One of the best things about UK races is the distinct feel you get at each race. UTMB produce the same corporate experience every time. I always wanted to do the Arc, won't be looking at it anymore.
True, although there are a number of U.K. races that are part of a ‘chain’ which people do because of the reliability. Ourea, Centurion, Threshold etc, manage to give each race a unique personality while delivering on runners expectations, why would UTMB be any different? The NZ UTMB event is nothing like UTS, but you know certain minimums are standard. Unfortunately, one of those is the price, but none of these bigger events are cheap
I've got to say I'm pretty disappointed about this. I've run the Arc 100 twice. What attracted me to it was the remoteness, almost self sufficient nature of the race, along with the amazing feeling of support from the volunteers and MudCrew team. Yes, the first hour of the Arc is a bit of a queue, but I'm sure as the numbers of runners inevitably increase the race will become a conga line until Lands End… just like UTMB is. I was aiming to go back to UTMB as I DNF'ed the race in 2021. I've been part of the race to collect stones with the aim of going back to UTMB and finishing the job. However I'm getting the feeling that each year it's becoming more and more difficult to get in as the threshold of stones required to get picked out the hat goes up and up. If you don't get in one year what do you… sign up for more UTMB races to get more stones… which in the end is at the detriment to other local ultra races. The UTMB race is spectacular to be a part of, but how many By UTMB races do you need to do to get into it… 2, 4, 6, 10!!? In the end I don't think I can be bothered with it. Growth doesn't alway need to be about money, numbers, media attention, celebrity ultra runners… what about feeling and support to the community and each other. Rant over.
Just completed an LDWA run last weekend in Wales that had loads of check points and it was £35 for 50miles. I was going to register for the Arc after doing the 50 last year and I still will, to support my local race. But I’m sure I’ll do a lot more LDWA events than UTMB’s (meal deals V lobsters).
I travel to the UK to get the low key community feeling I like so much. Was planning to go back and do the Arc again, but not now. Luckily there is a lot "by locals" races still there and I choose to support them before any "by utmb" race.
Hi Loyd, thanks for the update! Not quite sure how i feel about this. The race is already prestigious enough, and although im pleased to see UTMB giving it their stamp of approval, my heart did sink when i saw this title. I hope they respect the event and, more importantly, the local community. This is such a small path along a beautiful section of coast path. Lets hope they dont trash the ecology by allowing too many runners or upset the local villages and communities. Talks of money aside, im not quite sure about this. Not trying to be negative, just genuinely concerned with this one.
They already added a 50km option so no doubt there will be more people. More people equalling more money. At what cost to the local community? Time will tell
Thanks Loyd. I think the Mudcrew would have thought long & hard on the decision. I believe they want the best for the race. Hopefully it is. Really glad the RDs haven’t changed.
I was hoping to race the ARC50 next year, so personally I'm a bit gutted. But, I get the feeling this was just a matter of time. So kudos to the Mudcrew team for building an event that's valuable enough for UTMB to invest. However, I'm under no illusion that the Newhouse family of Advance Publications (Ironman) became billionaires by keeping things "local" and transferring wealth to the community. And to that extent, I think this is a misstep.
"Being able to gain more stones in the UK will save us money" Ha! Don't forget that the lottery is a zero-sum game. The more tickets/stones being sold, the lower the chance a particular ticket gets drawn. So you're going to have to run more UTMB pyramid scheme races for the same chance to get into the main event, if it becomes easier to get stones. Trail/ultra running is tough, and you can only run a few events per year. The real issue, I believe, is whether non-UTMB-events get starved for participants. Because for the individual runner it's pretty tempting to choose the well-marketed event with predictable vibe and the added benefit of a stone in the off chance that they want to attempt UTMB at some point in the future, over the quirky locally organized thing with a half-assed website because it's run by runners rather than marketers. Which to me means that unless you really want to go for the UTMB glamour, it's better to avoid the stone-collecting races altogether and spend your money and time on the independent races.
All the things that you cherish about the current pre UTMB Arch of Atrrition - the local trail running community, the environs of the locality etc are under threat because of the take over. Corporarisation of running as with anything is all about standardisation to realise huge economies of scale. The Arc is being bought not because of its exceptionalism but precisely in order to fit into an already existing corporate outlook and framework. That's why Charmonie is differenr from how you remember it "back in the day". I fear that only your memories of the Arc will be left are UTMB establish themselves deeply. 😢
I think it's great the UK has another UTMB qualifying race. I'm not a fan of Iron Man but the UTMB trails are some of the best. The Ultra Trail Snowdonia UTMB 100K I did last year was brilliantly organised and not too expensive compaired to other long distance races. The food was great and the suppot was brilliant. I did the UTMB CCC back in 2019 before Iron Man took it over and did notice a drop in quality for the UTMB TDS race in 2022 and 2023 when I did them, especially in the food. Thankfully I finished the TDS last year after a DNF in 2022 at Beaufort, I think because of the 31 degrees temperature. I was more happy with -5 degrees at the top of the mountains last year with the bad weather.
