Adding bonkers radar missiles and nerfing multipathing while keeping 16v16 is crazy. Btw use the IR HMD in MiG-29s and Su-27s. It says it has a 10km range but you can usually lock people up to ~20km and then you can switch to radar
There's an option for smaller matches! It's a settings toggle! /s Fuckin why?? Nobody is going to use that. The small match toggle might as well be a placebo.
@@Sol-Orion issue is after having it on all day today and yesterday I haven't had a single match becuse it's only a chance, funnily enough doh I've had mutiple 2.3 matches be 5v5 today
@Likeaworm he's such a cuck for the Russian stuff it's hilarious. There are so many broken Russian vehicles and yet he always shills for the shit ones. It cracks me up.
@@LikeawormHe need encourage ppl play Su27 so he can kill lol. As a Soviet player, i just play rank VII now. Mig19pt, Mig21smt and Mig23MLD still have fun.
They added option for 6-12 players *if there is enough players for this option*. And yet each time i get this 16v16 lobby, where if you just simply divide it, you can get 2 8v8 lobbies. "Not enough players" i guess
It works same as night battles, if there are enough players *who have the option selected* in queue at the exact same time to instantly make a full small lobby, it will create said small lobby. In all cases otherwise it prioritizes big lobbies. In other words same as night battles we will rarely see consistently small matches
@@theflyinggasmask after a couple of days and even without unlocking the Fox 3's I can confirm this. Theres no more big furballs in the center of the map. At least theres that
@@theflyinggasmask idem. I think this meta with EC modes or EC maps and smaller teams would be perfect. But Gaijin doesn't want that. I'll take what I can get.
@@nikolaideianov5092 lmao, any plane is good in any other ways, su-27 still have more missiles and u still can carry very good R-27ER/ET, amraams have longer range wowowowo OP not balanced, what a stupid, they are still not better in any way than R-77 and theres still other stuff in those planes, and russians planes overall should be better at close range than longe range, like in DCS.
If you fly at alt, they can usually be countered pretty easily. The first day was rough, but top tier matches are actually lasting a lot longer with the Fox 3s. People aren't hugging the deck, go left, than proceed into a suicide fur ball.
A trick ive learned to overcome the poor range of the HMD lock is to switch to IRST to lock them (it says 10km but it can lock at higher distances) then switch to radar then fire the missile
Always uses to do this expetially with the mig23ml and it still works great but Jesus Christ anything above 11.7 is just not fun unless you are a us main
@@texasthib2029 Yah-ah, since ARH missiles can meet planes with stock AIM-9Ls and R60s. R27ER is the strongest SARH missile, ofc it's going to do well.
@@texasthib2029 Literally all the enemy has to do is launch their missiles and turn around and you can't do anything about it if you don't also have Fox 3's lmfao. There's of course going to be brainlets that can't even do the bare minimum amount of skill required to use a missile but I really don't believe you were consistently shitting on people.
This has been possibly the least fun update I've ever played with WT. Had a spaded 29SMT so just needed to grind the 77 out, but that alone was so incredibly frustrating I don't think I'll grind any of the new planes until they do something. Almost every match regardless of what I did was take off, a minute later RWR starts screaming at me, and then 2-3 minutes later regardless of altitude, chaffing, notching, going radar-cold, etc I explode.
Legit the only way i've not died in some random missile is the second i get a msl warning. I just turn around and pop chaff for the next 30 seconds. Like i dont ever get to do anything. It feels so boring. Like i just Defend the whole match until its close quarters. This is the Gripen Maybe the F3 Tornado will be decent. As its got a good radar and AIM120Bs. But its still a bus, and starts with 2x9Ls
@@rmshorty11 and that’s not me saying that fox 3s can’t work I’m sure it’ll be such a fun gameplay mechanic in smaller matches of 6v6 or 8v8 but then you run into the problem of getting literally no rewards from that match
It would not have been this painful if the multipathing had not been changed, now it’s simply encouraged to spam all your missiles because you’re almost (and on some maps, completely) guaranteed to get kills
@@bagelmaster2498 Yeah, lobby and map sizes both contribute the most to this problem and it generally seems like it's not a concern for Gaijin right now. I agree that I think it will be fun under the right circumstances.
couldn't agree more with you Defyn, the smaller lobby option not working, the flanker being a kinda mediocre plane against NATO, and the fact that the update wasn't what we were expecting. thanks for putting my thoughts on a video.
As I was hearing some people in sim matches today saying that it is super stronk with god missiles which has a lot g (yeah,reading statcards in WT) while the red lobbies are empty already second or third patch in a row (wonder why, way too strong I guess, so people don't want to play it)
Not people already complaining that Russia is somehow not good AGAIN after ruling air rb with the r27 for how many years the Abrams was only good when the first m1 came out since then every other one has been the exact same tank with a 120 and the f16 was getting slammed by the mig29 when they first came out and then they only became someone equal when the flight model took a hit and I don’t want to hear shit about the “f14 meta” cause you had to be a genuine retard to die by the aim54 back then as it was a terrible missile and only hit people dumb enough to fly straight and literally watch it intercept them
> Gaijin runs playtest > Players universally agree that smaller teamsizes are needed with advanced Fox 3 missiles > Gaijin ignores > Gaijin significantly increases lethality of these missiles by reducing multipathing ???????????? I'm all for multipathing being tweaked, reduced, and even increased for some missiles. But holy shit is top tier awful right now. I think this is the first time ever where im genuinely going to have to step away from top tier.
I stepped away last patch, multipathing turned it into an ground sniffing IRCCM clusterfuck. And while its still a shit show, its at least somewhat playable now.
I highly doubt they’re going to change their premade pay wall. They’ve set up here. Can you imagine trying to grind 12 three and up through this shit? Fairly certain Gaijin sees the amraams as $
While yes the BRs definitely need to change. But honestly I played 17 hours straight yesterday all 13.0 all day. And honestly VERY FEW of my games were anything but 13.0.
@@jeremydeel1514 that will change after a few weeks and there are a few 12.3 that hand aim120 as well. It’s going to be a PAINFUL experience I believe. I have been know to be a pessimistic from time to time lol
@@mathewtheis9139 100% agree but im HOPING by then the dev team will adjust some of the BRs and MAYBE increase max BR to say 13.3 or MAYBE even 13.7.... but im not too hopeful.
