Ireland in the Second World War
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- When the United Kingdom declared war on Germany on September 3, 1939, Ireland, despite being still technically a dominion of the United Kingdom, elected to stay out of the war, choosing instead to remain neutral, the only member of the British Commonwealth to do so. Neutrality offered both advantages and challenges, and the choice is still controversial today. The History Guy recalls the unique position of Ireland during the Second World War.
This is original content based on research by The History Guy. Images in the Public Domain are carefully selected and provide illustration. As very few images of the actual event are available in the Public Domain, images of similar objects and events are used for illustration.
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All events are portrayed in historical context and for educational purposes. No images or content are primarily intended to shock and disgust. Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Non censuram.
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Script by THG
#wwii #thehistoryguy #Ireland
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An American B 17 bomber crashed into Belfast cavehill mountain, in 1944 killing all on board. 50 years later, a man walking his dog found a wedding ring that belonged to the radio operator and was returned to his widow in 2005.
That's wonderful
I heard a story about a US transport en route to the US at the end of the war that crashed in the mountains of Kerry and happened to be full of bicycles that had been used on air bases. There were no survivors and by the time the authorities were notified the bicycles had vanished. So a Kerryman told me ...
Thank you for sharing this piece of history with me !
@@steveclark4291 You're welcome. I made a video on my RUclips channel going into more detail of the tragic accident because I'm from Belfast ruclips.net/video/nDZXx4IhuQ0/видео.html
fantastic - thanks for sharing that one
This has a very tenuous connection to your video, but dad died Saturday and I just want to share a story about him:
My grandfather emigrated to Massachusetts from County Cork. My father was drafted into the US Army. As the war was ending, dad was given a leave and left the line with no time to clean up. While on his way to the leave in London, dad met an Irish-born solider who had been fighting in the US Army, but who had lived in London. The Irish guy tells dad that Ireland had just lifted neutrality and he was going to see his family. Dad decides the Army can get along without him for awhile and joins in the trip and the Irish guy starts them screaming around London to get tickets, visas, etc. They arrive in Ireland a day later dressed in 3rd hand civves. Dad knows his family is somewhere near Millstreet, so the Irish guy gets him a ticket to Cork and wishes him good luck. Dad doesn't know Millstreet is a town and is bumbling around Cork. All his toiletries are in a US ammo bag, so everywhere he goes he's spotted as a Yank and asked where he's from? When he says "Boston", he's invariably asked, "Boston!? My cousin Frank's in Boston. Do you know him?". Eventually, someone gets him on a bus out of Cork towards Millstreet and tells him to get off at the Baly Dally church and his grandmother's house will be right there. As it's getting dark, the bus drops dad off at a lonely crossroad in the middle of nowhere. Between him and the distant mountain he can see the lights of three houses, so he starts walking. When he knocks on a door, no one opens and they just tell him to keep moving. When he gets to the last house, his deaf grandmother tells him to go away and he can't explain who he is. He's beat, and has nowhere else to go, so he enters and takes a chair while my 90-something Great-Grandma arms herself with a utensil of some type and retreats to a corner while threatening him. The stalemate ends when an Uncle/Cousin who heard there's a Boston Yank looking for the family shows up. From that point, he's treated like a king and he's offered a comfortable bed. The bed owner slept naked and didn't see any reason to change his ways just because he had a visitor. It freaked dad out a little, but in the end dad got the last laugh. For years the family talked about dad's surprise visit- and the scabies and lice he left behind in the bed.
That is a story that a true combat vet tells. 411. Ready To Strike.
That's a great story Terry, well worth the telling. I'm sure he had many more. May he rest in peace my friend.
Terrific story, loved it.
Especially the part about Great-Grandma with "a utensil of some type". (Did she know Rapunzel from Tangled? 😉)
Love that story and you did a great job telling it. Dad would be proud. 😁
Brilliant story Terry. Your Dad was some character. I bet he had loads of great stories.
The woman who took that weather report passed to the allies that seen the postponement of D-Day is sill alive and living near Blacksod lighthouse where she took the data. Not to far away from me.
Would she be willing to do an interview?
Her name is Maureen Sweeney and she's in a nursing home in Belmullet. 96 years young. I believe she has dementia so may not be in a position to be interviewed but this article may help in contacting her family.
www.irishcentral.com/news/irish-world-war-ii-hero-covid19
Thank you for sharing this piece of history with me !
Please go to her and ask if you can record her life, what a precious piece of history. where did she grow up? What was her education? How did she get the job in first place? What were her other duties during the war (battle for the atlantic?)? What did she do after the war? I have encouraged a lot of people to get with grand parents grand uncle, aunts anyone int he family and record your history! You may not think much of it but your great-great-grand children might! We have the tech and it is so simple, do it. I often just turn on a camera and start asking questions sooner or later it turns into story time!
@@tankertom3243 it's all well documented as is her story.
There's also a new museum in Blacksod lighthouse that has it all doumented.
www.rte.ie/culture/2019/0529/1052425-how-an-irish-weather-forecast-played-a-critical-role-on-d-day/
I had the pleasure of speaking to an Irish veteran about 10 years ago. He served in the British Army in North Africa / Europe. I asked him why he joined up...he joked and said he was hungry! He explained that things were not good in Ireland in the 30s, he had limited options people were poor. He said he wanted a bit of adventure and he wasn't alone. He said about 40-50 guys had joined up from his midlands town. He went on to settle in England after the war. A brave man with an interesting story.
His life would have less good if he returned to Eire
The Hungry comment is indicative
Eire preferred a trade war rather than have a better life for their citizens
My dad served in the Royal navy. Son of irish catholics , leaving a dystopian Eire for the good life in England
@paulcrowley8587 the trade war was imposed by the British on Ireland because the Irish government refused to repay monies demanded from land annuities in Ireland prior to independence
3 aunt's nursed through the blitz, another served with the waf and an uncle was a mosquito navigator in the RAF
@paulcrowley8587 the trade war was the uks idea 😂 see that's the trouble many in the uk do not understand the level of hate came also fron uk government.
Also why many irish at the time saw little difference between Germany and uk
As a Briton, I'd like to thank all those Irish fellows who chose to help our nation in times of need, and also those who didn't for at least not helping our enemies. Many people evidently had to make some very complex searchings of conscience during those unfortunate times...
Well sa8d
Proud to say my dad was Irish and joined the RAF and was tail gunner in a Halifax bomber during ww2
Very brave !
Did he go back to Eire afterwards and how was he treated?
@@sheldream981 my dad and two of his brothers settled in Scotland after the war.
Interesting, my dad was originally from Limerick went to the UK in 1943 to join the RAF, ended up in the RCAF and was a tail gunner on Lancasters, did a full tour and a bit more, ended up in Egypt at the beginning of the revolt in 46. Left the service as a W.O. and gunnery instructor. It did not go down at all well when he returned home. For example, his brother in-law was an Irish Blue-Shirt. Still, he was a hard man (Probably had PTSD). He beat the living S**it out of anyone who challenged him about his time in the service or disrespected those who had fallen.
@@bfhfhfhdj my dad was from Rathdowney in County Laois, or Queen's County as it was known before the establishment of the Irish free state in 1922. He stayed on in the RAF after the war and eventually signed up for the New Zealand airforce before I put a stop to that. My mum fell pregnant with me before they went out there and they decided not to go lol
It was certainly hard back then in Ireland with ill feeling on both sides with regards to whether you should have fought for the British. My dad did the right thing though.
