I remember religious spokespersons talking about how young people will come to religion as they get older when I was in my twenties. I am now in my sixties and I don't know any of my friends who were non religious in our twenties who have become religious since.
Half the speakers should have come from the humanists, atheists, freethinking community to have the necessary balance - the religious speakers were over represented. Well done Andrew.
aardvarkcustard That’s because non-belief keeps getting lumped I’m as a belief system. What should happen is that each religion should be presented with a non-religious person that has ties with one of the religions there. So a Christian and former Christian. A spiritual person and someone that’s been an atheist their whole life
The reason that atheists, agnostics, etc. get lumped together is mainly because they represent “nonreligion.” While many agnostics self-describe themselves as “spiritual,” it’s obvious that these “nonreligion” groups are not under any form of structure, hierarchy, or shared heritage. Saying “the religious speakers were over represented” is equating that Christians, Muslims, and Hindus should just be grouped together. To quote the humanist guy, “that’s bogus.”
@forsenCD Perhaps, however it does suggest a scepticism for a personal supernatural God as claimed by monotheism. The decline of religious faith is possibly due to critical thinking ,7 education, expansion of you tube and social media, threat of religious ISIS violence, less automatic 'respect ' for preachers, priests et all, resentment of exclusive 'faith schools' , unelected Bishops in the Lords, creationist groups forcing their beliefs in the science class , greater freedom on Sundays for families to enjoy themselves, rather than endlessly worshipping a mythical God.
A script used to parody religion for comedic purposes would need very little modification from the transcript of this discussion. Between the schadenfruede of the Muslim, the mania of the Pentecostal, the mincing words of the Church of England woman and the rabbi, and the frankness of the humanist, all in the face of the interviewers trying to spin the topic...
What I love about these people is they are determined to try and convert people esp. Pentecostal guy. Then the LGBT community are condemned by evangelicals saying they are trying to force their opinions on society. Utter hypocrisy.
@@ant9925 i don't get how anyone can worship someone who drowned everyone, including babies, becasue they were dissidents, and then goes on to kill his own son for a bit of drama, if that's moral it's no wonder people are leaving the church and seeing humanism as more moral.
Depends what you call science, for example black holes are a faith, they have nothing to do with science. They have never been tested in the lab using scientific method and just come from a mathematical garb
Hypatia Atheiria Yes the bible already foresees that view you hold thousands of years before you even existed, people will become deniers of god, lovers of pleasures etc Your denial makes you part of that self fulfilling prophecy.
AMERICA FIRST definition of religion is “the belief in and worship of a God or gods.” How is denying the existence of a god believing in the existence of a god?
So frustrating to watch. People aren't leaving religion because religions aren't cool and hip for young people. People are leaving religion because of the internet. When you have all the knowledge in the world at your fingertips, why on earth would you give a shit about a 2000+ year old book?
Because your knowledge doesn't matter when you die,your knowledge doesn't give you purpose in life,your knowledge doesn't save your soul,because your knowledge will end with your death and all that remains after is what you believed,which has little to do with the brain but more to do with the heart and soul
As the female Rabbi stated, look how diversified we are on this seat. And I add, all claiming to be the one and only true faith. Whereas only Copson pointing out that they can't all be right. And we should be glad that people are not blindly following myths and legends as though they were true. The more you teach people about more religions the less religious they become.
You might as well have a Tooth Fairyist, a Santa Clausist, an Easter Bunnyist, and a Great Pumpkinist battling it out, each claiming that their group is growing the fastest, when all the stats are saying that beliefs in such things is dropping! Extraordinary.
Once upon a time it was believed that the function of the brain was to cool the heart. We no longer believe that. We do not complain that people no longer believe something that is not true? A secular education that one commentator complained is about learning about all beliefs including Humanism not just one belief exlusively.
Wouldn't you like something that does both. Personally, for me, I find science extremely personal and wonderful, quite like a spiritual feeling. ( of course nothing superstitious, I know it's just a reaction causing endorphins to rush through my body translating into the joy of finding something out.) and the other good thing about science - AKA a precise measurement of objective reality - is that it is true whether you believe in it or not. Best regards to you my friend. I'm so glad we get to share this slim slice in the magnificent dance of eternal time.
@@Joleyn-Joy faith != loyalty. It might once have been the same (have no idea) but thats really unimportant as the important part is how the word are commonly used at present.words are just labels on concepts. And they change meaning over time and place. So unless otherwise defined one has to assume common present day interpretation of the word. If not, this has to be defined particularly and the discussion must be in reference to that definition.
@@lolugothackedful first you have to define faith, but common usage is believing stuff that you only have second hand knowledge of, which is not how you buy a car or a phone, let alone base eternity on. i have faith when i drop my keyboard gravity will snatch it away and break it, followers of the christian mythology have faith there is an afterlife, but not any evidence of it. i am certain, they are hoping. i know what i go for.
Science provides clarity, books are books. Spirituality is knowing oneself and reality around us. Christianity leads to beliefs and faith which is personal findings, not universal. Modernization and Science rules fellas.
@@cutesy1631 Vint Cerf ( co inventor of the internet) is quoted as saying that religion and Science aren't irreconcilable - on asking if he was religious he quipped that he was ' *Geek orthodox* ' . Personally ,I'm of the opinion that both can be taught - but by it's very nature , an equilibrium between both subjects would be in a constant state of flux.....
Why is there a decline in religion? Why does no one ever state the obvious answer in these discussions? Surely it because people simply don't believe in the existence of a god these days. Tell me if I'm wrong.
Michael Norfolk they probably know this but in true religious fashion they won't admit it. Thry will just hide behind a fairytale belief that it will work itself out.
More unbalanced content from the (once great) BBC! Where was the atheist on the panel? (See above: "53% of British people have no religion") - and oviously no voice in this discussion...
For the Record 17:30 John Lenon said >> "People always got the image I was an anti-Christ or antireligion. I'm not. I'm a most religious fellow. I was brought up a Christian and I only now understand some of the things that Christ was saying in those parables."
Faith is the deliberate rejection of reality. We obtain our morality from experience, empathy, reality and reason. Morality is situational and not set in stone.
Without God there is no morality; it can only be an illusion at best, and this illusory morality is easily deconstructed and destroyed by anyone with an iota of insight. Without God there is no reason. You only have an infinite regress in searching for ultimate logical axiom(s), upon which your reason can be built.
