Id love to meet this guy! Ive been in the trade for around 20 years, learned from old school guys and i usually pick up something with each video. Its really nice to see guys like don making videos. Grinding is quickly becoming a lost art.
Very informative video, you are a "natural" presenter Don, and you really make it enjoyable for us to share your shop and company. Thank you for this and all your other videos that you have produced and uploaded. Regards, Rob in Au
Thank you for all the time and resources you have shared with us. Sorry that so many people nit pick everything. I take each video and learn as much as I can and see the wisdom of a lifetime of experience. So many ways to do things. Each different way is like a tool in my toolbox. Each one has a purpose and method of use. Thank you for adding many tools to my toolbox!
In this case, I'd side grind it. I don't like how the wheel breaks down but I do like that there is less room for error (if the rolls on the sine was off a few tenths of worn gage blocks or the 45 degree dress was slightly off) as examples. Only thing I would have done differently is dress the side of the wheel before reliving it. Pretty much everything Ive learned was from guys like you, Old time toolmakers. I've been a toolmaker for 15 years now and feel lucky I am able to do what I do for a living. Great videos BTW!
This is awesome because I just found out a couple days ago that I'm inheriting a surface grinder, so I've been feeling the need to learn how to use it. I knew Suburban Tool would have some good info, but I didn't expect to see this pop up in my email, showing such a cool technique for doing far more with the machine than I knew was possible. :)
I just added them to a playlist. I have a lot of work to do to make room in my shop for it, and to get it moved, but I will definitely be watching them. Your videos have been the most thorough and educational of any I've seen as I've been learning metalworking. Thanks for all the work you've put into them! I assure you your name is the first thing that comes to mind now when I think of tooling and such that I might need. I know it has a magnetic chuck, and I already have some good setup blocks and angle plates, but there's still plenty more I'm going to need. Or at least want! :)
Thanks Don! Very informative. My introduction to surface grinding was in high school where i worked at NHBB regrinding carbide cutting tools used for mfg of ball bearings. We did a lot of side wheel using dished diamond wheels and was always curious about using a standard wheel as you have shown. i was unsure of the wheel could take the side load, sure seems like it can. I have an application where i am production grinding a relatively closely spaced 45 deg v-grooves post heat treat. am only removing a few thou and size is not important but surface finish is,
ya know Don, as i am just learning surface grinding, i have come to a sigh of relief. realizing that having my taft peirce no.1with its tilting head feature and a sine plate(or mag sine, but thats a very expensive dream lol), will be alot easier for said projects and keep from actually side wheeling. thanks again for sharing your wealth of knowledge. DJ
SuburbanTool Inc Hi Don, The shop is going great. All the walls are repaired and painted, machine are in place. Next is running wire to the equipment, but it will have to wait until I get back from vacation.Dale d
Thank you for this informative video. Some follow up questions: 1. Is it possible to grind a dovetail slot? 2. It seems to me the sidewheeling is the only option for grinding deep slots? 3. The accuracy of dressing the wheel at 45 degrees determines the squareness of the slot so this method is only for those that have access to a dressing jig that is very accurate?
Great info on selecting wheel hardness and the two solutions to doing the same work. Now teach Glenn about how a closeup is better when not from 10ft away. lol Maybe including some hi res still pictures of the parts and finish or even just doing closeup pics of the parts on a table would be of benefit as well. 14:54 the grinding done is in the shadow and it could have chisel marks in it and it would be hard for me to tell. lol I realize Don is the star of the show but I would like to see the parts too. :-)
You are an ANIMAL!!! Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge. I just bought a B&S 6x18 Micro-master. Any thoughts on oils and filters? Mine has a wool filter, and I don't know if that is good, or bad. Near as I can tell, wool is good for at least 10 microns. Which ain't good. Should I retro in something better? And the oil...should it be a 68 or a 32? Recommended is Mobile Vaccu-o-line 1405 I was considering a cocktail of AW 32 with a slick 50 kicker. Thank you so much. Mark
Hey Don, maybe your next video could show grinding to size while maintaining cenerline if a part (i.e. remove equal amounts from both sides). I could really use it!
