A bullpup rifle that has poor ergonomics, crap iron sights, rubbish trigger, is overly heavy and has parts based on the AR18 would never be adopted by a military. The UK - Hold my beer.
The AR-18 was supposed to be our AKM, a gun that any country could build. We just had so many second-hand M16s to sell them that it was never necessary.
**Shortly after the failure of the AR-18 as a military rifle for 3rd world countries, I decided to design an even lighter, simpler, cheaper 'weapon system' that I titled the AR-19 and AR-190(civilian version). It was designed for smaller, less wealthy, so called "4th world countries". It was basically a higher tech version of the classic rock throwing sling, a-la David v Goliath..... As such, the initials 'AR' in my AR-19, did NOT stand for "Armalite" or "assault rifle". Instead, the initials stood for "Assault....Rock". Lol**
@@patrickmcleod111 Did it take 500-bullet Clipazines, shoot 300 Laser-Guided bullets per second, have a mount for a Chainsaw and have a Shoulder-Thing that goes up? No? Ban it anyway! Nobody should be allowed to own a weapon that's designed to kill 10-foot tall Giants! 😱
My knowledge of the infrastructure required for that kind of stamping makes me question that. Even the stamped AKs were more often made in the more industrialized com-bloc states while milled AKs could be built anywhere. From what I heard, the AR18 was just for countries that couldn’t mill aluminum. But the overlap of countries that could stamp steel but couldn’t mill aluminum or buy from someone who could wasn’t really enough to support the product
@@stanleyjedrzejczyk2966 As silly as it seems, I watched a Fox news debate about a year ago with a democrat who was calling for strong regulation or even banning of single shot, black powder muzzle leading rifles, because they are "dangerous".
If the M17S doesn't shoot well, the sights are horrible, and can't be charged if you have large hands or are wearing gloves, *why* *the* *hell* is it in a list of *decent* rifles?
+RonJohn63 A friend of mine had one. It was actually very accurate, and fed ammo reliably from a standard AR magazine. But he got rid of it because the recoil spring compressed right under your chin when shooting, making a loud "clank". Also, the butt was uncomfortable when firing a lot of rounds. Looks like they were trying for a military contract, with the main attributes being cheap production and standardized mags & ammo (to M16).
It also heated up a lot in the sun or under heavy fire. You couldnt get a good cheek weld without burning the sit out of your cheek. I tried different coatings and even glued leather to the frame. I drilled vent holes in the frame and wrapped the forend with Aerospace insulation, then heat shrank rubber tubing over that. It improved the rifle a lot. I sold it.
I hear none of the complaints they had about the rifle, ESPECIALLY the trigger. Although, it is the K&M redesign that fixed many ergonomic and design issues with the rifle. I hear it's one of the best bullpups available now.
I sold mine recently. Pretty rare, took me awhile to find a price to sell it at. $900, sold in one week. The guy who bought it was looking for unconventional firearms. It did get hot. I rigged it up with a vertical hand grip to lessen that, but not nearly as good as a Steyr Bullpup.
Love my Benelli MR1!!!! Coyote hunting is it's purpose. The mag release is not an issue if you use your left hand to release from the left side. The action release can be an issue if you have short fingers. It's very accurate! We can't hunt with AR's in Canada so this is a great alternative. Very easy to take down and clean. And takes standard AR mags. Just a little pricey here, around $2000 brand new. Putting optics on can be tricky as well, take to a shop will make the experience less pain full. Excellent choice if you don't like AR's or can't have one.
Fellow Canadian here living in the post AR15 canada. The benelli MR1 is a gem. I use it for military competitions (CQB and service rifle) and its phenomenal. I wouldn't trade it for anything
I’m a big fan of my Benelli mr1. Fellow Canuck here, don’t hear much about it outside of Canada and California for obvious reasons. I think the guys complaining about the magazine release and bolt release must just have small hands, I have zero issues. The worst thing for me is the pencil thin barrel and how HOT that fore end gets after just a few mags. It is reliable as all hell and I’d take it over any of the Canada-legal ar180 type rifles.
Same with English guns... The l98, a semi-auto variant of the SA80, produced in England (the only semi-auto gun produced in England I could think of) is illegal in England.
+Walter Kingsley-Filshie So, I had looked around and found that firearms can be bought in England, for hunting, are the laws more strict there than America?
Allahu Akbar Oh god, you have no idea. for shotguns, defined as smooth-bore firearms, semi/full auto is banned, and pump action cannot be a magazine with capacity of more than 3 rounds (so 4 total with one in the chamber). Rifles you can't have full auto or burst fire, and semi auto and pump action are only allowed for rimfire calibres (ie .22). A rifle is defined as a firearm with a rifled barrel over 20cm and a total length more than 60cm. Handguns - defined as a firearm with barrel length less than 20cm and overall length less than 60cm - are outright banned. To own any form of legal firearm, you must apply for either a firearm certificate (allows you to own a rifle, as defined above) or a shotgun licence (obvious what this is). To get a licence, you must have 'good reason to own a firearm', for example pest control on a farm, or hunting or target shooting. For hunting or target shooting you must have been a member of a shooting club for at least a year, and have a letter of defence from the president of the aforementioned club. So, much, much more strict than the USA. Even replicas are heavily restricted by the VCRA, which I won't explain here. The only licence-free firearms we can own are deactivated firearms, which must have a registered deactivation certificate from either London or Birmingham.
+Walter Kingsley-Filshie Thanks, so for example an 1827f is obviously a rifle, so some laws are similar, such as some licenses. thanks again for taking time to respond in the detail and manner you did :)
The AR-18s that the IRA used during the troubles were actually smuggled in from Boston, USA. Since many Bostonians have Irish descent, they were sympathizers and smuggled them in via fishing boats into mainly county Donegal, Ireland. I am glad you added that piece about them, it is the first thing that came to my mind while watching.
They even made what is imo one of the catchiest songs in history titled "My little Armalite" which presumably is about either/or both the AR-15 and AR-18.
+TFB TV I think Egypt would have been better off to adopt the SKS instead of developing the Rasheed. The only reason they developed it was because they couldn't afford the AK-47 but the SKS was a lot more well known more reliable and easier to manufacter than the Rasheed. They should have went with the SKS like China did.
No on your No. If this rifle was made by MAGPUL it would be a popular rifle and would sell like crazy! If you build it (MAGPUL), accessories will come! No one is making aftermarket parts for rifles made by “Bushmaster”. Bushmaster is a marketing failure and has the reputation of Remington 1911 R1. What’s the point.
@@easyeagle3730 Magpul doesn't manufacture firearms (at least in full production scale), they manufacture firearms accessories. If anything, they should have sold the rights for their design to a more reputable company like, oh, let's say -BCM or DD.- Edit: I take that back, BCM and DD would not bother with such a flimsy design. Bushmaster makes a lot of sense.
i love my ACR. its a damn shame bushmaster didn't support it with the barrel kits they primised. i've form 1'd it and have dumped another $1k getting it all snazzed up. im surprised you guys didn't mention the fs2000. another gun i love that didn't really catch on.
LordStickMax The FS2000 hasn't really caught on with civilian sales, but its full-auto version carved out a decent enough niche among European and Asian militaries as a special forces weapon. It's not the second coming of the FAL or anything, but it's making money for FN.
LordStickMax I'm with you. My ACR is simply awesome. Even better with a 10.3" DD barrel. I'm almost kind of done with AR's because of the ACR. They only thing is the lack of BM support. It would almost be better if they let it go back to Magpul at this point...
I love the Rasheed I’m surprised it didn’t make it since a ton of collectors would love to get there hands on one including me. It has a super cool action which is my favorite part about the rifle.