@@JJ-gq6sf one morality is subjective and chanced person to person. two morals have an evolutionary beginning. hence why we have empathy. without god and religion, humanity would have been better off. most violence, suffering and horrific events all happen from religion. majority of murderers are religious, most rapists are religious, most pedophiles and abusers are religious.
I am concerned with what is TRUE. When all of you religious bobos can agree on ONE system, then I will take a second look. You can not all be correct but you can all be wrong.
God: the longest game of hide and seek in the history of time. Delusions: evil apple trees, talking snakes, woman made from the rib of a man, woman is responsible for the downfall of man because she ate an apple, talking burning bush, sex with an angel and a virgin giving birth, walking on water, turning wine into blood ... . This would be considered insanity and witch craft if so many did not believe it. Get therapy!
You may not believe in God, but God still believes in you. You may not like Christ or Christians, but Christ and Christians still love you. You may not search for God, but God is looking out for you. In time you will come around. You know too much of religion not to have been interested.
@@antye3810 So if you teach a child a language with which to speak are you forcing your own religion ? And if you teah a child your own ethics and values are you forcing your values on the child ? Religion is the language of the soul all humans will at one time or another in their lives ask those difficult questions about life, roght or wrong etc... Only religion can give you direction.
I believe religious doctrine should never be taught in schools. However, I think they should teach about all the religiouns that are currently out there in the world, and about all the dead historical religions that have been, from an achedemic standpoint in order for people to understand what religious beliefe systems are and were about. Give people the tools to make up their own mind and see whare things naturaly go, don't give them insubstantiated doctrine.
Mr Copson didn't call out this Katie Harrison person for appealing to Deism. The question being discussed was "is religion dying out" as in established, organized religion. She cited people who still have beliefs in the immaterial/universe which is a long way from modern monotheism. Deists are only a few steps away from reaching Atheism.
This is what the WEF would like , church leaders are the problem . Youngsters not really aware of Jesus due to lack of parental guidance and Christian teachings
Most English state funded schools are CofE, I can’t afford to send my daughter further afield for a non denominational school, and feel they are brain washing her into religion, as she is getting older she is becoming more suspicious with honest conversations around the table. When she was about 6 she called me a liar for saying I don’t believe there is a god. I had to explain it is my opinion from science and just a general feeling, but what quite affronted when she first said this to me.
I don't want to send my future child to a religious school either. Both because I don't believe in it and because I'm gay, which doesn't normally mesh well with religion anyway.
"We don't class ourselves as a religion." If you believe in god and Jesus, then how can you not be a religion? *religion - noun* *the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods*
@@Razzmatazz99 it's the other way. You don't need to believe in god to be religious. But if you believe in god you are religious. Don't confuse religion with church establishment. It seems to me, you are trying to describe situation when you believe in god, but aren't part of any church, or religious group. This also classifies as religion, because it still contains believe system. There are plenty of people who believe in their own way and don't need any institution to tell them what to do. That's why they put other as an option in questionnaires about religion. On another side, there are religions which don't have the concept og god, but they still have believe in higher pover. They either believe in spirits of the ancestors, or reincarnation and carma, magic, or that everything has it's own spirit. For example buddhism is a religion, but they don't believe in god. Religion of Native Americans believes in spirits but not in god.
One minute in and the religious lady admits it's depressing not enough people believe in her god. The other religionists are in denial. They should be honest and admit they want power to control peoples minds. The problem is of course that believing in gods and magic is a bad argument.
me stupid, me need religion to guide me not take bad decision in life...Me sad, religion help me find a way into happiness so boss can pay me little but me happy cause jesus.
How about interviewing people under the age of 30 for their perspectives? Religion is dying because of hypocrisy, corruption, abuse, shame, and guilt inflicted by religious zealots and relentless attacks on Women, LGBTQ+, and on every other marginalized community by religious extremism.
The holy Prophet Muhammad-e-Mustafa's (SAW) life is dynamic and appealing to people. Don't believe Orientalist propaganda and lies. Learning about the holy Prophet Muhammad-e-Mustafa's (SAW) life from authentic Muslim historians shows a dynamic life that is supreme, amazing, and glorious.
@Ari Onassis-Sugen , Trinity is paganism. The holy and pure Prophet Muhammad-e-Mustafa (SAW) taught true monotheism. Jesus (AS) never said to worship himself. This is propaganda from devients. Truly there is no God but Allah and the holy Prophet Muhammad-e-Mustafa (SAW) is Allah's messenger. If you want to be beloved by Allah then you must follow the holy Prophet Muhammad-e-Mustafa (SAW) as he is the most beloved of Allah who shows the way to Allah.
@@xtremeownage2 Tell me why it would be paganism. There's no sustainable theory to support that. Not philosophically, not theologically and not in historiography.
In Britain. Worldwide atheists are losing their population thanks to the 3rd world. Well will come to your nations and bring back religion. Thank God we have more kids than you!
@@yourlocaldumbass7156 It's true my friend go look up religious demographics 2050. Your grandkids will worship God and atheists will be made to come to prayer or stay home and out of sight. God is so great for letting the secular nations rot from within as we conquer them by the womb.
Bible my arse it’s bs. They drill it into your ears at a young age when your mind doesn’t know what to believe. Then they take advantage of that. And you don’t stop. They use all that atmosphere and bells and songs and other bs to trick the young mind. And as you get older you do or don’t know what to believe. Its all bs. Religion doesn’t truly get you through shit in life. You do.
I know. They wasted so much time with fuckall to show for it. They should have been working on useful things like the economy, science, philosophy etc.
actuly ppl leave cherestianity bcz its FAKE sorry but thats the true , If the priest does not have convincing and logical answers to human questions, how can they trust him and this religion!!
Corona Virus 😄 Can you please try to experience Jesus Christ . Rosary, Adoration of blessed sacrement and word of God will help you to find the truth ...🙏😊🌹
You're wrong. Atheism means lack of religion. Atheists do not believe in anything. Agnosticism is America creation, because it's socialy unacceptable to be Atheist. So Agnostics claim they aren't convinced in believing in God. Basically they're just avoiding to say there is no god. Theism is believe in God, God's, or supernatural entity. There are 3 major types of religion monotheism, polytheism, and beliefs in spirits and higher pover. Monotheists are Christians, Muslims, and Jews. Polytheists are Hindu, and old Greek or Egyptian religions. Witchcraft, shamanism, and religion of native American tribes believe ih hihger pover or spirits.
