I keep getting a lot of the same comments so let me clarify a couple things: 1.) I pointed out the "kiwi" thing is because they threatened to turn him into a smoothie, so it sounds like a double entendre. Or at least it does to someone like me who didn't know about that nickname prior to this episode. 2.) I didn't talk about the Jojo references in "Clothes Don't Make the Turtle" because uh. I forgot to write it in. I meant to. lmao Sorry. 3.) 15:43 - I made a mistake, this is actually a reference to Bowie's album _after_ Ziggy Stardust: _Aladdin Sane._ My bad! Not mad or anything, just wanted to clear that up! Thanks for watching and I hope you have a lovely day! ❤🌈🐢
I'm a kiwi and yes it's very common for us (and I thought others?) to call ourselves kiwis lol. I've heard it started from WW2 where ally soldiers would nickname the nzer soldiers "kiwis" bc of the native bird. it's easier to say than "new zealander" ig
@@AnEmu404 I know you're likely joking, but absolutely *do* watch Jojo. It's not only possibly the campiest anime ever but has genuinely well written and entertaining characters with a creative and fun power system to boot.
@@DOCTOR.DEADHEAD I’m only half joking! I watched the first episode of the second season with my brother, who insisted we skip the fist season haha. We’re currently watching code geass tho so I’ll have to wait until after. I’ve seen the one scene of the guy who turns into paper and pulls a gun and it had me stitches lmao. Now, if only he’d watch rottmnt with me…
Just because you say slay doesn't make you gay🤷🏿♂️. And leo is what we call in mexico "un fresa" which its kinda like trying to act of a higher economical class when you are not or jsut trying to be bettter then everyone and to put it simple being a "white bitch" but not in a gay way. And cassie was not gay she had a son🤷🏿♂️ which is the regural casie John's from the future (watch the movie). But anyway maybe they put some "gay" sauce here and there it was a good show. To bad it was more fart jokes and slapstick comedy than the action we got on the last episodes and the Netflix movie 🎬 was awesome.
Another instance is April with her "tries to be normal, is a weirdo magnet" thing. She's an outcast from her own society and found comfort and family with other outcasts, and she eventually accepts that. (Also Leo and Donnie trying to help protect her from weirdness in Operation Normal, rather than argue she's fine with them, they support her). There is also the way Rise plays with gender in general. The boys, all of them, are very emotional (yes Donnie too, occasionally) and expressive. Raph is a tank and bruiser at 15, and is The Softie. And no one makes fun of him for it. He likes hugging his brothers/family, has stuffed animals, likes cute things. And he's allowed to! Leo is allowed (at times unwillingly) to be Leo, in all his glorious gayness. These are four teenage boys raised by an old action star and yet there is no toxic masculinity to be found. And again, April is a bruiser too, but no one would deny her feminity either.
In Lair Games Leo literally has a rainbow painted on the wall behind him in his mockumentary thing. I never see anyone mention it and I laughed out loud when you said "literally written on the wall" because in this episode, it is!
ARE YOU KIDDING ME I DIDNT EVEN NOTICE THAT. the one i picked for that line is donnie sitting in front of the bisexual flag but glad to know literally slapping it up on the wall was a consistent theme lmao
And let’s not forget that in the snow day episode Raph says that they should have a flag that “represents all of them” or something along those lines for their snowman to hold and it is literally the rainbow pride flag, they could’ve switched up the color order but they didn’t, they knew what they were doing
And he’s just??? Going on about equality and representing all of them and like. I REFUSE to believe that someone wrote that and DIDNT see the OBVIOUS GAY IMPLICATIONS
Y'all do realize that rainbows were a thing before it became pride representation right? Ever stop to think they used it because the turtles themselves are color coded and wear masks to indicate that?
Actual New Zealander here, and yes we do call ourselves Kiwis, since that is our native bird. But using it as a way of calling Hypno gay is a great interpretation for those that didn't know about our national nickname
A little something about Leo in Hidden City Job is that he is dressed like Apollo and, when pretending to be a statue, poses similarly to a statue of Dionysus. Both of these greek gods had male lovers and Apollo especially is a bit of a queer icon. Leo is wearing a laurel wreath crown which is one of, if not the most seen items in depictions of Apollo. Apollo is also pretty connected with the color gold as he is literally the god of sun and light. Coincidence? Perhaps. But I am CLINGING on the possibility that it isn't a coincidence.
Good eye! I was wondering if the statue disguise had a significance but I'm not super knowledgable on Greek myth, so this is really insightful! Thanks for watching!
I love Leo's queerness and I don't think I'd ever be wanting it outright stated. The brothers know each other, they don't feel the need to be anyone other than themselves. It's like Donnie and his neurodivergancy, he doesn't need to state in the show at all because his brothers would already know. Leo wouldn't have to completely announce his queerness to his family because they do know him. There may have been a moment when they were kids where Leo had a crush on a guy and the others have known him from there. It ultimately feel like a deep bond between the brothers and I can really appreciate that. These brothers do seem to love each other unconditionally.
I agree, however it’d be nice if it was just… a little more overt? Like, if we ARENT all collectively reading too far into this, I’d like to see at least something that’s a little more solid. With ND characters, it suffices to not have it be outright stated because it’s super easy to really feel SEEN. In the way characters act and talk, it’s like, most of what ND rep IS. So Donnie be in autistic and it not being said out loud works great because autistic people feel seen regardless or not it’s solidified in the show. And the same thing applies to Leo, in a way, but the thing is that queer culture is based so much off this, “plausible deniability”, that being queer has become more and more about having NO deniability. About being out and proud, or at least something overt that you can’t explain away. Idk man I just want Leo to wear a pride pin lol And maybe this is just me not being able to be content with subtlety, but also I think we deserve actual text rather than subtext. But really, a LOT of this is personal preference, I like it when queer characters are like queer people I know irl: with a shitty sense of humour that involves a lot of ironic homophobia and making things gay for no reason. But I also get why people like feeling more seen in a more quiet way. That’s totally cool too, but I also think there’s a bar we should reach for. JESUS I am rambling. Adhd demon got me good this time lmao.
@@Vivigreeny25 I mean, it is a bit the same with ND, at least to my knowledge and as someone who isn't ND, they deserve characters that are able to say who they are rather then the deniability divergent people have. Like how at least on TikTok people are happy that characters like Wednesday are idealised but are almost ignored that they are ND and it doesn't change how people treat ND people. But I'm really not one to talk on this subject. Also honestly to each their own. To me this is a funny little cartoon with turtles that has a lot of action and family bonding which is better than any of the other turtles I've seen. My comment was rather stating they're very caring brothers and they do know and care about each other unlike in some other versions. The problem with 'if Leo came out' he couldn't have a sticker or a pin, that's sort of Mikey's thing when it comes to character designs. If it was something on a wall, it would be deniability, if he had a whole coming out moment (which honestly, who's not to say he already has that was offscreen) then it would either be deemed too much. So maybe a good middle ground would be confirmed art from an artist that worked on the show with Leo having something on him that would show his queer identity.
@@aquariusquartz6199 Yeah actually, that last bit is exactly what I’m hoping for. I guess I just… dislike how easy it is to deny. Im totally fine with what we have, I just think that if the intention IS for Leo to be queer, we deserve *some* sort of confirmation. But I do want to point out I’m really happy that people can enjoy the way things are now, I’m just… more tired? Salty??? Tired, salty and bisexual let’s go with that. Anyways point is, sorry for countering like that for no real reason. I hope you continue to enjoy the little turtles guys. :)
@@Vivigreeny25 We can only hope we can get that. And if not, headcanons and fanart are always amazing and personally feeds my soul. I think I'm happy; even if things are slow, we do have shows now that have gay couples, trans characters who are open in who they are and so forth that isn't only just 1 confirmed tweet. LGBTQ+ has come a long way and that alone is enough for me. I also hope you continue to enjoy the little turtle dudes and find all the queer media that can make you happy!
17:33 I would like to add something this if you don't mind. I think a little detail that is VERY important to note in this scene is his eyes. The human pupil is known to expand up to 70% when looking at something/someone they consider to be attractive. Look at his pupils here, they noticeably enlarge. Obviously it's a bit difficult to determine how much this applies to Leo since he's obviously not entirely human, however, that fact alone does not entirely dismiss this. Anthropomorphism is the attribution of human-like features to a non-human subject, and is something often used to help audiences connect with fictional characters. The boys in Rise are *very* anthro, so I don't think it's too much of a stretch to believe that Leo's eyes getting bigger here was meant to convey some sort of attraction.
Oh also since it's technically a kids show they'd probably go a little more overt with the anthropomorphic stuff to make it more accessible for the younger audience, so...👀
A fun fact I heard about his specific species of turtle, (Red-eared Slider turtle) is that they rub faces on other turtles to flirt, and while he was being floated away with the dude after being saved, he was rubbing his cheek on the handsome dude. (that I somehow forgot the name of..) (Side note: Please don't take this as me "shipping" or implying them to be attracted to *each other,* just about Leo's queer attraction to the other dudes appearance specifically. Otherwise that'd be really gross.)
The Leo segment hit me hard, because I absolutely do try to exude confidence and bravado as a defense against Being In High School (which is, as you might know, not the most queer friendly place) but I am also just. Secretly terrified sometimes, especially when I'm interacting with new people. ALSO, on a lighter note, the "accidental" implication that Leo's trans by having his adult self be the same color as his teen self, and by having him be so big (red eared slider males get darker as a part of turtle puberty + the female sliders are bigger than the males) and like!! Hell yeah!!! Trans gay little Leo is my everything
Agreed, I love that perspective on Leo! I didn't include it here mostly because I would just spend a loooong time contradicting myself and going back and forth on why it may or may not be intentional but it's something I still think about fondly and often! 💙🐢
Yo! I literally read a fic with this in mind from the author! It's a Rise Leosagi one too! It's on a hiatus I think ("When I Said I'm Asexual This Is Not What I Meant!" on AO3)
CAN I JUST SAY: HUGINN AND MUNNIN! THE GARGOYLES! Those two, every interaction I see them in it feels like they're husbands. The way they gawk at each other, spend time together, encourage one another, it's just adorable and totally feels like they're together. Just me soaking in every detail of them as possible. Actually? Y'know what? I'm totally gonna make a clips video of these two dorks!
Their names sound like SNUFKIN AND MOOMIN from Moomin valley, which the gay community had decided their gay coeded. Wether that's head cannon we can never know. I find it funny that there names are so similar. Other similarity being there designs , A round one and a pointy one.
A fun fact I heard about Leo's specific species of turtle, (Red-eared Slider turtle) is that they rub faces on other turtles to flirt, and while he was being floated away with that dude after being saved, he was rubbing his cheek on him. (I apologize for forgetting the "handsome" guy's name..) Side note: Please don't take this as me "shipping" or implying that they are BOTH attracted to *each other,* just about Leo's queer attraction to the other dude(s)/dudes appearance specifically. Otherwise that'd be really gross.
@@cristhianmlr What??? Sexuality and romance are two separate things… bisexual is a sexual orientation, so is asexual. You can be asexual and still want to be in a loving romantic relationship.
#SaveRiseTMNT I'm from pretty conservative family, in conservative country, and for first time Western "gay" theme start to get into my everyday life i was confused, but with time going i understand that gay its not only about sex, it's about lifestyle, adoption and self-knowledge. Back then i felt like gay it's something different, not normal people, and always need to be known. Now i think that's part of our society, part of our world acceptance. I'm heterosexual, and i accept world there i live.