I'm from the UK and I agree, barring our elite level small scale manufactures or Accuracy International, Britain makes shit guns. Has for years. It took the MOD from the late 70s all the way through the eighties to come up with the A1 variant of the SA80. It took H&K mere months to improve it.
John S that's because the uk is largely anti gun how can one make something good that they are against also the feed back from customers if there re are not many
I agree but there are many Germans who are anti-gun yet they have some of the finest firearm producers in the world, the difference is they care about their companies a lot more than the UK does
The AR180 wasn't a failure, just nobody but Armalite made and supported them. If they weren't so expensive, I would love one. If somebody made one with a competitive price point, like say $700-$800, people would be all over them.
Part of the problem was Armalite expected a lot of commercial contracts which never happened. Then they jumped on the polymer bandwagon with their "improved" model with the plastic lower which was a dreck. I have a Costa Mesa original, and it is an excellent rifle. The only change I would have made would have been to use an FN style folding stock lock instead of the flimsy one it came out with. Other than that, I have no complaints.
I'm guessing you must have lots of British viewers, mainly cos we will never see these in the flesh! I took an American friend to my local "Gunshop" he walked out laughing. If more people could use and shoot here then maybe we could produce better firearms. the legislation is ridiculous here, they just don't get it. If I'm going to rob a bank I don't need any paperwork. If I am caught with anything for home defense 5 years min. Keep up the good work lads.
69waveydavey Christ mate, you Brits got it raw. My condolences. How can they outlaw self defense in the home? I guess you'll have to keep a firearm anyways or find something else to protect yourself with.
You're right, too. The only reason Britain doesn't make good guns these days is that almost no one with any engineering knowhow has ever SEEN a gun. If Britain had a healthy gun culture like they did 100 years ago, or like America does now, you'd have plenty of future firearms wizards taking apart their granddad's rifle and putting it back together for fun.
The problem with you Brits is you let your elites dictate to you too much. It's a problem here in america, but about 50% of america (traditional white americans) are pretty firmly entrenched against the lefty,homosexual, rootless cosmopolitan jews that call themselves our elites.
@@p51mustang24 I'm surprised that you don't want to move over here to Britain, what with our present ruling elite being a bunch of right wing, borderline fascists and anti Semites. You would fit right in!
The MR1 is actually a civilian legal version of the Beretta RX4 Storm assault rifle that never went anywhere. It does use the ARGO system like the Storm and some of the Benelli/Beretta sporting shotguns, but it's not simply a "dressed up" hunting rifle to look more "tactical". It has it's origins in a tactical rifle. Plus, I know a couple of people who own them. So far, they like them.
2 grand for a mass produced POS? You can buy a match grade equivalent for that! I guess when your gun is in Call of Duty, you can jack up the price. Probably also why ACOG is priced at what superior scopes are also priced at.
Before I even clicked, I was like you better include the AR-18! Glad you didnt disappoint. I will never understand that one. Cheaper to make because its stamped steel, simpler too. And it has what everyone wants these days ie a piston. I guess its a classic example of one gun selling better than the other just because the military adopted it.
The lads are right in saying that only the IRA got use out of the AR-18, believe it or not those rifles are still floating around up the north, the gardaí raided an IRA safehouse in Newry or something not too long ago and found a whole crate of them and assorted other stuff. There was even a case of a few M82 rifles smuggled in from probably Boston can't say for sure and they got some use in the late 80's early 90's. Sure a 10/22 would set you back a grand worth of pens alone here.
+sergeantbigmac If the Norwegian military hadn't already adopted the (A)G3 and 7.62, then there is a good chance that we would have chosen the AR-18. One major criteria was that the rifle could be cost-effectively license-maunfactured in a (relatively) low volume by our Kongsberg weapons plant. The AR-18 would have been perfect.
Yup, that was the whole point of the AR-18, really. It was basically the NATO equivalent of the AKM - a decent infantry rifle that could be made cheaply by small or undeveloped nations.
Pistons are over-rated, and the piston craze has pretty much faded. They add weight, move center of gravity forward, and the rifle still gets dirty, just in a different place. The only time they are kinda nice is if you are running a suppressor.
The AR180 is something that just wasn't around long enough to catch on? I remember in the early 1970's when my little pals and me (i was 13) learned they sold them in the stores, we all wanted one. More then an AR even. The folding stock, the appearance so much awesome. If they made them now they could undersell the AR's by $300 and they;d sell every one.
A guy here in the US has redesigned that Australian Bushmaster thing. It's supposed to be actually really good. Way out of my price range though. I would love to see a head to head to head comparison of the new and old one if you ever get the chance.
Honestly, I live in America but "American made" is no longer a good thing...Just means you're paying extra for something to be made shittier than if it were manufactured in other countries who actually care. Just a though.
One that comes to mind is high point. And to think there's people out there that think these are something of great wonder. Factory mags are made from tin foil. Engineering from the monkey cage.
+bobwatters there was a day when if it said made in the USA. It was made in the USA, and it was the best quality you could get. Now it's used to sell junk as if it is quality. I am thankful that there is still some great gun company's in the U.S. Many,not just gun company's, sold there sole to cheep China like crap.. Dont be fooled by the USA tag. My old guns, tools, made in the USA are like gold to me.
USA manufactured goods are a mixed bag. Some manufacturers are world class, some are shitty and overpriced. Lots are good but also overpriced. Some are cheap but surprisingly good.
I own a ar180. It was made in Ca in 1969. This gun in way under rated. If you spend any time shooting this rifle you quickly see this is a great battle rifle. It is like a ak47 with the 556 advantages. You can use it with your eyes closed. I own ar15s and this 180 is a better gun. Very reliable very accurate simple to use. Folding stock and a removable scope. And stoner designed. If this gun had the years of advanced tech like the ar15? It would be modem greatness.
The AR18 had such good potential, as a stamped steel rifle is usually less expensive than a milled aluminum one, and I think if it would have been made originally to take AR15 magazines it may have done much better commercially, just look at the popularity of AK rifles today, simple and rugged, and they don't cost near what an AR does typically. The ACR is just too expensive for most people to buy, the damn thing does just what an AR15 does yet costs almost a thousand dollars more to do it, in fact it lists for almost a thousand more than a short stroke gas pushrod AR15, and I'm not sure why as a polymer pistol will cost about five hundred dollars less than a metal framed equivalent, I thought polymer firearms were supposed to be less expensive to produce, it seems the opposite with rifles.
caveman joe Lately though, I've often heard that milling or forging is the way to go as far as expenses. But yeah, the AR-18 should have been THE rifle. It was still in an early stage of it's development, but it was still far more reliable than the M-16A1. Such a shame!
Look at AK prices now that we can't import them. I can almost buy 2 ar-15's for the cost of a new usable akm. The akm was cheaper because of labor, even that field and it's cheaper to batch process forgings and cnc milling
The Bushmaster M17S design was bought by K & M Arms who upgraded and improved on the original design. They still sell the upgraded rifle in 5.56, .300 Blackout, and 7.62x51 (.308WIN). The trigger on it is not only better than any bullpups, but equal to the top tier triggers of conventional rifles.
jojo hindleI would love nothing more than to return to Australia and drive a dritbike in the outback with an SKS strapped to my back shooting whatever. But those days are over. I'm so sorry. Come to the US m8.
Here in Sweden the MR1 is basically the only semiauto capable of accepting high capacity magazines since the Mini-14 was made illegal. At least in 5,56/.223 I've heard some talk about Saigas i .308 might be legal.
The AR-18 actually has a song about it "My Little Armalite". Personal political opinions aside, by all, this is an interesting footnote to this long obscure rifle and one not very common with many other firearms.
BigJT2010 I agree...but the SCAR is made by a reputable company...I mean FN can really do no wrong, they have a contract with the Government for the 249 and the M16A4's so an actual proven record where as Bushmaster is just good at getting sued and making cloned AR15's!
nateo200 Yea Im tracking. Im currently an Army armorer, I deal with 249s and 240bs on a daily. Im fully aware the SCARs an all around better rifle, I just think the ACR is prettier. Not trying to say any different.