That's me. I'm a designer and you can really see the makers pattern in nature. Its fascinating. It's much more interesting to observe the natural world and what a devine experience to be here to witness it. Better than sitting inside a building listening to an old man preach on why you should go to hell.
The church doesn't speak to us young people. Their messages seem mostly of hate and control along with their history of abuse of children its hard for us to have faith.
Religion isnt that great becuase it is all about church,traditions and people. Your faith on the other hand is imp and growing if you nurture it. End of the day,you face the after effects of your choices,in life and after it too
Drive to any village on a Sunday, walk in the church, if it's open, there will be only a handfull of parishioners, most of them elderly. The simple reason why people are becoming less religous, is that they think that what they teach is nonsense. Noah's Ark, Virgin birth, the God of the Old Testament, the list is endless. Science can never answer the question is there a God? But it has started to explain the reality of the physical universe we are a part of. But that said, religion will always be with us until we overcome the fear of death.
It's amazing the lengths we go to as kids to please our parents in thought word and deeds . Honour your mother and father . Does that mean to be influenced all our lives from our parents point of view ? NO ! I honour them. ...but as I've grown mentally and physically and through understanding science and the world around me I've developed my own point of view of the religeous and political concepts and ideas . Ive learned to question and answer through using the tools of reasoning and common sense to arrive at conclusions that satisfy me to my entire satisfaction that religion is not for me . I Honour my parents on a human level but not their politics or religion . Yes.....I'm a humanist .
@@JJ-gq6sf From 4 years ago, I can only guess that... I was referring to the religious guests denying religion's steady demise in the UK. The non-religious are now a majority so it's hard to deny. I can understand your response given the lack of clarity in my original comment.
@@Devious_Dave maybe you're aware of this already, but the bible predicted that the Christian message would reach the ends of the earth (Matt 24) but then, before Jesus' return there would be a great falling away from it (2 Thess 2). It seems we have witnessed part 1, and now we're beginning to see part 2.
2 Timothy Godlessness in the Last Days 3 But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. 2 For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, 4 treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people. 6 For among them are those who creep into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and led astray by various passions, 7 always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth.
05:10 Look at the facial expression and body language of the black priest when the Islamic preacher to his left talks about how Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. He says: 'I'm not so sure about that' then looks over to him as if it is a competition! Which of course it is. A competition of who has the most subscribers lol. Absolutely ridiculous how ignorant people can be. Atheism or 'non belief' is the fastest growing as people have access to more knowledge and evidence than ever before so it's funny watching these fools fall behind without realising 😄
@@maxpayne3628 I believe in no God purely because of the fact that there are multiple religions who believe in different gods, yet they declare their God is the only God, that mess is the reason I don’t subscribe to any religious faith, fair play to people who find happiness and security in their faith, but I simply see no use for it in my life
@@schlobster3929 That's not a good reason to believe in no God. That at max , maybe an good reason to disregard Religion. However, I would argue, that one could look at the different religious claims and he can eliminate Religions, for example, there are only two exclusive religions, Christianity and Islam. That's it. Other Religions don't even claim to exclusive.
They've totally overlooked 'pagan' related religions. There's a lot of young people into that now. More so than 20 years ago. I'd say it's more popular than C of E. Doesn't seem to be on the media's radar. And of course there's no category besides 'other' for that on official forms.
The evidence suggests that's not true. The breakdown is 52% non-religious, 12% Anglican, 7% Catholic, 19% 'other Christian', and 9% other religions. Of that other religions, less than 1% belong to New Age religions or forms of neopaganism.
@@HumanistsUK I think you misunderstand non-religious for being atheist. Non-religion can also mean DEIST, Agnostic leaning towards Theist and that's what majority of British are. Agnostic leaning towards Theism.. And religion will definetly not die out in Britain. You people see things in a very direct data form. I see it as a long pattern. It's not atheism is something new. It has been for a long time. Ancient Rome or Greece was also atheistic. As the European economy will fall( it definetly will one day), People will start becoming more Religious Because when the only purpose of your life is to make money and you're not able to make money, then life can get Seriously depressing and Nihilistic.
I’m fascinated that a human can promise another human everlasting life etc etc if they believe in a Jesus character. As a child, I believed in Santa clause, but it was a human that gave me presents.
The real problem is that the growing movement of nonreligious people is educating the religious and exposing them to the lies and fairytales they have been taught. Also young people are not interested in going to boring churches and get enlightenment from the internet and social media. I don't see it as a problem though. I think it's great and wish it would happen quicker.
LETS LOOK AT THE GREAT TRUTHS YOU BELIEVE. Biological activity from non biological activity. No evidence. Consciousness from non consciousness.No evidence. Life from non life. No evidence. Ascensions from non ascensions. No evidence. Something from nothing. No evidence. Yet I am to believe that a universe, possibly a multiverse, came about that way. Order , harmony ,complexity ,purpose and function from chaos and disorder. No evidence. Yet I am to believe a ordered ,harmonious ,purposeful and finely tuned universe caame about from the chaos and disorder of the Big Bang. One and a half million ,macroscopic animal lifeforms named ,categorized and described. There should bew hundreds of examples of anatomy in transition. Fins into appendages, appendages into wings, photo sensitive skin into eyes, scales fraying into feathers and many more. We see none. Yet we must believe that this happened endless numbers of times in the past. What you believe is idiotic and you know it. You sit there like a mindless sheep, accepting whatever you are told by THE NEW ATHEISTS. This is what you think will bring paradise on Earth? Keep the faith atheist. That and a ridiculous story about everything coming from nothing is all you have.
Jacob 1:27 WMB Pure religion and undefiled before our God and Father is this: to visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained by the world. if religion is not important read the verse above
There is no other GOD to be worshipped BUT JEHOVAH THE GOD OF ISRAEL...let stop this denial,HE IS THE CREATOR. Every knee will bow before HIM on the Judgement day either for Heaven or Hell. EVERY tongue on that day will Decree that HE ALONE IS GOD.
