Are GUARD COUNTERS Really THAT BAD? | Elden Ring Challenge Run
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- Опубликовано: 8 июл 2024
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Simply Block and Punish, Guard counters are like fully-charged heavies but all in an instant, but despite this, I barely see them being used.
Are they really THAT bad? Let's Find Out!
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Timecodes:
00:00 - Intro
00:33 - Enter The Counter Zone
44:11 - Verdict (Are They Really THAT Bad?)
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Ok, I change my mind, Guard Counters aren't THAT bad 😂.
Honestly, after reading all of the feedback, I've now realized that I had a bit of tunnel vision, as I tend to focus more on the main bosses and less on the general player experience.
Because of this, I have learned to keep an open mind and to consider more than just boss fights in all my rankings moving forward.
Thank you to all who have voiced your opinions ❤. you have genuinely taught me the errors of my ways and have changed me for the better.
I mean, thats the whole point! Guard Counters are terrible if they were the ONLY attack you use. If you ripposte your enemies, its way more fun.
Also, Chris, I'm currently using a mod that lets you see the stance health of the enemies. So should you, since you did that challenge, it would have given you a better understanding of how the enemy posture health behaves.
So! while doing guard counters do massive posture damage, the posture bar starts to fill again past the 10th second since the last hit. The interval between every guard counter is too big for it to be effective if its your only resource.
Normally, I Guard Counter, then roll & poke, then Guard Counter again, and then I go for the ripposte.
I kinda enjoy that they made shields relevant again in Elden Ring, so I've been switching from brass shield for carian retaliation parry to Golden Greatshield for guard countering and I feel that there are bosses I prefer to parry and there are bosses I prefer to guard counter. For instance, Radagon and the Cruscible Knights I prefer to parry ftw while Malenia and Godskin (both) I really prefer to go for the Guard Counter. Both playstyles mildly affect your build, but in the end is preference, did you know that the parry counter and the posture bar are completely separated thing and they didnt affect each other???
I'm a spear and shield guy and guard counters were my bread and butter on the first run of ER. Anyone who thinks they're a bad tactic is nuts....just got to be selective when to use them
In PvP they are kinda ass because of the *loudest sfx known to mankind playing every time you do it*
Yeah tbh I feel like that sound should be hidden from other players, hell why does it make that sound in the first place, theres no other normal attack that plays a sound cue like this.
Some have fast counters, like axes, hammers and flails. Others, not so much.
I used it throughout elden ring - sword and shield - and it became ridiculously easy. It actually got a bit boring, so i started just doing stupid stuff as well, like throwing all sorts of pots and other exotic things. I even tanked malenia with it with medium armour (i focussed lots of points into stamina).
Man, I’d love to see you put out a video on spear guard counters only, I’m intrigued.
Im saying this for those who may not know. Upgrade your shields. It doenst just do damage increase. It increases guard boost (aka: the percentage of stamina you keep when blocking). So it's rly good. It also buffs shield ashes of war like the fire breath one im pretty sure.
Heck it used to be even more busted
As someone who uses Guard Counters as my bread and butter, you need the Barricade Shield ash of war for your shield. The weapon art itself counts as guarding when you apply it as early as frame one on the animation and it has a deflection value higher than a great shield. Bounce attacks, barely lose stamina, and smack 'em for lots of damage and stance pressure.
My very first playthrough used guard counters a ton, it's just that Elden Ring has the same problem that every Souls game has; as you move into later game, blocking becomes absolutely useless due to the insane escalation of enemy multi-hits and how much stamina/damage their hits do in general. Early game guard countering was fun and useful but early into places like Altus you realize how shit blocking is.
Real. My first playthrough was a melee only build (i didnt know how magic work) and i started out with shield but by Morgott I abandoned it to just 2 hand my weapon
Yeah true , u can circumvent the issue by using a heavy shield and upgrading to decrease the stamina consumed by blocking , but that limits a lot of build due to the weight and the fact most good ones are acquired late game and it still doesn't work with some enemies or ganks
a greatshield with a magic armament won't have trouble defending against any late game attacks
or just cast barricade every time
one can tank the waterfowl by blocking
Greatshields my friend, greatshields are great for a great reason
You are not supposed to block every hit, that's why you can move
I love pairing guard counters with the Spear Talisman. Whenever you can sneak a guard counter in during a combo, it's a nigh guaranteed counter hit.
