One of the saddest verses in the Bible is written of Samson - 'And he knew not that the Lord had departed from him.' (Judges 16:20) Unfortunately this statement can also be said of (much) of the western church today...
I’m 28, and converted to Church of England to Roman Catholic. I think the biggest issue is everyone is worried about the decline in member, but so many older Christians would rather die then spread the gospel. If it is to change, we all have to talk to our friends and family to make them come. Also, young people are interested in conservative church, listen up Church of England!
I went to Sunday school in a methodist church and my children were baptised in one. Now ALL the local ones have closed and I found it very sad, but if they have departed from the word of God, Jesus himself said in a parable that the light would be taken from the and given to another
I'm a Baptist by conviction and I concur that though we are not doing as badly as most of the older denominations, we are beginning to struggle. Progressive ideology is beginning to creep in, and as you rightly say, it isn't going to reverse any decline. Its very worrying and we need to move now to keep it from taking over.
I am an elder in the Church of Scotland, and agree that the picture is one of slow but steady decline. Much of this is because, sadly, older members are dying off and it is hard to engage younger people with he Gospel (not least because of the deplorable state of religious education). But also, if churches turn their back on settled biblical doctrine and are guided by the "spirit of the age" rather than the Holy Spirit, they are committing slow suicide. God is not mocked, and reckoning will follow.
An accurate assessment. Throughout the history of the true church, reformation always leads to apostasy of the existing order and a split where the true believers are forced out because they are labeled heretics and accused of dividing the church. The actual cause is those who refuse to abide in the Word and demand others conform to their anti-christian beliefs.
@@psalmistinprogress9089 I would say anti-Christ beliefs rather than anti-christian ❤ When He and His Word become distorted into how we think things should be we see a move away from Truth and into a self life. We choose to become like gods. Genesis shows this clearly when the serpent sad to Eve, "Did God REALLY say etc" and "If you eat of this fruit you will be like gods." As soon as we step outside the Paradigm of God's order we head down the wide and slippery slope of becoming idolaters with ourselves as a self proclaimed god, even if it is cloaked in some other words. The latest are words like, influencer, environmentalist, progressive, inclusive, etc but I thank God that are men and women who hold firmly to the Truth of God and His Word and acknowledge, teach and proclaim Jesus Christ as Lord and ONLY Saviour of our souls and only intermediary to the Father ❤
Over 1 in 10 Catholic priests in England are former Anglican clergy. The Catholic Church will not dissapear because Jesus Christ does not break his promises. When society crumbles She will be there, as she always has, picking up the pieces and rebuilding the reign of Jesus Christ. To whom else can we go?
I'm an evangelical vicar in the Church in Wales, and this is very clear from here. The independents/Congregational and Calvinistic Methodist/Prebyterian and the Church in Wales have all aggressively pursued a theologically liberal agenda and will cease to exist soon. Rural Wales does not attract much ministry from Elim or Vineyard and denominational leaders are driving the nation into darkness. Arglwydd truguha, Lord have mercy!
I moved from a C of E church to a Pentecostal church five years ago, my new church is flourishing and my old C of E church is dying. The Pentecostal church is full of life because it appeals to young people, it’s a simple formula of great worship, a strong word of God delivered by strong church leaders who are faithful to scripture, and also great fellowship. The format rarely changes because it suits the modern lives of the congregation, the simplicity of the format makes it much more accessible to new Christians who are the future of the church. I pray for the C of E because it is the tradition that I grew up with but it has made a wrong turn with progressivism that only adds confusion to those seeking spiritual guidance.
@Geraldine Burden fair enough. However it does state the monarch has the surprise authority over all persons in matters ecclesiastical and civil… Kinda throws people.
A quotation from "Thoughts Upon Methodism" by John Wesley, written near the end of his life in 1786: 'I am not afraid that the people called Methodists should ever cease to exist either in Europe or America. But I am afraid lest they should only exist as a dead sect, having the form of religion without the power. And this undoubtedly will be the case unless they hold fast both the doctrine, spirit, and discipline with which they first set out.'
Fascinating stuff. As the son and brother evangelical CofE clergymen, who grew up in the CofE and who then became a member of the Methodist Church 20 years ago when I moved to get married, this resonates strongly. British Methodism is run by fundamentalist liberals. Some evangelical ministers have been forced out of Methodism over their refusal to accept ssm. Very sadly it is now in full collapse. I left last year and now worship with the Wesleyan Reform Union, a small evangelical Wesleyan denomination. Not sure I agree about worship styles. They can be just as worldly as doctrine - even in evangelical churches! And Orthodox churches are growing in this country - they don't give an inch on their liturgy. Shallow and doctrinally weak worship is often indicative of shallow discipleship: it might attract a crowd for a while but it's unlikely to last.
I go to WR too - simple, plain, word-of-Christ-based services, and some smashing hymns! Not many youngsters though, still. Recently, some methodists have joined us from the next village and their chapel is now closed, sadly.
Interesting video but the problem is that all the emphasis is on decline. Yes there is serious decline but how much of that is due to the infiltration of liberal/rationalist theology which gives no hope and fundamentally denies the Gospel. As a former Anglican ministering in a large parish, the attendance was small. One has only got yo look at the leadership in the Anglican church at the present time and there is a large part of the problem. I am now by the Grace of God, a Catholic priest. I am officially retired but attached to a large city parish where the weekly attendance is in the region of 500, with many young families. We have a much larger Sunday attendance than the local Anglican Cathedral, and our church is just one of 6 Catholic parishes in the city. Yes there are problems due to a lack of priests at the moment, but we must never forget that the Lord Himself said, "I will build my Church and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it". We need to take seriously the words of the Lord as recorded in 2Chron 7:14, "If my people who are called by by name, humble themselves, and pray and seek my face. and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land".
Thank you for bringing this - a real eye opener! God will shut down a thriving church in less time than that if He chooses to do so. I belonged to an amazing, thriving church in the 70s and 80s. Then we came under the influence of a different church and our interpretation of various verses changed quickly. I have never seen a church empty so quickly. God showed us to leave in a very direct way, and the numbers halved from week to week. But there were some really strong Christians in that church, many of whom went on to become elders and leaders elsewhere. A forecast would never have shown such a thing happening.
Don't shoot the messenger! Dan is merely relaying the interesting forecasts provided by these reports into the decline of most Churches in the UK. I have to say, I was surprised that the CofE is not quite as bad as many others!
I attend a wonderful New Frontiers church where the Word of God is faithfully proclaimed week by week. It is full of young families and we enjoy Godly Spirit filled worship. As an older person I am loving it!
Good to hear it. Just be aware of the devil's ploys - he loves to cause disruption and chaos in the true church of God. I've seen it happen before. As the Bible says - the devil is the father of lies, and divisions often start with someone telling lies about someone else. If anyone says something derogatory about another person, ask yourself: "Is it True? Is it Necessary? Is it Kind?"
I am a Roman Catholic.I have seen changes in the Roman Catholic Church. We need more Men to enter the Catholic Priesthood,or Churches will close. How about the Mormons and the JW’s.How are they doing in the UK.
Very interesting - in the CoE is there any evidence that ordaining women as vicars and bishops did anything to reverse the trend? I would suspect that the reverse is the case.
Lots of food for thought here. As a Catholic I don't think our church will ever die out, but people falling away is a problem and we could lose many of the smaller churches and mass centres, leaving many souls behind. Too many in the hierarchy seem happy to manage decline. Perhaps they should watch this video.
Surely! And same should to be said of the CofE and regular (non GAFCON) Anglicanism. Why? There will always to be those moderate ones whom wish for a moderate way of preaching the word of the Lord!.... Of course, and as another Catholic, I agree with you that most of our leaders are happy enough to manage the decline on the west, on both "B16" or "Francis" sides of the pond, sadly!...
@@nunagoras It's laughable that y'all paint the loss of ground in the west to sexual immorality. That's the hypocricy; there are many other sins that are equally important. . Regardless, same sex attraction isn't merely erotic attraction. You have an unconscious bias.
Within the Catholic Church in Britain, those places that offer the Latin Mass are all doing well. The congregation at the church that I attend is growing steadily, and much of the growth is amongst those who attend the Latin Mass.
I am not sure how to read the graph, as my Catholic Church of Roman Rite here in the UK is concerned. Catholic churches are not too empty (definitely fuller than CofE), and Catholic schools do have a great reputation and overall they keep Catholicism well alive through high-quality education. That said, I don't even care too much: I trust what Jesus said: "Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it” (Matt. 16:18). God bless.
