You Can’t Talk Like A Writer - Jack Grapes
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- Опубликовано: 4 май 2021
- Jack Grapes is an award-winning poet, playwright, actor, teacher, and the editor and publisher of ONTHEBUS, one of the top literary journals in the country. He has won several publishing grants and Fellowships in Literature from the National Endowment for the Arts. He's also received nine Artist-in- Residence Grants from the California Arts Council to teach writing in various schools throughout Los Angeles. He is the author of 13 books of poetry, including TREES, COFFEE, AND THE EYES OF DEER, and BREAKING DOWN THE SURFACE OF THE WORLD. A spoken-word CD, Pretend, was recently issued by DePaul University. He is also author of a chapbook of poems and paintings titled AND THE RUNNING FORM, NAKED, BLAKE. His most recent publication is LUCKY FINDS, a boxed set of 50 cards that extend and parody the dynamic artistic productions of high-modernist poets such as Ezra Pound and Charles Olson. For more information on Jack's classes, please visit: jackgrapes.com/classesgeneral...
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#writing #writers #screenplay
“talking” and “pontificating” was helpful for me to understand the distinction he’s getting at
Jack Grapes comes closer to the essence of real writing than anyone I have ever listened to. I spent many years as a professional writer and he nails what it means to write with every statement.
In this piece, he actually explains why good writing entertains as well as explaining or telling a story. We veer between a chatty voice and a formal voice. When I am writing a piece on the economy, I may even write something like "Now where was I? Ah, yes! Money supply and velocity!" and off I go. A chatty style to break up the formalities of explaining monetary theory - or whatever it might be.
PG Wodehouse used this device to great effect.
This explains why I hate my own poetry when I'm trying to be "professional." Great video.
My grandmother, who was a grammar teacher, always said, "write as if you're talking".
Ah, synonym rolls... Just as grammar used to make 'em.
I don't really understand this. Writing and talking are mediums. Why would you imitate one when you're doing the other?
@@corposap because many writers are attempting to capture a particular voice (see Irvine Welsh's novel Trainspotting, where not only is the dialog identifiably Scottish--Edinburgh--brogue & slang, but the narration is as well).
However, it is a long-recognized function of literature that standard narration is often NOT the same as standard speech.
And then there are ppl like me over the years I have lost my separation btwn what I write vs what I speak. I tend to speak the way I write, using action verbs and consulting my mental thesaurus so as to express in 1 or 2 words that which would normally be expressed in 4 or 5 words...
@@corposap i think some writers need to be told the advice shared here, and he would know as a professional coach, but I can't help but think that some writers need to be told to read more widely and perhaps open a dictionary. Bigger words and more complicated syntax aren't just there to hit the recipient hard, a real intellectual shock and awe, they're used because they can communicate a lot of meaning in a way that may otherwise just not be the same.
Wut r u sayin thet yer grandma sed?
He's definitely spot on. Reminds me a former college professor of mine always used to say that if you can't explain it in layman's terms to your grandmother, you probably don't understand it that well yourself.
That's einstein I think!
Another one is "If you can't draw it, then you don't understand it". (draw = create a visual description)
This is my favorite RUclips channel and is very underrated
We appreciate it, thanks for your support!
Same!!!
Same. I watch daily
Agreed
Facts!
"They're a con man and they're flummoxing with jibberjabber. " Well worth the entire interview.
This has been a problem with all my writing over last twenty years. I start writing and suddenly it is not me; it's the PROFESSOR. I HATE that voice. I have a Kerouac style hipster voice (from my youth) that I hate almost as much. Too much education. It gets in the way of authenticity. At least for me.
"Write drunk, edit sober" is the creative writing advise that got me through most of highschool. This is a great series because it is very intuitive for me. I'm definitely buying Jack's books 😅
The part where he was pontificating as if he were the defense lawyer who had memorized a script and got fully into character was the moment I went to amazon and bought his book lol
This Guy is REALLY REALLY GOOD!!! Keep Him Coming BACK, To Your Program!!! He Can Help People in So Many Way's.