Don... that was wonderful! Ok, my queries: First... Thanks for letting me drink beer in class. You are one cool Teacher. I loved the hand-dressing. Just grabba danged diamond and have at her. Third, that stone you always wipe stuff with... what is it? I have a Norton... what... 2" x 6" duplex.. and I use the red India side. And... well, I am more a Machinist than a grinder, but you will make me one. I used to use Kool-mist. I ran out one day. I am in Alaska and none of that stuff is local. I ran over to Practical Machinist Blog Site, and lo and behold, there posted was a recipe for home-brew coolant. Soy Lecithin, Arm and Hammer Washing Soda and Peanut Oil. Ya know what? It was superior to Kool-Mist in Lubrocity. My end mill, previously squeaking... just shut up and started making chip. Ok, I dope it with BHT as I figure it has to be bacteria free, but good enough to drink. ( The stuff is in my surface grinder now too, and I learned not to go full aerosol... but a mild globular spatter pattern at 20-30 PSI... ) What are your thoughts on coolant? I love your Videos!! Thanks again, Mark
Hello Don, Your presentations are always very well done and enjoyable to watch. One point that is lacking is the videography. It is usually mediocre at best, especially any close ups you call for, to demonstrate to the viewer exactly what the results will be when correctly following your process. Rarely do ANY video close ups show us EXACTLY what you are seeing and INTEND for us to see as well. Do you have a monitor so you can see the closeups as they are shown to us ? Just a suggestion for us viewers hoping to see each and every little tid-bit offered to us by pros such as yourself. I am a fan of Suburban Tools and am always looking for any good deals on used Suburban equipment. I do not mean to be critical, just hoping to be able to "see what you are seeing" in the videos. Thank you and best regards, Darryl Dodge
Hey, nice video. The 45 degree angle is a nice trick but if time is of the essence the side wheeling is a better option. I have a question though on side/face OD grinding. When I'm centre-type grinding the face with a side of the wheel, the face turns out not flat and it's a taper. It is only the case when grinding very short parts, long parts turn out flat to a few microns... I have no idea what's causing it. And machine is capable of grinding parts in few microns.
nocturnodrummer The only explanation we can come up with is that your wheel does not have a sharp point. It should happen on both short and long parts though.
Hi, thanks for the answer. Well unfortunately that's not the case because long parts turn out perfectly. We were wondering if there's something wrong with work centers. We have them 'zero'ed' but we wonder if they are truly concentric to one another. But even if.. Wouldn't the missagligment be canceled by table swivel? We are able to grind long parts in close tolerances but that face issue really bothered us. Sorry for my bad English.
Do you use coolant when your not filming? Your not getting wheel burning? I have also used a diamond dresser block mag'ed to the chuck when dressing the side of the wheel for safety.
I'm guessing that you would have set up the angle dresser to an exact 45? Another question is if your diamond isn't exactly on the center of the spindle when you dressed the wheel you would not end up with an exact 45 as well? How can you find the center of the spindle with the point of the diamond? The error would be minimal on a larger wheel but more noticeable on a smaller one? Great video Don cheers.
@@SuburbanToolInc I've worked out the math in the past but wondered if you had a trick. I made a unit for my Jones and Shipman that works from the spindle center and magnet for square that works to the actual diamond crest and not the shank. Great video's and thanks for the reply. The attitude of always wanting to learn/advance is always key.
Don.. from one old tool maker to another.. you can’t draw worth a rats rear end.. lol..but.. you get your point across..in this day of CNC (Christ! No Cranks) being the only thing taught these days..it’s hard to understand how we could move away from teaching this kind of knowledge. I am a card carrying Journeyman Tool & Die Maker. A dying breed. I’ve forgotten more than most will learn in life.. as for grinding with the side of the wheel I’ve found you must feed slowly and be aware that the wheel is cutting and not climbing because it’s Fed to quickly. Wheel choice is paramount too especially on a dry grinding set up. He mentions a J wheel which indicates the bond and not the grit. I’d choose a 46 for this grinding but a 60 may be what he’s using. Also, hardened tool steel grinding shows a darker spark whereas softer shows a lighter spark.
Don, the side hand dressing that you demonstrate in the video I believe is more dangerous than necessary The wheel dresser that was used to dress the 45 deg . could also be used to dress the reliefs on the side of the grinding wheel. Saftey first!
+Dick Bernardino We understand your concern and agree that the operator needs to be cautious , but please keep in mind that not everyone has a radius dresser. Even a kitchen knife can be dangerous if not used properly.
+SuburbanTool Inc Don, Ive used suburbans last word wheel dresser. My experience training new commers to grinding methods. Should first be safe and repeatable. HAND DRESSING is not either I am of the opinion that hand wheel dressing should only be used by experienced people.
