I wish Atlus would make more games like Catherine Not necessarily a puzzle game but just another somewhat shorter game stylized to hell and back and explore some cool themes in cool ways The Golden Playhouse is such a good framing device it’s a shame Atlus doesnt capitalize on it more
I also was hoping for more games under the Golden Playhouse banner. Maybe stuff down the pipe later. Atlus *is* about to release a sequel to a 20+ year-old game in a week.
29:35 I also love the "girlboss off into the sunset" ending but I can't get over how hilarious it is that Katherine is trying to give Vincent (standing 80ft away) advice while getting into a helicopter about to take off. I just keep imagining Vincent being like "whAT?" and watching Katherine's lips move and only hearing VVVVVVSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.
Honestly finally some Katherine respect I swear everyone gets really hung up on her being kinda bitchy but like honestly? They've been together for fucking ever and Vincent is just Vincent and like. Can you blame her literally at all?
i was always a K-katherine stan, good to see her get some recognition. in the og game, to me she never came off as bitchy or "karen"ish, just someone who was frustrated by the stagnation of her relationship and Vincent's lack of ambition and foresight
Buns, as someone living in Japan, the "You live like this?" is actually pretty accurate to what an apartment in Japan is like. Mine is only a bit bigger with a separate kitchen because I live outside of Tokyo so it's actually affordable. An apartment somewhere in Tokyo that's about the size of that one is going to be like $800-$1,000/month.
Bro that's less than what I pay in the UNITED STATES. In Arizona, for a sucky fully furnished apartment that feels like a Dollhouse I pay 1247.04$ every month. I would love to pay 800$ or hell, even 1000...
Bruh. I have a two bedroom apartment with a living room, batbroom, kitchen and small laundry room/storage closet all for $900 CAD a month. You're getting scammed.
@@jacobp.4593 I don't personally live in something that expensive, my single bedroom with a kitchen apartment is only around $350usd because I live outside of Tokyo. I lived in an apartment in Michigan that's the same as yours that was only $700/month. Apartments IN Tokyo are just expensive.
While Rin could've been handled better there was a scene that really made me like the character. It was when Vincent opened up to him and said he was always taught very rigid ideals of what it meant to be a man, how to act, and what he could like and when he could like it. Then Rin responded by saying "No one has the right to decide what's important to you" it was a very simple line but something I needed to hear at the time and something I still remember now and sold me on his route.
@@bannedmann4469 except people aren't arguing that representation should be personally important to you. The reason representation matters is because positive media representation can be helpful in increasing self-esteem for people of marginalized groups (especially youth), it can provide validation and support, and it assists in reducing stereotypes of underrepresented groups.
@@Abyzz_Knight First of all, I'm in multiple of those demographics that wre deemed "oppressed". So they are arguing just that. Secondly, there are arguments inside this argument. Over who exactly is oppressed. And there are serious problems with gaining self esteem from media. Do you have any idea how stupid and dangerous that is? Do you not understand how that sets people up to fail? Cut the crap.
Atlus is like that sweet dad that wants to be supportive towards their coming out and changing kid but is stuck in awkward jokes and dad puns mode. They're trying... just not doing so well yet
20:35 The sad part is that with Erica catching on that quickly to what Vincent had done and reacting like that, there are strong implications that he responded that way to her transition as well.
What's actually sad about this is that he didn't learn from the first time. This might sound transphobic, but it's not sad that he did it the first time, it's to be expected. Those of a more enlightened generation probably won't feel and react that way, but what do you expect from people back then? I know, saying it was a different time isn't an excuse usually, but we REALLY didn't know better back then.
Funny enough, Rin was my favoured love interest BECAUSE of how mushy-gushy their chemistry is. It just makes me feel at ease with how wholesome it is compared to the stress that comes with interacting with the other two. Catherine being possessive and violent and Katherine being low-key a Karen although Full Body's exploration of her definitely made me like her a lot more than the original.
I'm obviously biased because I basically only bought that game after hearing it had a gay femboy character, but yeah same here, I loved their dynamic so much. It was so wholesome.
I always believed Vincent hit it off with Rin so well because Vincent starts neutral and which is where you need to be for Rin's route. Also they should have just made Rin an Angel.
I always felt like Katherine was kinda done dirty by the older version of the game. In this game you actually *see* why these two might have ended up together and why it's actually sad that their relationship is stuck in a plateau. It's not Katherine "being a bitch," it's moreso Vincent being indecisive but too scared to have a serious talk with his girlfriend about their future together. It's something that I think is actually pretty big, because the jump from "going steady" to "living the rest of your life with this person" is rightfully scary. So showing the player why you might want that is something the game sorely needed.
I really wish Rin had been revealed to be an angel rather than an alien. I feel like they would’ve been taken more seriously and it would’ve felt more in tune with the feel of the game imo (since devils are in the game it wouldn’t have been crazy to have angels). And it would’ve gone further to show that there is nothing wrong with being gay. Rin being an alien feels like the game is saying that being gay is “alien” or strange. Again, just my opinion
Probably more truth in that than you realize. OG Catherine was a graphical engine test for what eventually became P5, and a lot of the character visual designs for P5 and Catherine were built from the same initial concept sheets (Katherine ➡️ Sae, Vincent ➡️ Joker, Catherine ➡️ Ann, Orlando ➡️ Ryuji, etc.) I bet a bit of Erica bled into Mokoto’s design somewhere when her and Hifumi’s designs diverged.
@@sodathejunker you just blew the one brain cell I have out of my god damn skull. You’re fucking right! I didn’t see it until you connected them. Thank you.
18:14 holy shit atlas ACTUALLY took the Game Grumps "Qatherine with a Q" joke and made it canon! THEY MADE A JOKE ABOUT A THIRD CATHERINE "with a Q" 4 YEARS BEFORE FULL BODY CAME OUT!!!
I kinda liked how the Rin reveal and Vincent's immediate reaction was done. I prefer it when characters in stories are flawed people, and don't immediately give the perfect response to a situation. People in life fuck up sometimes, and if they're good people, they work to rectify their mistakes. That's what makes good storytelling, in my opinion.
I can understand that perspective, but it's such a trope in animated Japanese media that for anyone who's seen it already a bunch of times the potential nuances and intention are kinda lost, such is the trouble with cliches. Plus he has a long time friend who's a trans woman, so his reaction makes less sense in that context since shouldn't he be a little less completely flabbergasted by this kind of thing and also maybe not ask "are you a guy?" first thing in response to learning someone is AMAB when they present completely feminine?
@@eoincampbell1584 I feel like just because someone is friends with someone doesn't mean they are 100% understanding of all of their decisions in life. After all, they have no problem discussing sex and other things with the other guys in their friend group (ie toby, Orlando, Johnny,) but the moment erica comes up they act very awkward about her sex life and her relationship with toby. They have no problem talking about Vincent's sex life with Katherine and she was a part of the friend group as well, so there's a clear distinction there. Erica is a part of their friend group but that doesn't mean Vincent is as close or supportive as you'd think. Edit: also, it's shown that Vincent is clearly ignorant in a lot of things, and erica clearly went the full 9-yards and got complete sex change surgery. If that's Vincent's only exposure to someone like that, it does make sense that he wouldn't understand that a person doesn't need to fully get a surgery to transition, as there are a lot of real life people with that mindset. (After all crossdressing is a thing as well, no need to change gender for that so he could assume rin just crossdresses) Either way, he's an idiot, that's been established.
40:00 I thought I should let you know that right as you were making the speech here, my fiance went 'ok kingdom hearts' sarcastically. We both had a good laugh when you played the audio
Thank you for bringing up how discrimination is just expressed differently in Japan rather than nonexistent. The "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality is so pervasive over there when combined with how draconian some aspects of their political parties can be (we're not any better). Great coverage on a game I've always felt iffy about though!
I loved Catherine's new true ending, it was quite surprising to see her go from "the whole kid thing would have to be off the table" in the original true ending to "time traveling to your past so we can have a family" in the new true end.