You and Jack Grape together make the best of this series.
This guy is a handful, he really nails his points and goes the distance to drive it home. One of my favorite videos so far.
He was great - would enjoy hearing more on the literary voices he referenced
Hi Brandon, check out this clip to hear Jack talk more about the 5 basic voices - ruclips.net/video/Vpd9DJLz7hA/видео.html
@@filmcourage - Awesome, thanks!
Take his class and you'll get homework assignments on each one. It takes some reading, getting inside the new voice and practice!
I always struggle to have my voice when I am trying to impress myself. It's so contrived. Its when I write in a fury what I need to say, regardless of whether its pretty or not, where it feels authentic. There is always more nuance in truth than in lies
He kills me! Such a great communicator.
Jack Grapes has changed the way I write. His knowledge from all of his videos is a treasure trove of expertise and experience. Also, how he explains his knowledge is clearly and carefully -said.
Thank you, Film Courage, and Jack Grapes!
You had me at “intestinal fortitude.” Hilarious!!! I’m going to sign up for your class.
You hear that in the Army all day long.
this interviewer is underrated
Film courage gonna be able to open a film school one day! You guys have so many talented people on here who give us such wisdom...
But it IS a film school of sorts😊
I think the word he is seeking is "versimilitude." Dialogue is as important as costume and props to maintaining versimilitude.
I would love to attend his classes.
Loved this guy.
This man is amazing.
The interviewer just doesn’t get it. I always use Robert Di Nero’s advice “don’t do anything. When I act I hardly do anything I use dialogue and my facial expressions convey all that needs to be.” This transfers to writing, when I write I simply focus on dialogue and what a person is doing and how they say things I do not describe feelings
Man, all this talk of "pontificating" is really reminiscent of Dead Wood's dialogue. Sublimely superlative.
This guy is amazing. Great conversation
This is game changing information ! A lot of people fall into the loop of trying to write for talking when the truth is you need to write how you speak for how you’ll speak! As redundant as that sounds.
Anything written for speaking must be written from the mind of speaking. If it’s strictly for reading than typical writing suffices. I love this video! Helped me a ton!
This plus the video on the 5 tones, really helped me to unchain myself.
His adlib story is more intriguing than most story writing I've read recently.
Thank you Thank you Thank you.
Another FANTASIC video! Thank you for sharing it.
This guy is amazing
Love this man and his personality!! :) Great information in a real and honest manner.
This is such a special place on RUclips 🙏 thanks guys for the courage 🎬❤️🎥💯
One of my favorite characters that I would RP was a super casual nonchallant sort of guy who doesn't really get shocked much by the oddities around himself. His voice, the spoken word was much more 'authentic' as Mr Grapes is describing, but as I would begin to describe his actions, his surroundings, it would more often be as the writer.
Excellent video! Excellent interview! Excellent guest! Thank you so much for this!!
I really enjoy writing poetically
This was good to watch
That was great.
So writing books really shout on writing proper. That can set you back. To a point of no return. Thank you for your words of wisdom. 🙏
Ha! Love this guy! He's authentic. And is able to bring an understanding of cerebral things, down to useable and actionable knowledge! Great Video!
Give this man a MasterClass already! This channel and these wonderful speakers are underrated, indeed. Thank you for sharing with us.
the best, he is like a clutch hitter in baseball, he shoot right on the essence , clearly and simply explained exactly what writing is, and what I need to know.
awesome guy
That Network scene was beautiful!!! I remember seeing it for the first time. I was like: I would definitely do that in real life.
A poyson lol. Good interview btw.
Ey yo!
I subscribed because I like this guy.
I agree with alot of what he says about the inner voice.
Thank you for the contribution.
Peace.
Oh sh*t. Better go back and rewrite some of my stuff. If not all of it.
