Amen. My normal riding speed on my derestricted ebike is 30-32kph so right around the 20mph mark. I could go a lot quicker with very little extra input, but 30kph just feels right.
In Germany, inner city roads are usually limited to 30kmh and having an ebike that maxes out at 25 makes the cars behind you impatient and maybe fuel their hate for bicycles. Whenever I'm in traffic I try to go with 30-35 to keep up with the cars. Not everybody can do that.
However there are also a lot of non-ebike commuters share the same roads. You can't expect all of them doing 30km/h plus. I live next to Germany, in the Netherlands. When I ride in Germany, never notice the cars behind me getting impatience when I only do 25Km/h.
@@JudeTheRUclipsPoopersubscribe I guess that depends on the reasoning we use. It is less safe, to all I know. And the speed differential to bicycles is bigger=worse.
It’s easy to explain from my point of view. When inside it rarely affects me but some areas of flat I hit the stupid brick wall of the motor support stopping which actually gives you an annoying slowing drag. It wouldn’t need to be much higher 30 would make that difference to not hitting the limiter on any of my rides.
Off road, it doesn't make much difference but for roadies, commuters and general leisure cycling, it makes a massive difference and it the difference between wanting to desrestict your bike and not. The Law 100% needs updating.
The speed limiter should be the same as in USA. 32km/h is ideal speed for commuting on flat terrain. Fit person is able to sustain that speed on analogue bike for quite a long.
I respect your opinion. I’d like to go faster. Bikes in the USA have 3 classes. My analog bike pace is 25 MPH + in flats - being in close proximity to vehicles I’d prefer more speed. Vehicle drivers don’t respect cyclists. E-Bike Class 1 The class 1 e-bike is a pedal-assisted bike. The bike's motor will support you till 20 mph. Then, the motor will automatically cut its power. A pedal-assisted e-bike means you have to pedal your bike to activate the motor. The throttle won't work separately. E-Bike Class 2 A class 2 e-bike is a throttle-assisted bike. But, the throttle will support only 20 mph top speed. A class 2 e-bike has a separate throttle control. So, you don't have to pedal your bike to activate the motor. Just twist the throttle and your e-bike will run fully on the motor. E-Bike Class 3 Class 3 e-bikes can be called really speedy. These bikes can reach 28 mph speed. But, it's a pedal-assisted bike. Therefore, to activate the throttle, you have to pedal your bike.
@@MW-jj1rn Class 3s can have a throttle, just that it can only go to 20. The assist of course can go to 28. Doesn’t really matter tho since eMTBs are class 1. There are off road all terrain e-bikes but for the most part they can only be used where other motorized craft can be used.
Luckily, most DIY kits don't have those limits. Also most cities don't enforce e-bike speeds. Just the speed limit over all. I know 2 Policemen where I live. They've both told me just don't exceed the posted speed limit and you're good to go. 25mph will go ignored if you keep it there.
I never really felt that it was too slow when out mountain biking or in the hills or even doing some XC etc but the day I decided to commute with my Levo I realised where the problem lay - that limiter on the flat is the only real place it affects me and it's very noticeable - although I find the Brose a lot less aggressive at the limiter than my Bosch was on a Cube - it felt like hitting sludge when it kicked in!
What do you mean by a limiter? Nothing kicks in on my Bosch system the assistance simply stops at 25 kmh and I’m on an unassisted bicycle. Unless I’m on a long uphill slope or facing a headwind my bicycle does not stop at 25 kmh but accelerates under pedal power to a cruising speed in the low 30s. Why do I need a more powerful motor?
@@davidmatthews3093 Judging by how I can determine whether it's an ebike ahead of me by just glancing at the speed shown on my head unit, you're more of an exception than the rule. The overwhelming majority of ebikers on commutes are going exactly 25km/h and blocking my way in places where I naturally want to go 26-30 after they have overtaken me at the traffic light. And the reason is simple... Without the motor those people would be going 15-22, but the motor gives them a bit of extra power to reach 25, but because it then cuts out, their leg power is insufficient to go any faster.
Agree. I regret buying a (high quality) ebike for commuting. It's actually added time and effort because I ride faster than 25kph a lot of the time, but once PAS cuts out it's like wading through treacle and takes away the feeling of momentum and speed which I love about cycling.
The limiter can be really unsettling on some jumps. Sometimes hitting the restrictor just before a take off can be really unsettling to the point of dangerous. You go from powered to unpowered so maintaining speed can be interesting.
@@tonywoodford9164 with a normal bike I can pedal up to 45 km/h how’s that restrictive? Also I can ride with a 30 km/h average on flat how’s that restrictive?
for me its the sharp transition between motor power and none would be nice to have it taper out. A few jumps I've peddled up to and all of a sudden felt a 100kg gorllia jump on my back. That's unsettling and when I find it most annoying.
Yes it’s too slow. 32kmh would be far better. The limiter really put me off buying an eMTB until I hired one at Surrey hills . But where I live where there’s a lot of flat ground it’s just frustrating when you’re trying to get somewhere .
That's exactly what I did. And the funny thing is that the motorcycle was still cheaper than a good ebike from the bike shop. A lot cheaper.@@AK-ContentCreatIon
Kalkhoff Endeavour 7B Excite 45 can go fast as 45km/h But here in Norway you must have: - You must also have liability insurance on the bicycle. - You must use an approved helmet for moped/motorcycle use. - Can only be used on roads, not pavements and cycle paths. - You must hold a driving license for a moped.
I don't think anyone would consider that bike you mentioned a mountainbike. There are of course many ebikes that do 45kmh. They are all regulated as "S-Pedelecs" within Europe, and as you said need to have insurance and you can't ride them on trails. So not super relevant to this discussion.
@@hanneshertach8013 And this is the point if bought eMTB limited assistance to 25 koh to use it in the mountains and if you need also faster bike for commuting then one MTB is not enough- you must buy second s- pedeec . It is obvious lobby pressure.
I love my Trek Rail 7 and living in the US we have a 32kmh/20mph restriction. On certain trails I can actually go faster then that on my Fuel EX. I recently de-restricted it by adding a Speedbox and now love my Rail even more. Funny thing is though I only activate the Speedbox occasionally, but is nice to have. Keep up the good work, love your channel 👍
@@robertpatrick3350 i ride on the road regurlarly on my ebike have never found it too slow on the road (I pass most other cyclists). Infastructure is what keeps you safe not speeding. If ebikes get too fast they will just be motorcycles and will be banned.
15.5 is far too slow these days, a lot of roads around the UK have gone to 20mph, if Ebikes could legally do 20mph then we wouldn't be holding up traffic causing impatient drivers risking our lives to overtake.
In a word.........Yes! I've got a Giant Reign E+0 and its excellent..........I've fitted a derestricter which I have set to 21MPH (35KPH) and it's transformed the bike from excellent to utterly fantastic. 16MPH is just to slow and when the restricter kicks in, it's just sh!t.
Why would you derestrict the bike and then still set a limit? You've already broken the law so just let the bike go as fast as it possibly can. Did the same with a Bosch mid drive bike and it can top out about 30 but seems more comfortable cruising at 28mph.
I’ve got an Orbea rise and so has my mate but his is set to US spec. Mines way to slow for hitting jumps but when I ride my mates, I can hit every jump at the correct speed
Yes, way to slow ! Steve there’s only one way to counteract this, a sustained campaign by EMBN to lobby the government regarding this topic. It’s one thing keep talking about it, but it needs to be communicated to the major bike companies helping lobbying the government! I think with community EMBN has would be a great start. Surely the advantages of physical fitness and wellbeing to all is a win win, it’s changing the mindset of those in charge……….
These are the same politicians that insist on coaster brakes on children bikes. Good luck. They know best right, they probably still use training wheels and wear diapers.
Good luck changing their minds. They're frauds who never drove a bicycle in their entire life. The real issue is the cars and above. We don't have an issue with the motorbikers. The issue is from the car and above categories drivers that speed up like Ayrton Senna and killing people.
In the EU it is due to MoFas ( motorised bycicle, you know these smelly, slow 2-stroke motor bikes ) being allowed 25Kp/h historically and they decided to classify e-bikes the same.
The 16mph limiter is one of the main reasons why I built my own ebike using one of the many kits available. It's very flat where I live and you can hit that limit very quickly. 20mph is perfect as I'm usually going around 18-20mph with MTB gearing (11 speed, 36T chainring) which keeps up with most city traffic at peak times.