I think, that the multipathing change was good, but not for the reasons most would think. The game modes are fundamentally broken for the vehicle we have in game and that not just with this update, they are broken for years. So, why do I think, that it was a good change? I want the matches to be as frustrating and broken as they need to be, that the player base is so pissed off by all this shit, that gaijin has no other option than to finally do something about it. To put it simply: I want to see the world burn, so it can either be rebuild or stay dead.
I agree, sadly too many people out there will just keep mindlessly buying the next top tier $70 prem with no care of what sort of gameplay exists. Gaijin just continually dangling the keys in front of the playerbase.
Yup this comment is exactly what I said before the update dropped. It sucks? Good. Now maybe the stupid ass war thunder community that is constantly tearing itself to pieces pointlessly can stop for 5 seconds and campaign for rb ec with respawns and multiple air fields. It's time to fight like hell for this change. Even if we have to review bomb for it.
Since they nerfed the shit out of Su 27 and Mig because of better missiles before, can we actually get at least good flight models now for them? Su27 and migs were all about manouverability and incredible flight performance yet they are like bricks in wt.
Basically all previous models are getting absolutely bodied rn by fox 3s. Planes with fox 3s dont even need to keep the lock to erase you from reality, since multipathing got reduced you cannot even hide from them and due to 16v16 or even 12v12, it is basically impossible to evade
Don't you just love how "NATO players bad" mfs accuse half the playerbase of being braindead when one update gives them something too strong and just casually forget all the times some updates gave Russia some of the most broken stuff in the game
I mean genuinely, both sides are shit. NATO players moaned about the R-27ER (which was no doubt the best bvr missile in the game for quite some time), russian players responded essentially with "lmao cope", now the reverse is happening. Both sides blow ass
@@Fatdog223 There is, quite literally, not a single aspect in which the Su-27SM is better than the F-15C. Everything about it is significantly worse: it has an incomparably worse FM, 2.5 times less countermeasures and carries less ARHs AND they're much shittier. The ONLY thing it has going for it is that its max ARH loadout doesn't sacrifice any IR missiles but what good is that when it can't make it into WVR and when it does it's a flying fucking brick?
I am glad that I have DEFYN on my side. Reddit sweats seem to love the update. But I say that it's not fun knowing that you're going to lose when you have US, Japan and France on the enemy team. I loved the MiG-29G, now I hate it. It essentially broke the game.
Russian aircraft mains crying about having the shittiest radar missiles after 2 years of dominating any engagement beyond 5kms is incredibly ironic and expected. Not a ton of fun to be completely outmatched is it?
@@jaxastro3072 I don't know what game that you've been playing, but Fox-2's have been dominating for the past few years and not SARHs. Remind me again how many players flew the flanker during Gaijin's recent tournament when prizes were on the line?
Simply Mig-29SMT feels waaaaay better to fly than Su-27SM in this update. SMT is more agile and got better radar. And after this update, R-73 is simply outdated cuz 80% of the match you dont need it and its just dead-weight
welcome to the modern air combat where maneuverability and short range dogfighting is about as relevant as gun was in era of SARH and IR guided missiles ... good to have but most of the time just dead weight ...
@@Asghaad ita not about modern combat range. Its about R-73 itself. R-73 is so easy to flare so I would rather bring R-77 and get rid off R-73s. And R-73s are not shining any more cuz their thrust vectoring is not needed anymore in 80% of the matches. But in F-15C its a completely different story. I always bring 2 9Ms or more because its so resistant to flares, and even if you know how to flare it, its up to luck sometimes.
Want to fix this? Add a guns-only mode and the option for 6v6 or 12v12 servers that the PLAYER THEMSELF can toggle on/off whenever they want. It would take literally ten seconds to do but Gaijin needs pool floaties to eat soup so obviously it will never happen.
The su27 is a total bus in reality too? The thing is the size of a b17. Irl you get maybe one hard pull and then it turns into a brick. Won't get maneuverable flankers until the SU30/35 come with 3d vectoring
@@jaxastro3072I mean it’s not a bus IRL, yes its large, but like the F-15 it’s a massive lifting body. In game, it can’t even get one good turn in lol. Even aircraft like the MiG-29 which is much smaller, and still quite a massive lifting body cannot do a singular good turn against an F-16, F-15, or even F-14. Flight models aren’t as important nowadays but crappy ones make planes miserable to fly.
@@jaxastro3072you couldn't be more wrong. The su 27 was built to counter the f 15, it wouldn't be able to do that if it had poor flight performance. Real flight data puts the Su 27 and F 15 very close in performance, both in the rate, and AOA.
@@jaxastro3072 where are you getting these ideas? Have you read anything or listened to anything on the su-27?? it's a SUPER MANEUVERABLE fighter meant to counter the f15! What about that makes you think it's a "bus"???
Back then: ussr jets = great radar missile, great IR missile, worst FM. worst Radar. = 2 pros, 2 cons Back then: usa jets = decent radar missile, great IR missile, great FM. great Radar. = 3 pros, 1cons USA main CRYING about r27er (the only pro of the ussr jets over the usa) -How to counter the r27er ? -Fly close to the ground, it will lose lock easily due to the trash radar and get close use aim9m's or dogfight with your superior FM. Done Now: ussr jets = terrible fox 3, great IR missile(useless in this state of gameplay), worst FM, worst Radar, = 1 pros, 3 cons (only pro is r73 but useless) Now: usa jets = best fox 3, great IR missile(useless in this state of gameplay), best FM, best Radar, = 4 pros How to counter AIM120s? Fly close to the grou..... oh waitt ! Even if i somehow manage to get closer i still have my trash FM ! And now they are saying that the 3 pros that the usa jets have now over the ussr jets is the same like when the ussr jets had 1 pro over the usa jets back then.
