I’ve been using headphones wrong this ENTIRE TIME
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- Опубликовано: 1 июл 2024
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Hello, I'm Nicholas Di Lorenzo, Studio Owner, Mixing and Mastering engineer at Panorama Studios.
I'm an Italian-Australian born and raised in Melbourne. I've been a creative professional for 10 years managing some pretty awesome projects for artists, labels and producers all around the globe.
What motivates and drives me?
My family,
Good food,
Great coffee.
You can find me on many platforms:
Instagram: / panorama_mastering
Facebook: / panoramamastering
Twitter: / panoramamasters
Kit: kit.co/Panorama_Mastering
I got caught slacking on my edit here.
EQ in bypass on export.
Sincerely sorry for this. It's tearing me up!
It's alright sir, you owe us nada. Who needs EQ edits when valuable info is shared for free !
I told you.. L is for left and R is for right!
What's this in reference to?
@@panorama_mastering the video title! It’s a joke. You said “I’ve been using headphones wrong this entire time.” So I was being silly and pretending that you had them on backwards or something. Was it that bad? 🤣
@@davidasher22 haha... I get it now. Sorry I'm a bit slow at these hours of the morning.
@@davidasher22 I was gonna make a diferant, but similarly corny joke when I read the title, but then I saw your joke and couldn't top it. 🤣
@@DaftyBoi412 thank you! I thought it was pretty good. But it seems to have gone right over Nicks head!? 🧠😂
I bought a dangerous Dbox and the headphone outs on it completely blew me the hell away. it's like my headphones were finally telling me the truth, my third eye opened
I remeber when it happened to me .... I had no idea headphones could sound so good. I was actually using a decent amp, but old dogged out hifi cans. When I bought a properly matched set of studio headphones for the amp I had, ones I'd reaserched the heck out of and had been recomended to me by several diferant people who knew a heck of a lot more than I did (some of the best headphones about at the time imho) ... it blew me away when I first listend to them ... I was like holy sh1t. xD
The thing I learned early on in electronics is this:
When you have an output being plugged into an input, you have to have a MINIMUM of 1:10 ratio between the output impedance and the input impedance. i.e. If my audio interface output impedance is 150 ohms balanced, then the input impedance of my speakeres should be 1.5kohm balanced impedance *absolute minimum.* Of course, most studio monitors are 20kohm input impedance which is another order of magnitude, so it's an even better match.
When it comes to headphones, having a dedicated headphone preamp designed to have an extremely low impedance output will give you a better sound. The headphones won't be "pulling" at the output, capacitively or inductively, which would alter the frequency response and also prevent the drivers from being able to be driven to their proper position vs the output waveform (introducing distortion).
Little story. When I was designing my passive volume control, I designed it with 1.9k constant input impedance in mind, with relative output impedance depending on where the volume is set. So my audio interface is 150ohm --> passive volume control 1.9kohm --> studio monitors 20kohm. This gave the most linear results due to the rough 1:10 ratio rule. If I chose a lower impedance, it would "pull" on the audio interface outputs. If I chose a higher impedance, it would become more of a voltage divider with the studio monitors, and the volume control would be inaccurate.
Electronics can get complex, but there are some fundamentals that are so useful to know - impedance being one of them. Oh, and it works for microphones, too. You know when someone says _"This mic has 600ohm output impedance"_ and they set the input impedance of their preamp to 600 ohms... *Big no!* Impedance matching like that is only for the best power transfer, not the best for audio going from one device to another. Something to take into consideration (1:10 rule again!)
Thanks for the great insight!
amazing insight, thank you!
Was it dx7 pro+ you got? There is also the dx7 pro, I use the dx7 pro+ but the back of yours looks like the pro+. Definitely use it for the neumanns as well, it's the full package, speakers and headphones.
And make sure you use the remote as well! Ed was doing my box in for like a year cause he was like yeah it's somewhere and guess what.. He found it and.. "awww mate this remote is awesome!" 🙈🤣
With the remote you can switch between all digital inputs (USB, optical, AES, coax, Bluetooth) and speaker outputs (XLR, RCA, XLR+RCA)
Theres a button to switch from headphones to speakers, vice versa and even an option to output both at the same time. What's really handy is that it stores the level for phones and speakers independently so when you switch you don't need to adjust level.
You can switch between 7 different anti aliasing filters (I reccomend the default)
I also reccomend setting it as the master clock as well due to its near immeasurable jitter (if it's connected in an interface chain). I've got dx7 pro+ & sp8 (in live room) connected to evo 16 via it's 2 adat ports.
