The Toledo War: When Ohio and Michigan Went to War and Wisconsin Lost

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  • Опубликовано: 26 июн 2024
  • In 1835, a dispute based on a faulty map brought the State of Ohio and the Michigan Territory to the brink of war. The "Toledo War" represented the stresses of a growing nation, and rewrote the boundaries of three states. It is history that deserves to be remembered.
    This is original content based on research by The History Guy. Images in the Public Domain are carefully selected and provide illustration. As very few images of the actual event are available in the Public Domain, images of similar objects and events are used for illustration.
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    All events are portrayed in historical context and for educational purposes. No images or content are primarily intended to shock and disgust. Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Non censuram.
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    The History Guy: History Deserves to Be Remembered is the place to find short snippets of forgotten history from five to fifteen minutes long. If you like history too, this is the channel for you.
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    Script by JCG
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Комментарии • 1,7 тыс.

  • @tomshiba51
    @tomshiba51 3 года назад +877

    I was born and raised in Toledo. I heard that Ohio lost this dispute, and had to keep Toledo.

    • @yisraels4555
      @yisraels4555 3 года назад +94

      I grew up in Michigan. I heard that Ohio lost this dispute, and had to keep Toledo. LOL

    • @theannoyedmrfloyd3998
      @theannoyedmrfloyd3998 3 года назад +19

      Ohio won the dispute and got to keep part of Michigan. 😉

    • @travelinman70
      @travelinman70 3 года назад +20

      @@theannoyedmrfloyd3998 Yup, you're a winner. LOLOLOL

    • @pamelabrown7204
      @pamelabrown7204 3 года назад +35

      As a former Toledoan, I am aware Michigan won, by not having to accept Toledo. I am also aware Michigan consists of THREE peninsulas: Upper, Lower, and the two mile square Lost Peninsula, accessable only through Ohio or the water.
      Some days, I miss home. 😎

    • @EdMcF1
      @EdMcF1 3 года назад +64

      Careful, in round 2 they will give Ohio Detroit.

  • @user-du7ix9wk9c
    @user-du7ix9wk9c 3 года назад +449

    A government surveyor knocked on a Minnesota farmer's door and informed him that a surveying error was discovered. His farm was actually in Wisconsin. The farmer replied "Thank God, I don't know if I could take another Minnesota winter.

  • @khukri_wielderxxx1962
    @khukri_wielderxxx1962 3 года назад +343

    "Ohio and Michigan went to war over a 50 year old map, and Wisconsin lost."
    That has to be the most amazing random thing I've ever heard

    • @mikel5582
      @mikel5582 3 года назад +9

      Makes more sense than going to war annually over an oblong-shaped pigskin. I guess Wisconsin is sometimes impacted by that war too. 😉

    • @richardkimpel6142
      @richardkimpel6142 3 года назад +14

      Ask most "Yoopers" who their favorite NFL Football team is and I bet they say THE Green Bay Packers...
      #JustSaying

    • @afx935
      @afx935 3 года назад +3

      @@richardkimpel6142 I think the Steelers are Detroit's favorite.

    • @richardkimpel6142
      @richardkimpel6142 3 года назад +1

      @@afx935 LOL

    • @richardkimpel6142
      @richardkimpel6142 3 года назад

      @Treg Burk some of us do. Mind you I prefer the artistic footwork & creativity of Ginga vs. the boring kick the ball back and forth in the air of European style "football"...
      Long Live O Jogo Bonito

  • @tomshiba51
    @tomshiba51 3 года назад +441

    The war continues to this day every November between The Ohio State Buckeyes, and the Michigan Wolverines.

    • @curseoftheegglady
      @curseoftheegglady 3 года назад +25

      Go Bucks :)

    • @chrisgar1722
      @chrisgar1722 3 года назад +26

      Michigan continues to lose.

    • @travelinman70
      @travelinman70 3 года назад +4

      Only in the eyes of that state down south. Our true rival is MSU. We don't give a hoot about that school down on the farm.
      P.S. Why did you follow the lead of MSU to become a land-grant college?

    • @sunnohh
      @sunnohh 3 года назад +6

      And in the eyes of the rest of the country, you both lose!

    • @philosopher7308
      @philosopher7308 3 года назад +25

      Not really a war anymore, it’s a slaughter every year.

  • @robertmorris2388
    @robertmorris2388 3 года назад +109

    The Upper Peninsula is among the most amazing and beautiful place in the United States. Lucky the residents of this lovely land.

  • @earlreams583
    @earlreams583 3 года назад +129

    This story is a bit more personal in our family lore. My 3Great Grandfather was deeded 120 acres in the Toledo Strip, as compensation for his father being disabled at the Battle of The Thames. They were originally Michigan residents, having lost their homes when Frenchtown, present day Monroe, was burned forcing the family to flee in an open boat out on Lake Erie. There was some anxiety whether my Grandfather would be able to keep his farm if the Ohio claim was upheld. As it turned out, his deed was honored and he lived there raising 18 children, until passing away in 1882.

    • @oldmanfred8676
      @oldmanfred8676 3 года назад +5

      Very Cool 😎 family History Sir!

    • @robertqueberg4612
      @robertqueberg4612 3 года назад +1

      For Christ’s sake. How many wife’s did it take him to sire eighteen offspring. My paternal grandfather was one of six kids. The fourth died of pneumonia as the doctor was at the house delivering the sixth one. Then, not to miss out on the attention, the fifth one died a month later. It was a time for the hardy ones.

    • @webbtrekker534
      @webbtrekker534 3 года назад +2

      @@robertqueberg4612 My grandfather was one of 12 kids. An uncle was one of 13.

    • @robertqueberg4612
      @robertqueberg4612 3 года назад +2

      @@webbtrekker534 ,
      In those days, it was expected to lose one or more to disease, or accidents. There is a tall stone in an old local cemetery next to our farm, which shows the deaths of four children, in a period of 4-5 months. Kids were a necessity to the operation of a successful farm, with the amount of physical work to be done. It was a mixed bag of both good and bad. Keep your family safe.

    • @webbtrekker534
      @webbtrekker534 3 года назад

      @@robertqueberg4612 More likely the lack of birth control. Grand father born 1881, uncle born 1899.

