Neutron 4 Assistant Shootout! |
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- Опубликовано: 8 июл 2022
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Izotope Neutron 4 is here... So is it's "automatic" AI assistant that gives you some nice settings on vocals, bass, guitars, synths, drums, or anything else you can throw at it!
So, how will it compete against an engineer with 25+ years of experience?
Watch to find out!
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#vocalmixing
#audioengineer
#musicproducer
#izotope 
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lol bro .. I was peeing and listening on my headphones to this video… I started bopping when you played that song … peed on both my hands 😂🎉
LMAO!!
Oh yeah, I was just pissing all over my room. Just pissed on my dog, my girlfriend . . . my drums .This is a very urinary track ! 🤪
First of all, Neutron's Assistant is a good quick way to get to a "starting" point. From there, you can begin tweaking to your preference - add here and there, subtract there and here. Second, while Neutron can "Assist" with vocal...., the better option for vocals is Nectar. It also has the "Assistant" - but Nectar was specifically design for vocals, harmonies, rap, and spoken words (male and female). Third, both Neutron and Nectar have a "Learn" function. Meaning that if you have a favorite reference track, or specific stem of a processed instrument - you can "import" it into Neutron/Nectar and they will analyze it. The output is a sonic footprint of your reference tracks, represented as a curved line with Lows, Low-Mids, Hi-Mids, and Highs. Then when you play your mix or track, Neutron/Nectar will place it's footprint curve over the reference curved line to see the comparison. Then you can move "levers" that mold your audio's curve to the reference curve. Plus have the ability to drill even deeper for more tonal and dynamic matching as well (within each strip plugin). Overall, both are actually very intuitive and great tools to have. Keyword - Tools. Nothing beats a well trained and experienced ear. But even a great ear can benefit from using some "assistance" now and then. These types of "AI" plugins will only get better and better with each version. Sooner rather than later, all engineers will be using it - even if it's just to learn from it and apply the same settings for your own choice of plugins. I believe there are already some plugins that scan you own plugin library and creates a chain automatically for each channel - based on the instruments of the track. I've hear a few examples of it - and it is kind of crazy how good the initial output sounds (where you can tweak it even more).
BTW - the individual EQ plugin in Neutron is actually very good. It has upto 24 EQ points, several different Q's, several different bell shapes, shelves, low/hi pass, and dynamic EQ (with sidechaining abilities for each EQ point/node). And you can change the tonal "mode" such that the EQ adds different types of "color" to the sound (from analog, to vintage/classic, to modern, to pure digital). Try it..., it's quite good by itself.
"Sooner rather than later, all engineers will be using it" ..Wrong, while any AI can help simplify or speed up the process for artist's, especially if a lot of volume is being created, its still just a method. Any method used to create art is a personal choice from the artist's, different brushes for different strokes. So to say "ALL" when concerning methods for creating art would be the wrong thought process. Creating art is all about personal expression, if its created with all the same methods, personal gets watered down, controlled or worse, leashed. If they ever did, it sure would make it easy to step out away and be different, which is usually just what makes the top shelf art...top shelf.
I believe you are supposed to use Nectar for the vocals - and also, place Neutron on each track (and disable all your plugins) - not just the master. Thanks for sharing.
No way that is how it works.
I think both sounded good. I like that its quick, you are right that its a little heavy handed, but its easy to reel back in. It great to have as a starting point, especially for people starting out.
Totally! All valid tools!
Of course your mix as a professional engineer is great BUT for amateur engineers or artist I think this tool could help alot because the AI mix sounds better than alot of mixes I hear from other "pro" engineers
It can... Or it can destroy them.
I'm late to the party but I do see your point of view. I've been using Neutron and I do agree it tries to "over cook" it's settings. However, if you use it correctly it can help you find problem areas in your mix but eventually the more experienced you get the more you'll end up using more efficient and effective plugins instead. simply put, if your original audio sounds fine, but just needs a little tweaking, I would not use this plugin on that chain. But, if the audio is trash, this "may get you out of the mud". Brad's mix is much smoother than the Izotope mix. NOW, for modern EDM Genre's this plugin will mostly be find, just know you'll need a "rocket ship" to run in because it eats up resources like no other plugin.