So with the remote I can switch to adat input when I'm in the daw, switch to USB outside the daw and switch between whatever output i want.
AND the Bluetooth is super high quality. This is really handy if I'm mixing in the daw with the evo 16 but I quickly want to switch to something in Spotify or apple music from my phone, or you could play from your desktop and switch to USB.
And it automatically detects the sample rate when switching to whatever input.
So in my rig I've normally got 2 headphones (4 pin xlr & TRS) and 2 pairs of speakers connected and I just switch between what I need.
As you can see, I'm extremely attached to my dx7 pro+ 🤣
Thanks Paul - I watched your video about the Topping. I think I'm getting one soon.
Yeap; it's a dx7 pro+!
I ordered the topping l30 ii, will this suffice for just headphones? It only has rca jacks.
Are there any major bennifits to the dx7 pro+ other than use with speakers?
@@dfhm-pq2cf dx7 pro+ is a dac amp, l30ii is just an amp so it is bottle necked by whatever dac signal it is amplifying. Dx7 pro+ deals with everything so the output signal is crystal clear
You can also have 3 headphones connected at the same time with dx7 pro+
@@PaulThird thanks for the information, how does it handle monitors? I have only seen reviews of it for use with headphones?
Also when the dx7 switches from speakers to headphones does it auto mute whichever one is not being used?
1000 Megawatts for a headphone amp seems to be a bit overkill 😉😅
Nice video btw.!
damn... you know what's funny, I caught myself saying megawatts a few times while recording this video and re-took those parts... you'd imagine I'd use the correct take ;)... nope megawatts it is! Let's fry these headphones!
Are you just using the Topping as a headphone amp or are you actually running
Your speakers off of it? I was planning on getting one but im not totally positive how the speaker outs work. Will it replace my monitor controller? I have optical running out of my interface into an old Presonus monitor station. I was hoping I could get rid of that and use the topping as my monitor controller. Would that works. ?
Headphone amp only at the moment :)
Yes it would work if it's the dx7 pro+!
I'm so happy that i am seeing this video and able to hear this info at age of 21. Question: what would you reccomend as best pro headphones for travel (no dac)
Thanks so much Nicholas. I saw Pauls video about the Topping a few days ago and was wondering if it was worth it. I'm using the headphone amp in my Apollo X4 with the Mm-500s, which sounds pretty good to my ear. But was thinking about using the SPDIF out on it and routing it to a Topping. Decisions decisions....
Bought a topping L50 for similar applications. Not quite up to the specs of the dx7 pro but it’s pretty damn good. Main reason I went with it over the others is it has a through for speakers that’s passive on a toggle switch so I can have headphones and amp OR direct out from my interface outs to speakers at a toggle when needed.
I went the same route separate Topping dac (d70 pro) and amp l30ii - useful for mobile use. With the Audeze LCD x it’s made mixing and as mastering reference tool fantastic. We are able to go as good as the big studios now in terms of gear without breaking the bank.
This is the reason I decided to purchase an RME ADI 2 PRO fs. I get the wonderful conversion as well as a powerful amp for my planar magnetics and all of the other features like eq, built in crossover, and etc....
saving for this
I was going to get the Topping until I discovered the SPL Marc One... it's unique as it's a high quality headphone amp (with crossfeed), DAC and ADC as well as a monitor controller!
You really got me considering this method, especially since I’ll be moving soon and my studio will be out of commission.
I currently use a Sony 7506 headphone and a pair of studio monitors for mixing. When I mix solely on headphones, I often catch issues that become apparent when listening through speakers. Conversely, when I mix exclusively on monitors, I notice problems that arise when listening through headphones. By combining both approaches, I've found that I can effectively address these issues. I believe this hybrid approach is particularly beneficial for bedroom producers on a budget. While I may not have a deep understanding of the technical aspects, I've found that this method works well for me and allows me to produce high-quality mixes.
arent they like a billion grams on your neck? Curious if you midrange reaction was due to neumanns being usually slightly mid boosted without room correction
They're heavier on spec, but funnily enough I don't get bothered, they're perfectly comfortable.
Well made headphones can be surprisingly comfy, even some of the larger ones! It's like strapping two leather pillows to your ears. 😂
Sorry for the noob question, but if I have a Focusrite 18i20, do I need a separate DAC, or just a headphone amp? Does not also having a standalone DAC defeat the purpose of getting a better headphone amp because the interface’s DAC is rubbish? And if that’s the case, would I want a DAC that also can drive my monitors as well?