I remember seeing an interview with an Irishman who served in Bomber Command as aircrew. When allowed home on leave he would visit a warehouse in Liverpool where he would be given a complete civilian identity so as not to draw attention from the Sinn Fein/IRA. Brave man in more was than one.
My uncles were in the "royal* navy. They went home in a uniform.
Sounds like a lot of bollox.
And you are surprised? That very same army was murdering and raping in Ireland just two decades before.
Utter nonsense, those who didn't wear the uniform did so to disguise the fact that 160,000+ from the 26 counties joined the British and Commonwealth forces.
Daniel O'Connoll in the 18th century had said "England's difficulty is Ireland's opportunity" and many in Eire saw that as still being true in 1939.
True. When Britain went to war in 1914, the Ministry of Supply started buying up beef, pork, and grain, and Irish farmers could name their own price. But they were disappointed in 1939, when the British Ministry of Supply ignored Ireland (because of their disloyalty) and Irish farmers were suddenly cut off from all British and European markets.
And its still true today, thanks to Britain shooting itself in the head with brexit Ireland will be reunited.
@@galinneall Untrue, Britain would have starved (as it nearly did) without Irish food imports, it was in no position to ignore food then as it isn't now.
As as for loyalty, you probably missed the bit about achieving independence.
Amen brother
And right now!
as historian James P. O'Donnell said- "the Irish knew who they were neutral against..."
As a native Irishman witha history degree, this was wonderful. It was nice to hear all the details I was taught in Irish schools & university summed up very well by one of my favourite history RUclipsrs! Your pronunciation of Taoiseach was pretty decent too, though if I may offer a suggestion 'Tee-SHUCK' is more correct. The Irish language loves the SH sound! I appreciated the details I was unfamiliar with, such as Craig's typical bigoted paranoia demanding Churchill invade, or Monty- who had served in Ireland- being asked to draw up invasion plans. It's an irony of history that the hated partition actually helped preserve Irish neutrality as the Allies could use that for their purposes & the Germans couldn't really blame the Free State for their presence.
Keep up the great work and have a wonderful Thanksgiving!
We have a family joke: it's pronounced "Taishoff."
T-shock would be even more correct "history" dude.
My Dad was in the Auxiliary Fire Department in Dublin during WW2. He was one of the fire fighters who travelled to Northern Ireland to help fight the fires from German bombs dropped on Belfast.
I knew this was going to be complicated, but wow. Need to let it soak in and re-watch later.
That's my secret -- nothing ever soaks in 👌
@@Votrae One of my cousins (from Dublin) served in the RAF during WW2. He contracted malaria in India and died.
HI THG. I’ve watched and liked several of your videos. In “Ireland in the Second World War” you brought up much that is unknown to most people. One of the main explanations that you left out of your video for Ireland staying neutral in WWII was to prevent England & UK from re-establishing naval and army bases in the ROI for fear that they would not leave; and after the war, if successful against Germany, these bases would remain & be used to “retake” & re-conquer Ireland and dissolve the ROI.
Also, The Republic of Ireland(ROI) is not ‘ southern’ Ireland. The southern province of Munster and the south of Leinster province (south of Dublin) is ‘southern’ Ireland.
Northern Ireland, part of the UK is a gerrymandered state containing only 6 of the 9 counties in the northern Irish province of Ulster.
Geographically NI is northeastern Ireland.
You seem to join in on the current confusing and frequent use of this term, ‘Southern Ireland’ to mean the ROI. I don’t think it is meant to be pejorative but it is a term that is very misleading.
I can understand the use of it as there are so many north and south states and countries on this planet. Please refrain from using this erroneous term. Thanks. Otherwise, keep up the good work.
@@caseymcpoet The use of "Southern Ireland" as a stand in for the Republic of Ireland used to annoy the hell out of me too. However, I get less upset about it these days because even residents of the Republic of Ireland use the term rather loosely themselves.
To be accurate, during World War 2, the Republic of Ireland did not yet exist. It was officially referred to at the time as Éire. In fact, white markers using large letters spelling out "ÉIRE" were placed at various locations around the Irish coast to let aircraft and ships know they were approaching Ireland or going to encroach on its airspace. My sister is in a local archeological group in Dublin and they are going to uncover and restore the "ÉIRE" marker that was placed on Howth Head. It had become overgrown by gorse and weeds in the intervening 80 odd years.
The marker at Malin Head was restored a while ago.
Just about every part of Irish history could be described as complicated at best, mind boggling at worst.
You forget the "moral atrocities" committed by the British against the Irish, including the brutal treatment of innocent civilians. Britain was lucky that Ireland acted with such forbearance during WWII.
I met and chatted with an old fellah who'd served with allied forces when I was a bike tour of Ireland in 1979. This was in Kerry and he told me for years afterwards he got grief from former friends etc. for fighting with the English, whereas he no great friend of England saw it as fighting against the fascists who were the greater evil.
My Grandfather left Belfast in 1913 at the age of 16 to join his older brothers in Sydney Australia. He decided that it would be a good idea to paint his initials on his suitcase so he could recognize it easily. His name was Jack Ernest Workman, thankfully he made it safely to Sydney where his brothers questioned his judgement.
I did not know that Ireland was neutral during WWII.
Taoiseach mean “leader/chief” rather then a direct translation of prime minister and is pronounced more like “tea-shock”. We appreciate you trying to use Gaelic where possible and recognize the pronunciations can be weird
Yeah, you 'nailed it', I was going to make the very same reply, just adding, now say it faster and add an 'i' into the 'shock', te-shiock. I know this is childish and immature, but it reminds me of the time I spent ages trying to coach my English friend how to say 'shut your hairy hole!'....no no no, it's not howel, we're not Welsh, 'hooole' ah for fuck sake, 'hole', just say it faster 'whole' No! well yes, kinda but loose the 'w'....'howell' 'Christ, now we're back to Welsh again!
'Hole' it's not difficult....and our voices are rising, and we're in a hotel (on jobs, we would share a room just to keep the cost's down)...so there is a very timid knock on the door. I open it to find the manager, he politely asks if everything is ok? I say 'yeah, it's grand, just that my partner (business partner) can't manage 'shut your hairy hole' but we are going to work through it and we'll be quiet'...I can still see his finger poised over the panic button......no idea why?
Pax vobis.
It was a valiant effort! This link will help. dictionary.cambridge.org/us/pronunciation/english/taoiseach
@@conmcgrath7502 I was going to post similar. I'm not Irish but I've been in Ireland since May 2015 and have heard the title(?) used numerous times on TV and radio.
@Peter Lorimer No, Waaaterford! (we had been watching Podge and Rodge, which is how the subject got raised in the first place.
@@conmcgrath7502 I love the Waaaterford. I worked with a Waterford man once who used the Gaelic version of his name, Eamonn DeBarra. We pronounced it as I'm in DeBarra. No, it wasn't the building trade I was in.
The funny thing about that German air raid on Dublin was that the synagogue was hit.
The funnier thing was that the Germans apologised and paid reparations. 😂
Yeah, Hitler actually had an odd reservation for Muslims, when it came to his "nobody but the Aryans" policy. I mean, it isn't so strange when you know what he was trying to accomplish in the Middle East at the time, but it really doesn't square with the overall historical picture we get of that crazy dictator...
@@jordaneggerman4734 I've read extensively about him and I wouldn't say he was crazy at all, I think that was a later narrative added by people trying to make sense of the scale of the destruction, yes he appears to have sociopathic tendencies even before his brutal Great war experiences and near the end of his life became increasingly paranoid (understandably due to assassination attempts) but he was not erratic or easily deflected from course, most of his wartime decisions (from a strategic point of view) were reasonably logical ones to take.
