i don't know who spread the rumor, that the csl dd 8nm with the boost kit has an "holding torque of 6nm" but this information doesn't seem to be true. ron reviewt(austrian sim youtuber) has tested several times the torque of the csl dd 8nm, and according to his results, the csl dd even slightly exceeds the factory specification of 8nm. during his tests he measured a peak torque of 8.5 - 8.8nm, and he also pays attention to things such as holding torque, and he also tests the wheels for longer sessions. if the csl dd with the boost kit has a holding torque of 6nm, then he would have addressed/mentioned that in his review.
this is nothing against you but such information is always difficult to verify with complete certainty, on the internet you will always find people claiming things that are not 100% confirmed.
The number does not come from an official source, I can confirm that. I believe that the number came from a reddit thread and received some upvotes. I took the time to Search and find the exact answer but there are no official sources or proof that that is the exact number. Unlike with MOZA, Fanatec didnt disclose this information. I tried to find a tool to measure it, but unfortunately its not within my technical abilities to do so. What I did find however is a thread on the Fanatec forum where Maurice Böschen (Of Fanatec) answers to the question why MOZA manages to have a holding torque equal to the maximum torque and Fanatec does not and his response was that it is because they use a different type of motor. If this really is a rumor, it would be in the best interest of Fanatec to give an official answer to how much holding torque it really has as for me (and yes not everything I read on internet is true), I have not found any source to claim otherwise then what I specified in the video. I don't dispute your information and will pin your comment as it would be nice to clear it up if the information is really not correct. Thank you for the very interesting remark friend!!👍👍👌
@@SimulatedDrivingResource you are welcome! haha you can actually unpin my comment(but it's up to you), because there is conflicting information there, i read the forum post (that you mentioned) by maurice böschen, what he said was quite vague, there is no clear and satisfactory answer, so no clear yes or no, hence difficult to assess. but let's assume the holding torque is really 6nm, that still wouldn't explain the reaction/feedback from most reviewers who could feel a clear difference between the csl dd with and without the boost kit. if it really were 6nm holding torque then the difference to the csl dd with 5nm wouldn't be really big because there isn't a big difference in performance between 5nm and 6nm, that's almost the same power level imo. at the moment i'm too tired to answer your whole comment, i was busy the whole time with the broken shutters of my windows lol ron who tested and compared the moza r9 with the csl dd(8nm) measured a peak torque of 9.5nm for the moza r9, and the peak torques can even reach almost 10nm. his reviews are very detailed and informative, he also has experience from real motorsport, mainly motorcycles but also with gt3 cars. . here are some csl dd/dd pro reviews by "ron reviewt" his videos have english subtitles. csl dd with 180 boost kit ruclips.net/video/X74_IXPE6hE/видео.html tgt 2 vs csl dd 8nm ruclips.net/video/AzHWt-CMSoU/видео.html moza r9 vs csl dd 8nm ruclips.net/video/wG5A4cM9iOQ/видео.html csl dd vs. elite vs. csw vs. podium ruclips.net/video/ud8EHlLFKx4/видео.html
@@SimulatedDrivingResource ron also has the appropriate equipment/tools to measure the torque from the wheels. he also tests and measures other things such as the resistance of the pedals (accelerator, brake, clutch) in this respect he makes very detailed reviews, there are not many youtubers who do something like that, but unfortunately most people watch the " hip/trendy things" on youtube with little substance. you can also ask ron directly if he might re-test the csl dd with boost kit again, he could test the csl dd over a longer period, he could do an endurance test that lasts for several hours,this will give us an much better understanding about the holding and peak torques. or simply ask him in the comments about the peak/holding torque, I'm pretty sure that he will answer your comment.(I've already asked him, maybe he'll answer me soon)
@@SimulatedDrivingResource ron just replied to me a few minutes ago. here is his answer, i translated his comment from german to english "CSL DD Pro including Boost Kit has at least 8 Nm holding torque. Lg Ron"
@@SimulatedDrivingResource I know you flip stuff, but I had the impression that you have started to keep a few more bits than necessary for bare minimum racing. ;)
@@marcianzero_yt no man, only have a playseat challenge as extra rig and apart from the GT DD Pro, everything is sold or in the process of being sold. 😉
@@marcianzero_yt succes my friend... though second hand market out there... but... you could also just burn the Playseat Evo... the Gods would be pleased 😈
I have another question. I need to choose a wheel for the r9 base. The options are moza cs or the Simline porche gt3 second hand. Both costs around the same price which one do you recommend?
