Britain Makes Worst Tank Destroyer, Asked To Leave Allies
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- Опубликовано: 31 янв 2023
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The Archer has got to be one of the worst vehicles in War Thunder. You would expect something with a 17-pounder cannon to perform pretty well at a battle rating of 2.7, but its odd configuration and slow reverse speed make it a massive pain to play. It's funny that it's a 1944 vehicle. Historically it should be facing stuff like the Tiger and Panther, but it faces Panzer IIs instead. Not that I think Gaijin should move it up.
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Britain Makes Worst Tank Destroyer, Asked To Leave Allies 
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As lazerpig once said, the British really tried to Wallace and Gromit their way through WWII
We had too man we were fighting on our own for literal years before anyone helped 😅
As Churchill was perpetually drunk, so is Lazerpig.
But it worked didn't it?
Sir! Gun's too big!
Put it in sideways...
Sir! There's no room for the radio!
Cut a hole in the back of the turret and have it stick out the back!
Sir! The engine's not powerful enough!
GET FIVE CAR ENGINES AND PUT THEM TOGETHER!
Tf does that mean 🤣
The funny thing to point out is that this vehicle is in battlefield 5 and it’s reverse speed in that game is just as fast as it’s regular speed
And it has a turret
@@conneryee8710 no?
Also it doesn't have inverted controls, as they made cannon side also the driver direction.
Battlefield 5 is basically Hollywood WW2, so it doesn't surprise me.
I guess the trade off is that the hp system of bf5 means that the best place to hit someone is the engine, making it a very vulnerable target.
I loved the part where british engineers took a 30 ton heavy tank and used a lawnmower engine as the powerplant
tf u mean lawnmower? desktop fan engine
@@apefish NATO? in 1944?
@@Seygem Looks like someone didn't pay attention in history class, eh? XD
@@apefish nato was made after ww2
'Cause in WWII British armoured doctrine, the Valentine was an infantry tank, and thus never needed to go faster than your average soldier could. Its primary role was always to be mobile cover and fire support for troops, so armour was the priority in its design, not mobility. If the British Army needed more mobile armour, then they had a whole range of purpose-built cruiser tanks to choose from.
I really expect to do really poorly with this thing and then it ALWAYS goes really well. It's a lot of fun to play after you've gotten a bit more experienced at the game. It's just a shame some newer players get this when they start Britain as their main nation and are completely mind f'd by how you need to drive it! 😂
Well, same deal with America and M3 Lee. Tank mops the floor with enemy, but getting there requires you to have master degree in multiturreted tanks and bachelor degree in non-turreted SPG.
Advice: dont be Brit main
Bro really said Spookston needs to git gud
Totally agree I love the archer and play it regularly
The cannon is just incredible good at that BR and you can actually just disappear if needed when in a fire position
To understand how British anti-tank doctorine worked, TD's like achilles & Archer were ment to provide mobile anti-tank support while towed 17PDR's were set up in positions. this is completly diffrent than US & German TD doctorine. edit after toilet break= This is the reason why British classified them as SPG's. They litteraly were self propelled guns. They equipped royal artillery and anti-tank regiments wich consisted of 2x Towed 17 PDR's, one achilles/archer & 1 M10 battery. The role remained the same. Towed guns get into position, SPG's covered them.
Was going to comment this! Thank you! There is someone else who knows about this
Tactically speaking, this really isn't all that different to US Tank Destroyer doctrine.
Tank Destroyers were about a mobile reserve to place themselves ahead of enemy armoured pushes - but they would engage from prepared positions much like an AT gun.
TDs were not intended to go run&gunning across the battlefield either.
@@kirotheavenger60 Now that you mention it. The US reinforced their TD regiments with the towed m5 76mm.