Also, I wonder how useful shield grease would have been? It boosts damage negation and guard rating, though the crystal buds to craft it are annoying to farm.
0-0 oh ye
Spear talisman doesn't only work with guard counters. It also works when you stab an enemy while it is attacking. Great on poke builds that hide behind a shield.
@lightofthecolossus I can't shield poke with a pickaxe :3
scolars shield works the same and is only 10-12 int
I think the main upside of guard counters is the poise damage, with the damage and status of the attack being an added bonus. The amount of damage you could have done if you were allowed to riposte on this run would have been NUTS. Excellent run though, look forward to future vids!
23:42 bro realised he was in need of some drip, that was the real difference maker
I appreciate your "pop offs" after every boss kill.
Ohhh it's good to see you finally being done with this. This run was tediously hard at times 'cough' fire giant 'cough'
i think you should have been allowed to take advantage of the stance breaks for critting, that's kind of the main point of guard counters, is the intense stance damage
I frequently use guard counters on a weapon type you wouldn't expect people to ever even be guarding with
CLAWS
people don't even realize you CAN block with claws, so when I pull a guard counter out of thin fucking air and smack somebody with it they tend to be a little confused as to what the hell I just did
im so genuinly glad i found this channel randomly with that Crucible knight almost a year ago or so, since then the vids have done nothing but improve and become more and more entertaining, keep up the awesome work man!
Hi bois, this is my last video of the year and I’d just like to say thank you so much for all the love and support, being able to make challenge run videos for you guys is like a dream, and it’s all thanks to you (Yes, YOU SPECIFICALLY READING THIS). Happy new year, and I’ll see you in 2024.
btw, join my discord server? We would love to have more people join in!
discord.gg/K562hNYwtg
We love you too bud
Happy New year dude god bless 🎉🎇🎇
24:37 Why do I have goosebumps!? Great video, but I think that it would have been totally fair had you capitalized on the stance breaks with a riposte since that is one of the major functions of the guard counter. I still enjoyed it all the way through.
thanks! also, I've been asked this question a lot, truth is, it's kinda hard to make a "guard counters only" run, it u can also riposte
ayyyy one more great vid from the GOAT to end the year!
2:50 "Questioned how long a person has to be dead for grave robbing to count as archaeology" That was genius. Definitely deserves a sub and like, my guy, that was perfect.
Fun fact: it's 50 years.
For a build like this, having Barricade shield as the Ash of War is clutch
This is such a great video! I went back and watched a bunch of your older videos, and it's so cool to see you've been improving from good to GREAT as an editor and storyteller! I love seeing your reactions, haha. Brings me back to the adrenaline of beating some of these dudes myself.
One thing though, take care of yourself! I noticed you say you get headaches after long fights, it could be just tension, but it could also be your blood pressure. This literally happened to me when I was playing Elden Ring and was how I discovered mine had gotten a little high.
Be sure to take lots of breaks and not prioritize making these wonderful videos for us over stuff like going outside, exercising, eating well, etc!
will do! thank you very much buddy!
You, sir, are truly a fine man.
Am doing a guard counter play through right now (well, mainly spears and shields), and it is quite fun.
For some reason I found my first play through of ER incredibly taxing and frustrating but I've enjoyed my subsequent GIGA BONK strength build and now this "Godrick Knight RP" much more.
Lance + grratshield was my first playthrough, and I loved using guard counter. Obviously, on a normal playthrough, you'd do more than just GC, as you can do crits, pokes, and whatever AoW. But GC was my main strategy. 12 Int for Magic Shield, and stamina is never an issue.
Not all GCs are good. Colossal Weapons and swords are too slow. Sure, high stance pressure, but your punish windows are too short. Any of the Great weapons are good. Great hammers do the most strange pressure, great spears track really well and are super fast. For smaller weapons, hammers have a bad counter animation and misses a lot of enemies. But, flails might actually have a use a guard counter weapons.