So glad I live in the US were the laws for e-bike speeds aren't enforced off road. My DIY eMTB build can cruise on the flats on throttle(not using PAS) at 50km/h(31-32 mph) if I want it too. On public roads I keep the power dialed down so I max at 25mph to not draw unwanted attention.
If they go any faster then they will have to be regarded as electric motorcycles, and that means type approval, registration, road tax, MOT testing, insurance, and driving tests for riders. So be careful what you wish for.
I do a lot of biking in quite challenging scenarios so 98% of the time i'm not bothered by the 25Kmh limit... but in those 2% I would love to have a couple of Km more to that limiter
Where I feel the most it's a bit too short is when I'm using my ebike for communting inside the city. Even now all one single lane streets in Barcelona are 30 Km/h those -5 Km/h really makes the difference. It' would be great to set it to 32 in order to keep car's pace.
The 32kph is nice as a Canadian. If I’m on my not emtb I usually ride around 27 kph so not having boost for the last 2 kph would be annoying. I definitely appreciate not having the drag at those speeds.
The 25 kph speed limit is there to fit in with driving licence requirements of other road vehicle. For a basic moped you need an AM category licence to ride it, with the vehicle defined as having a speed range of between 25 kph to 45 kph. To obtain that licence you need to be 16 years or over of age and complete compulsory basic training (CBT), theory test and practical test. I remember when a moped was defined as being less that 50cc and had to have a set of pedals that could propel it. At 17 you could get a motorcycle of 250 cc and after passing the test you could have any motorcycle. Then in the late 70's early 80's things started becoming more stringent, moped became speed restricted (I think 30 mph but not sure), the 250 cc limit became 125 cc. Since then things have just progressed with ever tightening regulations.
Great video guys, I ride a carbon road analogue bike and I have an aggressive hardtail emtb with 150mm rockshox domains up front, 2.8 tyres, high rise 780mm bars and a short dmr defy stem... so very inefficient on flats with the high front end and wide tyres. its the bosch performance with 720wh battery. It's fully derestricted and I've found that the gearing and drag is the only top speed limit 'when riding from trail head to trail head' on flat/light grades, I generally find myself cruising comfortably on smooth flat terrain with my tyre pressures up high at 17/22mph on tour/eco mode which is a nice balance between speed and range. When I arrive at the steep/tech climbs and decents I have loads of energy in the tank to really enjoy the terrain that I'm out to ride and loads of battery left to move up to emtb or turbo to still have a nice long ride without worrying about killing my battery. Crucially I can cruise on smooth flats in turbo comfortably at 20-25 and sprint to 32mph before gearing limits me but that is not what this bike is for... I agree that the limit should be raised, but on the other hand, full derestriction although illegal to use on public terrain can be switched on and off, and there's no way anyone could or would ever know that I was riding a fully deresticted bike illegally anyway, let alone enforce it....!
That's all great off road, but the majority of e-bikes sold here (europe) are for commuting, and then you'll be on a mixed use path with analogue bikes, pedestrians, people with prams, running etc. And then anything more than 25 is frankly dangerous
I think the greatest fun is beeing fit. The rare occasions were that was the case with me I felt like I rode an ebike but a light and nimble one without a limiter. Regarding the limited speed on ebikes I think the biggest difference would be for urban commuting. That would be handy because even a person of average fitness exceeds the 25kph pretty easy in this environment.
Pros and cons of e-bike and analogue bikes. I think the current limit is a bit low. For me upping it to 20mph makes sense. However when you are out riding off road on bridle ways and gravel tracks just be mindful of walkers , horses etc. Once you get accidents happening the regulators will start clamping down on e-bike riders
I would use m emtb more as a commuter bike if the were capable of 30mph rather than the 20mph it is now. I would use it for many short runs to the store, meetings and such rather than the car.
Speed is one thing ,as an old git with arthritis in my legs pedling is a problem and 250 watt bikes are pretty well useless, however a 500 watt makes a huge difference, when in France I've used a 500 watt bike rented from a station site. the difference is chalk and cheese.
If it wont go to 32km/h i have to derestrict my bike, because 25km/h is really just too slow. Is there a way to get US version software on european motors?
25 kmh is way to slow here in USA it’s 20 mph and even then in some areas I have people on regular pass me like I’m standing still. I’m almost as fast on my regular bike as I am on my trek rail only difference is on ebike I can go longer distances easier. Speed should be raised to 32.
Much as I love your videos and realise this was a bit of fun, I do think the point that many of us make about 25kph being to slow is being missed yet again. As a 63 y/o and lardy mtb rider I don't have the luxury of mutiple bikes to hand when out on a ride. 25kph for the most part is perfectly adequate for me on the trails and single track (though understand those that need the boost for jumps) It's more the general riding around and on tarmac that it becomes not only a bined but also dangerous to be mixed with traffic (even in urban areas restrict to 30kph (20mph). One of the whole things about ebikes is the levelling up for those overweight & less fit so that everyone can stay together. The safety aspect on the roads should be the focus and the lobbying point. This is repeated on every ebike forum.
32 kph makes more sense for regular cyclists as that's the speed most of us tend to cruise at when riding normal bikes on flat terrain. Having that be a bit easier makes sense. Having it be easier at a speed that's already easy doesn't really make sense and makes the ebike less useful.
I’m in Canada I use a bafang ultra on my hard tail 60kph I use a m600 on my emtb at 45 kph if your in traffic it safer to be able to keep up as long as your not an idiot
As a keen mtb rider and cyclist and ex motocross rider I can only say this , if you want a fast off road experience then consider motocross riding, the power to weight ratio and braking force on these E mtbs is absolutely fucking dangerous, the speed restricters on these mtbs are put in place for a reason , to keep you safe , I used a friends cube full suss E-bike for a week last year , while I agree , they are fun to ride, these bikes cannot stop like a motorcycle, and the speed some of these e-bikes can reach is on parr with a motorcycle, I can see why the Yorkshire air ambulance is always busy attending ebike accidents, in my opinion e-bikes that are derestricted or can go faster than 20mph should be treated as a motorcycle, it’s only fair
My only e-bike is Tern GSD so taking from the point of view of someone using a bike on the road and cycle paths. My perspective is that it is best left where it is because it allows e-bikes to mix well with other bikes on the cycle paths.
USA rider here, Haibike Full FatSix that I derestricted with a PearTune chip..... The Euro restriction IS silly. But..... be aware that once you get above 15mph, the battery economy drops like a brick as your aero profile acts as a wind brake. I pedal in all road and trail conditions and my game is not speed, but battery mileage per full charge. So.......why did I desrestrict my Yamaha PW? Getting caught in some severe thunderstorms while oh-so-close to home and that 20 mph restriction was holding me back. Normally, I keep the PearTune off as I average about 13mph on most rides at water-level pedaling. In the end, whether restricted or not, it's still a chore for the typical bicyclist to ride at a steady 15-16 plus mph......
ive a creo gravel e bike ,no de restricted, bought because i was diagnosed with a heart condition, i only switch the motor on going up hill ,and sometimes when against a headwind , so whats the problem if your fit and healthy ? you can get a workout when the motor stops or use it when tired or climbing
As a commuter, plus my bags i m allways after the cut pushing hard (26 km/h). My yahama motor has a lot off drag after the cut, i tested a bosh, it was easier after the cut, could handle 27/28 km/h on the flat. Non assist bikers go easily over 30/32 km/h on the flat. I hope a new limit to 30km/h will come, but i’m dreaming.
I’ll never understand what’s the difference between going 32 km/h or more on human power alone or with the assistance of an electric motor. Speed is equal, so what’s the point? We’re being eaten by stupid laws made by people who doesn’t even know what a rear derailleur is 🤦🏻
I'm commenting at the beginning of the video, so feel free to tell me if this gets addressed later. My issue with it being 25kmh instead of 32 is the commute, it's actually safer for me to move to turning across traffic to turn right if I can match the cars speed, or come a little closer to it. The greater difference in speed the higher the chance I'll be seriously injured by a car when trying to merge or go around a roundabout.
My bike is derestricted and it's an absolute godsend on flat roads between trails or hills. I very rarely go above 20mph though so it would be a very good fit-all cutoff speed for ebikes I think
@@bassw1758 On a flat road with proper mtb tyres, you'd still struggle to to hit 30mph, but road bikes are allowed to and can do double that with a fraction of the ability to stop...