@@F4Wildcat also the Archer didn’t see much/any action, that’s according to the documentation I’ve seen. It was in theatre during the Normandy campaign, 15th (Scottish) Division having a few for purposes of testing, but none saw action
@@kirotheavenger60 They were quite different what are you talking about. The US Doctrine was mobile and quick response to stop a breakthrough of bltizkrieg. British doctrine was half artillery thats why they had them with the Royal Artillery they were used as both for the brits while american SPGs were meant to be able to be mobile to move past german anti tank guns. Yes they were not intened to run and gun but they were meant to be fast and mobile to tactically move into postion. Very different types of defense
I remember unlocking the Archer and being seriously confused as to why it spawned facing backwards the first time I used it.
Nah on god I was so confused
From what I remember, it was used by the Royal Artillery as a mobile antitank gun and it was well liked by the crews who had previously had 17pdrs on carriages.
It was generally liked by the royal artillery, but hated by armoured units when they got them lol
Yeah, it was an SPG, not really a tank destroyer
@@danielearl3591It was also, with it's original designation, an Ambush Tank, in which is one of the additional reasons for the gun to be mounted backwards.
As an Ambusher, the idea was to have Archers reach a position ahead of an enemy advance and wait. Once they reach tier position, they would reverse in and have the gun facing the expected enemy, and after firing off upon in countering them, they would get out of the area immediately, which with the gun mounted in reverse, the front of the actual tank would be facing away from the enemy and it would be able to accelerate at full speed rather than needing to reverse and turn.
Spookston: "it's a bad tank"
Also Spookston: "proceeds to get more kills in one game than i do in one day"
Well its not “bad” its weird, but once you learn it its a beast
It is not a tank
Premiuns power my friend, premium power
@@l.h.r-gamer8300archer ain’t premium
@@DarrenSloanwhat is it then?
I really do love the odd designs you get at low BR. By mid-BR everything gets samey and loses those gimmicks and weaknesses that really differentiate vehicles. The Archer really is a lovely tank destroyer for that reason, even though its gun outshines every other aspect of it.
Post WWII soviet tanks are quite literally identical. Only difference I can find is an extra well for the post t-62 designs
@@Roy-tp4qq That's because 80% of the post war Soviet tanks in War Thunder never saw service. After the war, Russia decided they should only have one medium tank, one breakthrough tank, and an IFV, and they've kept that model to this day. It's a good economic decision, but doesn't make for a good tech tree
3.7 to 6.3 is Shermanfest
@@filmandfirearms don't really think that's how they operate now considering they still modernize T-80's and T-90's have multiple variations of IFV's/APC's, and "produce" the T-14. Not to mention the theoretical AA also pretty capable of pulling IFV duty, and other tanks like the Sprut which don't really follow breakthrough or medium tank imo.
Nah it's more like 7,3-top tier everything starts being more or less the same, legit every top tier mbt is the same and around 7,3 every nation has either a copy of the leopard 1 or gepard lol
And yet in reality it was very popular with it's crews, a low sillhouette, 17pdr gun and the ability to reverse into position, put rounds on target and then escape return fire with all your forward gears, it was in reality very good.
Although the M10 with 17pdr was more popular owing to the fully traversable turret.
"Shoot and scoot" is somewhat exaggerated with this vehicle - that isn't why it was facing backwards.
^ Not really no. The designers of Archer knew what they were doing. They had to mount the gun this way in order to fit it into the Val's relatively small chassis (that much is true), but also knew there was potential usefulness in not having to turn round to reposition after shooting.
@Jim Taylor that wasn't a deliberate part of the design, it was designed backwards" only so that the gun would fit.
Not a lot of people realize the M901 was used the same way. You back into position, pop up the hammerhead to engage two targets, drop the hammerhead, and get the heck out of dodge. You reload somewhere else. We had a new PL who was very disturbed by not keeping your front to the enemy, and we had to explain it to him real slow-like, and even then you could tell it physically hurt him to do it that way.
^×2 False; though it figures that some random dude on youtube would claim that without an ounce of evidence, when in reality there's no way it wasn't considered during the design work... as after all those doing so had to actually sell the idea to those holding the purse strings.
