for the time used quite a few very unique ways of capturing a comic book feel,due to the comic book like panel shots in a big way(the 1st Sin City is the most accurate adaptation of comics put on film though) ,but yeah,the older I got the more I appreciated this film.
A story exploring issues such as fatherhood & the psychological impact of such relationships,a study of memory/memories & even more so a great study of mental health,bi polar type personality disorders especially.
It’s not just a good film,I think it’s a great film.I must have watched this film over 40times throughout the years.As great as it is though,there are a few films based on comics that beat it.Batman Begins is my all time favourite superhero film.As good as TDK & TDK Rises were,‘Begins was just the greatest Batman film by a long shot imo & I’ve watched it just as many times as Hulk,around 50-70times.I love it so much from the 1st watch,on up to this very day.
Really good analysis of Hulk though m8.Respect✌️
✊🏼✊🏽✊🏾✊🏿🇸🇱🏴🇧🇿✊🏼🤜🏾🤛🏼✊🏾
This is a wonderfully done video. I love how you focused on and explained the relationship between Bruce/Hulk and their father, and the deeper meaning and origins of these characters, And of course, more love and praise for this film is much appreciated.
Absolutely love this!!! You are giving people a unique storyteller's perspective on the depth and thought that goes into a film.....or should at least. Great quality, great guy and fantastic content. I see this series skyrocketing very soon. MARK MY WORDS. I am behind this and behind you! Keep going, keep grinding!!!!
Hey Jake, thanks for the encouragement!
I really enjoyed your edition and storytelling. When I was a little girl I watched this movie and I cried several times due the touching feeling of the characters, specially Hulk. I felt that parts of him was like me, even though he is a man and with another purpose. I also cheered while the villains had an end. After years I forgot this movie and just recently after the atrocious “She Hulk” with the pathetic Mark Ruffalo version, I thought“Hey, I remind of this old Hulk which I really liked”. It was a nice nostalgia, the movie is great and the harsh critique is totally unfair. This Hulk deserves more attention.
I was wondering if this video was getting more views because of She Hulk!
@@xcurvatus yes! I hope more people come to your channel. At least the atrocious series will do something good lol
That was fantastic. Loved the film and I really enjoyed this video essay. Thank you
i love this video. you did a good job.
Wonderful insights. I look forward to future videos.
I largely feel the same way about the film. I was always fascinated by it as a little kid.
The music to this day is just amazing, nothing else feels exactly like it, and I wish we got more of this kind of Hulk story.
I as many others point out kind of just followed along with everyone else and decided that I was blinded by nostalgia before, since I still remembered it as a good film.
Then I rewatched it as a 16 year old and I loved it still. I'm 21 now but I just can't believe it was still purely blind nostalgia that made me love it 5 years ago.
The film isn't perfect by any means and it might be a bit too long sometimes. The comic book style cuts for me are a nice touch but I get that they can be jarring for others.
The CGI can get pretty bad even when just depicting the Hulk, it definitely looks bad when Bruce's dad turns into this massive gamma bubble. However I find it is absolutely stunning for a 2003 movie and it holds up really well.
This movie is going to be 20 years old in about a year, to me the Hulk is still very believable in it, although a lot of it has to do with the mocap I'm sure. Nonetheless I don't get the hate for the CGI. If it was made today, I would maybe agree but it wasn't.
I will forever praise this movie, it's underrated imo. Maybe not peak cinema but it's not a bad movie by any means.
Like James Cameron's Avatar or Titanic, Ang Lee's Hulk is scorned because of its sincerity and its refusal to be pigeonholed into sanctioned genre standards, it is its own movie and it makes no apologies for itself.
I absolutely adore Ang Lee's Hulk, thanks for the review!
Thanks for the comment! Glad you enjoyed it.
Yeah even though i didnt realize most of what the movie was about when i was about 8 i still loved it and still do
Enjoyed it...An Underrated gem for sure and the best hulk...My Love and Nostalgia
I saw this movie when I was 7 in theaters and I’ll admit that it kinda freaked me out and bored me a little. I’d seen X-Men, Daredevil and Spider-Man in theaters and loved them all, but for some reason Hulk never sat right with me, but I never forgot it. The music has lived in the back of my head for all my life and I find myself thinking about moments from the movie from time to time. Truthfully I haven’t sat down and watched it from beginning to the end since the theater and the last time I watched it at all was in 2008 before the Incredible Hulk released and maybe it’s time to change that. It’s a movie I want to like, but I don’t know if I do.
Give it a shot. If anything, it will be a nice break from the stuff Marvel is currently putting out there.