@@jonathan9380 tys it is - The gearing + cadency - In my case it is ca 40 kph maks. I like travel with 30-35 kph as compromise between effort - baterry range. On longer distances very often go much slower to save battery - assistance off when possible.
I'm from the Netherlands and over here there are a lot of bikes on the road, of which a lot are ebikes. I almost never see an electric mountainbike on the road here, maybe there could be another law specifically for electric road race and mountainbikes but as it is there's a huge amount of people for which I deem the 25 km/h limit way too high.
Traffic planner student here. These laws are made for security in inner city traffic, not for having fun in the bike park. People doing 15 km/h on their push bike don't want to share their narrow bike path with people doing 32 km/h, while there are lots of gray haired beginner cyclists dying in the woods because of these overpowered bikes. European infrastructure and the cyclists just aren't ready for the fast bikes
On the trail it is definitely not to slow but if on any road it actually makes it more dangerous to not be able to accelerate to pull away from some situations.
The reason I want 20mph isn’t for the trails, it’s so I’m not an obstacle to other traffic out on the road. This applies to my MTB and my other bikes. When towns increasingly have 20mph limits, why are cyclists restricted to 15mph? It just reinforces the view that cyclists are nuisances and in the way. If you want to tempt people out of their cars then e-bikes that can do 20mph make more sense
I have a emtb here in New Zealand with the 32 limiter. Although it rarely gets hit on the trails it’s great for biking to the trails and also biking to work.
The discussion is more relevant to those who use an e-bike to commute. The ability to keep up with cars (increasingly limited to 20mph in town)would negate the need for them to overtake making everyone safer and happier
@@embn It's actually the main thing to consider, I wish you'd realise this. If you only have one bike and it's an electric mountain bike, the road/commuting use is where the 16MPH limit becomes a big safety issue. You only have to read through the comments here to see that's the priority for the vast majority of riders.
Thats a good idea to compare those, and the vid even started well by mentioning the avg speed you get on non ebikes. What is the reasonable average you are traveling usually? My dream is to be able to ride with my partner and still be able to get some training done. That usually means up to 31 kmhs avg speed on an xc bike. Most ebikes with limitters feel like opening a parachute at above 25kmhs so your ride buddy will try to avoid hitting such speeds. Ideally, the limit should be where your physical limit is, but that not feasible to achieve.
For me, the only time i really notice it is when i come up to a large jump and just need that little bit of extra speed to push up to the base, just when the motor cuts out on you. I dont have the same issue on an analogue bike, so why cant we have a few mph more? The irony is that when i go to work in central Manchester, the amount of unrestricted, unassisted ebikes flying around delivering pizza's is ridiculous, and no one seems to be doing anything about it!
The Class 1 20mph limit in the US is perfect. I hit that all the time on the roads to the trail. On the trail I never get close to the limiter, except on occasional non-technical downhills where I'm not using the power assist anyway.
I think it depends on your fitness and where you ride. Personally I think 17/18mph would be ideal. I hit the 15.5mph limiter too easily on the flat. Wouldn’t feel so bad if the overall weight was lower though.
@@tobotti330 limiter is not any protection for stronger riders or all descending. It os assistance speed limiter not speed limiter. E bike is not a moped it is hybrid so muscles of the rider are the engine too.
I have 2 ebikes - Giant Trance X E+ (20mph) and a former hardtail that has a mid-drive (tongsheng) conversion kit running hte open source firmware that allows whatever configuration you want. I rarely hit the 20mph limit on the Giant Trance E+. On a charity ride with a lot of flat ground in between bits, I bumped it a lot but settled into a cadence/speed just below it. fyi that eats battery faster than normal. If I used my conversion ebike with the firmware set to de-restricted assist, I simply run out of gear well before 30mph. I could re-gear with a massive front sprocket but then it wouldn't work on hills.
9:47 did you miss the key part where the limiter is either 25kph OR 250W, whichever happens sooner? So up a steep climb you'll not sustain 25kph for long, unless your legs can deliver the gap in power between 250W and what you put through the wheels...
You are right. The US limit at 32-33km/h is more realistic for flat terrain. I changed it on my emtb. It didn’t affect ascents and descents but it is more comfortable in a normal ride. Let’s change the laws!!
I have 2 E-MTBs. A 15mph Haibike Nduro & a 30mph 750w On One Codeine I converted. Offroad the Haibike is annoying when you hit the limiter on swoopy, pedally descents. When the power cuts out you're left trying to pedal an unresponsive tank. Then the speed drops & the motor cuts back in. Then you hit the limit and it cuts out.....and so on. It's also rubbish if you pedal for speed into a jump and the power stops. The On One doesn't suffer from this and is also a joy to ride in traffic where you can keep up with the cars at 30mph.
Probably not going to happen as the limit on assistance is not only for mountain bikes, but is designed to cover all types of ebike ridden by all types of people not all of whom will be as capable or responsible at speed. It always comes down to the lowest common denominator. But, as they say in the peleton, if you want to go faster, push harder!
Very average mtber here, just bought emtb, 200kms done. Did NOT think 25kmph would be an issue (never had a clue what speed i go), bike is used exclusively on trails. 25kmph on climbs/fire-roads absolutely fine. no complaints, in fact it fantastic!! 25kmph going downhill...90% of the time is fine, 10% of the time, bummer the issue is on fast flowy sections with a build up of speed leading onto a rise over a feature or a jump on my old bike i could build up the speed and maintain most or all of it up to feature at the top with the ebike- i'm hitting 35 going down (feels as fast as my non-ebike) but i loose SO MUCH going up to the top that i'm hitting the rise too slow, max 25 where i should be at 30+ 32kmph would be pretty sweet for me. what i really dont like is how hard motor manufacturers make it to de-restrict. the highest speed allowed on a motorway here is 120kmph. i'm not aware of any private car that is limited to this... i dont see why the manufacturers feel the need to police this limit, thats up to the law surely. also, have seen a few of theese vids that seem to suggest 25 is fine if you adapt your technique or some other bs like that. i dont know whose pocket that message is coming from, but I'm confident if the law changed 95% of owners would be upgrading their firmware to the higher limit. 25kmph is deffo not enough, 32 is more reasonable. Emtb is still worth it, even with the low speed limit, but i would have had 2nd thoughts. if i ever buy another one, i'll be sure that the motor can be easily unlocked, so wont be another Shimano!!
For me it's not a getting places quickly thing, it's a traffic safety thing. Lots of 30 kph streets around here, and with a 25 kph bike you're just barely slow enough to be viewed as an obstacle to drivers, instead of being able to keep up with traffic. Though that said there would probably still be a bunch of complete jackass drivers that would still overtake you at 45 for going 32 in a 30 simply because you're on a bicycle.
There’s no probably about it. I have cars overtake me every day when I’m going ~30 kph and approaching a queue of stationary traffic. I of course am about to wiz down the inside, or possibly the outside… if I hadn’t just been blocked by some utter twit. I often wonder what they think when I immediately re-pass them?
Definitely need this in Australia, would be a nice feature when riding to the trail head along the roads, but I don't feel I need it on the trails as your usually flyen downhill, and I've got no interest in chipping the unit especially with the Bosch unit.
When riding into a big jump there is nothing worse than hitting the limiter, it's really off putting as it changes the pedal stroke. It's also occasionally a bit too slow on the decents too. But that's only on some flow tracks.
I am 48 years old, got an E-BIKE which was registered to 20mph. Being curious I unlocked the speedometer. Big mistake. I hit some fine gravel and the whole bike ended up going sideways before throwing me. Used the side of my face and bare hands to meet the road. Was in bits for weeks after. So reinstalled the 20k limiter and it's fine at that. Still picking up great speed going on any downhill slope, no matter how small
Well we have speed pedelecs too. The issue is that those are regulated way too heavily which causes the prices to be about 4-5 times as much as they should be.
I'm in Canada with 32km/h limit and I find in Eco on flat off road surface I'm going 27 - 29, which is perfect, if I use anything above Eco then I find I go past the limiter, I Usually climb in Eco also and would seldom go over 25KM/h
I regularly beat my e-bike friends on flat transfers even riding my 17 kg enduro bike. Another problem with the 25 km/h limit is frequently being right on the limit when trying to get up to speed being on cranks before the jump - that sudden lost of power right before setting up for the jump is just annoying.