Best weapons are probably the Executioners Greataxe, for the crit bonus.
I find that the flails GC hitbox is a bit weird. It looks almost identical to a straight sword GC, but will miss some things that a straight sword would hit: most notably dogs.
Funny enough twin blades have one of the fastest guard counters, ran twin knights since it has the most reach and used crag blade along with the haligtree great shield. Only a hand full of bosses made this build difficult.
Mixing in guard counters with regular attacks dodging etc can be really good pve and unexpected in pvp.
Guard counters can be cool but super situational, I wouldn't call them bad just under utilized during dev. like a lot of random mechanics across From's Souls catalog. Miracle resonance anyone?
Honestly guard counters are much better than the resonance thing in Ds1.. not to mention it being such an obscure mechanic that wasn't only hard to utilize but also hard to even know what these circles did
Bro I was just watching your Crucible Knight video LAST NIGHT lol what timing!
31:42 the fnaf jumpscare bro💀🙏
My first run of ER was with a great sword and a great shield. You would be surprised by the amount of enemies that bounce off a great shield.
"3hit-
2hit-
1hit-
_okay dude_"
exactly how i feel about that move
its however many hits he feels like at the moment. XD
Honestly the biggest thing is that Scholar's Shield should really have been used. As not only does it decrease stamina useage BUT it also increases the negations of the shield to the point you can reduce the damage of elemental attacks to near zero.
Along with that IIRC due to how the greatshield Talisman works it can actually cause medium shields to be better than greatshields when it comes to stamina cost. Also you should have tried Guard Counters with a shield IIRC they are actually quite strong and do pretty good damage.
My first run was a guard counter centric one with the lance.
Worked real well and was just a good time overall. The Eclipse Greatshield is great for this kind of style, with the help it gives in soaking statuses.
not even 3 min in but ur definetly funny deserve like follow and comment!!! keep it up brother!!
Guard counters are like parries that work vs more enemies. You still need to learn timings and worse off you can just whiff. They're good but not great.
Also i just noticed you're headless in the ending cutscene. That's great.
Yeah, the game doesn't like the head mod at all lmao
Nice vid m8, and just before newyears eve
YO that like fire head mod is sick!
seeing a couple of the streams with fire giant hurt
I use guard counters a decent amount, but they are pretty situational against anything that isn't a smaller enemy.
That ending was pretty funny ngl
the damage received is still making me anxious. Also you're getting better and better at storytelling!
Didn’t know Radahn can do meteor move multiple times. Nice video!
I never thought Mohg as Midir but that analogy is 100% accurate.
really cool custom head armour!
1st build i ever made in Elden Ring upon release was a sekiro build
Guard counters by ONLY BLOCKING WITH A KATANA
I put endure as my ash of war
Essentially its an infinite health and infinite fp build if you use the assasin dagger charms
I think when ranking guard counters as a whole, you got to remember that in normal gameplay you can reposte, while in this run you couldn’t. Still, the cons are present and they aren’t the best tool, but in combination with say, a royal knight’s resolve misericorde with the dagger talisman, those stance breaks can become crucial. But anyways, good job on the run! You really toughed it though, learning super specific ways to punish bosses that I’m sure nearly no one else has come up with, you did a great job!
I only use these on my shield only run. Outside of that I basically don’t guard at all or carry a shield outside occasionally buckler for parrying.
For my version of this i went with the smaller hammer with cragblade and barricade on the fingerprint shield. Has the quickest guard counter for the high poise damage weapon options. The range is quite similar to the big hammer as well. Also lightens up your equip load for better poise armor which pretty much guarentee's every guard counter goes through. Cragblade works well with it as you can just keep spamming it combined with the speed of the hammer and the extra poise letting you tank through enemy hits consistently.
Interesting!
I on the hand, decided on the giant crusher since I couldn't do any ripostes, but mainly to maximize DPH.
I think Fire giant and Elden beast would've been WAY worse if I had not done that
@@Chris_Chrass Ahh i see. Yeah without riposte's i guess the frequency of the hits wouldn't be as important. And you're right getting that one strong hit on bosses with not many opportunities is probably the way to go. Great video btw!