@@malaksafa4074 I'm 100% sure they meant that being gay doesn't mean just sex, it means being able to live your lifestyle while gay (for example, being in a queer couple without having to hide it) and with adoption and self-knowledge thrown in, I am sure that they mean it in that way. They are saying that they understand now that it's part of living, not just a sex thing. I'm sorry if I sounded annoyed, but it makes no sense to only grab that tiny part of their heartfelt comment where they simply explained their new understanding of being queer. Again, sorry if I sound annoyed, I just wanted to try and explain :)
If Rise comes back and brings in Usagi, I have a feeling the gayness will be cranked to an 11. Admittedly, the (genuine) cute fanarts have got me on board with this ship. Leo will be the Amity to Usagi's Luz, if you get me.
@@AdbotsStuff no, lol. do you guys remember "the ep where usagi meditated so hard he accidentally sent himself on a literal acid trip in the middle of a battle"?? he is as goofy as Leo but Leo is a plan dude and he knows when to get serious (unlike pure goofball usagi) so..
Honestly I think what I really like about it, is that it's there but also not fully expressed. Since essentially the show is technically targeted for "kids" they don't want to outright say it. Kinda like what they did with Korrasami, it became canon but they revealed it in a subtle way and the only way people found out was digging between the lines, the comics and the creator's tweet online, which is something a lot of children didn't have access to or find. And really I think that's the best way to go at times And that's something I can appreciate about Rise, especially in terms of Leo, they're not treating him as "the gay character" but rather a character who "just happens to be gay". (at least by speculation). That's mostly stacked behind all his other qualities as a character outside of his potential sexual orientation. Because realistically that's how the LGBTQ community is, being gay or queer isn't their personality. It just happens to be a part of them outside of their depth of character. And to me, thats the perfect way to represent a LGBTQ character but my god, if we ever get a season three, Leo needs to get a boyfriend. haha Preferably Usagi 🤣
As a 33 Year old Cis Blac dude who has loved TMNT since the early 90's, I find Rise's community to be so refreshingly inclusive. Completely different than those other TMNT fanboy communities
13:49 the poses Donnie does here are Jojo poses. JJBA is widely acclaimed to be a very camp anime with lots of themes of queerness in it's story and portrayals of queer masculinity through its outrageously over the top characters. Didn't ever think I'd be able to say that 'Donatello, the ninja turtle, is a Jojo's fan' but there's a first time for everything I guess
I wish this show had a fan base like this when it was airing. Maybe we could have gotten more seasons. I’m happy it’s finally getting the recognition it deserves, but as a day 1 fan of the show, I can’t help but be a little bitter that everyone is singing it’s praises now instead of then.
I admit that I definitely slept on this show, and I mentioned in my first video on this channel how I'm just a little bitter about the bad faith reviews it received when it first aired. But I guess the recognition is better late than never. The Rise team knows that what they made was good, and others are starting to recognize it too. With enough noise making, maybe we can even get Nickelodeon to pick the show back up for another season or movie!
I sadly didn't know it existed until some time in the past year when I watched an Owl House video and then got recommended an analysis video that person did on Donnie 😭 I love these gay little turtle boys, I want to see more episodic shenanigans
Yeah, I'm sorry I slept on this show when it aired too... because this is lowkey my favorite iteration of TMNT. I feel like the death knell for this show was that it came out immediately after 2012 ended. Not helping was that the first half of season 1 was admittedly a mixed bag, and the show took a while to find its footing. So people were essentially comparing the worst parts of Rise to the best parts of 2012, and it was just a downhill cycle from there. I personally thought Rise looked great, but the early writing didn't do enough to hook me, and I never really watched it until after the movie came out and people started going back and saying the show got way better with time. Hearing about autistic Donnie helped a lot too lol. Anyway, 2012 came out years after 2003's fanbase died down, so people were a lot more willing to give it a shot, and stores were more willing to stack up on merch (an overlooked point imo- stores did not seem all that eager to stock up on Rise merch when they still had a bunch of merch from the 2012 show they were selling, which could explain Rise's low toy sales.) I'm clinging onto the hope that since the movie did really well and the show is officially just on an indefinite hiatus (not cancelled) that Nickelodeon can bring it back and test the waters for a new season. Mutant Mayhem was good, but I'd take more Rise over more MM any day. The family dynamic in Rise is 👌👌👌 and I really loved what they were doing with Draxum, even if they were forced to rush his redemption arc
"Look at him! Look at the way he stands and sits! You can not look me in the eyes and say he's straight!" -A real statement made by my twin sister to our dad 😂
"To the everything about Leo" Honey I choked on my tea. Love this video! It's so clear you've done your research! Thank you for making this for the community :))
"There isn't really a right way to be queer, and It feels like Rise really gets that without having to say it" YES! YES!! YES!!!!! LITERALLY ALL OF THIS!!!! I think this is one of the main reasons why I love Rise and why it speaks to me on such a deep level! The Queer experience is more then just romantic relationships! And even though it's still important to have that kind of representation, and I do still like when they explore that specific part of it, I feel much more connected to a piece of media when it rather explores what is like to be queer! The feeling of being left and not meeting the expectations of the people around you, but the happiness that comes when you do find out that theirs people that will love you and accept you for who you are regardless of anything society things is "right". Because at the end of the day, love is love! And love comes in all sorts of way! Love for yourself, love for your friends, love for your passions, love of your family... and I think rise gets that SO perfectly it honestly makes me so so happy! Unconventional found family is the best!! And this gay little turtle show will always have a place in my heart because of that! 🐢🏳️🌈
The way I saw the LGBTQ representation on this show was more on the idea that anyone could be anything anytime. More specifically, that everyone was kind of fluid, and I think that was a good approach for a show that was intended for the new generation. A generation that is growing learning that gender is a spectrum and that sexual orientations may not be that well defined after all. From that perspective, not stating a character is specifically gay, is probably more powerful, because it emphasizes that no one really would need to fit into one category. Having said that, yeah, I think you identified all the gay things in the show. I am only on the fence with Draxum, but you may be right. I am gay, by the way.
I agree! While I definitely see the value in things like actually saying the word and how that's important to people, I think that not saying it can be just as powerful for the reason you mentioned. Especially since it's a kids show and kids will fluctuate as they discover themselves and build their identities. Thanks for watching!
Thank you for this video I love rise and I couldn't explain why it was so gay outside of the "it's the vibe" lmao. Also genius title and thumbnail I laughed so hard before actually watching the video 😂
Oh, my god. This video is absolutely fantastic. TMNT as a franchise was always so different from everything else. As stated, it's a story about mutant teenage turtles obsessed with pizza who are taught the art of ninjutsu by a mutated rat. By media standards, it shouldn't work- _but it does really well._ And that's also what makes it appealing to queer audiences. Rise inadvertently took that aspect of it and multiplied it by 100. More vibrant colours (as opposing to 2012 TMNT, which had a very somber, dark colour scheme throughout the series), smooth and jumpy animation and the 'controversial' change of personality (and design) of the turtles. I think all of these choices are amazing and fit perfectly for the narrative of the TMNT universe. Queerness is represented in the show so naturally, that people who aren't part of the community barely notice it and more often than not, are also the main critics of the reboot (cowards). But to us, it's more than entertaining and fun to watch. It feels _safe._ And that's what queer representation is supposed to do in media. Make you feel safe. And ROTTMNT achieves this not by explicitly showing us or telling us that its characters are queer or putting them in any relationships, but by just letting them be themselves and giving them a safe environment to be so! This goes for the neurodivergent representation they have going on too. Leo is never shown to be romantically attracted to anyone (only that he's aesthetically attracted to Don Suave), but you can tell by his personality and the way he expresses himself that he's proud of who he is and not afraid to show it to the world, which is why we think of him as the gay icon he is. He represents queerness as _a way to be,_ not just a way to be in a relationship. And I think that is so important and cool. Rise Leo is definitely my favourite iteration of him (although he's equally as non-straight in any other universe - wink wink, Usagi). And same with Donnie and autistic representation. It's never blatantly stated, but lots of traits in his character put him on the autistic spectrum, and that aspect of him is respected and understood by his family and friends. That is just so beautiful. Regardless, thank you so much for putting this video together. Rise deserves infinitely more love than it already gets, and videos like this make me appreciate it even more.
This is beautifully said and I fully agree. Showing Leo just being allowed to be himself and existing proudly is so important, especially for a kids show. Queerness isn't just about relationships. Thanks for watching!
I actually adore Rise for making everyone just act naturally about everything. I think it's exactly what makes them so lovable. You don't think of Donnie being autistic as terrible. You think it's cute or quirky. And you love how they all except it. It makes you feel safe. And Leo being gay or not. I wouldn't have any doubt either way and I love it. They all give you this - the family/friends you always wanted vibe. ❤️
you're so right! i never noticed some of this stuff before. now that i think about it, TMNT itself is such a campy, fun, and wacky concept it's no wonder how it (especially Rise) has so many LGBTQIA+ fans.
Touching on family dynamics and the relation to queerness, the "found family" trope is another one that is inherently queer-coded. Of course the boys and such are actually related, but with the adoption of outside characters as "being part of the family" and the whole ragtag vibe of them all, it really pushes this narrative forward. Probably why so many older queer people enjoy the show despite it being geared towards kids.
GAY FUN FACT OF TODAY: Hypno is actually voiced by Rhys Darby, who, for those not in the know, also played Captain Stede Bonnet, the gay as heck protagonist of Our Flag Means Death (aka the gay pirate show)
Oh my gosh, I loved this video so much! Queercoding is often only referred to as «fandom culture» and «overanalysing» on the internet, so seeing an actual analysis of this topic in the show I love, about the characters I relate to, feels so incredibly good. Thank you for this video, it actually made me so happy I had to stand up and walk around to calm down (/pos) during the watch, haha
I'm totally fine with being accused of over analyzing if my end cards were anything to go by! This topic shouldn't be considered a bad thing if it helps people connect and engage with media better. Stories and animation are art just like anything else and we should read into it and analyze it like art, imo.
I was having a meltdown about censoring queerness from children this evening (sometimes you can't deal with being vilified, so just let the anger flow) and honestly this video was really soothing. I sadly can't watch Rise where I live, but I fell in love with the series from all the compilations youtube keeps offering me. It's sad that this has to be subtext - though I don't think Rise needs to be explicit on it either (wholesome found family stories are very good) - yet if that's what it takes for there to be media I can relate to, I'll take it. At least the bigots won't be able to pick up on it and make a ruckus
Honestly, I originally wanted to watch Rise because it seemed interesting, more comedic than super plot heavy iterations/remakes like 2012, and because I saw multiple people talking about Donnie specifically. After watching it, I really couldn't help but clock Leo as exceptionally, flamboyantly, gay. All the Rise characters are Extra (TM), which to me makes them all seem/feel not exactly cis, hetero, neurotypical, take your pick. But despite that, Leo still stood out in that capacity. He seemed so campy and, in a weird way I can't quite explain, like a drag queen. The way he moved, posed, talked, his expressions, reactions, musicality to an extent, but also his insecurities all screamed "This boy is queer." to me. So I looked online, and lo and behold it wasn't an uncommon finding! I think one of the main reasons he comes off as gay, despite being subtle in most capacities (though prevalent) was because of his story and insecurities. He is insecure about his worth and capabilities, and this is further amped up by his lack of control over his portals; for a number of queer people (myself included), insecurity about our orientation, value to our family, and overall worth in the face of historical oppression and a lot of modern apathy are things that are very present in our lives, and not being inherently or stereotypically queer (having a same sex partner, dressing flamboyantly, loving and being good at theater, affinity to fashion, etc.) usually earns comments about how we aren't queer or are no longer queer. Leo is the self proclaimed face man, and is one of the most socially perceptive characters; one of the things queer people learn or are taught is to be perceptive and capable of clocking who is and isn't going to take our existence well, when to say or not say things to avoid persecution, and who is safe to trust with ourselves. Leo's theatricality and displayed superiority at times is used to mask his fears, insecurities, and the danger he feels himself in; falling back on theatricality and an over-the-top personalities is something not only do I do to confuse and shake my fears, but have seen done multiple times by queer friends and family. Leo is very likely coded queer or gay, but I think the reason we as an audience picked it up as easily and readily we did was because we could see ourselves in him. Unlike some shows where characters become fanon queer because of unintentional queer coding/intentional queer baiting relationships, Leo feels queer down to his very bones because he mimics a lot of us. Not everyone, and not in the details or particulars of specific orientations, but in the underlying events, moments, experiences, and feelings we all usually share. idk, this became an essay unintentionally, i just like watching the flamboyant gay turtle be himself and be accepted along with his def neurodivergent, possibly also queer, twin.