I live in a very hilly area. I personally would prefer a 300w motor rather than 250w over a change in max speed. Some of the hills are still a struggle in really low gears, especially if I'm fully loaded up doing a bikepacking trip or something. Having said that, in town, the safest speed in traffic is the same speed as the other traffic. I think a bump to 20mph has an argument for being safer than 15mph. Less chance of a collision due to overtaking, Being able to keep up with other traffic, makes for easier maneuvering, and the number of cars going past you is less meaning there are fewer opportunities for a collision.
The first thing i did when i got my ebike was to de-restrict it. Reason being is i treat it like a high end sports car. I feel i should be able to choose when to use the power to its full potential; right place right time type of thinking. I’d like to believe 99% of users are relatively responsible enough to know when to be fast and when to slow the hell down.
I’m from Australia and the trails where I live are mostly flat and pretty open. I can’t do any of the jumps at 25km/h. Some of the trails you spend the majority of it on 25km/h stuck on the limiter. I raised it to 30.5km/h and the extra 5km/h makes so much difference. I still hit the limiter sometimes but it’s pretty short and doesn’t bother me. I love the seating position of my ebike and the extra traction I get from the weight, I don’t get so tired and my enjoyment lasts much longer. It’s awesome, but not at 25km/h. On some tracks, Im faster on my conventional bike. In this case The 25km/h doesn’t make sense to me at all. While we’re at it, why no spare battery in competition? That doesn’t make sense either?
32kmhr all the way, I hate the feeling of drag on fast runs when this happens it ruins the experience. Can’t EMBN start a govt petition. There must be enough subscribers here to get 100k signatures.
Personally I have never had a problem with 25Km/h here in Australia (probably to do with my lack of skills at this point) and I have never really noticed when the limiter comes in on my Levo. I don't ride big jumps but I Defiantly understand why you would be unsettled hitting the limiter just before you hit a jump. I have ridden an e-bike that had been tweaked to 30Km/h, Quicker up hills, the same down hill, and overall more battery consumption by about 10%
I had problem because when achieving 23kph system decreases assistance level and stop working when 25. Going on heavy eMTB-bike you can feel big resistance without assistance so you can not pedal too long than you go slower and assistance is turning on. This 25 speed is quite small so again turn off then again turn -on - Such situation makes me nervous - electronics also do not like such kind of working - for me it is unacceptable. My friend had to change engine because it got damaged - I think continous tur on/off could be the reason My e-bike has the same engine but is now spoiled - it means limiter do not work so it is much nicer ride and world does not know that my bike is going 27 kph and engine works. All are happy.
Great clip guys,, this subject is constantly questioned, I have already signed the partition that was doing the rounds a while ago. 32 kph is 19.8 mph which I think is a realistic speed for the flat, this doesn't mean you ride constantly at this speed but it's nice to be able to use a £9000 bike with a bosch motor or one of the other powered bikes should you wish,, My car has a top speed of 145mph but doesn't mean I drive at these speeds.
Pro Gravel riders doing a full gas effort on the fastest courses average 32kmh. I find it hard to believe you would routinely ride that quickly on mtb.
Yeah, I never understood the restriction. I did this test with a mate and after the initial acceleration, once the motor turns off, a normal bike just breezes past an e-bike.
I think the USA limit of 20mph would be more than enough for most folks. I do go over the 15mph limit quite often even at a bike park but more often than not if I'm going faster than that I've got more than enough gravity assistance! Lol. The only time the limit becomes an issue is on a trail ride and I'm riding with my mate who is very fit and will sit over 15mph on single-track etc.
Great video. Thanks for the amazing work you do. The limit seems good on the Trek Fuel Exe here in the USA. Had a Levo 2019 expert and could feel the limit sometimes but very seldom and only on a flat road, don’t seem to ever on the Trek so is there a reason for that? I think it’s the TQ motor that makes the speed limiter less noticeable, right?
Limiter is fine. At least on E-MTBs. Because the gearing on them is such, that you can't really pedal comfortably much faster then 25kph anyway (unless you got hamster-legs). On my Cube Reaction Hybrid, it starts to run out of gears at about 30kph. And while the rear cassette has 11 gears, for normal city riding I spend most of the time in the highest 4, and on any kind of serious straight, highest 2. Bottom line, it's not just about de-restricting a bike. You'd need to get a bigger front chainring to lengthen the gears as a whole, too. And on a mid-drive ebike, the front chainring is part of the motor, so that's a big hassle (and expensive) to replace. E-MTBs are geared for, surprisingly enough - heavy climbing on mountain trails. Not setting speed records on the straight. So while I thought about de-restricting mine, after a month of riding now, I don't see the point. The gearing simply isn't set up to go fast on the straight. On a E-gravel bike or road bike, with their longer gears, is a different story, of course. If I had a nice big front chainring that could get me up to those kinds of speeds without my legs spinning out, I'd do it in a heartbeat. But as it is - not worth it.
I'm not against the increase at all however I always average about 20mph on the road (on the flat) and I don't particularly feel the drag as the assist ends. I also think it keeps me fitter. I have a 1250cc adventure bike for real speed 😉
In my experience with a 32km/h Giant, the only time I ever go faster than the assistance, I'm on the road (with 50km/h to 70km/h cars) riding to and from the trails. My average off-road speed is closer to 15km/h. It seems like the 25km/h limit was solely based on "vibes" rather than any actual real-world data.
I may of told my Shimano motor is was American and was driving 26 inch wheels. This got rid of the annoying custard peddling that often seemed to occur in jump transitions.
If the limit was 20mph then I'm pretty sure hardly anyone would bother to derestrict their bikes.
Right. Here in Canada, bikes are limited at 32km/h and i dont know anybody who have deristricted his bike.
Human nature would say otherwise
Amen. My normal riding speed on my derestricted ebike is 30-32kph so right around the 20mph mark.
I could go a lot quicker with very little extra input, but 30kph just feels right.
Totally agree 20mph makes much more sense. Especially when you ride on the roads.
This is what I say since the beginning. 32 is ok. 25 is not.
In Germany, inner city roads are usually limited to 30kmh and having an ebike that maxes out at 25 makes the cars behind you impatient and maybe fuel their hate for bicycles. Whenever I'm in traffic I try to go with 30-35 to keep up with the cars. Not everybody can do that.
You are responsible, if you always please them, they will never learn. Be strong. And be the patient one yourself. Who can endure the pushing.
30 makes more sense than 32... Or 35 even
However there are also a lot of non-ebike commuters share the same roads. You can't expect all of them doing 30km/h plus. I live next to Germany, in the Netherlands. When I ride in Germany, never notice the cars behind me getting impatience when I only do 25Km/h.
Urban roads in the Uk are increasingly limited to 32kph it makes complete sense for e-bikes to be allowed to keep up
The faster you make them the faster forest centres and councils ban them
I'm from Brasil. The limit was 25km/h here. In 2023 became 32km/h. I think 32km/h is better.
Was it possible to get older models updated to the new speed?
@@markcosens1probably not, in new South Wales Australia they did something similar and allowed people to ride bikes with 500w motors from Feb 2023.
"Better" means what? It's obviously faster.
@@monowheeling well, it's a much more reasonable speed to be doing on the road than 25.
@@JudeTheRUclipsPoopersubscribe I guess that depends on the reasoning we use. It is less safe, to all I know. And the speed differential to bicycles is bigger=worse.
It’s easy to explain from my point of view. When inside it rarely affects me but some areas of flat I hit the stupid brick wall of the motor support stopping which actually gives you an annoying slowing drag.
It wouldn’t need to be much higher 30 would make that difference to not hitting the limiter on any of my rides.
Off road, it doesn't make much difference but for roadies, commuters and general leisure cycling, it makes a massive difference and it the difference between wanting to desrestict your bike and not. The Law 100% needs updating.
Definitely 👌
The speed limiter should be the same as in USA. 32km/h is ideal speed for commuting on flat terrain. Fit person is able to sustain that speed on analogue bike for quite a long.
I respect your opinion. I’d like to go faster. Bikes in the USA have 3 classes. My analog bike pace is 25 MPH + in flats - being in close proximity to vehicles I’d prefer more speed. Vehicle drivers don’t respect cyclists.
E-Bike Class 1
The class 1 e-bike is a pedal-assisted bike. The bike's motor will support you till 20 mph. Then, the motor will automatically cut its power. A pedal-assisted e-bike means you have to pedal your bike to activate the motor. The throttle won't work separately.