The SCAR is excellent in both 7.62 nato and 5.56. Just doesn't offer enough to be worth replacing the ar15/m16. I doubt any rifle ever will until the decision for a new caliber is made. The 7.62 version in particular is really excellent, but even then there are some REALLY nice AR-10's that blow out it's price point.
FYI - Miller and Stoner's AR180 was designed after the AR15 platform was adopted by the Military, and while Stoner was still with Armalite. It was Armalite's fallback design for commercial markets after the AR15 platform was taken over by Colt. They went on to develop other weapons for the Military (Stoner did, at least), but the 180, while in the running for adoption by certain US branches (and even preferred in some cases during trials) was passed over due to a few small things - such as the stamped receiver, as well as the fact that the tooling was in between manufacturers at decision time. I'm a personal fan, and I even have one in my collection that's pristine and is one of the 1st 1,000 serials out of Costa Mesa. In the late 70's and throughout the day 1980's, when the guns were very prevalent at shows, Many preppers had a prefernce for the 180 because it was rumored that you could make a small part with a piece of sheet metal, snips, and a pair of needle-nosed pliers to convert the gun from semi to select-fire in about 2 minutes. I don't know if that's true, and would never try to find out, but thought it was worth noting. Another benefit was that it was quite easy to convert GI mags to use in the gun with just a small file and drillbit. I don't recall if it was Stoner or Miller, but I once heard that the AR180 was a gun that's got AR accuracy with AK reliability and ruggedness. Sterling thought it was so great that they just copied much of the operating system for the SA80 that's in service with the Brits today. Also - I was also an early adopter of the Masada, and share your frustration. I think the guys at Bushmaster in CT were true to their word with the platform, but the whole thing really fell apart when Remington got involved. Unfortunaly, the ACR went with the other assets, and Wyndham didn't retain the rights to that design. Thanks for the video, very entertaining and informative.
A lot of these guns are popular up her ein Canada because of their features or lack thereof due to our laws. The MR1 is especially nice here. The ACR is just too expensive for what it is. The M17 i think got an upgrade not too long ago
Yes, Canada's laws never cease to baffle me! (Alex here). I try to consider our neighbors to the north when I am doing this kind of stuff, but I also consider how small the market is (California alone has more people in it than the entirety of Canada). Still, I do like to try and consider the market, as well as others when possible. Truth be told though, gun owners in Canada are some of the most dedicated I have come across, perhaps because it is not as much a casual thing as it is here and rather requires some commitment. Our resident Canadian writer Eddie O. can drop some serious knowledge bombs on us all at times!
TFB TV We are a dedicated bunch out of necessity. We had quite a few too many scares/wake-up calls (like the reclassification fiasco last year) that made Canadian shooters realise we're in deep doo-doo if we don't do anything. Yes our market is small but it can be influential in some ways. Some weapon manufacturers now consider us a big enough market to create variants of weapons for us only, much like you guys have for California and New York. I find this increasingly awesome because it makes a bigger, more influential market. Thus, it increases the amount of business it generates and economic return. Which in turn, alway affects politics. If there's one thing politicians understand, it's money. So when they pass laws that negatively affects sales and revenue...Things change.
Going to have to disagree on the MR1. If you use the mag release on the other side with your other hand, mag changes can be very fast with a bit of practice. In Canada ar's are restricted, meaning they can only be taken to approved ranges. The MR1 can be transported, carried, and fired like any standard hunting rifle, making it much more usable than an ar. If I lived in the states, I would probably agree with you, but honestly this thing has grown on me and I would never part with it.
The fact that a rifle doesn't sell well in the US doesn't make it a "spectacular commercial failure - I don't know why they made it". The MR1 sells pretty well on markets that are not AR15-obsessed (AKA markets where a rifle being accurate, reliable and clean counts more than it looking tacticool even if it's really a $600 jam-o-matic). The "blatant design flaw" is in your mind also. When you change a magazine, you happen to have to move an hand anyway, you can very well use it to press the magazine release button, like you do on many classic and modern AR designs. IE, the ability to reach the release button with the finger of your shooting hand is so fundamental that the Germans didn't put it in their G36 service rifle.
There is a company in Arizona who has updated and improved upon the old Bushmaster M17S. Tim @ Military Arms Channel did a review on one and liked it. www.kmarms.com/ Pertaining to the ACR hopefully when FB Radom USA finally is up and running their MSBS which they said they would bring to market will be what the ACR should have been and then some including the ability to become a bullpup! At least Poland will be more appreciative to the U.S. gun market trying to make a name for itself unlike the arrogance and liars over at Freedom Group.
I'm surprised there's nothing from Madsen Arms in Denmark on this list. They had terrible luck with their guns. They came out with a great SMG, right after WW2 when there was a surplus of them. They came out with a great bolt action rifle, right when everyone was switching to semi auto. Just all around bad luck for them.
KelTec RDB 20, I know it's not included and may not have failed yet, technically, but it's got the best bullpup trigger ever and I recommend the 20" because it's surprisingly accurate. The later production models, 2018 and up, have the bugs worked out and are extremely reliable.
solus48 HOW DARE YOU DISGRACE THE ALL MIGHTY SCAR! that being said, i actually love the way that the scar h looks. scar l looks good with short mags. looks like a mini scar lol
Hey guys, the acr and the mr1 are quite popular here in canada, because they are considered unrestricted. Ar15s are restricted here, so we can't hunt with them on our lands.
otacon333x2 Oh, some one get there little AR feelings hurt? And Yes I am just the guy you need when things go wrong. Actually trained in marksmanship, a Weapon that I wont spend half the fire fight unjamming, a round that will put someone on there ass and penetrate cover and can use the FAL to actually hit something more then say 500 meters away. (Thought I don't think you could manage to hit anything at that distance) Most AR enthusiasts I have ever met are actually kind of shitty shots. (Actually most non-military trained hunters are kind of lack luster shots)
You got that right brother! The FAL was the "right arm of the free world". So that made YOU the right arm of the free world. And my right arm! That alone makes it a rifle to love. "Fall guy" is just an attempt at humor with a play on words. But don't get too "up in arms" about the AR. The AR was very controversial at the time it was adopted, and many in the traditionalist US military would have preferred something like the FAL, I'm sure. But no rifle has proved to be perfect,including the FAL, and it's all trade offs. The AR was adopted for sound, objective, reasons. It's also a system that's been in constant development ever since, and by now, is the most versatile, adaptable, system around. But you know that, I'm sure. Even countries that did use the FAL have switched to rifles that are more like the AR. I don't know what you have against AR users, except non-military hobby shooters not being good shots. I wouldn't expect them to be. Maybe cut your free world brothers some slack? If AR users tend to be defensive, about the rifle, it may be when the criticism of it is unreasonable, incorrect, or just expressing thinly veiled hate of the United States and Americans.
Nah its not that I have a problem with all AR users. It's more a matter of "Not all AR users are shitbags. But most Shitbags own AR's" It's not a bad rifle. (For hobby shooting) But its overrated. I can find a better gun. If you like the AR that's fine. I had a bad experience with the M15 in the army. And its just that ever annoying ass seams to own one, not that every one with a AR is a annoying ass. Also the FAL Is just a amazing weapon. It the G-36 and the M-14 are the best weapons I have ever used.