If those bishops don't wake up to themselves, it will be the C of E unfortunately. Is it any wonder a lot of reverends are signing up to GAFCON, so to speak.
GAFCON represents an AWAKENING, a REVIVAL, while the politically motivated English Bishops ARE dying on their rotten feet! Representing so large a Church as the Anglican Communion only produces a MEANINGLESS 'mean' position - quite useless.
Really interesting video Dan, it's almost like Churches that actually believe in God are being blessed by Him 🙂. Here in Scotland the Baptist Union of Scotland tends to be more evangelical than BUGB, we are not content to manage decline and have a programme of church planting planned to hopefully reverse the trend DV.
I'm a CoS Minister, and I can tell you that the CoS is only about 5 years from imploding. We only have a handful of biggish Churches (e.g. 180-220) and we don't have enough folk to recreate an HTB type revitalisation. There are pockets of growth, but about 90% of congregations are declining, and many - even in big towns and cities - have no kids and virtually no one under 60. The CoS has just said that it will start having to pay stipends & salaries out of reserves by 2026/2027 as they fully expect decline to continue, or even accelerate when older folk die, which arent being even close to being replaced by conversions or new children. In last few years, the numbers of adults joining the church (professing faith) has averaged under 1 per congregation, with many not having a new convert for a decade. Im in my 30's. I dont expect the CoS to be around beyond perhaps 80-100 congregations (down from 1000) within 15 years because of our much older demographic - most of whom wont be around to volunteer, give or attend by 2040.
I should say that most of the bigger churches or ones that are stable/growing are clearly the evangelical ones. However, many of our stronger evangelical ones have left the CoS or split in past 10-15 years over SSM issue. Most of them are thriving as independents or in the Free Church, and some have even gone on to plant new churches.
Hi Andrew. As Member of the CoS, I'm in full agreement with your comments. How can we possibly expect God to bless a denomination in disobedience to the Word. The FCoS have/are benefitting from the Collapse of the CoS which is fine if the Gospel is being preached. However, neo charismatic movements with their Apostles and Prophets and subtle truth mixed with error preaching ethos seem to be growing at a significantly fast rate. This I also find concerning.
@@armorrison91 Over 1 in 10 Catholic priests in England are former Anglican clergy. The Catholic Church will not dissapear because Jesus Christ does not break his promises. When society crumbles She will be there, as she always has, picking up the pieces and rebuilding the reign of Jesus Christ. To whom else can we go?
Interesting analysis, Rev. Dan. I have attended some of the churches that are not in decline, but sometimes they are a bit nutty. May be I am being vague, but they sometimes seem to be of another spirit and I am not sure if it is always the Holy Spirit. I remember going to one of these churches and the lady in the next pew fell backwards. I had thought that she was have an epileptic seizure. Immediately people rushed to her, but not to help her. They want some of her vibes. So there she was between the next pew and the kneeler and being a big lady, could not get out. No one want to help her up as all seemed to want her vibes. I left as this was too much for me. I think that the church was billing itself as charismatic Anglican. I like Prayer Book worship and the old hymns. Why cannot that be also a way for God to reach people, even old farts like me?
It's tough for liberal-leaning churches to convert people (most people) who are liberal-minded to Christianity now, as it's a damaged/toxic brand among such groups. You get left with an older demographic there which accelerates decline. Theology matters little to growth, aside from whether there's a willingness to bring people in. Some are better than others. CofE has been in decline for over a hundred years. The decline is a demographic issue. People have fewer children, and living longer means older single congregants. I attend an evangelical church, not because I'm an evangelical, but because I have friends/networks there. I'm liberal because I think that's where the scholarship is.
The people who want the doctrine to change aren’t interesting in joining anyway so what is the point of changing it? If doctrine changes those inside who have been warming the pews will find the church irrelevant.
I found this video interesting. I am a member of the Church of England, and a vicar. I am also a former NHS statistician. I am having problems correlating the statistics of 3% annual decline (by which I assume you mean reductions in membership or electoral roll for CofE) with a date of 2050 for the denomination to cease to exist. My calculations suggest that the CofE will be only 40% of the present size, IF (and it is a big IF) present patterns continue for another 30 years until say 2053. They may not do so (as you acknowledge in the video) but if they do I do not think that the CofE would no longer be viable in that case, because it would still number around 400,000 people. It is likely that it would mainly be centred in urban centres, and possibly more balanced towards the evangelical side of the spectrum, but still viable. For financial reasons there would be less hierarchy and admin (good things!) and ministry would be mixed mode (part stipend part secular employment) but that is a very different thing from ceasing to exist. More lay leadership and worker priests as the norm would probably be implied. To take a case in point, about 15% of the population of England live in London. So 15% of the 400,000 Church of England members would be in London. That is 60,000 or nearly 2,000 in each of the 33 London Boroughs (you can exclude the City of London as so few people live there). The is roughly equivalent to about 10 larger churches or 20 smaller ones per borough. For sure that is a lot smaller than now, but it is far from a point of collapse.
When the CofE goes into survival mode the clergy would probably become entirely non-stipendiary. I was raised Episcopalian [USA] and considered becoming Anglican Catholic but decided it was ridiculous to be driving 20 miles just to go to communion. So I tried being Catholic but ended up hating it. The Catholic church is most definitely in severe decline as well. Then I read The Jesus Mysteries by Freke & Gandy not to mention also The Pagan Christ by Harpur, a former Anglican cleric. So I became a Buddhist. To me Buddhism is the ultimate do-it-yourself religion. Post pandemic I no longer believe in group meetings.
@@edvenify Yes, I tried being Eastern Orthodox for a couple of years and have gone on vocations retreats to the local Greek Orthodox monastery or St. Gregory Palamas Skete, Hayesville, Ohio. In retrospect I like Orthodoxy better than either Catholicism or Anglicanism but opted for Pure Land/Ch’an Buddhism. I’m a do-it-yourself Buddhist now as there are very few temples around here and since the pandemic I’m not a big fan of group activities where you’re sitting around breathing everyone else’s air for a couple of hours.
I don't understand how Archbishop Welby is still able to proceed with the coronation. If he has been found to be lying how can he anoint the king or receive his oath?
@@Booger414 You’re right. I’ve been concerned about that in a church I recently attended (before I moved away from the area). One of my friends who is more familiar with the 39 Articles than I am pointed out to me that provision. in a way,
Do you think the Bill to dissolve church of england will happen? Been spoken off a few times over the years but has been doing the rounds again recently.
Just to note im an elderly person myself and what ive written ive practiced in my life my folks in particular taught us to do his example showed us how to live out your faith
There is nothing quite like stating the obvious. However, the true church is not a matter of numbers. Just because something draws more people doesn't mean it is right. Likewise, just because people leave something doesn't mean it is wrong. Standing on the word of God is the key, not traditions or entertainment.
Thank you, Rev. Dan. I have read the documents you discuss, posted by Church Growth Modelling; and I've come across a number of online discussions of their conclusions. So far, yours is the most probing and lucid of these. I'm not in a position to assess the validity of the documents' methodology; but everything said suggests that they are broadly solid in their empirical research. That said, the Church of England (in which I am a lay minister, a Reader) is in an odd position, because of the comparative independence of the parish. I could say much more, but will leave it there. Thanks again, Rev. Dan.
It is so nice reading the comments seeing a young person mention what is lacking that is people going out taking the Gospel to the people not so much speaking although that is vital actions speak louder then words go and take a needy person clothing food just visit a lonely person let people know this way Jesus loves them whilst doing this smile and say Jesus loves you tell them this and say im praying for you
How much of the growth/decline is transfer of people from old denominations to New? How much of the growth is from new converts? How much of the decline is from people giving up church attendance completely and how much from aged attendees literally dying out?
I do not want the Church of England to go. I want the Church of England to stay with the Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareth. Amen Alleluia. Love in Christ from Jesus and Sylvia Nazareth.
Never stop loving our Creator!! Jesus said “if they persecute me they will persecute you too”. These are end times and Jesus kingdom will come battle with Satan and all his evil. “Unless those days are cut short no flesh will be saved”. Now is not the time to be scared and foresake your Father. Jesus said “fear not! Stand firm and watch your deliverance”.