@@jackthorton10 I heard that theory and I love it. It would be sad to think that Catherine and Vincent would just send their son away when he had assault charges though...
@@jackthorton10 It's not explicitly stated, but it's implied due to the non japanese naming of the characters and their overall designs that Catherine takes place in the US, and not Japan, where almost every other Megaten game takes place in.
As someone who's a huge bayonetta fan, with that being my 1st AAA gaming experience back in the 2010's, Catherine's whole romance, murder & jazz vibe always gelled with me thanks to that
We were blessed alright. Nothing for 6 months then she drops an hour-long preach session about lgbt representation in video games. talk about a downhill trajectory.
25:00 "Sometimes the characters feel rather reductive. They're more of an archetype than a person, that aren't exactly the most likeable bunch." Sounds like Atlus characters, alright. Confirms my placement of this in the pantheon of SMT spinoffs.
I’m also reminded that the aliens are also supposed to be angels, so they add that to them amongst things. Since the OG really weird handling of LGBT and angelic beings can be traced back to Satan in Devilman and those who draw inspiration from him like Kaworu Nagisa and the like. That said the fact that Angels = Aliens makes Demons/Gods scared shitless in their presence funnier.
Something that bothers me about Rin is how it _feels_ as if they’re the “obviously correct” choice. Both Catherine and Katherine are… messy, it seems like. Neither option feels like the “right” choice, when you look at them both. And that’s what makes them interesting, I think, because relationships _aren’t_ perfect. So Rin just kind of feels… out of place, to a degree.
I thought they were gonna make the ostensibly female Rin "the younger woman" and have their relationship go really smooth at first. Ya know, he gets to act like an older brother and the one she looks up to. Then he was going to realize that even through it was an easy time, she wasn't at the same point of her life as he was. Maybe kind of a weird sex moment where he couldn't go through with it because they had such a good relationship with him as a mentor/advice giver. Having Rin's obstacle be "he's a male" is kind of weird. I don't think most gay or bi people see that as an "obstacle" a partner brings to the table. But whatever. I'm not gay or bi myself, so I just saw Rin as a cool character for my Vincent to interact with. It definitely doesn't hurt the game, but it went from a study of "the things middle aged men have issues with in relationships" to that plus "what if I'm also bi?"
i felt like the whole mini freak out from Vin about Rin was well done. im in the LGBT+ community myself. he was under the impression Rin was something he wasn't. a female. And Vincent isn't exactly a good person. it was a shock for the dude. in a vacuum is it a good portrayal of the LGBT community? not really. but in the context of the story it makes a lot of sense. and the fact that you can choose to move past it and romance him is a good thing. baby steps.
I mean, having your belief of something or someone suddenly proven wrong is a shock no matter the circumstances. Disgust and withdrawal in that type of situation is a natural human reaction because your brain has to reevaluate what it thought it knew about the world and then reinterpret what your new opinions of a situation should be. Some people process that faster than others. Ultimately, the final mentally-processed acceptance should say a lot more about Vincent's character arc than any initial confusion activating his fight or flight response, since that was a more considered and voluntary choice. I've never played the game, so there is that, and I could be missing stuff not mentioned in this video, but that's my feeling in a similar situation at least
@@sonofsalt4079 literally not a single gay person in the comments has said anything like that. Many have even said that it’s a realistic reaction. Your strawman in showing.
Shitty dude, shitty reaction... But fuck at lest he apologized after cuz he knew what he did was wrong and why.... I didn't get that apology more then I did get one
@@montanarose4622 but it IS true that people will call you a piece of shit for not wanting to date a trans person. Just because you don't see it here, doesn't mean it's not something that exists
In retrospect i feel like there's a more sympathetic viewpoint to hold Vincent to - he only started cheating with Catherine when he... got so drunk that she took advantage of his inability to make an informed decision for the express purpose of ruining his life. In other words, she raped him. The story obviously doesn't see it this way because female on male rape is barely acknowledged to exist anywhere, but it does put his sheer... Vincent-ness in another light, if you're willing to squint a little.
Perfect KT cameos in this one. Nice to see you back on the grind, Buns! This has been a long time coming, and watching your progress on Twitter about editing this video was super insightful. Thanks for all your hard work and effort.
As a recently out bisexual man, I personally felt a lot of conflicting feelings when discovering my sexuality. There was a lot of self-doubt at the beginning. I can see Vincent's reaction to Rin as more of a questioning of his sexuality.
Ace male here. Been out for a few years now, and I can definitely agree with you there. It was definitely a bit of a shock when my Aceness clicked for me. Especially because I'm still heteromantic (or Gynoromantic, since I might be gender fluid. Still figuring out that side of me). By the way, congrats on being out and open about who you are. You are awesome, valid, and absolutely deserve to feel good about yourself.
Having met two or three guys who has similar reactions to a reveal like that one, I agree that it was a realistic reaction. That it does not align with the *expected* reaction is an entirely different matter.
I think the issue is more the fact that his reaction mirrors the very frequently violent response made against trans people irl when their partner finds out. Many assaults and outright murders have been justified by this "gay panic" defense. I would say that Vincent's reaction is a realistic, if mild, depiction of that scenario. But maybe Super BB felt that such an awful trend doesn't need to be echoed in media.
Those secret endings are funny, Katherine becomes the temptress that is playing and taunting Vincent, pretending to be with a new man to torment him even though she misses him, while the crazy bitch Catherine gives him the stable life with a family that he was scared of. It's like a zen riddle how the c/katherines weren't being true to themselves and were just playing a role, by switching it up they became happy.
Look, whether you like it or not - Vincent's reaction to "the revewal" is 100% genuine. That is ABSOLUTELY the normal reaction from a straight man who finds out he's been lied to in that way. The difference is that he comes to grips with the news, apologizes, and resumes the relationship. Real life doesn't typically go that way. And I know I'm giong to get hate for this but nor should it. That's the sort of thing you need to be up-front about.
@@basicsimp8798 It's a concept called "lying by omission." From Vincent's perspective, there was never any reason to doubt that Rin was female. This is one of those innate presumptions we make when we meet someone (unless there's gender ambiguity in how they present). So by NOT coming out about it up front, Vincent is lead to believe his lying eyes and ears. When the truth is then reviewed, it's absolutely a shock.
Japan is not all roses and sunshines. Suicide rates are super high because of the pressure on men to stay at work despite not getting paid nor ever getting sleep. Whatever you do if someone is sleeping on the train and you can tell its a business man LEAVE HIM ALONE AND LET HIM SLEEP. Tons of problems with the USA but tons also with Japan too and all other countries. Thank god we aren't North Korea though or China.
I always found Vincent losing his mind over the Rin reveal to be weird. I could *maybe* buy it if it actually was the first time meeting someone like Rin, but Erica is one of his closest friends, it's not like this is out of the realm of possibility for him.
@@sv32099 Also hypocritical seeing what he was doing with Toby (Not telling him about Erica when he was crushing on her! Yeah Erica and the guys are also bad on this! And I can get Erica being not for telling him out of fear of his reaction! But stringing him along did bite her in the ass as Dumuzi that hypocrite put her in the dream curse as a sheep in response to leading Toby on like that! It is leading when she flirts with him, but hasn't told him or let him know the truth! The guys likely never said anything out of respect for her, but that respect is SHE has to tell him, but they could have said something) Feels like the writers FORGOT when they put that in, realized their mistake, but doubled down and tried to write around it and it was VERY noticeable! Both from newcomers who by this point caught on to Erica's Trans status & Vincent's awareness of it and Veterans like myself who already knew and had JAWS WIDE OPEN when that scene came up and how out of character Vin was! Though I try to say the stress of everything up to that point might have had an effect! I say it STORY wise, in real life I just call it bad writing
This is not a comparable situation at all? Vincent is long time friends with Erica, they know and trust each other, and are clearly ok with what they have Rin on the other hand, shows up literally out of nowhere, and at a really unfortunate and stressing time for Vincent They have a calming effect on him and soon become a third love interest, and during this whole time He is completely 100% sure Rin is just another girl, and then one day as they get to trust each other, Rin, who at no point gives any warning or indication of being trans or anything, just randomly decides to flash him? Now you could argue Rin *is* trans or nonbinary or just a regular male that likes to crossdress, but the point is, it doesn't matter, because it would still make Vincent question himself and wonder why the hell they didn't mention before. Imagine, you are a woman and you like guys, not a single doubt about that. Then you are dating a guy and out of nowhere turns out that guy was actually a cis girl all along and they never said anything or even hinted at it. I would be pissed. And even then it doesn't last long, it's clearly a reaction mostly out of shock and betrayal, and he soon realizes he was too harsh on Rin anyway. I feel like people really fail to see the context properly/put themselves in Vincent's shoes when it comes to this moment. To me it just feels realistic.