+Dick Bernardino You can only get experienced by doing something.. and regardless of experience, a little slip will still grind your knuckle just as bad. Unless you're talking some hyperbolic extreme where the person rams the diamond in and the wheel explodes in their face because theyre leaning in to eyeball it... lol. Thats just lack of common sense, not experience ;p
Your right you can HEAR and SEE when you've dressed wheel correctly.. as a retired toolroom grinder .wouldn't recommend the 45 degree sine chuck method .. to many options for error and never mend the set up time and the faffing around.. maybe grinding on a production basis with a batch of parts it's maybe an option as you get positive stock removal on the down feed . With side swiping you basically have to count the sparks ,, ( the old hands will know what I mean) Small point which is sometimes overlooked . When regrinding the magnetic chuck or the back rail always have the magnet ON. DONT know if Don did that or not.. the chuck can deflect a bit especially if the chuck has been ground thinner with constant regrinding over the years, Its a small point but every bit helps when chasing the elusive MICRON.
Id love to meet this guy! Ive been in the trade for around 20 years, learned from old school guys and i usually pick up something with each video. Its really nice to see guys like don making videos. Grinding is quickly becoming a lost art.
Another great lesson Don! You have a knack for teaching.Thank you for sharing your expertise!
What a fantastic opportunity to learn from an expert. Thank you for these videos.
Glad you like them!
Really appreciate the instructional video here. I'm getting ready for a grinder in my shop, and this got me even more ready.
Very informative video, you are a "natural" presenter Don, and you really make it enjoyable for us to share your shop and company. Thank you for this and all your other videos that you have produced and uploaded. Regards,
Rob in Au
Thank you for all the time and resources you have shared with us. Sorry that so many people nit pick everything. I take each video and learn as much as I can and see the wisdom of a lifetime of experience. So many ways to do things. Each different way is like a tool in my toolbox. Each one has a purpose and method of use. Thank you for adding many tools to my toolbox!
Thank you for your effort in doing this video and saw us skills and technicks taking a life to master
In this case, I'd side grind it. I don't like how the wheel breaks down but I do like that there is less room for error (if the rolls on the sine was off a few tenths of worn gage blocks or the 45 degree dress was slightly off) as examples. Only thing I would have done differently is dress the side of the wheel before reliving it. Pretty much everything Ive learned was from guys like you, Old time toolmakers. I've been a toolmaker for 15 years now and feel lucky I am able to do what I do for a living. Great videos BTW!
This is awesome because I just found out a couple days ago that I'm inheriting a surface grinder, so I've been feeling the need to learn how to use it. I knew Suburban Tool would have some good info, but I didn't expect to see this pop up in my email, showing such a cool technique for doing far more with the machine than I knew was possible. :)
Jon Miller Jon , There are a lot more video's that will be of help to you in our playlist titled surface grinding. Thanks for watching.
I just added them to a playlist. I have a lot of work to do to make room in my shop for it, and to get it moved, but I will definitely be watching them. Your videos have been the most thorough and educational of any I've seen as I've been learning metalworking. Thanks for all the work you've put into them! I assure you your name is the first thing that comes to mind now when I think of tooling and such that I might need. I know it has a magnetic chuck, and I already have some good setup blocks and angle plates, but there's still plenty more I'm going to need. Or at least want! :)
Another great informative vid don thank you
Thanks Don! Very informative. My introduction to surface grinding was in high school where i worked at NHBB regrinding carbide cutting tools used for mfg of ball bearings. We did a lot of side wheel using dished diamond wheels and was always curious about using a standard wheel as you have shown. i was unsure of the wheel could take the side load, sure seems like it can.
I have an application where i am production grinding a relatively closely spaced 45 deg v-grooves post heat treat. am only removing a few thou and size is not important but surface finish is,
well done! I like this video
Lots of information as usual ❤️❤️
Excellent video. Grinding small snap gages can be a challenge
ya know Don, as i am just learning surface grinding, i have come to a sigh of relief. realizing that having my taft peirce no.1with its tilting head
feature and a sine plate(or mag sine, but thats a very expensive dream lol), will be alot easier for said projects and keep from actually side wheeling.
thanks again for sharing your wealth of knowledge.
DJ
You're welcome DJ, glad to have been able to help. Thanks again for watching.
Great video.