E-Bike Class 2
A class 2 e-bike is a throttle-assisted bike. But, the throttle will support only 20 mph top speed. A class 2 e-bike has a separate throttle control. So, you don't have to pedal your bike to activate the motor. Just twist the throttle and your e-bike will run fully on the motor.
E-Bike Class 3
Class 3 e-bikes can be called really speedy. These bikes can reach 28 mph speed. But, it's a pedal-assisted bike. Therefore, to activate the throttle, you have to pedal your bike.
@@MW-jj1rn Class 3s can have a throttle, just that it can only go to 20. The assist of course can go to 28. Doesn’t really matter tho since eMTBs are class 1. There are off road all terrain e-bikes but for the most part they can only be used where other motorized craft can be used.
A fit person can maintain that speed on a limited e-bike, on mine assistance isn’t needed above 25 kmh, it’s an efficient bicycle at those speeds.
@@cycologist7069 Yeah 3's can have throttle or be both ped assisted thanks for catching that!
Luckily, most DIY kits don't have those limits. Also most cities don't enforce e-bike speeds. Just the speed limit over all. I know 2 Policemen where I live. They've both told me just don't exceed the posted speed limit and you're good to go. 25mph will go ignored if you keep it there.
I never really felt that it was too slow when out mountain biking or in the hills or even doing some XC etc but the day I decided to commute with my Levo I realised where the problem lay - that limiter on the flat is the only real place it affects me and it's very noticeable - although I find the Brose a lot less aggressive at the limiter than my Bosch was on a Cube - it felt like hitting sludge when it kicked in!
On the Fazzua Motor you simply ride through its Brilliant 👍
Same experience here. Limit at 30, and all is good!
What do you mean by a limiter? Nothing kicks in on my Bosch system the assistance simply stops at 25 kmh and I’m on an unassisted bicycle. Unless I’m on a long uphill slope or facing a headwind my bicycle does not stop at 25 kmh but accelerates under pedal power to a cruising speed in the low 30s. Why do I need a more powerful motor?
@@davidmatthews3093 Judging by how I can determine whether it's an ebike ahead of me by just glancing at the speed shown on my head unit, you're more of an exception than the rule. The overwhelming majority of ebikers on commutes are going exactly 25km/h and blocking my way in places where I naturally want to go 26-30 after they have overtaken me at the traffic light.
And the reason is simple... Without the motor those people would be going 15-22, but the motor gives them a bit of extra power to reach 25, but because it then cuts out, their leg power is insufficient to go any faster.
Agree. I regret buying a (high quality) ebike for commuting. It's actually added time and effort because I ride faster than 25kph a lot of the time, but once PAS cuts out it's like wading through treacle and takes away the feeling of momentum and speed which I love about cycling.
The limiter can be really unsettling on some jumps. Sometimes hitting the restrictor just before a take off can be really unsettling to the point of dangerous. You go from powered to unpowered so maintaining speed can be interesting.
Especially in wet draggy ground conditions
then buy a normal bike
@@maxpetification how would that help. normal bike has is more restrictive. Maybe you don't have ebike and don't like them so not an informed comment
Absolutely the worst thing about restricted e-bikes..
@@tonywoodford9164 with a normal bike I can pedal up to 45 km/h how’s that restrictive? Also I can ride with a 30 km/h average on flat how’s that restrictive?
for me its the sharp transition between motor power and none would be nice to have it taper out. A few jumps I've peddled up to and all of a sudden felt a 100kg gorllia jump on my back. That's unsettling and when I find it most annoying.
I've found that sport mode tapers off whereas turbo does not
I've found that sport mode tapers off whereas turbo does not
On my Bosch it tapers out gradually. There’s even a little graph to show you.
Why isn't Cycling UK & British Cycling campaigning to get the laws changed ! They are quick enough to take your your membership fees.
Yes it’s too slow. 32kmh would be far better. The limiter really put me off buying an eMTB until I hired one at Surrey hills . But where I live where there’s a lot of flat ground it’s just frustrating when you’re trying to get somewhere .
we think the same 😎 32 exactly is always my thought when i ride!
Buy a speedbox, i did... best thing i did, plug in forget and ride as fast as your legs will take you.
yes, but I once got a bit too off-road...walk button doesn't work
then buy a motorbik😄e
That's exactly what I did. And the funny thing is that the motorcycle was still cheaper than a good ebike from the bike shop. A lot cheaper.@@AK-ContentCreatIon
Kalkhoff Endeavour 7B Excite 45 can go fast as 45km/h
But here in Norway you must have:
- You must also have liability insurance on the bicycle.
- You must use an approved helmet for moped/motorcycle use.
- Can only be used on roads, not pavements and cycle paths.
- You must hold a driving license for a moped.
I don't think anyone would consider that bike you mentioned a mountainbike. There are of course many ebikes that do 45kmh. They are all regulated as "S-Pedelecs" within Europe, and as you said need to have insurance and you can't ride them on trails. So not super relevant to this discussion.
@@hanneshertach8013 And this is the point if bought eMTB limited assistance to 25 koh to use it in the mountains and if you need also faster bike for commuting then one MTB is not enough- you must buy second s- pedeec .
It is obvious lobby pressure.
@@hanneshertach8013 In Denmark is allowed drive to cycle paths with s-pedelec and no need number plade.
25 km/h is fast enough. If you want to go faster - get fitter.
I love my Trek Rail 7 and living in the US we have a 32kmh/20mph restriction. On certain trails I can actually go faster then that on my Fuel EX. I recently de-restricted it by adding a Speedbox and now love my Rail even more. Funny thing is though I only activate the Speedbox occasionally, but is nice to have. Keep up the good work, love your channel 👍
Should be increased to 20 mph or 32 kilometres as this is the minimum speed limit on uk roads signs
That’s the max limit in wales 😞
they're off road bikes 25kmh plenty quick enough
Most people ride to the trails and spend most of their time on road 25kph is insufficient and is in many circumstances dangerous.
@@robertpatrick3350 yep exactly , I spend more time on tarmac than on the trails
@@robertpatrick3350 i ride on the road regurlarly on my ebike have never found it too slow on the road (I pass most other cyclists). Infastructure is what keeps you safe not speeding. If ebikes get too fast they will just be motorcycles and will be banned.
15.5 is far too slow these days, a lot of roads around the UK have gone to 20mph, if Ebikes could legally do 20mph then we wouldn't be holding up traffic causing impatient drivers risking our lives to overtake.
If limit is 20 mph, impatient drivers will drive at 25 mph at least, even faster as soon as they spot a bicycle in front.
In a word.........Yes! I've got a Giant Reign E+0 and its excellent..........I've fitted a derestricter which I have set to 21MPH (35KPH) and it's transformed the bike from excellent to utterly fantastic. 16MPH is just to slow and when the restricter kicks in, it's just sh!t.
Why would you derestrict the bike and then still set a limit? You've already broken the law so just let the bike go as fast as it possibly can. Did the same with a Bosch mid drive bike and it can top out about 30 but seems more comfortable cruising at 28mph.
I’ve got an Orbea rise and so has my mate but his is set to US spec. Mines way to slow for hitting jumps but when I ride my mates, I can hit every jump at the correct speed
20 miles or 35km/h would be nice. Sometimes you have to transfer from one trail to the other and then it would be nice to do a bit more.
Yes, way to slow ! Steve there’s only one way to counteract this, a sustained campaign by EMBN to lobby the government regarding this topic. It’s one thing keep talking about it, but it needs to be communicated to the major bike companies helping lobbying the government! I think with community EMBN has would be a great start. Surely the advantages of physical fitness and wellbeing to all is a win win, it’s changing the mindset of those in charge……….
These are the same politicians that insist on coaster brakes on children bikes. Good luck. They know best right, they probably still use training wheels and wear diapers.
Good luck changing their minds. They're frauds who never drove a bicycle in their entire life. The real issue is the cars and above. We don't have an issue with the motorbikers. The issue is from the car and above categories drivers that speed up like Ayrton Senna and killing people.
Hi Steve, how did the EU and USA come to their respective limiter speeds and more importantly what was their rationale on their restrictions.
I’m in US , my guess is because 750w=1 HP. For US anyway.
In the EU it is due to MoFas ( motorised bycicle, you know these smelly, slow 2-stroke motor bikes ) being allowed 25Kp/h historically and they decided to classify e-bikes the same.
Car lobby in EU...
The 16mph limiter is one of the main reasons why I built my own ebike using one of the many kits available.