I like that Rin is very clearly presented as just a crossdressing male, while removing the deadnaming from Erica. Some people keep trying to argue that Rin is trans, but the game specifically points out that the only people using female pronouns are those that don't know the secret.
I just watched another YT video uploaded to day, tl;dr toxic people attacking Trans for not being femboys and the other toxic side attacking femboys for not being trans. Like seriously, gender is a personal choice, leave em alone and stop deciding the gender of other people.
@@Greatsharkbite If you wanna be very technical, yeah you don't really get to choose whether you have dysphoria, but I suspect that's not what you meant.
11:18 It wasn't just infidelity, to the best of my knowledge the men are 'summoned' for basically 'wasting women's time'. Basically this demon/god is upset that these guys are not 'going forth and multiplying' with their women and instead keeping them from continuing the human race. (hence why Johnny was chosen as he was basically just leading his girlfriend on when he didn't want to commit). Which considering our overpopulation issue in some areas is a bit questionable.
Japan has a population growth issue (mostly due to their unrealistic immigration policies but regardless). It makes sense that Japanese writers would feel differently about this as their country is looking at serious deficits for their society in the future. Population growth levels out naturally but a society that shrinks too fast won’t be able to support their elderly, maintain a strong economy, or integrate immigrants slowly enough to maintain certain desirable cultural norms.
Japan has the opposite issue of a lowering population. many japanese ppl are increasingly not interested in sex and relationships with other people, in part to their immigration policies, gender related tensions, and puritan, conservative general culture. the work culture also doesn’t exactly leave many people time for sex, so it’s a culmination of many things
@@vysharra The West has low birthrates despite having very lax immigration laws. Opening immigration in Japan wouldn't boost the native Japanese population only replace it.
It's been a while for me also, just wanted to say: so happy for your relationship! And as always detailed and funny discussion of the game, always a treat to see your videos. :)
It would have made more sense for Rin to have been an angel or something cause that alien shit threw me for a loop. Also you should check out 13 Sentinels its more of Vanillaware's baby but Atlus is the publisher and I think it had pretty good LGBT+ rep in it.
@@Touma_S there is still same sex attraction between two characters in the original. the localization only changed one line that implies that a certain character is also non-binary.
@@JohnathanJWells yea ik but without the alien stuff I think it would have just made more sense for them to be what we traditionally think of with angels, like how Catherine is a bona fide demon.
@shani2754 so a bunch of delusional people who believe in fairy tales had "non binary" people, and this somehow is an argument to win against me? lmao if that's all you got that proves me even more right.
I really liked this video because I don't play most games and I liked the jokes you made, also I really love that this got recommended for me because I truly felt that my routine in my life was what made me kinda miserable lately and hey I started changing that routine by seeing a video that I wouldn't normally see Very nice video hope RUclips keeps me notified
While the LGBT+ representation in ATLUS games is very far away from perfect, I do really appreciate that it seems like ATLUS is genuinely trying to learn how to do better. Although they will never be able to repent for the original sin of not letting us smooch Yosuke or Yusuke.
I really liked Rin. I was actually so surprised about how into his route I got. I feel like the overwhelmingly sweet and loving chemistry between him and Vincent is kinda canon for me.
@Grima the Fell Dragon I would. It's a good game if you can get into it. I loved the original and I was personally of Catherine with a C's team. She's my second favorite and while I'll never support cheating, theres something very magnitizing about her.
@@redmage5251 There’s a trans character; Erica, who everyone refers to as a female and therefore isn’t a transphobic portrayal. Rin is a male crossdresser, who refers to himself as a male, and only characters who DON’T know refer to as a female. It’s a trope; he’s an “otokonoko”.
I can never stress how much I love this game and what kind of personal impact it's made on my perception of love and what it means to be in a relationship when I was a teenager seeing this for the first time. And it eggs at me how nobody else in my life can see it the way I do. They'd see the scantily clad woman on the cover and excuse the whole game thinking I'm only into the game for the look of it all when Catherine herself is far from one of the top reasons I love this game like I do. It's a comfort game for me too and it warms my soul every time I reminisce about it. This was also the first time I was ever introduced proper to a trans character in media and having learned it in a twist via the True Katherine ending was a nice surprise. Even looking back on it now, I personally feel like Erica was handled marginally well, even if some of that quality was wasted on jokes at Toby's expense. Full Body felt like a barb-wired fence to hop through when seeing the way people talked about it/Rin (with the twist of his identity on full display). As someone who has come to identify as demipan, Full Body helped me compartmentalize a few distinct perspectives about how relationships can work through the KCQatherines and I'm all the more grateful for the experience, even if Full Body isn't my preferred version (The pacing Really feels tilted when you're going for a specific girl while the game is trying to have it both ways; made it really disorienting playing the Rin route on my very first playthrough). Nevertheless, this game is so important to me and I am glad it was my first Atlus game before I ever even heard of Persona. If I ever end up having a daughter, I am going to name her Katherine.
I’m glad they portrayed Erika as a woman, offensive alternate endings aside she’s still portrayed as a beautiful woman, where as Rin is literally a trans-flag colored twink, in their human form at least. I appreciate the fair criticism you give while appreciating the art itself
Personally, I always thought the added twist that Rin was also originally an alien who turned into a human to be really REALLY weird and left a bad taste in my mouth. Like…wasn’t this game originally about angels and demons, not aliens? Why not an Angel since Catherine was a Succubus? Maybe it’s just me, but the addition of those little pink aliens kind of annoyed me.
I woke up sick after vomiting all night just to found Buns uploaded a new video I'm not sure if I'm happy about spending the day in bed watching it in peace or just happy of Buns doing this kind of content again
I got really excited for this video, even though I know nothing of this game. Tbh when I'm feeling down I often watch one of your videos (usually botw, kh or ffxv for beginners) and they never fail to make me laugh! It's always a good day with a Buns video :')
@@gremlinman9724 1) It's not a porn game. Heavy sexual themes? Absolutely. Porn? No. 2) Yea it came out 3 years ago, and even longer for the og one, but not everyone has played it soooo...
"a very girlgas, gatelight, bosskeep workin lady" oh no Tyler's imploding Also this is my favorite video from you ever. I could be wrong but I think I'm right
I wish there was endings with the guys you help save from dying in the nightmares as well, as I was kinda invested in helping out and talking to everyone during my only rin route
I am honestly only one gay person, and like I know that there are real femboys that exist who identify as men but present more or less as women. THAT SAID the way it's presented and the fact it's such a trope in Japanese media just makes the whole "representation" of Rin feel like a cop out.
Catherine is one of my favorite games, and weirdly enough my first name is Rin. I was quite surprised at full body adding Rin! I was worried it'd ruin the flow of my favorite game but I really like my namesake as a character, fits well.
I can safely say that “Catherine” isn’t my type of game-just watching people play it gives me anxiety-but I love listening to you break down why games do or don’t work for you.