gaijin really just gave a middle finger to all ussr players by giving them shit radars, flight models and missile while giving the best flight model,radar and missile to america cant play any br bracket that can include a fox 3 carrier the r77 loses energy so fast a f16 can outrun it at 7 km by turning slightly
I mostly agree with you on the whole multipath situation I feel like an EC with respawns (and maybe multiple spawns points) on big maps would better fit ARH missiles Current wt maps are mostly like ace combat and less like DCS
very true they need lesser players, bigger maps and objectives that are cluttered in groups but each group of objective is very far out of the other objective and spread out airfields with capped player spawn count, like 4 for each airfield
Then it will be the most f*cking OP missile ig until 120D is added cause it is better than 120C-5 its better than C-7, better than 77-1 and almost on par with 77M so I’d love to see that missile ig but definitely not rn, for now it would be balanced to give em 77-1
@@Likeaworm wasn't produced but the r77 is like the r27. A modular missile meaning that they can't develop new parts for the missile and modify the old missiles
I’m not looking forward to the stock grind again, also doesn’t make sense to have non fox 3 planes going up against fox 3 capable. I was really hoping for 13.7 at the very least or 14.0
Well, in RB it is possible but hard to play in 12.0-12.7 planes vs 13.0 (you’re defensive 99% of time) but in sim any plane without fox-3’s is completely useless cause instead of adding 12.3-13.0 bracket they added 11.7-13.0 bracket so all 12.0 planes face only and only 13.0 while having 30 pops of flares, no IRCCM missiles, no fox-3’s and in some cases (soviet jets) have completely useless RWR which is sad
Multipathing cutoff is not 60 meters btw. Ive gotten multiple aim7m kills at 35 and even 30 meters enemy height. And this was flying strsight at them, headon.
Funny how bad toptier became once multipath was reduced (as everyone with half a brain knew would happen), I am DREADING stock grinding anything at 12-13.0 now, or even at F14A BR range too...
On the flipside, pretty much everyone who actually played the test event with the old multipathing values (including Defyn) said that as long as it stayed like that then ARH missiles weren't going to affect gameplay at all in most cases.
Have to say i felt this disheartened after such a short time after the update drops. I usually play air RB for a few weeks after a major update but after 2 Days i feel like im done already. The meta with the new Missiles is just not fun whatsoever. Shame but kinda expected
The R77 does have quite a but more drag than the AIM-120 irl so it makes sense. But the R77-1 And AIM-120C-5 are in the files, F-16C and SU-27SM can carry those missiles, so maybe one day they will get them? As far I'm aware those missiles and pretty on par with each tracking, tracking, range, and maneuverability, although the R77-1 still has more drag than the AIM-120C-5 but I think they increased the burn time to increase the range.
nope , r77 gets worse the longer it flies , but in like a 15km fight r77 would outperform aim120 , because r77 only gets worse at transonic speeds, so in a 15km fight it probably wont even go lower than mach 2 , but in game r77 is worse than aim120 at all speeds.
@hemendraravi4787 your wrong, I've been watching the R77 in replays, it goes below mach 2 past 12km, I saw this happen at 5000 feet, so the flanker launched at me from 10 miles away, the missile reach mach 4, half way into the missile was already at mach 2, past that it went below mach 2, like it's bad, and so far it's easy to notch, but not as easy as the PL-12, like the PL-12 imo is the worst missile in game agaisnt chaff.
@hemendraravi4787 oh I did, you sound like someone who thinks they know what they are talking about when they don't, also it has more drag because of its back stabiliser design, and kanards, its tracking irl is worse than the AIM-120a/b and look ingame same thing, and also clearly ypu didn't read what I wrote, because I specifically said your wrong and that it does infact lose energy to go under mach 2, so one you just made no sense, two your wasting my time, and three do your research and testing. As for the AIM-120C-5 and R-77-1 being on par with each other, that's in range and tracking, maneuverability still goes to the R-77-1.
@@WOLFER. dude grind fins have significantly less drag than planar fins , at higher super sonic speeds , thats one of the main reason why they used it, it performs better at higher speeds go and read those research papers , that clearly state grid fins have an advantage at higher speeds. do your research and testing ? wtf are you yapping about ? im talking about real life , in war thunder r77 has the same drag at mach 4 and at mach 1 , in real life at mach 4 r77 would have much much less drag , while at mach 1 they pretty much become an air brake.
I mean even dealing with Semi Actives fired at you at a certain point is near impossible now. Even if you can multipath it, it lands so damn close you get splash damage either way. It's either that or turn to attempt to notch and just give your ass to the enemy where they will stay glued to you for half an hour if an IR missile doesn't kill you. The whole actual BVR thing just simply doesn't work with the current nature of WT in ARB.
I'll be honest I do actually like the shift in tactics and strategy that the reduced multipathing has created (I thought I would absolutely hate it), but the game mode is in desperate need of change to make the experience actually enjoyable. Grinding the stock mig-29G has been pretty miserable.
I think the "new meta" is just a reflection of real life, guys. Lets face it; in modern warfare, USA comes out on top (especially when you take away the buffs/nerfs of Russian and American aircraft).
how ? su25sm3 is still better as it gets thermals + 30km missiles , while su27sm gets a shit camera + no thermals. f16c/su25sm3 are better cas than su27sm. if they added sapsan pod to su27sm then it would be better than sm3.
this update would be perfect if 1 the R-77 get it's normal range (there is no one on the internet suggesting that the AIM-120A has more range) 2 the maximal number of players per match are cap to 12
those grid fins are terrible for drag down low, but the R-77 should at least have more range than the 120A/B at higher altitudes (like above 5km?) and i don’t know if it got that either definitely the maximum player count should decrease, though good old ARB EC would be ideal
@@aether-gaming. grids are terrible when turning at transonic speeds, at supersonic speeds they have some advantages (the people who designed the thing are not stupid, they put them there for a reason). In game the R-77 is simply modelled badly
@@UUUU-dn9wz absolutely, but given how most fights in ARB take place down low anyway (sigh…) that drag will always be a problem i just don’t know whether they actually modeled the drag dropping off at high altitude / supersonic speeds (probably not)
@@aether-gaming. I do have the Mig-29SMT with the R-77 and I also have the F-17C with the AIM-120A. I tested both of them in very high altitude ~10km I am confident with the AIM-120 to shot at 40km and with R-77 only to a max of 30km. Currently the amram has a better max range than the R-77 in every situation even when it doesn't have to turn (in head ons)
My lobbies I have a completely different experience. I barely see good BVR jousting, people still hugging the ground, and my AMRAAMs still miss an awful lot. People basically dive into the planet whenever they are alerted for a missile.