I don't think we are ever going to have a real fair result concerning the growth or decline of religion, there are in fairness the non religious who are not really without a belief completely, and ovbcourse like Andrew said it not every Christian is a Christian believer, so for me who is not hear nor there about religion feel that the subject is a complete stalemate due to everyone not being completely honest.
I remember religious spokespersons talking about how young people will come to religion as they get older when I was in my twenties. I am now in my sixties and I don't know any of my friends who were non religious in our twenties who have become religious since.
Half the speakers should have come from the humanists, atheists, freethinking community to have the necessary balance - the religious speakers were over represented. Well done Andrew.
aardvarkcustard That’s because non-belief keeps getting lumped I’m as a belief system. What should happen is that each religion should be presented with a non-religious person that has ties with one of the religions there. So a Christian and former Christian. A spiritual person and someone that’s been an atheist their whole life
The reason that atheists, agnostics, etc. get lumped together is mainly because they represent “nonreligion.” While many agnostics self-describe themselves as “spiritual,” it’s obvious that these “nonreligion” groups are not under any form of structure, hierarchy, or shared heritage.
Saying “the religious speakers were over represented” is equating that Christians, Muslims, and Hindus should just be grouped together. To quote the humanist guy, “that’s bogus.”
Agreed, the Godsquad tend to have the faces of mad smiling assassins. Strange bunch
@forsenCD
In the UK over 50 % of folks have no religion.
Only 3% go to church.
Religion is given too much respect.
@forsenCD
Perhaps, however it does suggest a scepticism for a personal supernatural God as claimed by monotheism.
The decline of religious faith is possibly due to critical thinking ,7 education, expansion of you tube and social media, threat of religious ISIS violence, less automatic 'respect ' for preachers, priests et all, resentment of exclusive 'faith schools' , unelected Bishops in the Lords, creationist groups forcing their beliefs in the science class , greater freedom on Sundays for families to enjoy themselves, rather than endlessly worshipping a mythical God.
Knowledge is killing religion through the internet.
You have got to be kidding .
He never existed God is a human concept.
People are seeing through the indoctrination by their parents and religious authorities
Lifeskeyishappiness exactly
@@patrickparker8417 Triggered?
The force is no longer there, you are no longer forced to converting by the force of a sword or blood magic.
A script used to parody religion for comedic purposes would need very little modification from the transcript of this discussion. Between the schadenfruede of the Muslim, the mania of the Pentecostal, the mincing words of the Church of England woman and the rabbi, and the frankness of the humanist, all in the face of the interviewers trying to spin the topic...
What I love about these people is they are determined to try and convert people esp. Pentecostal guy. Then the LGBT community are condemned by evangelicals saying they are trying to force their opinions on society. Utter hypocrisy.
wilfredspoon
Completely different things, the church aren't encouraging people to engage in immoral practices.
@@pleasepermitmetospeakohgre1504 What is morality?
@@pleasepermitmetospeakohgre1504 some would say Christianity and the attempts to spread the Christian faith are immoral.
@@pleasepermitmetospeakohgre1504 aren't they? tell that to the pope.
@@ant9925 i don't get how anyone can worship someone who drowned everyone, including babies, becasue they were dissidents, and then goes on to kill his own son for a bit of drama, if that's moral it's no wonder people are leaving the church and seeing humanism as more moral.
Born an anglican, renounced it nearly 38 years ago and a happier more fulfilled person since.
All religions are a bit silly aren't they?
The science religion that is based on the big bang, black hole and isolated thermonuclear stars is the most stupid of all religions
Science isn't a religion...pay attention
Depends what you call science, for example black holes are a faith, they have nothing to do with science. They have never been tested in the lab using scientific method and just come from a mathematical garb
Math is science. Wake up man.
YES,YES,YES,YES,YES,YES,YES,YES,YES,YES,YES,YES,OH and YES..........
let us hope so - with any luck public displays of religion will die out completely
Hypatia Atheiria Amen to that! 😁
Why do you say that and what do you believe?
You really are anti religious what's wrog with yiu?
Hypatia Atheiria
Yes the bible already foresees that view you hold thousands of years before you even existed, people will become deniers of god, lovers of pleasures etc
Your denial makes you part of that self fulfilling prophecy.
AMERICA FIRST definition of religion is “the belief in and worship of a God or gods.” How is denying the existence of a god believing in the existence of a god?
I love watching Copson debate, so gracious and informed whilst silently thinking ‘fuck sake’ every time someone opens their mouth.
@Largesse1000 what’s upsetting you fella?
Religion should be taught in school, but only as an academic subject.
So frustrating to watch. People aren't leaving religion because religions aren't cool and hip for young people. People are leaving religion because of the internet. When you have all the knowledge in the world at your fingertips, why on earth would you give a shit about a 2000+ year old book?
Because your knowledge doesn't matter when you die,your knowledge doesn't give you purpose in life,your knowledge doesn't save your soul,because your knowledge will end with your death and all that remains after is what you believed,which has little to do with the brain but more to do with the heart and soul
@@cuffsandlinks You know nothing about what happens after death...just like the rest of us.
@@andrewmurray409 what stays is what you believe in and i believe in this
As the female Rabbi stated, look how diversified we are on this seat. And I add, all claiming to be the one and only true faith. Whereas only Copson pointing out that they can't all be right. And we should be glad that people are not blindly following myths and legends as though they were true. The more you teach people about more religions the less religious they become.
GOD IS LIFE, NOT A RELIGION
ruclips.net/video/_8cYqK9WIVo/видео.html
53% non religious, and 1 non religious guest with 4 religious professionals. Against stupidity, the gods themselves contend in vane. Schiller.
You might as well have a Tooth Fairyist, a Santa Clausist, an Easter Bunnyist, and a Great Pumpkinist battling it out, each claiming that their group is growing the fastest, when all the stats are saying that beliefs in such things is dropping! Extraordinary.
You missed out the Pastaferian
I'm actually glad Religion seems to be dying out. I feel like Religion has had way too much influence for way too long
Absolutely
Yep! It nearly had me in its grip too till I came back to my senses 🙃
Pfft! The stories in the Bible, Quran, vedic text & oral traditions is better than Hollywood today!
You might not think that a few years from now, wait till Sharia law comes to your country.
Let's make britain bcome muslim majority..receive more and more migrants and refugees.