***** Thanks Dale , How is the new shop coming?
SuburbanTool Inc Hi Don, The shop is going great. All the walls are repaired and painted, machine are in place. Next is running wire to the equipment, but it will have to wait until I get back from vacation.Dale d
Thank you for this informative video.
Some follow up questions:
1. Is it possible to grind a dovetail slot?
2. It seems to me the sidewheeling is the only option for grinding deep slots?
3. The accuracy of dressing the wheel at 45 degrees determines the squareness of the slot so this method is only for those that have access to a dressing jig that is very accurate?
Great info on selecting wheel hardness and the two solutions to doing the same work. Now teach Glenn about how a closeup is better when not from 10ft away. lol Maybe including some hi res still pictures of the parts and finish or even just doing closeup pics of the parts on a table would be of benefit as well. 14:54 the grinding done is in the shadow and it could have chisel marks in it and it would be hard for me to tell. lol I realize Don is the star of the show but I would like to see the parts too. :-)
You are an ANIMAL!!!
Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge.
I just bought a B&S 6x18 Micro-master. Any thoughts on oils and filters?
Mine has a wool filter, and I don't know if that is good, or bad. Near as I can tell, wool is good for at least 10 microns. Which ain't good. Should I retro in something better?
And the oil...should it be a 68 or a 32?
Recommended is Mobile Vaccu-o-line 1405
I was considering a cocktail of AW 32 with a slick 50 kicker.
Thank you so much.
Mark
Thanks
Noticed that part is the moving jaw for a toolmakers vise, are all Suburban tool vises ground by hand on a surface grinder?
Andre Gross Andre , nice to hear from you.Yes , they are all made by hand on a surface grinder.
Hey Don, maybe your next video could show grinding to size while maintaining cenerline if a part (i.e. remove equal amounts from both sides). I could really use it!
Great!!!
Don... that was wonderful!
Ok, my queries:
First...
Thanks for letting me drink beer in class. You are one cool Teacher.
I loved the hand-dressing. Just grabba danged diamond and have at her.
Third, that stone you always wipe stuff with... what is it?
I have a Norton... what... 2" x 6" duplex.. and I use the red India side.
And... well, I am more a Machinist than a grinder, but you will make me one.
I used to use Kool-mist. I ran out one day. I am in Alaska and none of that stuff is local.
I ran over to Practical Machinist Blog Site, and lo and behold, there posted was a recipe for home-brew coolant.
Soy Lecithin, Arm and Hammer Washing Soda and Peanut Oil.
Ya know what?
It was superior to Kool-Mist in Lubrocity.
My end mill, previously squeaking... just shut up and started making chip.
Ok, I dope it with BHT as I figure it has to be bacteria free, but good enough to drink.
( The stuff is in my surface grinder now too, and I learned not to go full aerosol... but a mild globular spatter pattern at 20-30 PSI... )
What are your thoughts on coolant?
I love your Videos!!
Thanks again,
Mark
Mark Richardson We use Cimstar 40B in our shop. Fortunately it is available here in Michigan.
Hello Don, Your presentations are always very well done and enjoyable to watch. One point that is lacking is the videography. It is usually mediocre at best, especially any close ups you call for, to demonstrate to the viewer exactly what the results will be when correctly following your process. Rarely do ANY video close ups show us EXACTLY what you are seeing and INTEND for us to see as well. Do you have a monitor so you can see the closeups as they are shown to us ? Just a suggestion for us viewers hoping to see each and every little tid-bit offered to us by pros such as yourself. I am a fan of Suburban Tools and am always looking for any good deals on used Suburban equipment. I do not mean to be critical, just hoping to be able to "see what you are seeing" in the videos.
Thank you and best regards, Darryl Dodge
Hey, nice video. The 45 degree angle is a nice trick but if time is of the essence the side wheeling is a better option. I have a question though on side/face OD grinding. When I'm centre-type grinding the face with a side of the wheel, the face turns out not flat and it's a taper. It is only the case when grinding very short parts, long parts turn out flat to a few microns... I have no idea what's causing it. And machine is capable of grinding parts in few microns.
nocturnodrummer The only explanation we can come up with is that your wheel does not have a sharp point. It should happen on both short and long parts though.
Hi, thanks for the answer. Well unfortunately that's not the case because long parts turn out perfectly. We were wondering if there's something wrong with work centers. We have them 'zero'ed' but we wonder if they are truly concentric to one another. But even if.. Wouldn't the missagligment be canceled by table swivel? We are able to grind long parts in close tolerances but that face issue really bothered us. Sorry for my bad English.