_I muttered sheepishly_
The juxtaposition using Shakespear was very helpful.
Favourite part was the entire video! Amazing!
Nice!
God i love these conversations😭❤
I love , love , love this channel!! Great content every single time.
Thanks Don, you must be clicking on all the right videos. 😁
Man! I can listen to this dude all day. I need to know when the long version come out.
We're trying to get there. Gradually getting closer.
Top drawer interview.
I love mr grapes
Oh, man! This was sooooo good!
Thanks Sean, we appreciate you watching!
Karen, thank you for what you do, I've been following your channel for several years and it has been transformative for my writing, keep going! Jack Grapes I could listen to all day, and I commend you for publishing the uncomfortable episode on emotional truth it was beautiful and brave but what it taught, priceless, hope you are well. Damian
Love this conversation. I don't know if I'm good at applying it, but I am constantly seeing written (or acted) dialog that is in no way how people really talk.
Bold Guy ❤️
This was awesome.
We are glad this one found you Lisa!
He's the man.
Who is this guy? He's great.
Omg. this is so good. Thanks!
Cheers Christian!
He the best....
Wow..just wow. His will be two more books that I've bought from people interviewed on this channel. Thank You so much Film Courage!
Nice. Cheers!
When I interact with people sometimes I remember to breathe and when I do I often talk like a writer. One can really hold a person's attention when ones words are absolutely honest and accurate. Of course the nuances of the character that I am (in real life) often demand a bit o' drama or comedy or both.
Jack is great if you listen to him. He's literally teaching people that don't recognize actual literature writing that you learn in English class. That you can and how to write stories and still have proper writing technique cause it sounds exactly how it should coming out of the person's mouth whether heard or in text.
This is exactly how you pull characters out of the words and into the mind of the person reading with their imagination cause they recognize that it sounds real.
I watch all the video's on this channel, and I always wonder what the interviewer looks like, because she has such a beautiful and soothing voice.
she's beautiful. i was curious as well. lol.
14:24 "I know thee not, old man." I still remember that line, and I saw the movie over thirty years ago. yes, it's quite a line.
Thanks
Thank you so much Bunga! We love to see others finding value in these videos!
when he did the defense attorney that took me out........ and I got it finally ROTFL
I would say a good example would be Jerry Maguire's "you complete me" monologue.
🖤
This was so helpful and makes sense to me. Compare the dialog of the Star Wars prequels with anything written by Elmore Leonard.
I think you underestimate the prequel’s power.
Ideally you align the two forms of oratory and literary. That’s what I’ve been trying to do for years now. People make fun of me sometimes because I use words like verbose. It’s just how I express myself though. Both on the page and in my speaking. Generally simpler speech is better and more commonplace speaking tends to be more emotionally stimulating (was going to say poignant but wanted to land home my point). I think the two forms can be quite integrated contrary to how we’re taught
I finally feel like it can be expressed how "true" my debut novel feels, even though it's entirely fiction.
haha this is awesome
This conversation is very meta
great video! though, it would have been nice if he dove into the other side of it where people seem to often look at it as unintentional inconsistency that pulls them out, instead of a deliberate decision that pulls them further in-but i guess this likely comes from misuse/overuse of the writing voice. so scratch that, it would have been even more helpful if he addressed more thoroughly how to use switching between the two voices effectively and how not to use it detrimentally, above just the difference between the talking and writing voices.
regardless, this gave me a lot to chew on! a video i probably need to watch multiple times, as well as his other ones. thank you both!
More context if you check out this previous video - ruclips.net/video/Vpd9DJLz7hA/видео.html
@@filmcourage mahalo mucho!
What was your favorite part of this video?
And if you want more context on this material, please check out this previous video with Jack Grapes - ruclips.net/video/Vpd9DJLz7hA/видео.html
My favourite part of the video is the interviewer lady! She shows her strength here too with the quality of questions and quick interpretation of the answers!