DUDE!!!!! This was so well put together! I've been so excited for this video since you started talking about it on twitter like a month ago it was worth the wait :D
Another bit of possible queercoding for Leo is the coloration of his markings. It's very common for male red-eared sliders to exhibit a color change as they mature, with the bright red and yellow no longer being visible, meanwhile the females generally keep the same coloration. Leo has visible red and yellow markings even as an adult in the movie, so one could see him as a trans man or transmasc.
i read a lot of the gay but as an aroace it sometimes goes over my head and it was extremely apparent at warren and hypno, even the tittle, it usually ends with x and y sitting on a tree K I S S I N G.
Personally, the episode I myself really started picking up on Leo’s fruitiness was Portal Jacked. I mean he literally says “I came out fine” and “remember, YOU’RE supposed to be the straight man” to Hueso. AND it’s paired with the gayest episode in the show (at least according to the wiki they’re episodes 17a and 17b). I’m like, oh, so it’s OBVIOUS obvious.
I've always thought rise was queer in the aspec (aro and ace) way,as someone who's aro themselves, seeing a piece of media that has no romance in it* yet feels so unapologetically queer is what makes rottmnt special to me. *aside from warren and hypno,that is,but even their relationship can be interpreted as a queerplatonic one,a type of relationship that originated within the aspec community (or,well,the term to describe that kind of relationship,since things don't come to exist the moment a label for them is created)
Everything about this video is great but 1:02 "the...everything...about Leo" has me dying every single time Edit: ok i also feel the need to stress that the amount of research that is put into this analysation is absolutely fundamental. This is like academic level of stating a fact and having the sources to back it up and it excited in such a casual way that it's so easy for the audience to follow
I think another reason as to why I noticed how "queer" the show is due to how open and campy the show is, especially in the action scenes. I think having characters the characters being more flamboyant in general really adds to all the camp and flair the show has. It's also really nice seeing the characters being open about certain parts of themselves and their interests (regardless of how it relates to their gender) :]
Every time I’m like, “idk am I overthinking this?” I think about that one scene in Snowday where they replace the Jupiter Jim flag with all their scarves in rainbow order, and Raph is talking about how “this flag represents all of us equally, standing together in equality :)” and I’m like, Raph is there anything you’d to like share with the class. Side note: Losing my mind over those tweets because like. What do you MEAN the “the overtones” and “this one” and “at least part of” LIKE HELLO???? You mean gay overtones??? You mean that this ISNT just a one time instance??? WHATS THE OTHER PART???? Edit: oh wait should I be tagging these in comments? #saverottmnt #unpauserottmnt
Great video! Rise will always hold a special place in my heart for its representation that feels personal to me, and the way that it handles that representation, really makes me feel seen, even if it wasn’t always intentional, I loved this analysis, ty for making great rise content as always!
I'm a gay man who really wants Elsa to have a girlfriend and 100% unironically believes that Raya is a lesbian, but I get sad when people say frozen is secretly a coming out story because the entire story of both films is build on trauma with Elsa having PTSD from almost killing her sister and Ana having CPTSD from being isolated in her childhood. I myself have CPTSD and really appreciate how well Elsa's powers visualize her feelings. The way they show how beautiful, liberating and amazing it feels when you get to be calm and just happy. And the way they show how much you can push away, scare and hurt others when the trigger thoughts come running back. Both movies are so beautiful at showing how people with PTSD and CPTSD can act and feel when they're afraid or calm and as a guy who've also lived the queer experience, i think it's sad to just overwrite that with a coming out story. But disney, please give my snow queen a girlfriend. I want that so badly!I'm a gay man who really wants Elsa to have a girlfriend and 100% unironically believes that Raya is a lesbian, but I get sad when people say frozen is secretly a coming out story because the entire story of both films is build on trauma with Elsa having PTSD from almost killing her sister and Ana having CPTSD from being isolated in her childhood. I myself have CPTSD and really appreciate how well Elsa's powers visualize her feelings. The way they show how beautiful, liberating and amazing it feels when you get to be calm and just happy. And the way they show how much you can push away, scare and hurt others when the trigger thoughts come running back. Both movies are so beautiful at showing how people with PTSD and CPTSD can act and feel when they're afraid or calm and as a guy who've also lived the queer experience, i think it's sad to just overwrite that with a coming out story. But disney, please give my snow queen a girlfriend. I want that so badly!
I fully agree with that, I do think Elsa's story is a really well done metaphor for trauma and internalizing emotions. Before it's a queer story, it's a story about a traumatized woman. I more brought up Elsa's story as a coming out story because often I find that the discussion around her story being queer coded doesn't actually talk about why people think that it's queer. Also just for the sake of discussing the "queer story fronting as something else" I wanted to use a story that I knew people would likely already know and was easy to digest. Great point though, Frozen is first and foremost a story about trauma, no denying! (Also yes give her a gf she deserves it!)
08:06 laughed a little at this. I've been living in New Zealand my whole life and I absolutely loved the representation Hypno gave the show because the only other times in media NZ is represented is in Moana which is about Pacifica culture in general and in NZ made movies like Boy and LOTR. And yes! we do call ourselves kiwis but not after the fruit. The kiwi bird is our symbol and it makes perfect sense to me but I can understand why others find it weird lol. There are a lot of kiwi and Maori jokes in this show which really comforted me even though I had to explain them to the people I was watching the show with! Hypno makes jokes about Wellington (capital of nz not the boots), compares explosions to our volcanoes and uses a bunch of Maori words and slang with Warren who I like the hc is learning Te Reo because of him :)) rewatch the show with this in mind and everything you dont understand that Hypno says is most likely something a nod to nz culture
Wow! That's really cool, I never knew all that stuff, I only knew his VA was from NZ! I only mentioned the fruit thing because the ransom note mentions turning him into a smoothie, which I thought maybe was a funny little way to nod to the nickname as well as call him a fruit. I didn't realize that he had so many references in his dialogue though, and I really like your headcanon about Warren, that's so cute. Thanks for watching and thanks for the info! 🌈🐢
I'm honestly super happy that there are more cartoons that have queer rep, whether it be heavily coded so the network doesn't body slam you or outright like in Dead End: Paranormal Park with it's transmale MC. ROTTMNT has always had the "vibe" of being queer but it's amazing to see you analyze and research the amount of effort the team put in to make sure the community caught it! Amazing work 💗
Amazing video as always!! :) I also think it's important to note Rise in contrast to the series that came directly before it when analysing its queerness. The 2012 series was notoriously a mixed bag when it came to its relationships, from The Love Triangle to the general grossness of what was going on with Leo and Karai (seriously, what was up with that?), and I think that heavily influenced Rise's "no romantic relationship" policy, for lack of a better term. This then obviously impacted how queer the show appeared, since there's no romances between any of the boys and a girl character in the show even hinted at. Regardless of whether the negative reception for the previous show's most well-known romantic pairings affected how Rise handled relationships or not, it's interesting to think about on a metatextual level. I do also think it's just a nice change of pace for Leo to finally be free of the weird romance curse he was afflicted with for so long, and a little bit funny how seemingly the only way to do that was to make him the most overtly gay character of them all.
The type of subtle representation for characters like Leo is quite possibly my favourite type of queer representation, as much as I adore shows with overt queerness and lgbt themes like the owl house or she-ra and as important as representation like that is, seeing a character who just happens to be queer is exponentially important. Not every queer person needs or even wants a romantic relationship (speaking as an Aromantic so its possible im biased) so showing characters like Leo who just happen to be queer really does help show that we aren’t just ‘the queer person’ but we’re normal people who have friends, family, a job, passions and interests that go outside of our sexual orientation or gender identity. At the end of the day we’re all just people and, while I do think exploring or even just confirming this part of Leo would be amazing, it really doesn’t need to be a plot point or spectacle, it can just be a part of who he is like it is for the rest of us. (Side note: (had trouble articulating this but I figured it out, both overt and sublet representation of minority groups are incredibly important but because so many stories that does include mentioned queerness make a point to make it a huge part of the character or in some cases their whole arc, I feel like representation that just is has become so important because it allows minority groups to just exist within media without their entire character being a spectacle or ‘learning experience’ for people not a part of those groups. Similar to the subtle representation of Donnie or Mikeys neurodivergence simply being there and not a spectacle for allistics to laugh at or ‘learn from’)
Me watching Leo move, talk, sit, gesticulate, and just generally EXIST: "Oh, there is absolutely no heterosexual explanation for that" But jokes aside, I literally learned more about queer-coding and history in this video than anywhere else, so thank you for that. Came for my turtle boys, stayed for the free lesson
GOSH I LOVE THESE VIDEOS!!! I'm always so excited when I see a new one come out! And I'm SO happy that this one is about Rises queer coding, something that not many people who talk about the show actually acknowledge (At least from what I've seen) I mean, Rise being queer is all over the fandom, but nobody talks about WHY it's all over the fandom. This video is so awesome and surprisingly educational, which always makes me happy! As someone who is very queer, Rises not so subtle coding always made me smile, and I'm so glad that it's being talked about by one of my new favorite content creators!
THAT'S SO SWEET THANK YOU!! I try to combine educational content where I can, especially since I know a lot of the Rise fandom are very young! I'm glad you enjoyed, thanks so much for watching!
The whole piercing on one of their ears to signal to other gay men is really funny to me, bc my dad (who’s very much a heterosexual) used to have a piercing in one of his ears to signal that he was deaf in that ear.
Fun fact: According to the wiki fandom, Hypno has a running gag of recalling several landmarks and cultural references to New Zealand, the home country for his voice actor, Rhys Darby
Such a great video! I loved your dive into queer history and culture too! I'm a sorta closeted bisexual guy, so it was really nice to learn some history! (tho it's not like public schools taught me much🙄) I'll definitely check this show out now, especially now that it might be cancelled. This show looks like it has some really great moments and heart poured into it, I hope it gets revived the third season it desperately deserves.
I always feel like TMNT kinda has a queer narrative baked into it, just by the relationship that the turtles have with the humans. They're forced to hide themselves and showing themselves either yields friends who want to help them, or people who want to hurt them. I wish more TMNT writers would realize this, but I will live with the idea in my head for now. Also, Leo's kinda gay in most versions even if it is more subtle. He and Usagi in the 03 series are very...y'know.
Tbh I feel like TMNT is gay just because the concept is so… ridiculous??? It’s CAMPY and that makes me look at it all like, “wow, teenage mutant ninja fruits??”. Also 2012 Leo falls into the same box because the boy had the BIGGEST crush on Captain Ryan I’m soRRY ITS NOT A MANCRUSH IT IS A NORMAL ASS GAY CRUSH LET HIM BE BISEXUAL PLS
@@mom40 Oh god ik it’s horrible HOWEVER it’s worth mentioning that I’m like, 99% convinced he had a crush on Captain Ryan. Like yeah yeah he thinks he’s cool because he Wow He’s Such A Great (space) Hero Look At How He Leads His Team but like. Idk it looked at least a LITTLE bit like a crush.