I have not tested those. The CS is a brother of the ES, a round leather steering wheel of high quality. It holds my preference over (alcantara?) GT3 styled wheels but that is personal preference. I can not recommend which one is best for you.
Thanks for your review again :) As far as I know the torque is measured on the shaft. That means, in case of Fanatec you used 30cm wheel vs 28 cm Moza wheel. That's 7% difference in just the diameter. In other words: even if you would have the same holding/peak torque then you will feel the smaller wheel more "powerful". I know it well, because I have a Podium F1 and tried ACC with clubsport RS (30 cm) and F1 (27cm) wheel with totally the same settings (wheel base settings, car, setup, track, etc), and with F1 it definetly feels harder to rotate the wheel, so usually I must decrease ffb with 3-5% if I use the F1 wheel.
Thank you my friend for the elaboration. It is what I felt, but I suspect, even with the same size of wheel, that I would be able to feel the difference in strength, it was a real noticeable difference between both.
Please explain more about more refine detail for the CSL? Why would you want more refine detail for the CSL then the MOZA? MOZa have FFB effect where you can change the feel base on grass, road, etc. So could please do an indepth video on this on the difference and why you would want the refine details? And what are the raw details? Thanks! I been hunting a good video about this but so far none. :(
Refinement in a video is hard to show since it is more the tactile experience. I wouldnt know how to make a video about it to be fair. All I can say is it feels more fluent and smooth. Sorry.
@@SimulatedDrivingResource Maybe you can test it and drive it on different surface and try to explain the feel? Compared to that of Morza? Like explain what you mean by raw? SO thank you if you can try since you said smooth? What is smooth? When you go over a bump why is it smooth and how about Moza?
Ok try to imagine this. When you drive a Bike against the border of the pavement 90°, it gives you a direct and brute jolt to a direction. That is MOZA. When you drive the fanatec, its like you hit the pavement more in a 60° degree Angle, pushing your Bike wheel hard but more gradually to the side making it feel more smooth and less brute. Also just driving on the road normally, every imperfection, the MOZA feels like it wants to "show of" how powerful it is making the bump or whatever much more dramatic than it needs to be. Ofcourse this is all very subjective. What I perceive as dramatic, you may perceive as normal. I seldomly drive cars like I do in games to rate which one feels more real. I just think for me, I have more pleasure driving the Fanatec than the MOZA. I already sold the MOZA as I needed the money to review another rig so for now I wont be able to make any more video's of it.
The only reason the r9 felt slightly more powerful was the diameter of the wheel which plays more effect into the feeling then weight does. People always confuse this. Size matters more 😉
Holding torque for it should be 5.5 too since I assume it is the same type of motor they use. However with the more limited max torque you are more prone to experience clipping of the ffb.
@@SimulatedDrivingResource thanks. I am so confused.. thinking of moving from my current t300 where i do feel lots of clipping to moza 5 or moza 9..but confused if extra bucks for moza 9 would be required or would moza 5 be big enough upgrade on t300??
@@gagandev8634 it would feel as an upgrade certainly. The T300 is a very decent wheelbase but any direct drive will feel as an upgrade. But I do feel that 5.5Nm max torque is just that bit too little. You are at 3.9Nm in your T300 now. MOZA also doesnt offer the upgrade-path like Fanatec (separate boost-kit). I would really recommend the R9 over the R5, not just only for the improved ffb but also because it will hold its value better towards the future.