As silly and ridiculous as Catherine OG and Full Body is, I still love it to bits. It walks this bizarre line of mature themes about marriage, love, and figuring out what you want in life -- seemingly being that super rare title aimed towards thirty-something and the older crowd -- and it's also a silly and ridiculous anime game for the otaku crowd. For every grown-up scene that makes you reflect on your own choices, you get Vincent being the world's WORST protagonist and everyone being hyper-reactive. For as much as it earnestly tried to be positive towards LGBTQ and that anybody can be free to love who they want, they still had that ending scene with Toby being gross toward Erica. When it's bad, it's REALLY bad. But when it's good, hoo boy! the game stands out from dang near anything. It's such a weird, thoughtful, trashy, guilty pleasure of a game and I will not stop defending it. One more thing you might not have known, Buns! Rin reveals toward the end that his real name was never "Qatherine", but he just blurted out the first name he remembered after he lost his memory because he was told to watch out for Catherine the Succubus. His real name is the alien mumbo jumbo "@+*+?¥$", but when you reverse the audio, what is his real name?... *Catherine Full Body*
i have a hard time even watching this video because this game pisses me off so much, can someone tell me wether op discusses them detransitioning erica for no reason in the “best” ending
I first played FullBody last year on Switch and got so hooked on the game. I loved it, the gameplay was so addicting. Also, I really liked Rin and the themes of their route. I played the game twice to get both Katherine's and Rin's endings.
The goddamn editing/commentary in this video is FLOORING ME, I havent laughed this much in a little while lmaoooo Love this weird ass game and your content, bless Also did y'all know there was a Catherine competitive gaming community? Niche but so fascinating to watch, there's several around youtube I think
I'm all for Persona 6, considering Waluigi is practically his own gender, being, God, Demon, abomination, _and_ thing (nondiscriminatory) all packaged up into one perfect blight (and gift!) upon humanity. Can't wait to start dating him and try to fathom what he even IS. I expect my grey matter to melt during the social link.
I will fight whoever doesnt appreciate the work you put out here for FREE for us to enjoy. Take all the time you need to put make videos: I’m always happy to rewatch old content while waiting
didn't realize how much i missed your content. may go back and re-watch your older stuff. i cant count how many times i laughed out loud during this video, editing is god tier as usual.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
I wish Atlus would make more games like Catherine
Not necessarily a puzzle game but just another somewhat shorter game stylized to hell and back and explore some cool themes in cool ways
The Golden Playhouse is such a good framing device it’s a shame Atlus doesnt capitalize on it more
@u know me delete your account
"Stylized to hell and back"? "Explore some cool themes in cool ways" Have you heard of this underappreciated indie-darling called Persona 5?
@@bingo784 lol unfortunately I would not call any of the persona games "somewhat shorter"
@@shaeda Not with this attitude.
I also was hoping for more games under the Golden Playhouse banner. Maybe stuff down the pipe later. Atlus *is* about to release a sequel to a 20+ year-old game in a week.
29:35 I also love the "girlboss off into the sunset" ending but I can't get over how hilarious it is that Katherine is trying to give Vincent (standing 80ft away) advice while getting into a helicopter about to take off. I just keep imagining Vincent being like "whAT?" and watching Katherine's lips move and only hearing VVVVVVSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.
Honestly finally some Katherine respect I swear everyone gets really hung up on her being kinda bitchy but like honestly? They've been together for fucking ever and Vincent is just Vincent and like. Can you blame her literally at all?
Yes, no bitching. Don't like em, then leave. Women are always tryin to change men.
Yes. Yes I can. I get her reasons, but she is completely unpleasant and controlling about some things iirc.
i was always a K-katherine stan, good to see her get some recognition. in the og game, to me she never came off as bitchy or "karen"ish, just someone who was frustrated by the stagnation of her relationship and Vincent's lack of ambition and foresight
She is really unbearable for me - just awful, sorry!
ouais, elle n'est pas cool
Buns, as someone living in Japan, the "You live like this?" is actually pretty accurate to what an apartment in Japan is like. Mine is only a bit bigger with a separate kitchen because I live outside of Tokyo so it's actually affordable. An apartment somewhere in Tokyo that's about the size of that one is going to be like $800-$1,000/month.
So about what a studio costs in my city right now, nice.
Bro that's less than what I pay in the UNITED STATES.
In Arizona, for a sucky fully furnished apartment that feels like a Dollhouse I pay 1247.04$ every month.
I would love to pay 800$ or hell, even 1000...
@@LeBeau_42 Tokyo is a living wage city so their rent is a lot lower than big US cities. And also, our glorious US of A is a capitalist nightmare so.
Bruh. I have a two bedroom apartment with a living room, batbroom, kitchen and small laundry room/storage closet all for $900 CAD a month. You're getting scammed.
@@jacobp.4593 I don't personally live in something that expensive, my single bedroom with a kitchen apartment is only around $350usd because I live outside of Tokyo. I lived in an apartment in Michigan that's the same as yours that was only $700/month. Apartments IN Tokyo are just expensive.
Full Body's LGBTQ+ representation basically boils down to "He's a little confused, but he's got the spirit!"
I see an OG Fresh Prince of Bel-Air quote, I like immediately.
Eh. I’m much more positive about it and think it was handled well for the most part.
@MANTIS_739 so true
(points) KAVEH ICON
@MANTIS_739 the gay route we never had 😔
While Rin could've been handled better there was a scene that really made me like the character. It was when Vincent opened up to him and said he was always taught very rigid ideals of what it meant to be a man, how to act, and what he could like and when he could like it. Then Rin responded by saying "No one has the right to decide what's important to you" it was a very simple line but something I needed to hear at the time and something I still remember now and sold me on his route.
I feel like this logic needs to be applied to the representation arguments themselves.
@@bannedmann4469 People aren't deciding that "LGBTQ isn't important to them", people are deciding that "LGBTQ should die."
Stark difference.
@@internetguy7319 wtf are you on about?
@@bannedmann4469 except people aren't arguing that representation should be personally important to you. The reason representation matters is because positive media representation can be helpful in increasing self-esteem for people of marginalized groups (especially youth), it can provide validation and support, and it assists in reducing stereotypes of underrepresented groups.
@@Abyzz_Knight First of all, I'm in multiple of those demographics that wre deemed "oppressed". So they are arguing just that. Secondly, there are arguments inside this argument. Over who exactly is oppressed. And there are serious problems with gaining self esteem from media. Do you have any idea how stupid and dangerous that is? Do you not understand how that sets people up to fail? Cut the crap.
Atlus is like that sweet dad that wants to be supportive towards their coming out and changing kid but is stuck in awkward jokes and dad puns mode. They're trying... just not doing so well yet
Fr. They're trying but they ain't there just yet
At least they're trying. Better than being hostile towards lgbt's
@@tartoflan True, at least they acknowledge his reaction to Rin is definitely bad.
Rin is gross
FFFFF; Atlus!! I need another Ogre Battle! NOW!!
I just remember one ending where Vincent ends up with no one and he fucks off to space to live his best life.
20:35 The sad part is that with Erica catching on that quickly to what Vincent had done and reacting like that, there are strong implications that he responded that way to her transition as well.
What's actually sad about this is that he didn't learn from the first time. This might sound transphobic, but it's not sad that he did it the first time, it's to be expected. Those of a more enlightened generation probably won't feel and react that way, but what do you expect from people back then? I know, saying it was a different time isn't an excuse usually, but we REALLY didn't know better back then.
@@MrGamelover23 eh, some people did
Serious question: if Rin was introduced by sitting on the MC's face....why was the reveal of their gender surprising?
I guess Rin was wearing underwear. That seems like a logical thing to wear.
Rin must tuck REALLY well
@@mellemadswoestenburg1296
What are _your_ undies made of? Steel?
.....huh. That IS a good question....
It is always a glorious day when this channel uploads
@u know me let's be honest, this is an obvious scam
@@adamdavis1737 Let's be honest, RUclips won't do jack shit to fix this bot plague
Lets be honest funny lesbian goes hard
@@DanT12204 that's too honest
Yes
This felt like a mini 'For Beginners'. I liked it a lot! Plus this channel is still one of the few that has some great humor!