I assume that we are all supposed to think these statistics of extinction are a bad thing. I'm not sure God does. In fact, I'd be willing to bet he sees it as a matter of house cleaning. I noted that the first chart indicated that the "Vineyard" was growing quite nicely. Just a guess, but I think it has to do with the fact that they still actually believe something. Oh, my!
The C of E I have been watching some videos of services and prayers to see how the other side worships. There seems to be an environmentalist focus and less on Christ. Could the Anglicans turn into druids? Seems to be changing. I suppose that is the world.
Certainly, the 'environmental' and the LGBT+ focus in some of the Anglican Churches IS NOTHING SHORT OF PAGANISM. But the vast majority of Anglican worshippers DO NOT ACCEPT PAGANISM. They are thus REFERRING BACK TO THE BIBLE in order to resolve the extreme CONFUSION left in their minds by academic and Episcopal teaching in ENGLAND. GAFCON is a far better representation of TRUE anglicanism, and is leading a REVIVAL in the Anglican Confession.
Thank you for this. Time will tell. Growth of churches due to popular appeal may be one thing, but authenticity is another. As a variation on a popular scripture, I admit that I responded to loud happy clappy trance inducing music, but I thought, perhaps God isn't in the happy clappy trance-inducing music, I listened to authoritative exhortations from oh so wise speakers in the crowded meeting halls, but I could see God wasn't in the authoritative exhortations in the crowded meeting halls; then I saw the elders emerge from their flashy cars, with their happy smiling families, impervious to the ordinary dirt that clung irritatingly to the rest of us, and I thought, God must be in this thing after all
Not to sound like the bad guy, but the old way of doing “church” and the matter of the pastor becoming a politician are some of the biggest reasons why the church is on the decline. Church isn’t the building, but the people, and if the people aren’t experiencing God in the church collective, they’ll go elsewhere. It’s not a trend for people to leave, but an actual Exodus that’s happening, and for good reason. The Lord has left the church and is meeting people where they are, in real time. It’s not a bad thing at all that the ways of old are dying, but a sign that the Spirit of God is on the move. And we, as believers, need to have our hearts ready for where He’s taking us next. Be blessed, children of God.
Hi Dan, another great job! Thanks. I’m aware that maybe no one will let you know about the end of your video. There’s an error in editing around 14th minute… If I were you I would correct it. Of course, it’s up to you. God bless. 😀🙏
Not being from England, perhaps I don't understand the intricacies involved. Wouldn't being an established church prop up CoE longer than a similarly situated independent church?
I am a new Christian man in my early 20s and I have been attending a CofE church for a couple months now. I only recently learned about their more liberal attitudes. I have decided to try Roman Catholic next and I can't help but wonder why the Roman catholic church is declining as I believe they are a very traditional Church.
From a Roman catholic now spiritually sitting at the last pew before the exit: The Roman Catholic Church has the worst of 2 worlds: The worst of the liberal Churches methodology and the worst of the Evangelicals literal inerrant Bible theology!... Join that together with a huge pedophile scandals among their highest rank leaders and you have the figure. The rest of the more general Christian figure you can take out of my own main comment above or below depending on from and how you're reading. Have a nice day!...
It's because Roman Catholicism is very strict n pushes a sacramental life of works. It's easy n feel natural if you are born into it, but they don't evangelise new believers n they have unbiblical practices. Where does it talk about intercessive prayer to saints, using Mary as a Mediator and Confession to a Priest in the bible?? Also heavy use of Latin when bible was written in Greek first.
It might be officially traditional, but in Europe it's as plagued by modernism as the Church of England. If the English bishops were allowed to follow whatever they want rather than having to deal with Catholics from other countries they wouldn't be very different. Just see the works of people like Fr James Martin or the people at Commonweal, etc to see how some modernist Catholics behave. Channels by trad Catholics have a million examples as well. I'm in a catholic country and I'd be shocked if even 30% of nominal "Catholics" were actual Catholics, even among churchgoers.
@@danmillar9582 You are 60 years out of date. There is no ‘heavy use’ of Latin in Roman Catholicism. Those very rare churches where the traditional Latin mass is celebrated need special permission to do so. Apart from that, everything in the Roman Catholic church in the English-speaking world is conducted in English (unless there is some special celebration in a minority language, e.g. Welsh, Scots Gaelic). The original Latin bible (the ‘Vulgate’) - which is no longer in use by Roman Catholics - was translated from the original Hebrew (Old Testament) and Greek (New Testament). Nowadays, Roman Catholics read the Bible in the vernacular, i.e. whatever their own language is.
Revelation 2:5 Remember the height from which you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lamp stand from its place.
Thing is - where is the growth in Evangelical churches coming from though? I've a sneaking suspicion its with ex-members legacy denomination churches who have become fed up with their churches becoming more wishy washy and liberal..
Theological liberalism came into English churches in about the1870s. That is when the decline began. The great Baptist preacher CH Spurgeon pulled his 6000 strong church out of the Baptist Union in the 1880s on this account. All other historical denominations have paid the price since. The whole of the UK has seen moral decline as a consequence.
How can any Church of Jesus Christ our Lord, perform or bless same sex marriages, it is against the will of the Lord. You cannot forget that we who believe in the Lord Jesus, including archbishops etc. etc, are all children of God and members of his Church. We cannot change the rules of the Lord God, only he can do that and anyone who tries to do it instead of him, will suffer the consequences. Thanks be to God.
Perhaps the first remedy is to elect a new Archbishop of Canterbury. He is clearly not up to the job, especially departing from scripture and giving into the LGBTQIKGB and all the other woke nonsense. Then when the public know what the church stands for, we can now forward and regain ground.
I would think the smaller groups such as the methodists,United reform and the unitarians,perhaps all the free churches will go first because they have been in decline for a century numerically.having said that a few churches of these denominations are growing but they are very much a minority.
All of my family were raised as catholics. None pracice the religion now. Most people regard religion as a myth. I do not rejoice at this. If there is a God, he refuses to speak to me. 😢😢
There is a fundamental conflict between secular morality and Christian morality. Most you people today believe in Gay rights, sex before marriage etc.These things are considered sinful by Christianity. How do you reconcile the two?
I don't agree that Christians should be waiting for a "Movement of God" hasn't he already equipped his church for every good work? I recall the Great Commission, not the Great Suggestion.
mr Dan, are you trying to build a corporation, or are you trying to build a community? familial communities do not succeed if they exceed 150 members; communities should be small and local, and the focus should be on the needs of the community; the focus should not be on some ancient mythology; you need to think outside your box
You seem to come dangerously close to saying that the theological positions that a church adopts ought to be chosen with a view to whether they will help the church grow. This seems like a perverse conclusion for anyone who professes to be a Christian to adopt; surely the stances you take ought to be guided first and foremost by what you judge to be ethically correct, rather than whether they happen to be popular. However, even if you do think of it mostly in terms of growth you ought to be aware that there are limits to growth. A small sect which espouses a fundamentalist form of Christianity can easily double in size several times over, but is unlikely to ever become a major denomination. In a setting which is increasingly aggressively secular, an organisation with a name like "the Redeemed Church of God" is going to alienate many people before they've even had a chance to do any evangelism.
This is really sad because places of worship of the one and only true God shouldn't get or be like this as it isn't something that brings what we Gods people should bring the Lord Jesus which is Glory to his name
While I may to point my questions on what this Reverend says; it's worth to maintain here a high conversation level, sir, please. At least he's maintaining this as a free barely moderated healthy conversation place well and alive, accepting all perspectives to come in, which is rare this days across the spectrum. Congrats Rev. Dan!... May the Lord to Bless you!... So now; on that those ones destroying the Church are those rad trads whom can't accept a single 1% different word than really the one of themselves that we may agree! The Bible supports slavery on more than an event, even on the way St. Stephen was chosen as the first Church's Deacon on the Book of the Acts of the Apostles!... And today nobody in the Church will to read that literally!... So; now imagine that Biology would to discover that being gay is a genetic sort of thing. How would those rad trads to solve the issue?... Sadly the Church has become a open rink for some "sex cult" like groups to battle inside... And on the mainstream, most of us are absolutely tired of that. No surprise the current situation. As per the extinction of the "liberal" Churches; I believe they'll never die. There will be always some whom will wish to have a safe place for a moderate preaching of the Word of the Lord. Pick currently PECUSA-TEC Washington National Cathedral for example: They're not doing that bad despite being the most liberal they can be!... And I believe they'll to have a next generation. Look at their youth choirs for an instance... Have a nice day!...