@@SimulatedDrivingResource yess thats what i was thinking r5 bundle isn't upgradable and moving from 4 to 5.6 might not be big enough.. thank you brother for all your videos ❤️ i am an avid watcher..helps a lot
The one thing I dislike about Fanatec the most is that you have to buy a $200 (!!!) DRM-like piece of hardware if you want to use a custom steering wheel with their wheelbases as otherwise the FFB will be disabled
The people buying the Fanatec 8mn, would be buying the Moza 5nm. You are comparing one that costs way more than the other. I do agree with the Fanatec Qr though kind of garbage compared to moza.
I have tried both, and honestly between these 2... neither. Go with the simagic alpha mini! 10 nm and some super high quality wheels, what more could you want? alpha mini is slightly more expensive costing maybe 100 more USD or so than the two in this video but its worth it. I don't feel like I will ever need to upgrade from the alpha mini unless a new technology that surpasses DD comes out. Other than that alpha mini is end game to me.
If I ever am able to review it, I will give my opinion on it. The thing is, there will always be something "better" for just a "couple" of simolians more.
@@SimulatedDrivingResource yes this is very true. So if the budget doesn’t allow to spend a bit more or maybe these are the only two options because of where you live, then by all means get one of these. They are fantastic DD wheelbases overall!
Simagic looks already like another level to me...Something I would consider if I would get tired of the Fanatec... but the Fanatec csl is a great starter
Sim magic does have some promising looking gear. How ever the lack of mounting options puts some sim racers out of the deal. A desk mount or clamp that can be mounted on special solutions would be ideal as not everyone as the space for a dedicated rig. This is my limiting factor when looking at DD wheels. So its fanatic or moza. Even with fanatics strongest DD wheel is available to use with a table clamp that will mount to pretty much anything.
@@geertvangent7508 I’m not so sure about this approach. So magic is roughly 150 more if you get the wheel and base combo. However if all you can afford or get in your country is CSL DD or R9 then by all means you will enjoy that. The alpha mini isn’t miles ahead of these 2 so I would not say you should ever upgrade from these 2 to an alpha mini. The difference isn’t worth spending that much. In this case you would have paid about 700 on csl or r9 wheel combo and then if you upgrade to alpha mini combo that’s another 850 meaning you would have spent nearly 1600 at that point, for “upgrading” to something a little bit better in performance and quality. In my mind spending the extra 150 upfront was worth it to get the alpha mini as now I don’t think I will ever upgrade until DD is replaced by a new technology.
The shaft getting loose on the Fanatec happened to me... tightened it quite hard en didn't happen anymore so far. Availability is a real advantage for Fanatec in the EU... pity there is not more decent competition. Anyway, without issues the Fanatec is a good set. I use it with a nicer clubsport wheel which is 32cm diameter but don't feel like a lack torque for the moment. Great detail coming out of the set.
i don't know who spread the rumor, that the csl dd 8nm with the boost kit has an "holding torque of 6nm" but this information doesn't seem to be true.
ron reviewt(austrian sim youtuber) has tested several times the torque of the csl dd 8nm, and according to his results, the csl dd even slightly exceeds the factory specification of 8nm.
during his tests he measured a peak torque of 8.5 - 8.8nm, and he also pays attention to things such as holding torque, and he also tests the wheels for longer sessions.
if the csl dd with the boost kit has a holding torque of 6nm, then he would have addressed/mentioned that in his review.
this is nothing against you but such information is always difficult to verify with complete certainty, on the internet you will always find people claiming things that are not 100% confirmed.
The number does not come from an official source, I can confirm that. I believe that the number came from a reddit thread and received some upvotes. I took the time to Search and find the exact answer but there are no official sources or proof that that is the exact number. Unlike with MOZA, Fanatec didnt disclose this information. I tried to find a tool to measure it, but unfortunately its not within my technical abilities to do so. What I did find however is a thread on the Fanatec forum where Maurice Böschen (Of Fanatec) answers to the question why MOZA manages to have a holding torque equal to the maximum torque and Fanatec does not and his response was that it is because they use a different type of motor. If this really is a rumor, it would be in the best interest of Fanatec to give an official answer to how much holding torque it really has as for me (and yes not everything I read on internet is true), I have not found any source to claim otherwise then what I specified in the video. I don't dispute your information and will pin your comment as it would be nice to clear it up if the information is really not correct. Thank you for the very interesting remark friend!!👍👍👌
@@SimulatedDrivingResource you are welcome!