There were of course mistakes, like mistreating the population of parts of Russia who initially greeted him as a liberator from the Soviets but I would describe him as bad not mad.
@@SirAntoniousBlock I basically did a dissertation on Hitler, his birth, early life, Great War service, and rise to power. Whether a product of his upbringing, a result of his war trauma, or something he was born with, he absolutely wasn't sane, and, especially later in the war, was _most definitely_ erratic.
Hitler was paranoid from day one, despite seeming to enjoy being open to the public. He didn't understand the first thing about commanding military operations on a large scale, and this really started to show, pretty soon after the fall of France. He didn't listen to his generals, which led to multiples of them plotting his assassination and regime change/Germany's surrender. His paranoia led him to lock up those who only had the best interest of Germany in mind, and caused a lack of trust that rippled like a shockwave through the Wehrmacht, in late-war Germany
@@jordaneggerman4734 Oh well you're very familiar with the subject I don't disagree with any of your comments, he wasn't a trained military officer as he only rose to low rank and as I said tactical mistakes were made (because of his constant interference) he did however have a good memory for logistical figures but the nature of the Nazi regime far from being a brutal ordered machine was just a rats nest of chaos fear and mutual loathing, would you have been the one to correct Hitler and tell him he was wrong? 😅
@@SirAntoniousBlock no, I would have been one of the ones caught trying to kill him.
I won't disagree that he had a good memory; he flexed that all the time, when he finally rose to power. My initial point was he was calculating...always calculating. Whether his calculations were intelligent, or not, is kinda up to the beholder, but I'd argue most of the decisions he made, post-1940, were almost all based around the power trip version he had of himself. He was certainly narcissistic beyond any redemption, and sociopathic to the Nth degree.
Sorry, I know I'm a little intense on this topic, but I recently got called a "Juden" by a Holocaust denier, and, well, it made me laugh, because I'm ethnically German, and Aryan to boot, but I think it also made me a little more touchy to people being soft on Hitler. No, he wasn't the "worst" or "most brutal" dictator (he could have _certainly_ been worse) but there are way too many people out there right now who idolize him. Knowing you're not one of them is comforting, but I don't want someone else to read this and think wrongly of either of us, or think that we are in favor of something we're not.
As a seventh generation Canadian of Irish descent and and fourth generation CAF veteran, (Great grandfather served in WWI, Grandfather served in WWII, Father served in Korea, I served as a peace keeper), I found this to be fascinating, enlightening, and unbiased, something I would have found rare elsewhere.
Thank you for your service.
Indeed - thank you from a fellow Canadian.
I can remember my Irish mother referring to her Ireland based family as “Milk-toast,” saying with disdain things like “standing for nothing makes you nothing,” and quoting “All it takes for evil to exist, is for good men to do nothing.” And I can remember my Grandmother on our fathers side showing fiery anger, getting spitting mad at a neighbor buying a VW car. Almost 30 years after Germany occupied Norway she would occasionally launch into angry references about Germans. Once she shared a few stories that I remember as a young kid scaring the crap out of me. Her brief simple plain description of relatives actions and other events in Norway were horrific. To her, Germany, Germans, anything German was hated with a loathing like I have never seen since. As a kid these snippets of WW2 stories were chilling, seeing grandparents go from sweet and wonderful to livid and spitting mad at the mere mention of German anything made me realize that it must have been worse than anything I could imagine.
@S K - We, those who have never experienced war on the ground... have no clue the actual horrors and memories that remain afterwards. It’s seriously scary.
There's a real danger in holding a grudge against "those people"..
My maternal grandmother was this way with the Japanese. When Pearl Harbor was attacked her father was US Navy (based at Alameda, so saw the boats brought there in 1942 for repairs), her boyfriend at the time (my grandfather) was just starting his A school for his rating, and then most of her high high school male friends signed up.
She said by August of 45, she personally knew 30 men who didn't make it home. She completely held Japan responsible for the war, saying if Pearl hadn't happened then the US would have remained neutral (yeah, not a discussion to get into regarding Germany, "Lend-Lease", etc. It was all on the Japs).
Well, I was in my early teen years and one of my good friends was second generation Japanese American. She was visiting for the holidays and I made a comment that I was going to spend the afternoon at his house. He has a Japanese name so her ears perked up and she made a comment, "Why are you having anything to do with those (very derogatory term for Asians) traitors?" I don't remember my exact response, but my mother jumped in and said a few things to admonish her. It was one of the only times I have ever heard a member of my family say anything racist or derogatory. We were all raised to be tolerant and even embracing of differences. It was shocking to say the least.
She later explained herself, admitted it had been 50 years, but refused to let it fully be put in the past as she claimed, "it is still their culture and they won't change." I learned to just not bring it up again.
As a child I had many neighbors who were Norwegian immigrants to the United States. I didn't know how deeply the hatred of the Nazis ran in many Norwegian families until I mentioned that one of our neighborhood buddies had German ancestry. When my Norwegian friend's mother found out about the German roots of our playground buddy, she refused to allow her son to play with our pal whose family was from Germany. This was back in the 60's. I found out later that 2 of my chums uncles were killed by the Nazi's, one in combat, the other executed as a resistance soldier.
WWI was still a dark cloud on the world in 1939. The US was just as neutral for a few years too. Watching France fall. Sitting on our hands as Britain was bombed. And "leasing" the Soviets equipment as the Germans blitzed toward Moscow. It wasn't until the propaganda build up and the attack on Pearl Harbor gave the American people the will to fight.
Brendan “Paddy” Finucane is the name of the lad sitting in his Spitfire on the title of this video. I first learned of him when I was about 13 years old from the “Air War” volumes written by Edward Jablonski. I’m 57 years old now and the examples these men did to fight Nazism deeply affected me.
Read your history people!! It matters.
As I mentioned in a post, still alive. Hero.
@@richardpentelow655 Shot down and killed in 1942. Do you just make stuff up?
G'day,
Yay Team !
I, too, recognised him in the Thumbnail.
So beginning with Biggles led straight to studying British Aeronautical Military History, for you too, eh ; permitting instant recognition of an Irish RAF Spitfire-Jockey's Cockpit Propaganda Photo, about 80 years down the track, hmmmn...?
Captain W.E. Johns had a lot to answer for...; eh, what, Captain Bigglesworth ? (!).
Bigglesmania afflicted the entire Empire in.the 1930s, motivating most English-speaking Schoolboys becoming the Servicemen of Commonwealth WW-2 vintage, and lasting well into the '60s & '70s too, here in Oz anyway...
For a goodly giggle at what took me for my first Solo, while excercising the Biggles Fetish..., please feel free to look in my "Personal Aeroplanology..." Playlist, or title-search YT for,
"The 8-Hp, 1975, Red Baron Skycraft Scout ; World's 1st Legal Minimum Aircraft...!"
it was safely chained up to the Ceiling of the Inverell Transport Museum (NSW, Oz), last time I saw it - in 1995.
Having grown up on Biggles Books..., at 17 ; anything with Wings was obviously quite flyable, surely !
Such is Life,
Have a good one...
Stay safe.
;-p
Ciao !
@@givenfirstnamefamilyfirstn3935 Indeed. His Spitfire was damaged during a fighter sweep over France and he had to ditch in the English Channel. Unfortunately, he never got out of the aircraft and was drowned. It should also be noted that his Brother Raymond ALSO joined the RAF but he did survive the war.