Denominations are and expression of interpretation and are therefore irrelevant if we realise that theism (including all religions) is a dying phenomenon, our collective finger will be much closer to reality.
Lol, aren't you guys supposed to have an omnipotent superbeing in your corner? Maybe his plan is for you to follow Islam? That seems to be going gangbusters in the UK these days.
I'm currently a member and elder in the Church of Scotland, and we are in a worse position than the CoE with the direction it has gone. My congregation and Minister are Conservative fortunately. I am currently half way through a theology degree with hopes to go into ministry, God willing, and let's just say I haven’t started any process with the Church of Scotland ordination yet, still praying about it, if I will or not. My fear is if we all leave the CoS it will only get worse, and no congregation would hear the Gospel preached. We must remember though, There will always be a Church in Scotland and England, it just may not be the CoS and CoE.
I have had much of my life in the methodist church, and consider it "gone with the wind" or the spirit of the times - so I am out. They have a choise, to follow the word of God ord the word of the culture. We can clearly see what has been chosen.
I believe you would acheive more accuracy about UK relationships with God by researching those who have made personal choice following conviction if they follow Jesus; read the Bible; Baptism as believers; and what they believe about Darwinism ie Did God Create or did it all spontaneously occur over billions of years. This will give you a very real reflection of what British people believe irrespective of political beliefs.
Over 1 in 10 Catholic priests in England are former Anglican clergy. The Catholic Church will not dissapear because Jesus Christ does not break his promises. When society crumbles She will be there, as she always has, picking up the pieces and rebuilding the reign of Jesus Christ. To whom else can we go?
That all depends on how you define denomination. FIEC is an organisational grouping of churches with a common doctrinal statement (and presumably some kind of mechanism for deciding what is in the statement and expelling churches which depart from it0, and so would fall under most definitions of denomination. New Frontiers would be another case which doesn't fit every definition. They are a relational, rather than organisational, grouping of churches (and in the last decade or so have really been an umbrella group for several different groupings of churches), though unlike FIEC the different "spheres" within New Frontiers do have authority structures.
Starting to discover church (30s here) after leaving in my teens. CofE so far..but would like a more pro lgbt feeling. I think anyone can love god and resonate with Jesus's message despite their attraction
the problem is everyone is running scared of cultural shift, wanting to live in a bubble and not wanting to change. but the thing is when change happens because of cultural shift, there is bound to be shrinkage because it has to happen to make way for the new generation of Christians . by the way every church is evangelical and Christian is too. There is more than one way to be evangelical. evangelize smart not hard . that is the way forward. my church is an old denomination and it grows more and more every day because it is progressive. people have free will and choice. the church does not hold anyone captive. every one is there through their own choice and free will. they are free to stay or they are free to go.
Evangelical is a term that refers to a specific variety of Christianity, not a catch-all term. Congregations that embrace liberal / progressive theology are clearly not part of the Evangelical tradition in the same way that Protestants are not part of the Roman Catholic tradition (in both cases one group have some historical roots in the other, but their tradition is defined in part as an explicit rejection of the defining characteristics of that other tradition). The statistics show that theologically liberal/progressive denominations and congregations are mostly in decline, whilst theologically Evangelical ones are mostly not. This is othing to do with free will and choice, this is to do with the way those two theologies and practices impact growth. Evangelical churches do place a high priority on evangelism, and have rather more obvious differences with the general culture. Liberal/Progressive churches rarely do much in the way of active evangelism, generally downplay or reject the truth that Christ is the only way to salvation, and tend to embrace secular culture rather than rejecting those parts of it that are in conflict with scripture. When liberal/progressive congregations do experience conversion or transfer growth (as opposed to growth through having children who stay in the church as adults) it is usually from people who have become disillusioned with more conservative forms of Christianity but who are not willing to throw out the entire faith.
@@stephengray1344 i embraced the way jesus. to embrace jesus is to live. christianity is a way of life not a tool to use to bash people and to bash people is bullyibng and to bully some one is a sin so there for you have broken the first and second commandment that are the two most important commandments. god bless you. ill be praying for you
@@jamiecooke6230 I'm extremely confused by your reply to me. There is nothing in my comment that constitutes bashing or bullying. I simply pointed out what the word Evangelical actually means and what the evidence shows about the impact of liberal/progressive theology on church growth. Neither point breaks the first commandment (worship no God but YHWH), or the second commandment (don't worship idols). Could you possibly rephrase your point in a way that helps me understand it?
I believe Churches that leave the teachings of the bible to try and please the woke will fail 1st and I see GAFCON move will see Methodist will grow and I hope Presbyterian will repent and go back to the teachings only. Same as the Archbishop Justin Welby needs to repent and move the Church back to teach the words of God as he has recorded in the Bible.
I have been a Roman Catholic for 80yrs. We are not what anyone would call liberal. The numbers are in real decline. I don't think your conclusion is congruent with the facts
Christ only founded ONE church ... the One, Holy, Catholic Church. He said to St. Peter "Upon this Rock (the Roman Catholic Church) I will build my Church and the Gates of Hell shall not prevail against it. All other 'churches' are not of God's making.
Not declining where people follow the bible, and whether they like the teaching or not they don’t change the bible truths some of which I don’t like very much but it’s there written down and it’s a choice.
I clicked on one of these a while ago and now it keeps being recommended to me. Please get away from your laptop and back to your work in the parish. I am sure your flock will be glad, as will the people paying your stipend.
Why would we expect God to bless denominations that are in disobedience to His Word. On the other hand some other growing groups mentioned are perhaps even more dangerous as they mix truth with error. Specifically the new 'Apostles' and Prophets leading many astray with 'extra biblical revelations'. Not to mention the disrespect they show to the Holy Spirit.
God is NOT a God of Denomination , When the " Church leadership " takes God out , become Liberal / Progressive then they decline . I agree with this report , though the time they ALL disappear ( 2040 etc ) . The CoE does have " growing churches " , they are teaching / preaching the WORD OF GOD . I agree with most analysis .
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One of the saddest verses in the Bible is written of Samson - 'And he knew not that the Lord had departed from him.' (Judges 16:20) Unfortunately this statement can also be said of (much) of the western church today...
I’m 28, and converted to Church of England to Roman Catholic. I think the biggest issue is everyone is worried about the decline in member, but so many older Christians would rather die then spread the gospel. If it is to change, we all have to talk to our friends and family to make them come. Also, young people are interested in conservative church, listen up Church of England!
I went to Sunday school in a methodist church and my children were baptised in one. Now ALL the local ones have closed and I found it very sad, but if they have departed from the word of God, Jesus himself said in a parable that the light would be taken from the and given to another
I'm a Baptist by conviction and I concur that though we are not doing as badly as most of the older denominations, we are beginning to struggle. Progressive ideology is beginning to creep in, and as you rightly say, it isn't going to reverse any decline. Its very worrying and we need to move now to keep it from taking over.
I am an elder in the Church of Scotland, and agree that the picture is one of slow but steady decline. Much of this is because, sadly, older members are dying off and it is hard to engage younger people with he Gospel (not least because of the deplorable state of religious education). But also, if churches turn their back on settled biblical doctrine and are guided by the "spirit of the age" rather than the Holy Spirit, they are committing slow suicide. God is not mocked, and reckoning will follow.
With all due respect @Rev Dan
A church dies when there is an absence of spiritual discipline
Liberalism will corrupt the bride of the Lord
An accurate assessment.
Throughout the history of the true church, reformation always leads to apostasy of the existing order and a split where the true believers are forced out because they are labeled heretics and accused of dividing the church.
The actual cause is those who refuse to abide in the Word and demand others conform to their anti-christian beliefs.
A church dies when there is an absence of Jesus Christ! Period!
@@psalmistinprogress9089 I would say anti-Christ beliefs rather than anti-christian ❤ When He and His Word become distorted into how we think things should be we see a move away from Truth and into a self life. We choose to become like gods. Genesis shows this clearly when the serpent sad to Eve, "Did God REALLY say etc" and "If you eat of this fruit you will be like gods."
As soon as we step outside the Paradigm of God's order we head down the wide and slippery slope of becoming idolaters with ourselves as a self proclaimed god, even if it is cloaked in some other words.
