0:09 I don't remember where I posted this comment before. But I FINALLY have a 20" bar on my CS1800! I ordered the 68dl chain that was specified on the Oregon bar. Everything fits up perfectly. I'm going to try it out this afternoon on a couple of big rounds that I've got in the back yard. I'll report back later on it's performance. I couldn't wait; I just tried it. It works great! More extensive testing to come. Pitting it side by side with it's 18" stablemate.
Very interesting. This means that voltage, 56 v and 82 (72) v, matters. A giant greenworks tear when sawing to discharge plus another 11 percent left. Perhaps it's an electronic issue. I don't think it's the driven sprocket (0.325 -3/8) or the length of the guide bar (20"-24"). Yes, there are nuances, but not so much that there is such a huge difference in sawing at the same power. The latest information on the battery was that it was 21700, not 18650 as in previous versions without a percentage indicator. The H.O.G saw will have ventilation like the stihl msa 300, but whether it will be a filter or just a mesh is not yet clear. Greenworks has held up very well so far. But the ego also strives to be better.
I think you should do some tear-downs. Another factor would be air flow in the motor and battery compartments. If you look at the 'leaf springs' on the most recent GW saws, the battery cooling slots are right over it. If you tear down the whole saw, there are air channels that go from the fan-side of the motor. So not only do the fan vanes move air over the motor, they also keep some flow going through the battery itself. I tore down my 4080-06 to get sawdust out of the air ducts so the motor would cool better. . It performed a little better for a while, but mainly I noticed they redesigned some openings and channels on the 20"-ers.
I just received an 80v 4ah battery from Amazon and it’s printed right on it ‘not for use with 80v chainsaws’. No date of manufacture on it either. Not 82v like you’re testing, but it may show how quickly batteries are evolving since it looks like GW may be baring some older battery designs from chainsaw use. On GW website the battery I just got is sold out, but there’s a different model 4ah that may be newer they may authorize for chainsaw use. GW seems to be acting kinda mysterious about their chainsaw batteries, as right on the battery is the only place I see chainsaw use prohibited 🚫 for this 4ah battery.
Interesting. I know they have some newer 80v batteries that are lighter and smaller. I got 2 with a pressure washer and I don't see the no chainsaw marks, so I think they're ok.
I'm just surprised that none of their batteries can deal with the high draw from the saw. you'd think they'd make a special high discharge battery for it like stihl did. makes me wonder how globe will tackle this issue with the hog saw 🤔 I think using it with the 24" bar and bucking small stuff up 12" or 14" would allow the battery to stay cool and not overheat.
I don't think it is entirely the batteries' "Fault". GW had the same problem on prior models until they learned some lessons and added some active airflow through the batteries (theory based on my teardown). EGO waiting longer to 'get this saw right' meant they didn't have a saw in the 3kW class to learn these lesson on. GW kept evolutionary changes going; EGO thought theirs would be 'revolutionary' but they might have missed a lesson hard learned in the process. EGO is still thinking of these as a Good Battery + Good Saw = Good Battery Powered Saw GW has moved on to Good Battery + Saw that Cools the Battery = Good Long-Lasting Battery Saw. The delivered package is what matters. That's my going hypothesis to make sense of the data anyway.
Do you know if the instructions manual say anything about a duty cycle or anything like that? It's just got me curious with how hot the motor is getting. If you're simply exceeding the amount of work they recommend. I know it allows you to max out the load meter but maybe they recommend it only for 2 or 3 cuts at a time.
@@benjaminleslie3155 I don't remember the exact words in the manual... I'll look again, but it did more or less say that if you keep the load meter pegged on full, that it will overheat.
Hi; two things: 1. I found out from EGO that the speeds for the CSX5000 are; low; 20, medium 25, and; as we already knew; high is 30. 2. When I registered my 12ah battery; they required a dated receipt. I requested one from Power+Parts and I emailed EGO a screenshot; and that satisfied EGO'S requirements. When I was on the phone with EGO about the speeds; I asked them about the status of my warranty. That's how I knew they were satisfied. AND; they asked me to take a survey over the phone; to which I gladly agreed. They told me if I took the survey; I would receive an extended warranty on my 12ah battery. So now my battery is warrantied until 2029!
Great Compairison again. What do you think wy the saw got slower, because of less battery power so save them or because of the chain sharpness. Greenworks is my Favorite right know. Nearly simliar power, higher endurance and lower cost
my 82v commercial greenworks only lasted 6 months my 60v lasted a year and a half and my 80v still limps along and can do a tree before issues after a year. my 60v would still be going if i didnt crush it.