It’s like 50mins though bruh
@@mr_smiles4213 Yeah, "mini"
very mini
Funny enough, Rin was my favoured love interest BECAUSE of how mushy-gushy their chemistry is. It just makes me feel at ease with how wholesome it is compared to the stress that comes with interacting with the other two. Catherine being possessive and violent and Katherine being low-key a Karen although Full Body's exploration of her definitely made me like her a lot more than the original.
I never saw Katherine as a Karen. Just a girlfriend who wanted her boyfriend to stop being a loser haha
I'm obviously biased because I basically only bought that game after hearing it had a gay femboy character, but yeah same here, I loved their dynamic so much. It was so wholesome.
@@needlefoxx Now im going buy it too for Rin route as a man of culture i simply cannot ignore this.
@@Dzexel Based. Enjoy the cute femboy.
Katharen, if you will.
I always believed Vincent hit it off with Rin so well because Vincent starts neutral and which is where you need to be for Rin's route. Also they should have just made Rin an Angel.
no
Yeah the whole "alien" thing was super weird. Having an angel to counter Catherine being a demon, makes much more sense than an alien...
It's evangelion rules, angel and alien are synonyms
Rin's collar even has wings on them
I always felt like Katherine was kinda done dirty by the older version of the game. In this game you actually *see* why these two might have ended up together and why it's actually sad that their relationship is stuck in a plateau. It's not Katherine "being a bitch," it's moreso Vincent being indecisive but too scared to have a serious talk with his girlfriend about their future together. It's something that I think is actually pretty big, because the jump from "going steady" to "living the rest of your life with this person" is rightfully scary. So showing the player why you might want that is something the game sorely needed.
I really wish Rin had been revealed to be an angel rather than an alien. I feel like they would’ve been taken more seriously and it would’ve felt more in tune with the feel of the game imo (since devils are in the game it wouldn’t have been crazy to have angels). And it would’ve gone further to show that there is nothing wrong with being gay. Rin being an alien feels like the game is saying that being gay is “alien” or strange. Again, just my opinion
Yeah an angel would have made much more sense considering that Catherine already had religious mythology in it and not... aliens
Wouldn't Katherine be the angel though? At least I think that's what they were trying originally but rin is a good addition to the game for sure.
Rin is gross
@@barrymckockinner9292 Rin is hot to me 😈
I mean, given the context of other Atlus works, the difference between angel and alien is pretty much entirely semantic
Fun fact: Katherine's design was actually a rejected Sae Niijima concept
Personal 5 dlc with Makoto dressed as Katherine 👀
That's not surprising
I have a long standing theory that the entire game only exists because of Nocturne's Puzzle Boy
That makes WAY too much sense.
Looking at Erica's design, she really is just Makoto Nijima if she worked at Wendy's.
makes me wonder will P6 borrow more of Catherine's hair styles. Would be cool to see someone with Katherine's hair with how utterly majestic it looks
Probably more truth in that than you realize. OG Catherine was a graphical engine test for what eventually became P5, and a lot of the character visual designs for P5 and Catherine were built from the same initial concept sheets (Katherine ➡️ Sae, Vincent ➡️ Joker, Catherine ➡️ Ann, Orlando ➡️ Ryuji, etc.)
I bet a bit of Erica bled into Mokoto’s design somewhere when her and Hifumi’s designs diverged.
Ronald McTrans over here.
@@sodathejunker you just blew the one brain cell I have out of my god damn skull. You’re fucking right! I didn’t see it until you connected them. Thank you.
18:14 holy shit atlas ACTUALLY took the Game Grumps "Qatherine with a Q" joke and made it canon!
THEY MADE A JOKE ABOUT A THIRD CATHERINE "with a Q" 4 YEARS BEFORE FULL BODY CAME OUT!!!
Yahtzee of Zero Punctuation also made the same joke in his original review.
Yup, Yahtz made the joke first. The very week the original game came out.
Too bad Game Grumps has been terrible since jontron left.
@@XXXXX8 are people still upset abou jontron leaving? It's been 16 years since he left. Move on.
@@lessylessy Yeah, because Game Grumps was awesome until jon left. I'm not gonna get over that. Also your math is off
I can’t get over how much Erica just looks like Makoto with scarlet hair
Omg yes!!
My eyes popping out of my head seeing this video show up in my sub box. 😂
Hey, Best girl 1# and Best girl 2# are in each others comment section, nice mini crossover as a fan of you both.
Saw you at 41:31 💜
I kinda liked how the Rin reveal and Vincent's immediate reaction was done. I prefer it when characters in stories are flawed people, and don't immediately give the perfect response to a situation. People in life fuck up sometimes, and if they're good people, they work to rectify their mistakes. That's what makes good storytelling, in my opinion.
I can understand that perspective, but it's such a trope in animated Japanese media that for anyone who's seen it already a bunch of times the potential nuances and intention are kinda lost, such is the trouble with cliches.
Plus he has a long time friend who's a trans woman, so his reaction makes less sense in that context since shouldn't he be a little less completely flabbergasted by this kind of thing and also maybe not ask "are you a guy?" first thing in response to learning someone is AMAB when they present completely feminine?
@@eoincampbell1584 I feel like just because someone is friends with someone doesn't mean they are 100% understanding of all of their decisions in life. After all, they have no problem discussing sex and other things with the other guys in their friend group (ie toby, Orlando, Johnny,) but the moment erica comes up they act very awkward about her sex life and her relationship with toby. They have no problem talking about Vincent's sex life with Katherine and she was a part of the friend group as well, so there's a clear distinction there. Erica is a part of their friend group but that doesn't mean Vincent is as close or supportive as you'd think.
Edit: also, it's shown that Vincent is clearly ignorant in a lot of things, and erica clearly went the full 9-yards and got complete sex change surgery. If that's Vincent's only exposure to someone like that, it does make sense that he wouldn't understand that a person doesn't need to fully get a surgery to transition, as there are a lot of real life people with that mindset. (After all crossdressing is a thing as well, no need to change gender for that so he could assume rin just crossdresses) Either way, he's an idiot, that's been established.
@@eoincampbell1584 he may know Erica but he isn't attracted to her
Personally I would prefer It like Vincent's having a nervous breakdown
@@eoincampbell1584 respectfully i disagree with everything you just said
40:00 I thought I should let you know that right as you were making the speech here, my fiance went 'ok kingdom hearts' sarcastically. We both had a good laugh when you played the audio
I like how for someone that doesn’t really date the one moral I can take from this game is “get a job, take a shower”. Truly the pinnacle of wisdom.
Thank you for bringing up how discrimination is just expressed differently in Japan rather than nonexistent. The "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality is so pervasive over there when combined with how draconian some aspects of their political parties can be (we're not any better).
Great coverage on a game I've always felt iffy about though!
I loved Catherine's new true ending, it was quite surprising to see her go from "the whole kid thing would have to be off the table" in the original true ending to "time traveling to your past so we can have a family" in the new true end.
Some even imply at the end credits that one of children looks a awful lot like Joker from Persona 5… might explain a few things about him
@@jackthorton10 I heard that theory and I love it. It would be sad to think that Catherine and Vincent would just send their son away when he had assault charges though...
@@LunetteFox and he became an actual criminal once he was sent away😭
@@jackthorton10 That would... sort of make sense. But its probably same engine stuff, and the game being P5s test playground
@@jackthorton10 It's not explicitly stated, but it's implied due to the non japanese naming of the characters and their overall designs that Catherine takes place in the US, and not Japan, where almost every other Megaten game takes place in.
As someone who's a huge bayonetta fan, with that being my 1st AAA gaming experience back in the 2010's, Catherine's whole romance, murder & jazz vibe always gelled with me thanks to that
Holy cow, the bun mother has blessed us on this lords Tuesday.
Let us give thanks, my brother in buns
We were blessed alright. Nothing for 6 months then she drops an hour-long preach session about lgbt representation in video games. talk about a downhill trajectory.
@@realityveil6151 I’m sure you’re real fun at parties, damn.