I personally don’t really mind the r77, though its biggest issue seems to be in the way they programmed its autopilot. It likes to turn way too late and then ends up trying to basically chase the target, together with it wobbling most of the time it’s in flight
if you dont know, the "chicken fence" fins also produce A LOT of drag, which is why the range lacks so much compared to others, sadly it took Vympel (Russian Raytheon in a nutshell) many years to realise the "chicken fence" wasn't worth it and eventually removed them on later variants like the R/K-77M
Lattice fins give it better maneuvrability and lower drag at supersonic speeds, making it harder to dodge at short-medium range. Variants with a longer burn time have been developed to extend the range It's not like we can trust WT to model them accurately anyway
Just from observation, I think the main problem with the R-77's range has to do with its guidance. It wiggles away all its speed, which is not helped with the higher induced drag from the grid-fins. The missiles range should be more in-line with Aim-120A/B in most cases, but Gaijin hasn't gotten around to fixing this missile yet, as it appears to be the same as on dev server. AAM-4 used to be the single worst radar missile on dev before they fixed it on live server. Now, it's possibly the best ARH missile in the game as of now for high-altitudes. R-Darter/Derby, MICA-EM, PL-12, and R-77 appear to have not yet gotten their fix. Aim-120A/B and AAM-4 feel mostly finished.
The R-77 might be somewhat bad, but that thing will chase you for like 45 seconds, I swear it is terrifying just hearing the Warning and praying it won't hit you
but in dcs in a 20km fight r77 will hit faster than aim120 c5 , but in a 40km fight r77 is much slower , in war thunder r77 will be slower at all ranges.
Spain, Pyrenees, and Mysterious Valley are the only playable maps right now on account of actually having terrain cover that you can play around. The fact that maps like Golan Heights, Vietnam, Kamchatka, and City (my previous favourite map ever) are all unplayable boils down to just how little terrain there is to exploit to make games interesting. Matches go one of two ways: you're on a map with terrain and you have fun, or you're on a map with no terrain and it's a coinflip whether you die from a plane that's 25km away. I like BVR, I like simulator stuff, but this is insufferable.
Don’t forget the new f-15c and su-27sm whatever are not the best version of each. There is a f-15c late which just like it’s brother the strike eagle, can carry 10 aim-120s, 6 side winders, and 2 fuel tanks in one load out, and the best su-27 has canards and r-80’s I believe. So there are worse
Only in a game can a fucking f15c with 2 fuel tanks and like half of its missiles outdogfight a su27 or a mig29, im actually sick of this in general, dcs is kinda realistic but even that is meh, i just wish there was a realistic game that was even semi fun, e.g. give the f15c the slightly better radar and missiles, BUT DONT FUCKING TELL ME THAT IT OUTDOGFIGHTS MY MOTHERFUCKING SU27 ON 15MINS OF FUEL
@@shahramtondkarmobarakie1824 The 'basic' Su-27s aren't among them though. A lot of casual people see the entire family as being agile or very maneuverable but the fact is that they really weren't until they got thrust vectoring. Sure, they could be dangerous in a dogfight but they really weren't anything to write home about performance wise in any metric as they weren't better than average in any metric. They needed thrust vectoring to be good at all. That said they are "underperforming" relatively but the issue is that most things are still pulling more than they should. Case in point Mirages and JAS39s basically had completely fictional FMs. Mirages are a lot better now and the Gripens still need a lot of work. F-15s and F-16s could do with a turn rate nerf too as they are better than their historical best sustained turn rates. In general, based on any credible leaked info, the Su-27s aren't too far off in game though. They are about in the 90 percentile range in terms of flight performance accuracy. People that think that they should be OMG maneuverable jets simply don't have any expectations connected with reality in any way, shape or form. The 'basic" Su-27s really weren't that special.
@rainsilent first off, you have no clue what you're talking about. Su 27 was and is a very formidable dogfighting platform even before thrust vectoring. The Su 27 was designed and built to counter the F 15, and through flight data and manuals, all data points to the Su 27 and F 15 being very close in performance, in both the rate and AOA. As for the in game Su 27, the reason it feels so trash is due to the Oswald efficiency being tanked in the flight model, which results in an insane amount of drag at low speed. A cc reviewed a side by side of a real Su 27 and the in game Su 27 doing a sustained turn, and it revealed that the in game Su 27 bleeds 2x more speed than real life.
There’s a few bug reports open for the Su27SM and J11A regarding radar inaccuracies. It’s been open since the dev server opened. Hopefully gaijin fixes them. Also su27SM FM bug report been open for months still no word from devs.
Its kinda simple to learn basic bvr tactics in pretty much anything, im not very good at dcs but i know how to fight in bvr, if anything the only pain in the ass part is using the radar on more full fidelity aircraft
i mean, this could make it so that planes with shittier fox 3 missiles may have to divert to other tactics, like using terrain until they merge where in a dogfight scenario the russian fighters excell at too. but of course warthunder's enemy highlight system and just the general gameplay fucks that up
Seems like the addition of BVR missiles strongly encourages players to buy upgrades with GE instead of stock grinding. Too lucrative for Gaijin to resist.
the city map actually became one of the best maps on this update IMO, IR missile carriers even have a fighting chance in there against the wall of F16C's,also the fact that US planes have 4-8 missile datalink channels while other planes have 1-2 is insane 7:20 cunttrails
Fully agree that top BR are all about positioning with requires less skill than energy fighting in props. .... simple .... dont play those BRs like I dont. I would enjoy if gaijin added WW1 stuff as new reserve though, would be neat.
@DEFYN can you make a video about the stock grind of the Tornado F3 Late, F4F ICE and nee Sea Harrier. I think the state of those aircraft deserves talking about.