The part on changing tones was great. That is the most difficult part to insert the theme and make it insightful rather than just entertaining. His acting is great too! Was he trained at doing Shakespeare?
Hahahaha... that's exactly how my uncle the trial lawyer talked. ;-)
An example of writing unlike how you'd talk is purple prose.
She Said, I Don't Like You, and I Retorted, Buy I Like You!!!!
I can't believe she made fun of the way he said 'person' right to his fucking face and laughed. I'm dead.
What does he mean when he says "lost world" and "absence of field"? I haven't been able to find anything about them online
The title of the vedio is true voice. So, Does it mean that true voice us shifting between writing tones in the one a writer finds suiting?
.
Next time anybody says don't be jack of all ..make sure they meet this Jack ..
I don't even want to talk anymore... 😱
I’ve just realised that I wrote my novel in my Mickey Mouse voice.
Duuuude....Disney gonna sue haha.
He nailed Buckley
I'm guilty of using unconventional dialogue tags. I see this more often in Young Adult, but I digress. Most of the time I write he said/she said. And the more I study CMOS, I find myself leaning on he said/she said. Still, there are times I break up the monotony with she replied, or asked, or questioned. Dan barked with harsh words -- that sort of thing. And yes, I know Dan didn't actually bark but bark adds flavor to the text without having to write extra lines to convey that Dan was yelling in an angry voice. To add to that, I also use adverbs. I use them less these days but I'll still sneak in, Sally walked silently, or swiped swiftly in place of writing extra lines. When word counts are important, adverbs can be a friend as long as they're not in excess. But that's my opinion. Others will disagree. And before someone says "Sally could have crept," I know ;)
7:12 that's how Jordan Peterson talks😅
Speak as each character would. Proper or no.
He's not just talking about dialogue. He's talking about the prose. Like the "he said" thing vs "he remarked" or whatever.
Love this channel, but i'd like guest to conduct better whit the host.
12:40
Truth is not fact, facts are meaningless without a lense of interpretation.
So is he saying do not write in the formal voice because it distances the audience? Is that why he only wants to write in the casual voice? (I agree with him it makes it more relatable.) Also I disagree with his assertion that you can not talk like a writer, because if in a formal setting or around elitists they will discriminate and ostracize people if they don't in certain eschelons of society. It seems to me some of the executives that are from Ivy league schools look down on writers and scripts that do not use formal language and that tries to make it relatable to everyone. The script readers that work for them seem to really use it as an excuse to reject stories and language that is more common and working class. They seem to be only choosing aspirational characters or stories that are from the upper echelons as escapism because maybe it sells better. The all american working class story often gets rejected, though I know someone will say Hillbilly Elegy just got nominated but look at the TITLE for goodness sakes , they even used -- ELEGY-- in it as if it indicates we are the elite we only present this story as a sociological observation of our society and its conditions which must be addressed. Do you not see what I mean, even their TITLES will not allow it to be just what it is , as it is, and accept that, because truth be told they don't! So while I want to agree with Jack as he is trying to get people to be more authentic but what do you do when they reject that as they do not want to curate it as a story reflecting the canon they want to create for the era rather than turn the light to examine what is really going on. It seems to me literature and novels will have to capture it and then a later generation trying to understand why events in history and times changed will then adapt it and make it in future. Maybe time and distance will make it palatable or maybe they will just consider them more ......ELEGIES? Mourning for the long dead generation.
This argument seems to boil down to the American macho contempt for articulate speech. All sorts of people "talk fancy", but mainstream culture regards them with suspicion (hence the effete, intellectual or British villain so beloved of Hollywood cliché). Outside modern Anglo culture, fine speech is often valued and even rewarded. You don't have to talk like a trucker or a cowboy to be authentic.
Quality. She is referring to Quality, or Arete, from the Greek. People know and understand intuitively and evidentially ... what is Quality and what is not.
I guess creative writing is speaking (but with a typewriter).