I think the TDS has always been like that Mark, even before Ironman came along 👍 With the race not being part of the UTMB World Series it kind of gets forgotten about. Well done for getting it done last year, the weather conditions were crazy but very British 😂 Thanks for watching and taking the time too comment 🙏
I live in New zealand and you can see the push worldwide for UTMB to buy as many hard races as they can...let's hope they don't water them down - also takes the unique feels out of the races. I recently ran my first 100 miler the Northburn 100 ran by a unique team local to the area. I moved out here 5 years ago before I started my ultra hobby I was planning on running the Arc when I move back as a right of passage. Now I'm thinking I might run something
Change is inevitable. People will always have reasons for, and against, decisions, but having the chance to get stones in your home country is a massive plus. Having lived in Chamonix for 5 years, I can say that I'm really looking forward to going back and hopefully running UTMB. It wasn't until UTCT in Cape Town was started, that it opened the door to this being a possibility again, from a cost justification and motivation perspective. Great vid. Appreciated as always
Thanks Loyd. I agree with you and hope it will prosper the region, enhance the race and especially keep the local organisation and team. I would say it’s either buy the Arc of make another Arc like how they did in Canada…
With change there always comes a degree of risk but I think it's good news. It's already a major event and to see it grow even more is good. A new event on the day starting in St Ives will be really popular. Exciting times for the trail running scene in Cornwall. Still plenty of smaller events around run by local clubs if people are put off by events run by big business. There is something for everyone.
Really think the race directors took the benefits for the local economy into consideration, and possibly it swayed them. It is probably the single biggest positive gesture they could do for the region, and speaks to their decency.
After hosing Gary Robbins and their shenanigans with Whistler (Canada) I swore I'd never give them a cent. Hopefully they don't get every race or I'll be very bored very soon 😅
Good take on this,, you looked at it from both sides with positives but also concerns. As everyone should when hearing news that UTMB has bought another race. As long as the race directors approached them about the race, it could be a good thing. Maybe they needed some help and this decision was to lighten the load. Also, maybe they felt it would bring economy to your small town during the dead season and also help UK Ultra runners get stones for UTMB. The obvious is if UTMB thinks there is money to be made they are going to buy into it, just hope they dont jack up the prices way up for you guys over there and ruin the race.
Ironman needs to sell UTMB and the whole "World Series" off to a more appropriate owner and organizer. They are deeply disliked in the ultra community and we will continue to say it, loud and clear, until Ironman is OUT of the the equation... Fuck UTMB. We will not "come around" to this corporation. France does have great food and wine, though, highly recommend it. It is sad that so many have been hurt by the greed and incompetency of UTMB/Ironman.
Ironman doesn’t own UTMB? Iroman is a minority shareholder so it can’t sell UTMB. Like I said in the video, I’m not a fan of Ironman either but I do love the UTMB event 🤔
In the UK at least I don’t see what the fuss is about. There are hundreds of fell races each year of varying distances, run by clubs that have an incredible history and attract very high level runners. For those that prefer the more trail, signposted races there are loads to choose from too. UTMB run two races in the UK, out of thousands of races in total. For those complaining about the environmental impact, surely it’s better to be able to collect stones at UK events than having to travel abroad to do so?
I am a little confused, if so many people hate UTMB why there events are sell outs? I really enjoyed UTS last year and I’m volunteering this year to pay for the 2025 edition.
I think the people who hate UTMB are the ones who like to get on forums to give everyone the benefit of their opinion. I suspect most of us just get on with it, picking and choosing events as we see fit. There are plenty of "races" of all types. If people don't want to run UTMB that's fine, the events are pricey and not to everyone's taste. But if all these people slating UTMB accurately represent the "ultra community" the organisation will quickly fade away. Be interesting to see if that happens. See you in Llanberis !
Nice rounded video. So long as UTMB conduct themselves in a more profesional way than they did in Whistler then best of luck to them. I've seen it with lots of businesses, when things start to amalgamate it doesn't take long for off shoots and and other groups to form. So long as the barriers to entry for new races don't get worse it may not be all bad.
I was thinking about this. Half of Cornwall already seem to hate the race (but in typical Cornish style, love our money). there were further restrictions on crew access this year, so I can't imagine the locals being happy about the Poletti juggernaut rolling into town. Also, as we've seen year in year out with Ironman, that goodwill of volunteers supporting a local race wears out pretty quickly when you are working for nothing to support another faceless corp.
The race will go off in two waves so as not to swamp the village with 1000 runners. I would hope there has been consultation and agreement from the local authority and villagers councillors on this.
I think this is a really good, balanced take. It would have been easy for you Loyd to hop on the cool-train of UTMB hatred, so props for saying as you feel.
@Run4Adventure Wonderful story about your path! Keep going! Thing to change something about your favorite race in UK is to initiate organization of some race by yourself or to be a major sponsor. 😊
I’m pleased for MudCrew as this shows what a truly worldwide appealing race they have created, but sadly it will drop from my radar as I like to treat my races as I do my beers and support local. Like when Sharps sold out to Molson Coors or Wychwood to Marstons I stopped drinking their beers and switched to smaller breweries. This will continue to be my running ethos too. Goodbye Arc 😢 but hello other races 😊
Personally, I'm gutted. UTMB has been monopolising the racing scene, depriving local race organisers of their livelihood. Their impact on the environment is enormous, since to collect the running stones runners have to fly worldwide. They're sponsored by the likes of Dacia which is not particularly environmentally friendly (although Dacia works on developing a more sustainable mobility plan to get runners to races, it would be good to get some specific details). Cornwall needs more investment, but how much of the money left by runners at the UTMB race village will reach the local population?
With only one race in the U.K., is it really monopolising? Even world wide they are a tiny percentage of the races available. Surely, if runners travelling the world collecting stones is having an environmental impact, you welcome the opportunity for those runners to not travel so far and reduce that impact? The money at the event village is largely spent at stalls and food stands, which includes locals in Llanberris, but it’s the accommodation, pubs, and restaurants that get a boost during the quiet months. All that being said, this is not a new event, so you could say some of that about it even as a non-UTMB event.