  • @TheHistoryGuyChannel
    @TheHistoryGuyChannel  3 года назад +317

    At 1:27 I say the Mississippi was the eastern boundary of the Northwest Territory. Of course, it was the Western Boundary. I am sorry for the error.

    • @speeedskater
      @speeedskater 3 года назад +11

      along with perrysburg not perrysville

    • @Exedus20
      @Exedus20 3 года назад +2

      Just don't talk smack about me not knowing left from right and we good.

    • @richwhitaker1506
      @richwhitaker1506 3 года назад +2

      With the turn of a phrase THG attempts to alter geographic fact. Lol.
      I'm surprised both states didn't try to carve up the young Indiana.

    • @BoilerRoomRadio
      @BoilerRoomRadio 3 года назад

      I still hear static in your audio, just another heads up.... I am guessing others are as well.

    • @Chrisamic
      @Chrisamic 3 года назад +4

      @@willoughby1888 Some very slight audio compression artefacts, but not what I would call static as such (listen to the audio, not the silences in between as you would for normal "static"). I've heard much worse on RUclips - stuff that actually does sound like static. Part of the problem is that once you've uploaded a video, as a creator you don't have much control over what RUclips does with it technically. While the creator may wish that the video and audio is transmitted exactly as it was uploaded, RUclips are much more interested in maximising the use of storage and processes the upload accordingly. There's not a lot THG can do about it I believe.

  • @rrbee
    @rrbee 3 года назад +75

    Thank you for this one! As a Michigander the "Toledo War" has always been one of my favorite little snippets of forgotten history so I'm happy to see it getting some attention.

    • @ribbitgoesthedoglastnamehe4681
      @ribbitgoesthedoglastnamehe4681 3 года назад

      Never heard that before. I always thought it was Michiganian, or possibly Michigeese. ;-)

    • @oldmanfred8676
      @oldmanfred8676 3 года назад +4

      @@ribbitgoesthedoglastnamehe4681,
      The Libs tried to change it to Michiganians but us Michiganders weren’t havin’ it!

    • @countercuIture
      @countercuIture 3 года назад

      As an Ohioan I feel the same lol

    • @timmorris8932
      @timmorris8932 2 года назад +2

      As an Ohioan I feel the same way. I have always thought that OH and MI should erect dueling "historical markers" with near identical wording in so far as "At this time in this place our valiant boys fought back the evil invading ". Kinda like what you can find when you go to Canada and read the War of 1812 markers there, and about as important to world history.

    • @goodmaro
      @goodmaro 6 месяцев назад

      ​@@timmorris8932 It's already cheeky enough of the British that in the Treaty of Ghent they never acceded to the correctness of the American (and only honest) reading of the Treaty of Paris requiring the British to vacate the Territory Northwest of the River Ohio, and only said that they would abide by it. Like, "OK, we'll pretend you were right all along and vacate the premises."

  • @masterimbecile
    @masterimbecile 3 года назад +62

    Poor Wisconsin. Showed up at the end of the story and still lost.

    • @paulthompson8251
      @paulthompson8251 3 года назад +9

      Wisconsin got hosed by Illinois too, because the boundary was supposed to be the south end of Lake Michigan.

    • @stinkbug4321
      @stinkbug4321 3 года назад

      Serves the Cheeseheads right sticking their nose in where it doesn't belong, LMAO.

    • @MrWayneJohn1
      @MrWayneJohn1 2 года назад +2

      Wisconsin eventually won by the birth of America's Football Team, the Green Bay Packers!

  • @popuptarget7386
    @popuptarget7386 3 года назад +425

    We here in Wisconsin would invade and take the UP but have to keep our troops on the Illinois border.

    • @cods1pe3r
      @cods1pe3r 3 года назад +67

      I think the UP would rather be is own state and I can't blame then. They would be so much better if it they didn't have to support the dead cities of Detroit or Flint, hell we would all be better off if we didn't have to support that city. It is beautiful land up there. So much snow.

    • @219garry
      @219garry 3 года назад +38

      Shuddup and stir the cheese

    • @KevinSmith-dx6xq
      @KevinSmith-dx6xq 3 года назад +30

      @@cods1pe3r Detroit was a manufacturing powerhouse. The auto factories were the biggest companies in the world. Good union jobs. The jobs went to Mexico and we have what we have.

    • @KevinSmith-dx6xq
      @KevinSmith-dx6xq 3 года назад +4

      @Popup Target You guys like us to come buy fireworks. Peace.

    • @cods1pe3r
      @cods1pe3r 3 года назад +14

      @@KevinSmith-dx6xq I never said it wasn't a great city at one time but now it's just a crumbling corrupt mess that takes all the tax money that we could use to have roads that don't destroy your car when you drive in them.

  • @jonathanstensberg
    @jonathanstensberg 3 года назад +7

    Can confirm: Wisconsin still salty about this.

  • @Peasmouldia
    @Peasmouldia 3 года назад +95

    I thought I knew a shed load of obscure and ludicrous wars. Once again, THG pulls one out of the bag.
    Brilliant. Thank you THG.

    • @Ugly_German_Truths
      @Ugly_German_Truths 3 года назад +1

      This one was featured prominently in "how the States got their names".
      But my favorite "war" is still the kerfuffle around Jenkin's ear.

    • @boatrat
      @boatrat 3 года назад +3

      My vote for best silly-war-that-wasn't, goes to the "Pig War". Dispute between US & UK re. border between now state of Washington & BC-Canada. Wherein one Capt. George Pickett of the US Army (yeah, that same guy of later Gettysburg infamy) defied a powerful squadron of British warships. The matter was at long last resolved in arbitration... by Kaiser Wilhelm I of Germany. After a 12-YEAR military standoff, the only actual casualty... was the namesake pig.

    • @Peasmouldia
      @Peasmouldia 3 года назад

      @@boatrat Stretching the term "war" a bit, but my personal favourite is the Jerusalem ladder war.

    • @guynorth3277
      @guynorth3277 2 года назад +1

      Hey, nothing ludicrous, we gained the Upper Peninsula, and me a home that I love.