To me this movie was always good, the most comic book accurate Hulk movie in many aspects, and ambitious well made movie that takes what i think is a better origin story for the Hulk with a lot more nuance, with funnilly enough is in fact part of the comics too.
- Dialog feels real and dynamic in a way not many stories do, giving layers to every character by just how they talk or what they talk.
- Cinamatography feels like seeing a comic book in real time.
- It gives so many subtle but powerful messages on power, friendship, love and so much more.
I love Ang lee's Hulk, I love The Incredible Hulk movie, both a re beatiful movies that choose to focus on different aspects of what makes Hulk what he is, both succeed it and i am glad we have 2 amazing Hulk movies that explore different aspects of the character.
I love 90% of all things about this movie and I didn't even watch it as a kid, I even ordered the novelization for it. Thank you for your *incredible* video!
Thanks for the comment!
Great movie start to finish. Really well done. Also you could tell a lot of effort was put into it. Felt like an actual story instead of non stop action with dumb plot. Also the actors too seemed to take it pretty seriously. Loved it. Hulk action scenes in desert were really awesome too.
Yah, the desert scenes were great. They knew their limitations as far as CGI and so they made sure to ground it in a very natural backdrop.
Connected with this breakdown on a spiritual level homie. I too have always wanted to love this movie and you’ve put it into perspective for real. Big fan
Glad you connected with it! Thanks for the feedback.
I loved this analysis of the movie, it's an eternal classic of a film.
As the years went by, I slowly began to love this movie. If you compare it to the MCU, it makes you question comic book movies like,
1) what happen to making comic book films serious and standalone?
2) where's the director's artistic vision, like the Hulk's small comic boxes and split screen?
3) Just letting the audience figure out for themselves, like what's the meaning behind the door that Bruce is afraid to go into and the deeper meaning behind it.
I miss stories or movies like that.
That was beautiful....
Before I knew the Tao, I saw Ang Lee's Hulk as a symbolic masterpiece.
When I was learning the Tao, I saw Ang Lee's Hulk as a flawed, terrible tragedy.
When I came to know the Tao, I once again saw Ang Lee's Hulk as a symbolic masterpiece.
What do you think prompted that shift?
@@xcurvatus Psychedelic drugs
This is just the deep dive essay I was looking for! Far better written than the other, far more popular videos praising the movie. Subbed.
You remind me of my best teacher in high school :)
Thank you! Glad you found what you were looking for.
Great video man!!!! I love this movie. Easily the most nostalgic movie for me.
I don't think I've seen another film like it.
If anyone ever asks me what my favourite superhero movie is, I've always said "Ang Lees Hulk" without hesitation, even when everyone around me was bashing it.
I've been tolerant and appreciative of other Hulk incarnations that is until Thor: Ragnarok which I truly hated as it's perhaps the main transition point where the Hulk is just reduced to a big buffoon for MCU comic relief.
For me though, none of them come close to the brilliance of Ang Lees interpretation.
This was the film analysis I was lookin for
There seems to be a revival of interest in the movie. Could it be that the cookie-cutter superhero films of the past 15 years have made us realize that we can forgive a little campiness as long as there is heart behind it?
This film really paved the way for James Mangold’s Logan.
Just watched this film for the first time! I absolutely loved it. As someome who has a lot of emotional trauma I found it to be relateble. I feel like this film might have kinda inspired some elements of The Immortal Hulk.
This video itself is a masterpiece, I will keep this in mind for the future stories I write.
Thank you. I'm glad you're telling stories!
ang lee's hulk is and forever shall be one of my top 3 favriout superhero I shall ever be proud of.
Thank you very much. This was just beautiful
I LOVED this film. It’s too bad I don’t see it on any of my streaming platforms.
The descent under the water is Hulks Katabasis. He learns what he needs to do to destroy his enemy and rises again, changed.
I love this film!
Sooooo good, brother!
GREAT!!!
nice
Very cool 😎
you hit the nail on the head!
I like the movie more than the other 2.
Lore of Modern Myth - A Defense of Ang Lee's HULK momentum 100
8:00 you almost made me cry, this film is very important to me it always break my heart how much this film was hated same with brokeback mountain, much love from argentina
What is the song used to ?
I'm glad you were impacted by the video! Several of the songs I used are from the RUclips Audio Library.
I always liked this Film compared to the MCU, and knew there was depth to it as well as heart but I couldn't put my finger on it. I just knew there was more thought into it than some shitty popcorn flick. This is a film and the following Hulks are movies.
They should have let Ang Lee direct Thor because that's a character the MCU can't seem to get right.
They've really gone for the lowest common denominator with Thor's character... really with most of their characters. People are getting tired of it, thankfully.