I like your thinking at the end there👍. Thanks for doing all this testing, it really makes ya think! Weren’t you confused about the 12ah’s weight being about the same as the 8ah? Confused me too, but it seems ah ratings aren’t what we think they are since the cells internal resistance increases as the amperage draw goes up. So, Ego may have increased the ah rating of the pack by using cells constructed for less internal resistance at a higher amp load vs adding more cells. So, a more aggressive cut ads more load to the battery from the saw and from the increase in the battery’s internal resistance too. It’s a double whammy and that Ego can probably draw over 70amps when you lean on it, given it runs at lowerV/higherA. GW running cooler makes sense due to its higher voltage. More volt = less amps = less heat. Seems that’d give GW an advantage in lifespan too. It takes 20 fully charged (@4.2v) 18680 cells in series to get 82v and only 14 (@4.0v)to get to 56v, so GW gets a weight penalty for its higher V though.
I looked up weights on all the batteries for both ego and greenworks, the Ah relationship doesn't seem linear across the batteries with weight. I need to get a better understanding of how these work.
@@reusefull there’s a lot more to it than I thought. It seems the cells in a battery that’s supposed to run high amperage (like a chainsaw) need to be constructed differently or the cell internal resistance gets very high and the cell kinda has to fight itself. The construction to allow for higher amperage costs more though. Saws getting more and more powerful seems to have gotten ahead of the batteries offered, but maybe they’re catching up and not just trying to add more and more of the same type cells in parallel to try and get more power.
@@reusefull8Ah@72V=576Wh (Watt-hours). 12Ah*50.4V=605Wh. Wh is a measure of energy the battery has. Ah and voltage isn't. Both batteries are pretty much the same 'size". However, at 50.4V, the Ego battery cells are pushing ~40% more amps to achieve the same power output of the GW battery cells (73/50.4). The GW saw definitely has more headroom than the Ego. Curious what the difference is when both saws have their stock bars on.
@jeremybelcher6681 I don't think it's a large difference. I'm running a skip tooth on the 24 inch bar and it doesn't seem to work the saw quite as hard. I'll mess around a bit, but I was also thinking of running a full comp chain to see how they compare. I have to grab a smaller log to test the 20 inch bars, they don't quite reach through the one I have on the stand right now.
I'd like to know what GW is using to sense load and if there is a way to "fool" it or bypass it. Electric motors can handle much higher than 100F temps, 140F should still be plenty safe.
@@reusefull Motor insulation should be good to 180F and the permanent magnets up to 200F. Even 120F at the shaft would be better and still likely keep the internal motor temp low enough. I'm guessing they are using battery voltage drop as the limiting factor not motor temp, since the saw will shut down faster with a smaller battery where the voltage drops faster under load.
@JRP3 I definitely agree that the battery management system is what's shutting it down, but I really don't have a good sense of what the internal temps and limits are. It did seem as if the Ego had a power drop a couple times just before shutdown that could've been from a different monitoring system.
@John-cj3ve will really have to see what the batteries can handle. If milwaukees torque number is for real, that is a huge amount of torque. If the saw is capable of sustaining that, it will support a pretty good sized bar. I mean, just as a reference, 9.6nm of torque is significantly more than ANY production has saw that I'm aware of. The Stihl MS881 makes 8nm.
@@reusefullGood Lord! I don't see how the rating for the Milwaukee can be accurate then. Given the physical size and voltage of the Milwaukee battery; their torque rating doesn't seem possible.
Higher voltage is more efficient and offers less resistance and heat in all conductors for the same power output. Also all the fastest most powerful EVs on earth (Model S Plaid, Lucid Sapphire etc) are all still using 18650 NMC cells instead of 2170. Even though the 18650 is one of the oldest Li-ion cells in existence the advantages for high C rate applications are pretty clear.
I also think that if you don't put too much pressure on the saw, there would be more cuts and the batteries would stay cold. Should be tested under normal use. I'm watching all your test videos, thanks.👍👍👍
0:09 I don't remember where I posted this comment before. But I FINALLY have a 20" bar on my CS1800!
I ordered the 68dl chain that was specified on the Oregon bar. Everything fits up perfectly.
I'm going to try it out this afternoon on a couple of big rounds that I've got in the back yard. I'll report back later on it's performance.
I couldn't wait; I just tried it. It works great! More extensive testing to come. Pitting it side by side with it's 18" stablemate.
Very interesting. This means that voltage, 56 v and 82 (72) v, matters. A giant greenworks tear when sawing to discharge plus another 11 percent left. Perhaps it's an electronic issue. I don't think it's the driven sprocket (0.325 -3/8) or the length of the guide bar (20"-24"). Yes, there are nuances, but not so much that there is such a huge difference in sawing at the same power. The latest information on the battery was that it was 21700, not 18650 as in previous versions without a percentage indicator. The H.O.G saw will have ventilation like the stihl msa 300, but whether it will be a filter or just a mesh is not yet clear. Greenworks has held up very well so far. But the ego also strives to be better.