  • @donnacalhill9168
    @donnacalhill9168 3 года назад +22

    And it still hasn’t ended, only now we fight with footballs 😂

    • @vinceniederman
      @vinceniederman 3 года назад +1

      Since The War Between The States of Michigan and Ohio Years Ago The Rivals Especially in Football Haven’t Liked Each Other Since!

  • @user-du7ix9wk9c
    @user-du7ix9wk9c 3 года назад +5

    Thanks for the lesson. I always thought it was weird that the Upper Peninsula was not part of Wisconsin. You need a huge bridge to get from lower Michigan to the UP.

  • @jiimmyboy63
    @jiimmyboy63 3 года назад +102

    As a victorious Michigander, I quite enjoyed this episode. I've got a t-shirt with an outline of the upper peninsula captioned "toledo war champs"🤣

    • @bulinski1987
      @bulinski1987 3 года назад +2

      I have that shirt, too!

    • @DudeInOhio85
      @DudeInOhio85 3 года назад +1

      Not Big Ten Champs. They have made those in Michigan for awhile.

    • @nyannyan123456
      @nyannyan123456 3 года назад +7

      You guys up north won. I would rather have the U.P. over Toledo any day.

    • @ssbohio
      @ssbohio 3 года назад

      @Kelly Haines -I-O

    • @kid14346
      @kid14346 10 месяцев назад

      But like... y'all lost Toledo to Ohio. You only won if we consider Wisconsin the losers.

  • @WelshWebb
    @WelshWebb 3 года назад +12

    I can 't say either Michigan or Ohio won. Ohio was stuck with Toledo, Michigan is now stuck with a bunch of Yoopers!

  • @FreeFallingAir
    @FreeFallingAir 3 года назад +180

    This channel is so underrated

    • @Mr3344555
      @Mr3344555 3 года назад +4

      Says the one who joined at 900K

    • @joshaseltine985
      @joshaseltine985 3 года назад +1

      I agree

    • @JohnSmith-lw2bm
      @JohnSmith-lw2bm 3 года назад +1

      Yep

    • @yeahitskimmel
      @yeahitskimmel 3 года назад +1

      It's biggest problem is that there aren't any other channels quite like it when you run out

    • @ke6nber
      @ke6nber 3 года назад

      I concur.

  • @raydunakin
    @raydunakin 3 года назад +216

    I bet this was the last time anyone ever cared so much about Toledo.

  • @drewzero1
    @drewzero1 3 года назад +24

    “Two Stickney, brother of One Stickney”
    Benjamin Stickney, real-life inspiration for the Cat in the Hat?

    • @ajknaup3530
      @ajknaup3530 Год назад

      Are you suggesting they had 2 brothers: Red Stickney & Blue Stickney? ( :

  • @humbleevidenceaccepter7712
    @humbleevidenceaccepter7712 3 года назад +47

    I've been to Toledo. I've been to the UP. We Michiganders, definitely got the better deal.

    • @Zzus321
      @Zzus321 3 года назад +2

      Tru!!

    • @dlmdlm7685
      @dlmdlm7685 3 года назад +5

      Yeah toledo probably wishes it was in Michigan. Ohio is just a boring state.

    • @th3rdmonkey159
      @th3rdmonkey159 3 года назад +1

      Wolverine's !

    • @whattheysayk9558
      @whattheysayk9558 3 года назад +2

      Who cares about Michigan though like to this day nobody cares Iand upper Michigan is boring afffff

    • @JackBQuick79
      @JackBQuick79 3 года назад +2

      Proud gander here

  • @thexalon
    @thexalon 3 года назад +68

    As an Ohioan, it's long been my theory that this dispute is of course re-enacted every year at "The Game" (Ohio State vs U Michigan football).

    • @travelinman70
      @travelinman70 3 года назад +1

      Of course that's what you think. But you still have Toledo!

    • @arcticfox6808
      @arcticfox6808 3 года назад +7

      @@travelinman70 Ohio State usually wins that game. Haha

    • @Chadoh21
      @Chadoh21 3 года назад +1

      And once again, we win! Go Bucks!

    • @resetthis9838
      @resetthis9838 3 года назад +1

      Apparently Michigan has decided that they want you to keep it...

    • @ajknaup3530
      @ajknaup3530 Год назад

      We think the same in MI, Mr. Buckeye

  • @MichaelCoylefromutah
    @MichaelCoylefromutah 3 года назад +30

    Today’s war would be “you take Toledo.”
    “I don’t want you take it”
    ......

    • @mirzaahmed6589
      @mirzaahmed6589 3 года назад +4

      Bir Tawil.

    • @grigoresimion8744
      @grigoresimion8744 3 года назад +2

      After reading your comment, I was laughing for a half hour with tears. I guess you are right on these.

  • @yohannbiimu
    @yohannbiimu 3 года назад +67

    I had only heard of this but hadn't gotten the whole story. Thank you for explaining it. As a Michigander, I'm not bothered. I like the UP.

    • @kenschultz3836
      @kenschultz3836 3 года назад +8

      i agree im a life long Michigander and love the up thank you ohio !!!

    • @kesmarn
      @kesmarn 3 года назад +4

      Ohioan here. But we used to vacation in the UP, and I love it too. Beautiful country.

    • @yohannbiimu
      @yohannbiimu 3 года назад +1

      @@kesmarn Time heals all wounds. I've even forgiven Woody Hayes.

    • @afx935
      @afx935 3 года назад

      @@yohannbiimu How long to forgive Rich Rodriguez?

    • @cdjhyoung
      @cdjhyoung 3 года назад

      @@yohannbiimu Whoa! That's a step too far. Boo Woody.

  • @johnface492
    @johnface492 3 года назад +3

    Thanks for sharing. As a Michigan boy there were things I learned from this.

  • @iambrian6601
    @iambrian6601 3 года назад +19

    I always thought it was so random for the UP to be a part of Michigan... now I know why. 😂

  • @christopherdurham1999
    @christopherdurham1999 3 года назад +79

    The UP is still pretty much "perpetual wilderness", though - beautiful, wonderful wilderness.

    • @brentdoolin4791
      @brentdoolin4791 3 года назад +15

      Not many know that the UP was essentially clear-cut of its old growth forest before the 20th century and what we see is the recovery.