If anyone think this is a "set it and forget it" plugin, then you don't understand the definition of "assist".
Hahaha, I'll bet. Everyone's a mastering engineer now without the years of ear experience in the skill behind it. I agree, AI could really help beginning artist's, especially if they are focused on creating a lot of volume and not trying to perfect an audio engineering education. Most of the subtle differences wont matter to the listeners anyway if the tune has the "hook" it needs to make it rise.
Hey, great tune. I thought your mix sounded excellent.
I’m very interested in the izotope production suite. I like the workflow and the concept of broadstrokes AI and then detail adjust under the hood.
The AI vocal mix was alarmingly harsh and bright, but probably a really useful start point. There are a variety of ways to negate the AI that I think are clever. Such as capturing tones from other productions, via audio lens you can even extract vocal tones from full productions. So far, it does a pretty good job, but typically needs adjustment, which I think would be typical of using any human assistant.
I have so far found the suite capable of making an interesting’finished’ production in whatever style you want, albeit, it still needs refinement. But as a creative tool, not sure there is anything else out there as exciting - at least for me, where I work on such alot of projects, having the production ‘formed’ takes a huge load off and potentially save alot to of time.
I think the power of this plugin, is more apparent in the full suite.
Anyway, thanks for the great demonstration!
So did you have too add reverb when you put neutron 4 on or did it do it self ?
Fantastic! Thanks! 🎸🎶😃
Glad you like it!
When I learned the audio engineering first time, I used Neutron as I had no idea what to do. Since I learned a lot for many years, I found EQing well is the best option for mixing. You need more plugins for vocals, of course, but for other instruments, it's a better idea to use the minimum number of plugins.
Very nice assessment and I totally agree. Your vocal chain sounded warm, intimate and smooth. Neutron 4 chain sounded harsh and digital. N4 sounded maybe a touch clearer but at the expense of harshness. Nice video, subbed
Cheers man! Welcome!
Lol, nice use of adjectives.
Your track sounds better than the AI version. I automatically heard artifacts and harshness which reminds me of Udio or Suno type music. Keep rocking with your style bro sounds wayyy better.
Nice comparison video. Your mix definitely sounds better. One caveat, however, is that neutron is like $150 (or the elements version can be had for $25), while the set of plugins on your strip is ~ $600. Still, it's hard to say if even that is comparing apples to apples since izotope really pushes nectar as their vocal plugin and neutron more as a channel strip. I would love to see a comparison of a couple of different instruments (drums + guitars, for example) w/ neutron as a channel strip Vs. your typical chain, but this was still a useful video to showcase the differences on vox!
Great song & mix! Love it! As far as Neutron, it seems that with a few tweaks you got right to the same sound on the vocal, quickly, with less plugs. Sounds like a winner to me. I'm looking into it.
another one on my list , but to be honest i like your vocal chain. but the change you made was dope
I think I could get it where I want it with a few more tweaks for sure
I think your mix sounds more lifelike - like i can picture him singing that in your studio because it sounds very natural. Definitely fizzy coming out of neutron.
Yea, a bit too much… Not a huge fan of that super cut/ harsh vibe on vocals, just more stuff that needs smoothing out
You're imagining it.
Always great my brutha!
I see the discrepancies with neutron and I agree with most people but how I would use this plug in is #1 it has the mix balancer with the relay and I’d use that alone in most mixes just to get the right to a quick base start. Compression and eq id use separate plugins. #2 id use this for demos 🤷🏽♂️ or for those projects that just need a quick mix. Idk if personally buy it
Um., mix is awesome and am sure you know what’s missing. Your the one behind both because you went and tweaked izo’s. I choose both. Reason for that is you did both. And for a plus beautiful song. I love it. It took me way back. Cheers thumps. Nuff respect ❤❤
Wow! Thanks for the love!