The latest are words like, influencer, environmentalist, progressive, inclusive, etc but I thank God that are men and women who hold firmly to the Truth of God and His Word and acknowledge, teach and proclaim Jesus Christ as Lord and ONLY Saviour of our souls and only intermediary to the Father ❤
Over 1 in 10 Catholic priests in England are former Anglican clergy. The Catholic Church will not dissapear because Jesus Christ does not break his promises. When society crumbles She will be there, as she always has, picking up the pieces and rebuilding the reign of Jesus Christ. To whom else can we go?
I'm an evangelical vicar in the Church in Wales, and this is very clear from here. The independents/Congregational and Calvinistic Methodist/Prebyterian and the Church in Wales have all aggressively pursued a theologically liberal agenda and will cease to exist soon. Rural Wales does not attract much ministry from Elim or Vineyard and denominational leaders are driving the nation into darkness. Arglwydd truguha, Lord have mercy!
Amen 🙏
I moved from a C of E church to a Pentecostal church five years ago, my new church is flourishing and my old C of E church is dying. The Pentecostal church is full of life because it appeals to young people, it’s a simple formula of great worship, a strong word of God delivered by strong church leaders who are faithful to scripture, and also great fellowship. The format rarely changes because it suits the modern lives of the congregation, the simplicity of the format makes it much more accessible to new Christians who are the future of the church. I pray for the C of E because it is the tradition that I grew up with but it has made a wrong turn with progressivism that only adds confusion to those seeking spiritual guidance.
I go to a Pentecostal church ,we're flourishing . We have outreach to young people . We have a prayer space in the local schools.
Very well said. 👊
Do you believe in the Nicæan Decree ?
@@dimitriosvlissides5781 we believe in the trinity of Father, son and holy spirit. Also, baptism by water.
@@danknighton3286 that does not answer my question
Also what is the Hypostasis of Jesus CHRISTOS
I really don’t see King Charles attracting anyone to the church he is technically head of.
@Geraldine Burden - and the Pope is His Vicar on Earth
@@marcokite fraid not
@Geraldine Burden fair enough. However it does state the monarch has the surprise authority over all persons in matters ecclesiastical and civil… Kinda throws people.
@Geraldine Burden And yet the Queen signed acts that clearly are against God's ordinances.
The pope is not a vicar
A quotation from "Thoughts Upon Methodism" by John Wesley, written near the end of his life in 1786:
'I am not afraid that the people called Methodists should ever cease to exist either in Europe or America. But I am afraid lest they should only exist as a dead sect, having the form of religion without the power. And this undoubtedly will be the case unless they hold fast both the doctrine, spirit, and discipline with which they first set out.'
Fascinating stuff. As the son and brother evangelical CofE clergymen, who grew up in the CofE and who then became a member of the Methodist Church 20 years ago when I moved to get married, this resonates strongly. British Methodism is run by fundamentalist liberals. Some evangelical ministers have been forced out of Methodism over their refusal to accept ssm. Very sadly it is now in full collapse. I left last year and now worship with the Wesleyan Reform Union, a small evangelical Wesleyan denomination. Not sure I agree about worship styles. They can be just as worldly as doctrine - even in evangelical churches! And Orthodox churches are growing in this country - they don't give an inch on their liturgy. Shallow and doctrinally weak worship is often indicative of shallow discipleship: it might attract a crowd for a while but it's unlikely to last.
I go to WR too - simple, plain, word-of-Christ-based services, and some smashing hymns! Not many youngsters though, still. Recently, some methodists have joined us from the next village and their chapel is now closed, sadly.
Interesting video but the problem is that all the emphasis is on decline. Yes there is serious decline but how much of that is due to the infiltration of liberal/rationalist theology which gives no hope and fundamentally denies the Gospel. As a former Anglican ministering in a large parish, the attendance was small. One has only got yo look at the leadership in the Anglican church at the present time and there is a large part of the problem. I am now by the Grace of God, a Catholic priest. I am officially retired but attached to a large city parish where the weekly attendance is in the region of 500, with many young families. We have a much larger Sunday attendance than the local Anglican Cathedral, and our church is just one of 6 Catholic parishes in the city.
Yes there are problems due to a lack of priests at the moment, but we must never forget that the Lord Himself said, "I will build my Church and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it". We need to take seriously the words of the Lord as recorded in 2Chron 7:14, "If my people who are called by by name, humble themselves, and pray and seek my face. and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land".
Thank you for bringing this - a real eye opener! God will shut down a thriving church in less time than that if He chooses to do so. I belonged to an amazing, thriving church in the 70s and 80s. Then we came under the influence of a different church and our interpretation of various verses changed quickly. I have never seen a church empty so quickly. God showed us to leave in a very direct way, and the numbers halved from week to week. But there were some really strong Christians in that church, many of whom went on to become elders and leaders elsewhere. A forecast would never have shown such a thing happening.
Don't shoot the messenger! Dan is merely relaying the interesting forecasts provided by these reports into the decline of most Churches in the UK. I have to say, I was surprised that the CofE is not quite as bad as many others!
I attend a wonderful New Frontiers church where the Word of God is faithfully proclaimed week by week. It is full of young families and we enjoy Godly Spirit filled worship. As an older person I am loving it!
Good to hear it. Just be aware of the devil's ploys - he loves to cause disruption and chaos in the true church of God. I've seen it happen before. As the Bible says - the devil is the father of lies, and divisions often start with someone telling lies about someone else. If anyone says something derogatory about another person, ask yourself: "Is it True? Is it Necessary? Is it Kind?"
I am a Roman Catholic.I have seen changes in the Roman Catholic Church.
We need more Men to enter the Catholic Priesthood,or Churches will close.
How about the Mormons and the JW’s.How are they doing in the UK.
LDS has 26% decline. JW’s have a low retention rate.
I go to an Elim church ,we abide by the word of God. We are flourishing,expecially with the young .
Which ' word of God ' Barbara ?
@@colvinator1611 all of the word of God ,the Bible is the word of God ,so sad you didn't know that but now you do
Very interesting - in the CoE is there any evidence that ordaining women as vicars and bishops did anything to reverse the trend? I would suspect that the reverse is the case.
Lots of food for thought here. As a Catholic I don't think our church will ever die out, but people falling away is a problem and we could lose many of the smaller churches and mass centres, leaving many souls behind. Too many in the hierarchy seem happy to manage decline. Perhaps they should watch this video.
It might not die out in the world but it's very possible for it to die out in the UK specifically.
Surely! And same should to be said of the CofE and regular (non GAFCON) Anglicanism. Why? There will always to be those moderate ones whom wish for a moderate way of preaching the word of the Lord!.... Of course, and as another Catholic, I agree with you that most of our leaders are happy enough to manage the decline on the west, on both "B16" or "Francis" sides of the pond, sadly!...
@@nunagoras It's laughable that y'all paint the loss of ground in the west to sexual immorality. That's the hypocricy; there are many other sins that are equally important. . Regardless, same sex attraction isn't merely erotic attraction. You have an unconscious bias.
Within the Catholic Church in Britain, those places that offer the Latin Mass are all doing well. The congregation at the church that I attend is growing steadily, and much of the growth is amongst those who attend the Latin Mass.
I am not sure how to read the graph, as my Catholic Church of Roman Rite here in the UK is concerned. Catholic churches are not too empty (definitely fuller than CofE), and Catholic schools do have a great reputation and overall they keep Catholicism well alive through high-quality education. That said, I don't even care too much: I trust what Jesus said: "Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it” (Matt. 16:18). God bless.
If those bishops don't wake up to themselves, it will be the C of E unfortunately. Is it any wonder a lot of reverends are signing up to GAFCON, so to speak.
GAFCON represents an AWAKENING, a REVIVAL, while the politically motivated English Bishops ARE dying on their rotten feet! Representing so large a Church as the Anglican Communion only produces a MEANINGLESS 'mean' position - quite useless.
Really interesting video Dan, it's almost like Churches that actually believe in God are being blessed by Him 🙂. Here in Scotland the Baptist Union of Scotland tends to be more evangelical than BUGB, we are not content to manage decline and have a programme of church planting planned to hopefully reverse the trend DV.
I'm a CoS Minister, and I can tell you that the CoS is only about 5 years from imploding.
We only have a handful of biggish Churches (e.g. 180-220) and we don't have enough folk to recreate an HTB type revitalisation.
There are pockets of growth, but about 90% of congregations are declining, and many - even in big towns and cities - have no kids and virtually no one under 60.
The CoS has just said that it will start having to pay stipends & salaries out of reserves by 2026/2027 as they fully expect decline to continue, or even accelerate when older folk die, which arent being even close to being replaced by conversions or new children. In last few years, the numbers of adults joining the church (professing faith) has averaged under 1 per congregation, with many not having a new convert for a decade.