Play J-8F pls, gets 2xPL-12s and finally has drop pods now. Its kinda funny to fly especially in downtiers, and is pretty unique with its HMD, great RWR and fantastic Fox-3s at 12.3
the game was never balanced in the first place. people are essentially mad that the flanker has to actually do flanker things and know u have to worry about a certain set of jets instead of just being the best in its tiers like it honestly always been for russia
Biggest issue i had, and that me and my friends atleast agreed on is before when the ER was OP asf, it always felt that atleast if you were in a NATO jet you could beat the russian in a dogfight, and it kinda was a balance of better missiles vs better prefomance (im not a NATO jet player but i asked soem friends and they agreed on this so dont hate me im coping), but now you just kinda die with shit missiles shit radar and shit flight preformance, i just cant reccomend anyone to grind out the Su-27 cuz it literally does nothing better then the F-15 unless you love the plane like me
One of the most annoying parts of top tier (for me) is very clearly displayed here: doing everything correctly and still not getting kills because other people's missile hits the enemy just one second before yours
If the 77 has trouble keeping up, no wonder I've been struggling to get any ranged shots with the mica. The 120 does seem like the best all around F3. It's also on the best chassis.
War Thunder trying not to aggressively power creep while breaking multiple things in an update, impossible challenge.
I like to imagine that they broke the flares and radars on purpose so the new missiles seem more capable
Oh, Hello there! But yeah, gaijin NEEDS to fuck up something each update.
The radars are broken? haven't heard of this one @@Namkify
Idk why gaijin changed multi path for RB. We (sim community) asked for it to be changed only for sim.
Content creator that makes AAA quality cinematics
Adding bonkers radar missiles and nerfing multipathing while keeping 16v16 is crazy.
Btw use the IR HMD in MiG-29s and Su-27s. It says it has a 10km range but you can usually lock people up to ~20km and then you can switch to radar
Not to mention breaking flares and chaff and making the stock grind basically impossible
@@r6sm043gaijin when they give cumulative round and 2 dog poo missile at top tier are really asking for hate for themselves
There's an option for smaller matches! It's a settings toggle! /s
Fuckin why?? Nobody is going to use that. The small match toggle might as well be a placebo.
@@Sol-Orion issue is after having it on all day today and yesterday I haven't had a single match becuse it's only a chance, funnily enough doh I've had mutiple 2.3 matches be 5v5 today
the stock grind is the worst part, no radar missiles and no chaff in matches where radar missiles are now very strong....
I can hear the pain in your greeting lmao
Wtf 18h?
@@dorianhak7206yeah what lol
bro came from future
@@NinjasimpmunkI assume the video was released to members before it was publicly released
Patreon early access probably
next warthunder patch should skip the whole f22 stuff and go straight to ufo and intergalactic warfare
You mean bring back the UFOs
"Let's skip the F22 stuff and go straight to the F22 stuff"
Gaijin: ok, got it. 11.7
13.7*
@@raketny_hvost lol maybe in a year. Gaijin is allergic to BR decompression.
@@DaisiesTC you wont believe it
Matawg punching the air when anybody slanders the SU27 or anything attached to it.
Lmao that video yesterday cracked me up. “Su27sm new meta” 😂
@Likeaworm he's such a cuck for the Russian stuff it's hilarious. There are so many broken Russian vehicles and yet he always shills for the shit ones. It cracks me up.
That dude is properly delulu.
stopped watching that guy, cant stand him anymore
@@LikeawormHe need encourage ppl play Su27 so he can kill lol. As a Soviet player, i just play rank VII now. Mig19pt, Mig21smt and Mig23MLD still have fun.
They added option for 6-12 players *if there is enough players for this option*. And yet each time i get this 16v16 lobby, where if you just simply divide it, you can get 2 8v8 lobbies. "Not enough players" i guess
I have gotten the small lobby tons of times so far. Imagine the same thing as the other mode, but it ends even faster.
Ppl are still fur-balling 🤦
Read as not enough servers.
Small indie company.
@@ricardohumildebrabo 😂
It works same as night battles, if there are enough players *who have the option selected* in queue at the exact same time to instantly make a full small lobby, it will create said small lobby. In all cases otherwise it prioritizes big lobbies. In other words same as night battles we will rarely see consistently small matches
Blud is not happy with the update
its mid
Filler update
It’s a pretty rushed update, even when they took forever
hands down the worst update balance wise since harrier gr1
One of the worst updates in war thunder history
Top tier is unplayable right now. You get up and there is 100+ misiles in the air in a map of the size of monaco basically. Its imposible
You must be dogshit cause I’m getting 4 kills a match minimum lol
Its at least more playable now than it was before the patch.
@@theflyinggasmask after a couple of days and even without unlocking the Fox 3's I can confirm this. Theres no more big furballs in the center of the map. At least theres that
@@ale69420 Yeah, was hoping for permanent smaller player counts and EC maps, but I'll take what i can get at this point...
@@theflyinggasmask idem. I think this meta with EC modes or EC maps and smaller teams would be perfect. But Gaijin doesn't want that. I'll take what I can get.
You wanted balance, then we should've never gotten Fox-3's.
Or they could just decompress.
There never was balance
R27er vs aim7f/m(same in files)
@@nikolaideianov5092 lmao, any plane is good in any other ways, su-27 still have more missiles and u still can carry very good R-27ER/ET, amraams have longer range wowowowo OP not balanced, what a stupid, they are still not better in any way than R-77 and theres still other stuff in those planes, and russians planes overall should be better at close range than longe range, like in DCS.
If you fly at alt, they can usually be countered pretty easily. The first day was rough, but top tier matches are actually lasting a lot longer with the Fox 3s. People aren't hugging the deck, go left, than proceed into a suicide fur ball.
@@SuiSideex Did you really just say the AMRAAM is not better than the R-77 lmfao
A trick ive learned to overcome the poor range of the HMD lock is to switch to IRST to lock them (it says 10km but it can lock at higher distances) then switch to radar then fire the missile
this is the way 🙏
you can get locks on hot jets with IR HMD and turn your 10km range lock into like, a 25km range one. sensor fusion is OP honestly
Growling Sidewinder did that in a video two days ago about Su27 vs F22.