A real upside of this news is the amount of new not for profit events which will be created by people who seem to loath UTMB so much. I’m sure they will be a roaring success.
Oh Dear, being here right now as I write this post, Cornwall is not designed to take that kinda foot fall, emergency services 🚨will not be happy & nor will locals. Biffa will be delighted 🗑️#corporatetakeover
So, I've been visiting Chamonix on and off snowboarding for 20+ years and living in the Alpine region for the last 9. It's a classic example of what many ski resorts are doing to become long-term, full-season resorts, diversifying from just Snowsports to all-year-round multi-discipline (run, bike, climb) etc. As with any major event, the challenge is balancing the event's eco-impact on the landscape with the extra revenue it generates. Cornwall has its economic challenges, and the event will bring additional profile, revenue etc. At the same time with the additional profile, the last thing you want is for the environment to be trashed and for the run to lose it's traditional appeal. Leave nothing but footprints
As a member of the Green Runners (co-founded by Jasmin Paris & Damian Hall), I'm gutted. As other commenters have said, UTMB is sponsored by Dacia and encourages people to fly around the world in order to collect stones I'm trying to stick to local races at the mo, the smaller/more grass-roots the better, but I can't deny the pull of races like The Arc and Ultra Trail Snowdonia. I just don't want to see smaller race directors forced out, and one single corporation controlling all the major races. I suppose it's just a sign of how popular ultrarunning has become, and I'm really happy that more people are discovering it - no gate-keeping here - but I wish UTMB wasn't monopolising the scene, and I wish they cared more about their environmental impact and thr impact on smaller local races.
Regarding your first point, actually this is the opposite. Instead with more qualifying races around the world, people can participate in races closer to their homes to collect stones. And yeah I also don't know how to feel about a big corporation taking over all races.
People talk about monopoly but this is the first UTMB race in England and only the second in the UK. Nothing stops anybody from entering the hundreds of local races around your place. I run both UTMB series and locals races and both have their pros and cons. I've done UTS twice and it's still an amazing race, the spirit is still here. The bib costs a lot though.
Great balanced video and thanks for the insight. Pretty gutted. Your videos got me into coast path running (like others) and I feel like UTMB was really not the organisation to sell to nor is it in flavour at the moment (ie read the room of the current sentiment towards them in the community). I guess the race was already quite big and it’s understandable that things expand and directors want to move on, but I think it’s the wrong organisation to partner with. I think something like what Centurion have signed up to with the World Series would be a much better fit. But it’s the way everything goes I guess. There were already creeping issues with the capacity of car parks etc and the event was a little on a knife edge with balancing local goodwill. Not sure that UTMBs presence will assist with that.
I think 2022 i did more trail ultra events than any other year, i was either in another country or the UK running an Ultra event every other month, every event was sold out post Covid. I'm not sure we're in the same place now things have settled back down, I see a few big organisers saying their races still have spots and this has been the same since Xmas. I'd be interested to see if the appetite to do the stones and get into the big one, UTMB is still the same in 5 years time, it probably will be but i think alot of people will just move on and go elsewhere after doing one or two UTMB events.
I wonder if the utmb deal bans mudcrew from holding events on any part of the arc route, and is this the reason that there's no SW Tranverse this year?
Monopoly is never a good thing (except the board game! ). UTMB is trying to make more and more and more money by buying out anything they can. Bringing money to the local community is no serious argument. Keeping dignity is. I expected from trail running enthusiasts like you, dear Loyd, to be positive, explicit, unambiguous and clearly shout: "I'm completely against it, and I think it's a terrible decision by the organizers of the Arc". Sadly you were not.
I'm still waiting for the "aprils fool"... The Arc was on my list, mainly because of your enthusiasm and videos of the beautiful scenery. It's off the list now. I don't like the way UTMB eats up the sport and the many trail races. And for me personally trail running is not about what UTMB stands for. All about the money.
hmmm, it was on my list, but with UTMB involved I think I'll go elsewhere. I did Eiger before and after UTMB and it's not the same. Everywhere the same food and t-shirts stuff, the local vibe has definitely gone. I wish an ITRA score or something was enough, instead of this funneling into one race series for stones. I do see your point about Chamonix and the UTMB week being special, but I don't like this whole UTMB race series that is starting to dominate (monopolising?) the scene. And this apart from their questionable actions around Wildstrubel and Whistler that left a bad taste in my mouth.
I’m happy with it to be honest, UTMB is on my running bucket list. To have another race in the UK, that can help ‘qualifying’ is only a good thing. Yeah, people will get hung up on sponsors etc but it’s a running race… it’s not that deep.
It’s net good news for me - we need another UTMB race - saves on money and travel than getting points abroad - if you like local, small, less snazzy races there are still plenty of those - I think UTMB are very aware of the concern amongst runners that Arc majesty will be diluted and corporatised, so their no 2 priority will be maintaining the feel of the race. (Making money is a priority for any business) - could bring in more for Cornish economy - May see big names from across the running world attend
UTS changed for the worse after the UTMB takeover and the RD pushed out. Race entry fees skyrocketed too. Why would the takeover of the ARC be any different? 😢
At least UTMB kept the three main race organizers, kudos for that. Sadly though, if the West slips into recession my take is that the only ultra races that will be able to survive, will be UTMB races. 🤷🏼♂️ Happy running and on a positive note, at least we still have races that we can run! 💪🏻
Would this be a good time to ask again for this years ARC video, well I was just about to edit my post should of watched till the end before posting lol
I see this as bad news. Used to do Ironmans years ago, so commercialised now. Did UTS 50k last year, actual race was good but the organisation wasn’t the best, it’s just a numbers game to make money.