I have ozone, neutron, and nectar. I've always believed that they could definitely have their AI programmed a little better. Always a low shelf on vocals and mixes pushed a few db, etc. Things that don't make sense. But making it perfect would sort of undermine the actual art of engineering. Maybe I'm wrong, but even with sample presets on vst instruments, they can sound amateurish until you make your own changes to the preset. Ehh just my 2 cents. Cheers!
Nah, I agree. You need to maybe use it as a tool or a paint brush, but not THEE thing
@@RadiumRecordsHollywood The automatic feature you used is definitely only meant to provide a starting position and not a final solution… Plus Neutron (Nectar or Ozone) are not meant to be the only tool you might use to craft your mix or master … like everything it’s horses for courses…
@@anacrusisinthailand Yep! Got it.
here's what I think. I believe Neutron can get somebody who's not that experienced in the ballpark to start with. isotope took on the mentality of Todd Rundgren when he would engineer an album,"If you know what you want, I will help you,”If you don’t know what you want, I’ll do it for you". it opens up other freedoms for non-engineers/musicalartists to dip their feet in the pool but without the threat of drowning. the tweaks you made in a few moments of this video we're a drastic improvement from the presets of isotope. the isotope collection is a very in-depth and intuitive workflow enhancement. I'll bet if you worked with this for another 6 weeks working with nectar, RX, neutron, and ozone, coupled with the software you already utilize, it would be the equivalent of giving a mechanic an Advanced bi-directional diagnostic OBD2 scanner versus working with just a volt ohm meter. thank you for the demonstration, great video. thank you for the demonstration, great video.
Or… It can destroy something that could’ve been good with a human mixing and mastering it
Yours is very warm and compliments the song. Neutron is thinner and Crunchy on the high end.
I like warm… 🤤
Digging your mix still better, though once you adjusted the neutron 4 it got kinda close. I agree it's a little cold. Digging the song got a Depeche Mode feel with the vocals. Right up my alley.
Cheers fam! Hyped to get the song out!
Actually you’re supposed to use Nectar on the vocals the ai in neutron is more for whole mix that’s the way they explained it in the tutorial
I was under the same impression. Isn't Nectar for vocals?
Neutron literally has a "voice" preset in the ai... Please explain that if you think these plugins are made for just ONE specific thing and you can't use them any other way... That's just silly.
@@RadiumRecordsHollywood neutron is for mixing tracks and has some good features like visual mixing. Of coarse it isn't going to sound like a professional mix engineer. It also will take less time. The vocal setting is an extra and not the point of the plug in. That why they make a whole different vocal plug in and a whole different mastering plugin. It mixes in a modern way which is harsh and loud but you can give it references. It's purpose for most people is to make a quick mix that sounds better than unmixed stems. It also gives you a visual mix placement which is pretty cool.
After the tweaking Neutron was a smidge better, the line 'she's killing me slowly' was better with Neutron, very close elsewhere. The AI starter was WAY off.
Good video! Your chain sounds more natural overall, I would prefer achieving a sound similar to yours. I think Neutron and/or Ozone could get one there ... but no, the AI results aren't what I'd go with. :)
Good comparison. what mic did you use?
I believe this was a Sony C-800G
Does Nuetron 4 "listen" to the other tracks\mix to best ensure the changes it makes on the chosen track fit optimally in overall mix?
That's what I wanna know too, did you find out if it does yet?
@@JordanDinstrumentals Seems at this point it does not...but updates its AI info on each instrument.
While I'd prefer if it did "listen" to the mix to do what it does, I have found I using Nuetron on about 70% of my tracks really improves my mix and lets me focus on creating music more. :-)
Your chain deffo better. Btw this song is sick man really diggin it
Cheers fam! Definitely get into Josh Rose…. New one from him coming soon!