Really great video explaining why the show is gay instead of saying it's gay because it is. Leo part is my favorite part of the video because the glam rock part and the way you analyze the Suave part was totally new to me and I read a lot of theads and discussions on why Leo is gay 😅
I love how you start the video and provide background information because I completely forgot that this was about Rise and thought I was watching an insightful video about queerness within the movie industry. So when it came back to Rise, it was being smacked with a shoe. In a good way. Love your analysis, thank you for sharing this
This video is so good at describing not just Rise’s gay coding but the culture of it general. Honestly, it would be interesting if April ended up with Cassandra or become just besties instead. She could even end up with her future son from the movie. Who knows? Anyways, I didn’t really see a lot of characters as gay except for possibly Cassandra, Hypno, and Warren.
@@caitlinbrewer4843 Both sound like good theories but the first one sounds more realistic. Are these your theories or have other people suggested them?
I needed to rewatch this video as a break from working on my own video about the straight relationships in the 2012 show...I need to remember that there's gay TMNT content!
There are some other things that I have noticed in not only rottmt but in other tmnt shows, I don't remember what show it was but I know to was an older show anyway Mike wore dresses quite a bit and said he like wearing them. In the 2012 series Ralph was acting pretty gay with a lizard guy. also there is a seen were you can see that leo from rottmt was looking at a guys butt.
I think a huge issue with rise was it had to be rushed so they had to skip over certain parts that could be drawn out, which made it kind of quick pased, like draxuma redemption and also some potential parts for thr final fight, but overall o think they did pull it off well and it’s really enjoyable to watch
Rise’s inexplicit queerness means so much to me. I completely understand and acknowledge the importance of explicit representation in Owl House and the other shows you mentioned, but I identify so much more with the way Rise just *is* without saying it out loud. It resonates with me so much more as someone who prefers not to use specific labels and whose “coming out” was more just “deciding to be out.” It gives me the warm and fuzzies, and feels like more personal representation than I’m given elsewhere. “We’re not into labels,” says Mikey in that one episode, and something in my heart starts singing. I also really love the thing you mention about Leo’s queerness-much like Donnie’s autism in your previous video-simply being a part of him. He’s never called out or forced to be contextualized or defined by a relationship. While I understand there are a lot of real-life reasons they probably couldn’t put a label on it, I like to think that the Watsonian/intradiagetic explanation is that he doesn’t feel the need to label it because he knows his family understands, welcomes, and loves him no matter what. Great video! I’ve been looking forward to this one ❤🐢
Thats actually pretty funny because when i first saw Baron or/and Hypno i immediately tought "yeah they're definitely gay" I didnt really think Leo is gay when i first saw him because he reminds me of my dad (he is not gay btw😭, same goes for me) But i did thought that he might be gay lol I also think that Donnie has autism and Mikey has ADHD because they show a lot of symptoms of it (i also have ADHD and i relate to Mikey *a lot* , İT'S LİKE MİKEY İS ME AND İM MİKEY LMAOOO)
I LOVE THE WAY YOU WRITE AND SPEAK IN YOUR VIDEOS I was able to sit down and watch two of them in a row without getting distracted which isn't common for me :]] YOUR VOICE IS CLEAR AND YOU EXCENTUATE PROPERLY TOO SO I DONT NEED CAPTIONS!!! In your other video you were talking about donnies mystical power and how you think their mystic abilities are tied to emotion then offhandedly mentioned mikey and I THINK I KNOW WHAT YOU WERE IMPLYING BUT I REALLY WANT TO SEE WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY ABOUT IT IN DEPTH. keep making videos they're awesome and you're exceptional at character analysis :D
u are so right!!! also, red-eared slider turtles flirt by bowing and rubbing their cheeks against the person they’re trying to flirt with, which are both exactly what leo did in the don suave episode. there’s no way that’s a coincidence
I would like to say with Rise's overall tone and subtext I think the orientation and overall the representations we do get is painfully obvious but not what everyone thinks. With rise and subsequently the turtles we get what we call a perfect acceptances in terms of how the turtles express themselves. We don't see this much with Raph and Donnie but with Mikey and Leo we see it a lot. It's set up in such a natural way that it's basically fluid with everything else in the show. We may never get like a solid love interests for any of the turtles but we do know what their interests are since they all act like what they do is completely normal and not weird at all. Again perfect fluidity with how they express and show interest in
I love how it isn't downright said in the show, but it's made oh so clear (thanks to the little details you picked), that Leo is clearly a man-lover and that Warren and Hypno might as well be married. And I agree so much on Draxum's implications with Lou Jitsu/Splinter too! They do act like exes that have to share custody. And I love how you add the flag from Snow Day at the end! It really sums up well thr topic of the video (gay culture, undertones and acceptance) Also can't leave without the #saverottmnt #unpauserottmnt
I don't know how quite to word it but, in the movie, there is something very DELIGHTFUL about the queer-coded Leo being a the mentor and father-figure to Casey Jones II, the son of the queer-coded Cassandra Jones. Who, after being sent back in time, directly helps save the world by getting Leo to embrace his TRUE self and get over his own hang ups.
As an Asian queer person, and spicifically in China, men were allowed to have gay relationships, but it was seen as a past time and OK as long as you had a family and kids. The sorta only exception was with a Han or Ming Emperor we was openly queer with his social workers. Even taking a nap with one and cutting off his sleeve so it wasn’t uncomfortable to sleep on. That cut sleeve became an old code for queer and others in his court modeled it after his love for him.
god bless creator tweets, without them so much would be lost to the realm of headcanon, but no, we've got canon queer leo and canon autistic donnie. also i wanna say for no reason that a lot of design choices for leo suggest that he might be a fruity lil trans boi, like how the markings on male red-eared sliders darken as they age, yet im pretty sure future leo's markings are just as bright, hinting that he might be afab :)))))
I've heard about this! I like the idea of it and it's a cool design choice, but honestly I can't even tell if it was on purpose or not since the style and color of the show is so inconsistent, it could very well be that from a design standpoint they just didn't think about it that hard and didn't feel like changing his colors and his shape (like his plastron shape) is coincidental. We can still hold onto hope tho 😩 Thanks for watching!
Now that I'm thinking about how Casey Jones and April O'Neil are typically a couple in different adaptations, I think it would have been a real trip if Casey Jr called April "Mom."
“What made rise so gay?” Leo. Nuff said. (Jokes aside this is an awesome video, I love how in depth you went into everything, with all the historical connections and such :D)
I like this video. As a foreigner who knows a little about US history and history of queerness I knew something new and your analysis of the series is very good. Thank you!! Now it's one of my favourite videos about rise of tmnt
Thank you for identifying and explaining many queer things. I try to be inclusive because I don't like being treated differently for something that is none of other people's business or something I can't change. Having said that I love that there is a projected identity, troupes and that these things have names and history like camp, vogue, starry eyed, rainbow. Really informative with amazing video edits to show exactly what you are referring to. This is a high quality video and amusingly I have no idea who the titles character is.
Honestly watching the show I just KNEW there were little things like this and that’s one of the reasons I love it so much! Rise is honestly probably one the best versions that make me feel safe while watching it as someone who’s not fully out of the closet yet! This video I will be sending to all of my friends so I can make an endless amount of inside jokes
I keep getting a lot of the same comments so let me clarify a couple things:
1.) I pointed out the "kiwi" thing is because they threatened to turn him into a smoothie, so it sounds like a double entendre. Or at least it does to someone like me who didn't know about that nickname prior to this episode.
2.) I didn't talk about the Jojo references in "Clothes Don't Make the Turtle" because uh. I forgot to write it in. I meant to. lmao Sorry.
3.) 15:43 - I made a mistake, this is actually a reference to Bowie's album _after_ Ziggy Stardust: _Aladdin Sane._ My bad!
Not mad or anything, just wanted to clear that up! Thanks for watching and I hope you have a lovely day! ❤🌈🐢
There are jojo references in the really-cool-clothes episode? Man, now i gotta watch jojo
Hi 👋 Australian here, I have heard people call New Zealand people kiwis before so I imagine it is a double meaning along with the slang
I'm a kiwi and yes it's very common for us (and I thought others?) to call ourselves kiwis lol. I've heard it started from WW2 where ally soldiers would nickname the nzer soldiers "kiwis" bc of the native bird. it's easier to say than "new zealander" ig
@@AnEmu404 I know you're likely joking, but absolutely *do* watch Jojo. It's not only possibly the campiest anime ever but has genuinely well written and entertaining characters with a creative and fun power system to boot.
@@DOCTOR.DEADHEAD I’m only half joking! I watched the first episode of the second season with my brother, who insisted we skip the fist season haha. We’re currently watching code geass tho so I’ll have to wait until after. I’ve seen the one scene of the guy who turns into paper and pulls a gun and it had me stitches lmao. Now, if only he’d watch rottmnt with me…
I remember two quotes from Mikey:
-"we're not into labels."
-"for a big guy raph has some sweet moves, slayyyy."
I need episode numbers, this is golden
@@MystFox1314 first is the gumbus episode, second was a yt short I'm pretty sure
Technically slay counts as AAVE
If I remember Mickey said
-What are you, turtles?
M-We are not into labels
I laughed
Just because you say slay doesn't make you gay🤷🏿♂️. And leo is what we call in mexico "un fresa" which its kinda like trying to act of a higher economical class when you are not or jsut trying to be bettter then everyone and to put it simple being a "white bitch" but not in a gay way. And cassie was not gay she had a son🤷🏿♂️ which is the regural casie John's from the future (watch the movie). But anyway maybe they put some "gay" sauce here and there it was a good show. To bad it was more fart jokes and slapstick comedy than the action we got on the last episodes and the Netflix movie 🎬 was awesome.
Another instance is April with her "tries to be normal, is a weirdo magnet" thing. She's an outcast from her own society and found comfort and family with other outcasts, and she eventually accepts that. (Also Leo and Donnie trying to help protect her from weirdness in Operation Normal, rather than argue she's fine with them, they support her).
There is also the way Rise plays with gender in general. The boys, all of them, are very emotional (yes Donnie too, occasionally) and expressive. Raph is a tank and bruiser at 15, and is The Softie. And no one makes fun of him for it. He likes hugging his brothers/family, has stuffed animals, likes cute things. And he's allowed to! Leo is allowed (at times unwillingly) to be Leo, in all his glorious gayness. These are four teenage boys raised by an old action star and yet there is no toxic masculinity to be found. And again, April is a bruiser too, but no one would deny her feminity either.
That’s what I love about rise and I’m glad we’re seeing more of that in mainstream media
To be fair, look at what's his name (splinter before mutation) broski was not afraid to look unmasculine.
What's a bruiser
In Lair Games Leo literally has a rainbow painted on the wall behind him in his mockumentary thing. I never see anyone mention it and I laughed out loud when you said "literally written on the wall" because in this episode, it is!
ARE YOU KIDDING ME I DIDNT EVEN NOTICE THAT. the one i picked for that line is donnie sitting in front of the bisexual flag but glad to know literally slapping it up on the wall was a consistent theme lmao
@@heybuwan OH MY GOD I DIDN'T REALISE THE BI COLOURS WERE IN THE BACK, I THOUGHT YOU HAD JUST CHOSEN A RANDOM CLIP FOR THIS LINE
@@lunaschaoticcorner5188 LMAO we're both making discoverings today alkjdshk
@@heybuwan the average queer experience 😭
@@heybuwan there are so many examples of bi flag gradients in the background art throughout the show, it's really great!