    • @williamkoenig7399
      @williamkoenig7399 3 года назад +5

      @@brentdoolin4791 You are correct. Just about every stick standing went into the copper mines or supported mining one way or another.

    • @brentdoolin4791
      @brentdoolin4791 3 года назад +6

      @@williamkoenig7399 and not just that alone... UP lumber went into rebuilding Chicago after the fire in 1871 and Henry Ford used the lumber, iron and copper for his factories and Model T's

    • @williamkoenig7399
      @williamkoenig7399 3 года назад +3

      @@brentdoolin4791 True! I have to admit I was thinking more about the Keweenaw Peninsula specifically. William Cronon’s book Chicago: Nature’s Metropolis is pretty clear where the timber of north woods went.

    • @MultiBrad777
      @MultiBrad777 3 года назад

      @@williamkoenig7399 ironically 50,000,000 tons of peninsula copper Was mined before Columbus even showed up.... and it wasnt native americans :)

  • @robertbennett883
    @robertbennett883 3 года назад +2

    I grew up in Sylvania, Ohio which lies on the border between the state of Ohio and ichigan. The "war" was known to have little contact between the two forces as they often got lost in the swamps.
    And the "two towns merge" is evident in the terrible street layout in downtown Toledo

  • @jimmyyu2184
    @jimmyyu2184 3 года назад +13

    Oh, I am sure someone have already posted this, but I still have to: "Holy Toledo!!"

  • @BobbinMcferry
    @BobbinMcferry 3 года назад +59

    Best part of this entire story is the two brothers named 1 and 2.

    • @richardklug822
      @richardklug822 3 года назад +5

      Maybe inspiration for Thing 1 and Thing 2 from "The Cat in the Hat"?

    • @jtgd
      @jtgd 3 года назад

      Would that make them the brothers Three?

    • @BobbinMcferry
      @BobbinMcferry 3 года назад

      @@richardklug822 I think you're mixing up the timelines of Dr.seuss and Thanksgiving. In other words; are you under the impression this all happened in the 1960's?

    • @richardklug822
      @richardklug822 3 года назад

      @@BobbinMcferry I think you misunderstood the intent of my comment...it was a joke! Next time I'll add a :^).

    • @BobbinMcferry
      @BobbinMcferry 3 года назад

      @@richardklug822 Sorry Richard.. get slapped by enough stupid and you forget it can be different..

  • @DrEstell
    @DrEstell 3 года назад +34

    As a history buff who was born in Toledo and raised in Maumee, I really enjoyed this episode, including the mention of Two Stickney. One error, however: at 7:30 the town you’re referring to is named Perrysburg, not Perrysville.

    • @ShorterThanYouKnow
      @ShorterThanYouKnow 3 года назад +2

      He also pronounces Maumee incorrectly. Even though there is a U it is pronounced as a W.

    • @ArcherIndustries
      @ArcherIndustries 3 года назад +3

      Yeah I grew up in Perrysburg and was upset when he called it Perrysville

    • @kevinlesch9656
      @kevinlesch9656 3 года назад

      I'm not from Ohio, but spend some time there, I thought Perryville sounded familiar but not quite right.

    • @TBH_Inc
      @TBH_Inc 3 года назад +2

      Ya that error bugged me as a Perrysburg native lol. Perrysville is near Mansfield.

    • @glassdave
      @glassdave 2 года назад

      . . . relax you B-bergers lol : ) . . . at least you made the cut . . . i grew up in Rossford which wasnt even around at that time so no mention there . . . unless maybe there will be a future history piece on the Rossford LOF plate glass plant and town : ) Thanks for all you Lance!

  • @joemackey8859
    @joemackey8859 3 года назад +10

    Having lived in the toledo area for the last 20 years I appreciate the insight into my new homes history

  • @markwalsh8913
    @markwalsh8913 3 года назад +6

    Finally someone is covering this! Being from Wisconsin, not even many Wisconsinites know this story!

  • @yoooopery
    @yoooopery 3 года назад +25

    I would love it if you did a video on the history of the upper peninsula. I live in Houghton which is about as far north as you can get on the keweenaw where the copper mines were located.
    It surprises me that there has been about no historians talking about the extensive amount of history up here. The copper mines were supplying (I think) the most copper output in the world at this time, having some of the biggest mining company's operating from here. We were a huge boom town getting people from all over the world to work in the mines. Finnish people were hired the most probably based on the amount of snow we get, 200 inches a year. This is also how we got the yooper accent.
    There is so much history up here like the strike of 1913 and the Italian hall disaster (59 children suffocated to death at a Christmas play on Christmas Eve, 73 dead in total) that almost no body knows about. I would love it if you would make a video on this topic. Like I stated before I have never seen another historian do a video on the Michigan copper mines or the keweenaw and I would love it if you were the first.
    Edit: if you want to hear a yooper accent then try listening to da yoopers.

    • @travelinman70
      @travelinman70 3 года назад +6

      And don't forget the pasties, eh.
      He should do a video on the Bath, MI school bombing.
      One of the 10th most deadly school massacres...ever!

    • @travelinman790
      @travelinman790 2 года назад +4

      I love Houghton/Hancock! All the buildings made out of red granite are absolutely gorgeous. Old industrial town.

    • @davidphillips7321
      @davidphillips7321 Год назад +2

      Steve letho - wrote a book - Covering the Italian Hall Disaster (You Can Find Him on RUclips)

    • @ErickWright
      @ErickWright Год назад

      You know more than enough history to do the video yourself. I've always had a great time in the UP. The ladies up there love to drink I can't keep up with them... Don't forget the fry bread with your pasty

  • @toddniehaus
    @toddniehaus 3 года назад +7

    In my 52 years, I've lived 48 in Michigan and 4 in Ohio. I love the story of the Toledo War and how Michigan hit the jackpot with the natural resources of the upper peninsula. In Ohio History class (taught in middle school), I would bring up how Michigan was the ultimate victor in the war, which earned the ire of my teacher and classmates. I think the bad blood between Ohio and Michigan can ultimately be traced back to the conflict and is acted out in modern day college football. Michiganders don't think much of Ohioans, but Ohioans downright despise Michiganders.