Thanks for the update Loyd, excuse my ignorance but when I hear that UTMB have bought a race what does that actually mean? I'm guessing a race director will have put a value on the race and UTMB will have literally paid the asking price in order to bring it into their stable of events, is that right? If so they'll need to get that money back some how and I just wander if the infrastructure will handle the additional entries / races that hit the coast path. cheers Loyd 👍
The types of businesses running the events are usually very small so I probably wouldn't think of it as transaction like that. There's simply not enough asset or future value to put a number on it. It's probably more like a licensing deal whereby UTMB pay a nominal licence fee to the organiser, undertake the marketing and administration activity and contribute to the running costs - for which they'll participate to a greater or lesser extent in the event profits (if there are any). People accusing the Mudcrew team of selling out would be way off the mark. But yes, in order to recoup their costs, UTMB will have figured out how many entrants will be required and at what fee, hence the additional and likely very popular ARC25 race.
Unfortunately given what happened in Whistler with Gary Robbins I hope the RDs are able to keep at the helm of the ship and aren't used to set up the show and then shipped off when they have the blueprint in place. For any runners who dont know please go have a look at UTMB whistler and what happened there.
I'm not great on French statutory filings, but I think that the majority of UTMB is owned by members of the Poletti family. Advance Publications group (which owns the Ironman brand) is a minority shareholder. I can't figure out the exact capital allocations, so I'm not sure what majority and minority actually means in this instance. Advance Publications is an American firm owned by the Newhouse family. See here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advance_Publications
Another race being ruined by a company who went from epic (utmb) to a fucking nightmare (utmb by ironman). Terrible for normal everyday runners. I doubt I would ever make it in, or have the fitness. But with that disclosure, until something changes I won't ever even try.
Not good news. UTMB entries too expensive Last year, one of the UTS distances had a checkpoint that ran very low on supplies... maybe a one-off, but very poor for the price
I've already mailed Ferg to let him know my feelings I wonder what James Ellson thinks now he has the Ultra World Major Series race. Making IM and the Pollettis richer than they already are doesn't need any help from me. What a shit show.
@@greigseavill629 Those things are not mutually exclusive though are they. You have to run in some kind of shoe and there are far fewer very small shoe mfrs (there are some of course). It's not a race to the bottom, just because Nike et al don't have a good record, should not blind us the bad practices of IM/UTMB.
@ianl4518 just seems like any other sport to be honest. People pay a premium to who they consider makes the best product. It would be great if all the races were run by local communities and all the money stayed in the local community but I can't think of a sport where that is actually the case? Aren't utmb just part way through their life cycle. Eventually they'll saturate the market the USP will be lost and something else will take its place.
@@Cinefilasthenos This was definitely not a sponsored video! I was just giving my honest thoughts on the announcement. These two races really mean a lot to me and like I said in the video, there’s some things I’m not sure about but I’m going to give UTMB a chance before I shot them down in flames 👍
It's called progress. You cant have all these podcasts and promotion of a sport and then expect it to stay a little secret for a special few. It's still a super minority sport and the majority of the planet has never head of UTMB anyway. If you want a small event they still exist. Over reaction to this and the whistler thing is ridiculous.
One of the best things about UK races is the distinct feel you get at each race. UTMB produce the same corporate experience every time. I always wanted to do the Arc, won't be looking at it anymore.
True, although there are a number of U.K. races that are part of a ‘chain’ which people do because of the reliability. Ourea, Centurion, Threshold etc, manage to give each race a unique personality while delivering on runners expectations, why would UTMB be any different? The NZ UTMB event is nothing like UTS, but you know certain minimums are standard. Unfortunately, one of those is the price, but none of these bigger events are cheap
I've got to say I'm pretty disappointed about this. I've run the Arc 100 twice. What attracted me to it was the remoteness, almost self sufficient nature of the race, along with the amazing feeling of support from the volunteers and MudCrew team. Yes, the first hour of the Arc is a bit of a queue, but I'm sure as the numbers of runners inevitably increase the race will become a conga line until Lands End… just like UTMB is. I was aiming to go back to UTMB as I DNF'ed the race in 2021. I've been part of the race to collect stones with the aim of going back to UTMB and finishing the job. However I'm getting the feeling that each year it's becoming more and more difficult to get in as the threshold of stones required to get picked out the hat goes up and up. If you don't get in one year what do you… sign up for more UTMB races to get more stones… which in the end is at the detriment to other local ultra races. The UTMB race is spectacular to be a part of, but how many By UTMB races do you need to do to get into it… 2, 4, 6, 10!!? In the end I don't think I can be bothered with it. Growth doesn't alway need to be about money, numbers, media attention, celebrity ultra runners… what about feeling and support to the community and each other. Rant over.
Just completed an LDWA run last weekend in Wales that had loads of check points and it was £35 for 50miles. I was going to register for the Arc after doing the 50 last year and I still will, to support my local race. But I’m sure I’ll do a lot more LDWA events than UTMB’s (meal deals V lobsters).
I travel to the UK to get the low key community feeling I like so much. Was planning to go back and do the Arc again, but not now. Luckily there is a lot "by locals" races still there and I choose to support them before any "by utmb" race.
Hi Loyd, thanks for the update! Not quite sure how i feel about this.