haha you can actually unpin my comment(but it's up to you), because there is conflicting information there, i read the forum post (that you mentioned) by maurice böschen, what he said was quite vague, there is no clear and satisfactory answer, so no clear yes or no, hence difficult to assess.
but let's assume the holding torque is really 6nm, that still wouldn't explain the reaction/feedback from most reviewers who could feel a clear difference between the csl dd with and without the boost kit.
if it really were 6nm holding torque then the difference to the csl dd with 5nm wouldn't be really big because there isn't a big difference in performance between 5nm and 6nm, that's almost the same power level imo.
at the moment i'm too tired to answer your whole comment, i was busy the whole time with the broken shutters of my windows lol
ron who tested and compared the moza r9 with the csl dd(8nm) measured a peak torque of 9.5nm for the moza r9, and the peak torques can even reach almost 10nm.
his reviews are very detailed and informative, he also has experience from real motorsport, mainly motorcycles but also with gt3 cars.
.
here are some csl dd/dd pro reviews by "ron reviewt" his videos have english subtitles.
csl dd with 180 boost kit
ruclips.net/video/X74_IXPE6hE/видео.html
tgt 2 vs csl dd 8nm
ruclips.net/video/AzHWt-CMSoU/видео.html
moza r9 vs csl dd 8nm
ruclips.net/video/wG5A4cM9iOQ/видео.html
csl dd vs. elite vs. csw vs. podium
ruclips.net/video/ud8EHlLFKx4/видео.html
@@SimulatedDrivingResource ron also has the appropriate equipment/tools to measure the torque from the wheels.
he also tests and measures other things such as the resistance of the pedals (accelerator, brake, clutch) in this respect he makes very detailed reviews, there are not many youtubers who do something like that, but unfortunately most people watch the " hip/trendy things" on youtube with little substance.
you can also ask ron directly if he might re-test the csl dd with boost kit again, he could test the csl dd over a longer period, he could do an endurance test that lasts for several hours,this will give us an much better understanding about the holding and peak torques.
or simply ask him in the comments about the peak/holding torque, I'm pretty sure that he will answer your comment.(I've already asked him, maybe he'll answer me soon)
@@SimulatedDrivingResource ron just replied to me a few minutes ago.
here is his answer, i translated his comment from german to english
"CSL DD Pro including Boost Kit has at least 8 Nm holding torque. Lg Ron"
Great informative video. Thank you.
Maybe the test of the metal QR of Fanatec is a more comparable one?
Yes its a more comparable principle but even with the metal one, the MOZA is still superior.
Thanks for your review
Very welcome friend
See... this is a proper review
Thank you my friend :)
Are you intending to built an extension to your house to store all the sim racing gear? Must be pretty crowded in the meantime. ;)
Ergh... No... I dont keep the hardware MZ. All gets sold again so I can buy something else to review. The simolians are still not growing on my back 🤭
@@SimulatedDrivingResource I know you flip stuff, but I had the impression that you have started to keep a few more bits than necessary for bare minimum racing. ;)
@@marcianzero_yt no man, only have a playseat challenge as extra rig and apart from the GT DD Pro, everything is sold or in the process of being sold. 😉
@@SimulatedDrivingResource I will need to make you my good example and finally sell the T-GT, the T-LCMs and the PlaySeat Evolution.
@@marcianzero_yt succes my friend... though second hand market out there... but... you could also just burn the Playseat Evo... the Gods would be pleased 😈
I have another question. I need to choose a wheel for the r9 base. The options are moza cs or the Simline porche gt3 second hand. Both costs around the same price which one do you recommend?
I have not tested those. The CS is a brother of the ES, a round leather steering wheel of high quality. It holds my preference over (alcantara?) GT3 styled wheels but that is personal preference. I can not recommend which one is best for you.