Im in my 30's. I dont expect the CoS to be around beyond perhaps 80-100 congregations (down from 1000) within 15 years because of our much older demographic - most of whom wont be around to volunteer, give or attend by 2040.
I should say that most of the bigger churches or ones that are stable/growing are clearly the evangelical ones. However, many of our stronger evangelical ones have left the CoS or split in past 10-15 years over SSM issue. Most of them are thriving as independents or in the Free Church, and some have even gone on to plant new churches.
Woke ministers worshipping politics and flesh instead of God and love.
Hi Andrew. As Member of the CoS, I'm in full agreement with your comments. How can we possibly expect God to bless a denomination in disobedience to the Word. The FCoS have/are benefitting from the Collapse of the CoS which is fine if the Gospel is being preached. However, neo charismatic movements with their Apostles and Prophets and subtle truth mixed with error preaching ethos seem to be growing at a significantly fast rate. This I also find concerning.
@@armorrison91 Over 1 in 10 Catholic priests in England are former Anglican clergy. The Catholic Church will not dissapear because Jesus Christ does not break his promises. When society crumbles She will be there, as she always has, picking up the pieces and rebuilding the reign of Jesus Christ. To whom else can we go?
The church where my father was baptised is now a thriving mosque overflowing with happy young people. Isn't this the most likely future?
Interesting analysis, Rev. Dan. I have attended some of the churches that are not in decline, but sometimes they are a bit nutty. May be I am being vague, but they sometimes seem to be of another spirit and I am not sure if it is always the Holy Spirit. I remember going to one of these churches and the lady in the next pew fell backwards. I had thought that she was have an epileptic seizure. Immediately people rushed to her, but not to help her. They want some of her vibes. So there she was between the next pew and the kneeler and being a big lady, could not get out. No one want to help her up as all seemed to want her vibes. I left as this was too much for me. I think that the church was billing itself as charismatic Anglican. I like Prayer Book worship and the old hymns. Why cannot that be also a way for God to reach people, even old farts like me?
It's tough for liberal-leaning churches to convert people (most people) who are liberal-minded to Christianity now, as it's a damaged/toxic brand among such groups. You get left with an older demographic there which accelerates decline. Theology matters little to growth, aside from whether there's a willingness to bring people in. Some are better than others. CofE has been in decline for over a hundred years. The decline is a demographic issue. People have fewer children, and living longer means older single congregants. I attend an evangelical church, not because I'm an evangelical, but because I have friends/networks there. I'm liberal because I think that's where the scholarship is.
The people who want the doctrine to change aren’t interesting in joining anyway so what is the point of changing it? If doctrine changes those inside who have been warming the pews will find the church irrelevant.
I found this video interesting. I am a member of the Church of England, and a vicar. I am also a former NHS statistician. I am having problems correlating the statistics of 3% annual decline (by which I assume you mean reductions in membership or electoral roll for CofE) with a date of 2050 for the denomination to cease to exist.
My calculations suggest that the CofE will be only 40% of the present size, IF (and it is a big IF) present patterns continue for another 30 years until say 2053. They may not do so (as you acknowledge in the video) but if they do I do not think that the CofE would no longer be viable in that case, because it would still number around 400,000 people. It is likely that it would mainly be centred in urban centres, and possibly more balanced towards the evangelical side of the spectrum, but still viable.
For financial reasons there would be less hierarchy and admin (good things!) and ministry would be mixed mode (part stipend part secular employment) but that is a very different thing from ceasing to exist. More lay leadership and worker priests as the norm would probably be implied.
To take a case in point, about 15% of the population of England live in London. So 15% of the 400,000 Church of England members would be in London. That is 60,000 or nearly 2,000 in each of the 33 London Boroughs (you can exclude the City of London as so few people live there). The is roughly equivalent to about 10 larger churches or 20 smaller ones per borough. For sure that is a lot smaller than now, but it is far from a point of collapse.
When the CofE goes into survival mode the clergy would probably become entirely non-stipendiary. I was raised Episcopalian [USA] and considered becoming Anglican Catholic but decided it was ridiculous to be driving 20 miles just to go to communion. So I tried being Catholic but ended up hating it. The Catholic church is most definitely in severe decline as well. Then I read The Jesus Mysteries by Freke & Gandy not to mention also The Pagan Christ by Harpur, a former Anglican cleric. So I became a Buddhist. To me Buddhism is the ultimate do-it-yourself religion. Post pandemic I no longer believe in group meetings.
@@marcmeinzer8859 Have you read much on Eastern Orthodoxy? It will be make more sense to you with a Buddhist background. Highly recommended :)
@@edvenify Yes, I tried being Eastern Orthodox for a couple of years and have gone on vocations retreats to the local Greek Orthodox monastery or St. Gregory Palamas Skete, Hayesville, Ohio. In retrospect I like Orthodoxy better than either Catholicism or Anglicanism but opted for Pure Land/Ch’an Buddhism. I’m a do-it-yourself Buddhist now as there are very few temples around here and since the pandemic I’m not a big fan of group activities where you’re sitting around breathing everyone else’s air for a couple of hours.
@@marcmeinzer8859 If it makes you happy... I wouldn't be able to live without community and physical proximity to others. Or with that kind of fear.
@@edvenify I don’t mind being around people when I’m shopping but I don’t like meetings. I also don’t like group meditation.
I don't understand how Archbishop Welby is still able to proceed with the coronation. If he has been found to be lying how can he anoint the king or receive his oath?
as Anglican orders are invalid only a Catholic or Orthodox priest/bishop can validly consecrate
The articles provide for a bad minister still imparting valid sacraments.
I’m more concerned about the new King being an unbeliever when he is the ‘head of the Church of England’.
@@Booger414 You’re right. I’ve been concerned about that in a church I recently attended (before I moved away from the area). One of my friends who is more familiar with the 39 Articles than I am pointed out to me that provision. in a way,
Do you think the Bill to dissolve church of england will happen? Been spoken off a few times over the years but has been doing the rounds again recently.
Traditional Latin Mass Churches, that remain faithful to Scripture & Traditional, are also growing eg. ICKSP.
Just to note im an elderly person myself and what ive written ive practiced in my life my folks in particular taught us to do his example showed us how to live out your faith
There is nothing quite like stating the obvious. However, the true church is not a matter of numbers. Just because something draws more people doesn't mean it is right. Likewise, just because people leave something doesn't mean it is wrong. Standing on the word of God is the key, not traditions or entertainment.
Thank you, Rev. Dan. I have read the documents you discuss, posted by Church Growth Modelling; and I've come across a number of online discussions of their conclusions. So far, yours is the most probing and lucid of these. I'm not in a position to assess the validity of the documents' methodology; but everything said suggests that they are broadly solid in their empirical research. That said, the Church of England (in which I am a lay minister, a Reader) is in an odd position, because of the comparative independence of the parish. I could say much more, but will leave it there.
Thanks again, Rev. Dan.
It is so nice reading the comments seeing a young person mention what is lacking that is people going out taking the Gospel to the people not so much speaking although that is vital actions speak louder then words go and take a needy person clothing food just visit a lonely person let people know this way Jesus loves them whilst doing this smile and say Jesus loves you tell them this and say im praying for you
How much of the growth/decline is transfer of people from old denominations to New? How much of the growth is from new converts? How much of the decline is from people giving up church attendance completely and how much from aged attendees literally dying out?
I do not want the Church of England to go. I want the Church of England to stay with the Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareth. Amen Alleluia. Love in Christ from Jesus and Sylvia Nazareth.
God doesn't need us, we need God.
Never stop loving our Creator!! Jesus said “if they persecute me they will persecute you too”.
These are end times and Jesus kingdom will come battle with Satan and all his evil.
“Unless those days are cut short no flesh will be saved”.
Now is not the time to be scared and foresake your Father.
Jesus said “fear not! Stand firm and watch your deliverance”.
I assume that we are all supposed to think these statistics of extinction are a bad thing. I'm not sure God does. In fact, I'd be willing to bet he sees it as a matter of house cleaning. I noted that the first chart indicated that the "Vineyard" was growing quite nicely. Just a guess, but I think it has to do with the fact that they still actually believe something. Oh, my!
Good news then as the evidence for a god existing is zero. Forget religion, just live in peace with one another. Simple.