  • @dleland71
    @dleland71 3 года назад +14

    We here in SE Michigan call Toledo "The Part of Michigan Nobody Wanted" or the Ohio Swampland. :) Where do you think they got the name for their baseball team, The Toledo Mud Hens"?

  • @beckykauffman893
    @beckykauffman893 3 года назад +2

    I’m from Ohio. The best explanation I have heard about the Michigan and Ohio dispute.

  • @davidbell1275
    @davidbell1275 3 года назад +3

    As a Wisconsin native, I always wondered we the U.P. was a part of Michigan and not Wisconsin. Thanks for clearing that up.

    • @martyjoseph9507
      @martyjoseph9507 Год назад +1

      I do believe I saw an old map where Michigan had once extended well into current Wisconsin and maybe a third of Minnesota. It was very interesting to study

  • @jacobgibbs8133
    @jacobgibbs8133 3 года назад +11

    It’s so interesting because this history still effects me. I live walking distance from Toledo, but in Michigan. If Toledo had been in Michigan, my neighborhood would probably be in the city. But the Michigan governments have zoning to keep it less city and more rural. So my rural neighborhood might be in the city of Toledo. That’s cool.

    • @zeo5009
      @zeo5009 Год назад

      Oh you live in that really nice suburb of Toledo haha. I’m always lost when I go there, it’s like a grey zone between the two states

  • @fk4515
    @fk4515 3 года назад +6

    You don't hear much about it today, my guess is they're embarrassed about fighting over Toledo.

  • @Outlaw-Josey-Wales
    @Outlaw-Josey-Wales 3 года назад +4

    Sweet I'm over 50 years old and I never knew this learn something new everyday

  • @RobinHood-1961
    @RobinHood-1961 3 года назад +11

    I heard this story in history class in High School In the 1970's. Living in Ohio, I was always fascinated with this war. Thanks for doing this story.

    • @timmorris8932
      @timmorris8932 2 года назад

      Did you have the same thin red "Ohio History" book I did when you were in grade school? I'd love to find a copy of that.

  • @lisamoore6804
    @lisamoore6804 3 года назад +5

    I had no idea this went on in my home state of Ohio. I'm originally from Clermont Co. Thank you for the Ohio and Michigan history lesson.

  • @cernowaingreenman
    @cernowaingreenman 3 года назад +7

    I guess the battle over this small piece of land is why it became called "Holy Toledo".

  • @JimJohnson777
    @JimJohnson777 3 года назад +2

    The level of detail in this episode made me realize that none of these episodes would be possible without the original work of archivists at the time that saved the information about what was going on.

  • @MustangsTrainsMowers
    @MustangsTrainsMowers 3 года назад +43

    I bet that a majority of the people don’t know this one.

    • @speeedskater
      @speeedskater 3 года назад +2

      lot of know about it, we have a road from toledo and across fulton county called old state line, where the road stops lot of north and south roads make a jog right on that wrong line

    • @OfficialMarkZuckerberg
      @OfficialMarkZuckerberg 3 года назад +1

      I'm from Toledo and I didn't even know

    • @thegamingrhino5864
      @thegamingrhino5864 3 года назад

      Everyone be in Toledo knows this war lmao

    • @dryfruit9272
      @dryfruit9272 3 года назад

      From Ohio, so I know

    • @TehKaiser
      @TehKaiser 3 года назад

      Because there is no sense among the populace that states are actually states and that they are sovereigns.

  • @hugmynutus
    @hugmynutus 3 года назад +39

    Michigan: We'll send 1 MILLION OHIOIANS to their graves
    Jackson: Imma pretend like I didn't see that.

    • @JRandallS
      @JRandallS 3 года назад +4

      Well don't send them to Chicago, they'll find a way to make them vote from the grave.

    • @Bilo5x
      @Bilo5x 3 года назад +3

      Michigan ain't got shit on OH1O 💪🏽

    • @JRandallS
      @JRandallS 3 года назад +2

      @@Bilo5x Listen I don't have a dog in this fight. I have never set foot in either state, though I would like to do so someday. One obvious are where Michigan tops Ohio is in shoreline. I don't think there is another state with no ocean frontage that has as much shoreline as Michigan. That should make its manufacturing industry strong since it is cheaper to ship things by water than almost any other means.

    • @oldmanfred8676
      @oldmanfred8676 3 года назад

      @@Bilo5x,
      Take that back, Michigan does have shit on Ohio, wait, What?

    • @countercuIture
      @countercuIture 3 года назад

      @@JRandallS I think both have their ups and downs. We have so many businesses that put their headquarters in Columbus. We have tons of jobs and several counties are known for their wealth in job opportunities. The economy and quality of life here is great which makes living here pretty easy. There is no shortage of beauty and fun here either. I mean attractions and nice parks. Sure you could say they're not as good as some others in every way but the fact we have these things local to our state gives a large boost in morale. Traveling state isn't hard either. Just today I traveled to Columbus, then 2 malls ,several restaurants, the zoo, creekside, and all the way back to the border of Indiana.
      Basically Ohio is a inside joke that only people that live local to it can enjoy. The people are overall positive and everything you need is always in reach.
      Michigan is a great state too and I think since we are both pretty much neighbors we have shared experiences tho. No one wants to admit it but the people in both states are the same kind of people lol

  • @aartmark
    @aartmark 3 года назад +1

    Being a Michigander I've long wondered how the Upper Peninsula became part of Michigan not being attached by land and now only being attached by
    a bridge. Now I know. Pretty complicated history. Thanks.

  • @cinnion
    @cinnion 2 месяца назад

    I learned about this in middle school, thanks to a wonderful teacher who taught us Ohio history. I still find out new details about this, even 40+ years later.

  • @jlizamavera
    @jlizamavera 3 года назад +4

    Really interesting. US history have many unknown episodes. I have no idea. Greetings from Chile.😊

    • @MarianneKat
      @MarianneKat 3 года назад

      Greetings from Michigan!!

  • @Veritas419
    @Veritas419 3 года назад +22

    I’m from Toledo, this is a news story that comes up every couple of years.

    • @brentdoolin4791
      @brentdoolin4791 3 года назад

      Typically when there is a certain college football game.