Hit up Paul Third, I think he's got a pretty wild set-up with another interface directly outputing (digitally) to the topping dx7 pro +
Great set-up!
@@panorama_masteringPaul Third is a class guy, great channel!
Online price is @$1100 AUD for the topping dx7- can't see $699 anywhere unless that's U.S?
Those are US prices.
How does your mm500 compare to the hedd ? Did you mix on the mm500 as well?
I have mixed on the mm500's as well!
I think they're two different beasts. If I were producing, being creative and on the road. The MM500's.
In the studio, the HEDD wins hands down as an analytical audio tool!
Yep. I had my AKG Q701s for years.
I bought an SMSL M500 for my monitors and it's also crazy good (the mk3 is even better ) . I suddenly love my headphones....
Also for my monitors and subs it changed the world. Even better when I drive it with spdif out from my RME Raydat card...
this is crazy. i literally have dx7 in my basket for a month ever since i saw Paul Third's vid. i had no idea. I even purchased Topping DX1 for on the go solutions. i also am an AUdeze MM-500 user. i love my headphones but i feel i dont get the most out of them. i will sell apollo solo and get dx7. thank you.
"Great video! I have a question regarding gear for mixing and mastering. Would you recommend the Topping DX7 amp/DAC for this purpose? I'm curious if it might color the sound compared to an amp like the RNHP, which is known for its flatter response. Thanks in advance for your insights!"
Great Video! never really liked using headphones def notice this but didnt know what was actually going on but mm i wonder if this is why a lot of "Tracks" sound the way they do in certain "genres" since its preached that all you need is a "laptop and headphones"
I can definitely notice sometimes when someone's used headphones and not acounted for the cross ear bleed with stereo emulation for cans (only when they have used stereo widening effects useually though). However other than that I don't think it will cause people to take on a specific genera wide sonic signature.
I may be mistaken here, but speaker (or headphones in this case) sensitivity will play a big part in this too. How reactive to the mW's the driver of the headphones are. More mW isn't strictly better in every case ( at least as far as I understand), it's only better when using it to drive a lower sensativity pair of headphones. Just like driving high sensativity speakers from old low power tube amps are a good combo ( and exactly like how more modern lower sensativity speakers match up much better with high output SS power amps of the moden era), it's all about matching them up well that matters the most, and not the pure mW output level (because all that is is power output, like the amp wattage power output and your speakers rated power handling, and it all depends on if the speaker driver can convert it all into distortionless audio or not, providing you meet a decent threashold of what can drive the particular cans in question to begin with). Having too high mW will be the same as having a stupidly over powered amp for the set of speakers you've got, you go past 1 on the dial and your speakers are distorting. It's all about marrying the pair well. OFC once you're above the threashold of being able to drive the low end correctly at a decent level.
Now there may be an overall slight benafit in having much higher mW output and less sensative drivers, or there might be a benafit in having higher sensativity drivers and less mW output power. I'm not really sure, and have a feeling I'll know by the end of the vid, but it's the impeedance (1:10 minimun output:input ratio and 1:50 is even better) and power to sensativity matching that is the most important factor in getting good sound out of your cans, providing you have good cans and a good clean amp and DAC to begin with. You just happen to have a pair that really need some ompf to get them going, I mean they are humongus for headphones - (well I've seen much bigger old broadcasting cans, but they are up there lol), which is ofc great for more effortless low end, especially as they are AMT :P.
EDIT: you covered that they are power hungry near the end, I misunderstood your stance earlier on and thought you were saying more mW is better full stop, but you were specifically talking about for them cans. ;)
Bang on!
which correction plugin do you use and do you have your individual curve loaded?
None, I used these straight out of the box.
As long as you have a good solid room, once you get to a certain teir of speakers/cans, they can already be so close to flat out of the box (+/-3db 20hz-25khz+), and what is not flat is often tuned a certain way that encourages good descision making anyway.
I'd personally probably still run correction because I'm used to it, but it's not by any means a nesesity if your listening device is precise enough and your room is totally dialed. It's way more important with less acurate speakers/cans (and bad rooms, but isn't the ideal fix for a bad room ofc).
Wonder how it compares to the Hilo 2. My Hilo has been my workhorse for many years. Looks like good value. Can't imagine plugging anything straight into a Macbook. Crazy 😂
Hey ! You didn’t tell us what you were thinking about the MM-500 on the topping ?? Also I’d like to know if you can use some virtual outputs in protools with those kind of dac ?