@@Denis.Collins Yep and both Brendan and Ray were a bit nervous about telling their dad that they wanted to join the RAF. But it turned out he wasn't unduly worried about it.
I was privileged to work with Peter Bird who left Dublin to join the RAF in 1940. He stayed in England after war. A gentle man, great of spirit.
I'm Irish and just found this channel last weekend, nice coincidence! One point that I would have mentioned was the return of the Treaty Ports from British to Irish control in 1938. Had this not happened it would have hugely complicated the Irish government's position and would have shortened the Royal Navy's route into the Atlantic by hundreds of miles.
Great video!
+1. I was wondering if this was going to come up... think the Treaty Ports being signed over was part of the settlement after the Economic Wars of the 1930s?
Should be pointed out that these 'wars' themselves were extremely damaging to Irish economic interests, particularly given the Britain-centric focus of exports at that time.
One of the stupidest decisions Chamberlin made. Ireland, the only neutral county to give official condolence for the death of Hitler.
@@mcmax571 I thought the Munich conference was the stupidest thing he ever did? Oh, yes, that's right it was.
Excellent point!
100 th anniversary of Bloody Sunday. No, this is not a political diatribe, merely a 'nod' to history that deserves to be remembered.
The whole question of Irish neutrality has already been 'served' quite well.
What I find interesting, is the little discussed motor-way service stations in the UK, many of which sit atop a rise and spookily enough, have a tower that looks directly down the runway eh, I meant roadway.
By that same rationale, the 'miraculous' airport in Knock is just the right length to handle a B-52. What a co-incidence'?
Pax vobis.
My great uncle (on my dads side) was from a long line of Irish and was killed in WW2 in Algeria 1944 - fighting with the British Army.
I'm a 59 year old Englishman and we never got taught this in history lessons at school. Always good to learn.
Hi from the Republic of Ireland. Here's an interesting fact. During ww2 the Irish Army actually had quite a problem with desertion. Many soldiers were going awol and travelling to Britain to join the British army. Various reasons I guess, some seeking excitement, others probably to fight fascism just as many Irish did in the Spanish civil War. After the war many of those soldiers were court martialled for desertion. The defence always given was that by definition they couldn't be guilty of cowardice as they had gone awol from an ostensibly peacetime army to join an army at war. Not sure how the defence went mind. I found out about this whilst serving as a reservist in the Irish Army about 25 years ago. Anyway thought you might be interested. Kind regards.
I also, was not taught this in school.
You also don't get taught that Derry where I'm from was the Headquarters for the Battle of the Atlantic. Monty was born down the road from here in a place called Moville.
@@eoindee7007 You say a lot of Irishmen volunteered to fight facism in Spain, but Ireland was the only democracy that allowed organised units to travel to Spain to fight for Franco. While the International Brigade is lauded , the volunteers who went to Spain to fight against communism have been airbrushed from history. Mass rallies in Ireland, supporting Franco, were attended by 40,000 people, and over 7000 men volunteered to fight for the Nationalists/Fascists. Two Battalion s were formed and one was eventually sent to Spain.
Recruitment usually took place after Sunday mass in the name of fighting "Godless Communism" de Valera's deputy organised their recruitment. Certainly the Irish state and Catholic Church, turned a blind eye to their recruitment and deployment.
The IRA were equally ambiguous in their attitudes. Initially describing Fascism as oppressive, it latter described any German troops landing in Ireland to be coming as
"Liberators".
Not surprisingly its a part of Irish history that a lot of Irish people choose to ignore.
@@ericgrace9995 I never knew that Eric, thanks for posting. Fascinating stuff 👌
One point I should add - Ireland acquiesced to British military planes flying over its land mass across the so-called 'Donegal Corridor', which greatly increased the range and effectiveness of aircraft based at RAF Castle Archdale in Fermanagh.
@@brianbarrett2487 The Irish had no obligation to fight for the English.
@@brianbarrett2487 Do you have any snarky comments about Swiss neutrality?
@@gregorystark978 There's plenty of stuff for the Swiss to be ashamed of when it comes to the exploitation of their neutral status in WW II, most obviously the role their banks made in allowing the proceeds of Nazi looting. The Swiss National Bank received the equivalent, in today's money, of $8bn of mostly looted gold from the Nazis in WW II. That's just the tip of the iceberg of shady dealings by Swiss banks during WW II.
www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/nazis/readings/sinister.html
Until the Battle of Norway, the notion of a German invasion of Ireland was vaguely plausible.
After that campaign, which resulted in the German occupation of Norway, but which cost Der Kreigsmarine almost all its surface fleet, there was NO plausible German invasion threat.
Der Kreigsmarine had only four destroyers, no amphibious capability, and more importantly NO experience of joint amphibious operations...
Adolf Hitler was a land animal, and the Wehrmacht was designed to operate in Western Europe, over short distances on roads The Luftwaffe was set up as a short range flying artillery for the land force.
As some people have pointed out, the Royal Navy(RN) would not have needed to fire a shot to frustrate a German invasion of the UK. All that would have been needed would have been for a single RN fleet destroyer to steam past a string of German barges at full speed, and its wake would have sunk or capsized all of them...
The notion that the Germans would have successfully invaded Ireland after the Battle of Norway is simply laughable...
Neutrality was the only sensible policy for the Irish Free State(IFS) in 1939. The new state was barely 17 years old, and the scars of the Irish Civil War were still open and raw.
A neutral Ireland suited the UK, and even more the USA.
The UK gained strategic depth - see the Rathduff airfield plan for the RAF - a supply of desperately needed food, and a steady supply of volunteers, not to mention weather reports.
Whereas an Ireland which had descended into civil war would have been a failed state behind the UK, requiring a large deployment of troops on the Border...
Ireland's neutrality was a success, as far as the Irish people were and are concerned. Ultimately, they are the only people whose opinions matter. The Irish state, and the Irish people, survived. The proud tradition of the peaceful transfer of power following democratic elections was maintained.
The obituary in The Irish Times of an Irish Royal Navy officer who was killed on HMS Hood said he had died in a boating accident. There was a strong connection in Cork to the Royal Navy. Two of my fathers cousins served on HMS Exeter and were capture by the Japanese and survived.
My grandfather was an Irish Chicago police officer who sent his wife and children to Ireland to find some property. My mother was born over there and they were prevented from leaving back to the USA because of the Civil War.
When I read your comment, I was thinking of the U.S. Civil War at first. I was really wondering how old your mother was there for a second before I realized you meant the Irish Civil War. - haha
He sent them to Ireland to find property? He wanted to move there? Changed his mind, obviously...
Greek ship Diamantis sunk in uk waters on 03 October 1939 by the German U-boat U 35. All 28 sailors rescued by the u boat, and dropped off safely in Ireland....
That is correct, it was the only time a German U-boat went to Ireland and it was attacked a day later probably because its position was notified to the British. Thereafter Admiral Donitz issued a command to stop all rescues of ships sunk by uboats and no U-boats approached the Irish coast out of a justified fear that their sighting would be reported to the UK.
@@paulwalsh598 👍
Fun fact: The stickman on the pilot’s jacket @8:49 is from Leslie Charteris’ novels about an adventurer named Simon Templar aka “The Saint”. It was adapted to a series of movies during the war and a 1960s TV series by the same name that starred Roger Moore.
Bonus fact: Leslie Charteris was on the maiden voyage of the Hindenburg and apparently exited safely in New York City before its fateful crash.
Vincent Price also played The Saint in a series of radio dramas.