  • @dougcook7507
    @dougcook7507 3 года назад +2

    I drive down Old State Line Rd every day when I go to work. I chuckle everytime I do as I think about this period in our local history. Thank you for doing this video. Would also like to see one eventually on the Battle of the River Raisin.

  • @nickdsylva932
    @nickdsylva932 3 года назад +7

    Absolutely fascinating bit of history that deserves to be remembered.

  • @Mountaineer3615
    @Mountaineer3615 3 года назад +4

    I recommended this video a while ago on Facebook. I was so excited to see it! You did however miss one key point. The Toledo War is how Michigan became known as The Wolverine State when an Ohio Militia member said that Michigan is holing on to Toledo like a Wolverine.

  • @chiefpontiac1800
    @chiefpontiac1800 3 года назад +1

    As a native of Pontiac, the many arguments that we and the Ohioians have are many. In the end of the day, we are all together as brothers, except when we meet to play football. Yeah, I will take care of you Ohioians, brothers and sisters all.

  • @ryfish5
    @ryfish5 3 года назад +2

    Old State Line Rd is just a few miles from where sit right now and that bronze plaque you showed is just up the road from here. It is interesting to see my own stomping grounds on an episode of The History Guy! Thanks for the lesson in my own history.

  • @paulwallis7586
    @paulwallis7586 3 года назад +3

    No doubt about American history. It's so well recorded, and so often exceptionally funny, that it deserves much more recognition than it gets.

  • @abearbrown1594
    @abearbrown1594 3 года назад +14

    -"Holy" Toledo Here... Which would be Michigan, although its very far outside town where the barn is located. ...Clark,Harrison,Perry & Tecumseh walked here.

    • @abearbrown1594
      @abearbrown1594 3 года назад +3

      Jamie farr is from the "Eastside near tony packo" Which Toledo residents do not consider Toledo. ...However the voice of yogi bear is from here, Mr. Daws Butler

    • @greggi47
      @greggi47 3 года назад +1

      @@abearbrown1594 Don't forget Danny Thomas. Refs to Toledo were a part of his schtick in his TV shows.

    • @red9man2130
      @red9man2130 3 года назад

      correct you know your history.

    • @travelinman70
      @travelinman70 3 года назад +2

      @@abearbrown1594 hmmm, tony packo...yum...
      And the Jamie Farr Classic is in....? Toledo!

  • @danclouse1628
    @danclouse1628 3 года назад +1

    I Grew up and was raised in Toledo,Ohio. Thank you for doing a video on this subject!! Best channel on RUclips!!

  • @davidphillips7321
    @davidphillips7321 Год назад +2

    "And Now you Know the Rest of the Story" - The Late Paul Harvey ( Radio Show ) Would Say at Closing Everyday... Miss That Show...

  • @dimesonhiseyes9134
    @dimesonhiseyes9134 3 года назад +3

    Imagine fighting a war over Toledo. I've been to Toledo. There is absolutely nothing worth fighting over.

    • @greggi47
      @greggi47 3 года назад +1

      Except the Toledo Museum of Art, the Zoo, a botanical garden, extensive Metroparks system, and a county wide library where I worked for more than three decades. Aside from those, you're right. Wheat and chaff.

    • @dimesonhiseyes9134
      @dimesonhiseyes9134 3 года назад

      @@greggi47 those are only worth saving for people from Toledo.
      The art museum is meh. The botanical gardens are average at best. And the library is essentially the same library system that every metropolitan area uses. Except for maybe Cleveland. I guess that is one thing that Toledo has going for it. At least it's not Cleveland.

    • @Nowhereoh
      @Nowhereoh 3 года назад

      @@greggi47 I liked Museum & library. I liked talking to library employees. Been to parks & zoo. Not a fan of any zoo. I'm glad the parks are there. Must seem better now that weed is legal in MI. I remember seeing war history every year , week before football game. People drive the same on both sides of border.

  • @timmorris8932
    @timmorris8932 2 года назад +3

    I grew up in Toledo. Have read Don Farber's book a couple of times. Really glad you covered this major, yet largely forgotten, historical event.

  • @jaygreider4753
    @jaygreider4753 2 года назад

    I have studied American History for 3 decades. Never "deleved" into things this funny. HOW FUNNY!! LOVE YOUR VIDEOS.

  • @mochatech121
    @mochatech121 3 года назад +3

    I live in Lucas county Ohio, and we still have the border markers from the conflict, marking Michigan's border claim.
    Good job History Guy.
    Now we need a video about Mad Anthony Wayne.

    • @markolwick2223
      @markolwick2223 3 года назад +1

      I grew up there! I agree about Anthony Wayne.

    • @dinahnicest6525
      @dinahnicest6525 3 года назад +1

      Anthony Wayne, of course, but also his second in command, James Wilkinson who was out to undermine him, and who had sworn oaths of allegiance to both Spain and France, and sucked Aaron Burr into his Texas scheme...

    • @mochatech121
      @mochatech121 3 года назад +1

      @@dinahnicest6525 And also Lewis and Clark meeting each other while stationed at Fort Meigs, during the war of 1812.

    • @DudeInOhio85
      @DudeInOhio85 3 года назад +1

      I'm named after him. First and middle name.

  • @missyd0g2
    @missyd0g2 3 года назад +3

    Being from Michigan. My family loves the UP of Michigan. Michigan still fights Ohio each year on the football field.

  • @constipatedinsincity4424
    @constipatedinsincity4424 3 года назад +89

    Today is the 79th Pearl Harbor Remembrance Day! There's only 2 left living they are from the USS Arizona!!

    • @TheHistoryGuyChannel
      @TheHistoryGuyChannel  3 года назад +13

      ruclips.net/p/PLSnt4mJGJfGibUtzcMLD-RhxCcE5xURFq

    • @allenhigginbotham3740
      @allenhigginbotham3740 3 года назад +4

      I'm glad someone remembers.

    • @navret1707
      @navret1707 3 года назад +4

      @@allenhigginbotham3740 - oh, I remember. It still pisses me off how stupid our military “leaders” were. Fly Navy 🇺🇸

    • @constipatedinsincity4424
      @constipatedinsincity4424 3 года назад +3

      @@allenhigginbotham3740 even as we speak there's so few soldiers left living !