And let’s not forget that in the snow day episode Raph says that they should have a flag that “represents all of them” or something along those lines for their snowman to hold and it is literally the rainbow pride flag, they could’ve switched up the color order but they didn’t, they knew what they were doing
And he’s just??? Going on about equality and representing all of them and like. I REFUSE to believe that someone wrote that and DIDNT see the OBVIOUS GAY IMPLICATIONS
@@Vivigreeny25 Wasn’t it the writers point to have some gay implications?
Yea, I personally don't see it necessarily associated to the Turtles, but it definitely was a reference.
Frrrr 😭😭😭
Y'all do realize that rainbows were a thing before it became pride representation right? Ever stop to think they used it because the turtles themselves are color coded and wear masks to indicate that?
“To the… everything about Leo.” Made me laugh out loud, thank you 😭 couldn’t have put it better myself
Actual New Zealander here, and yes we do call ourselves Kiwis, since that is our native bird. But using it as a way of calling Hypno gay is a great interpretation for those that didn't know about our national nickname
A little something about Leo in Hidden City Job is that he is dressed like Apollo and, when pretending to be a statue, poses similarly to a statue of Dionysus. Both of these greek gods had male lovers and Apollo especially is a bit of a queer icon. Leo is wearing a laurel wreath crown which is one of, if not the most seen items in depictions of Apollo. Apollo is also pretty connected with the color gold as he is literally the god of sun and light. Coincidence? Perhaps. But I am CLINGING on the possibility that it isn't a coincidence.
Good call!!! I definitely don't think it's a coincidence 👀❗
Good eye! I was wondering if the statue disguise had a significance but I'm not super knowledgable on Greek myth, so this is really insightful! Thanks for watching!
“Coincidence? Perhaps. But I am CLINGING on the possibility that it isn’t a coincidence.” The queer experience
@@heybuwanI'm a Greek actually and a fun of our mythology. And I can confirm that apolo ( who's my favourite god) had male lovers as well
@@lily_flower0686 I could've sworn Leo was dressed as Adonis
I love Leo's queerness and I don't think I'd ever be wanting it outright stated. The brothers know each other, they don't feel the need to be anyone other than themselves. It's like Donnie and his neurodivergancy, he doesn't need to state in the show at all because his brothers would already know. Leo wouldn't have to completely announce his queerness to his family because they do know him. There may have been a moment when they were kids where Leo had a crush on a guy and the others have known him from there. It ultimately feel like a deep bond between the brothers and I can really appreciate that. These brothers do seem to love each other unconditionally.
I agree, however it’d be nice if it was just… a little more overt? Like, if we ARENT all collectively reading too far into this, I’d like to see at least something that’s a little more solid.
With ND characters, it suffices to not have it be outright stated because it’s super easy to really feel SEEN. In the way characters act and talk, it’s like, most of what ND rep IS. So Donnie be in autistic and it not being said out loud works great because autistic people feel seen regardless or not it’s solidified in the show.
And the same thing applies to Leo, in a way, but the thing is that queer culture is based so much off this, “plausible deniability”, that being queer has become more and more about having NO deniability. About being out and proud, or at least something overt that you can’t explain away.
Idk man I just want Leo to wear a pride pin lol
And maybe this is just me not being able to be content with subtlety, but also I think we deserve actual text rather than subtext. But really, a LOT of this is personal preference, I like it when queer characters are like queer people I know irl: with a shitty sense of humour that involves a lot of ironic homophobia and making things gay for no reason. But I also get why people like feeling more seen in a more quiet way. That’s totally cool too, but I also think there’s a bar we should reach for.
JESUS I am rambling. Adhd demon got me good this time lmao.
@@Vivigreeny25 I mean, it is a bit the same with ND, at least to my knowledge and as someone who isn't ND, they deserve characters that are able to say who they are rather then the deniability divergent people have. Like how at least on TikTok people are happy that characters like Wednesday are idealised but are almost ignored that they are ND and it doesn't change how people treat ND people. But I'm really not one to talk on this subject.
Also honestly to each their own. To me this is a funny little cartoon with turtles that has a lot of action and family bonding which is better than any of the other turtles I've seen. My comment was rather stating they're very caring brothers and they do know and care about each other unlike in some other versions. The problem with 'if Leo came out' he couldn't have a sticker or a pin, that's sort of Mikey's thing when it comes to character designs. If it was something on a wall, it would be deniability, if he had a whole coming out moment (which honestly, who's not to say he already has that was offscreen) then it would either be deemed too much.
So maybe a good middle ground would be confirmed art from an artist that worked on the show with Leo having something on him that would show his queer identity.
@@aquariusquartz6199 Yeah actually, that last bit is exactly what I’m hoping for. I guess I just… dislike how easy it is to deny. Im totally fine with what we have, I just think that if the intention IS for Leo to be queer, we deserve *some* sort of confirmation.
But I do want to point out I’m really happy that people can enjoy the way things are now, I’m just… more tired? Salty??? Tired, salty and bisexual let’s go with that. Anyways point is, sorry for countering like that for no real reason. I hope you continue to enjoy the little turtles guys. :)
@@Vivigreeny25 We can only hope we can get that. And if not, headcanons and fanart are always amazing and personally feeds my soul.
I think I'm happy; even if things are slow, we do have shows now that have gay couples, trans characters who are open in who they are and so forth that isn't only just 1 confirmed tweet. LGBTQ+ has come a long way and that alone is enough for me. I also hope you continue to enjoy the little turtle dudes and find all the queer media that can make you happy!
@@aquariusquartz6199 :)
17:33 I would like to add something this if you don't mind.
I think a little detail that is VERY important to note in this scene is his eyes. The human pupil is known to expand up to 70% when looking at something/someone they consider to be attractive. Look at his pupils here, they noticeably enlarge. Obviously it's a bit difficult to determine how much this applies to Leo since he's obviously not entirely human, however, that fact alone does not entirely dismiss this.
Anthropomorphism is the attribution of human-like features to a non-human subject, and is something often used to help audiences connect with fictional characters. The boys in Rise are *very* anthro, so I don't think it's too much of a stretch to believe that Leo's eyes getting bigger here was meant to convey some sort of attraction.
That's true, I hadn't noticed that! Good eye! :0
Oh also since it's technically a kids show they'd probably go a little more overt with the anthropomorphic stuff to make it more accessible for the younger audience, so...👀
I mean… 11:10
Same here^^😂😂
A fun fact I heard about his specific species of turtle, (Red-eared Slider turtle) is that they rub faces on other turtles to flirt, and while he was being floated away with the dude after being saved, he was rubbing his cheek on the handsome dude. (that I somehow forgot the name of..) (Side note: Please don't take this as me "shipping" or implying them to be attracted to *each other,* just about Leo's queer attraction to the other dudes appearance specifically. Otherwise that'd be really gross.)
Well Leo is half human
The Leo segment hit me hard, because I absolutely do try to exude confidence and bravado as a defense against Being In High School (which is, as you might know, not the most queer friendly place) but I am also just. Secretly terrified sometimes, especially when I'm interacting with new people.
ALSO, on a lighter note, the "accidental" implication that Leo's trans by having his adult self be the same color as his teen self, and by having him be so big (red eared slider males get darker as a part of turtle puberty + the female sliders are bigger than the males) and like!! Hell yeah!!! Trans gay little Leo is my everything
Agreed, I love that perspective on Leo! I didn't include it here mostly because I would just spend a loooong time contradicting myself and going back and forth on why it may or may not be intentional but it's something I still think about fondly and often! 💙🐢
Yo! I literally read a fic with this in mind from the author! It's a Rise Leosagi one too! It's on a hiatus I think ("When I Said I'm Asexual This Is Not What I Meant!" on AO3)
@@chocolatesugar-lovage9678 isn't "rise leosagi" called leosachi ? Because it's two different bunnies? :0
Some people believe leo is bi most belive he is gay but i'm glad we can all agree he is not straight in any way.
Like some people even think he’s aro/ace, but like. NOBODY thinks he’s cishet.
Boy is about as straight as a rainbow slinky, no matter what he is
@@azar_rosethorn_art as a wise man once said
"I've been as straight as a ramp. If you don't count Bible camp"
I think he’s bi but if he’s gay im not surprised
100% not straight
CAN I JUST SAY: HUGINN AND MUNNIN! THE GARGOYLES!
Those two, every interaction I see them in it feels like they're husbands. The way they gawk at each other, spend time together, encourage one another, it's just adorable and totally feels like they're together. Just me soaking in every detail of them as possible. Actually? Y'know what? I'm totally gonna make a clips video of these two dorks!
For the record yes Rock this gay gargoyles vibe Lex and Stagheart need company also these two are adorable
Their names sound like SNUFKIN AND MOOMIN from Moomin valley, which the gay community had decided their gay coeded. Wether that's head cannon we can never know. I find it funny that there names are so similar. Other similarity being there designs , A round one and a pointy one.
A fun fact I heard about Leo's specific species of turtle, (Red-eared Slider turtle) is that they rub faces on other turtles to flirt, and while he was being floated away with that dude after being saved, he was rubbing his cheek on him. (I apologize for forgetting the "handsome" guy's name..) Side note: Please don't take this as me "shipping" or implying that they are BOTH attracted to *each other,* just about Leo's queer attraction to the other dude(s)/dudes appearance specifically. Otherwise that'd be really gross.
Donnies bisexual lighting is what I live for
Nah fam, he ace AF.
@@cristhianmlr u can be bisexual and asexual :)
@@sawnickringz *you, and no, one thing is sexuality and other is romance.
@@cristhianmlr What??? Sexuality and romance are two separate things… bisexual is a sexual orientation, so is asexual. You can be asexual and still want to be in a loving romantic relationship.
@@sawnickringz Wanting to be in a romantic relationship is wanting romance, despite being asexual. I know it since I'm asexual and demiromantic.
#SaveRiseTMNT I'm from pretty conservative family, in conservative country, and for first time Western "gay" theme start to get into my everyday life i was confused, but with time going i understand that gay its not only about sex, it's about lifestyle, adoption and self-knowledge. Back then i felt like gay it's something different, not normal people, and always need to be known. Now i think that's part of our society, part of our world acceptance. I'm heterosexual, and i accept world there i live.
we need more people like you
You are amazing you dropped this 👑
Also, it's not just "lifestyle" it's a part of you.
@@malaksafa4074 I'm 100% sure they meant that being gay doesn't mean just sex, it means being able to live your lifestyle while gay (for example, being in a queer couple without having to hide it) and with adoption and self-knowledge thrown in, I am sure that they mean it in that way.
They are saying that they understand now that it's part of living, not just a sex thing.
I'm sorry if I sounded annoyed, but it makes no sense to only grab that tiny part of their heartfelt comment where they simply explained their new understanding of being queer. Again, sorry if I sound annoyed, I just wanted to try and explain :)
@@JDM-is-my-name ya I know, I said that just in case.
If Rise comes back and brings in Usagi, I have a feeling the gayness will be cranked to an 11. Admittedly, the (genuine) cute fanarts have got me on board with this ship.
Leo will be the Amity to Usagi's Luz, if you get me.
I agree but I feel as though the roles would be reversed. Leo is more impulsive and flashy, like Luz, and usagi has always been more stoic
Omg yes I agree with this sm
@@AdbotsStuff no, lol. do you guys remember "the ep where usagi meditated so hard he accidentally sent himself on a literal acid trip in the middle of a battle"?? he is as goofy as Leo but Leo is a plan dude and he knows when to get serious (unlike pure goofball usagi) so..