WilliamM. Laowai by day. I can appreciate everything you're saying. I have a similar feeling about the AK-47! But it's not really anything about the rifle itself, per se. It's the AK cult I hate. But the rifle has a lot of objective virtues despite it's devotees. And many people whose opinion I respect hold the rifle in high regard, But to me, it's not the ultimate weapon it's cultist believe it is, so I consider it way overrated. And of course, not everyone who uses one is a cultist about it. The AR has had a very controversial history, and it's still controversial even today. Going light does involve some pretty big trade offs to gain other advantages. Maybe trends will start moving in the opposite direction again. I notice that the US has dusted off the M-14 again in Afghanistan. But rifles seem to be just getting smaller and lighter all the time. But maybe we're actually like ancient warriors already, arguing whether a long sword is better than a short sword, while changes we can't even foresee, will inevitably make swords themselves obsolete?
The MR1 is not the same operating system as benelli shotguns. Their shotguns have no gas system whatsoever. They operate purely on inertia which is the entire advantage. Their rifles use a similar rotating bolt design but they have a gas piston system.
There are gunsmiths who specialize in conversion kits for the ACR, there's a site called ACR forum where fans of the rifle go to wallow in their sadness, and they make some really cool barrels and bolts for it.
I don't know why, but I just love this oddball stuff. Any of those guns could be fun plinkers. The Egyptian rifle looked like an amalgamation of several different models. Still, very cool. Thanks guys!
The biggest issue with the ACR and the MR1 is the price for what you get. The MR1 is more popular in canada because the AR15 is restricted to gun ranges only so people buy it as a substitute. In canada it retails for just under $2000 which is outrageous for what you're getting. My buddy has one and it jams quite a lot compared to my $850 Mini 14 that hasn't had a feeding issue yet. For $2000, my gun better feed well.
The name of the video is literally 5 DECENT rifles that failed. And then the first gun comes around and it has bad ergonomics, bad trigger, bad iron sights, sucks at shooting. What about that speaks “I’m a decent rifle”
With the Bushmaster ACR, the better ones are the ones made before the company was bought out and moved locations they are made in some Alabama factory now with new owners. The good ones are the Bushmaster Windham Made ones. The former employees and founder of Bushmaster stayed behind and made a new company called Windham Weaponry from the old Bushmaster factory. They make some high quality ARs.
Just so you know, not sure whether this is just a me problem or what but the brightness on this video is really high for me. Your faces look like they are glowing
You REALLY sold the Bushmaster M17s short. I've had one for years and with a few minor mods (change the charging handle / carry handle, lighten it up a little with some cutout holes, and add some rails to mount optics) have found it to be a reliable and very accurate rifle. It's a bullet proof design, easy to clean (it's based on the AR-18, the second gun you talk about in this video, Ironic?) and since you can get them for fairly cheap, you can get the Mods (K & M Aerospace is a one stop shop that does great work at a really reasonable price.)
i saw the rw1 in a manga i read once and fell in love with how it looked, i remebered seeing them at cabelas at one point but could never find one remember what they were called still want to pick one up though just to have it
The AR 180 was supposedly designed to eliminate the flaws of the AR 15. Better gas system, no case assist, easier charging handle, better/flatter sights due to lack of the carrier handle. When it came out it was better than the AR 15.
So back in the day, you just had all sorts of companies manufacturing all sorts of different rifles, instead of everybody making an AR or AK variant?
It was glorious
Even today, in anti-gun states, there's a large variety of firearms as companies come up with new ideas on how to be compliant with each new law.
A bullpup rifle that has poor ergonomics, crap iron sights, rubbish trigger, is overly heavy and has parts based on the AR18 would never be adopted by a military.
The UK - Hold my beer.
Tea* xD
hahahaah
Never shot an SA80 but they don't look modular
you got a license to hold that beer? - the uk probably
I remember when the Bushmaster M-17S came out. I think I still have the issue of Guns & Ammo it was featured in. I really wanted one at the time.
The AR-18 was supposed to be our AKM, a gun that any country could build. We just had so many second-hand M16s to sell them that it was never necessary.
**Shortly after the failure of the AR-18 as a military rifle for 3rd world countries, I decided to design an even lighter, simpler, cheaper 'weapon system' that I titled the AR-19 and AR-190(civilian version). It was designed for smaller, less wealthy, so called "4th world countries". It was basically a higher tech version of the classic rock throwing sling, a-la David v Goliath..... As such, the initials 'AR' in my AR-19, did NOT stand for "Armalite" or "assault rifle". Instead, the initials stood for "Assault....Rock". Lol**
@@patrickmcleod111 Did it take 500-bullet Clipazines, shoot 300 Laser-Guided bullets per second, have a mount for a Chainsaw and have a Shoulder-Thing that goes up? No? Ban it anyway! Nobody should be allowed to own a weapon that's designed to kill 10-foot tall Giants! 😱
My knowledge of the infrastructure required for that kind of stamping makes me question that. Even the stamped AKs were more often made in the more industrialized com-bloc states while milled AKs could be built anywhere. From what I heard, the AR18 was just for countries that couldn’t mill aluminum. But the overlap of countries that could stamp steel but couldn’t mill aluminum or buy from someone who could wasn’t really enough to support the product
@@stanleyjedrzejczyk2966
As silly as it seems, I watched a Fox news debate about a year ago with a democrat who was calling for strong regulation or even banning of single shot, black powder muzzle leading rifles, because they are "dangerous".
A bullpup a bullpup, my kingdom for a decent domestic bullpup.
If the M17S doesn't shoot well, the sights are horrible, and can't be charged if you have large hands or are wearing gloves, *why* *the* *hell* is it in a list of *decent* rifles?
+RonJohn63 A friend of mine had one. It was actually very accurate, and fed ammo reliably from a standard AR magazine. But he got rid of it because the recoil spring compressed right under your chin when shooting, making a loud "clank". Also, the butt was uncomfortable when firing a lot of rounds. Looks like they were trying for a military contract, with the main attributes being cheap production and standardized mags & ammo (to M16).
It also heated up a lot in the sun or under heavy fire. You couldnt get a good cheek weld without burning the sit out of your cheek. I tried different coatings and even glued leather to the frame. I drilled vent holes in the frame and wrapped the forend with Aerospace insulation, then heat shrank rubber tubing over that. It improved the rifle a lot. I sold it.
I hear none of the complaints they had about the rifle, ESPECIALLY the trigger. Although, it is the K&M redesign that fixed many ergonomic and design issues with the rifle. I hear it's one of the best bullpups available now.
I sold mine recently. Pretty rare, took me awhile to find a price to sell it at. $900, sold in one week. The guy who bought it was looking for unconventional firearms. It did get hot. I rigged it up with a vertical hand grip to lessen that, but not nearly as good as a Steyr Bullpup.
I mean i could charge it with my right arm two fingers i wouldnt even need to use my whole hand and sights are trash
Love my Benelli MR1!!!! Coyote hunting is it's purpose. The mag release is not an issue if you use your left hand to release from the left side. The action release can be an issue if you have short fingers. It's very accurate! We can't hunt with AR's in Canada so this is a great alternative. Very easy to take down and clean. And takes standard AR mags. Just a little pricey here, around $2000 brand new. Putting optics on can be tricky as well, take to a shop will make the experience less pain full. Excellent choice if you don't like AR's or can't have one.
Agreed!
Fellow Canadian here living in the post AR15 canada. The benelli MR1 is a gem. I use it for military competitions (CQB and service rifle) and its phenomenal. I wouldn't trade it for anything
Agree 💯 % excellent gun, extremely reliable, bought one for home defense. For some reason ar guys don't like them
I’m a big fan of my Benelli mr1. Fellow Canuck here, don’t hear much about it outside of Canada and California for obvious reasons.
I think the guys complaining about the magazine release and bolt release must just have small hands, I have zero issues.
The worst thing for me is the pencil thin barrel and how HOT that fore end gets after just a few mags.
It is reliable as all hell and I’d take it over any of the Canada-legal ar180 type rifles.