    • @constipatedinsincity4424
      @constipatedinsincity4424 3 года назад +4

      @@allenhigginbotham3740 Sadly there's so few Survivors left living!

  • @DGKED-td7mf
    @DGKED-td7mf 3 года назад +1

    This is so helpful for family Genealogy ,some family say they wer born in Ohio and others say Michigan in that timeline

  • @djtall3090
    @djtall3090 3 года назад +1

    People that say our country is "more divided than ever" have forgotten our history

  • @randallparr680
    @randallparr680 3 года назад +8

    Here in the Upper Peninsula, there is still some remnants of Wisconsin influence. With the exception of Mackinac and Chippewa Counties, we are culturally oriented toward Wisconsin. There are far more Packers and Brewers fans than Lions and Tigers (and especially Bears) fans. The counties bordering Wisconsin are on central time. Broadcast weather forecasts include parts of Wisconsin. Overnight shopping trips are to Green Bay and Appleton. Even worse, our representatives to the legislature from the western counties have a trip each weekend of 10 hours or more door-to-door. We are so far away from Lansing, I like to tell people that the Czar is our master but Moscow is far, far away.

    • @newtfigton8795
      @newtfigton8795 Год назад

      Is the boundary between Mackinac /Chipewa Counties and the counties west of them what the state line would have been?

    • @ajknaup3530
      @ajknaup3530 Год назад

      Yet another way in which da UP & Siberia are alike.

  • @712dal
    @712dal 3 года назад +40

    Yooper here...... this is taught in schools to this very day...

    • @jonathannovak5961
      @jonathannovak5961 3 года назад +3

      Troll here. It's not well known or taught in the L.P. Too bad. I think it's a fascinating bit of our state history.

    • @richardh8811
      @richardh8811 3 года назад

      Surprised you didn't hear about that in school, we learned about it when we covered state history in gradeschool. Maybe it was b/c I was in Monroe county, which borders Toledo

    • @Adamsadventures83
      @Adamsadventures83 3 года назад

      We learned about it in school in Toledo in the late 90's

    • @zachshort762
      @zachshort762 3 года назад

      @@jonathannovak5961 Interesting! I grew up outside of Toledo, within the Toledo Strip. I don't remember if we learned this in school but it was definitely common knowledge that Ohio and Michigan fought a "war" over us.

    • @countercuIture
      @countercuIture 3 года назад

      @@jonathannovak5961 I was taught about it in Columbus OH. At least the states it happened between will know about it

  • @TheRealBlackivy5486
    @TheRealBlackivy5486 3 года назад +1

    I am a lifelong resident of Toledo and this was the best breakdown of the events that happened! though I'll never make history, It's neat to be a part of it :) I wonder if our collage sport teams rivalries were born out of this small and forgotten chunk of history, if only disputes and wars could be solved in this manner...a football game! Thanks for remembering our humble city!

    • @ajknaup3530
      @ajknaup3530 Год назад

      I beleive U of M was founded in Toledo & moved to Ann Arbor after the Toledo War. I'm quite sure that's exactly when the Rivalry began.

  • @alittlesalty1
    @alittlesalty1 3 года назад +12

    Essentially two parties get into a fight over lawns, and the neighbor on the other side gets arrested

  • @ronaldbharvey
    @ronaldbharvey 3 года назад +9

    Having grown up in Ohio, somehow I managed to hear a little about this. I searched for information in history books, but little was to be found. Definitely something that's almost lost to history.

    • @ArcherIndustries
      @ArcherIndustries 3 года назад

      I only found out from my history teachers in High School. I grew up in Toledo too so pretty surprising it wasn't taught much. My guess is that we kinda got the worse end of the deal lol

    • @ronaldbharvey
      @ronaldbharvey 3 года назад

      @@ArcherIndustries yep, ohio was the ultimate loser ;)

  • @Hughes81
    @Hughes81 3 года назад +35

    We got the U.P. and they got Toledo. Best trade ever.

    • @thomasmoore4723
      @thomasmoore4723 3 года назад +3

      Well done. I live in Ohio. You guys want Toledo back?

    • @MarkJohnson-wt3su
      @MarkJohnson-wt3su 3 года назад +3

      Yep, the joke is that Ohio lost and got Toledo.

    • @ohioborn9929
      @ohioborn9929 3 года назад +2

      I'm still waiting on Michagan cecede to Canada....at least Ann Arbor

    • @chiefslinginbeef3641
      @chiefslinginbeef3641 3 года назад

      @@ohioborn9929 better lansing these days

    • @blackstone777
      @blackstone777 3 года назад +1

      Michigan still sucks. GO BUCKEYES!

  • @souta95
    @souta95 3 года назад +1

    I'm from Cass county Michigan... I remember this conflict being mentioned in my 4th grade state history class, but we never went into detail about it, and it was never really brought up again. Thank you for the video!

  • @entangledmindcells9359
    @entangledmindcells9359 3 года назад +1

    Awesome content. As a Michigander, I always wondered how it all came about.. And spending a number of years in the UP.. we definitely got the better end of the deal.

  • @hankpoth9681
    @hankpoth9681 3 года назад +3

    I gave this story a thumbs up as I usually give all of your stories, however this one is only a tentative one as I am a Wisconsinite!

  • @honeybadgerstudios21
    @honeybadgerstudios21 3 года назад +68

    Michigan definitely won, the UP has far more money in timber, minerals and tourism than Ohio has made with Toledo, plus the UP is absolutely breathtaking

    • @abrahammorrison6374
      @abrahammorrison6374 3 года назад +4

      The Toledo War is why Michigan and Ohio State hate each other in College Football.

    • @MrAeronca100
      @MrAeronca100 3 года назад

      Breathtaking???? the 10 ft deep snow ya mean? you Yankees can keep the frozen north

    • @TheRealBlackivy5486
      @TheRealBlackivy5486 3 года назад +4

      Well, we got Jeep.....

    • @simnaibos6454
      @simnaibos6454 3 года назад +1

      @@abrahammorrison6374 I thought the hate is because UofM keeps recruiting players out of Ohio

    • @Zombeegun
      @Zombeegun 3 года назад +8

      Toledo is breathtaking but only if you breathe the air lol

  • @AveryMilieu
    @AveryMilieu 3 года назад +1

    Grew up in St Joseph County in Michigan and never heard of this! Given that my father was fond of strange local histories, I'm surprised he didn't know about this happening within walking distance of his home town!