My question would be, would this make my mix better not being as good as you? Will this help people not quite as pro? What do you think of that?
I think experience and your monitoring environment is more important than anything... Plugins and tech can ruin a song just as easy as help a song.
It makes me wonder if they're mastering A.I. works well to get a start. Got any videos on the mastering AI lately. I hear it's gotten better over time.
I don't like "mastering" ai plugins or online mastering stuff... I typically mix into my master buss and then tweak the final from there.
To be honest, In relation to your super super warm and toned down mix, yes the neutron vocal sounds harsh and toppy. In relation to a pop vocal from a song on the pop charts, the vocal that neutron spat out is on point. I think it would be a more fair test you've made if the rest of your backing track had a more "pop mix tone" to begin with. Clearly you don't like that sound so yes you're going to hate what Neutron did but if you had snapshots/captures of warmer vocals you may be very happy with the results and probably not conclude what you have in this video based on one single vocal snapshot which I must admit is a very bright one. I have many many different snapshots in Neutron that suit many different genres.
I wish more of these guys would use the bypass function because it automatically gain matches it and you dont hear the click when they a/b it. Really nice track though. Both sounded good.
The bypass does not automatically gain match btw… Appreciate the comment. I’ll try and gain match a/b’s more in future content
@@RadiumRecordsHollywood Use Bypass with Gain Match for level-matched comparisons
great video
Cheers! Thanks for stopping by!
I completely agree, it's too harsh sometimes. I end up disabling most of Neutron's recommendations. And btw, I don't see why I should upgrade from Neutron 3, tbh.
Nice video and great mix, well done there 👌🏼
Result is pretty good, obviously there is no deesser in neutron, should use nectar for that. Plus, in the ai page, maybe put the tone at 30% instead of 50% should help for sure. You re chain is better for sure, but mix by a pro with really fancy and expensive plugin. Neutron will never replace fancy plugin on experience engineer hand. I doubt that your workflow was fast as neutron can do an ok job for non experienced beginner. Good video!
It more about the ear and experience then the plugins... Bet I could get there with just stock plugins.
@@RadiumRecordsHollywood surely do! No doubt!
Neutron 4 wasn’t that bad after you tweeked it but yours is definitely better! 🔥🔥🔥
Right?! Just needed a little love!
don’t isotope recommend nectar for vocals you have pretty much just used the wrong plugin for the job I tried neutron on vocals once no where near as good as nectar
I like Neutron, but I find it can overdo it, kind of like you pointed out. I turn the knob down halfway in the mixer track. Also, a lot of times in these videos what can sound good or bad is a highly subjective thing depending on the tastes of the listener. I know there's audio that can be obviously muddy or harsh, but sometime I listen to a before and after where the presenter is acting like there's a major difference and I don't hear hardly any difference.
I like the Neutron mix more interestingly enough
To each their own
Initially I liked your chain much better. The AI of neutron 4 was really trying to kill that vocal with high end. Once you made changes I think they were both good…. BUT…In the end, if it was my song being mixed and that was the result…I would go with your chain. Cheers!
Yea, all these AI vibes need some tweaking for sure! Appreciate you stopping by!
For me the izotope sounded way better but that's just my opinion
Without the thousands of mix moves, neither work…
Your version is way better and it is just obvious that AI can't do things that humans can with a pro experience like you dude, so you should be proud.
Appreciate that. Every song is different and needs to feel right. AI just hasn’t figured out “feeling” yet…. It’s just spitting out recommendations, it’s our job to curate those recommendations and turn them into something we can experience as emotional
I think your mix was better even after tweaking the N4 . I'm pretty sure you could've duplicated your mix by tweaking N4 but is it worth it . That's the question.
Agreed! Just use a couple things I know super well and get there quicker
Your mix is way better however for a indie artists like myself the iZotope mix was ok since i dont have the budget for a $500 mixx and master
Yep, unfortunately the mix is the difficult part…. Throwing something on the master once you’ve got a great mix is the secret.