The race is already prestigious enough, and although im pleased to see UTMB giving it their stamp of approval, my heart did sink when i saw this title. I hope they respect the event and, more importantly, the local community. This is such a small path along a beautiful section of coast path. Lets hope they dont trash the ecology by allowing too many runners or upset the local villages and communities. Talks of money aside, im not quite sure about this. Not trying to be negative, just genuinely concerned with this one.
They already added a 50km option so no doubt there will be more people. More people equalling more money. At what cost to the local community? Time will tell
Thanks Loyd. I think the Mudcrew would have thought long & hard on the decision. I believe they want the best for the race. Hopefully it is. Really glad the RDs haven’t changed.
I was hoping to race the ARC50 next year, so personally I'm a bit gutted. But, I get the feeling this was just a matter of time. So kudos to the Mudcrew team for building an event that's valuable enough for UTMB to invest. However, I'm under no illusion that the Newhouse family of Advance Publications (Ironman) became billionaires by keeping things "local" and transferring wealth to the community. And to that extent, I think this is a misstep.
"Being able to gain more stones in the UK will save us money" Ha! Don't forget that the lottery is a zero-sum game. The more tickets/stones being sold, the lower the chance a particular ticket gets drawn. So you're going to have to run more UTMB pyramid scheme races for the same chance to get into the main event, if it becomes easier to get stones.
Trail/ultra running is tough, and you can only run a few events per year. The real issue, I believe, is whether non-UTMB-events get starved for participants. Because for the individual runner it's pretty tempting to choose the well-marketed event with predictable vibe and the added benefit of a stone in the off chance that they want to attempt UTMB at some point in the future, over the quirky locally organized thing with a half-assed website because it's run by runners rather than marketers.
Which to me means that unless you really want to go for the UTMB glamour, it's better to avoid the stone-collecting races altogether and spend your money and time on the independent races.
All the things that you cherish about the current pre UTMB Arch of Atrrition - the local trail running community, the environs of the locality etc are under threat because of the take over. Corporarisation of running as with anything is all about standardisation to realise huge economies of scale. The Arc is being bought not because of its exceptionalism but precisely in order to fit into an already existing corporate outlook and framework. That's why Charmonie is differenr from how you remember it "back in the day". I fear that only your memories of the Arc will be left are UTMB establish themselves deeply. 😢
I think it's great the UK has another UTMB qualifying race. I'm not a fan of Iron Man but the UTMB trails are some of the best. The Ultra Trail Snowdonia UTMB 100K I did last year was brilliantly organised and not too expensive compaired to other long distance races. The food was great and the suppot was brilliant. I did the UTMB CCC back in 2019 before Iron Man took it over and did notice a drop in quality for the UTMB TDS race in 2022 and 2023 when I did them, especially in the food. Thankfully I finished the TDS last year after a DNF in 2022 at Beaufort, I think because of the 31 degrees temperature. I was more happy with -5 degrees at the top of the mountains last year with the bad weather.
I think the TDS has always been like that Mark, even before Ironman came along 👍 With the race not being part of the UTMB World Series it kind of gets forgotten about. Well done for getting it done last year, the weather conditions were crazy but very British 😂
Thanks for watching and taking the time too comment 🙏
Loyd, how about organizing a race in Cornwall during the slow season for all your followers!
I live in New zealand and you can see the push worldwide for UTMB to buy as many hard races as they can...let's hope they don't water them down - also takes the unique feels out of the races. I recently ran my first 100 miler the Northburn 100 ran by a unique team local to the area. I moved out here 5 years ago before I started my ultra hobby I was planning on running the Arc when I move back as a right of passage. Now I'm thinking I might run something
Change is inevitable. People will always have reasons for, and against, decisions, but having the chance to get stones in your home country is a massive plus.
Having lived in Chamonix for 5 years, I can say that I'm really looking forward to going back and hopefully running UTMB.
It wasn't until UTCT in Cape Town was started, that it opened the door to this being a possibility again, from a cost justification and motivation perspective. Great vid. Appreciated as always
Thanks Loyd. I agree with you and hope it will prosper the region, enhance the race and especially keep the local organisation and team. I would say it’s either buy the Arc of make another Arc like how they did in Canada…
With change there always comes a degree of risk but I think it's good news. It's already a major event and to see it grow even more is good. A new event on the day starting in St Ives will be really popular. Exciting times for the trail running scene in Cornwall. Still plenty of smaller events around run by local clubs if people are put off by events run by big business. There is something for everyone.
Really think the race directors took the benefits for the local economy into consideration, and possibly it swayed them. It is probably the single biggest positive gesture they could do for the region, and speaks to their decency.
After hosing Gary Robbins and their shenanigans with Whistler (Canada) I swore I'd never give them a cent. Hopefully they don't get every race or I'll be very bored very soon 😅
Totally agree, the way they treated Gary told me everything I needed to know about their ethics. What a shame for the Arc.
Good take on this,, you looked at it from both sides with positives but also concerns. As everyone should when hearing news that UTMB has bought another race. As long as the race directors approached them about the race, it could be a good thing. Maybe they needed some help and this decision was to lighten the load. Also, maybe they felt it would bring economy to your small town during the dead season and also help UK Ultra runners get stones for UTMB. The obvious is if UTMB thinks there is money to be made they are going to buy into it, just hope they dont jack up the prices way up for you guys over there and ruin the race.
Ironman needs to sell UTMB and the whole "World Series" off to a more appropriate owner and organizer. They are deeply disliked in the ultra community and we will continue to say it, loud and clear, until Ironman is OUT of the the equation... Fuck UTMB. We will not "come around" to this corporation. France does have great food and wine, though, highly recommend it. It is sad that so many have been hurt by the greed and incompetency of UTMB/Ironman.