The Bushmaster was built as a prototype service rifle for the Australian army, but the army adopted the Steyr Aug so development stopped
fucking hell, the gun made in Australia is illegal in Australia
Same with English guns... The l98, a semi-auto variant of the SA80, produced in England (the only semi-auto gun produced in England I could think of) is illegal in England.
YA it's because of the port Arthur massacare in 1996
+Walter Kingsley-Filshie So, I had looked around and found that firearms can be bought in England, for hunting, are the laws more strict there than America?
Allahu Akbar Oh god, you have no idea. for shotguns, defined as smooth-bore firearms, semi/full auto is banned, and pump action cannot be a magazine with capacity of more than 3 rounds (so 4 total with one in the chamber). Rifles you can't have full auto or burst fire, and semi auto and pump action are only allowed for rimfire calibres (ie .22). A rifle is defined as a firearm with a rifled barrel over 20cm and a total length more than 60cm. Handguns - defined as a firearm with barrel length less than 20cm and overall length less than 60cm - are outright banned. To own any form of legal firearm, you must apply for either a firearm certificate (allows you to own a rifle, as defined above) or a shotgun licence (obvious what this is). To get a licence, you must have 'good reason to own a firearm', for example pest control on a farm, or hunting or target shooting. For hunting or target shooting you must have been a member of a shooting club for at least a year, and have a letter of defence from the president of the aforementioned club. So, much, much more strict than the USA.
Even replicas are heavily restricted by the VCRA, which I won't explain here.
The only licence-free firearms we can own are deactivated firearms, which must have a registered deactivation certificate from either London or Birmingham.
+Walter Kingsley-Filshie Thanks, so for example an 1827f is obviously a rifle, so some laws are similar, such as some licenses. thanks again for taking time to respond in the detail and manner you did :)
The AR-18s that the IRA used during the troubles were actually smuggled in from Boston, USA. Since many Bostonians have Irish descent, they were sympathizers and smuggled them in via fishing boats into mainly county Donegal, Ireland. I am glad you added that piece about them, it is the first thing that came to my mind while watching.
+Mick E Arnold Schwarzenegger is the first thing I think of when I see the AR-18.
They even made what is imo one of the catchiest songs in history titled "My little Armalite" which presumably is about either/or both the AR-15 and AR-18.
Tiocfaidh ár lá
@@C18H19NaO5S No Surrender...
Didn't they do the same thing with Thompsons back in the 1920's?
That benneli AR is a beauty to me personally.
What kind of dark magic is this? You have a working german subtitle?! :O
+miwove Haha, thanks for noticing. We try to keep our international viewers in mind!
+TFB TV Thanks for think is us
+TFB TV I think Egypt would have been better off to adopt the SKS instead of developing the Rasheed. The only reason they developed it was because they couldn't afford the AK-47 but the SKS was a lot more well known more reliable and easier to manufacter than the Rasheed. They should have went with the SKS like China did.
MAGPUL Masada would have been a great rifle. Then “Bushmaster” put their name on it. It’s that simple.
No on your No. If this rifle was made by MAGPUL it would be a popular rifle and would sell like crazy! If you build it (MAGPUL), accessories will come! No one is making aftermarket parts for rifles made by “Bushmaster”. Bushmaster is a marketing failure and has the reputation of Remington 1911 R1. What’s the point.
@@easyeagle3730 Magpul doesn't manufacture firearms (at least in full production scale), they manufacture firearms accessories. If anything, they should have sold the rights for their design to a more reputable company like, oh, let's say -BCM or DD.-
Edit: I take that back, BCM and DD would not bother with such a flimsy design. Bushmaster makes a lot of sense.
I have an ACR and have never had any trouble with it. Great gun and very accurate.
i love my ACR. its a damn shame bushmaster didn't support it with the barrel kits they primised. i've form 1'd it and have dumped another $1k getting it all snazzed up. im surprised you guys didn't mention the fs2000. another gun i love that didn't really catch on.
LordStickMax
The FS2000 hasn't really caught on with civilian sales, but its full-auto version carved out a decent enough niche among European and Asian militaries as a special forces weapon. It's not the second coming of the FAL or anything, but it's making money for FN.
***** about 2k. no jams yet that weren't my fault. about to send out the parts to make my barrel kit up. very excited.
LordStickMax What are you getting? Would be very cool to see that as an SBR or in 300BLK.
First is a 10.5" 5.56 barrel when I have another $500+ bucks laying around I might do up a 300 blk kit. Till then ill make an AR upper in blackout
LordStickMax I'm with you. My ACR is simply awesome. Even better with a 10.3" DD barrel. I'm almost kind of done with AR's because of the ACR. They only thing is the lack of BM support. It would almost be better if they let it go back to Magpul at this point...
I actually like the style of the Benelli. Why does everything have to look like a carbon copy AR? I, personally, like some variety in my guns.
Given the amount you guys harped on the Bushmaster, I am curious as to how it made it into your list of "Decent Rifles".
SA80: I'm the worst bullpup!
IMI/IWI Tavor(TAR-21): HOLD MY GAS SYSTEM.
Type 95- *hold my chinese polymer space gun*
@@mikhailthe3rd SAR-21 - hold my IAs
You think that Tavor is a bad gun? Really?
I love the Rasheed I’m surprised it didn’t make it since a ton of collectors would love to get there hands on one including me. It has a super cool action which is my favorite part about the rifle.
Damn! Tom Brady got a gun channel!
TheUltimateWord Tom Brady with a really weird 👕. Whatttttaaaa thossssssssse??????
I was heading to the comments say " what's this avocado toast eating Californian know about guns"
There is a song about the ar18 called "little armilite"
niall o brien n r a song. I gave em such a freight with my little arma light.
I'm from the UK and I agree, barring our elite level small scale manufactures or Accuracy International, Britain makes shit guns. Has for years. It took the MOD from the late 70s all the way through the eighties to come up with the A1 variant of the SA80. It took H&K mere months to improve it.
John S Accuracy International damn near makes up for it :)
John S that's because the uk is largely anti gun how can one make something good that they are against also the feed back from customers if there re are not many
I agree but there are many Germans who are anti-gun yet they have some of the finest firearm producers in the world, the difference is they care about their companies a lot more than the UK does
wow
John S if true why is that hk g 36 over heating?
The AR180 wasn't a failure, just nobody but Armalite made and supported them. If they weren't so expensive, I would love one. If somebody made one with a competitive price point, like say $700-$800, people would be all over them.
Part of the problem was Armalite expected a lot of commercial contracts which never happened. Then they jumped on the polymer bandwagon with their "improved" model with the plastic lower which was a dreck. I have a Costa Mesa original, and it is an excellent rifle. The only change I would have made would have been to use an FN style folding stock lock instead of the flimsy one it came out with. Other than that, I have no complaints.
Brownells makes a AR-180 upper
Well, in some ways, the AR-18 lives on with the Howa Type 89
I'm guessing you must have lots of British viewers, mainly cos we will never see these in the flesh! I took an American friend to my local "Gunshop" he walked out laughing. If more people could use and shoot here then maybe we could produce better firearms. the legislation is ridiculous here, they just don't get it. If I'm going to rob a bank I don't need any paperwork. If I am caught with anything for home defense 5 years min. Keep up the good work lads.
69waveydavey Christ mate, you Brits got it raw. My condolences. How can they outlaw self defense in the home? I guess you'll have to keep a firearm anyways or find something else to protect yourself with.
You're right, too. The only reason Britain doesn't make good guns these days is that almost no one with any engineering knowhow has ever SEEN a gun. If Britain had a healthy gun culture like they did 100 years ago, or like America does now, you'd have plenty of future firearms wizards taking apart their granddad's rifle and putting it back together for fun.