It's very flat where I live and you can hit that limit very quickly.
20mph is perfect as I'm usually going around 18-20mph with MTB gearing (11 speed, 36T chainring) which keeps up with most city traffic at peak times.
So glad I live in the US were the laws for e-bike speeds aren't enforced off road. My DIY eMTB build can cruise on the flats on throttle(not using PAS) at 50km/h(31-32 mph) if I want it too. On public roads I keep the power dialed down so I max at 25mph to not draw unwanted attention.
If they go any faster then they will have to be regarded as electric motorcycles, and that means type approval, registration, road tax, MOT testing, insurance, and driving tests for riders. So be careful what you wish for.
For commuting 25 kph is too slow. I’m usually cruzin at 32 -35 kph. Not going the same speed as the cars is dangerous.
Get a motorbike.
I do a lot of biking in quite challenging scenarios so 98% of the time i'm not bothered by the 25Kmh limit... but in those 2% I would love to have a couple of Km more to that limiter
Where I feel the most it's a bit too short is when I'm using my ebike for communting inside the city. Even now all one single lane streets in Barcelona are 30 Km/h those -5 Km/h really makes the difference. It' would be great to set it to 32 in order to keep car's pace.
car brain
Bio bike ?
The 32kph is nice as a Canadian. If I’m on my not emtb I usually ride around 27 kph so not having boost for the last 2 kph would be annoying. I definitely appreciate not having the drag at those speeds.
The 25 kph speed limit is there to fit in with driving licence requirements of other road vehicle. For a basic moped you need an AM category licence to ride it, with the vehicle defined as having a speed range of between 25 kph to 45 kph. To obtain that licence you need to be 16 years or over of age and complete compulsory basic training (CBT), theory test and practical test.
I remember when a moped was defined as being less that 50cc and had to have a set of pedals that could propel it. At 17 you could get a motorcycle of 250 cc and after passing the test you could have any motorcycle. Then in the late 70's early 80's things started becoming more stringent, moped became speed restricted (I think 30 mph but not sure), the 250 cc limit became 125 cc. Since then things have just progressed with ever tightening regulations.
Great video guys, I ride a carbon road analogue bike and I have an aggressive hardtail emtb with 150mm rockshox domains up front, 2.8 tyres, high rise 780mm bars and a short dmr defy stem... so very inefficient on flats with the high front end and wide tyres.
its the bosch performance with 720wh battery.
It's fully derestricted and I've found that the gearing and drag is the only top speed limit 'when riding from trail head to trail head' on flat/light grades, I generally find myself cruising comfortably on smooth flat terrain with my tyre pressures up high at 17/22mph on tour/eco mode which is a nice balance between speed and range.
When I arrive at the steep/tech climbs and decents I have loads of energy in the tank to really enjoy the terrain that I'm out to ride and loads of battery left to move up to emtb or turbo to still have a nice long ride without worrying about killing my battery.
Crucially I can cruise on smooth flats in turbo comfortably at 20-25 and sprint to 32mph before gearing limits me but that is not what this bike is for...
I agree that the limit should be raised, but on the other hand, full derestriction although illegal to use on public terrain can be switched on and off, and there's no way anyone could or would ever know that I was riding a fully deresticted bike illegally anyway, let alone enforce it....!
Yeah speed on ebike should be a least 20mph before motor cut off not 15mph
That's all great off road, but the majority of e-bikes sold here (europe) are for commuting, and then you'll be on a mixed use path with analogue bikes, pedestrians, people with prams, running etc. And then anything more than 25 is frankly dangerous
I think the greatest fun is beeing fit. The rare occasions were that was the case with me I felt like I rode an ebike but a light and nimble one without a limiter. Regarding the limited speed on ebikes I think the biggest difference would be for urban commuting. That would be handy because even a person of average fitness exceeds the 25kph pretty easy in this environment.
Pros and cons of e-bike and analogue bikes.
I think the current limit is a bit low. For me upping it to 20mph makes sense.
However when you are out riding off road on bridle ways and gravel tracks just be mindful of walkers , horses etc.
Once you get accidents happening the regulators will start clamping down on e-bike riders
I would use m emtb more as a commuter bike if the were capable of 30mph rather than the 20mph it is now. I would use it for many short runs to the store, meetings and such rather than the car.
Speed is one thing ,as an old git with arthritis in my legs pedling is a problem and 250 watt bikes are pretty well useless, however a 500 watt makes a huge difference, when in France I've used a 500 watt bike rented from a station site. the difference is chalk and cheese.
If it wont go to 32km/h i have to derestrict my bike, because 25km/h is really just too slow. Is there a way to get US version software on european motors?
Sure there's, but it's illegal.
25 kmh is way to slow here in USA it’s 20 mph and even then in some areas I have people on regular pass me like I’m standing still. I’m almost as fast on my regular bike as I am on my trek rail only difference is on ebike I can go longer distances easier. Speed should be raised to 32.
Much as I love your videos and realise this was a bit of fun, I do think the point that many of us make about 25kph being to slow is being missed yet again. As a 63 y/o and lardy mtb rider I don't have the luxury of mutiple bikes to hand when out on a ride. 25kph for the most part is perfectly adequate for me on the trails and single track (though understand those that need the boost for jumps) It's more the general riding around and on tarmac that it becomes not only a bined but also dangerous to be mixed with traffic (even in urban areas restrict to 30kph (20mph). One of the whole things about ebikes is the levelling up for those overweight & less fit so that everyone can stay together. The safety aspect on the roads should be the focus and the lobbying point. This is repeated on every ebike forum.
32 kph makes more sense for regular cyclists as that's the speed most of us tend to cruise at when riding normal bikes on flat terrain. Having that be a bit easier makes sense. Having it be easier at a speed that's already easy doesn't really make sense and makes the ebike less useful.
I’m in Canada I use a bafang ultra on my hard tail 60kph I use a m600 on my emtb at 45 kph if your in traffic it safer to be able to keep up as long as your not an idiot
As a keen mtb rider and cyclist and ex motocross rider I can only say this , if you want a fast off road experience then consider motocross riding, the power to weight ratio and braking force on these E mtbs is absolutely fucking dangerous, the speed restricters on these mtbs are put in place for a reason , to keep you safe , I used a friends cube full suss E-bike for a week last year , while I agree , they are fun to ride, these bikes cannot stop like a motorcycle, and the speed some of these e-bikes can reach is on parr with a motorcycle, I can see why the Yorkshire air ambulance is always busy attending ebike accidents, in my opinion e-bikes that are derestricted or can go faster than 20mph should be treated as a motorcycle, it’s only fair
My only e-bike is Tern GSD so taking from the point of view of someone using a bike on the road and cycle paths. My perspective is that it is best left where it is because it allows e-bikes to mix well with other bikes on the cycle paths.
USA rider here, Haibike Full FatSix that I derestricted with a PearTune chip..... The Euro restriction IS silly. But..... be aware that once you get above 15mph, the battery economy drops like a brick as your aero profile acts as a wind brake. I pedal in all road and trail conditions and my game is not speed, but battery mileage per full charge. So.......why did I desrestrict my Yamaha PW? Getting caught in some severe thunderstorms while oh-so-close to home and that 20 mph restriction was holding me back. Normally, I keep the PearTune off as I average about 13mph on most rides at water-level pedaling. In the end, whether restricted or not, it's still a chore for the typical bicyclist to ride at a steady 15-16 plus mph......
ive a creo gravel e bike ,no de restricted, bought because i was diagnosed with a heart condition, i only switch the motor on going up hill ,and sometimes when against a headwind , so whats the problem if your fit and healthy ? you can get a workout when the motor stops or use it when tired or climbing
As a commuter, plus my bags i m allways after the cut pushing hard (26 km/h). My yahama motor has a lot off drag after the cut, i tested a bosh, it was easier after the cut, could handle 27/28 km/h on the flat. Non assist bikers go easily over 30/32 km/h on the flat. I hope a new limit to 30km/h will come, but i’m dreaming.
I’ll never understand what’s the difference between going 32 km/h or more on human power alone or with the assistance of an electric motor. Speed is equal, so what’s the point? We’re being eaten by stupid laws made by people who doesn’t even know what a rear derailleur is 🤦🏻
I'm commenting at the beginning of the video, so feel free to tell me if this gets addressed later.