Ironman doesn’t own UTMB? Iroman is a minority shareholder so it can’t sell UTMB. Like I said in the video, I’m not a fan of Ironman either but I do love the UTMB event 🤔
In the UK at least I don’t see what the fuss is about. There are hundreds of fell races each year of varying distances, run by clubs that have an incredible history and attract very high level runners. For those that prefer the more trail, signposted races there are loads to choose from too. UTMB run two races in the UK, out of thousands of races in total. For those complaining about the environmental impact, surely it’s better to be able to collect stones at UK events than having to travel abroad to do so?
I am a little confused, if so many people hate UTMB why there events are sell outs? I really enjoyed UTS last year and I’m volunteering this year to pay for the 2025 edition.
I think the people who hate UTMB are the ones who like to get on forums to give everyone the benefit of their opinion. I suspect most of us just get on with it, picking and choosing events as we see fit. There are plenty of "races" of all types. If people don't want to run UTMB that's fine, the events are pricey and not to everyone's taste. But if all these people slating UTMB accurately represent the "ultra community" the organisation will quickly fade away. Be interesting to see if that happens. See you in Llanberis !
Nice rounded video. So long as UTMB conduct themselves in a more profesional way than they did in Whistler then best of luck to them. I've seen it with lots of businesses, when things start to amalgamate it doesn't take long for off shoots and and other groups to form. So long as the barriers to entry for new races don't get worse it may not be all bad.
I’m in your vid 3 times. Probably because I was wearing a UTMB logo hat. I’ll send the invoice for my image rights 😅
Suits you mate 😉
I'm sure the people of Coverack will be thrilled
I was thinking about this. Half of Cornwall already seem to hate the race (but in typical Cornish style, love our money). there were further restrictions on crew access this year, so I can't imagine the locals being happy about the Poletti juggernaut rolling into town.
Also, as we've seen year in year out with Ironman, that goodwill of volunteers supporting a local race wears out pretty quickly when you are working for nothing to support another faceless corp.
The race will go off in two waves so as not to swamp the village with 1000 runners. I would hope there has been consultation and agreement from the local authority and villagers councillors on this.
Oh dear thats the kiss of death to the Arc then 😮
I think this is a really good, balanced take. It would have been easy for you Loyd to hop on the cool-train of UTMB hatred, so props for saying as you feel.
@Run4Adventure Wonderful story about your path! Keep going! Thing to change something about your favorite race in UK is to initiate organization of some race by yourself or to be a major sponsor. 😊
Loyd, did you and Stephen Cousins get advanced notice of this news? You both had well edited videos out very quickly after the announcement.
Most likely notified prior to it becoming public knowledge as a ‘press’ outlet so they could prepare content to be released after the embargo lifted
Looking forward to seeing Kilian Jornet mucking on a pasty.
I have a bad feeling about this ........good point about brnging money into Cornwall in the quiet months though
I’m pleased for MudCrew as this shows what a truly worldwide appealing race they have created, but sadly it will drop from my radar as I like to treat my races as I do my beers and support local. Like when Sharps sold out to Molson Coors or Wychwood to Marstons I stopped drinking their beers and switched to smaller breweries. This will continue to be my running ethos too. Goodbye Arc 😢 but hello other races 😊
Personally, I'm gutted. UTMB has been monopolising the racing scene, depriving local race organisers of their livelihood. Their impact on the environment is enormous, since to collect the running stones runners have to fly worldwide. They're sponsored by the likes of Dacia which is not particularly environmentally friendly (although Dacia works on developing a more sustainable mobility plan to get runners to races, it would be good to get some specific details). Cornwall needs more investment, but how much of the money left by runners at the UTMB race village will reach the local population?
With only one race in the U.K., is it really monopolising? Even world wide they are a tiny percentage of the races available. Surely, if runners travelling the world collecting stones is having an environmental impact, you welcome the opportunity for those runners to not travel so far and reduce that impact? The money at the event village is largely spent at stalls and food stands, which includes locals in Llanberris, but it’s the accommodation, pubs, and restaurants that get a boost during the quiet months. All that being said, this is not a new event, so you could say some of that about it even as a non-UTMB event.
A real upside of this news is the amount of new not for profit events which will be created by people who seem to loath UTMB so much. I’m sure they will be a roaring success.
Well. Not what I expected. 😂
Very interesting though. Fingers crossed, I hope it works.
The question is: did UTMB buy ARC, or have The ARC sold themselves to UTMB...? Anyway, for sure the race will get more attention! Cheers!
Oh Dear, being here right now as I write this post, Cornwall is not designed to take that kinda foot fall, emergency services 🚨will not be happy & nor will locals. Biffa will be delighted 🗑️#corporatetakeover
Good afternoon. Interesting reflection. Like to Run4adventure. Have a great day.
Hope it works, sometimes when the corporate world takes over. Things become about profit. But not always change can be good or bad
So, I've been visiting Chamonix on and off snowboarding for 20+ years and living in the Alpine region for the last 9. It's a classic example of what many ski resorts are doing to become long-term, full-season resorts, diversifying from just Snowsports to all-year-round multi-discipline (run, bike, climb) etc.
As with any major event, the challenge is balancing the event's eco-impact on the landscape with the extra revenue it generates.
Cornwall has its economic challenges, and the event will bring additional profile, revenue etc. At the same time with the additional profile, the last thing you want is for the environment to be trashed and for the run to lose it's traditional appeal.
Leave nothing but footprints
As a member of the Green Runners (co-founded by Jasmin Paris & Damian Hall), I'm gutted.