They all want a bigger piece of the pie.
Who wants to be SCAMMED, NOT ME!!!!!!!
Exactly that's all it is. Religion is a business
Once upon a time it was believed that the function of the brain was to cool the heart. We no longer believe that. We do not complain that people no longer believe something that is not true? A secular education that one commentator complained is about learning about all beliefs including Humanism not just one belief exlusively.
Peoples excuses as to why the stats don’t apply to them is really interesting
Excellent from the man on the left and to the man on the right, faith does not provide answers it provides sedation.
Wouldn't you like something that does both. Personally, for me, I find science extremely personal and wonderful, quite like a spiritual feeling. ( of course nothing superstitious, I know it's just a reaction causing endorphins to rush through my body translating into the joy of finding something out.) and the other good thing about science - AKA a precise measurement of objective reality - is that it is true whether you believe in it or not. Best regards to you my friend. I'm so glad we get to share this slim slice in the magnificent dance of eternal time.
@@jude_foster280 I’m happy with the one real thing and thank you for your interesting reply.
Religion is like a super market brand
Selling empty product
At the competitive price of your credulity
GOD IS LIFE, NOT A RELIGION
ruclips.net/video/_8cYqK9WIVo/видео.html
Let’s face it, religion is marketed as strength in numbers.
I don't care what you believe... Just give me that money ;)
Faith=gullibility
What nonsense you talk maybe you are the one who is gullible
@@lolugothackedful he has a point you are really fucking gullable
Faith from the Greek means Loyalty. Nothing stops coexistence between that and Reason. Lack of exegesis however can make you gullible.
@@Joleyn-Joy faith != loyalty. It might once have been the same (have no idea) but thats really unimportant as the important part is how the word are commonly used at present.words are just labels on concepts. And they change meaning over time and place. So unless otherwise defined one has to assume common present day interpretation of the word. If not, this has to be defined particularly and the discussion must be in reference to that definition.
@@lolugothackedful first you have to define faith, but common usage is believing stuff that you only have second hand knowledge of, which is not how you buy a car or a phone, let alone base eternity on. i have faith when i drop my keyboard gravity will snatch it away and break it, followers of the christian mythology have faith there is an afterlife, but not any evidence of it. i am certain, they are hoping. i know what i go for.
Science provides clarity, books are books. Spirituality is knowing oneself and reality around us. Christianity leads to beliefs and faith which is personal findings, not universal. Modernization and Science rules fellas.
Andrew Copson's wrap up was brilliant
Are you serious? His argument was weak and it was clear that he got all his details on Wikipedia. His argument was bad
Guy's like him are like a wet blanket, he's no warrior.
Thanks Andrew for some sanity among the God squad.
Is religion dying out in Britain ?
With Christianity -yes , with Islam ,No.
Education is killing religion
@@cutesy1631 and arguably , religion is killing education....
@@cymro6537 oh yes was your prayers who build that computer you are tipping...
@@cutesy1631 Vint Cerf ( co inventor of the internet) is quoted as saying that religion and Science aren't irreconcilable - on asking if he was religious he quipped that he was ' *Geek orthodox* ' .
Personally ,I'm of the opinion that both can be taught - but by it's very nature , an equilibrium between both subjects would be in a constant state of flux.....
GOD IS LIFE, NOT A RELIGION
ruclips.net/video/_8cYqK9WIVo/видео.html
Why is there a decline in religion?
Why does no one ever state the obvious answer in these discussions?
Surely it because people simply don't believe in the existence of a god these days.
Tell me if I'm wrong.
Michael Norfolk they probably know this but in true religious fashion they won't admit it. Thry will just hide behind a fairytale belief that it will work itself out.
Michael Norfolk you are not wrong. People are realising that religion is a con game.
Michael Norfolk
Only YOU can decide if you're wrong, the devil doesn't need to come begging to get followers.
More unbalanced content from the (once great) BBC! Where was the atheist on the panel? (See above: "53% of British people have no religion") - and oviously no voice in this discussion...
there didn't really need to be, the religious nincompoops are quite good at A) proving theism doesn't work B) driving people away with their drivel.
Wow, this was extremely frustrating to watch. Denial, denial, denial.
I learned about Jesus Christ in My country England!! So this saddens me
For the Record 17:30 John Lenon said >> "People always got the image I was an anti-Christ or antireligion. I'm not. I'm a most religious fellow. I was brought up a Christian and I only now understand some of the things that Christ was saying in those parables."
I am the egg man
They are the egg men
I am the walrus
Goo goo g'joob
Lennon/McCartney
The former merchant banker who started his own pentecostal church. A good career choice!
yes it looks works for him , he looks very well look after.
Faith is the deliberate rejection of reality. We obtain our morality from experience, empathy, reality and reason. Morality is situational and not set in stone.
GOD IS LIFE, NOT A RELIGION
ruclips.net/video/_8cYqK9WIVo/видео.html
Without God there is no morality; it can only be an illusion at best, and this illusory morality is easily deconstructed and destroyed by anyone with an iota of insight.
Without God there is no reason. You only have an infinite regress in searching for ultimate logical axiom(s), upon which your reason can be built.
@@JJ-gq6sf This! That load of verbal diarrhoea is why everyone is leaving this stupid institution!
@@JJ-gq6sf one morality is subjective and chanced person to person. two morals have an evolutionary beginning. hence why we have empathy. without god and religion, humanity would have been better off. most violence, suffering and horrific events all happen from religion. majority of murderers are religious, most rapists are religious, most pedophiles and abusers are religious.
@@somerandomviewer you haven't understood a single point I've made.
Additionally, my points entirely undermine your message.
I am concerned with what is TRUE. When all of you religious bobos can agree on ONE system, then I will take a second look. You can not all be correct but you can all be wrong.
Led a taxi driver the Christ in 10 minutes? I doubt that happened. Taxi driver probably just wanted his money 😁
God: the longest game of hide and seek in the history of time. Delusions: evil apple trees, talking snakes, woman made from the rib of a man, woman is responsible for the downfall of man because she ate an apple, talking burning bush, sex with an angel and a virgin giving birth, walking on water, turning wine into blood ... . This would be considered insanity and witch craft if so many did not believe it. Get therapy!