Do you use coolant when your not filming? Your not getting wheel burning? I have also used a diamond dresser block mag'ed to the chuck when dressing the side of the wheel for safety.
Richard King We do use coolant when removing more stock. This was just for demonstration purposes and I took a light cut.
I've "heard" of people using a norbride stick to message the wheel. Does that work????
B Stevermer message the wheel?
I'm guessing that you would have set up the angle dresser to an exact 45? Another question is if your diamond isn't exactly on the center of the spindle when you dressed the wheel you would not end up with an exact 45 as well? How can you find the center of the spindle with the point of the diamond? The error would be minimal on a larger wheel but more noticeable on a smaller one? Great video Don cheers.
you have to be off center a lot to make a difference
@@SuburbanToolInc I've worked out the math in the past but wondered if you had a trick. I made a unit for my Jones and Shipman that works from the spindle center and magnet for square that works to the actual diamond crest and not the shank. Great video's and thanks for the reply. The attitude of always wanting to learn/advance is always key.
I THINK I MAY HAVE TO FLY OUT AND APPLY TO YOU GUYS HA HA..
second method is the best method ...as it is simple method without sinetable.
Totally not related to this video, I would like to hear how you grew suburban tool to where it is now .
If it counts, I enjoy your vids.👍
I need to side dress a 6° angle but having trouble finding a video
This video may help. ruclips.net/video/17j2_3DTI2M/видео.html
i wonder is don or any other machinist made a part fly by accident ?
+Marc-andre znarcuss Yes, it does happen sometimes. You just have to be careful.
Don.. from one old tool maker to another.. you can’t draw worth a rats rear end.. lol..but.. you get your point across..in this day of CNC (Christ! No Cranks) being the only thing taught these days..it’s hard to understand how we could move away from teaching this kind of knowledge. I am a card carrying Journeyman Tool & Die Maker. A dying breed. I’ve forgotten more than most will learn in life.. as for grinding with the side of the wheel I’ve found you must feed slowly and be aware that the wheel is cutting and not climbing because it’s Fed to quickly. Wheel choice is paramount too especially on a dry grinding set up. He mentions a J wheel which indicates the bond and not the grit. I’d choose a 46 for this grinding but a 60 may be what he’s using. Also, hardened tool steel grinding shows a darker spark whereas softer shows a lighter spark.
Don, the side hand dressing that you demonstrate in the video I believe is more dangerous than necessary The wheel dresser that was used to dress the 45 deg . could also be used to dress the reliefs on the side of the grinding wheel. Saftey first!
+Dick Bernardino We understand your concern and agree that the operator needs to be cautious , but please keep in mind that not everyone has a radius dresser. Even a kitchen knife can be dangerous if not used properly.
+SuburbanTool Inc Don, Ive used suburbans last word wheel dresser. My experience training new commers to grinding methods. Should first be safe and repeatable. HAND DRESSING is not either I am of the opinion that hand wheel dressing should only be used by experienced people.
+Dick Bernardino You can only get experienced by doing something.. and regardless of experience, a little slip will still grind your knuckle just as bad. Unless you're talking some hyperbolic extreme where the person rams the diamond in and the wheel explodes in their face because theyre leaning in to eyeball it... lol. Thats just lack of common sense, not experience ;p
I CAN TELL JUST FROM THE SOUND. I LOOK FOR THE DIAMOND PATTERN IN THE CUT. NO DIAMOND CUT LEAD POINT HAS TO BE REDRESSED. JUST AN OPINION...
Your right you can HEAR and SEE when you've dressed wheel correctly.. as a retired toolroom grinder .wouldn't recommend the 45 degree sine chuck method .. to many options for error and never mend the set up time and the faffing around.. maybe grinding on a production basis with a batch of parts it's maybe an option as you get positive stock removal on the down feed . With side swiping you basically have to count the sparks ,, ( the old hands will know what I mean) Small point which is sometimes overlooked . When regrinding the magnetic chuck or the back rail always have the magnet ON. DONT know if Don did that or not.. the chuck can deflect a bit especially if the chuck has been ground thinner with constant regrinding over the years, Its a small point but every bit helps when chasing the elusive MICRON.
Hand dressing looks super dangerous
***** You are right,Danger lurks everywhere. You must be careful.