You've got better eyesight than me!
@Ronald McReynolds The Hindenburg didn't crash on its maiden voyage. It actually operated through 1936 with no serious issues. It was its first voyage of 1937 that ended in disaster.
Another little factoid - the stick drawing of "The Saint" became the unofficial symbol of No.16 Squadron RAF. They had always been referred to as "The Saints" because they were set up at St Omer in France during World War 1. I know the chap who first drew the Saint symbol on a 16 Squadron machine. It was a Canberra B(I)8 based in West Germany in the early 1960s.
Well done THG. Its heartening to see that someone from outside of Ireland can appreciate the complexities of the time and not just focus on the controversial highlights.
When one looks at Ireland's position back then its clear that it couldn't afford - literally and figuratively to get involved. Besides promises made for the Act of Union and Home Rule were set aside afterwards. Why would Churchill's offer be any different?
Right. DeValera didn't believe Chrchill would have kept the promise. They rarely do. Cheap easy words to get us to do what they wanted and then to paraphrase De Spaffel, the Irish could go whistle.
In fact it could have been even worse; a smashed up Ireland would have had a hard time resisting a British invasion after the war which I wouldn't be surprised would have been a possiblity in the minds of the British and their Unionist proxies. The words of that piece of work Craig show that as a definite possiblity.
Although Ireland was ostensibly neutral, it actually aided Great Britain immeasurably by allowing the RAF to over fly Irish territory via the so-called Donegal Corridor. In 1941, they allowed the basing of a sea rescue trawler manned by British personnel. Allied and Luftwaffe war planes made 162 crashes or forced landings in Ireland. Luftwaffe pilots who crash-landed in Ireland and German sailors were interned and the German Embassy billed for their keep. Royal Air Force (RAF), Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF), and United States Army Air Forces (USAAF) pilots who crashed were released on personal assurances and usually allowed to cross the border into British territory. They were referred to as "guests of the nation".
As an Irish - American I’ve been hoping that you would cover this topic.
Me too 🇺🇸/🇮🇪/🇮🇹. Grandparents on my fathers side immigrated from County Clare.
Same! :D
You have nothing to be a proud of. The fact that the Irish did not oppose Hitler is shameful.
@@brianbarrett2487 And absolutely ridiculous.
@@EPA18 You are very narrow minded.
I love this channel - so many episodes retell events of history that can sound more incredible than the fiction that was written about the time periods
A lot of Northern Irish seemed to have joined the RAF including my Wife's Uncle.
He survived the Battle of Britain to be killed in Egypt in 1942.
160,000 from the south served in the British and commonwealth forces in WW2.
They served in the RAF, Royal Navy and British Army. Their bravery and sacrifice was rewarded with being called traitors and received no acknowledgment from their country or government.
Well said. Many thanks to them all, from the UK.
And some of them had fought against British rule. That makes them real heroes in the fight against authoritarian regimes.
Well that started out nice, and then took a nasty turn LOL.
No, have you been listening? Civilian volunteers weren’t punished, members of the armed forces were. They were under oath to obey the orders, and deserted.
8:18 If you're Nasty!
Thank you, History Guy! You have taught me a LOT with this one. Well, with most all of your episodes. I wish you continued success!!
A typically well-balanced and clear account of a sensitive and complex subject - congratulations for another great story!
Greetings from Clay County!
Thanks again, Lance for the map @10:17 ! My great uncle Edor was captured on 20 October 1944 near Gavisse, France.
He was CO of Troop C , 43rd Squadron , 3rd Cav. US Army.
I never did understand the difference between Stalag and Offlag.
He said he was sent to Offlag 64 near Szubin, Poland. But I also have a note with Stalag/Offlag XXI-B
I know now it would have been Offlag, and #55 Offlag 21-b looks VERY close to Szubin.
THANKS AGAIN, Lance ! Sadly, Edor passed a week or so after his 100th birthday, but his younger brother, Stanford is still with us. Stan celebrated HIS 100th this past 22 Sept.
Their Mother , Christine lived to be 103. Their Father, Isaac, died in 1921 of the "Spanish " Flu. 649 thumbs UP! SHOW ME...... the history, guy PEACE
Well researched Mr History Guy. I was listening to a German man on the radio, not so long ago. He used to cycle for the Curragh (pronounced Curra) camp to University College Dublin daily, where he received a dental qualification eventually. Most if not all German spies were cought & interned in the Curragh. My father tells me that most members of the British and American forces who got stranded in Ireland , were quiietly bought by the Irish army to the border with the North. Both sides usually went to a local pub (either side of the border) for a parting celebration before going their seperate ways!
The movie 'The Brylcreem Boys' showed the Brits and the Germans hating each other's guts.
That's something I did not know.
Generally in references about WWII, you see Ireland listed as "neutral" but that's as far as it goes. I'd figured it probably had something to do with the Irish thinking "what do we owe the British after what they did to us" but now I see it was a lot more complex. This is not history that deserves to be remembered, as most of the other videos in this series are--it's more history that deserves to be revealed in the first place.
My mother was always a bit put out by Ireland's neutrality, being half Irish but a total Anglophile. I wish she could have seen this THG episode.
You can quickly disregard anyone who refers to Ireland as neutral in WWII. 'Passively pro-Allies but non-belligerent' is perhaps the best description possible.
Wow, you really caught me off-guard with this one. Fascinating - thank you!
The Republic of Ireland could opt out of WW2 under terms of the Statute of Westminster of IIRC 1932. The other Dominions had the same choice.
But none of them had the lack of class and courage to do it.
@@assessor1276 Go back to the Chanak Crisis of October 1922 when it looked like Britain was going to go to war with Turkey. Only New Zealand would have supported Bditain.
You’re brave to take this topic on. De Valera’s legacy is Ireland’s indisputable status as a nation state. As an American citizen he survived 1916, but as a leader was morally bankrupt. Whereas the appeasers of Nazi Germany in Britain are only now being re-evaluated as “practical men”, de Valera persists as as a man with no moral stature. Plenty of social horrors have emerged in Ireland in recent decades that his Separatist ethos reinforced.
In fact he has a lot of moral backbone as was proved by his willingness to die fighting against British occupation in Ireland in 1916.
@@Kitiwake Every nation has its foundation myths that are told to children. Ireland took a long, long time to become independent in thought, and de Valera’s legacy is responsible. He viscerally hated the British, but had nothing but agrarian poverty and the Nazi threat to offer. He’s dead, and Ireland can stand on its own.
@@matthewshaw988 He also further strengthened the position of the Catholic church in Irish society leading to disastrous consequences for young children and women and was involved in the futile civil war after he refused to negotiate the treaty with the British so he could avoid responsibility for the final treaty. Neutrality with aid to the allies was probably the right decision though.
'As an American citizen he survived 1916, but as a leader was morally bankrupt.'
No historian has ever stated that de Valera was morally bankrupt.
'Whereas the appeasers of Nazi Germany in Britain are only now being re-evaluated as “practical men”, de Valera persists as as a man with no moral stature.'
Again, this bypasses reality. De Valera was indeed a very moral man, but he was not a dictator. He was a democratic leader who gave his people what they wanted.
'Plenty of social horrors have emerged in Ireland in recent decades that his Separatist ethos reinforced.'
It had nothing to do with his 'separatists ethos'. It had to do with Irish society in general. Today, Irish people blame 'de Valera's Ireland' for the 'social horrors'. This is because it is easier to blame de Valera than face the fact that de Valera was elected again and again by their ancestors and that de Valera and every other politician in government and in every party espoused the same socially conservative values. Everybody was in on it.