Wow. On the one hand, I can see sort of what it's for. You drive to position, you set up, you shoot stuff, and if shot back, you scoot backwards(which is actually forwards) at full speed and get out of there quickly. On the other, it really is dreadful in a video game. And they probably could have updated the drive train.
And actually used in that manner.
The reason it was backwards was to fit and balance the long gun.
It wasn't especially designed for "shoot and scoot".
They actually did update the drivetrain, but the only change was a different ratio on the final drives I believe, which is what results in the higher top speed either direction. Sadly no full speed set of reverse gears.
I mean, this tank kind of makes sense in a real world sense. They can have a relatively static long gun but still traverse terrain by itself. It doesn’t really make sense in a fast paced team death match
Its not a tank, its a SPG.
@@JohnyG29 An entirely irrelevant comment to make. Well done.
@@JohnyG29 🤓
Lot’s of tanks do not work in a Death-Match
I am compelled to remind people that the Archer isn’t a TD but merely an SPG, and it was effective and well-liked by the artillery men who used them.
TD is more or less just a pretentious name for SPG anyways.
It actually was used as an TD in africa, it worked amazingly well cuz it was basically a wait, hit and run tactic, just bonk a panzer IV and rush to cover
It’s basically the same thing as Russian Su-76, but with inverted internals for no particular reason.
@Алексей Чехович it was inverted due to weight, length, and height.
If the gun had been pointed forwards it would have stuck far out the front of the tank, meaning it'd get caught on obstacles and get stuck in the ground, and would also have made the vehicle way too front heavy (these problems cropped up with the Soviet SUs, particularly the -100).
The alternative would have been to mount the gun further back, placed on top of the engine block in the style of the German Marders. But here the problem would be the vehicle would be a much higher profile.
@@alexey_chekhovich The reason is they wanted to get a late war heavy AT gun on an existing early war infantry tank chassis without having to completely rebuild it.
Oh my goodness, I never thought the day would come! I personally have a burning passion for the Archer, as people tend to underestimate the 17 pounder. Performs beautifully even at 5.7, love it.
It performs pretty well at 11.0 as well because not many people expect you to be hiding around a corner and so you can easily destroy them
agreed
when the M1A1 sees the shot from the archer in the kill cam(it should not be underestimated)
The gun really is the absolute best at its BR
The Archer is in general really fun to use once you learn to not treat it as a tank but as a mobile 17 pounder sniper rifle. You play by either finding a nice defensive spot and snipe people from it, or, if you are in arcade mode and are planning to meme on people, play Initial D and drift shot people from the flanks. That actually got me 6 kills in the thing before I got HE shelled because in arcade people generally forget to check the flanks, like the German mains at 4.0-6.0
I actually really like the Archer, at 2.7 I find the 17pdr to be a good old point and click adventure
Like everything about this tank is terrible, but the gun is like *mmmmwah chefs kiss*
@unlink1649 that's just the British tech tree up until like, rank 4
Could you do a video on the British striker please? As a British main this would make me very happy
Along the same line, I'd love to see some Challenger 1 and 2 games
A fellow masochist I see. Striker is one of my favorite vehicles even if the swing fire does make me want to off myself from time to time. Can even do pretty well against helicopters
@Hayabusa003 yea the British tree is very meh, but there's some really cool stuff hidden away, not used the striker or Swingfire myself
also the g6 and rooikat
@@mikewizz1895 ah yes, the G6 my favourite SPAA in the tech tree
The bongs took “put it in reverse Ter” to a whole new level
I’ll always remember starting out in war thunder and mainly looking at penetration values. This thing seemed perfect. Imagine my surprise when I looked at it’s butt in the hangar when I first unlocked it haha
As a British main (yes, I know), I always kinda like playing the archer. It also was very painful.
I always went with the "drive backwards and the just whip 'er around when you find baddies" strategy.
This TD has a special tactic in the arcade: reverse, then swing the tank around and shoot. Gamble, but fun trick. The 17 pounder is strong in this BR ( pens everything, everywhere) but these limitations ( slow speed, reverse mount) and making it balanced for that br. 6+/10
Part 24 of asking for 76 jumbo
Didnt he already do a Jumbo video?