@@aresdefer It's covid times, parties are over.
25:00 "Sometimes the characters feel rather reductive. They're more of an archetype than a person, that aren't exactly the most likeable bunch." Sounds like Atlus characters, alright. Confirms my placement of this in the pantheon of SMT spinoffs.
I’m also reminded that the aliens are also supposed to be angels, so they add that to them amongst things. Since the OG really weird handling of LGBT and angelic beings can be traced back to Satan in Devilman and those who draw inspiration from him like Kaworu Nagisa and the like.
That said the fact that Angels = Aliens makes Demons/Gods scared shitless in their presence funnier.
Something that bothers me about Rin is how it _feels_ as if they’re the “obviously correct” choice. Both Catherine and Katherine are… messy, it seems like. Neither option feels like the “right” choice, when you look at them both. And that’s what makes them interesting, I think, because relationships _aren’t_ perfect. So Rin just kind of feels… out of place, to a degree.
I thought they were gonna make the ostensibly female Rin "the younger woman" and have their relationship go really smooth at first. Ya know, he gets to act like an older brother and the one she looks up to. Then he was going to realize that even through it was an easy time, she wasn't at the same point of her life as he was. Maybe kind of a weird sex moment where he couldn't go through with it because they had such a good relationship with him as a mentor/advice giver. Having Rin's obstacle be "he's a male" is kind of weird. I don't think most gay or bi people see that as an "obstacle" a partner brings to the table.
But whatever. I'm not gay or bi myself, so I just saw Rin as a cool character for my Vincent to interact with. It definitely doesn't hurt the game, but it went from a study of "the things middle aged men have issues with in relationships" to that plus "what if I'm also bi?"
@@AuspexAO Hey, "what if I'm also bi" is something some of us middle-aged folks struggle with too, so to me, that was very on point, lol 😂
Finally Buns made a video on this classic
Finally buns made a video
i felt like the whole mini freak out from Vin about Rin was well done. im in the LGBT+ community myself. he was under the impression Rin was something he wasn't. a female. And Vincent isn't exactly a good person. it was a shock for the dude. in a vacuum is it a good portrayal of the LGBT community? not really. but in the context of the story it makes a lot of sense. and the fact that you can choose to move past it and romance him is a good thing. baby steps.
I mean, having your belief of something or someone suddenly proven wrong is a shock no matter the circumstances. Disgust and withdrawal in that type of situation is a natural human reaction because your brain has to reevaluate what it thought it knew about the world and then reinterpret what your new opinions of a situation should be.
Some people process that faster than others. Ultimately, the final mentally-processed acceptance should say a lot more about Vincent's character arc than any initial confusion activating his fight or flight response, since that was a more considered and voluntary choice.
I've never played the game, so there is that, and I could be missing stuff not mentioned in this video, but that's my feeling in a similar situation at least
Seriously though, with how the two of them met, how did he not notice?
@@sonofsalt4079 literally not a single gay person in the comments has said anything like that. Many have even said that it’s a realistic reaction. Your strawman in showing.
Shitty dude, shitty reaction... But fuck at lest he apologized after cuz he knew what he did was wrong and why.... I didn't get that apology more then I did get one
@@montanarose4622 but it IS true that people will call you a piece of shit for not wanting to date a trans person. Just because you don't see it here, doesn't mean it's not something that exists
Purple would be a nice color motif for Persona 6. It would imply a mix of styles with 4 and 5, Blue and Red. I want it now.
Purple would be nice, my favorite color. However, 4 was yellow; 3 was the one with blue
Wasn't the first persona game technically already purple though? That seems to be the color associated with it at least
It will be green, and you will enjoy it
They've already got the purple persona game, it will be green and there is nothing we can do about it
In retrospect i feel like there's a more sympathetic viewpoint to hold Vincent to - he only started cheating with Catherine when he... got so drunk that she took advantage of his inability to make an informed decision for the express purpose of ruining his life.
In other words, she raped him.
The story obviously doesn't see it this way because female on male rape is barely acknowledged to exist anywhere, but it does put his sheer... Vincent-ness in another light, if you're willing to squint a little.
Perfect KT cameos in this one. Nice to see you back on the grind, Buns! This has been a long time coming, and watching your progress on Twitter about editing this video was super insightful. Thanks for all your hard work and effort.
As a recently out bisexual man, I personally felt a lot of conflicting feelings when discovering my sexuality. There was a lot of self-doubt at the beginning. I can see Vincent's reaction to Rin as more of a questioning of his sexuality.
Ace male here. Been out for a few years now, and I can definitely agree with you there. It was definitely a bit of a shock when my Aceness clicked for me. Especially because I'm still heteromantic (or Gynoromantic, since I might be gender fluid. Still figuring out that side of me).
By the way, congrats on being out and open about who you are. You are awesome, valid, and absolutely deserve to feel good about yourself.
Congratulations fellow bi. I felt that Vincent's reaction was somewhat real. The fear and realization makes sense but at least he did apologize
Having met two or three guys who has similar reactions to a reveal like that one, I agree that it was a realistic reaction. That it does not align with the *expected* reaction is an entirely different matter.
Good job on being out and (hopefully) having support!
I think the issue is more the fact that his reaction mirrors the very frequently violent response made against trans people irl when their partner finds out. Many assaults and outright murders have been justified by this "gay panic" defense. I would say that Vincent's reaction is a realistic, if mild, depiction of that scenario. But maybe Super BB felt that such an awful trend doesn't need to be echoed in media.
Those secret endings are funny, Katherine becomes the temptress that is playing and taunting Vincent, pretending to be with a new man to torment him even though she misses him, while the crazy bitch Catherine gives him the stable life with a family that he was scared of.
It's like a zen riddle how the c/katherines weren't being true to themselves and were just playing a role, by switching it up they became happy.
Look, whether you like it or not - Vincent's reaction to "the revewal" is 100% genuine. That is ABSOLUTELY the normal reaction from a straight man who finds out he's been lied to in that way. The difference is that he comes to grips with the news, apologizes, and resumes the relationship.
Real life doesn't typically go that way.
And I know I'm giong to get hate for this but nor should it. That's the sort of thing you need to be up-front about.
Rin never lied though? Is there a scene where he said he was a girl?
@@basicsimp8798 It's a concept called "lying by omission."
From Vincent's perspective, there was never any reason to doubt that Rin was female. This is one of those innate presumptions we make when we meet someone (unless there's gender ambiguity in how they present). So by NOT coming out about it up front, Vincent is lead to believe his lying eyes and ears. When the truth is then reviewed, it's absolutely a shock.
Japan is not all roses and sunshines. Suicide rates are super high because of the pressure on men to stay at work despite not getting paid nor ever getting sleep. Whatever you do if someone is sleeping on the train and you can tell its a business man LEAVE HIM ALONE AND LET HIM SLEEP.
Tons of problems with the USA but tons also with Japan too and all other countries. Thank god we aren't North Korea though or China.
I always found Vincent losing his mind over the Rin reveal to be weird. I could *maybe* buy it if it actually was the first time meeting someone like Rin, but Erica is one of his closest friends, it's not like this is out of the realm of possibility for him.
when you put it in that context Vincent reaction is a bit more unforgivable
Yeah once I found out Erica was trans, that made Vincent's reaction seem that much more weird and out of the norm.
@@sv32099 Also hypocritical seeing what he was doing with Toby (Not telling him about Erica when he was crushing on her! Yeah Erica and the guys are also bad on this! And I can get Erica being not for telling him out of fear of his reaction! But stringing him along did bite her in the ass as Dumuzi that hypocrite put her in the dream curse as a sheep in response to leading Toby on like that! It is leading when she flirts with him, but hasn't told him or let him know the truth! The guys likely never said anything out of respect for her, but that respect is SHE has to tell him, but they could have said something)
Feels like the writers FORGOT when they put that in, realized their mistake, but doubled down and tried to write around it and it was VERY noticeable! Both from newcomers who by this point caught on to Erica's Trans status & Vincent's awareness of it and Veterans like myself who already knew and had JAWS WIDE OPEN when that scene came up and how out of character Vin was! Though I try to say the stress of everything up to that point might have had an effect! I say it STORY wise, in real life I just call it bad writing
@@paulman34340 yeah explaining it in universe can become and excercise in futility
This is not a comparable situation at all?