69waveydavey PA Lutey proved you don’t need a gunshop to get a gun just a hardware store
The problem with you Brits is you let your elites dictate to you too much. It's a problem here in america, but about 50% of america (traditional white americans) are pretty firmly entrenched against the lefty,homosexual, rootless cosmopolitan jews that call themselves our elites.
@@p51mustang24 I'm surprised that you don't want to move over here to Britain, what with our present ruling elite being a bunch of right wing, borderline fascists and anti Semites. You would fit right in!
The MR1 is actually a civilian legal version of the Beretta RX4 Storm assault rifle that never went anywhere. It does use the ARGO system like the Storm and some of the Benelli/Beretta sporting shotguns, but it's not simply a "dressed up" hunting rifle to look more "tactical". It has it's origins in a tactical rifle.
Plus, I know a couple of people who own them. So far, they like them.
2 grand for a mass produced POS? You can buy a match grade equivalent for that!
I guess when your gun is in Call of Duty, you can jack up the price.
Probably also why ACOG is priced at what superior scopes are also priced at.
Before I even clicked, I was like you better include the AR-18! Glad you didnt disappoint. I will never understand that one. Cheaper to make because its stamped steel, simpler too. And it has what everyone wants these days ie a piston. I guess its a classic example of one gun selling better than the other just because the military adopted it.
The lads are right in saying that only the IRA got use out of the AR-18, believe it or not those rifles are still floating around up the north, the gardaí raided an IRA safehouse in Newry or something not too long ago and found a whole crate of them and assorted other stuff. There was even a case of a few M82 rifles smuggled in from probably Boston can't say for sure and they got some use in the late 80's early 90's. Sure a 10/22 would set you back a grand worth of pens alone here.
+sergeantbigmac
If the Norwegian military hadn't already adopted the (A)G3 and 7.62, then there is a good chance that we would have chosen the AR-18. One major criteria was that the rifle could be cost-effectively license-maunfactured in a (relatively) low volume by our Kongsberg weapons plant. The AR-18 would have been perfect.
actually has more small parts than AR-15
Yup, that was the whole point of the AR-18, really. It was basically the NATO equivalent of the AKM - a decent infantry rifle that could be made cheaply by small or undeveloped nations.
Pistons are over-rated, and the piston craze has pretty much faded. They add weight, move center of gravity forward, and the rifle still gets dirty, just in a different place. The only time they are kinda nice is if you are running a suppressor.
The AR180 is something that just wasn't around long enough to catch on? I remember in the early 1970's when my little pals and me (i was 13) learned they sold them in the stores, we all wanted one. More then an AR even. The folding stock, the appearance so much awesome. If they made them now they could undersell the AR's by $300 and they;d sell every one.
They would need Magpul to mold in a mag catch notch for the 180 and it would go.
Arnold Schwarzenegger with one was great.
I really like my Benelli MR1 even though putting optics on it was a real bitch. It's fun, very accurate and there is a ton of .223 ammo out there.
A guy here in the US has redesigned that Australian Bushmaster thing. It's supposed to be actually really good. Way out of my price range though. I would love to see a head to head to head comparison of the new and old one if you ever get the chance.
5:39 - Yeah, the Masada was awesome. I was really looking forward to getting one.
Then Bushmaster bought it, and just squandered it.
Jackasses...
Ernie Velveeta how so?
I heard Magpul decided to get rid of it because they didn't have the money, and they didn't want to compete with other firearm companies.
Nearly every 4x4 in australia has bull/kangaroo bars on the front, for some reason i see them on big travel buses, ?
Honestly, I live in America but "American made" is no longer a good thing...Just means you're paying extra for something to be made shittier than if it were manufactured in other countries who actually care. Just a though.
screwloose455 Thought*
One that comes to mind is high point. And to think there's people out there that think these are something of great wonder. Factory mags are made from tin foil. Engineering from the monkey cage.
+bobwatters there was a day when if it said made in the USA. It was made in the USA, and it was the best quality you could get. Now it's used to sell junk as if it is quality. I am thankful that there is still some great gun company's in the U.S. Many,not just gun company's, sold there sole to cheep China like crap.. Dont be fooled by the USA tag. My old guns, tools, made in the USA are like gold to me.
USA manufactured goods are a mixed bag. Some manufacturers are world class, some are shitty and overpriced. Lots are good but also overpriced. Some are cheap but surprisingly good.
Why does the audio sound like the mic is in a bucket, in the bathroom, across the room from them?
It's a major conspiracy to irritate you to the point of insanity.
I own a ar180. It was made in Ca in 1969. This gun in way under rated. If you spend any time shooting this rifle you quickly see this is a great battle rifle. It is like a ak47 with the 556 advantages. You can use it with your eyes closed. I own ar15s and this 180 is a better gun. Very reliable very accurate simple to use. Folding stock and a removable scope. And stoner designed. If this gun had the years of advanced tech like the ar15? It would be modem greatness.
Farmer Dude357, brownells is making a retro reintroduction line of which the AR-180 upper is part! Check it out
The AR18 had such good potential, as a stamped steel rifle is usually less expensive than a milled aluminum one, and I think if it would have been made originally to take AR15 magazines it may have done much better commercially, just look at the popularity of AK rifles today, simple and rugged, and they don't cost near what an AR does typically. The ACR is just too expensive for most people to buy, the damn thing does just what an AR15 does yet costs almost a thousand dollars more to do it, in fact it lists for almost a thousand more than a short stroke gas pushrod AR15, and I'm not sure why as a polymer pistol will cost about five hundred dollars less than a metal framed equivalent, I thought polymer firearms were supposed to be less expensive to produce, it seems the opposite with rifles.
caveman joe Lately though, I've often heard that milling or forging is the way to go as far as expenses. But yeah, the AR-18 should have been THE rifle. It was still in an early stage of it's development, but it was still far more reliable than the M-16A1. Such a shame!
rambokicksass77
Stamping is ten times faster at least.
I have seen an engine block milled and it was so painfully slow.
Look at AK prices now that we can't import them. I can almost buy 2 ar-15's for the cost of a new usable akm. The akm was cheaper because of labor, even that field and it's cheaper to batch process forgings and cnc milling
Agreed. However, AR 15 mags can easily be modified for the 180/18.
The Bushmaster M17S design was bought by K & M Arms who upgraded and improved on the original design. They still sell the upgraded rifle in 5.56, .300 Blackout, and 7.62x51 (.308WIN). The trigger on it is not only better than any bullpups, but equal to the top tier triggers of conventional rifles.
Help us please from Australia we want ARs to be easy to obtain
jojo hindle Move to America, we will never regain the rights we have lost regarding firearms.
jojo hindleI would love nothing more than to return to Australia and drive a dritbike in the outback with an SKS strapped to my back shooting whatever. But those days are over. I'm so sorry. Come to the US m8.
You think you've got it bad, try living in the UK, before long they'll probably try banning air rifles
UK gets it easy m8 compared to us
jojo hindle At least Australia gets more than two round to shoot with.
The R1 uses the M4/M1014's A.R.G.O. (Auto-Regulating Gas Operation), so you WERE right about using one of the shotgun's designs.
Call me strange if you will, and I'm sure some will, but I want every single one of these.
Alright. You're a strange if you will.
Here in Sweden the MR1 is basically the only semiauto capable of accepting high capacity magazines since the Mini-14 was made illegal. At least in 5,56/.223 I've heard some talk about Saigas i .308 might be legal.
I love my ACR, just wish it wasn't so stinking heavy!
Any thoughts on the AR-180 B? I have one that I use just for plinking. It's great for shooting cans but I admit it's not a very well-built rifle
the Rashid is disappointing, otoh the hakim / ljungmann are fantastic rifles.
For those interested, a group called K&M Arms has improved upon the M17S design, and are beginning to release them in .300 BLK and 6.5 Grendel.