I think battery weight and heat dissipation are the limiting factor for all these saws that are operating at maximum power.
I think you should do some tear-downs. Another factor would be air flow in the motor and battery compartments. If you look at the 'leaf springs' on the most recent GW saws, the battery cooling slots are right over it. If you tear down the whole saw, there are air channels that go from the fan-side of the motor. So not only do the fan vanes move air over the motor, they also keep some flow going through the battery itself.
I tore down my 4080-06 to get sawdust out of the air ducts so the motor would cool better. . It performed a little better for a while, but mainly I noticed they redesigned some openings and channels on the 20"-ers.
I just received an 80v 4ah battery from Amazon and it’s printed right on it ‘not for use with 80v chainsaws’. No date of manufacture on it either. Not 82v like you’re testing, but it may show how quickly batteries are evolving since it looks like GW may be baring some older battery designs from chainsaw use. On GW website the battery I just got is sold out, but there’s a different model 4ah that may be newer they may authorize for chainsaw use. GW seems to be acting kinda mysterious about their chainsaw batteries, as right on the battery is the only place I see chainsaw use prohibited 🚫 for this 4ah battery.
Interesting. I know they have some newer 80v batteries that are lighter and smaller. I got 2 with a pressure washer and I don't see the no chainsaw marks, so I think they're ok.
Greenworks sawed approximately 7 meter boards approximately 40 cm wide on an 8 amp/hour battery.
I'm just surprised that none of their batteries can deal with the high draw from the saw. you'd think they'd make a special high discharge battery for it like stihl did. makes me wonder how globe will tackle this issue with the hog saw 🤔 I think using it with the 24" bar and bucking small stuff up 12" or 14" would allow the battery to stay cool and not overheat.
I think "pouch" batteries are supposed to help with that.
I don't think it is entirely the batteries' "Fault". GW had the same problem on prior models until they learned some lessons and added some active airflow through the batteries (theory based on my teardown). EGO waiting longer to 'get this saw right' meant they didn't have a saw in the 3kW class to learn these lesson on.
GW kept evolutionary changes going; EGO thought theirs would be 'revolutionary' but they might have missed a lesson hard learned in the process.
EGO is still thinking of these as a Good Battery + Good Saw = Good Battery Powered Saw
GW has moved on to Good Battery + Saw that Cools the Battery = Good Long-Lasting Battery Saw. The delivered package is what matters.
That's my going hypothesis to make sense of the data anyway.
Do you know if the instructions manual say anything about a duty cycle or anything like that? It's just got me curious with how hot the motor is getting. If you're simply exceeding the amount of work they recommend. I know it allows you to max out the load meter but maybe they recommend it only for 2 or 3 cuts at a time.
@@benjaminleslie3155 I don't remember the exact words in the manual... I'll look again, but it did more or less say that if you keep the load meter pegged on full, that it will overheat.
Hi; two things: 1. I found out from EGO that the speeds for the CSX5000 are; low; 20, medium 25, and; as we already knew; high is 30.
2. When I registered my 12ah battery; they required a dated receipt. I requested one from Power+Parts and I emailed EGO a screenshot; and that satisfied EGO'S requirements.
When I was on the phone with EGO about the speeds; I asked them about the status of my warranty. That's how I knew they were satisfied.
AND; they asked me to take a survey over the phone; to which I gladly agreed.
They told me if I took the survey; I would receive an extended warranty on my 12ah battery. So now my battery is warrantied until 2029!
Time decays battery performance more than use. By 2029 you won't even want that battery.
Great Compairison again.
What do you think wy the saw got slower, because of less battery power so save them or because of the chain sharpness.
Greenworks is my Favorite right know. Nearly simliar power, higher endurance and lower cost
I definitely like the endurance of the Greenworks. The only thing that bums me out in general is the parts availability.
Thanks for posting. I've been following all your comparison videos. Any chance you can show a noodle cut with it?
I'll work on that, I've got some other skip tooth chains to try.
my 82v commercial greenworks only lasted 6 months my 60v lasted a year and a half and my 80v still limps along and can do a tree before issues after a year. my 60v would still be going if i didnt crush it.
The 82v has a 2 year warranty... I warrantied mine at 1yr 11 months!
Retest with the ego in the middle chain speed
I like your thinking at the end there👍. Thanks for doing all this testing, it really makes ya think!