@@КровавыйОхотник-и6г I don’t really remember that. To be fair, I have mostly only read the old comics, and I don’t remember all of them.
As long as they make usagi younger (usagi is in his late 20's ..."
Honestly I think what I really like about it, is that it's there but also not fully expressed. Since essentially the show is technically targeted for "kids" they don't want to outright say it. Kinda like what they did with Korrasami, it became canon but they revealed it in a subtle way and the only way people found out was digging between the lines, the comics and the creator's tweet online, which is something a lot of children didn't have access to or find. And really I think that's the best way to go at times
And that's something I can appreciate about Rise, especially in terms of Leo, they're not treating him as "the gay character" but rather a character who "just happens to be gay". (at least by speculation). That's mostly stacked behind all his other qualities as a character outside of his potential sexual orientation. Because realistically that's how the LGBTQ community is, being gay or queer isn't their personality. It just happens to be a part of them outside of their depth of character. And to me, thats the perfect way to represent a LGBTQ character
but my god, if we ever get a season three, Leo needs to get a boyfriend. haha
Preferably Usagi 🤣
LEOSAGI NEEDS TO BE CANNON 🥹
Yea usagi should come in season 3!(as boyfriend or "best" friend for Leo)
YESS I NEED LEOSAGI TO HAPPEN
If Leosagi DOESN’T happen I’ll literally cry fr
Leosagi is the best ship you can’t change my minf
bro 💀’what made rise so gay’ LMFAO 😭😭😭
some of their movement ig💀
@@starllenpleb did u watch the video
As a 33 Year old Cis Blac dude who has loved TMNT since the early 90's, I find Rise's community to be so refreshingly inclusive. Completely different than those other TMNT fanboy communities
Leo being gay is just a feeling in your heart
13:49 the poses Donnie does here are Jojo poses. JJBA is widely acclaimed to be a very camp anime with lots of themes of queerness in it's story and portrayals of queer masculinity through its outrageously over the top characters. Didn't ever think I'd be able to say that 'Donatello, the ninja turtle, is a Jojo's fan' but there's a first time for everything I guess
I wish this show had a fan base like this when it was airing. Maybe we could have gotten more seasons. I’m happy it’s finally getting the recognition it deserves, but as a day 1 fan of the show, I can’t help but be a little bitter that everyone is singing it’s praises now instead of then.
I admit that I definitely slept on this show, and I mentioned in my first video on this channel how I'm just a little bitter about the bad faith reviews it received when it first aired. But I guess the recognition is better late than never. The Rise team knows that what they made was good, and others are starting to recognize it too. With enough noise making, maybe we can even get Nickelodeon to pick the show back up for another season or movie!
I sadly didn't know it existed until some time in the past year when I watched an Owl House video and then got recommended an analysis video that person did on Donnie 😭
I love these gay little turtle boys, I want to see more episodic shenanigans
Unfortunately it didn't air in my country until it was too late. Something something copyright and broadcasting.
Yeah, I'm sorry I slept on this show when it aired too... because this is lowkey my favorite iteration of TMNT. I feel like the death knell for this show was that it came out immediately after 2012 ended. Not helping was that the first half of season 1 was admittedly a mixed bag, and the show took a while to find its footing. So people were essentially comparing the worst parts of Rise to the best parts of 2012, and it was just a downhill cycle from there. I personally thought Rise looked great, but the early writing didn't do enough to hook me, and I never really watched it until after the movie came out and people started going back and saying the show got way better with time. Hearing about autistic Donnie helped a lot too lol.
Anyway, 2012 came out years after 2003's fanbase died down, so people were a lot more willing to give it a shot, and stores were more willing to stack up on merch (an overlooked point imo- stores did not seem all that eager to stock up on Rise merch when they still had a bunch of merch from the 2012 show they were selling, which could explain Rise's low toy sales.)
I'm clinging onto the hope that since the movie did really well and the show is officially just on an indefinite hiatus (not cancelled) that Nickelodeon can bring it back and test the waters for a new season. Mutant Mayhem was good, but I'd take more Rise over more MM any day. The family dynamic in Rise is 👌👌👌 and I really loved what they were doing with Draxum, even if they were forced to rush his redemption arc
"Look at him! Look at the way he stands and sits! You can not look me in the eyes and say he's straight!" -A real statement made by my twin sister to our dad 😂
"To the everything about Leo" Honey I choked on my tea. Love this video! It's so clear you've done your research! Thank you for making this for the community :))
But where's the lie
"There isn't really a right way to be queer, and It feels like Rise really gets that without having to say it" YES! YES!! YES!!!!! LITERALLY ALL OF THIS!!!! I think this is one of the main reasons why I love Rise and why it speaks to me on such a deep level! The Queer experience is more then just romantic relationships! And even though it's still important to have that kind of representation, and I do still like when they explore that specific part of it, I feel much more connected to a piece of media when it rather explores what is like to be queer! The feeling of being left and not meeting the expectations of the people around you, but the happiness that comes when you do find out that theirs people that will love you and accept you for who you are regardless of anything society things is "right". Because at the end of the day, love is love! And love comes in all sorts of way! Love for yourself, love for your friends, love for your passions, love of your family... and I think rise gets that SO perfectly it honestly makes me so so happy! Unconventional found family is the best!! And this gay little turtle show will always have a place in my heart because of that! 🐢🏳️🌈
🐢 and 🏳️🌈 In sequence is the highlight of my day❤
you are, by FAR, the best tmnt breakdown RUclipsr i've ever seen. keep up the good work!
Thank you!! That means so much!! :'D 🌈🐢
The way I saw the LGBTQ representation on this show was more on the idea that anyone could be anything anytime. More specifically, that everyone was kind of fluid, and I think that was a good approach for a show that was intended for the new generation. A generation that is growing learning that gender is a spectrum and that sexual orientations may not be that well defined after all. From that perspective, not stating a character is specifically gay, is probably more powerful, because it emphasizes that no one really would need to fit into one category.
Having said that, yeah, I think you identified all the gay things in the show. I am only on the fence with Draxum, but you may be right.
I am gay, by the way.
I agree! While I definitely see the value in things like actually saying the word and how that's important to people, I think that not saying it can be just as powerful for the reason you mentioned. Especially since it's a kids show and kids will fluctuate as they discover themselves and build their identities. Thanks for watching!
Thank you for this video I love rise and I couldn't explain why it was so gay outside of the "it's the vibe" lmao. Also genius title and thumbnail I laughed so hard before actually watching the video 😂
RIGHT. this script took a little longer than I thought it would because i had to just sit there being like. "i dunno. it's a vibe."
Oh, my god. This video is absolutely fantastic.
TMNT as a franchise was always so different from everything else. As stated, it's a story about mutant teenage turtles obsessed with pizza who are taught the art of ninjutsu by a mutated rat. By media standards, it shouldn't work- _but it does really well._ And that's also what makes it appealing to queer audiences. Rise inadvertently took that aspect of it and multiplied it by 100. More vibrant colours (as opposing to 2012 TMNT, which had a very somber, dark colour scheme throughout the series), smooth and jumpy animation and the 'controversial' change of personality (and design) of the turtles. I think all of these choices are amazing and fit perfectly for the narrative of the TMNT universe.
Queerness is represented in the show so naturally, that people who aren't part of the community barely notice it and more often than not, are also the main critics of the reboot (cowards). But to us, it's more than entertaining and fun to watch. It feels _safe._ And that's what queer representation is supposed to do in media. Make you feel safe. And ROTTMNT achieves this not by explicitly showing us or telling us that its characters are queer or putting them in any relationships, but by just letting them be themselves and giving them a safe environment to be so! This goes for the neurodivergent representation they have going on too.
Leo is never shown to be romantically attracted to anyone (only that he's aesthetically attracted to Don Suave), but you can tell by his personality and the way he expresses himself that he's proud of who he is and not afraid to show it to the world, which is why we think of him as the gay icon he is. He represents queerness as _a way to be,_ not just a way to be in a relationship. And I think that is so important and cool. Rise Leo is definitely my favourite iteration of him (although he's equally as non-straight in any other universe - wink wink, Usagi). And same with Donnie and autistic representation. It's never blatantly stated, but lots of traits in his character put him on the autistic spectrum, and that aspect of him is respected and understood by his family and friends. That is just so beautiful.
Regardless, thank you so much for putting this video together. Rise deserves infinitely more love than it already gets, and videos like this make me appreciate it even more.
Yes I absolutely agree and love your statement truly well stated✨
This is beautifully said and I fully agree. Showing Leo just being allowed to be himself and existing proudly is so important, especially for a kids show. Queerness isn't just about relationships. Thanks for watching!
I actually adore Rise for making everyone just act naturally about everything. I think it's exactly what makes them so lovable. You don't think of Donnie being autistic as terrible. You think it's cute or quirky. And you love how they all except it. It makes you feel safe. And Leo being gay or not. I wouldn't have any doubt either way and I love it. They all give you this - the family/friends you always wanted vibe. ❤️
you're so right! i never noticed some of this stuff before. now that i think about it, TMNT itself is such a campy, fun, and wacky concept it's no wonder how it (especially Rise) has so many LGBTQIA+ fans.
you're so right abt the safety thing though fr. this show genuinely feels *so* safe
Touching on family dynamics and the relation to queerness, the "found family" trope is another one that is inherently queer-coded. Of course the boys and such are actually related, but with the adoption of outside characters as "being part of the family" and the whole ragtag vibe of them all, it really pushes this narrative forward. Probably why so many older queer people enjoy the show despite it being geared towards kids.
Addionally, for most of their lives they DIDN’T know they were related. Not to each other or to Splinter.
GAY FUN FACT OF TODAY: Hypno is actually voiced by Rhys Darby, who, for those not in the know, also played Captain Stede Bonnet, the gay as heck protagonist of Our Flag Means Death (aka the gay pirate show)
Oh my gosh, I loved this video so much! Queercoding is often only referred to as «fandom culture» and «overanalysing» on the internet, so seeing an actual analysis of this topic in the show I love, about the characters I relate to, feels so incredibly good. Thank you for this video, it actually made me so happy I had to stand up and walk around to calm down (/pos) during the watch, haha
I'm totally fine with being accused of over analyzing if my end cards were anything to go by! This topic shouldn't be considered a bad thing if it helps people connect and engage with media better. Stories and animation are art just like anything else and we should read into it and analyze it like art, imo.
I was having a meltdown about censoring queerness from children this evening (sometimes you can't deal with being vilified, so just let the anger flow) and honestly this video was really soothing. I sadly can't watch Rise where I live, but I fell in love with the series from all the compilations youtube keeps offering me. It's sad that this has to be subtext - though I don't think Rise needs to be explicit on it either (wholesome found family stories are very good) - yet if that's what it takes for there to be media I can relate to, I'll take it. At least the bigots won't be able to pick up on it and make a ruckus
Bro what made Rise so gay
"EVERYTHING"
Everything is gay these days people forget this used to be a disorder
Honestly, I originally wanted to watch Rise because it seemed interesting, more comedic than super plot heavy iterations/remakes like 2012, and because I saw multiple people talking about Donnie specifically. After watching it, I really couldn't help but clock Leo as exceptionally, flamboyantly, gay. All the Rise characters are Extra (TM), which to me makes them all seem/feel not exactly cis, hetero, neurotypical, take your pick.
But despite that, Leo still stood out in that capacity. He seemed so campy and, in a weird way I can't quite explain, like a drag queen. The way he moved, posed, talked, his expressions, reactions, musicality to an extent, but also his insecurities all screamed "This boy is queer." to me. So I looked online, and lo and behold it wasn't an uncommon finding!