As other commenters have said, UTMB is sponsored by Dacia and encourages people to fly around the world in order to collect stones
I'm trying to stick to local races at the mo, the smaller/more grass-roots the better, but I can't deny the pull of races like The Arc and Ultra Trail Snowdonia.
I just don't want to see smaller race directors forced out, and one single corporation controlling all the major races.
I suppose it's just a sign of how popular ultrarunning has become, and I'm really happy that more people are discovering it - no gate-keeping here - but I wish UTMB wasn't monopolising the scene, and I wish they cared more about their environmental impact and thr impact on smaller local races.
Regarding your first point, actually this is the opposite. Instead with more qualifying races around the world, people can participate in races closer to their homes to collect stones.
And yeah I also don't know how to feel about a big corporation taking over all races.
People talk about monopoly but this is the first UTMB race in England and only the second in the UK. Nothing stops anybody from entering the hundreds of local races around your place. I run both UTMB series and locals races and both have their pros and cons. I've done UTS twice and it's still an amazing race, the spirit is still here. The bib costs a lot though.
I totally agree, wise words 👍🙂
Great balanced video and thanks for the insight. Pretty gutted. Your videos got me into coast path running (like others) and I feel like UTMB was really not the organisation to sell to nor is it in flavour at the moment (ie read the room of the current sentiment towards them in the community). I guess the race was already quite big and it’s understandable that things expand and directors want to move on, but I think it’s the wrong organisation to partner with. I think something like what Centurion have signed up to with the World Series would be a much better fit. But it’s the way everything goes I guess. There were already creeping issues with the capacity of car parks etc and the event was a little on a knife edge with balancing local goodwill. Not sure that UTMBs presence will assist with that.
They also bought the Swedish ultra marathon Kullamannen. I think last year was the first Kullamannen by UTMB.
In unrelated news, entry into The Arc of Attrition 2025 has increased 37%...
I think 2022 i did more trail ultra events than any other year, i was either in another country or the UK running an Ultra event every other month, every event was sold out post Covid. I'm not sure we're in the same place now things have settled back down, I see a few big organisers saying their races still have spots and this has been the same since Xmas.
I'd be interested to see if the appetite to do the stones and get into the big one, UTMB is still the same in 5 years time, it probably will be but i think alot of people will just move on and go elsewhere after doing one or two UTMB events.
I wonder if the utmb deal bans mudcrew from holding events on any part of the arc route, and is this the reason that there's no SW Tranverse this year?
I don’t think it’s got anything to do with this announcement? Unfortunately they weren’t getting enough runners entering the SWT 👍
It's going to price many out and be a money making exercise. I've spoken to alot of people at skyline who are very worried it will go UTMB.
Monopoly is never a good thing (except the board game! ).
UTMB is trying to make more and more and more money by buying out anything they can.
Bringing money to the local community is no serious argument. Keeping dignity is.
I expected from trail running enthusiasts like you, dear Loyd, to be positive, explicit, unambiguous and clearly shout: "I'm completely against it, and I think it's a terrible decision by the organizers of the Arc".
Sadly you were not.
Support your local race director if you want to do something about the mass corporate takeover - Ironman, Lifetime, IMG, Spartan
I'm still waiting for the "aprils fool"...
The Arc was on my list, mainly because of your enthusiasm and videos of the beautiful scenery. It's off the list now. I don't like the way UTMB eats up the sport and the many trail races. And for me personally trail running is not about what UTMB stands for. All about the money.
Remember, UTMB only has two events in the UK. Centurion has many many more. Hardmoors has more. It’s not a monopoly.
hmmm, it was on my list, but with UTMB involved I think I'll go elsewhere. I did Eiger before and after UTMB and it's not the same. Everywhere the same food and t-shirts stuff, the local vibe has definitely gone. I wish an ITRA score or something was enough, instead of this funneling into one race series for stones. I do see your point about Chamonix and the UTMB week being special, but I don't like this whole UTMB race series that is starting to dominate (monopolising?) the scene. And this apart from their questionable actions around Wildstrubel and Whistler that left a bad taste in my mouth.
I want to support local people organising local races, not corporate America.
Hi Lyod, UTMB are adding an Arc 25 (40k) starting near St Ives for 2025
That’s right Peter 👍
I’m happy with it to be honest, UTMB is on my running bucket list. To have another race in the UK, that can help ‘qualifying’ is only a good thing. Yeah, people will get hung up on sponsors etc but it’s a running race… it’s not that deep.
It’s net good news for me
- we need another UTMB race
- saves on money and travel than getting points abroad
- if you like local, small, less snazzy races there are still plenty of those
- I think UTMB are very aware of the concern amongst runners that Arc majesty will be diluted and corporatised, so their no 2 priority will be maintaining the feel of the race. (Making money is a priority for any business)
- could bring in more for Cornish economy
- May see big names from across the running world attend
Thanks for the great comment 👍
I totally agree with everything you mentioned, well said Jack 🙂
UTS changed for the worse after the UTMB takeover and the RD pushed out. Race entry fees skyrocketed too.
Why would the takeover of the ARC be any different? 😢
At least UTMB kept the three main race organizers, kudos for that. Sadly though, if the West slips into recession my take is that the only ultra races that will be able to survive, will be UTMB races. 🤷🏼♂️ Happy running and on a positive note, at least we still have races that we can run! 💪🏻
Wise words 👍
Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment 🙏
Would this be a good time to ask again for this years ARC video, well I was just about to edit my post should of watched till the end before posting lol
Did you not watch this video Alan? I actually spoke about this years Arc race video 👍
I see this as bad news. Used to do Ironmans years ago, so commercialised now. Did UTS 50k last year, actual race was good but the organisation wasn’t the best, it’s just a numbers game to make money.