Weren’t you confused about the 12ah’s weight being about the same as the 8ah? Confused me too, but it seems ah ratings aren’t what we think they are since the cells internal resistance increases as the amperage draw goes up. So, Ego may have increased the ah rating of the pack by using cells constructed for less internal resistance at a higher amp load vs adding more cells.
So, a more aggressive cut ads more load to the battery from the saw and from the increase in the battery’s internal resistance too. It’s a double whammy and that Ego can probably draw over 70amps when you lean on it, given it runs at lowerV/higherA.
GW running cooler makes sense due to its higher voltage. More volt = less amps = less heat. Seems that’d give GW an advantage in lifespan too. It takes 20 fully charged (@4.2v) 18680 cells in series to get 82v and only 14 (@4.0v)to get to 56v, so GW gets a weight penalty for its higher V though.
I looked up weights on all the batteries for both ego and greenworks, the Ah relationship doesn't seem linear across the batteries with weight. I need to get a better understanding of how these work.
@@reusefull there’s a lot more to it than I thought. It seems the cells in a battery that’s supposed to run high amperage (like a chainsaw) need to be constructed differently or the cell internal resistance gets very high and the cell kinda has to fight itself. The construction to allow for higher amperage costs more though. Saws getting more and more powerful seems to have gotten ahead of the batteries offered, but maybe they’re catching up and not just trying to add more and more of the same type cells in parallel to try and get more power.
@@reusefull8Ah@72V=576Wh (Watt-hours). 12Ah*50.4V=605Wh. Wh is a measure of energy the battery has. Ah and voltage isn't.
Both batteries are pretty much the same 'size".
However, at 50.4V, the Ego battery cells are pushing ~40% more amps to achieve the same power output of the GW battery cells (73/50.4).
The GW saw definitely has more headroom than the Ego. Curious what the difference is when both saws have their stock bars on.
@jeremybelcher6681 I don't think it's a large difference. I'm running a skip tooth on the 24 inch bar and it doesn't seem to work the saw quite as hard. I'll mess around a bit, but I was also thinking of running a full comp chain to see how they compare. I have to grab a smaller log to test the 20 inch bars, they don't quite reach through the one I have on the stand right now.
I'd like to know what GW is using to sense load and if there is a way to "fool" it or bypass it. Electric motors can handle much higher than 100F temps, 140F should still be plenty safe.
I think EGO is more concerned with the battery temperature than the motor's.
I'm sure the temp in at the motor is hotter than the end of the shaft, I would be pretty nervous to run it hotter.
@@reusefull Motor insulation should be good to 180F and the permanent magnets up to 200F. Even 120F at the shaft would be better and still likely keep the internal motor temp low enough. I'm guessing they are using battery voltage drop as the limiting factor not motor temp, since the saw will shut down faster with a smaller battery where the voltage drops faster under load.
@JRP3 I definitely agree that the battery management system is what's shutting it down, but I really don't have a good sense of what the internal temps and limits are. It did seem as if the Ego had a power drop a couple times just before shutdown that could've been from a different monitoring system.
Hey @reusefull; given that the CSX5000 doesn't care whether the bar is 20", or 24"; are we looking at a 36-42" bar for the H.O.G. saw?😁
@John-cj3ve will really have to see what the batteries can handle. If milwaukees torque number is for real, that is a huge amount of torque. If the saw is capable of sustaining that, it will support a pretty good sized bar.
I mean, just as a reference, 9.6nm of torque is significantly more than ANY production has saw that I'm aware of. The Stihl MS881 makes 8nm.
So; what is the torque rating for the CSX5000?
@John-cj3ve I can't find that info anywhere...🤷♂️ I would say that it isn't much different than the 82CS34 which is rated 4Nm
@@reusefullGood Lord! I don't see how the rating for the Milwaukee can be accurate then.
Given the physical size and voltage of the Milwaukee battery; their torque rating doesn't seem possible.
@@John-cj3ve I don't know, but we'll find out!
Higher voltage is more efficient and offers less resistance and heat in all conductors for the same power output. Also all the fastest most powerful EVs on earth (Model S Plaid, Lucid Sapphire etc) are all still using 18650 NMC cells instead of 2170. Even though the 18650 is one of the oldest Li-ion cells in existence the advantages for high C rate applications are pretty clear.
I also think that if you don't put too much pressure on the saw, there would be more cuts and the batteries would stay cold.
Should be tested under normal use.
I'm watching all your test videos, thanks.👍👍👍
I would agree that if I ease up, there will be more cuts before overeating.
@@reusefull The comparison would be fairer for normal use.
The 82CS34 does a LOT better with a .043 gauge chain....
@@neilhochstedler7574 what size bar are you using?
first lul