Thanks for your review again :)
As far as I know the torque is measured on the shaft. That means, in case of Fanatec you used 30cm wheel vs 28 cm Moza wheel. That's 7% difference in just the diameter. In other words: even if you would have the same holding/peak torque then you will feel the smaller wheel more "powerful". I know it well, because I have a Podium F1 and tried ACC with clubsport RS (30 cm) and F1 (27cm) wheel with totally the same settings (wheel base settings, car, setup, track, etc), and with F1 it definetly feels harder to rotate the wheel, so usually I must decrease ffb with 3-5% if I use the F1 wheel.
Thank you my friend for the elaboration. It is what I felt, but I suspect, even with the same size of wheel, that I would be able to feel the difference in strength, it was a real noticeable difference between both.
Please explain more about more refine detail for the CSL? Why would you want more refine detail for the CSL then the MOZA? MOZa have FFB effect where you can change the feel base on grass, road, etc. So could please do an indepth video on this on the difference and why you would want the refine details? And what are the raw details? Thanks!
I been hunting a good video about this but so far none. :(
Refinement in a video is hard to show since it is more the tactile experience. I wouldnt know how to make a video about it to be fair. All I can say is it feels more fluent and smooth. Sorry.
@@SimulatedDrivingResource Maybe you can test it and drive it on different surface and try to explain the feel? Compared to that of Morza? Like explain what you mean by raw?
SO thank you if you can try since you said smooth? What is smooth? When you go over a bump why is it smooth and how about Moza?
Ok try to imagine this. When you drive a Bike against the border of the pavement 90°, it gives you a direct and brute jolt to a direction. That is MOZA. When you drive the fanatec, its like you hit the pavement more in a 60° degree Angle, pushing your Bike wheel hard but more gradually to the side making it feel more smooth and less brute. Also just driving on the road normally, every imperfection, the MOZA feels like it wants to "show of" how powerful it is making the bump or whatever much more dramatic than it needs to be. Ofcourse this is all very subjective. What I perceive as dramatic, you may perceive as normal. I seldomly drive cars like I do in games to rate which one feels more real. I just think for me, I have more pleasure driving the Fanatec than the MOZA. I already sold the MOZA as I needed the money to review another rig so for now I wont be able to make any more video's of it.
CSL DD is cheaper if you get the 5nm and buy an aftermarket 24v PSU
@@FabioKastro absolutely. The official boost pack is made too expensive for what it is.
does any 24v psu works fine for this trick?
The only reason the r9 felt slightly more powerful was the diameter of the wheel which plays more effect into the feeling then weight does. People always confuse this. Size matters more 😉
And that is why I would love a slightly smaller trucking wheel from MOZA... i don't need to compensate for anything 😏
Haha great response tbh lol@@SimulatedDrivingResource
I can get the whole Fanatec setup base (8Nm) wheel and pedals for the same price as the Moza 'Base' in the U.K, no brainer.
Same here. But in the US it is a bit different. Really depends from region to region.
FYI: The quickrelease you used does not allow peak torque of 8nm. In order to use the 8nm you need to purchase the other metal quick release.
That is absolutely incorrect my friend. There is a limit for podium bases but not for CSL DD.
Mate how much difference between r5(which is 5.5 ) and dd 8nm(6nm) holding torque!!
Holding torque for it should be 5.5 too since I assume it is the same type of motor they use. However with the more limited max torque you are more prone to experience clipping of the ffb.
@@SimulatedDrivingResource thanks. I am so confused.. thinking of moving from my current t300 where i do feel lots of clipping to moza 5 or moza 9..but confused if extra bucks for moza 9 would be required or would moza 5 be big enough upgrade on t300??
@@gagandev8634 it would feel as an upgrade certainly. The T300 is a very decent wheelbase but any direct drive will feel as an upgrade. But I do feel that 5.5Nm max torque is just that bit too little. You are at 3.9Nm in your T300 now. MOZA also doesnt offer the upgrade-path like Fanatec (separate boost-kit). I would really recommend the R9 over the R5, not just only for the improved ffb but also because it will hold its value better towards the future.