Honestly, there is very little diference in the two.
Those claiming they can hear the "digital" side coming through, have to think about it: It's ALL digital, otherwise there would be a band playing in the room with you. I think that being it's a new technology, people are going to be skeptical. Remember hearing about the first car and how people just couldn't bring themselves to like it for a plethora of reasons? Same thing applies here.
One more thing I wud like to add, more songs today sounds just like neutron 4. It's digital but 90% job is surely done ...
Yea… I’m not a fan though of that harsh high mid sound
What, you thought it would be a simple one-button fixes all?
You have to "season to taste" to get a sound you're satisfied with.
🤘👽✌️
I feel like the AI brought out the auto tune and made it more audible, kinda exposed it.
I really like them both but I actually think that Neutron 4 sounded better. The lead had a greater presence and it sounded like there was more energy in the mix over all. Yours wasn’t too far from the Neutron 4 mix though. You did a damn good job, as well!
I guess it all depends on what you’re going for!
I think the plug in made it sound better 💯
Sounded way better once you adjusted Neutron 4
Right?! Actually pretty solid
我感觉你用错了插件？
There are no rules or right/ wrong plugins… we are creatives
You are absolutely right. Neutron should just chill out.
If you get good at Neutron's slider adjustments, you would have gotten a LOT closer to your mix. Or exceeded it. Its surprisingly versatile.
Sure, but why do that when I can get better results quicker with tools I’m very familiar with?
@@RadiumRecordsHollywood exactly
btw - just a heads up...just coming from another 'review' vid and neutron in his song did EXACTLY the same chain with similar intensities. It was also a very different song from a different genre. Immediately makes me suspect the 'AI' part of this product.
That’s wild! Can you drop the link here?
yeah the auto mix pushes the freq that brings out the p's and s'es to much compared to your mix. You'd have to put in a dresser after the Neutron.
Yea, I'm not digging that!
Like yours better, but the AI one wasn’t that bad. Was a little too hot out of the gate for me. Yours was more like a live performance, whereas the AI seemed to be going for a harder hitting effect.
But if you’re someone who doesn’t really know how to really process vocals well? This is a good starting point..
Yea, it can be good if you’ve done the preliminary work at a very high level first!
That sibilance hurts.
No offense to you Sir, your mix is incredible, but neutron version sounds really good for starting point
Yea, definitely a great tool
I prefer neutron
Nice
Neutron 4 comes very close to your mix…….I wish it was possible to swap out izotope modules with other 3rd party plug ins, especially the compression modules….
Your mix but neutron not bad
Not bad at all!
Your mix sounds better
I like yours way better. Much less harsh
Yessir! Same!
Nectar is def better for vocals
I liked yours better. The Neutron automatic was too boomy and bright.
Yea, got there in like 2 minutes though!
use reaper and you won’t have any performance issues. Protools is crap for small weiners
This comparison has no validity. You like your mix better. Duh. Do a comparison of tracks mixed by a third party with which you have NO skin in the game and see how Neutron stands up. OR use Nectar, the one designed for vocal processing.
Didn’t know you were the plug-in content validity police… 👮♂️ 🎚️ Oh NO!! Here comes the plugin review police!! Don’t do things that he doesn’t like! 😯
Wearing my headphones and eyes shut. I’ll take “A” all day. Just something about how it feels. I want it to almost have an 80s Jupiter/Juno vibe and the B seems to over process it. The vocals in A are just fkn perfect sounding.
I fkn suck at the engineering part which is why I have about 400 songs in the piano/string section instrumental-film score-ish sounding genre. I can’t determine if neutron 4 is going to help, or just smash the tits off it with over compression. Every thing I have been reviewing is targeted toward EDM/pop/trap/R&B type stuff. Not much out there for us sappy emotional crybaby piano and strings type guy.. any suggestions?
Fantastic! Thanks! 🎸🎶😃
Cheers!