Modern society could really benefit from the way Greek mythology beautifies and justifies trauma. Modern people are obsessed with who can be the greatest victim now. 😂😂😂
I watched this movie in the theater when it came out. I was about 18 or 19. At the time it seemed kind of stupid due to the CGI. Exactly how the guy in the video says. But over time and years i rewatched and I really began to like it and specifically for the dramatic emotional scenes. The scenes I disliked are mostly the scenes with Jennifer Connelly who I think wasn’t the best choice.
You wouldn't like me when I'm Ang Lee
Much like the character, this movie is seriously misunderstood. This is the closest we'll ever get to a good hulk solo film. It has some flaws but I really enjoyed it for what it is. Its not an action packed movie but rather a drama that has some action in it.
It's my favourite Marvel film. By a *considerable* margin.
Most of the MCU films are slop. Junk food cinema.
Ang Lee's Hulk is not.
The bridging between "the macrocosm and the microcosm" is something i rarely, if ever, hear anyone else mention. I've always thought this to be the key to the correct interpretation of the film. It's a deeply Freudian idea (the Unconscious as vast, terrifying, and mysterious as the Universe) - and Nietzschean, embodied (in the worst possible way one can internalize old "Neech") by Nolte's David Banner - the Will to Power run amok, uncontrolled and uncontrollable in its selfish exploitation of *all* life by *one* life.
Greek Tragedy, Freudian Psychodrama, Mythological Archetypes, and a Nietzschean villain. What more could one want?
Btw you missed one element - Ice.
I'd also say Air (when Hulk & Absorbing Man go airborne) but it's a bit of a reach. That's still in the Fire stage (Lighting representing Fire here).
Fire, Air, Earth, Water, and Ice. In that order, as I recall.
But Fire, Water, and Earth is perhaps more elegant and thematically consistent.
You may have a point. "Fire, earth, and water" did feel a bit incomplete when I wrote it. When they "absorb all the ambient energy" and freeze the lake, its such a strong image of what unresolved psychological and spiritual conflict does to one's environment. It drains not only you but people around you.
@@xcurvatus There's a nice symmetry with Dante's deepest, 9th level of Hell in "Inferno".
Satan is bound in *ice* - not fire.
The early MCU films were good and entertaining even The Incredible Hulk film. It’s just that the quality dipped for the future ones more and more because of mishandling.
There are little things about stand alone movies that were actually bad. Seeing how mediocre and annoyingly weak they made him in the avengers makes the previous movies look so much better. He was a bad ass in those movies. Just wish they made a movie that truly showcases his true potential and what he can really do
Someone, I think it it may have been the Russo Brothers, said that the Hulk doesn't work well as a standalone character; but rather as a side character. I think that is just a poor excuse for poor storytelling.
@@xcurvatus well that's just absurd. If they think what he's done in the avengers movies as a supporting character is well executed then I can't see what their vision is for him. Surely he can offer more than just comedic relief at random times
I always thought i was a kid in the golden age of CGI (2002-2008). I thought it looked so real! CGI is so shitty these days.
If we wanna get anal about this Hulk, bear in mind this is the ONLY iteration that shows how physically powerful the Hulk is. In this he throws a tank for miles...in Endgame he struggles to throw a bench over a small lake.
And his strength/size is directly proportional to his level of anger
The split screen thing to emulate comic panels was stupid.
Wasn't like Ang didn't have any other comic book movies as a point of reference.
It was cheesy at times but there were moments where it was quite innovative and fit/set the tone. Also, its cool to me how there was very little of it in the climax of the movie. It was as if the whole movie was a comic book and then the style shifted to classic cinema at the end to give it dramatic heft.
It was unique, but people like you just like Mcu brain food for zombies.
It also took ques from the old TV show of the 1970s. There is a lot I like from this film and also a lot that I like from the 2008 hulk movie but this one is better in my opinion. MCU Hulk today just sucks and is basically just Mark Ruffalo with a hulk skin. I get that it's supposed to be "Professor Hulk" but let's be real. It's just Mark Ruffalo with a hulk skin on. Super cringey and I hate the new mcu and especially the over abundance of shows and movies. I want the older super hero movies with more serious tones and less campiness to em.
I don't mind a little campiness but the problem with Marvel is that their films are far too aware of their own campiness to the point of pulling you out of the story. Sam Raimi's Spiderman trilogy was a little campy (on purpose) but it was committed to and confident in its tone. The later Marvel films are constantly making fun of the themselves and it gets exhausting because you hardly ever get a real emotional moment that isn't immediately spoiled by some dumb joke that is meant to lighten the mood.