@@ivand5699 Yeah well Yawning Snorewinder is in his pyjamas and just drink a glass of warm milk so he's going to bed because he's sleepy
Always uses to do this expetially with the mig23ml and it still works great but Jesus Christ anything above 11.7 is just not fun unless you are a us main
Planes with no fox 3s need to be in a different bracket entirely
Nah I was still shitting on every idiot spamming their fox3s with my 2r7ers tryna unlock the r77
@@texasthib2029 Yah-ah, since ARH missiles can meet planes with stock AIM-9Ls and R60s. R27ER is the strongest SARH missile, ofc it's going to do well.
@@texasthib2029 Literally all the enemy has to do is launch their missiles and turn around and you can't do anything about it if you don't also have Fox 3's lmfao.
There's of course going to be brainlets that can't even do the bare minimum amount of skill required to use a missile but I really don't believe you were consistently shitting on people.
This has been possibly the least fun update I've ever played with WT. Had a spaded 29SMT so just needed to grind the 77 out, but that alone was so incredibly frustrating I don't think I'll grind any of the new planes until they do something.
Almost every match regardless of what I did was take off, a minute later RWR starts screaming at me, and then 2-3 minutes later regardless of altitude, chaffing, notching, going radar-cold, etc I explode.
Legit the only way i've not died in some random missile is the second i get a msl warning. I just turn around and pop chaff for the next 30 seconds. Like i dont ever get to do anything. It feels so boring. Like i just Defend the whole match until its close quarters. This is the Gripen
Maybe the F3 Tornado will be decent. As its got a good radar and AIM120Bs. But its still a bus, and starts with 2x9Ls
I fully expected that this would be the case when fox3s came, the game is just not designed for the fox 3 game play in mind
Spot on and still so many players have been clamoring for them.
@@rmshorty11 and that’s not me saying that fox 3s can’t work I’m sure it’ll be such a fun gameplay mechanic in smaller matches of 6v6 or 8v8 but then you run into the problem of getting literally no rewards from that match
It would not have been this painful if the multipathing had not been changed, now it’s simply encouraged to spam all your missiles because you’re almost (and on some maps, completely) guaranteed to get kills
Well, that is what happens when people wish for new features like fox3s instead of bug fixing and balancing changes.
@@bagelmaster2498 Yeah, lobby and map sizes both contribute the most to this problem and it generally seems like it's not a concern for Gaijin right now. I agree that I think it will be fun under the right circumstances.
couldn't agree more with you Defyn, the smaller lobby option not working, the flanker being a kinda mediocre plane against NATO, and the fact that the update wasn't what we were expecting.
thanks for putting my thoughts on a video.
As I was hearing some people in sim matches today saying that it is super stronk with god missiles which has a lot g (yeah,reading statcards in WT) while the red lobbies are empty already second or third patch in a row (wonder why, way too strong I guess, so people don't want to play it)
Not people already complaining that Russia is somehow not good AGAIN after ruling air rb with the r27 for how many years the Abrams was only good when the first m1 came out since then every other one has been the exact same tank with a 120 and the f16 was getting slammed by the mig29 when they first came out and then they only became someone equal when the flight model took a hit and I don’t want to hear shit about the “f14 meta” cause you had to be a genuine retard to die by the aim54 back then as it was a terrible missile and only hit people dumb enough to fly straight and literally watch it intercept them
Ye, I still think the Su-27 flight model needs improving. Top tier in general is also just really boring to play, even worse with this update.
Hope these next few videos of top tier don't melt your brain too much
The man has a youtube channel dedicated to the game, his brain is probably a chunky soup by now
> Gaijin runs playtest
> Players universally agree that smaller teamsizes are needed with advanced Fox 3 missiles
> Gaijin ignores
> Gaijin significantly increases lethality of these missiles by reducing multipathing
????????????
I'm all for multipathing being tweaked, reduced, and even increased for some missiles. But holy shit is top tier awful right now. I think this is the first time ever where im genuinely going to have to step away from top tier.
I stepped away last patch, multipathing turned it into an ground sniffing IRCCM clusterfuck. And while its still a shit show, its at least somewhat playable now.
I highly doubt they’re going to change their premade pay wall. They’ve set up here. Can you imagine trying to grind 12 three and up through this shit? Fairly certain Gaijin sees the amraams as $
While yes the BRs definitely need to change. But honestly I played 17 hours straight yesterday all 13.0 all day. And honestly VERY FEW of my games were anything but 13.0.
@@jeremydeel1514 that will change after a few weeks and there are a few 12.3 that hand aim120 as well. It’s going to be a PAINFUL experience I believe. I have been know to be a pessimistic from time to time lol
@@mathewtheis9139 100% agree but im HOPING by then the dev team will adjust some of the BRs and MAYBE increase max BR to say 13.3 or MAYBE even 13.7.... but im not too hopeful.
I think, that the multipathing change was good, but not for the reasons most would think.
The game modes are fundamentally broken for the vehicle we have in game and that not just with this update, they are broken for years. So, why do I think, that it was a good change? I want the matches to be as frustrating and broken as they need to be, that the player base is so pissed off by all this shit, that gaijin has no other option than to finally do something about it.
To put it simply: I want to see the world burn, so it can either be rebuild or stay dead.
playing 6d chess
@@John-Johnsonreal I hope you also bought stocks in torches and pitchforks ;)
I agree, sadly too many people out there will just keep mindlessly buying the next top tier $70 prem with no care of what sort of gameplay exists. Gaijin just continually dangling the keys in front of the playerbase.
Accelerationism
Yup this comment is exactly what I said before the update dropped. It sucks? Good. Now maybe the stupid ass war thunder community that is constantly tearing itself to pieces pointlessly can stop for 5 seconds and campaign for rb ec with respawns and multiple air fields. It's time to fight like hell for this change. Even if we have to review bomb for it.
Since they nerfed the shit out of Su 27 and Mig because of better missiles before, can we actually get at least good flight models now for them? Su27 and migs were all about manouverability and incredible flight performance yet they are like bricks in wt.
Basically all previous models are getting absolutely bodied rn by fox 3s. Planes with fox 3s dont even need to keep the lock to erase you from reality, since multipathing got reduced you cannot even hide from them and due to 16v16 or even 12v12, it is basically impossible to evade
But its ok because us players got their promised point and click spamraam adventure 😊
@@farmazoniarz common wt community L
ER vs 7M reversed, except this time the bad missile also gets the horrible flight model. B-but russian bias?