Thanks! and thank you for the great comment
the most important thing about guard counters is the poise damage and the resulting stance break that allows a riposte. if you dont do the riposte, the guard counter is pointless.
Sword and board guy here, using great shields and the misbegotten cleaver for my main run of the game. Their is something deeply satisfying in shield-tanking a full water-fowl and counter-hitting into a stance break.
love your videos keep up the great videos (a idea for one video can you beat elden ring as luthel the headless so you can only use the stuff luthel use so the spear the shield and the armor the helmet can be any helmet that you like :) )
Everyone was like, "Wheeee! Dragging my weapon through a pile of enemies while on horseback is fun!", and then forgot about it after 5 minutes.
Man destroys headphones live lol.
Fantastic vid! But WHAT THE HELL WAS THAT AT 3:17?! I've never seen that before!
yea well, it only appears when u break his shield
one of the best attack moves in my opinion
Guard counters are amazing, however, they are very difficult to manage. The stamina cost of a medium shield can be prohibitive, and heavy shields are very prohibitive on strength requirements. However, once you get some levels, and get a decent greatshield, the game becomes considerably easier. I think managing the stamina cost of guard counters, is the toughest part of the playstyle.
Hype, got a youtuber to use my name suggestion for a run :D
My Greed Could not allow me to do this Run
I used Scholar shield, and great mace, beat the whole game using it. Made the game stupid easy.
Brass Shield + Dragon Halberd carried me through my first playthrough ngl
I didn't know The Beheaded was in Elden Ring!
Using the shield buff spell or item would've given you more stability to reduce stamina consumption on blocks, plus bonus elemental damage reduction for shields. Would've made the run a lot easier.
Trading with Malenia works...? No wonder Radahn beat her historically, he just face-tanked everything and smashed through her healing.
imagine Mick Gordon doesn't exist, we are so lucky
almost fell asleep because I watched the video late at night and now I wanna go to the gym
Did a block+poke only malenia, the tip i would give you is to dodge the dash+thrust attack as the health she gets from it is stupid as fuck as well as dodge kicks in phase2 since they chew through your stamina like crazy, there's a fuckton of them and when she procs shield break animation she goes for grab instantly, which is dodgeable but if your challenge isn't "guard counters only" you might find the poise depletion she gets in so much downtime a little frustrating
Nice helmet mode, maybe someone can make one that look like the one your character wear at the frenzy flame ending, also that can replace imp head wolf would be amazing
I do counters all the time! Dedicated casters have a hard time with them, but a solid quality build will ALWAYS have some chunky damage coming out of them.
I dont think people avoid gaurd counters. Its just less efficient to block most attacks. And harder to time an counter aginst most bosses. Because if youre blocking a boss or other tough enemy. You likely blocked sevreal attacks. Then you need to attack suddenly. You probably are out of stam and didnt stagger the enemy. So now you have no stam and will likely take a big hit. And if you try to block youll have a guard break. Leaving you open to a worse hit. Add on in pvp its just to easy to read a counter comming. And its basically useless to try.
I couldn't tell if you did so, but upgrading shields boosts their guard boost, which might've helped you out
Indeed.
I did know about this, but honestly i didnt do it cuz i was WAAY too lazy to grind for another +25 equipment
@@Chris_Chrass HAH, I feel that xD
Really missed the “UNO REVERSE GUARD”. lol 😂
I just learned godrick has dialogue for when he kills you neat
Just getting started, I kinda think disallowing criticals on stagger goes against the spirit of guard counter play being about safe damage.
One of the things that in my opinion makes guard counters really nice is that it kinda invalidates a lot of the basic enemies in the game making exploreing super easy to do. I agree they're not great for a lot of boss fights. also guard counters for weapons other than big colossal weapons are still really good stance damage. a spear will deal 33 while all colossal swords will do like 36 and only half of the colossal weapons will hit above 40. a guard counter build makes getting to bosses and exploring the map the easiest part of the game where as using a more squishy damage focused build will make exploring unknown areas a pain.