I think one of the main reasons he comes off as gay, despite being subtle in most capacities (though prevalent) was because of his story and insecurities. He is insecure about his worth and capabilities, and this is further amped up by his lack of control over his portals; for a number of queer people (myself included), insecurity about our orientation, value to our family, and overall worth in the face of historical oppression and a lot of modern apathy are things that are very present in our lives, and not being inherently or stereotypically queer (having a same sex partner, dressing flamboyantly, loving and being good at theater, affinity to fashion, etc.) usually earns comments about how we aren't queer or are no longer queer.
Leo is the self proclaimed face man, and is one of the most socially perceptive characters; one of the things queer people learn or are taught is to be perceptive and capable of clocking who is and isn't going to take our existence well, when to say or not say things to avoid persecution, and who is safe to trust with ourselves. Leo's theatricality and displayed superiority at times is used to mask his fears, insecurities, and the danger he feels himself in; falling back on theatricality and an over-the-top personalities is something not only do I do to confuse and shake my fears, but have seen done multiple times by queer friends and family.
Leo is very likely coded queer or gay, but I think the reason we as an audience picked it up as easily and readily we did was because we could see ourselves in him. Unlike some shows where characters become fanon queer because of unintentional queer coding/intentional queer baiting relationships, Leo feels queer down to his very bones because he mimics a lot of us. Not everyone, and not in the details or particulars of specific orientations, but in the underlying events, moments, experiences, and feelings we all usually share.
idk, this became an essay unintentionally, i just like watching the flamboyant gay turtle be himself and be accepted along with his def neurodivergent, possibly also queer, twin.
DUDE!!!!! This was so well put together! I've been so excited for this video since you started talking about it on twitter like a month ago it was worth the wait :D
AAAAAAAA THANK YOU ive been excited to release this one!! 😭
Another bit of possible queercoding for Leo is the coloration of his markings. It's very common for male red-eared sliders to exhibit a color change as they mature, with the bright red and yellow no longer being visible, meanwhile the females generally keep the same coloration. Leo has visible red and yellow markings even as an adult in the movie, so one could see him as a trans man or transmasc.
Leo's first ever VA is gay, and hcs Leo as such! Makes Rise Leo such a delight
i read a lot of the gay but as an aroace it sometimes goes over my head and it was extremely apparent at warren and hypno, even the tittle, it usually ends with x and y sitting on a tree K I S S I N G.
NO SAME I'M ASEXUAL AND WHEN THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT WARREN AND HYPNO I WAS LIKE "HOW DID I NOT NOTICE THIS????"
GOD I KNOW RIGHT????
@@SweetTooth1102 I'm ace and aro and I noticed XD But that's cause i love me my gay men Pffff
Personally, the episode I myself really started picking up on Leo’s fruitiness was Portal Jacked. I mean he literally says “I came out fine” and “remember, YOU’RE supposed to be the straight man” to Hueso. AND it’s paired with the gayest episode in the show (at least according to the wiki they’re episodes 17a and 17b). I’m like, oh, so it’s OBVIOUS obvious.
tbf, "straight man" is a trope name for the serious character in a group of goofballs, but it can definitely be a double meaning like the kiwi thing
I've always thought rise was queer in the aspec (aro and ace) way,as someone who's aro themselves, seeing a piece of media that has no romance in it* yet feels so unapologetically queer is what makes rottmnt special to me.
*aside from warren and hypno,that is,but even their relationship can be interpreted as a queerplatonic one,a type of relationship that originated within the aspec community (or,well,the term to describe that kind of relationship,since things don't come to exist the moment a label for them is created)
Yes! I love this. I’m aroace, and this show is so refreshing.
[Also Hypno and Warren in a qpr is my head canon :) ]
Yes same!
Everything about this video is great but 1:02 "the...everything...about Leo" has me dying every single time
Edit: ok i also feel the need to stress that the amount of research that is put into this analysation is absolutely fundamental. This is like academic level of stating a fact and having the sources to back it up and it excited in such a casual way that it's so easy for the audience to follow
I think another reason as to why I noticed how "queer" the show is due to how open and campy the show is, especially in the action scenes. I think having characters the characters being more flamboyant in general really adds to all the camp and flair the show has.
It's also really nice seeing the characters being open about certain parts of themselves and their interests (regardless of how it relates to their gender) :]
Every time I’m like, “idk am I overthinking this?” I think about that one scene in Snowday where they replace the Jupiter Jim flag with all their scarves in rainbow order, and Raph is talking about how “this flag represents all of us equally, standing together in equality :)” and I’m like, Raph is there anything you’d to like share with the class.
Side note: Losing my mind over those tweets because like. What do you MEAN the “the overtones” and “this one” and “at least part of” LIKE HELLO???? You mean gay overtones??? You mean that this ISNT just a one time instance??? WHATS THE OTHER PART????
Edit: oh wait should I be tagging these in comments?
#saverottmnt
#unpauserottmnt
Ralph is so bi. He is the most bi to ever bi (in my mind). I love him. 🫶
Great video! Rise will always hold a special place in my heart for its representation that feels personal to me, and the way that it handles that representation, really makes me feel seen, even if it wasn’t always intentional, I loved this analysis, ty for making great rise content as always!
I'm a gay man who really wants Elsa to have a girlfriend and 100% unironically believes that Raya is a lesbian, but I get sad when people say frozen is secretly a coming out story because the entire story of both films is build on trauma with Elsa having PTSD from almost killing her sister and Ana having CPTSD from being isolated in her childhood. I myself have CPTSD and really appreciate how well Elsa's powers visualize her feelings. The way they show how beautiful, liberating and amazing it feels when you get to be calm and just happy. And the way they show how much you can push away, scare and hurt others when the trigger thoughts come running back.
Both movies are so beautiful at showing how people with PTSD and CPTSD can act and feel when they're afraid or calm and as a guy who've also lived the queer experience, i think it's sad to just overwrite that with a coming out story.
But disney, please give my snow queen a girlfriend. I want that so badly!I'm a gay man who really wants Elsa to have a girlfriend and 100% unironically believes that Raya is a lesbian, but I get sad when people say frozen is secretly a coming out story because the entire story of both films is build on trauma with Elsa having PTSD from almost killing her sister and Ana having CPTSD from being isolated in her childhood. I myself have CPTSD and really appreciate how well Elsa's powers visualize her feelings. The way they show how beautiful, liberating and amazing it feels when you get to be calm and just happy. And the way they show how much you can push away, scare and hurt others when the trigger thoughts come running back.
Both movies are so beautiful at showing how people with PTSD and CPTSD can act and feel when they're afraid or calm and as a guy who've also lived the queer experience, i think it's sad to just overwrite that with a coming out story.
But disney, please give my snow queen a girlfriend. I want that so badly!
I fully agree with that, I do think Elsa's story is a really well done metaphor for trauma and internalizing emotions. Before it's a queer story, it's a story about a traumatized woman. I more brought up Elsa's story as a coming out story because often I find that the discussion around her story being queer coded doesn't actually talk about why people think that it's queer. Also just for the sake of discussing the "queer story fronting as something else" I wanted to use a story that I knew people would likely already know and was easy to digest. Great point though, Frozen is first and foremost a story about trauma, no denying! (Also yes give her a gf she deserves it!)
Disney: but china….
08:06 laughed a little at this. I've been living in New Zealand my whole life and I absolutely loved the representation Hypno gave the show because the only other times in media NZ is represented is in Moana which is about Pacifica culture in general and in NZ made movies like Boy and LOTR. And yes! we do call ourselves kiwis but not after the fruit. The kiwi bird is our symbol and it makes perfect sense to me but I can understand why others find it weird lol. There are a lot of kiwi and Maori jokes in this show which really comforted me even though I had to explain them to the people I was watching the show with! Hypno makes jokes about Wellington (capital of nz not the boots), compares explosions to our volcanoes and uses a bunch of Maori words and slang with Warren who I like the hc is learning Te Reo because of him :)) rewatch the show with this in mind and everything you dont understand that Hypno says is most likely something a nod to nz culture
Wow! That's really cool, I never knew all that stuff, I only knew his VA was from NZ! I only mentioned the fruit thing because the ransom note mentions turning him into a smoothie, which I thought maybe was a funny little way to nod to the nickname as well as call him a fruit. I didn't realize that he had so many references in his dialogue though, and I really like your headcanon about Warren, that's so cute. Thanks for watching and thanks for the info! 🌈🐢
@@heybuwan is that Rhys Darby? This video has made me very interested to check out this show, and Rhys being in it would be the icing on the cake lol
@@sammartin1972 yep, it's Rhys Darby!
I'm honestly super happy that there are more cartoons that have queer rep, whether it be heavily coded so the network doesn't body slam you or outright like in Dead End: Paranormal Park with it's transmale MC. ROTTMNT has always had the "vibe" of being queer but it's amazing to see you analyze and research the amount of effort the team put in to make sure the community caught it! Amazing work 💗
Amazing video as always!! :) I also think it's important to note Rise in contrast to the series that came directly before it when analysing its queerness. The 2012 series was notoriously a mixed bag when it came to its relationships, from The Love Triangle to the general grossness of what was going on with Leo and Karai (seriously, what was up with that?), and I think that heavily influenced Rise's "no romantic relationship" policy, for lack of a better term. This then obviously impacted how queer the show appeared, since there's no romances between any of the boys and a girl character in the show even hinted at.
Regardless of whether the negative reception for the previous show's most well-known romantic pairings affected how Rise handled relationships or not, it's interesting to think about on a metatextual level. I do also think it's just a nice change of pace for Leo to finally be free of the weird romance curse he was afflicted with for so long, and a little bit funny how seemingly the only way to do that was to make him the most overtly gay character of them all.
The type of subtle representation for characters like Leo is quite possibly my favourite type of queer representation, as much as I adore shows with overt queerness and lgbt themes like the owl house or she-ra and as important as representation like that is, seeing a character who just happens to be queer is exponentially important. Not every queer person needs or even wants a romantic relationship (speaking as an Aromantic so its possible im biased) so showing characters like Leo who just happen to be queer really does help show that we aren’t just ‘the queer person’ but we’re normal people who have friends, family, a job, passions and interests that go outside of our sexual orientation or gender identity. At the end of the day we’re all just people and, while I do think exploring or even just confirming this part of Leo would be amazing, it really doesn’t need to be a plot point or spectacle, it can just be a part of who he is like it is for the rest of us.
(Side note: (had trouble articulating this but I figured it out, both overt and sublet representation of minority groups are incredibly important but because so many stories that does include mentioned queerness make a point to make it a huge part of the character or in some cases their whole arc, I feel like representation that just is has become so important because it allows minority groups to just exist within media without their entire character being a spectacle or ‘learning experience’ for people not a part of those groups. Similar to the subtle representation of Donnie or Mikeys neurodivergence simply being there and not a spectacle for allistics to laugh at or ‘learn from’)
Me watching Leo move, talk, sit, gesticulate, and just generally EXIST: "Oh, there is absolutely no heterosexual explanation for that"
But jokes aside, I literally learned more about queer-coding and history in this video than anywhere else, so thank you for that. Came for my turtle boys, stayed for the free lesson
GOSH I LOVE THESE VIDEOS!!! I'm always so excited when I see a new one come out! And I'm SO happy that this one is about Rises queer coding, something that not many people who talk about the show actually acknowledge (At least from what I've seen) I mean, Rise being queer is all over the fandom, but nobody talks about WHY it's all over the fandom. This video is so awesome and surprisingly educational, which always makes me happy! As someone who is very queer, Rises not so subtle coding always made me smile, and I'm so glad that it's being talked about by one of my new favorite content creators!