The AR-18 actually has a song about it "My Little Armalite". Personal political opinions aside, by all, this is an interesting footnote to this long obscure rifle and one not very common with many other firearms.
Good show! You guys did a really good job of talking about these.
The ACR finally has conversions, how many years later lol
And now it's gone.
A gun video I can learn something from and has cool guns keep up the great work guys.
You're the first American who I have heard admit that they appreciate us! 😄
We feel really bad that you let your capital city fall to the caliphate.
Impossible. I love the U.K.! Beautiful countries
ACR barrel conversion was a gimmick. But this is still a great gun and pretty rare in DMR.
It sucks about the ACR though. I think its alot more aesthetic than the SCARs.
***** Yea I know, Ive never thought otherwise, its just a prettier rifle.
BigJT2010 I agree...but the SCAR is made by a reputable company...I mean FN can really do no wrong, they have a contract with the Government for the 249 and the M16A4's so an actual proven record where as Bushmaster is just good at getting sued and making cloned AR15's!
nateo200 Yea Im tracking. Im currently an Army armorer, I deal with 249s and 240bs on a daily. Im fully aware the SCARs an all around better rifle, I just think the ACR is prettier. Not trying to say any different.
The SCAR is excellent in both 7.62 nato and 5.56. Just doesn't offer enough to be worth replacing the ar15/m16. I doubt any rifle ever will until the decision for a new caliber is made. The 7.62 version in particular is really excellent, but even then there are some REALLY nice AR-10's that blow out it's price point.
FYI - Miller and Stoner's AR180 was designed after the AR15 platform was adopted by the Military, and while Stoner was still with Armalite. It was Armalite's fallback design for commercial markets after the AR15 platform was taken over by Colt. They went on to develop other weapons for the Military (Stoner did, at least), but the 180, while in the running for adoption by certain US branches (and even preferred in some cases during trials) was passed over due to a few small things - such as the stamped receiver, as well as the fact that the tooling was in between manufacturers at decision time. I'm a personal fan, and I even have one in my collection that's pristine and is one of the 1st 1,000 serials out of Costa Mesa. In the late 70's and throughout the day 1980's, when the guns were very prevalent at shows, Many preppers had a prefernce for the 180 because it was rumored that you could make a small part with a piece of sheet metal, snips, and a pair of needle-nosed pliers to convert the gun from semi to select-fire in about 2 minutes. I don't know if that's true, and would never try to find out, but thought it was worth noting. Another benefit was that it was quite easy to convert GI mags to use in the gun with just a small file and drillbit. I don't recall if it was Stoner or Miller, but I once heard that the AR180 was a gun that's got AR accuracy with AK reliability and ruggedness. Sterling thought it was so great that they just copied much of the operating system for the SA80 that's in service with the Brits today.
Also - I was also an early adopter of the Masada, and share your frustration. I think the guys at Bushmaster in CT were true to their word with the platform, but the whole thing really fell apart when Remington got involved. Unfortunaly, the ACR went with the other assets, and Wyndham didn't retain the rights to that design.
Thanks for the video, very entertaining and informative.
I NEED THAT AR180!
trailduster6bt You and me both. :) So many guns, so little money.
trailduster6bt me too lol go drop 1800$ on gunbroker and its yours
01:35 I thought he was going to say "giant rectangular piece of shit" hahaha
A lot of these guns are popular up her ein Canada because of their features or lack thereof due to our laws. The MR1 is especially nice here.
The ACR is just too expensive for what it is.
The M17 i think got an upgrade not too long ago
Yes, Canada's laws never cease to baffle me! (Alex here).
I try to consider our neighbors to the north when I am doing this kind of stuff, but I also consider how small the market is (California alone has more people in it than the entirety of Canada). Still, I do like to try and consider the market, as well as others when possible. Truth be told though, gun owners in Canada are some of the most dedicated I have come across, perhaps because it is not as much a casual thing as it is here and rather requires some commitment. Our resident Canadian writer Eddie O. can drop some serious knowledge bombs on us all at times!
TFB TV
We are a dedicated bunch out of necessity. We had quite a few too many scares/wake-up calls (like the reclassification fiasco last year) that made Canadian shooters realise we're in deep doo-doo if we don't do anything.
Yes our market is small but it can be influential in some ways. Some weapon manufacturers now consider us a big enough market to create variants of weapons for us only, much like you guys have for California and New York.
I find this increasingly awesome because it makes a bigger, more influential market. Thus, it increases the amount of business it generates and economic return. Which in turn, alway affects politics. If there's one thing politicians understand, it's money. So when they pass laws that negatively affects sales and revenue...Things change.
Karine Mallet Ha, you are absolutely right!
The Benelli magazine release was designed based upon European attitudes and laws regarding rifles with magazines.
The Rasheed Rifle looks a lot like the Gewehr 43
TheWHEATISH weet Its like an m14 and a gewehr 43 had a love baby
@@eldenboi8354 More Like an AG-42 and an SKS-45.
I like the Benelli. Being left-handed I eject AR mags with my right thumb. I think I could do the same with this.
B-But i like bullpup guns.
B-but it really kinda sucks
how come, to awkward?
This one does, but I also like bull pups, even thought their triggers aren't always that great.
what about the Walther WA2000? Decent gun (from what I've read, but extremely rare and valuable)
Going to have to disagree on the MR1. If you use the mag release on the other side with your other hand, mag changes can be very fast with a bit of practice. In Canada ar's are restricted, meaning they can only be taken to approved ranges. The MR1 can be transported, carried, and fired like any standard hunting rifle, making it much more usable than an ar. If I lived in the states, I would probably agree with you, but honestly this thing has grown on me and I would never part with it.
The fact that a rifle doesn't sell well in the US doesn't make it a "spectacular commercial failure - I don't know why they made it". The MR1 sells pretty well on markets that are not AR15-obsessed (AKA markets where a rifle being accurate, reliable and clean counts more than it looking tacticool even if it's really a $600 jam-o-matic). The "blatant design flaw" is in your mind also. When you change a magazine, you happen to have to move an hand anyway, you can very well use it to press the magazine release button, like you do on many classic and modern AR designs. IE, the ability to reach the release button with the finger of your shooting hand is so fundamental that the Germans didn't put it in their G36 service rifle.
I cannot believe you said “like other assault rifles” AR does not mean Assault Rifle!!!
AR means ArmaLite Rifle not assault rifle!!!
No shit shirlock. The guns were designed as assault rifles for military use and then a civilian version was produced lol
It's sad too see the ACR fail like it did because it was cool looking and ergonomic unlike the other guns on this vid
There is a company in Arizona who has updated and improved upon the old Bushmaster M17S. Tim @ Military Arms Channel did a review on one and liked it.
www.kmarms.com/
Pertaining to the ACR hopefully when FB Radom USA finally is up and running their MSBS which they said they would bring to market will be what the ACR should have been and then some including the ability to become a bullpup! At least Poland will be more appreciative to the U.S. gun market trying to make a name for itself unlike the arrogance and liars over at Freedom Group.
Yes we would love to test one of their updated M17 rifles! They look like they have solved many of its ergonomic faults.
I'm surprised there's nothing from Madsen Arms in Denmark on this list. They had terrible luck with their guns. They came out with a great SMG, right after WW2 when there was a surplus of them. They came out with a great bolt action rifle, right when everyone was switching to semi auto. Just all around bad luck for them.
Re: Bushmaster ACR. *Four Years Later* still no 6.8 SPC.
KelTec RDB 20, I know it's not included and may not have failed yet, technically, but it's got the best bullpup trigger ever and I recommend the 20" because it's surprisingly accurate. The later production models, 2018 and up, have the bugs worked out and are extremely reliable.
I would suggest the USFA Zip gun.
For one of the worlds crappiest firearm ideas ever? Agreed! Lmao
kromoism That is not a decent firearm.