Nice sidenote: Brendan "Patty" Fenucan's symbol is available in War Thunder when flying british planes after some kills
It is spelled Paddy, NOT EVER Patty. Patty is a girl's name.
Great video as always. As a member of the Commonwealth and technically a constitutional monarchy up until 1949, Ireland was logically expected to become a belligerent in the Second World War. Therefore neutrality was the most De Valera could do (short of joining the Axis) to stick it to the British.
A member of the commonwealth by threat of all out war with all of the British Army in 1920. That is how to make friends and influence people. Logically expected to become a belligerent?, might work for Canada and Australia, did the British burn Toronto or Brisbane?
@@givenfirstnamefamilyfirstn3935 By law they were very much bound to join the war effort. The choice of neutrality in this respect speaks volumes.
"did the British burn Toronto or Brisbane?"
Last time I checked, it was the Irish who decided to burn Canada to the ground in the 1860s.
@@SaxonYear410 by the Statue of Westminster 1931, every Dominion had the right to declare war and couldn't be compelled to do so by the United Kingdom. A legal position that resulted out of the Chanak Crisis 1922 where Canada refused to be compelled into fighting Turkey.
So Ireland had the legal right not to declare war.
@@SaxonYear410 Are you familiar with the Chanak Crisis of October 1922? When it looked like Britain was going to war with Turkey(both David Llyod George and Churchill wanted war) only New Zealand would have supported Britain. It was because of this the Dominions argued Britain could not wage war on their behalf. Hence the Dominions declaring war individually during WW2.
It is refreshing to be both entertained and educated at the same time. May you never run out of topics, Sir
It's shamfull how poorly many of the Irish were treated on returning home to Ireland after the war after serving with British forces. The Irish, I believe won more medals than any other of the nationalities, after the English, within the British and commonwealth forces.
The same with our fathers on returning home here to the United States. They would have their medals ripped-off them, their uniforms ripped off them. They would be beaten in the street
@@Josephsvideoalbum Who had their medals ripped off on returning to the USA, why, and by whom ? You don't explain your comment. The Kennedy family served, and indeed one of them died when an air mission went wrong. You don't get more Irish American than the Kennedy family.
@@timhancock6626 I think he's referring to returning Vietnam veterans.
@firediva4411 I think You mean English, and they are still screwing Scotland & Ireland
My mother experienced 2 bombing events in Dublin as a child. She said all the windows were blown out as a result but no one was injured. Had it been any worse I might not be writing this.
A bit of perspective re de Valera's sending state condolences to Germany upon Hitler's death: President Eisenhower did the same thing when Stalin died, even though at the same time the USA was engaged in a proxy war in Korea with the USSR.
Nothing in Ireland is "easy" when it involves politics. And in De Valera's defense, NO self respecting Irishman would have taken the promise from a proud British imperialist politician like Churchill about unification.
A great episode History Guy, thank you very much for it.
the “Donegal Corridor” is one example of covert cooperation. where British planes went across Ireland for 7 miles to access the Atlantic as opposed to a long flight round the northern tip. see wikipedia on this if you are interested.
Very surprised this wasn't mentioned as it's such an important detail in the Battle of the Atlantic.
I know through family connections of some other covert cooperation, where an Irish army officer went to the border, met a couple of Royal Navy officers and the group drove around the West Coast with the RN officers advising on where to put lookout posts watching the coast Was all hush-hush I gather. Their driver was a relation of mine.
@@dcwhitworth It IS mentioned near the end, but maybe THG added it later.
@@crossleydd42 No it isn't, he says 'allowing British planes to fly through Southern Irish waters', no mention of over land which has a far greater significance.
@@dcwhitworth True, but it is in the public domain now, being mentioned by John Howitt above, although I understood it to be 4 mile rather than 7 mile land strip. On the whole, I thought THG's video to be quite well-balanced.
My father-in-law was a member of Ireland's only fighter squadron, equipped with Hurricanes. He told me of his frustration at never being called to the fighting, having to watch from the sidelines, as it were.
Once again another great episode.
As a history buff since a child I really enjoy your content.
Q: So Ireland, who are you for in this war? A: Well, it's complicated.
@J Glass , Best answer of what true patriotism is. Sláinte!
There’s a story about Finucaine. At one point it was decided that when there was a scramble, one pilot was assigned to run through the quarters, the latrine, and the mess hall to make sure no one was missed. He would then jump on a bicycle and race out to his plane. When Paddy’s turn came, everyone ran to their Spits, while he checked the buildings. When he came out, everyone immediately learned that he’d never ridden a bike. He wobbled and swerved and ended up falling off and ran the rest of the way.
True or not - And I have no reason to doubt its truth - its a good story! :-)
Ireland allowed RAF and allied aircraft to fly over the thin strip of Irish territory between the Atlantic and Lough Erne in Northern Ireland. This saved a lot of time and fuel for the flying boats protecting convoys and searching for German U boats.
Thank you for adding this. Was looking through the comments to see if anyone had. As I understand it was a matter of Ireland turning a blind eye to what was technically a violation of their neutrality. But it was of great help during the Battle of the Atlantic.
Given Britain's sketchy past of keeping promises and treaties, I would have thought twice about the British promise to unify Ireland in return to fight against Germany. Something smells fishy
I think you can say that about most countries, history is full of broken promises and treaties
Churchill was apparently drunk out of his mind when he made that offer to Dev. He never even mentioned it to the Northern PM James Craig who's opposition to Unification was only matched by Carson. If Dev had accepted the offer and Churchill handed over the six counties, there would have been a civil war that would make the Troubles look like a mild disagreement.
Thanks for sharing 😊
A few less than comfortable truths alongside the nicer ones in this. It makes them even more important to remember.
Thank you for tackling this subject. If you ever visit the west of Ireland amongst the other historic sites consider the Foynes Flying Boat Museum. Its small but interesting, has a small restaraunt on site and is in a nice part of the countryside.
Another great one from the history guy. In school I was always bored with history overseas. Never really paid much attention except two word wars, Vietnam and Korea. Still don't understand the last two as well as I should. Thanks to Lance, I'm making up for not paying attention back then.
HG what an amazing bit of history - that definitely deserves to be remembered!
Fascinating and totally surprising information! Well done! One of your best!
I'm surprised you didn't say anything about the local reactions to those Irish who returned after the war. I heard there was a lot of animosity towards them from those that still had aggressive anti-British sentiments and some of them being targeted by IRA and others.
I was in the Canadian army in the 80s and 90s. I served for a period with the British army on an exchange. One of my British army colleagues was from Dublin - the British army still recruits a lot of people from the Irish republic. His parents could only tell people that their son was "going to school in England", and whenever he went home, he couldn't tell people what he did because it wasn't safe.
@@minuteman4199 I’m curious as to why citizens of Eire join the British armed forces today. Are they mostly Protestants? Is it because the Irish Army is too small to take more than a handful of recruits a year? Or because service in Ireland, with essentially no chance of combat or overseas deployment, is just relatively boring?
@@mebsrea I don't really have a good answer, but I have some ideas. Not everyone in Ireland is anti British and pro IRA. If they were they never would have had a civil war. Ireland has always provided a lot of soldiers to the British army, even during the time when the Irish were fighting for independence. I think mostly it's because to many young men, soldiering is an attractive life, and like you say, the Irish army is very small, and doesn't do a whole lot, so if you want to be a soldier and the British will take you, why not? There are a lot of Irish people and people with Irish ancestors in England, so for many, there are still strong cultural and familial ties across the Irish sea.