You may not believe in God, but God still believes in you. You may not like Christ or Christians, but Christ and Christians still love you. You may not search for God, but God is looking out for you. In time you will come around. You know too much of religion not to have been interested.
He might have been forced to as a child, many many are including you most probably
@@antye3810 So if you teach a child a language with which to speak are you forcing your own religion ? And if you teah a child your own ethics and values are you forcing your values on the child ? Religion is the language of the soul all humans will at one time or another in their lives ask those difficult questions about life, roght or wrong etc... Only religion can give you direction.
@Largesse1000 If you took some time to comment and read comments about religion then you too are searching for the answers.
Quick, numbers are dropping... let’s rewrite the book we wrote years ago and get some young blood in and spread are ideology so they feel loved!
Sam W rewrite the bible and put in Harry Potter and Pokemon. 😁
Too LATE for both Bible and Qur'an; INTERNET has taken over the two FAIRY BOOKS!!!!!!!!
They are to be thrown into the DUSTBINS OF HISTORY!!!!!!!
Copson is always the rational one in the room, surrounded by complete dolts.
What young People need to see are wonders, but the faith to do this is zero
the wonders are zero.
as cameras get better, miracles get fewer.
Five against one.
Not what I'd call unbiased.
Poisonous fairy tales.....
I am not represented here. I am from the church of the flying spaghetti monster.
funny i laughed
GOD IS LIFE, NOT A RELIGION
ruclips.net/video/_8cYqK9WIVo/видео.html
Five to one non believer, nothing unusual there with the BBC, it'd be breath takingly unusual to see vica versa on the BBC.
I believe religious doctrine should never be taught in schools.
However, I think they should teach about all the religiouns that are currently out there in the world, and about all the dead historical religions that have been, from an achedemic standpoint in order for people to understand what religious beliefe systems are and were about. Give people the tools to make up their own mind and see whare things naturaly go, don't give them insubstantiated doctrine.
Mr Copson didn't call out this Katie Harrison person for appealing to Deism. The question being discussed was "is religion dying out" as in established, organized religion. She cited people who still have beliefs in the immaterial/universe which is a long way from modern monotheism. Deists are only a few steps away from reaching Atheism.
This is what the WEF would like , church leaders are the problem . Youngsters not really aware of Jesus due to lack of parental guidance and Christian teachings
Most English state funded schools are CofE, I can’t afford to send my daughter further afield for a non denominational school, and feel they are brain washing her into religion, as she is getting older she is becoming more suspicious with honest conversations around the table. When she was about 6 she called me a liar for saying I don’t believe there is a god. I had to explain it is my opinion from science and just a general feeling, but what quite affronted when she first said this to me.
I don't want to send my future child to a religious school either. Both because I don't believe in it and because I'm gay, which doesn't normally mesh well with religion anyway.
@@thomaswall1079 😂 😂 😂
"People are hardwired to believe in God", what a load of absolute tosh!
People are , reprobates like you fall away .
If they’re wasn’t a religion, people wouldn’t hate others as much as they do!
That is foolish talk .
@@barnaby4232 All people are religious , you as much as anyone else , and as for " common sense " , you take the biscuit .
Give your life to Jesus. It will change your mindset.
" Human beings are born hard wired to believe in god"...IS A LOAD OF CRAP!
"We don't class ourselves as a religion."
If you believe in god and Jesus, then how can you not be a religion?
*religion - noun*
*the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods*
I mean you can believe in god without being religious. I believe in god without belonging to an organised religion.
@@Razzmatazz99 being religious means believing in God, Gods, or some spiritual entity.
You can be religious but not belonging to any church.
@@puclopuclik4108 every religious person believes in god but not every person who believes in god is religious that is what I’m saying my nigga.
@@Razzmatazz99 it's the other way.
You don't need to believe in god to be religious. But if you believe in god you are religious.
Don't confuse religion with church establishment.
It seems to me, you are trying to describe situation when you believe in god, but aren't part of any church, or religious group. This also classifies as religion, because it still contains believe system. There are plenty of people who believe in their own way and don't need any institution to tell them what to do. That's why they put other as an option in questionnaires about religion.
On another side, there are religions which don't have the concept og god, but they still have believe in higher pover. They either believe in spirits of the ancestors, or reincarnation and carma, magic, or that everything has it's own spirit.
For example buddhism is a religion, but they don't believe in god. Religion of Native Americans believes in spirits but not in god.
@@puclopuclik4108 damn u wrote a lot
One minute in and the religious lady admits it's depressing not enough people believe in her god. The other religionists are in denial. They should be honest and admit they want power to control peoples minds. The problem is of course that believing in gods and magic is a bad argument.
me stupid, me need religion to guide me not take bad decision in life...Me sad, religion help me find a way into happiness so boss can pay me little but me happy cause jesus.
How about interviewing people under the age of 30 for their perspectives? Religion is dying because of hypocrisy, corruption, abuse, shame, and guilt inflicted by religious zealots and relentless attacks on Women, LGBTQ+, and on every other marginalized community by religious extremism.
God is eternal. Jesus came to seek and save the lost....seek and you will find Him!
I love that black preacher! But also I liked the Muslim guy. He is very passionate about his religion.
"The teachings of Jesus are not very palatable" so tell me about the life of Mohammed?
Tim Williams did you not get my sarcasm? Or have you doubled down on me?
The holy Prophet Muhammad-e-Mustafa's (SAW) life is dynamic and appealing to people. Don't believe Orientalist propaganda and lies. Learning about the holy Prophet Muhammad-e-Mustafa's (SAW) life from authentic Muslim historians shows a dynamic life that is supreme, amazing, and glorious.
@Ari Onassis-Sugen , Trinity is paganism. The holy and pure Prophet Muhammad-e-Mustafa (SAW) taught true monotheism. Jesus (AS) never said to worship himself. This is propaganda from devients. Truly there is no God but Allah and the holy Prophet Muhammad-e-Mustafa (SAW) is Allah's messenger. If you want to be beloved by Allah then you must follow the holy Prophet Muhammad-e-Mustafa (SAW) as he is the most beloved of Allah who shows the way to Allah.
@@xtremeownage2 Tell me why it would be paganism. There's no sustainable theory to support that. Not philosophically, not theologically and not in historiography.
@Anglus Patria Muhammed (SAW) was great that y Islam is growing and Christinity is declining
No matter what you believe, if a bus hits you head on at 40 mph, the result is the same.