Was thinking of doing this race. Not anymore this sucks
Hopefully there's no entries by charity or sponsorship. Qualifying races only!
Will the arc 50 still qualify you for the 100. Did the 50 this year with the hopes of the 100 next January
your stones are valid for 2 years so if you dont win in the lottery the same stones can be used the following year. i am correct thinking this
Really terrible news! The event will never be the same again!
That’s it fucked now
I have to say, I feel for the April fool saying that UTMB bought the Barkley marathons! I can’t believe I feel for it!
Thanks for the update Loyd, excuse my ignorance but when I hear that UTMB have bought a race what does that actually mean? I'm guessing a race director will have put a value on the race and UTMB will have literally paid the asking price in order to bring it into their stable of events, is that right? If so they'll need to get that money back some how and I just wander if the infrastructure will handle the additional entries / races that hit the coast path. cheers Loyd 👍
The types of businesses running the events are usually very small so I probably wouldn't think of it as transaction like that. There's simply not enough asset or future value to put a number on it. It's probably more like a licensing deal whereby UTMB pay a nominal licence fee to the organiser, undertake the marketing and administration activity and contribute to the running costs - for which they'll participate to a greater or lesser extent in the event profits (if there are any). People accusing the Mudcrew team of selling out would be way off the mark. But yes, in order to recoup their costs, UTMB will have figured out how many entrants will be required and at what fee, hence the additional and likely very popular ARC25 race.
Unfortunately given what happened in Whistler with Gary Robbins I hope the RDs are able to keep at the helm of the ship and aren't used to set up the show and then shipped off when they have the blueprint in place. For any runners who dont know please go have a look at UTMB whistler and what happened there.
Is there accurate or detailed information on who what entities own the UTMB?
UTMB is owned by the Poletti family who started the race in 2003 and Ironman Group are a minority shareholder 👍
I'm not great on French statutory filings, but I think that the majority of UTMB is owned by members of the Poletti family. Advance Publications group (which owns the Ironman brand) is a minority shareholder. I can't figure out the exact capital allocations, so I'm not sure what majority and minority actually means in this instance. Advance Publications is an American firm owned by the Newhouse family. See here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advance_Publications
Honestly.. Putin could buy it for all I care, as long as they don’t change the route, I’m happy
Another race being ruined by a company who went from epic (utmb) to a fucking nightmare (utmb by ironman).
Terrible for normal everyday runners. I doubt I would ever make it in, or have the fitness. But with that disclosure, until something changes I won't ever even try.
This is extremely depressing news. Not everything needs to grow and become more corporate.
Not good news. UTMB entries too expensive
Last year, one of the UTS distances had a checkpoint that ran very low on supplies... maybe a one-off, but very poor for the price
😮
Still waiting for the full review of the New Balance Fresh Foam X Hierro v8. 🤞
Just saying..
It’s coming soon 👍😁
@@Run4Adventure Great! 😁
Ah this is such a shame!
I've already mailed Ferg to let him know my feelings I wonder what James Ellson thinks now he has the Ultra World Major Series race. Making IM and the Pollettis richer than they already are doesn't need any help from me.
What a shit show.
Plenty of people happy to support nike, adidas, puma with buying trainers. All of whom have far worse records as companies than IM or UTMB.
@@greigseavill629 Those things are not mutually exclusive though are they. You have to run in some kind of shoe and there are far fewer very small shoe mfrs (there are some of course).
It's not a race to the bottom, just because Nike et al don't have a good record, should not blind us the bad practices of IM/UTMB.
@ianl4518 just seems like any other sport to be honest. People pay a premium to who they consider makes the best product. It would be great if all the races were run by local communities and all the money stayed in the local community but I can't think of a sport where that is actually the case? Aren't utmb just part way through their life cycle. Eventually they'll saturate the market the USP will be lost and something else will take its place.
"What to put as occupation if you're a content creator" 🤣
Sad news. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer 😢
Is this video sponsored by UTMB?
Sponsored by UTMB? Did you watch the video? 🤷♂️
@@Run4Adventure Sadly, dear Loyd, you kept on straddling the fence. And I did watch the video.
Wouldn't be wise falling out with UTMB...
@@Cinefilasthenos This was definitely not a sponsored video! I was just giving my honest thoughts on the announcement. These two races really mean a lot to me and like I said in the video, there’s some things I’m not sure about but I’m going to give UTMB a chance before I shot them down in flames 👍
@@Cinefilasthenos Yeah, went well for Killian Jornet didn't it 🙄
Plague qualifying still??????
Yes 👍
@@clivefinnimore5304 I wonder how long for though?
This year only. Not after. Confirmed by MudCrew... Disappointingly.
Arc selling their soul! Sad
and do you think its a good news according to the facts about the "by utmb" team??? ........mlm of the trail running, all about money....shame
If you watch the video you’ll find out how I feel about the whole situation 👍
I don't believe this is good for the sport. Monopolising the sport cannot be positive unless you are pro UTMB and can afford these events
It's called progress. You cant have all these podcasts and promotion of a sport and then expect it to stay a little secret for a special few. It's still a super minority sport and the majority of the planet has never head of UTMB anyway. If you want a small event they still exist. Over reaction to this and the whistler thing is ridiculous.
I totally agree John, when did I over react? 🤷♂️
Ugh.