I used the flail and a heater shield on my first run
3:17 i've never seen this attack, i guess is an especific amswer for guard counters
naw, it’s specifically for shield breaks
41:51 screaming like his family is being murdered 😂
I'm wondering how spears or heavy thrusting swords would perform. Especially if they give more reach or allow more openings.
Guard counters seem like a good tool to put in a build, if not enough to shape one around.
Indeed, I completely forgot about the spear talisman and the counter hit mechanic
Need more slots for stamina increasing stuff and they are kinda slow and don't do that well.
Not sure if damage negation affects stamina damage when blocking, but it's been a thought of mine for a while.
This is what i based my first playthrough of the game on without buffing or anything either. Not because im a try hard but because im stupid
The best strategy for guard counters is using a greatshield two-handed. Your stamina consumpsion would be much less than one handing. Shield counters do insane damage, almost like charged attacks. And poise damage is also great.
interesting
I've done shield only run not long ago. Greatshield counters were one of my damage sources. Captain Russia (my character name) was slow at the start but later he became an unstoppable tank. Surprisingly I had almost no issues with bosses besides Margit, Malenia and Fire Giant.
Next run challenge, Complete one of the Souls games in first person
two-handed guard-counters using a Giant-Crusher with Cragblade *MELTS* through poise
I bet it would, sadly breaking stance isn't my goal (since I couldn't riposte) so instead I went for RKR
It's that guy 🗣️
I can see why no one uses guard counters: need to block big damage drains stamina like crazy, and then you need to save at least something to make a swing... yeah, it's basically the most dumb way to be constantly out of stamina.
Shheeesg lessgo love you chrass
where do you stream btw? youtube or twitch? :0 (great videos btw)
thanks! I stream on youtube but I dont have the most fleshed-out schedule
Lance and spear talisman
Man does editing takes a long also how did ur exams go?
exams when well thx, my videos take a while cuz i don't have an editor and i do all the work myself
Just use the backstabs, the guard counters set them up.
I started practicing with sword and shields. It’s easier with shield and against that slow attack they all do.
ok so godrick and just any of the bosses in genaral wouldve been much easier if you could attack, use magic and riposte as well as predominantly using guard counters. Its not something you can only use to be good but its good when you actually incorporate it into playing the game normally.
Charged heavies and guard counters blowout poise
Use barricade shield and the guard counter. Youll straight slap all kinds of tough enemies. Its easy mode to me
I feel like guard counters and builds based on them are a mixed bag. Trivializing some bosses while turning others into just another strength based stagger build lol.
Miyazakis vision
Why did you never use magic shield?
The old men struggle to parry attacks from Bosses that are faster than the shield. Wise men defend and counter attack
I liked this run, but I think if you *really* wanted to get a feel for how good guard counters are, you would have allowed yourself to take advantage of critical hits on stagger. Guard counters are good at staggering, so it's just part of the same package. But I understand this was more of a "single-move challenge run" and not an actual viability test.
PVE? They’re incredible
does anyone say gaurd counters are bad? they seem good it's just a lot of people like playing without shields which I imagine is why it doesn't get used much. I don't like using shields much but elden ring makes me want to try it since gaurd countering seems fun
I can’t guard counter when I’m holding two great swords
Guard counters are broken in a game where the fingerprint shield exists😅
My guess as to why people don't use guard counters is because they're equal parts new and boring. It's relatively free easy damage and it also encourages playing passively, but at the same time it's something people aren't used to in souls combat since it's new to Elden Ring.
They are kinda shit. And waiting for an opportunity doesn't work that well when it comes to stance damage.
Most guard counters suck balls and they change between 1 and 2 hands.
I literally was just gonna look up if this video exited then yesterday I was just scrolling my yt when I saw this was literally just posted. I swear it feels like my brain is connected to the simulation, it happens like all the time but I’ll be like oh I wonder if anybody has posted blank, and 9 times out of ten the vid will be posted like the next day. So with my newfound power, I willl say i really wonder if Chris is ever gonna post his oiled up booty bouncing in front of the camera.
bro what 💀
damn the frenzied head mod page keep saying it cannot be found
:(
oh sorry, here ya go
www.nexusmods.com/eldenring/mods/953