Those who were disgraced for serving in the Crown forces were those who deserted the Permanent Defence Forces of the Republic (never Southern Ireland [which does NOT exist]). No nation lauds deserters from its armed services. One has to appreciate 800 years of English and later British oppression of Ireland and the savagery towards the native Irish population to have any inkling of how reprehensible it seemed to the Irish to serve in the crown forces.
@@mebsrea I read an article some years back in an Irish paper and one of the reasons an Irish soldier in the British Army gave was that he wanted to be a soldier and the Irish Army wasn't recruiting at the time. Overseas deployment is common for Irish soldiers because of UN peacekeeping operations, but not for combat.
Now this is a peace of history that I did not know, since I teach History and also a student of history I find this very very interesting. Thank you for bringing this segment of history to light. Good show.
I was hoping, as a soccer fan, that you would end up talking about Ireland being the first country to play an international match against Germany after the war. For this reason, Germany has an alternate green jersey they use to honor the Irish for helping them return to the family of nations in a semi-serious way.
As I understand; from what I have been told by Irish family members who served or whose parents served in British military units during WW2, they believed that Ireland had nothing militarily of value to offer the Allies, Ireland's population was largely rural thus Ireland had very little industrial strength, RAF bases in Northern Ireland took care of any maritime patrols thus there was no need for more bases in Ireland, the Irish people largely supported the Allies and as stated, many would serve in the British military and many would move to Britain for work. It was Ireland's way of supporting the Allied cause in a way that benefited Ireland and the Allies.
I think an important thing missed De Valera is the only world leader to offer condolences to Germany on the death of Hitler.
De Valera was outrageous.
De Valera never missed an opportunity to show his disdain for Britain and all things British.
@@simongleaden2864 it reeks of the same attitude that certain Indian's had at the time, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
I doubt a victorious Germany and Japan would have been better masters to either the Irish or the Indians, esp considering India would off become a Japanese possession, and look what they did to the Chinese who they have far closer identity to.
We know what Hitler had planned for the UK, mass execution's , concentration camps, it was all documented.
The thing is Hitler liked the English saw us as cousins. He probably didn't have such an opinion of the Irish. So De Valera was traitorous to the Irish , their only salvation was if Britain succeeded.
@@simongleaden2864 saying that looking into this apparently De Valera asked Britain for help to destroy the IRA and apparently he executed more IRA than the British did.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-12848272
Most world leaders were able do realize the evil of the Nazis, invading other countries for conquest. Even many in South America, with no ability to effectively hit back. That Ireland did not will forever be a stain on their honor. Especially the censoring of the reports about the death camps.
Thank you for touching on this subject. I was in Ireland about 10 years ago on a Vacation/Tour, and I ask a few people about this. I didn't get a sufficient answer. I had thought that Ireland was active in WW2, watching old WW2 movies and such and hearing about the Irish guard, or Irish Brigade, which were in the British Army, not understanding that Ireland was Neutral.
Automatic like for THG. Anticipatory thanks for your show.
My uncles served with the RAF on Malta and North Africa and his brother served in the Far East with the Army.. They never settled back in Ireland.
I love your all videos on history. As an an Irshman however there are 2 aspects that I feel were important in Ireland in the pre war period.
1. De Valera was the last president of the League of Nations which upheld neutrality as a mechanism for all small nations at that time, Denmark, Holland, Sweden, Switzerland, Belgium, Luxembourg did not want to be involved in any war but faith dealth many of them a different hand to Ireland. Séan Lester who was the Irish diplomat representing at the League remained on at his post in Switzerland throughout the war in the vain hope that the league might have a role after the war. However the UN superceded it, Ireland ronically not being allowed to join as it had not been involved in WW2!
2. The return of the Treaty ports. Under the 1922 Treaty that ended the Irish War of independence, Ireland allowed the UK to retain 3 ports within the Irish Free State. As part of the settlement of the trade war in 1938, Britain returned these ports to Irish control. Berehaven's long range guns were which could shell out to sea for 20 miles were still fired off until 1988 as part of the agreement. However Churchill argued against Chamberlain handing back the ports as he believed that it was appeasement and that the UK might need them in the event of any future war.
Thanks for casting your eye over Ireland, Great to see what your perspective on where we fit in as a nation,
As a Canadian of Irish descent non my fathers side, I often wonder if US President Woodrow Wilson had of recognized the Irish Declaration of Independence might all the bloodshed in Ireland's quest for nationhood been avoided. Any thoughts?
It is strange that Ireland was not allowed to join the UN after WW2 and yet Sweden, which not only stayed neutral but sold iron to the Germans, was allowed to join. No-one has ever explained that to me.
@@tetrahedron1000 Ireland had to be punished for getting ideas above their station! After all how dare britains slaves deny their masters will
Wow..just wow. What's most impressive is how they managed to pull this off for the duration of the war.
Great picture of ‘Paddy Finucane’ on the cover to this video.
My father was Dublin born and a newly graduated physician in 1940. He joined the Royal Navy and served as medical officer aboard destroyer HMS Onslaught deployed as an escort vessel on several supply convoys of allied war materiel to Murmansk Russia. After the war we emigrated to Canada and later the US where he became a pathologist.He died in 1998.
Drink a shot of Irish whiskey every time THG says “Ireland” or “Irish”
hahha
Aaaaaand...alcohol poisoning 😄
I made it till 6 .Tapping out... Jameo is nice but....
I'm already three pints under me laddy, are ya tryin ta kill me?
it wasnt funny the first 400 times either ;-)
My father was stationed in England during the war and he told me that the Irish would radio information to the Germans on ship movements that they could observe. I've never been able to find anything about it though.
rumcookie12 might be a reason you never found anything on it.
@@kieranfitz You mean like a huge conspiracy? kidding
Yes, this was story carried in Daily Mail newspaper. What would be called today fake news, something that the Daily Mail was famous for, when it came to Ireland during the Second world war.
You think they had AWACs back in 1939? You ever look at a map?
No, but they did have coast watchers, stationed on high ground with powerful optics. They reported everything they saw. The lookout shelters can still be seen.
For all the videos about ww2, Ireland’s position in the war is underrated. This is because Irish history is barely talked about with the exceptions being the famine of the 1840s, the Irish war for independence, and the troubles from the 1960s to the 90s.
Look up Treaty of Westminster 1155
Pope Adrian told Norman King to seize Ireland and tax it.
Started the whole mess for King Henry not even a Briton.
@@MitzvosGolem1 Not sure who you meant by not even a Briton. Of course, King Henry was newly crowned as Henry II, the first Plantagenet, so although an Angevin, was King of England, so technically English. And of course, that Pope Adrian was Adrian IV, whose actual name was Nicholas Breakspear, the only English Pope (1154-1159). So if that's what the 1155 Treaty said, then looks to me like a total English arrangement!
Hey History Guy, my brother-in-law turned me on to your programs. I am glad he did!
I'm Irish, and while I have a general knowledge of the " emergency" years this presentation has filled in gaps. I had served in the IRISH DEFENCE FORCES for 33 years and visited the rundown camp in the 70's, you could if you digged find evidence of the life the "prisoners" led, is badges, cutlery, etc. Great show as always. Thanks.
Hundreds of thousands of Irish Canadians and Irish Americans fought honorable in WW2 ..I know for my own family my father and Irishman living in Saskatchewan Canada he always talked about how alot of allied troops of Irish descent were very disturbed about Irelands neutrality.