Vincent is long time friends with Erica, they know and trust each other, and are clearly ok with what they have
Rin on the other hand, shows up literally out of nowhere, and at a really unfortunate and stressing time for Vincent
They have a calming effect on him and soon become a third love interest, and during this whole time He is completely 100% sure Rin is just another girl, and then one day as they get to trust each other, Rin, who at no point gives any warning or indication of being trans or anything, just randomly decides to flash him?
Now you could argue Rin *is* trans or nonbinary or just a regular male that likes to crossdress, but the point is, it doesn't matter, because it would still make Vincent question himself and wonder why the hell they didn't mention before. Imagine, you are a woman and you like guys, not a single doubt about that. Then you are dating a guy and out of nowhere turns out that guy was actually a cis girl all along and they never said anything or even hinted at it. I would be pissed.
And even then it doesn't last long, it's clearly a reaction mostly out of shock and betrayal, and he soon realizes he was too harsh on Rin anyway. I feel like people really fail to see the context properly/put themselves in Vincent's shoes when it comes to this moment. To me it just feels realistic.
Bun's comedic timing always kills me. The whole flowers bit was gold.
Congrats on the fantastic new video, Buns! Also: *_CAMP ROCK._*
That part made me laugh XD
"Your life won't change,"
Catherine, the opposite of Persona 5
Oh my gosh, I died laughing at the "Wowzers alert!!!" 7:40 in. 😆
I like that Rin is very clearly presented as just a crossdressing male, while removing the deadnaming from Erica.
Some people keep trying to argue that Rin is trans, but the game specifically points out that the only people using female pronouns are those that don't know the secret.
I just watched another YT video uploaded to day, tl;dr toxic people attacking Trans for not being femboys and the other toxic side attacking femboys for not being trans. Like seriously, gender is a personal choice, leave em alone and stop deciding the gender of other people.
@@Johnny_Shields If I could frame this comment I would
Ill leave em alone, respect the thinking and dont think less of them but sorry i dont buy the gender is a personal choice thing.
@@Greatsharkbite If you wanna be very technical, yeah you don't really get to choose whether you have dysphoria, but I suspect that's not what you meant.
@@JohnathanJWells I mean you can, it'll just take a bit of work is all
Me: finishes Catherine 2 days ago
Buns: Blesses us with Catherine content
Who says destiny isn't real?
BRO SAME HERE
I finished Catherine 2 days ago and I’m going for the plat right now, it’s really funny timing
Destiny 2 players
11:18 It wasn't just infidelity, to the best of my knowledge the men are 'summoned' for basically 'wasting women's time'. Basically this demon/god is upset that these guys are not 'going forth and multiplying' with their women and instead keeping them from continuing the human race. (hence why Johnny was chosen as he was basically just leading his girlfriend on when he didn't want to commit). Which considering our overpopulation issue in some areas is a bit questionable.
I mean its a backwards rural sheep god, think of them like a religious yokel with really dumb views about sexuality
Japan has a population growth issue (mostly due to their unrealistic immigration policies but regardless). It makes sense that Japanese writers would feel differently about this as their country is looking at serious deficits for their society in the future.
Population growth levels out naturally but a society that shrinks too fast won’t be able to support their elderly, maintain a strong economy, or integrate immigrants slowly enough to maintain certain desirable cultural norms.
Actually makes a lot more sense considering this is a Japanese game. Where they reproduce as quickly as pandas, ironically enough.
Japan has the opposite issue of a lowering population. many japanese ppl are increasingly not interested in sex and relationships with other people, in part to their immigration policies, gender related tensions, and puritan, conservative general culture. the work culture also doesn’t exactly leave many people time for sex, so it’s a culmination of many things
@@vysharra The West has low birthrates despite having very lax immigration laws. Opening immigration in Japan wouldn't boost the native Japanese population only replace it.
It's been a while for me also, just wanted to say: so happy for your relationship!
And as always detailed and funny discussion of the game, always a treat to see your videos. :)
29:56 Vincent can hear precisely 0 of this over the helicopter
It would have made more sense for Rin to have been an angel or something cause that alien shit threw me for a loop. Also you should check out 13 Sentinels its more of Vanillaware's baby but Atlus is the publisher and I think it had pretty good LGBT+ rep in it.
@@Touma_S there is still same sex attraction between two characters in the original. the localization only changed one line that implies that a certain character is also non-binary.
Rin is an angel tho
It's just that angels in the Catherine universe are aliens
@@JohnathanJWells yea ik but without the alien stuff I think it would have just made more sense for them to be what we traditionally think of with angels, like how Catherine is a bona fide demon.
Welcome to atlus we put weird shit in our games because no one can stop us from doing so
True. Angels are meant to be androgynous as far as I know? It would have made more sense with Catherine being a demon too!
I just... I can't believe Ross and Barry's joke from Game Grmps about a 3rd Catherine being spelled with a "Q" came true.
When we needed her the most…she returned
Atlus is like the boomer parent that tries to understand your non-binary partner by saying "Ah yes, he/she's a they"
there is no such thing as "non-binary"
@@Slavic_Snakedid someone in your family “fight” in Vietnam and told you it’s okay to mean to people who are different than you 😒
@shani2754 so a bunch of delusional people who believe in fairy tales had "non binary" people, and this somehow is an argument to win against me? lmao if that's all you got that proves me even more right.
@@uria3679 you have anime p0rn as a profile pic... I cannot take you seriously
@@uria3679fight in Vietnam? Not disagree ING but from where the f did that come from something to share?
I really liked this video because I don't play most games and I liked the jokes you made, also I really love that this got recommended for me because I truly felt that my routine in my life was what made me kinda miserable lately and hey I started changing that routine by seeing a video that I wouldn't normally see
Very nice video hope RUclips keeps me notified
While the LGBT+ representation in ATLUS games is very far away from perfect, I do really appreciate that it seems like ATLUS is genuinely trying to learn how to do better.
Although they will never be able to repent for the original sin of not letting us smooch Yosuke or Yusuke.
The map ones ?
Jun though
Their original sins were Kanji, actually.
Well that's what mods are for thanks to them finally putting P4G on the PC
@@Chillgamesh They literally erased that timeline
I really liked Rin. I was actually so surprised about how into his route I got. I feel like the overwhelmingly sweet and loving chemistry between him and Vincent is kinda canon for me.
@Grima the Fell Dragon I would. It's a good game if you can get into it. I loved the original and I was personally of Catherine with a C's team. She's my second favorite and while I'll never support cheating, theres something very magnitizing about her.
*her
@@redmage5251 him. Rin is a crossdresser, not trans.
@@thedoodlehudson just because atlus is transphobic doesn't let you be
@@redmage5251 There’s a trans character; Erica, who everyone refers to as a female and therefore isn’t a transphobic portrayal. Rin is a male crossdresser, who refers to himself as a male, and only characters who DON’T know refer to as a female. It’s a trope; he’s an “otokonoko”.
Welcome back Super Butter Twinky 🥰 you've been missed, your unique style is always a breath of fresh air in these weird and crazy times
I’m just so damn happy you’re putting videos out again. Your humor and delivery are god tier.
47:16 idk why but I always laugh at this part where all 3 persona themes play at once 😂😂
At best, Atlus get's a "You kind of tried, i think..."
This video had me wheezing. Buns makes some of the best content out there
I can never stress how much I love this game and what kind of personal impact it's made on my perception of love and what it means to be in a relationship when I was a teenager seeing this for the first time. And it eggs at me how nobody else in my life can see it the way I do. They'd see the scantily clad woman on the cover and excuse the whole game thinking I'm only into the game for the look of it all when Catherine herself is far from one of the top reasons I love this game like I do. It's a comfort game for me too and it warms my soul every time I reminisce about it.