The C of E I have been watching some videos of services and prayers to see how the other side worships. There seems to be an environmentalist focus and less on Christ. Could the Anglicans turn into druids? Seems to be changing. I suppose that is the world.
Plain as day, they have gone woke.
Certainly, the 'environmental' and the LGBT+ focus in some of the Anglican Churches IS NOTHING SHORT OF PAGANISM. But the vast majority of Anglican worshippers DO NOT ACCEPT PAGANISM. They are thus REFERRING BACK TO THE BIBLE in order to resolve the extreme CONFUSION left in their minds by academic and Episcopal teaching in ENGLAND. GAFCON is a far better representation of TRUE anglicanism, and is leading a REVIVAL in the Anglican Confession.
@@brianmorris8045 they are not woke
Thank you for this. Time will tell. Growth of churches due to popular appeal may be one thing, but authenticity is another. As a variation on a popular scripture, I admit that I responded to loud happy clappy trance inducing music, but I thought, perhaps God isn't in the happy clappy trance-inducing music, I listened to authoritative exhortations from oh so wise speakers in the crowded meeting halls, but I could see God wasn't in the authoritative exhortations in the crowded meeting halls; then I saw the elders emerge from their flashy cars, with their happy smiling families, impervious to the ordinary dirt that clung irritatingly to the rest of us, and I thought, God must be in this thing after all
Maybe we need a multi-planting of GAFCon churches to buck the trend - it might provide some nice buildings
Not to sound like the bad guy, but the old way of doing “church” and the matter of the pastor becoming a politician are some of the biggest reasons why the church is on the decline. Church isn’t the building, but the people, and if the people aren’t experiencing God in the church collective, they’ll go elsewhere. It’s not a trend for people to leave, but an actual Exodus that’s happening, and for good reason. The Lord has left the church and is meeting people where they are, in real time. It’s not a bad thing at all that the ways of old are dying, but a sign that the Spirit of God is on the move. And we, as believers, need to have our hearts ready for where He’s taking us next. Be blessed, children of God.
Hi Dan, another great job! Thanks. I’m aware that maybe no one will let you know about the end of your video. There’s an error in editing around 14th minute… If I were you I would correct it. Of course, it’s up to you. God bless. 😀🙏
Curious left out of the graph is the growth of the Orthodox Church in the UK.
Not being from England, perhaps I don't understand the intricacies involved. Wouldn't being an established church prop up CoE longer than a similarly situated independent church?
I am a new Christian man in my early 20s and I have been attending a CofE church for a couple months now. I only recently learned about their more liberal attitudes. I have decided to try Roman Catholic next and I can't help but wonder why the Roman catholic church is declining as I believe they are a very traditional Church.
It is the sexual abuse by catholic priests and teachers in their schools that has caused much of the decline in recent years.
From a Roman catholic now spiritually sitting at the last pew before the exit: The Roman Catholic Church has the worst of 2 worlds: The worst of the liberal Churches methodology and the worst of the Evangelicals literal inerrant Bible theology!... Join that together with a huge pedophile scandals among their highest rank leaders and you have the figure. The rest of the more general Christian figure you can take out of my own main comment above or below depending on from and how you're reading. Have a nice day!...
It's because Roman Catholicism is very strict n pushes a sacramental life of works.
It's easy n feel natural if you are born into it, but they don't evangelise new believers n they have unbiblical practices.
Where does it talk about intercessive prayer to saints, using Mary as a Mediator and Confession to a Priest in the bible??
Also heavy use of Latin when bible was written in Greek first.
It might be officially traditional, but in Europe it's as plagued by modernism as the Church of England.
If the English bishops were allowed to follow whatever they want rather than having to deal with Catholics from other countries they wouldn't be very different.
Just see the works of people like Fr James Martin or the people at Commonweal, etc to see how some modernist Catholics behave.
Channels by trad Catholics have a million examples as well.
I'm in a catholic country and I'd be shocked if even 30% of nominal "Catholics" were actual Catholics, even among churchgoers.
@@danmillar9582 You are 60 years out of date. There is no ‘heavy use’ of Latin in Roman Catholicism. Those very rare churches where the traditional Latin mass is celebrated need special permission to do so. Apart from that, everything in the Roman Catholic church in the English-speaking world is conducted in English (unless there is some special celebration in a minority language, e.g. Welsh, Scots Gaelic).
The original Latin bible (the ‘Vulgate’) - which is no longer in use by Roman Catholics - was translated from the original Hebrew (Old Testament) and Greek (New Testament). Nowadays, Roman Catholics read the Bible in the vernacular, i.e. whatever their own language is.
Worrying but excellent commentary
Revelation 2:5 Remember the height from which you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lamp stand from its place.
Thing is - where is the growth in Evangelical churches coming from though?
I've a sneaking suspicion its with ex-members legacy denomination churches who have become fed up with their churches becoming more wishy washy and liberal..
Theological liberalism came into English churches in about the1870s. That is when the decline began. The great Baptist preacher CH Spurgeon pulled his 6000 strong church out of the Baptist Union in the 1880s on this account. All other historical denominations have paid the price since. The whole of the UK has seen moral decline as a consequence.
How can any Church of Jesus Christ our Lord, perform or bless same sex marriages, it is against the will of the Lord. You cannot forget that we who believe in the Lord Jesus, including archbishops etc. etc, are all children of God and members of his Church. We cannot change the rules of the Lord God, only he can do that and anyone who tries to do it instead of him, will suffer the consequences. Thanks be to God.
Churches that are standing on the word of God are the churches that will not just survive but also grow........ end of!
I doubt there will be a movement of God in some of these denominations! Could this be the judgement of God?
Could it be the Great Apostasy that Paul talked of in 2 Thessalonians before the Man of Sin is revealed?
Perhaps the first remedy is to elect a new Archbishop of Canterbury. He is clearly not up to the job, especially departing from scripture and giving into the LGBTQIKGB and all the other woke nonsense. Then when the public know what the church stands for, we can now forward and regain ground.
I will not be a part of a church which allows the practice of hearse and dining the truth of God
I would think the smaller groups such as the methodists,United reform and the unitarians,perhaps all the free churches will go first because they have been in decline for a century numerically.having said that a few churches of these denominations are growing but they are very much a minority.
I attend a WRU church and we have been growing significantly since covid restrictions have lifted. We need extra chairs. A good problem to have.
All of my family were raised as catholics. None pracice the religion now. Most people regard religion as a myth. I do not rejoice at this. If there is a God, he refuses to speak to me. 😢😢
There is a fundamental conflict between secular morality and Christian morality. Most you people today believe in Gay rights, sex before marriage etc.These things are considered sinful by Christianity. How do you reconcile the two?
By being tolerant towards others and keeping faith with morality
What about “churn rate”
I don't agree that Christians should be waiting for a "Movement of God" hasn't he already equipped his church for every good work? I recall the Great Commission, not the Great Suggestion.
Many are either going Orthodox or 7 Day Evangelical.C of E was never really Christian in the first place.
C of E has alienated many believers. Gave up on them some years ago.
as long as the net sum in rhe total is in decline i am happy.
mr Dan, are you trying to build a corporation, or are you trying to build a community? familial communities do not succeed if they exceed 150 members; communities should be small and local, and the focus should be on the needs of the community; the focus should not be on some ancient mythology; you need to think outside your box
You seem to come dangerously close to saying that the theological positions that a church adopts ought to be chosen with a view to whether they will help the church grow. This seems like a perverse conclusion for anyone who professes to be a Christian to adopt; surely the stances you take ought to be guided first and foremost by what you judge to be ethically correct, rather than whether they happen to be popular.
However, even if you do think of it mostly in terms of growth you ought to be aware that there are limits to growth. A small sect which espouses a fundamentalist form of Christianity can easily double in size several times over, but is unlikely to ever become a major denomination. In a setting which is increasingly aggressively secular, an organisation with a name like "the Redeemed Church of God" is going to alienate many people before they've even had a chance to do any evangelism.
The fellowships and people who see themselves as non aligned seem to be growing.
All the churches mentioned are experiencing a move of God. For some that move is to close them down.
What is FIEC?
I’m a Lutheran, but it breaks my heart to see what is happening to the Church of England.