@@highjumpstudios2384 yesn’t
I actually love the Archer, It's my favourite British tank in War Thunder. You figured out the best method of use part way, and that is not going -4km/h towards your enemies at all times. Instead doing 180s on them when the least expect it. other than that, get into a good sniping position then 180. if you take a hit go 'forward' to hull down and repair. My kill record is on this tank, IIRC it is >20.
I'm fairly certain in the past 2 years they lowered the british 76mm APBCs spalling. it just barley deals damage nowadays. I remember playing the concept 3 when it first came out and doing pretty good damage, now it's barley useable at all cause half your shots don't crit what they should or they don't even pen.
Yeah, Gaijin really stealth nerfed the 17 pounder into the ground. You really do have to snipe every crew member 75% of the time.
I just adore these "X makes worst Y, asked to leave Z"
You're a genius Spooks, keep doing these lmao 🤣 😂
2:40 In War Thunder, even the Russian slums have anti-spall coating
I feel like the Archer is a must play for new players as it literally forces you to explore other methods of play like sniping, camping and not rushing straight at the enemy, which even if you're against, you need to know how to counter, which is helped if you know how to play that way. You also actually have to think about what you're doing and plan carefully or you just instantly die. "Looks at Germany players".
This things only saving grace is that the gun is ridiculously powerful for the BR and everyone at that BR range seems to be completely oblivious when going peaking corners. This tank is actually pretty good on city maps where you can look down the roads perpendicular to spawn.
Hi Spookston, could you make a video about the ST-A3? It's a very interesting tank that not many people play
I'm surprised how well you did in the Archer, cause I never had any luck with it. Also can you do the Mars-15? Cheers.
yeeess Mars-15
4:24
That happens because once the game assumes that the guy whos ammo rack has been hit will die, doesnt bother to continue the simulation of the shrapnel damaging the other parts in the tank apart from the ammo rack
These videos are the perfect mix of suffering, joy, gameplay and memes
Once I had a test. For some reason I was thinking about the archer and accidentally wrote that down. The teacher marked it right. Idk why
can you do a video on the type75 sph? its really nutty with hevt buff
Im not familiar with it, what was buffed on the shell?
@@webig1805 a while back its hevt wouldn't fuse properly but a few updates ago it was fixed, so now you can airburst planes and shoot over tanks to easily overpressure them its insane
3:20 that whistling got me laughing so much
Due to your comment about it in the video and the fact i don'tbelive you have played it in a video yet, the M4A3 (105) could be a very intresting video idea. it is personally one of my favorite vehicals and i would love to see you play it.
You should take out the mini Doom Slayer, the ZUT-37
If you had played the crusader II at 2.3, you'd have a momentary softening on British tanks. 5 crew, excellent mobility, fast firing and high pen gun, endless smoke launchers- it was a dream for players who wanted to flank and even go face to face and rely on their wits and situational awareness
4:22, there was no spall because the game already said "alright we dont need to calculate spall, the ammunition got blown up so the vehicle is gonna die 100%"
this is the reason why high tier russian tanks dont get any spall damage, because the game says the vehicle will die due to ammo explosion but doesnt
11:50 *CAS takes skill you know.* That guy had to time his _spacebar_ pressing just right. He had like a mere 5 second window of opportunity. That's commendable.
Ah yes the reverse T O N K
If you want to try some weird tank fun, try playing the Type 60 SPRG. I love thing thing and its goofy marketplace camo, but it certainly is a challenge with only 10 rounds and without the increased mobility compared to the R3 T106
The archer is one of the best tanks and I have some of my highest kill games in it. I managed to overpenetrate and kill a swedish tank destroyer, and then penetrated a Samoa or D2 and also kill it. First time I got a double kill with conventional rounds. The main reason I like it is because I can penetrate anything I look at, and it has a very fast reload rate
7:45 "OUI!"