@@SimulatedDrivingResource yess thats what i was thinking r5 bundle isn't upgradable and moving from 4 to 5.6 might not be big enough.. thank you brother for all your videos ❤️ i am an avid watcher..helps a lot
@@gagandev8634 я перешёл с т300 на Moza r5 и быстро на r9, r9 ощущается апгрейд конкретный 👍
The one thing I dislike about Fanatec the most is that you have to buy a $200 (!!!) DRM-like piece of hardware if you want to use a custom steering wheel with their wheelbases as otherwise the FFB will be disabled
Just bought SRM new emulator. £35. Works well and is small in design.
What do you mean? I’ve been wondering about getting fanatec but this got me wondering what you mean
yeah the fanatec is way cheaper because a 30€ psu can make the csl dd to a 8nm one but there are still more things i like about moza
Preference is in most cases personal. Good thing we dont all like the same.
Is this r9 v2 or r9 v1
V2
I bought the Moza r9 + es+ srp pedals and clutch pedal and that’s cheaper than fanatec csl dd + boost kit
@@ЮРАШАТУНОВ-б9ц depends from region to region but that seems to be a good price then
The people buying the Fanatec 8mn, would be buying the Moza 5nm. You are comparing one that costs way more than the other. I do agree with the Fanatec Qr though kind of garbage compared to moza.
Price is a part of a comparison and both fall in the same segment when it comes to Max power. I dont see the issue in comparing these.
I have tried both, and honestly between these 2... neither. Go with the simagic alpha mini! 10 nm and some super high quality wheels, what more could you want? alpha mini is slightly more expensive costing maybe 100 more USD or so than the two in this video but its worth it. I don't feel like I will ever need to upgrade from the alpha mini unless a new technology that surpasses DD comes out. Other than that alpha mini is end game to me.
If I ever am able to review it, I will give my opinion on it. The thing is, there will always be something "better" for just a "couple" of simolians more.
@@SimulatedDrivingResource yes this is very true. So if the budget doesn’t allow to spend a bit more or maybe these are the only two options because of where you live, then by all means get one of these. They are fantastic DD wheelbases overall!
Simagic looks already like another level to me...Something I would consider if I would get tired of the Fanatec... but the Fanatec csl is a great starter
Sim magic does have some promising looking gear. How ever the lack of mounting options puts some sim racers out of the deal. A desk mount or clamp that can be mounted on special solutions would be ideal as not everyone as the space for a dedicated rig. This is my limiting factor when looking at DD wheels. So its fanatic or moza. Even with fanatics strongest DD wheel is available to use with a table clamp that will mount to pretty much anything.
@@geertvangent7508 I’m not so sure about this approach. So magic is roughly 150 more if you get the wheel and base combo. However if all you can afford or get in your country is CSL DD or R9 then by all means you will enjoy that. The alpha mini isn’t miles ahead of these 2 so I would not say you should ever upgrade from these 2 to an alpha mini. The difference isn’t worth spending that much. In this case you would have paid about 700 on csl or r9 wheel combo and then if you upgrade to alpha mini combo that’s another 850 meaning you would have spent nearly 1600 at that point, for “upgrading” to something a little bit better in performance and quality. In my mind spending the extra 150 upfront was worth it to get the alpha mini as now I don’t think I will ever upgrade until DD is replaced by a new technology.
The shaft getting loose on the Fanatec happened to me... tightened it quite hard en didn't happen anymore so far. Availability is a real advantage for Fanatec in the EU... pity there is not more decent competition. Anyway, without issues the Fanatec is a good set. I use it with a nicer clubsport wheel which is 32cm diameter but don't feel like a lack torque for the moment. Great detail coming out of the set.
I really need to make a budget free to buy that sexy steering wheel 🤤
you forgot fanalab
I didn't mention Fanalab indeed.
Meh zolang moza geen console versies uitbrengt is fanatec toch echt beter imo
Dat zou idd een gamechanger zijn
Thank for the comparison. For me the only option is moza because I’m living in Israel. I bought today the r9 and it costing me 618 dollars
With the ES steering wheel?
No! Only the base
The es wheel is another 323 dollar
@@danielmalka8884 hmmm... its not given away at a price like that 😔 but you will enjoy it for sure 💙
Comment.😅
😏😏😏👍👍👍👍💙💙💙