My issue with it being 25kmh instead of 32 is the commute, it's actually safer for me to move to turning across traffic to turn right if I can match the cars speed, or come a little closer to it.
The greater difference in speed the higher the chance I'll be seriously injured by a car when trying to merge or go around a roundabout.
By all means go faster, but make sure the vehicle has insurance and a registration.
My bike is derestricted and it's an absolute godsend on flat roads between trails or hills. I very rarely go above 20mph though so it would be a very good fit-all cutoff speed for ebikes I think
What is the top speed on one of these bikes that has been de restricted?
@@bassw1758most of the time between 25 and 30mph. For the cheaper ebikes they won't go faster than 20mph even derestricted.
@@bassw1758 it's derestricted - no restriction at all
@@bassw1758 On a flat road with proper mtb tyres, you'd still struggle to to hit 30mph, but road bikes are allowed to and can do double that with a fraction of the ability to stop...
@@jonathan9380 tys it is - The gearing + cadency - In my case it is ca 40 kph maks. I like travel with 30-35 kph as compromise between effort - baterry range.
On longer distances very often go much slower to save battery - assistance off when possible.
I'm from the Netherlands and over here there are a lot of bikes on the road, of which a lot are ebikes. I almost never see an electric mountainbike on the road here,
maybe there could be another law specifically for electric road race and mountainbikes but as it is there's a huge amount of people for which I deem the 25 km/h limit way too high.
Traffic planner student here. These laws are made for security in inner city traffic, not for having fun in the bike park. People doing 15 km/h on their push bike don't want to share their narrow bike path with people doing 32 km/h, while there are lots of gray haired beginner cyclists dying in the woods because of these overpowered bikes.
European infrastructure and the cyclists just aren't ready for the fast bikes
In Australia ebike speed limit is 25kph . Do they want more cars off the road or not ?
On the trail it is definitely not to slow but if on any road it actually makes it more dangerous to not be able to accelerate to pull away from some situations.
Exactly this. Very dangerous on the road. If I couldn't de restrict, I would of definitely sent the bike back.
How is it different from normal bikes?
The reason I want 20mph isn’t for the trails, it’s so I’m not an obstacle to other traffic out on the road. This applies to my MTB and my other bikes. When towns increasingly have 20mph limits, why are cyclists restricted to 15mph? It just reinforces the view that cyclists are nuisances and in the way. If you want to tempt people out of their cars then e-bikes that can do 20mph make more sense
You're not restricted to 20! Pedal harder 😅
I have a emtb here in New Zealand with the 32 limiter. Although it rarely gets hit on the trails it’s great for biking to the trails and also biking to work.
The discussion is more relevant to those who use an e-bike to commute. The ability to keep up with cars (increasingly limited to 20mph in town)would negate the need for them to overtake making everyone safer and happier
That's definitely something to consider.
@@embn It's actually the main thing to consider, I wish you'd realise this. If you only have one bike and it's an electric mountain bike, the road/commuting use is where the 16MPH limit becomes a big safety issue. You only have to read through the comments here to see that's the priority for the vast majority of riders.
Thats a good idea to compare those, and the vid even started well by mentioning the avg speed you get on non ebikes. What is the reasonable average you are traveling usually?
My dream is to be able to ride with my partner and still be able to get some training done. That usually means up to 31 kmhs avg speed on an xc bike. Most ebikes with limitters feel like opening a parachute at above 25kmhs so your ride buddy will try to avoid hitting such speeds.
Ideally, the limit should be where your physical limit is, but that not feasible to achieve.
For me, the only time i really notice it is when i come up to a large jump and just need that little bit of extra speed to push up to the base, just when the motor cuts out on you. I dont have the same issue on an analogue bike, so why cant we have a few mph more?
The irony is that when i go to work in central Manchester, the amount of unrestricted, unassisted ebikes flying around delivering pizza's is ridiculous, and no one seems to be doing anything about it!
The Class 1 20mph limit in the US is perfect. I hit that all the time on the roads to the trail. On the trail I never get close to the limiter, except on occasional non-technical downhills where I'm not using the power assist anyway.
Your not allowed to AVG more than 250w but there is no rules for peak power output
Increasing the speed on commuter e-bike would help them in traffic which would help more folks get into riding.
I think it depends on your fitness and where you ride. Personally I think 17/18mph would be ideal. I hit the 15.5mph limiter too easily on the flat. Wouldn’t feel so bad if the overall weight was lower though.
What limiter?
ideal would be no limiter. 250W and battery life (range) and wieght is enough of limitation
@@chriskros8858 no limiter would be dangerous as it would be as faster than a moped(legal limited 45km/h in finland) which you need a licence for
@@tobotti330 limiter is not any protection for stronger riders or all descending. It os assistance speed limiter not speed limiter. E bike is not a moped it is hybrid so muscles of the rider are the engine too.
@@chriskros8858 so you suggest it assists a certain percentage of the riders input power
I have 2 ebikes - Giant Trance X E+ (20mph) and a former hardtail that has a mid-drive (tongsheng) conversion kit running hte open source firmware that allows whatever configuration you want.
I rarely hit the 20mph limit on the Giant Trance E+. On a charity ride with a lot of flat ground in between bits, I bumped it a lot but settled into a cadence/speed just below it. fyi that eats battery faster than normal.
If I used my conversion ebike with the firmware set to de-restricted assist, I simply run out of gear well before 30mph. I could re-gear with a massive front sprocket but then it wouldn't work on hills.
9:47 did you miss the key part where the limiter is either 25kph OR 250W, whichever happens sooner? So up a steep climb you'll not sustain 25kph for long, unless your legs can deliver the gap in power between 250W and what you put through the wheels...
You are right. The US limit at 32-33km/h is more realistic for flat terrain. I changed it on my emtb. It didn’t affect ascents and descents but it is more comfortable in a normal ride. Let’s change the laws!!
I had my bike in the past deregulated purely for bike parks. That extra boost made a big difference to have speed to clear some jumps.
I have 2 E-MTBs.
A 15mph Haibike Nduro & a 30mph 750w On One Codeine I converted.
Offroad the Haibike is annoying when you hit the limiter on swoopy, pedally descents. When the power cuts out you're left trying to pedal an unresponsive tank. Then the speed drops & the motor cuts back in. Then you hit the limit and it cuts out.....and so on. It's also rubbish if you pedal for speed into a jump and the power stops.
The On One doesn't suffer from this and is also a joy to ride in traffic where you can keep up with the cars at 30mph.
Probably not going to happen as the limit on assistance is not only for mountain bikes, but is designed to cover all types of ebike ridden by all types of people not all of whom will be as capable or responsible at speed. It always comes down to the lowest common denominator. But, as they say in the peleton, if you want to go faster, push harder!
My e bike does 37mph 1000 watt 52 volt with a 40 amp controller
Very average mtber here, just bought emtb, 200kms done. Did NOT think 25kmph would be an issue (never had a clue what speed i go),
bike is used exclusively on trails.
25kmph on climbs/fire-roads absolutely fine. no complaints, in fact it fantastic!!
25kmph going downhill...90% of the time is fine, 10% of the time, bummer
the issue is on fast flowy sections with a build up of speed leading onto a rise over a feature or a jump
on my old bike i could build up the speed and maintain most or all of it up to feature at the top
with the ebike- i'm hitting 35 going down (feels as fast as my non-ebike) but i loose SO MUCH going up to the top that i'm hitting the rise too slow, max 25 where i should be at 30+
32kmph would be pretty sweet for me.
what i really dont like is how hard motor manufacturers make it to de-restrict.
the highest speed allowed on a motorway here is 120kmph.
i'm not aware of any private car that is limited to this... i dont see why the manufacturers feel the need to police this limit, thats up to the law surely.
also, have seen a few of theese vids that seem to suggest 25 is fine if you adapt your technique or some other bs like that. i dont know whose pocket that message is coming from,
but I'm confident if the law changed 95% of owners would be upgrading their firmware to the higher limit.
25kmph is deffo not enough, 32 is more reasonable.
Emtb is still worth it, even with the low speed limit, but i would have had 2nd thoughts. if i ever buy another one, i'll be sure that the motor can be easily unlocked, so wont be another Shimano!!
For me it's not a getting places quickly thing, it's a traffic safety thing. Lots of 30 kph streets around here, and with a 25 kph bike you're just barely slow enough to be viewed as an obstacle to drivers, instead of being able to keep up with traffic. Though that said there would probably still be a bunch of complete jackass drivers that would still overtake you at 45 for going 32 in a 30 simply because you're on a bicycle.