Bullshit attitude from a country that was NEUTRAL until Tojo’s buddy Adolph Hitler declared war on them!
If that hadn’t _have_ happened the U.S. would have sat it out. By the time they’d lost the Lexington, Yorktown, Hornet and Wasp they would have patched up an understanding with Hitler to get the Atlantic fleet through the canal.
I’m still trying to see how this had a paid promotion? Great video by the way.
The Tie Bar gives me bow ties in exchange for a promo in the description.
Well, the bow ties do look sharp. I'm planning an order.
A very touchy subject, still... handled in a very subtle manner. Fascinating as well. It was nice to scroll through the comments & not to find any distasteful, hasty remarks. My father & mother were both from Co Kerry, my father was in the Royal Navy from 1933 to 1965 serving as an engineer or chief, ending his career lecturing at HMS Sultan in Gosport. My mother came to England in 1940, aged 18 to become a nurse in Portsmouth during the height of the bombing there. Four of her sisters were already in England as nurses, one of whom was seriously injured trying to put out incendiary butterfly bombs with buckets of sand & dirt. She suffered terribly for weeks before succumbing to her injury’s & her remains were returned home. So I found this episode particularly interesting & well done. It’s complicated.
Thank you! Well researched and zero paddywhackery. Really enjoy and respect this channel.
Excellent. I knew that Ireland was neutral during the war, but did not know the extent of the neutrality. Outstanding show.
Oh my goodness! One more comment. You mentioned how people wondered how the Irish could overlook the atrocities of the Nazis, meanwhile the British and the Americans and the rest of the world turned a blind eye to the brutalities of the Soviets. One great example of that is the video that you did about the thousands of Pol's that the Russians killed during the initial invasion of Poland; outright murder, not warfare. It's okay, they were our "allies".
Excellent video! Keep them coming.
Interesting. As in all things there's a lot below the surface. Can't say I blame the decision after watching this..
Brendan Finucane the famous Battle of Britain fighter pilot was a cousin of my mother. And his family are very proud of him. Ironically his father was an IRA volunteer who fought against the British. Such an occurence may seem illogical and inconsistent but I can assure you that they are quite common.
Auld fella in the corner of the pub: Lads did I ever tell ye about the time I was in the Waffen SS fighting against the Red Army?
Wow! This was a very complex story. There are so many parts, and characters! Like others who have committed, I did not know anything about this aspect of WWII. Thank you for the information.
Of course you will be remembered as the “ History Guy “ the that deserves to be remembered as the famous quote from himself as “ those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it : Non Censuram “ 100%
As much as I love THG, that quote is NOT his. It is a quote from Santayana, and is actually; "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it".
@@HemlockRidge - True but,i am quoting THG 100%
@@nadanada5698 Semantics. Weasely, but correct.
@@HemlockRidge - Not weaselly but,Wisely stated ! ! ! !
@Ronald McReynolds yup i have my fun 😂 Man i love the internet you can 🤬 ppl off or make them 😂 and we are polite about it ( Key Word ) POLITE ! ! ! !
I had know idea that Ireland remained neutral, until I visited Ireland and Northern Ireland in February 2020. I was very surprised. The tour guide didn’t explain the reason why. Thank you for clarifying this topic.
Yet another superb video THG. In the case of those of the Irish Defence Force who decamped to join British Forces. They were vilified post war, by their own government. A booklet, listing their details was sent to all government funded branches country wide to ensure they were not employed on Govt payroll. This particularly nasty action, made it clear, that they were not being punished because they deserted, but because they joined British Forces. This odious document was re-published by The Naval and Military press, some years ago. This vindictive and needless action, caused real hardship to some of those, who had fought against the German threat. Strange man Devalera, pragmatic in some ways, but very spiteful , and just plain nasty in others.
'This particularly nasty action, made it clear, that they were not being punished because they deserted, but because they joined British Forces.'
This is bit is a lie.
@@taintabird23 you plainly have not read the republished record nor the Irish Govt paper which brought the punishment into being. The teaoning is clear when fully read up. Survivors were only pardoned and apologised to in the past few years.
@@jimbeam3280 They were punished because they deserted AND joined the British Forces, the armed forces of a country that had never given an undertaking NOT to invade Ireland. It was a threat. They had taken an Oath of Allegiance to the Irish State, and now they were taking an Oath for another. They were traitors. There was no opposition to Irishmen joining the British Armym which is what you are implying, during WW2.
The Government was committed to providing employment for all demobbed Irish Defence Forces personnel. To avail of Civil Service jobs, those demobbed soldiers had to hold a military discharge certificate. This was supplied only to those with satisfactory military records and any man dismissed for desertion weren’t around to receive one.. Thus the seven year disqualification - the Starvation Order - was a dead letter as they were already barred anyway.
The deserters were allowed to collect all pay due to them up to the time they deserted. They were allowed to claim British benefits while living in Ireland, in fact the Irish government negotiated a deal with the British allowing them to claim their UK benefits while living in Ireland. None went to prison. There could be no question of allowing the men to go unpunished; that would have undermined Irish claims to neutrality, eroded morale in the forces and set a dangerous precedent that desertion would be tolerated. (Bernard Kelly, Dev’s Treatment of Irish Army Deserters: vindictive or pragmatic).
However, I will agree that the punishment of their families was outrageous. Such treatment of children was typical of the Ireland of that time though.
Taking the oath of Allegience in one country while still under an Oath of Allegience in another is a prima facia case for desertion.
And what about the hypocrisy? Well known Irish Puppeteer Eugene Lambert was arrested in Dover while returning from a family holiday in about 1980 and accused of having deserted the British Army in Omagh in 1946. He was taken from his family, hauled up before a Magistrate and the Irish Gov. was told it was part of a campaign to catch deserters going back over decades. It turned out to be a case of mistaken identity, but as recently as the 1980s there was still no pardon for Irishmen who deserted the British forces during peacetime!
About 5,000 Irishmen deserted during the war. According to the Daily Mail they all joined the British Army to fight the Nazis, however, only 100 Irish men are known for certain to have deserted the Irish Army and joined the British Army. It also the case that many deserted for reasons other than opposition to the Nazis.
Another dimension to Ireland's neutrality in WW2 not mentioned in this presentation is that Ireland had obtained it's independence from Britain only 18 years before the commencement of the war and many felt that the continued occupation of 6 counties by Britain was unfinished business in it's struggle for independence.
The dilemma facing Ireland in 1939 was to align with Germany (perceived as the aggressor following the invasion of Poland), or with Britain (who continued to occupy part of Ireland), or to remain neutral. From an Irish perspective, neutrality was the most practical position to adopt.
Plenty Sons of Eire have Died on the Battle fields in both world wars and lots of unknown help to the Allies in other way's aswell.
I never knew they were independent.....another lesson learned
Thanks
I live in Londonderry/Derry and I didn't know we had a Spitfire on display lol
Just parts. Another viewer suggested the parts may have been moved to the Tower Museum.
@@TheHistoryGuyChannel Ah, thank you. I had an inkling that maybe the case. I'll check it out.
It's in Derry.
@@kieranfitz I think we established that already lol
BBC had a good documentary about the search and recovery of that spitfire a few years ago
why the Brits would expect the Irish to support their war effort is amazing given the atrocities they engaged in against the Irish. the Irish who fought for the UK must have had amnesia or didn't give a damn about the struggle for Irish independence. one assumes the "Irish" in the UK military would have had no issue attacking Dublin or Cork if ordered to. it is amazing the Brits did get so many of their non white colonies to fight for them.