This was also the first time I was ever introduced proper to a trans character in media and having learned it in a twist via the True Katherine ending was a nice surprise. Even looking back on it now, I personally feel like Erica was handled marginally well, even if some of that quality was wasted on jokes at Toby's expense.
Full Body felt like a barb-wired fence to hop through when seeing the way people talked about it/Rin (with the twist of his identity on full display). As someone who has come to identify as demipan, Full Body helped me compartmentalize a few distinct perspectives about how relationships can work through the KCQatherines and I'm all the more grateful for the experience, even if Full Body isn't my preferred version (The pacing Really feels tilted when you're going for a specific girl while the game is trying to have it both ways; made it really disorienting playing the Rin route on my very first playthrough).
Nevertheless, this game is so important to me and I am glad it was my first Atlus game before I ever even heard of Persona.
If I ever end up having a daughter, I am going to name her Katherine.
I’m glad they portrayed Erika as a woman, offensive alternate endings aside she’s still portrayed as a beautiful woman, where as Rin is literally a trans-flag colored twink, in their human form at least. I appreciate the fair criticism you give while appreciating the art itself
One will be my alien bride. You wanted my curse. Have it, queen.
Personally, I always thought the added twist that Rin was also originally an alien who turned into a human to be really REALLY weird and left a bad taste in my mouth.
Like…wasn’t this game originally about angels and demons, not aliens? Why not an Angel since Catherine was a Succubus?
Maybe it’s just me, but the addition of those little pink aliens kind of annoyed me.
It's an evangelion thing
I agree. The alien thing made no sense. Would've loved to see Rin and Catherine play off of each other.
I woke up sick after vomiting all night just to found Buns uploaded a new video
I'm not sure if I'm happy about spending the day in bed watching it in peace or just happy of Buns doing this kind of content again
No one asked
I got really excited for this video, even though I know nothing of this game. Tbh when I'm feeling down I often watch one of your videos (usually botw, kh or ffxv for beginners) and they never fail to make me laugh! It's always a good day with a Buns video :')
You should play Atlus games!
I really hate how in this version, the narrator keeps pestering you to Undo when you're in trouble on Normal difficulty no less, outside the tutorial.
I fucking lost it at "It's so smooth in here, I'm sliding all over the place. WEEEEE!"
Nice to have two Bun videos come out this year as oppose to just one .
If you want to avoid spoilers, they start around 12:00
Thank you 👍
aw man thanks dude i was trying to avoid story spoilers for this porn game from 3 years ago by watching an overview of the story
@@gremlinman9724 1) It's not a porn game. Heavy sexual themes? Absolutely. Porn? No. 2) Yea it came out 3 years ago, and even longer for the og one, but not everyone has played it soooo...
@@gremlinman9724 If this was a porn game, this would have gotten an Adult Only rating and would not have been sold in stores or digitally on consoles.
THE BUNS IS BACK!!
Edit: I see you got a certain someone to help with voice lines in this video
Before this video i was thinking about how much I'm looking forward to death but now I'm pleasantly distracted.
26:13 as a fellow homosexual: I'm in love with you
36:41
Well technically this is actually possible as they exist in the same universe, heck you can meet Vincent in P3P.
They aren't, the Vincent cameo in P3P is not canon.
@@cygni8089 🤷 they can say it's not canon, but we meet Vincent at the club in p3p. The rest is what it is regardless of what's said outside the text.
Buns uploads a video: "Watch dis."
All of us: Comedy and quality editing - "Wooooo!"
"a very girlgas, gatelight, bosskeep workin lady" oh no Tyler's imploding
Also this is my favorite video from you ever. I could be wrong but I think I'm right
I wish there was endings with the guys you help save from dying in the nightmares as well, as I was kinda invested in helping out and talking to everyone during my only rin route
I do appreciate that Catherine has levels where you practice edging ;)
The way I just dropped everything to come and watch this video! Welcome back Buns!
I agree with 100% of your video. This is exactly how I feel on the game. Love the video, thanks for making it
I am honestly only one gay person, and like I know that there are real femboys that exist who identify as men but present more or less as women. THAT SAID the way it's presented and the fact it's such a trope in Japanese media just makes the whole "representation" of Rin feel like a cop out.
Typical. They do one thing but your group just wants more and more.
@@omensoffate cry about it, atlus just wants to have it's cake and eat it too.
@@omensoffate 'they do one thing'. they could have done the one thing better if they gave a shit
@@omensoffate womp womp
It's the framing of it imo, they make it sound like a gag or something to awkwardly laugh about.
It took me till now to realize that full body starts off with Vincent getting tea-bagged.
I've always BEEN Team Katherine. Guess that said a lot about me even before I figured things out myself.
Catherine is one of my favorite games, and weirdly enough my first name is Rin. I was quite surprised at full body adding Rin! I was worried it'd ruin the flow of my favorite game but I really like my namesake as a character, fits well.
I can safely say that “Catherine” isn’t my type of game-just watching people play it gives me anxiety-but I love listening to you break down why games do or don’t work for you.
As silly and ridiculous as Catherine OG and Full Body is, I still love it to bits. It walks this bizarre line of mature themes about marriage, love, and figuring out what you want in life -- seemingly being that super rare title aimed towards thirty-something and the older crowd -- and it's also a silly and ridiculous anime game for the otaku crowd. For every grown-up scene that makes you reflect on your own choices, you get Vincent being the world's WORST protagonist and everyone being hyper-reactive. For as much as it earnestly tried to be positive towards LGBTQ and that anybody can be free to love who they want, they still had that ending scene with Toby being gross toward Erica. When it's bad, it's REALLY bad. But when it's good, hoo boy! the game stands out from dang near anything. It's such a weird, thoughtful, trashy, guilty pleasure of a game and I will not stop defending it.
One more thing you might not have known, Buns! Rin reveals toward the end that his real name was never "Qatherine", but he just blurted out the first name he remembered after he lost his memory because he was told to watch out for Catherine the Succubus. His real name is the alien mumbo jumbo "@+*+?¥$", but when you reverse the audio, what is his real name?...
*Catherine Full Body*
"Haai Erica~"
How I feel too.Also the way you deliver lines are hilarious lol.
i have a hard time even watching this video because this game pisses me off so much, can someone tell me wether op discusses them detransitioning erica for no reason in the “best” ending
Yes, it's not talked about much just to say that it's fucked
I first played FullBody last year on Switch and got so hooked on the game. I loved it, the gameplay was so addicting. Also, I really liked Rin and the themes of their route. I played the game twice to get both Katherine's and Rin's endings.
Each time KT's voice appears, I just snort with laughter XD Super in-character, and yet always unexpected!
You know we hardly hear you talk about lgbt+ things in games like these and honestly I really enjoy it, your passion is amazing buns.
frickin sweet that she got the persona 6 color theme right which was green nice prediction yo!
The real plot twist was learning this is a SMT spin off
The goddamn editing/commentary in this video is FLOORING ME, I havent laughed this much in a little while lmaoooo
Love this weird ass game and your content, bless
Also did y'all know there was a Catherine competitive gaming community? Niche but so fascinating to watch, there's several around youtube I think
Rollback for catherine Atlus please
I'm all for Persona 6, considering Waluigi is practically his own gender, being, God, Demon, abomination, _and_ thing (nondiscriminatory) all packaged up into one perfect blight (and gift!) upon humanity.
Can't wait to start dating him and try to fathom what he even IS. I expect my grey matter to melt during the social link.
I will fight whoever doesnt appreciate the work you put out here for FREE for us to enjoy. Take all the time you need to put make videos: I’m always happy to rewatch old content while waiting
CONGRATS ON YOUR MARRIAGE!!! Also I'm glad you went dark for a while instead of the algorithm denying me your art.
didn't realize how much i missed your content. may go back and re-watch your older stuff. i cant count how many times i laughed out loud during this video, editing is god tier as usual.