There’s no probably about it. I have cars overtake me every day when I’m going ~30 kph and approaching a queue of stationary traffic. I of course am about to wiz down the inside, or possibly the outside… if I hadn’t just been blocked by some utter twit. I often wonder what they think when I immediately re-pass them?
Definitely need this in Australia, would be a nice feature when riding to the trail head along the roads, but I don't feel I need it on the trails as your usually flyen downhill, and I've got no interest in chipping the unit especially with the Bosch unit.
When riding into a big jump there is nothing worse than hitting the limiter, it's really off putting as it changes the pedal stroke. It's also occasionally a bit too slow on the decents too. But that's only on some flow tracks.
I am 48 years old, got an E-BIKE which was registered to 20mph. Being curious I unlocked the speedometer. Big mistake. I hit some fine gravel and the whole bike ended up going sideways before throwing me. Used the side of my face and bare hands to meet the road. Was in bits for weeks after. So reinstalled the 20k limiter and it's fine at that. Still picking up great speed going on any downhill slope, no matter how small
Well we have speed pedelecs too. The issue is that those are regulated way too heavily which causes the prices to be about 4-5 times as much as they should be.
I'm in Canada with 32km/h limit and I find in Eco on flat off road surface I'm going 27 - 29, which is perfect, if I use anything above Eco then I find I go past the limiter, I Usually climb in Eco also and would seldom go over 25KM/h
People think 250w is max power by law it has never been it's continuous power output
I regularly beat my e-bike friends on flat transfers even riding my 17 kg enduro bike. Another problem with the 25 km/h limit is frequently being right on the limit when trying to get up to speed being on cranks before the jump - that sudden lost of power right before setting up for the jump is just annoying.
It's very rare that you see a legal e bike on the road. Near me all the kids ride surrons wearing ski masks and they over take all the cars.
I live in a very hilly area. I personally would prefer a 300w motor rather than 250w over a change in max speed. Some of the hills are still a struggle in really low gears, especially if I'm fully loaded up doing a bikepacking trip or something.
Having said that, in town, the safest speed in traffic is the same speed as the other traffic. I think a bump to 20mph has an argument for being safer than 15mph. Less chance of a collision due to overtaking, Being able to keep up with other traffic, makes for easier maneuvering, and the number of cars going past you is less meaning there are fewer opportunities for a collision.
The first thing i did when i got my ebike was to de-restrict it. Reason being is i treat it like a high end sports car. I feel i should be able to choose when to use the power to its full potential; right place right time type of thinking. I’d like to believe 99% of users are relatively responsible enough to know when to be fast and when to slow the hell down.
If an EBike can’t keep up with a normal bike in normal average riding conditions then what is the point of investing all that money?
I’m from Australia and the trails where I live are mostly flat and pretty open. I can’t do any of the jumps at 25km/h. Some of the trails you spend the majority of it on 25km/h stuck on the limiter. I raised it to 30.5km/h and the extra 5km/h makes so much difference. I still hit the limiter sometimes but it’s pretty short and doesn’t bother me. I love the seating position of my ebike and the extra traction I get from the weight, I don’t get so tired and my enjoyment lasts much longer. It’s awesome, but not at 25km/h. On some tracks, Im faster on my conventional bike. In this case The 25km/h doesn’t make sense to me at all. While we’re at it, why no spare battery in competition? That doesn’t make sense either?
32kmhr all the way, I hate the feeling of drag on fast runs when this happens it ruins the experience. Can’t EMBN start a govt petition. There must be enough subscribers here to get 100k signatures.
25kmh in Australia, 32kmh is much better. People would be less inclined to derestrict their bikes.
🇦🇺👍same
Personally I have never had a problem with 25Km/h here in Australia (probably to do with my lack of skills at this point) and I have never really noticed when the limiter comes in on my Levo. I don't ride big jumps but I Defiantly understand why you would be unsettled hitting the limiter just before you hit a jump.
I have ridden an e-bike that had been tweaked to 30Km/h, Quicker up hills, the same down hill, and overall more battery consumption by about 10%
I had problem because when achieving 23kph system decreases assistance level and stop working when 25. Going on heavy eMTB-bike you can feel big resistance without assistance so you can not pedal too long than you go slower and assistance is turning on. This 25 speed is quite small so again turn off then again turn -on - Such situation makes me nervous - electronics also do not like such kind of working - for me it is unacceptable. My friend had to change engine because it got damaged - I think continous tur on/off could be the reason
My e-bike has the same engine but is now spoiled - it means limiter do not work so it is much nicer ride and world does not know that my bike is going 27 kph and engine works. All are happy.
Great clip guys,, this subject is constantly questioned, I have already signed the partition that was doing the rounds a while ago. 32 kph is 19.8 mph which I think is a realistic speed for the flat, this doesn't mean you ride constantly at this speed but it's nice to be able to use a £9000 bike with a bosch motor or one of the other powered bikes should you wish,, My car has a top speed of 145mph but doesn't mean I drive at these speeds.
Pro Gravel riders doing a full gas effort on the fastest courses average 32kmh. I find it hard to believe you would routinely ride that quickly on mtb.
Might sound a silly question but will i need to buy a new motor/bike if the limit is raised. Or can the bike shop reprogramme older units??🤔
I think it's fine, also the higher the limit the more battery you will end up using as you will be in the assist zone even longer.
25kph is to slow on any ebike, especially when you consder you get over taken by a non ebike very easily.
Yeah, I never understood the restriction. I did this test with a mate and after the initial acceleration, once the motor turns off, a normal bike just breezes past an e-bike.
I think the USA limit of 20mph would be more than enough for most folks. I do go over the 15mph limit quite often even at a bike park but more often than not if I'm going faster than that I've got more than enough gravity assistance! Lol. The only time the limit becomes an issue is on a trail ride and I'm riding with my mate who is very fit and will sit over 15mph on single-track etc.
If for mountain bike riding, Yes, but riding the streets torque and speed prevents problems with traffic.
@@quantumfx2677 a road bike would still be faster than a unrestricted E-mtb on the road
Great video. Thanks for the amazing work you do. The limit seems good on the Trek Fuel Exe here in the USA. Had a Levo 2019 expert and could feel the limit sometimes but very seldom and only on a flat road, don’t seem to ever on the Trek so is there a reason for that? I think it’s the TQ motor that makes the speed limiter less noticeable, right?
Limiter is fine. At least on E-MTBs. Because the gearing on them is such, that you can't really pedal comfortably much faster then 25kph anyway (unless you got hamster-legs). On my Cube Reaction Hybrid, it starts to run out of gears at about 30kph. And while the rear cassette has 11 gears, for normal city riding I spend most of the time in the highest 4, and on any kind of serious straight, highest 2.
Bottom line, it's not just about de-restricting a bike. You'd need to get a bigger front chainring to lengthen the gears as a whole, too. And on a mid-drive ebike, the front chainring is part of the motor, so that's a big hassle (and expensive) to replace.
E-MTBs are geared for, surprisingly enough - heavy climbing on mountain trails. Not setting speed records on the straight. So while I thought about de-restricting mine, after a month of riding now, I don't see the point. The gearing simply isn't set up to go fast on the straight. On a E-gravel bike or road bike, with their longer gears, is a different story, of course. If I had a nice big front chainring that could get me up to those kinds of speeds without my legs spinning out, I'd do it in a heartbeat. But as it is - not worth it.
I'm not against the increase at all however I always average about 20mph on the road (on the flat) and I don't particularly feel the drag as the assist ends. I also think it keeps me fitter. I have a 1250cc adventure bike for real speed 😉
In my experience with a 32km/h Giant, the only time I ever go faster than the assistance, I'm on the road (with 50km/h to 70km/h cars) riding to and from the trails. My average off-road speed is closer to 15km/h. It seems like the 25km/h limit was solely based on "vibes" rather than any actual real-world data.
Thank you. If raised to 32 kph it would fit perfectly to the german city limit of 30 kph. Would like to, yes!
I may of told my Shimano motor is was American and was driving 26 inch wheels.
This got rid of the annoying custard peddling that often seemed to occur in jump transitions.
With so many roads reducing to a 20mph limit in the UK it makes even more sense now to increase the ebike restriction to match it.
no, it doesn't
As an ebike commuter in the United States, I can attest that 28 MPH, let alone 25 km/h, is too slow.