- Spookston, 2023
I actually love the Archer! The fast reload rate and the powerful gun make it a quintessential td, and that reverse look can be an upside, you can run away often in a kind of “shoot and scoot” way
I would like to see you play the AML-90. Theres a british version too. It's a prius with a 90mm heat launcher
11:47 poor spook got spooked
Best french tank design. "As you run away shoot back at the enemies chasing you" concept put into practice.
The Archer is probably the most Sprocket looking tank anyone had ever made.
You should do the Zachlam Tager, a half track at 6.7 what’s not to like
With the Archer, you can have the wonderful experience of being an anti-tank gun crew in a battlefield full of *actual* tanks and strafing planes!
You going French at 7:45 absolutely killed me. Love your content, as always.
Whats crazy is that they didn’t even bother flipping the drive train so the tank could at least be semi mobile
It was designed like this so they could drive to the general area they needed to be in, then reverse into the exact spot they wanted. From there, they could engage a few targets the drive away if they got in trouble. They didn't want to engineer a transmission with more reverse gears, so they designed this thing.
The idea was basically that it could "reverse" really fast to run away. Which I guess if the idea is to let it sit still behind some bushes for long periods and not play a mobile role at all it's. I guess not a terrible idea in theory but it's just not good.
Like I can understand someone coming to that conclusion in that period, it's just wrong.
@Bread-kun that wasn't the deliberate intention. It was designed backwards only because the gun would be far too long and front heavy if it was mounted forwards.
You can see by the fact that no other vehicles were designed "backwards" that it wasn't a deliberate doctrinal design.
I actually found this thing a lot easier to use than I thought it would. It's not great but the gun at its BR is a beast.
It's insane how much nostalgia whiplash I get ever time I watch a spookston video and notice the Generals soundtrack in the background.
Hey now, the tactic of "get into a good spot and wait for someone to drive by" is definitely a valid one.
I wasn't in an Archer but that ambush tactic is precisely how I got a perfect kill shot on the left side of a Panther D yesterday.
Gaijin needs to make a Ground only mode and change the current ground forces mode into mixed battles cause that's what it is.
It would be fun if you played the arl 44 the 3.7 one
You laugh, but I think this was the most amusing of your videos so far. This was great!
I'd love to see you play the AFT09.
I've recently unlocked it and love it a lot!
Love to see you play it and your game style and your option on the tank.
A 4.7 gun at 3.3 works wonders, even if the hull is kinda broken, had fun with this thing but its a one trick pony.
Could you play the Somua 40 the french TD, its quite fun?
Attempt#8
You mean 2.7. It's a 2.7 tank.
You should play the Italian M41M 90/53. Weird chassis but the gun is simply a joy to shoot.
Great video mate
I didnt even wanna spade that vehicle but then I've forced myself and on the end I was liking it - it has VERY powerful gun for it's BR
Valentine is a medium tank or an infantry tank by British classification
Also skill issue
It's an infantry tank, which is analogous to a heavy tank in role and design. Cruiser tanks like the Crusader and Cromwell were closer to medium tanks. You aren't going to try and seriously argue that the Churchill is a medium tank, are you?
@@Spookston Fun fact: Technically the soviet T-60/70 series is a sort of infantry tank. The T-70 is alright but the T-60 is quite painful.
@@heavytube7890 T-60/70/80 were always considered light tanks. At some point they were even suggested to be punched out of tanks classification since they could be produced concurrently on automotive factories, freeing manufacturing "slots" for actual tanks. Being deployed en masse without being designated to actual tank unit added weight to this argument as well.
Also, T-60 is not really proper design. Day one of Great Patriotic War resulted in massive loss of planes on their airfields (Many were mothballed, expecting their refit from machineguns to autocannons), which left the industry with big surplus of autocannons without chassis to mount it on.
@@burningsinner1132 On the T-60 not being a proper design - i'm afraid to say that it was. The designs started as a non-amphib T-40, first with a DSHK, and evolved from there. The idea of a surplus of autocannons seems to come out of nowhere.