+kromoism Underated comment 8), the zip guns should be removed from the gene pool lol.
1996 was a disaster for gun owners in Australia. .All those guns crushed and destroyed.
there is a joke out there that goes like this: the only thing ever made in England that didn't suck........was a vacuum cleaner!
Nice video. I only knew about 2 out of 5 of this guns (AR-180, ACR). So that's plenty of new information for me. Thanks!
would a sks work for taking down wild hogs here in Texas ?
I would take an M1A over a sks, but yes, the sks would work fine.
I love the ACR, hope to get one soon
I've said this for a while, and I almost always get hate for it, BUSMASTER IS GARBAGE!
That said I plan to get an ACR just out of curiosity. Got lots of AR's
I want to get one just to have something different, and I think the SCAR is ugly.
solus48 HOW DARE YOU DISGRACE THE ALL MIGHTY SCAR! that being said, i actually love the way that the scar h looks. scar l looks good with short mags. looks like a mini scar lol
Personally I don't like the fold up stock.
Hey guys, the acr and the mr1 are quite popular here in canada, because they are considered unrestricted. Ar15s are restricted here, so we can't hunt with them on our lands.
5 guns, isn't that a Iraqverran segment?
I can see a Ranger liking the AR18. Folding stock for storage in a vehicle and it was one of the first flat top rifles with a scope rail.
No apologies to the English. The sun never sets on the British empire cuz God don't trust the Brits in the dark.
As the Sun never sets on the British empire there ALWAYS been dark part of it.
Nice echo. How big a room are you in?
I hate the AR-15... But that is more because of there users for the most part.. But i'm not a big fan of that ether. I'm a FAL guy.
+WilliamM. Laowai by day. So you're a fall guy. You're just the guy we need when things go wrong..
otacon333x2 Oh, some one get there little AR feelings hurt? And Yes I am just the guy you need when things go wrong. Actually trained in marksmanship, a Weapon that I wont spend half the fire fight unjamming, a round that will put someone on there ass and penetrate cover and can use the FAL to actually hit something more then say 500 meters away. (Thought I don't think you could manage to hit anything at that distance) Most AR enthusiasts I have ever met are actually kind of shitty shots. (Actually most non-military trained hunters are kind of lack luster shots)
You got that right brother! The FAL was the "right arm of the free world". So that made YOU the right arm of the free world. And my right arm! That alone makes it a rifle to love.
"Fall guy" is just an attempt at humor with a play on words.
But don't get too "up in arms" about the AR. The AR was very controversial at the time it was adopted, and many in the traditionalist US military would have preferred something like the FAL, I'm sure. But no rifle has proved to be perfect,including the FAL, and it's all trade offs. The AR was adopted for sound, objective, reasons. It's also a system that's been in constant development ever since, and by now, is the most versatile, adaptable, system around. But you know that, I'm sure. Even countries that did use the FAL have switched to rifles that are more like the AR.
I don't know what you have against AR users, except non-military hobby shooters not being good shots. I wouldn't expect them to be. Maybe cut your free world brothers some slack? If AR users tend to be defensive, about the rifle, it may be when the criticism of it is unreasonable, incorrect, or just expressing thinly veiled hate of the United States and Americans.
Nah its not that I have a problem with all AR users. It's more a matter of "Not all AR users are shitbags. But most Shitbags own AR's" It's not a bad rifle. (For hobby shooting) But its overrated. I can find a better gun. If you like the AR that's fine. I had a bad experience with the M15 in the army. And its just that ever annoying ass seams to own one, not that every one with a AR is a annoying ass. Also the FAL Is just a amazing weapon. It the G-36 and the M-14 are the best weapons I have ever used.
WilliamM. Laowai by day. I can appreciate everything you're saying. I have a similar feeling about the AK-47! But it's not really anything about the rifle itself, per se. It's the AK cult I hate. But the rifle has a lot of objective virtues despite it's devotees. And many people whose opinion I respect hold the rifle in high regard, But to me, it's not the ultimate weapon it's cultist believe it is, so I consider it way overrated. And of course, not everyone who uses one is a cultist about it.
The AR has had a very controversial history, and it's still controversial even today. Going light does involve some pretty big trade offs to gain other advantages. Maybe trends will start moving in the opposite direction again. I notice that the US has dusted off the M-14 again in Afghanistan. But rifles seem to be just getting smaller and lighter all the time.
But maybe we're actually like ancient warriors already, arguing whether a long sword is better than a short sword, while changes we can't even foresee, will inevitably make swords themselves obsolete?
The Bushmaster ACR is awesome. I'd love to have it
The ACR is without a doubt one of the best rifles ever made. I've run over 25,000 rounds through mine, ZERO failures.
Bennelli MR1 ...Best rifle in market in Canada! I Love it!
The MR1 is not the same operating system as benelli shotguns. Their shotguns have no gas system whatsoever. They operate purely on inertia which is the entire advantage. Their rifles use a similar rotating bolt design but they have a gas piston system.
There are gunsmiths who specialize in conversion kits for the ACR, there's a site called ACR forum where fans of the rifle go to wallow in their sadness, and they make some really cool barrels and bolts for it.
Great video.
Could you do a Top 5 series of guns per region? Like per Asia, per Africa, per Europe, per North America, and per South America?
I don't know why, but I just love this oddball stuff. Any of those guns could be fun plinkers. The Egyptian rifle looked like an amalgamation of several different models. Still, very cool. Thanks guys!
The biggest issue with the ACR and the MR1 is the price for what you get. The MR1 is more popular in canada because the AR15 is restricted to gun ranges only so people buy it as a substitute. In canada it retails for just under $2000 which is outrageous for what you're getting. My buddy has one and it jams quite a lot compared to my $850 Mini 14 that hasn't had a feeding issue yet. For $2000, my gun better feed well.
The name of the video is literally 5 DECENT rifles that failed. And then the first gun comes around and it has bad ergonomics, bad trigger, bad iron sights, sucks at shooting. What about that speaks “I’m a decent rifle”
Love the MR 1From what I understand it’s a very reliable Benelli made I wish I could afford it that’s the only problem I see
With the Bushmaster ACR, the better ones are the ones made before the company was bought out and moved locations they are made in some Alabama factory now with new owners. The good ones are the Bushmaster Windham Made ones. The former employees and founder of Bushmaster stayed behind and made a new company called Windham Weaponry from the old Bushmaster factory. They make some high quality ARs.
i love the part Patrick is like this might be a little more reliable than the mini14, and Alex is rolling his eyes and shaking his head, lol
Just so you know, not sure whether this is just a me problem or what but the brightness on this video is really high for me. Your faces look like they are glowing
"Five *DECENT* Rifles That Failed Commercially"
*Literally just roasts the first one and names no redeeming qualities about it*
You REALLY sold the Bushmaster M17s short. I've had one for years and with a few minor mods (change the charging handle / carry handle, lighten it up a little with some cutout holes, and add some rails to mount optics) have found it to be a reliable and very accurate rifle. It's a bullet proof design, easy to clean (it's based on the AR-18, the second gun you talk about in this video, Ironic?) and since you can get them for fairly cheap, you can get the Mods (K & M Aerospace is a one stop shop that does great work at a really reasonable price.)
TFB: "The AR-18 failed commercially and the version that took AR mags was horrible."
Brownells: "And I took that personally..."
i saw the rw1 in a manga i read once and fell in love with how it looked, i remebered seeing them at cabelas at one point but could never find one remember what they were called still want to pick one up though just to have it
I got one for you: the Sig Sauer 556 chambered in 7.62 x 39.
The AR 180 was supposedly designed to eliminate the flaws of the AR 15. Better gas system, no case assist, easier charging handle, better/flatter sights due to lack of the carrier handle. When it came out it was better than the AR 15.