GOD IS LIFE, NOT A RELIGION
ruclips.net/video/_8cYqK9WIVo/видео.html
@@rodolfovitangcol7549 What a silly answer. 🥰
17:21 Change "uncool" to "stupid" and Cathrine has a good point.
😂😂😂
Pentecostals are growing in the U.K.
Yes Yes the fairytale is almost over hahaha
as long as there is a "fool", religion will live on
In Britain. Worldwide atheists are losing their population thanks to the 3rd world. Well will come to your nations and bring back religion. Thank God we have more kids than you!
First Name Last Name what? Atheist aren’t dying out, more people are becoming disillusioned with your sky daddy
First Name Last Name yeah no
@@yourlocaldumbass7156 It's true my friend go look up religious demographics 2050. Your grandkids will worship God and atheists will be made to come to prayer or stay home and out of sight. God is so great for letting the secular nations rot from within as we conquer them by the womb.
Being indian am feeling sad about this situation Christianity brought so many revolutions in india .PLZ DO NOT FORGET BIBLE
Being an Indian i am feeling extremely happy. Religion and superstitions need to move out for the progress of humanity.
@Telive Qwenton Left long back. 😂 Many youngsters in developed states in India are religious only on paper.
Amen and God Bless you Shashi.
Proverbs 18:10 The name of the Lord is a strong tower; the righteous run into it and are safe.
@@dioc8699 but not sihkism. Because its a really cool religion
Bible my arse it’s bs. They drill it into your ears at a young age when your mind doesn’t know what to believe. Then they take advantage of that. And you don’t stop. They use all that atmosphere and bells and songs and other bs to trick the young mind. And as you get older you do or don’t know what to believe. Its all bs. Religion doesn’t truly get you through shit in life. You do.
What a shame. Your great grandfather / grandmother spent so much money to built Churches and now young Britain not belive in Jesus Chirst.
I know. They wasted so much time with fuckall to show for it. They should have been working on useful things like the economy, science, philosophy etc.
We are saved by faith. We do not need any religion.
Saved from what?
Is there no atheist here?
Too many voices and opinions in not enough time. It could have been better formatted.
actuly ppl leave cherestianity bcz its FAKE sorry but thats the true , If the priest does not have convincing and logical answers to human questions, how can they trust him and this religion!!
IF CORONAVIRUS DOES NOT STOP MANKIND BELIEVING IN A NICE KIND LOVING GOD AND STOP GOING TO PLACES OF WORSHIP I DON'T KNOW WHAT WILL!
Corona Virus 😄
Can you please try to experience Jesus Christ . Rosary, Adoration of blessed sacrement and word of God will help you to find the truth ...🙏😊🌹
After having en-kindled the fire of Anglican faith in the nook and corner of the globe, The Britons are losing the faith!
Well fought Andrew!
I think there’s a misunderstanding here- you can believe in a higher power and be non-religious. That’s called agnosticism and is a form of atheism
GOD IS LIFE, NOT A RELIGION
ruclips.net/video/_8cYqK9WIVo/видео.html
You're wrong.
Atheism means lack of religion.
Atheists do not believe in anything.
Agnosticism is America creation, because it's socialy unacceptable to be Atheist. So Agnostics claim they aren't convinced in believing in God. Basically they're just avoiding to say there is no god.
Theism is believe in God, God's, or supernatural entity.
There are 3 major types of religion monotheism, polytheism, and beliefs in spirits and higher pover.
Monotheists are Christians, Muslims, and Jews. Polytheists are Hindu, and old Greek or Egyptian religions. Witchcraft, shamanism, and religion of native American tribes believe ih hihger pover or spirits.
That's me. I'm a designer and you can really see the makers pattern in nature. Its fascinating. It's much more interesting to observe the natural world and what a devine experience to be here to witness it. Better than sitting inside a building listening to an old man preach on why you should go to hell.
Completely wrong.
The church doesn't speak to us young people.
Their messages seem mostly of hate and control along with their history of abuse of children its hard for us to have faith.
GOD IS LIFE, NOT A RELIGION
ruclips.net/video/_8cYqK9WIVo/видео.html
One of my granddaughter's used to attend a Catholic school but left because her teacher's never touched on GOD or the Catholic Church. Go figure.
They're trying to hold on with their dear lives lol I'm so ecstatic that religion is in a decline. It's heaven sent lol let's put an end to ignorance
Religion isnt that great becuase it is all about church,traditions and people. Your faith on the other hand is imp and growing if you nurture it. End of the day,you face the after effects of your choices,in life and after it too
Is that guy kidding saying he's not taking religion?
religion is losing its following, a hard pill to follow for the religious people.
Islam growing Fast it.will Forever Live
The reason is is because they keep blaming Islam for all the Christians problems
CHRISTIANITY kept blaming islam. For all there problems
Problems that islam has nothing to do with
spot the black hole guys.... I'll give you a clue, it first appears at 1.08 :P
Faith is believing what you know ain't so.
Again absolute rubbish you give no arguments for this at all
@@lolugothackedful
Any evidence for your sky God?
Drive to any village on a Sunday, walk in the church, if it's open, there will be only a handfull of parishioners, most of them elderly. The simple reason why people are becoming less religous, is that they think that what they teach is nonsense. Noah's Ark, Virgin birth, the God of the Old Testament, the list is endless. Science can never answer the question is there a God? But it has started to explain the reality of the physical universe we are a part of. But that said, religion will always be with us until we overcome the fear of death.
For religions in general yes but for Islam it's not the case it's not only the most growing religion in birth rate but also in converting rate
It's amazing the lengths we go to as kids to please our parents in thought word and deeds . Honour your mother and father . Does that mean to be influenced all our lives from our parents point of view ? NO ! I honour them. ...but as I've grown mentally and physically and through understanding science and the world around me I've developed my own point of view of the religeous and political concepts and ideas . Ive learned to question and answer through using the tools of reasoning and common sense to arrive at conclusions that satisfy me to my entire satisfaction that religion is not for me . I Honour my parents on a human level but not their politics or religion . Yes.....I'm a humanist .
Is 'living in denial' regarded as sinful?
you need a god for sin.
Yes, this is actually addressed specifically in Romans chapter 1.