Also, this ties into the first part - the original idea for the T-60 was a non-amphib T-40, and a sequel to the T-26 and it's failed projects (T-46 etc). Reminder that soviet light tanks were infantry support tanks, not the western definition of a light tank, more like the french definition.
The brits just pre-empted the backwards IS-2 strat. Only issue, they forgot the IS-2.
The constant reversing is so great
Can’t believe Pulkz suggested this. I watch both, and it is always strange to see creators that aren’t known for interacting with other creators interact with other creators.
Still super sick to see and I love it, and good vid Spookston.
If not for the reverse speed being utter dogwater this would be far more enjoyable, 17 pounder at 2.7 is hella nasty.
Also can you do a video on the IS-4M please?
Could you play as the M41A1 or T92?
T92 would be awesome to see
When playing the archer, you need to master the art of the drift
Very fun thing to play. Makes you think, plan forward and be calm
The jump between tank talk to water bottle talk gave me whiplash
The valentine archer (valentine was an infantry tank so it would qualify as medium to heavy) was designed and fielded before the firefly, it was an attempt to have a mobile 17 pounder that could also retreat very quickly, hence why its mounted backwards (and because the gun was too heavy to mount forwards), as British tanks aren't known for reverse speed, so it could speed off "forwards" when needing to retreat. As you can see it wasn't very good and as soon as the firefly came around its uses stopped because there was a much easier platform for the 17 pounder
I would love for you to play the Semovente 105/25, an italian 3.0 vehicle that's really low profile but has a very fun 105mm APHE cannon
Great vid 👌, a vid on one of the Centauros would be cool :D
These titles man... I love this series
Just started playing WT a couple months ago and picked the British tech tree, so everytime someone uploads War Thunder content with British and some fine tea in it I click lol, appreciate your music of choice by the way, Generals is one of my favorite Childhood games back then, brings me back memories. Archer can really be a threat with a bit of patience, It feels really good to pen the front of M4 105's and watch their turrets fly after some time of just shrugging off my solid shots with the other tanks haha, anyways Cheers for the upload! 🍻
I enjoyed this tank alot, used it far back to support other tanks sniping. was annoying to use at first but once you get the hang of it and the right maps it does really well
I love the sound of the engine of that thing!
I mean the speedometer describes it perfectly: Its so slow it moves forward at a negative speed
I love playing the Archer, you just drive forward, whip a sick 180 drift and pray that you manage to land your first shot
Glad to know I’m not the only one who’s noticed that there is something very wrong with the damage model for the 17pdr solid shot
This is why I keep the 2c bis in my French lineup it may weigh 70t and only go 16kph but it also goes 16kph in reverse lol so I can retreat as fast as I got to the battle.
I appreciate deaths whistle, great video as always. Tank suggestion the Pak40 puma
I live near a municipal airport. The favorite game I play when wearing headphones is "Do I hear incoming CAS or someone landing IRL?".
That tank is its own challenge. Thanks for the battles that I never wish to even attempt.
7:58 I told you my ghost would haunt you.
I don't blame that StuG at 6:40. With how fucked gaijin's damage direction indicators are, i'm sure the game told him that he got shot from his right (because you hit his right plate)
I almost died when you got a crit from dropping ontop of that guy, it was like you dropped the peoples elbow on him, super effective.
And that comand and conquer generals music perfection
“Look how they massacred my boy” - The guy who designed the Valentine
It was built well as I remember an ambush tank so it made sense to do it this way as that way you can escape quick along with shooting back
All i saw in my notification was bad british tank destroyer before i immediately thought, "yep its the archer"
truly one of the Britain Makes Worst Tank Destroyer, Asked To Leave Allies, Also keep up the good work, Spookston, love ur vids!
When I played this game, I was a waffenträger main. You get to experience my pain when you reverse with the archer. (Gun forwards)
3:20 Hehehe, the sound of Death. Nice movie.
You can key bind buttons for cruise control, and that might help the finger problem.
Thanks you have encouraged me to spade the archer
The Churchill GC, Tortoise tanks, and who could forget the "just make a bigger turret lmao" 4005, Challenger and Conway.