I own a MM 500 too and though I was using it the same way as you did ( straight on the mac ) i’m now on a black lion audio revolution 2x2 and it’s honestly crazy how good the headphone amp is on this 300€ interface !
Cheers
Are you working at the NSA as your side job? How do you keep dropping videos about stuff I'm actively researching/thinking about
you're welcome!
it´s weird to see you from the front... just kidding. Great Video!
Ha! Thanks!
Be careful recommending Topping, all the audiophiles are going to start making up claims about them sounding unnatural due to negative feedback.
That being said....yeah, they sound amazing. And it seems like we're on a similar trajectory, though not exactly the same gear. I've pretty much converted to all-ITB and not even using my speakers. They're very nice, but they don't tell me anything that my IEMs don't. The opposite is not even close to true. I'm 90% sure that wwitching to a sit-stand desk with IEMs is the future. My next room probably won't even have speakers.
How do you connect it to the audio interface?
This is the audio interface when I'm using headphones.
I'll tighten my set-up to include this with my antelope in an agreggate device in the future so I can use all my analog gear and monitors when using it.
Audiophile dacs are nice. I've been running a Schiit Modius with a THX AAA 789 amp for almost 5 years and so far I have not been able to improve on it. Granted, it depends on the DAC, you can absolutely get nonlinear sources, but there was a move that THX kicked off in like 2018 where they suddenly dropped noisefloor and distortion down to like -180 DB in USD $300 products. The audiophile brands looked at how it was done and most of them have a take on the idea now. There are more expensive versions that push the measurements even further, though in my case I have to ask if I'd be better served with newer higher end headphones before buying a $2000 headphone amp.
I'm still interested in trying one of the Schiit Multi-bit dacs at some point, though they start at around the same price as this Topping and don't measure as well - it's a very different architecture philosophically and the people who hear them all seem to love them, but I don't have the confidence to just pick one up and start working through it. If I ever had "eff you" money I'd want to try a Chord Dave, look that up some time.
I really like schiit. I use their amps to power my monitors and one of their multibit dacs in my listening/living room.
Yeah Topping is amazing value for money. I bought the L30ii amp a couple of months ago for my Hifiman planars and was amazed how much better my headphones sounded than the interface i was using (Antelope)
I had Audeze LCD2 (or something?) and the HEDDPhone v1.
I chose the Focal Clear MG Professional over these 2.
Audeze have a really nice vibe, that’s true! Especially for contemporary Pop and urban music.
HEDD v1 were a pain on the head (literally). Ridiculously huge and heavy. And yes the sound was very neutral and almost boring. For mastering yes, but not for mixing or even producing.
The focals have deep deep bass and are very accurate and fast. They do have a certain sound though. You have to like them.
love the shirt
I use a Topping DAC for my headphones, they are great 👍🏾
is the big revolution here really "when you dont impedance mismatch headphones, and properly drive them, they sound better" because lol.
also the DAC is unnecessary, all you need is a headphone amp that meets the requirements. DIYRE sells a kit to build one that can handle complex loads like this for about 15 dollars. the topping option is 100% not needed here
sorry for the interruption , why not use the drop thx 789!
Mm 500 or this?
Try both!! I'm favouring the mm500's for on the road use, and the hedd for in the studio!
@@panorama_mastering Dope!!!!
Now plug that sh&/ into an APOGEE Symphony ...and start crying ; )
It’s pronounced ‘ordeez’ I think
Interesting.
Odyssee
@@paulmistygatz7888 aud like audio, no?
Ignore me haha. I do know I’ll never afford a pair though
I literally can't finish this video can someone tell me the point
I find it hard to watch your videos due to this horrendous sound quality.
Yeah, the lav placement was not good in this instance. Ah well, I'm sure he knows.
its not that bad, relax
@@AVDRE I'm not hating, I'm giving feedback. Same problem on every video
@@miguelmoreira5248 disagree, this video was especially bad. Voice is muddy and rumbly to the point it's sometimes difficult to understand what he's saying. Never this bad on his other videos.
That's on me. Sorry guys.
4 minutes in please get to the point 😩
Can you hear distortion in voice caused by voice assymetry and poor mastering in that track you mention?
pointless.
Voice audio is terrible, so muddy & rumbly all i hear is "MMMMGNNNMGMMMMNMMNMNNN"
LittleLabs Monotor for me. L/R/Mono/Phase etc.