Not only worse flight model, worse radar and the F15 radar can guide 8 120's at the same time, but the flanker can only guide 2 at the same time!
ER/T still use their dual stage booster as a single one right? Genuinely asking
@@Ninjasimpmunk Yes, it does.
AIM-120A vs R-77 is 100000000x fairer than R-27ER vs AIM-7F (there’s no difference in game between the F and M)
Yes russian bias , le russian bad no one bad an eye but le Nato le bad ??!?!??!?!?! That UNACCEPTABLE !!!!
NATO players can get an F-15 at 8.0 and still find something to complain about whenever a warsaw pact aircraft/tank does semi-decent
Don't you just love how "NATO players bad" mfs accuse half the playerbase of being braindead when one update gives them something too strong and just casually forget all the times some updates gave Russia some of the most broken stuff in the game
@@ahta5708russia and the US fighting over who gets the more broken vehicle in the patch
@@stormjet814lol right, nice to just sit back and spectate while other nations still get neglected
@@ahta5708my brother in Christ have you not seen how German players behave??
I mean genuinely, both sides are shit. NATO players moaned about the R-27ER (which was no doubt the best bvr missile in the game for quite some time), russian players responded essentially with "lmao cope", now the reverse is happening. Both sides blow ass
Btw russia never used the r77, they used the r77-1 wich is better in all ways
Meanwhile the mig 29G and the F4F ICE at 12.7, i already want the next update...
Last i checked the ICE was 11.7
@@janomomo153 for ground not air
@@amari2509 makes sense, i'm not used to paying attention to what preset i have selected when checking BR yet
Hopefully they'll pull a 9-17->9-19 conversion again and make the SM into the SM3 (stronger engines, 2 more pylons).
So the su27 needs 12 missiles and a better flight model because r77 is slightly worse than NATO?
@@Fatdog223 There is, quite literally, not a single aspect in which the Su-27SM is better than the F-15C. Everything about it is significantly worse: it has an incomparably worse FM, 2.5 times less countermeasures and carries less ARHs AND they're much shittier. The ONLY thing it has going for it is that its max ARH loadout doesn't sacrifice any IR missiles but what good is that when it can't make it into WVR and when it does it's a flying fucking brick?
I am glad that I have DEFYN on my side. Reddit sweats seem to love the update. But I say that it's not fun knowing that you're going to lose when you have US, Japan and France on the enemy team. I loved the MiG-29G, now I hate it. It essentially broke the game.
Russian aircraft mains crying about having the shittiest radar missiles after 2 years of dominating any engagement beyond 5kms is incredibly ironic and expected. Not a ton of fun to be completely outmatched is it?
Russian mains when they arent completely OP anymore
@@jaxastro3072are you stupid? Only idiots would want the game to be imbalanced and one sided lmfao. It’s not even what OP is complaining about.
cry some more. just be better at the game
@@jaxastro3072 I don't know what game that you've been playing, but Fox-2's have been dominating for the past few years and not SARHs. Remind me again how many players flew the flanker during Gaijin's recent tournament when prizes were on the line?
Simply Mig-29SMT feels waaaaay better to fly than Su-27SM in this update. SMT is more agile and got better radar. And after this update, R-73 is simply outdated cuz 80% of the match you dont need it and its just dead-weight
welcome to the modern air combat where maneuverability and short range dogfighting is about as relevant as gun was in era of SARH and IR guided missiles ... good to have but most of the time just dead weight ...
@@Asghaad ita not about modern combat range. Its about R-73 itself. R-73 is so easy to flare so I would rather bring R-77 and get rid off R-73s. And R-73s are not shining any more cuz their thrust vectoring is not needed anymore in 80% of the matches. But in F-15C its a completely different story. I always bring 2 9Ms or more because its so resistant to flares, and even if you know how to flare it, its up to luck sometimes.
Want to fix this? Add a guns-only mode and the option for 6v6 or 12v12 servers that the PLAYER THEMSELF can toggle on/off whenever they want. It would take literally ten seconds to do but Gaijin needs pool floaties to eat soup so obviously it will never happen.
I hate how the SU-27 is a total bus in this game
The su27 is a total bus in reality too? The thing is the size of a b17. Irl you get maybe one hard pull and then it turns into a brick. Won't get maneuverable flankers until the SU30/35 come with 3d vectoring
@@jaxastro3072I mean it’s not a bus IRL, yes its large, but like the F-15 it’s a massive lifting body.
In game, it can’t even get one good turn in lol.
Even aircraft like the MiG-29 which is much smaller, and still quite a massive lifting body cannot do a singular good turn against an F-16, F-15, or even F-14.
Flight models aren’t as important nowadays but crappy ones make planes miserable to fly.
@@Boris_The_Turtle How do you know it's not a bus IRL?
@@jaxastro3072you couldn't be more wrong. The su 27 was built to counter the f 15, it wouldn't be able to do that if it had poor flight performance. Real flight data puts the Su 27 and F 15 very close in performance, both in the rate, and AOA.
@@jaxastro3072 where are you getting these ideas? Have you read anything or listened to anything on the su-27?? it's a SUPER MANEUVERABLE fighter meant to counter the f15! What about that makes you think it's a "bus"???
The only thing the top tier russian planes had going for them was better radar missiles :( now they don't even have that.
They weren't just better, they outclassed everything in NATO arsenal for more than a year.
Sucks to suck
Back then: ussr jets = great radar missile, great IR missile, worst FM. worst Radar. = 2 pros, 2 cons
Back then: usa jets = decent radar missile, great IR missile, great FM. great Radar. = 3 pros, 1cons
USA main CRYING about r27er (the only pro of the ussr jets over the usa)
-How to counter the r27er ? -Fly close to the ground, it will lose lock easily due to the trash radar and get close use aim9m's or dogfight with your superior FM. Done
Now: ussr jets = terrible fox 3, great IR missile(useless in this state of gameplay), worst FM, worst Radar, = 1 pros, 3 cons (only pro is r73 but useless)
Now: usa jets = best fox 3, great IR missile(useless in this state of gameplay), best FM, best Radar, = 4 pros
How to counter AIM120s? Fly close to the grou..... oh waitt ! Even if i somehow manage to get closer i still have my trash FM !