HTH
@@JJ-gq6sf From 4 years ago, I can only guess that... I was referring to the religious guests denying religion's steady demise in the UK. The non-religious are now a majority so it's hard to deny.
I can understand your response given the lack of clarity in my original comment.
@@Devious_Dave maybe you're aware of this already, but the bible predicted that the Christian message would reach the ends of the earth (Matt 24) but then, before Jesus' return there would be a great falling away from it (2 Thess 2).
It seems we have witnessed part 1, and now we're beginning to see part 2.
@@JJ-gq6sf I don't believe such vagueness. More importantly, do you want the end of the world (whatever that entails)?
2 Timothy
Godlessness in the Last Days
3 But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. 2 For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, 4 treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people. 6 For among them are those who creep into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and led astray by various passions, 7 always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth.
GOD IS LIFE, NOT A RELIGION
ruclips.net/video/_8cYqK9WIVo/видео.html
They're relying on intellectual arrogance!
using intellectual absence.
Christians need to WAKE UP!!
They realize it's fairytales
What does not make sense will left behind
05:10 Look at the facial expression and body language of the black priest when the Islamic preacher to his left talks about how Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. He says: 'I'm not so sure about that' then looks over to him as if it is a competition! Which of course it is. A competition of who has the most subscribers lol. Absolutely ridiculous how ignorant people can be. Atheism or 'non belief' is the fastest growing as people have access to more knowledge and evidence than ever before so it's funny watching these fools fall behind without realising 😄
That's a good assumption. It's wrong. Remember that most of atheists in this world were coerced into it.
@@maxpayne3628 I believe in no God purely because of the fact that there are multiple religions who believe in different gods, yet they declare their God is the only God, that mess is the reason I don’t subscribe to any religious faith, fair play to people who find happiness and security in their faith, but I simply see no use for it in my life
@@schlobster3929 That's not a good reason to believe in no God. That at max , maybe an good reason to disregard Religion.
However, I would argue, that one could look at the different religious claims and he can eliminate Religions, for example, there are only two exclusive religions, Christianity and Islam. That's it. Other Religions don't even claim to exclusive.
They've totally overlooked 'pagan' related religions. There's a lot of young people into that now. More so than 20 years ago. I'd say it's more popular than C of E. Doesn't seem to be on the media's radar. And of course there's no category besides 'other' for that on official forms.
Why has paganism become popular relatively?
The evidence suggests that's not true. The breakdown is 52% non-religious, 12% Anglican, 7% Catholic, 19% 'other Christian', and 9% other religions. Of that other religions, less than 1% belong to New Age religions or forms of neopaganism.
@@HumanistsUK I think you misunderstand non-religious for being atheist. Non-religion can also mean DEIST, Agnostic leaning towards Theist and that's what majority of British are. Agnostic leaning towards Theism.. And religion will definetly not die out in Britain. You people see things in a very direct data form. I see it as a long pattern. It's not atheism is something new. It has been for a long time. Ancient Rome or Greece was also atheistic. As the European economy will fall( it definetly will one day), People will start becoming more Religious Because when the only purpose of your life is to make money and you're not able to make money, then life can get Seriously depressing and Nihilistic.
There is no religion one and only Jesus who is everybody's God Amen
Jesus? The Man City striker? I had no idea, but I guess he has been known to score from crosses
GOD IS LIFE, NOT A RELIGION
ruclips.net/video/_8cYqK9WIVo/видео.html
I’m fascinated that a human can promise another human everlasting life etc etc if they believe in a Jesus character.
As a child, I believed in Santa clause, but it was a human that gave me presents.
Thats why religious indoctrination starts at childhood.
Am A member Of Church of South India🇮🇳✝️ (ANGLICAN CHURCH OF INDIA) 🇬🇧🇮🇳🇬🇧🇮🇳✝️
I likes Protestant USA🇺🇲 UK🇬🇧
Praise Jeebus. About damn time now how do we implement this here America? Rabbi Laura sure wtf not
Gods are simply obsolete, like the buggy whip.
The real problem is that the growing movement of nonreligious people is educating the religious and exposing them to the lies and fairytales they have been taught. Also young people are not interested in going to boring churches and get enlightenment from the internet and social media. I don't see it as a problem though. I think it's great and wish it would happen quicker.
LETS LOOK AT THE GREAT TRUTHS YOU BELIEVE.
Biological activity from non biological activity. No evidence.
Consciousness from non consciousness.No evidence.
Life from non life. No evidence.
Ascensions from non ascensions. No evidence.
Something from nothing. No evidence. Yet I am to believe that a universe, possibly a multiverse, came about that way.
Order , harmony ,complexity ,purpose and function from chaos and disorder. No evidence. Yet I am to believe a ordered ,harmonious ,purposeful and finely tuned universe caame about from the chaos and disorder of the Big Bang.
One and a half million ,macroscopic animal lifeforms named ,categorized and described. There should bew hundreds of examples of anatomy in transition. Fins into appendages, appendages into wings, photo sensitive skin into eyes, scales fraying into feathers and many more. We see none. Yet we must believe that this happened endless numbers of times in the past.
What you believe is idiotic and you know it. You sit there like a mindless sheep, accepting whatever you are told by THE NEW ATHEISTS.
This is what you think will bring paradise on Earth?
Keep the faith atheist. That and a ridiculous story about everything coming from nothing is all you have.
Jeff Hart
The bible already predicted people like you long before you were around.
Jacob 1:27 WMB
Pure religion and undefiled before our God and Father is this: to visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained by the world.
if religion is not important read the verse above
There is no other GOD to be worshipped BUT JEHOVAH THE GOD OF ISRAEL...let stop this denial,HE IS THE CREATOR. Every knee will bow before HIM on the Judgement day either for Heaven or Hell. EVERY tongue on that day will Decree that HE ALONE IS GOD.
Y'shua bar Joseph went to Kashmir during the missing years to study dharma and died there as Musa or Moses. He was buried in Rozabal shrine Srinagar
the dishonesty from the religious lot is sickening
I don't think we are ever going to have a real fair result concerning the growth or decline of religion, there are in fairness the non religious who are not really without a belief completely, and ovbcourse like Andrew said it not every Christian is a Christian believer, so for me who is not hear nor there about religion feel that the subject is a complete stalemate due to everyone not being completely honest.