CofE / Lutheran...6 of one, half a dozen of the other
This is really sad because places of worship of the one and only true God shouldn't get or be like this as it isn't something that brings what we Gods people should bring the Lord Jesus which is Glory to his name
Left RC for C of Scotland… am now Free Cof S .. that’s where I hear the gospel .. it seems to be growing … definitely growing
Prespyterean teach Calvinist doctrine. Church of Scotland is Heresy
Announcing the end of Christianity is a sin, if say, hypothetically that what your saying is true that would be down to ministers like you.
While I may to point my questions on what this Reverend says; it's worth to maintain here a high conversation level, sir, please. At least he's maintaining this as a free barely moderated healthy conversation place well and alive, accepting all perspectives to come in, which is rare this days across the spectrum. Congrats Rev. Dan!... May the Lord to Bless you!...
So now; on that those ones destroying the Church are those rad trads whom can't accept a single 1% different word than really the one of themselves that we may agree! The Bible supports slavery on more than an event, even on the way St. Stephen was chosen as the first Church's Deacon on the Book of the Acts of the Apostles!... And today nobody in the Church will to read that literally!... So; now imagine that Biology would to discover that being gay is a genetic sort of thing. How would those rad trads to solve the issue?... Sadly the Church has become a open rink for some "sex cult" like groups to battle inside... And on the mainstream, most of us are absolutely tired of that. No surprise the current situation.
As per the extinction of the "liberal" Churches; I believe they'll never die. There will be always some whom will wish to have a safe place for a moderate preaching of the Word of the Lord. Pick currently PECUSA-TEC Washington National Cathedral for example: They're not doing that bad despite being the most liberal they can be!... And I believe they'll to have a next generation. Look at their youth choirs for an instance...
Have a nice day!...
Denominations are and expression of interpretation and are therefore irrelevant if we realise that theism (including all religions) is a dying phenomenon, our collective finger will be much closer to reality.
Old Turkish proverb ,The Trees welcomed the Axe because it had a handle of wood ! ..........
Lol, aren't you guys supposed to have an omnipotent superbeing in your corner? Maybe his plan is for you to follow Islam? That seems to be going gangbusters in the UK these days.
FIEC, New Frontiers and Vineyard are not actually denominations.
The one most with the world, HOW can kids know of Jesus if the church is to scaRED TO OFFEND?? JESUS DID NOT WORRY ABOUT OFFENDING.
I'm currently a member and elder in the Church of Scotland, and we are in a worse position than the CoE with the direction it has gone.
My congregation and Minister are Conservative fortunately. I am currently half way through a theology degree with hopes to go into ministry, God willing, and let's just say I haven’t started any process with the Church of Scotland ordination yet, still praying about it, if I will or not.
My fear is if we all leave the CoS it will only get worse, and no congregation would hear the Gospel preached.
We must remember though, There will always be a Church in Scotland and England, it just may not be the CoS and CoE.
Romans 12:2.
I have had much of my life in the methodist church, and consider it "gone with the wind" or the spirit of the times - so I am out. They have a choise, to follow the word of God ord the word of the culture. We can clearly see what has been chosen.
I believe you would acheive more accuracy about UK relationships with God by researching those who have made personal choice following conviction if they follow Jesus; read the Bible; Baptism as believers; and what they believe about Darwinism ie Did God Create or did it all spontaneously occur over billions of years. This will give you a very real reflection of what British people believe irrespective of political beliefs.
The more the merrier,It’s all baloney!!
It is. There is no evidence of a god existing.
ALL denominations will soon fall! But, the remnant, the body of Christ will be in full swing out front in the background.
Over 1 in 10 Catholic priests in England are former Anglican clergy. The Catholic Church will not dissapear because Jesus Christ does not break his promises. When society crumbles She will be there, as she always has, picking up the pieces and rebuilding the reign of Jesus Christ. To whom else can we go?
FIEC isn't a 'denomination', but instead a group of like-minded Churches. I know - my Church was a member!
That all depends on how you define denomination. FIEC is an organisational grouping of churches with a common doctrinal statement (and presumably some kind of mechanism for deciding what is in the statement and expelling churches which depart from it0, and so would fall under most definitions of denomination. New Frontiers would be another case which doesn't fit every definition. They are a relational, rather than organisational, grouping of churches (and in the last decade or so have really been an umbrella group for several different groupings of churches), though unlike FIEC the different "spheres" within New Frontiers do have authority structures.
Starting to discover church (30s here) after leaving in my teens. CofE so far..but would like a more pro lgbt feeling. I think anyone can love god and resonate with Jesus's message despite their attraction
the problem is everyone is running scared of cultural shift, wanting to live in a bubble and not wanting to change. but the thing is when change happens because of cultural shift, there is bound to be shrinkage because it has to happen to make way for the new generation of Christians . by the way every church is evangelical and Christian is too. There is more than one way to be evangelical. evangelize smart not hard . that is the way forward. my church is an old denomination and it grows more and more every day because it is progressive. people have free will and choice. the church does not hold anyone captive. every one is there through their own choice and free will. they are free to stay or they are free to go.
Evangelical is a term that refers to a specific variety of Christianity, not a catch-all term. Congregations that embrace liberal / progressive theology are clearly not part of the Evangelical tradition in the same way that Protestants are not part of the Roman Catholic tradition (in both cases one group have some historical roots in the other, but their tradition is defined in part as an explicit rejection of the defining characteristics of that other tradition).
The statistics show that theologically liberal/progressive denominations and congregations are mostly in decline, whilst theologically Evangelical ones are mostly not. This is othing to do with free will and choice, this is to do with the way those two theologies and practices impact growth. Evangelical churches do place a high priority on evangelism, and have rather more obvious differences with the general culture. Liberal/Progressive churches rarely do much in the way of active evangelism, generally downplay or reject the truth that Christ is the only way to salvation, and tend to embrace secular culture rather than rejecting those parts of it that are in conflict with scripture. When liberal/progressive congregations do experience conversion or transfer growth (as opposed to growth through having children who stay in the church as adults) it is usually from people who have become disillusioned with more conservative forms of Christianity but who are not willing to throw out the entire faith.
Your church will soon fall completely apart!
@@baronreed8131 i always love a good bit of feed back. thank you. god bless you. ill be praying for you
@@stephengray1344 i embraced the way jesus. to embrace jesus is to live. christianity is a way of life not a tool to use to bash people and to bash people is bullyibng and to bully some one is a sin so there for you have broken the first and second commandment that are the two most important commandments. god bless you. ill be praying for you
@@jamiecooke6230 I'm extremely confused by your reply to me. There is nothing in my comment that constitutes bashing or bullying. I simply pointed out what the word Evangelical actually means and what the evidence shows about the impact of liberal/progressive theology on church growth. Neither point breaks the first commandment (worship no God but YHWH), or the second commandment (don't worship idols). Could you possibly rephrase your point in a way that helps me understand it?
A dying breed, too soft and forgiving, nobody wants to be a door mat.
I believe Churches that leave the teachings of the bible to try and please the woke will fail 1st and I see GAFCON move will see Methodist will grow and I hope Presbyterian will repent and go back to the teachings only. Same as the Archbishop Justin Welby needs to repent and move the Church back to teach the words of God as he has recorded in the Bible.
It’s the compromisers isn’t it?
I have been a Roman Catholic for 80yrs. We are not what anyone would call liberal. The numbers are in real decline. I don't think your conclusion is congruent with the facts
The Pope most definitely is though
Christ only founded ONE church ... the One, Holy, Catholic Church. He said to St. Peter "Upon this Rock (the Roman Catholic Church) I will build my Church and the Gates of Hell shall not prevail against it. All other 'churches' are not of God's making.
Not declining where people follow the bible, and whether they like the teaching or not they don’t change the bible truths some of which I don’t like very much but it’s there written down and it’s a choice.
I’m part of Newfrontiers. So we will survive!! 😂
I clicked on one of these a while ago and now it keeps being recommended to me. Please get away from your laptop and back to your work in the parish. I am sure your flock will be glad, as will the people paying your stipend.
Why would we expect God to bless denominations that are in disobedience to His Word. On the other hand some other growing groups mentioned are perhaps even more dangerous as they mix truth with error. Specifically the new 'Apostles' and Prophets leading many astray with 'extra biblical revelations'. Not to mention the disrespect they show to the Holy Spirit.
God is NOT a God of Denomination , When the " Church leadership " takes God out , become Liberal / Progressive then they decline . I agree with this report , though the time they ALL disappear ( 2040 etc ) . The CoE does have " growing churches " , they are teaching / preaching the WORD OF GOD . I agree with most analysis .
Church of England