THAT'S SO SWEET THANK YOU!! I try to combine educational content where I can, especially since I know a lot of the Rise fandom are very young! I'm glad you enjoyed, thanks so much for watching!
8:06 as an aussie, can confirm we call new zealanders "kiwi" referring to both the native bird and the fruit.
BRUH WHAT A GOOD TITLE 🗿🍷
the two roommates that are just so so soooo close
*shows bugs and daffy
i love it
14:59 I just realized that Raph’s jacket has the pan flag colors
The whole piercing on one of their ears to signal to other gay men is really funny to me, bc my dad (who’s very much a heterosexual) used to have a piercing in one of his ears to signal that he was deaf in that ear.
Fun fact: According to the wiki fandom, Hypno has a running gag of recalling several landmarks and cultural references to New Zealand, the home country for his voice actor, Rhys Darby
“to everything… leo.” SO TRUE
Such a great video! I loved your dive into queer history and culture too! I'm a sorta closeted bisexual guy, so it was really nice to learn some history! (tho it's not like public schools taught me much🙄)
I'll definitely check this show out now, especially now that it might be cancelled. This show looks like it has some really great moments and heart poured into it, I hope it gets revived the third season it desperately deserves.
20:48 looks like he is saying that 😳
0:56 LMAO 🤣🤣🤣
"To the...everything, about Leo"
Rise is fr the zestiest set of turtles and I'm so here for it. I love all the representation in the show it's perfect. I wish there was more of it.
I always feel like TMNT kinda has a queer narrative baked into it, just by the relationship that the turtles have with the humans. They're forced to hide themselves and showing themselves either yields friends who want to help them, or people who want to hurt them. I wish more TMNT writers would realize this, but I will live with the idea in my head for now.
Also, Leo's kinda gay in most versions even if it is more subtle. He and Usagi in the 03 series are very...y'know.
Tbh I feel like TMNT is gay just because the concept is so… ridiculous??? It’s CAMPY and that makes me look at it all like, “wow, teenage mutant ninja fruits??”.
Also 2012 Leo falls into the same box because the boy had the BIGGEST crush on Captain Ryan I’m soRRY ITS NOT A MANCRUSH IT IS A NORMAL ASS GAY CRUSH LET HIM BE BISEXUAL PLS
@@mom40 Oh god ik it’s horrible
HOWEVER it’s worth mentioning that I’m like, 99% convinced he had a crush on Captain Ryan. Like yeah yeah he thinks he’s cool because he Wow He’s Such A Great (space) Hero Look At How He Leads His Team but like. Idk it looked at least a LITTLE bit like a crush.
"it literally being written on the wall to everything about Leo" is great and i'm only a minute in XD
Art has always been open to interpretation, so we can see what we want in it and apply our own meaning to it, regardless of the artist’s intention.
"What made Rise so gay?" Excellent question, _Leo._
Really great video explaining why the show is gay instead of saying it's gay because it is. Leo part is my favorite part of the video because the glam rock part and the way you analyze the Suave part was totally new to me and I read a lot of theads and discussions on why Leo is gay 😅
I love how you start the video and provide background information because I completely forgot that this was about Rise and thought I was watching an insightful video about queerness within the movie industry. So when it came back to Rise, it was being smacked with a shoe. In a good way. Love your analysis, thank you for sharing this
“RIDE IT LIKE A RAINBOWWWW”
-Leonardo Da Turtle
6:59 i gasped so hard my lungs hurt that is so wonderful
btw that also means it was aired on my birthday so its kinda like a present
This video is so good at describing not just Rise’s gay coding but the culture of it general. Honestly, it would be interesting if April ended up with Cassandra or become just besties instead. She could even end up with her future son from the movie. Who knows? Anyways, I didn’t really see a lot of characters as gay except for possibly Cassandra, Hypno, and Warren.
I like the idea that she either A) just found Baby during the apocalypse and decided to keep him. Or B) Had Donnie and/or Barry make her a semi-clone.
@@caitlinbrewer4843 Both sound like good theories but the first one sounds more realistic. Are these your theories or have other people suggested them?
I needed to rewatch this video as a break from working on my own video about the straight relationships in the 2012 show...I need to remember that there's gay TMNT content!
There are some other things that I have noticed in not only rottmt but in other tmnt shows, I don't remember what show it was but I know to was an older show anyway Mike wore dresses quite a bit and said he like wearing them. In the 2012 series Ralph was acting pretty gay with a lizard guy. also there is a seen were you can see that leo from rottmt was looking at a guys butt.
I think a huge issue with rise was it had to be rushed so they had to skip over certain parts that could be drawn out, which made it kind of quick pased, like draxuma redemption and also some potential parts for thr final fight, but overall o think they did pull it off well and it’s really enjoyable to watch
Rise’s inexplicit queerness means so much to me. I completely understand and acknowledge the importance of explicit representation in Owl House and the other shows you mentioned, but I identify so much more with the way Rise just *is* without saying it out loud. It resonates with me so much more as someone who prefers not to use specific labels and whose “coming out” was more just “deciding to be out.” It gives me the warm and fuzzies, and feels like more personal representation than I’m given elsewhere.
“We’re not into labels,” says Mikey in that one episode, and something in my heart starts singing.
I also really love the thing you mention about Leo’s queerness-much like Donnie’s autism in your previous video-simply being a part of him. He’s never called out or forced to be contextualized or defined by a relationship. While I understand there are a lot of real-life reasons they probably couldn’t put a label on it, I like to think that the Watsonian/intradiagetic explanation is that he doesn’t feel the need to label it because he knows his family understands, welcomes, and loves him no matter what.
Great video! I’ve been looking forward to this one ❤🐢
Thats actually pretty funny because when i first saw Baron or/and Hypno i immediately tought "yeah they're definitely gay" I didnt really think Leo is gay when i first saw him because he reminds me of my dad (he is not gay btw😭, same goes for me) But i did thought that he might be gay lol
I also think that Donnie has autism and Mikey has ADHD because they show a lot of symptoms of it (i also have ADHD and i relate to Mikey *a lot* , İT'S LİKE MİKEY İS ME AND İM MİKEY LMAOOO)
I LOVE THE WAY YOU WRITE AND SPEAK IN YOUR VIDEOS I was able to sit down and watch two of them in a row without getting distracted which isn't common for me :]] YOUR VOICE IS CLEAR AND YOU EXCENTUATE PROPERLY TOO SO I DONT NEED CAPTIONS!!! In your other video you were talking about donnies mystical power and how you think their mystic abilities are tied to emotion then offhandedly mentioned mikey and I THINK I KNOW WHAT YOU WERE IMPLYING BUT I REALLY WANT TO SEE WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY ABOUT IT IN DEPTH. keep making videos they're awesome and you're exceptional at character analysis :D
Wow thank you, this is very sweet and I'm glad you enjoyed them so much! 🌈🐢
If Rise comeback sometime,I need Leo and Usagi interaction,preferably like the comic when Leo gets flustered #SaveRiseTMNT
Yes, yes, and YES!!!!!
u are so right!!! also, red-eared slider turtles flirt by bowing and rubbing their cheeks against the person they’re trying to flirt with, which are both exactly what leo did in the don suave episode. there’s no way that’s a coincidence
PFFT BRO THEY HAD TO HAVE DONE THAT ON PURPOUSE
I love the way you explain everything, and the way you explained Leo's character was how I felt about him but... put into words >♡< ❤️❤️❤️
I would like to say with Rise's overall tone and subtext I think the orientation and overall the representations we do get is painfully obvious but not what everyone thinks. With rise and subsequently the turtles we get what we call a perfect acceptances in terms of how the turtles express themselves. We don't see this much with Raph and Donnie but with Mikey and Leo we see it a lot. It's set up in such a natural way that it's basically fluid with everything else in the show. We may never get like a solid love interests for any of the turtles but we do know what their interests are since they all act like what they do is completely normal and not weird at all. Again perfect fluidity with how they express and show interest in
I love how it isn't downright said in the show, but it's made oh so clear (thanks to the little details you picked), that Leo is clearly a man-lover and that Warren and Hypno might as well be married. And I agree so much on Draxum's implications with Lou Jitsu/Splinter too! They do act like exes that have to share custody. And I love how you add the flag from Snow Day at the end! It really sums up well thr topic of the video (gay culture, undertones and acceptance)
Also can't leave without the
#saverottmnt
#unpauserottmnt
Are we not talking about the way Leo stands
I don't know how quite to word it but, in the movie, there is something very DELIGHTFUL about the queer-coded Leo being a the mentor and father-figure to Casey Jones II, the son of the queer-coded Cassandra Jones. Who, after being sent back in time, directly helps save the world by getting Leo to embrace his TRUE self and get over his own hang ups.
As an Asian queer person, and spicifically in China, men were allowed to have gay relationships, but it was seen as a past time and OK as long as you had a family and kids. The sorta only exception was with a Han or Ming Emperor we was openly queer with his social workers. Even taking a nap with one and cutting off his sleeve so it wasn’t uncomfortable to sleep on. That cut sleeve became an old code for queer and others in his court modeled it after his love for him.
god bless creator tweets, without them so much would be lost to the realm of headcanon, but no, we've got canon queer leo and canon autistic donnie.
also i wanna say for no reason that a lot of design choices for leo suggest that he might be a fruity lil trans boi, like how the markings on male red-eared sliders darken as they age, yet im pretty sure future leo's markings are just as bright, hinting that he might be afab :)))))
I've heard about this! I like the idea of it and it's a cool design choice, but honestly I can't even tell if it was on purpose or not since the style and color of the show is so inconsistent, it could very well be that from a design standpoint they just didn't think about it that hard and didn't feel like changing his colors and his shape (like his plastron shape) is coincidental. We can still hold onto hope tho 😩 Thanks for watching!
Now that I'm thinking about how Casey Jones and April O'Neil are typically a couple in different adaptations, I think it would have been a real trip if Casey Jr called April "Mom."
I'm so happy someone finally created a video like this!
I KNEW IT, I KNEW IT, I watched April and Casey on screen together in rise for two seconds and was like “idk why but I ship it”
“What made rise so gay?” Leo. Nuff said.
(Jokes aside this is an awesome video, I love how in depth you went into everything, with all the historical connections and such :D)
I’VE BEEN LOOKING FOR A QUEER ANALYSIS OF ROTTMNT AAAAAAAA thank you lovely 😭 this is very articulated
“Wake up, new heybuwan video!”
"To the everything about Leo٫"
okay that I saw coming
I like this video. As a foreigner who knows a little about US history and history of queerness I knew something new and your analysis of the series is very good. Thank you!! Now it's one of my favourite videos about rise of tmnt
Thank you for identifying and explaining many queer things. I try to be inclusive because I don't like being treated differently for something that is none of other people's business or something I can't change. Having said that I love that there is a projected identity, troupes and that these things have names and history like camp, vogue, starry eyed, rainbow. Really informative with amazing video edits to show exactly what you are referring to. This is a high quality video and amusingly I have no idea who the titles character is.
Also can't say that Leo painted to look like a Greek, bronze statue in the episode of Don Suave, is pretty damn gay/queer in itself.
U were explaining everything so well in the queer coding i forgot this was abt my fav teetles
Honestly watching the show I just KNEW there were little things like this and that’s one of the reasons I love it so much! Rise is honestly probably one the best versions that make me feel safe while watching it as someone who’s not fully out of the closet yet! This video I will be sending to all of my friends so I can make an endless amount of inside jokes