  • @hamers651
    @hamers651 3 года назад +2

    In Michigan we never forget the Toledo War. I can say that i am glad my State got the U.P. a vast land of scenery, i hope to get up to pictured rocks one day.

  • @tonybright7174
    @tonybright7174 3 года назад +13

    Being a buckeye myself, I smile inside every time someone from Michigan gets upset. It's like when your brother falls off a roof or something.

    • @alboyer6
      @alboyer6 3 года назад +6

      I don't know of any Michigander who gets upset over this. The rest of the UP was the better end of the deal.

    • @travelinman70
      @travelinman70 3 года назад +3

      Of course you would, not much entertainment down on the farm.

    • @tonybright7174
      @tonybright7174 3 года назад

      @@travelinman70 especially nowadays, thank God for RUclips! Midwest winters rock tho!

    • @tonybright7174
      @tonybright7174 3 года назад +1

      @@alboyer6 the U.P. is hands down the nicest part of our great country.

    • @samiam619
      @samiam619 3 года назад +3

      Tony bright, the only time I get upset is when I have to travel through Ohio to get to a GOOD State! 😘

  • @joepastafari
    @joepastafari 3 года назад +3

    as a wisconsin guy, I'm pissed off now

  • @artvandelay1099
    @artvandelay1099 3 года назад +1

    Since we're talking about Michigan, it should be noted that the natural resources found in the Upper Peninsula each, (timber, iron ore, and copper) were individually worth more than all of the gold found in California.

  • @MarianneKat
    @MarianneKat 3 года назад

    Awesome! Michigander here who married a Toledoan ♥️♥️ Michigan and Ohio still hate each other lol. The UP is amazing. Thanks History Guy!!

  • @RavenBlaze
    @RavenBlaze 3 года назад +9

    And every year during the Ohio State Michigan game that old battle is fought again and again and again.

    • @davidhintz1
      @davidhintz1 3 года назад

      Happiness is crushing Buckeye Nuts! ;o)

  • @jeremys9367
    @jeremys9367 3 года назад +9

    This was one of your better ones, and the title is brilliant.

  • @PracticalKen
    @PracticalKen Год назад +1

    Awesome explanation of this "war". Thank you.

  • @DominiqueFrancon
    @DominiqueFrancon 3 года назад +2

    As a Michigander, I found this very interesting!

  • @phillipgathright8001
    @phillipgathright8001 3 года назад +4

    The Yuppers are always welcome to leave Michigan and come home to Wisconsin.

  • @kathyastrom1315
    @kathyastrom1315 3 года назад +21

    “You ask how I know of Toledo, Ohio / Well, I spent a week there one day...”

    • @korbell1089
      @korbell1089 3 года назад +1

      At leaast you could go to the bakery and watch the buns rise

    • @pakde8002
      @pakde8002 3 года назад

      Rodney Dangerfield

    • @kathyastrom1315
      @kathyastrom1315 3 года назад

      @@korbell1089 Or sit in the park and watch the grass die.

    • @contrapezist
      @contrapezist 3 года назад +1

      WC Fields said it about Philadelphia in 1925, when Rodney was only 4.

  • @frankdigirl1706
    @frankdigirl1706 3 года назад +2

    Thank you for doing a video on this! It's an important piece of Michigan history that nobody knows!

  • @littleritz
    @littleritz 3 года назад +1

    I recommend this topic months ago. I thought it was forgotten. Thank you THG you did a wonderful job.

  • @MrTapierwithmustache
    @MrTapierwithmustache 3 года назад +20

    That is one damn good title

  • @kevinbarry71
    @kevinbarry71 3 года назад +30

    I bet if given A chance to do it over; Ohio would happily give Toledo to Michigan. And throw in Youngstown as a bonus.

    • @coffinsmokej7408
      @coffinsmokej7408 3 года назад +1

      Lol I’m pretty sure Michigan would give up Michigan.

    • @jorge1582
      @jorge1582 3 года назад

      Lmao

    • @danstaifer2028
      @danstaifer2028 3 года назад +2

      As a Toledoian, that's false

    • @stealthcat4126
      @stealthcat4126 3 года назад +1

      Haha No shit we forget Toledo is there most of the time and I live 2 hours south of it.

    • @Wildschwein_Jaeger
      @Wildschwein_Jaeger 3 года назад

      Don't forget Cleveland.

  • @richardsiemion5903
    @richardsiemion5903 3 года назад

    I’ve been waiting for this video since I saw your first video. Fantastic job. Thank you.

  • @gnaxel
    @gnaxel 3 года назад +1

    Thank you History Guy, I’ve been looking for great info about this

  • @borisxanovavich4466
    @borisxanovavich4466 3 года назад +10

    Wait, how does a non-participant lose?
    Wisconsin:

  • @punditgi
    @punditgi 3 года назад +53

    The correct pronunciation is Maw-mee River, where "Maw" rhymes with "jaw".

    • @AaronSAllison
      @AaronSAllison 3 года назад +1

      no one cares about your yankee pronunciation

    • @brandonhays432
      @brandonhays432 3 года назад

      OH-IO

    • @DudeInOhio85
      @DudeInOhio85 3 года назад +4

      @@AaronSAllison well it's a Yankee city so... Btws the south lost

    • @geoffdavis9681
      @geoffdavis9681 3 года назад +1

      @@AaronSAllison you're wrong. I care,

  • @scottbuildsthemall5124
    @scottbuildsthemall5124 3 года назад

    I grew up in the Toledo Strip and was not aware of this story until HBO included it in a documentary about The Game. I like the additional details provided here. I now live in "that state up north", but will be a Buckeye for life.

  • @goldenshine9434
    @goldenshine9434 3 года назад +1

    Great video as always. Another part of history previously unknown to me.

  • @BigFordCountry84
    @BigFordCountry84 3 года назад +5

    citizen of the state of Ohio, home of the buckeyes and several presidents. I will say i have been to the U.P. it is a wonderful wilderness and was a beautiful area.