And now they are saying that the 3 pros that the usa jets have now over the ussr jets is the same like when the ussr jets had 1 pro over the usa jets back then.
"And that's the plane in a nutshell!" Had me cackling for 5 minutes
gaijin really just gave a middle finger to all ussr players by giving them shit radars, flight models and missile while giving the best flight model,radar and missile to america cant play any br bracket that can include a fox 3 carrier
the r77 loses energy so fast a f16 can outrun it at 7 km by turning slightly
NATO has better flight models and better radar, better missile. Huge In SIM, it is a challenge.
Who could've expected this?
I mostly agree with you on the whole multipath situation
I feel like an EC with respawns (and maybe multiple spawns points) on big maps would better fit ARH missiles
Current wt maps are mostly like ace combat and less like DCS
very true they need lesser players, bigger maps and objectives that are cluttered in groups but each group of objective is very far out of the other objective and spread out airfields with capped player spawn count, like 4 for each airfield
Unpopular opinion: Give them R-27EA (R-27ER w/ R-77 seeker)
Then it will be the most f*cking OP missile ig until 120D is added cause it is better than 120C-5 its better than C-7, better than 77-1 and almost on par with 77M so I’d love to see that missile ig but definitely not rn, for now it would be balanced to give em 77-1
@@СергейНикольский-я2цusa copeium
@@СергейНикольский-я2ц The 27EA has a max range of 120km while the 77-1 has 110km of range and the 77-m has around 200km of range
Was the R77-T ever produced? Would be cool to have the IR version.
@@Likeaworm wasn't produced but the r77 is like the r27. A modular missile meaning that they can't develop new parts for the missile and modify the old missiles
I’m not looking forward to the stock grind again, also doesn’t make sense to have non fox 3 planes going up against fox 3 capable. I was really hoping for 13.7 at the very least or 14.0
Well, in RB it is possible but hard to play in 12.0-12.7 planes vs 13.0 (you’re defensive 99% of time) but in sim any plane without fox-3’s is completely useless cause instead of adding 12.3-13.0 bracket they added 11.7-13.0 bracket so all 12.0 planes face only and only 13.0 while having 30 pops of flares, no IRCCM missiles, no fox-3’s and in some cases (soviet jets) have completely useless RWR which is sad
This being at the same br as f-15c a better plane in every way is crazy
Multipathing cutoff is not 60 meters btw. Ive gotten multiple aim7m kills at 35 and even 30 meters enemy height. And this was flying strsight at them, headon.
Funny how bad toptier became once multipath was reduced (as everyone with half a brain knew would happen), I am DREADING stock grinding anything at 12-13.0 now, or even at F14A BR range too...
On the flipside, pretty much everyone who actually played the test event with the old multipathing values (including Defyn) said that as long as it stayed like that then ARH missiles weren't going to affect gameplay at all in most cases.
Have to say i felt this disheartened after such a short time after the update drops. I usually play air RB for a few weeks after a major update but after 2 Days i feel like im done already. The meta with the new Missiles is just not fun whatsoever. Shame but kinda expected
Okay, bye dickhead.
we need 13.7 now
NOW
i can't play in mig29G anymore
The R77 does have quite a but more drag than the AIM-120 irl so it makes sense. But the R77-1 And AIM-120C-5 are in the files, F-16C and SU-27SM can carry those missiles, so maybe one day they will get them? As far I'm aware those missiles and pretty on par with each tracking, tracking, range, and maneuverability, although the R77-1 still has more drag than the AIM-120C-5 but I think they increased the burn time to increase the range.
nope , r77 gets worse the longer it flies , but in like a 15km fight r77 would outperform aim120 , because r77 only gets worse at transonic speeds, so in a 15km fight it probably wont even go lower than mach 2 , but in game r77 is worse than aim120 at all speeds.
@hemendraravi4787 your wrong, I've been watching the R77 in replays, it goes below mach 2 past 12km, I saw this happen at 5000 feet, so the flanker launched at me from 10 miles away, the missile reach mach 4, half way into the missile was already at mach 2, past that it went below mach 2, like it's bad, and so far it's easy to notch, but not as easy as the PL-12, like the PL-12 imo is the worst missile in game agaisnt chaff.
@@WOLFER. thats because it has much more drag in game , did you even read what i said ?
@hemendraravi4787 oh I did, you sound like someone who thinks they know what they are talking about when they don't, also it has more drag because of its back stabiliser design, and kanards, its tracking irl is worse than the AIM-120a/b and look ingame same thing, and also clearly ypu didn't read what I wrote, because I specifically said your wrong and that it does infact lose energy to go under mach 2, so one you just made no sense, two your wasting my time, and three do your research and testing.
As for the AIM-120C-5 and R-77-1 being on par with each other, that's in range and tracking, maneuverability still goes to the R-77-1.
@@WOLFER. dude grind fins have significantly less drag than planar fins , at higher super sonic speeds , thats one of the main reason why they used it, it performs better at higher speeds go and read those research papers , that clearly state grid fins have an advantage at higher speeds. do your research and testing ? wtf are you yapping about ? im talking about real life , in war thunder r77 has the same drag at mach 4 and at mach 1 , in real life at mach 4 r77 would have much much less drag , while at mach 1 they pretty much become an air brake.
I mean even dealing with Semi Actives fired at you at a certain point is near impossible now. Even if you can multipath it, it lands so damn close you get splash damage either way. It's either that or turn to attempt to notch and just give your ass to the enemy where they will stay glued to you for half an hour if an IR missile doesn't kill you. The whole actual BVR thing just simply doesn't work with the current nature of WT in ARB.
After you are done covering the new top tier changes, please revisit the xp-55 I am begging you, brogurt
Stock Grind in another Tornado F.3 is just an insult
great vid once again, hope to see some prop/early jet gameplay soon again :) keep it up
I'll be honest I do actually like the shift in tactics and strategy that the reduced multipathing has created (I thought I would absolutely hate it), but the game mode is in desperate need of change to make the experience actually enjoyable. Grinding the stock mig-29G has been pretty miserable.
15:16 I see you got hit, lucky you, you made it back to the airfield
I really don’t understand how we are going to have to stick grind with no fox 3’s and no multipathing
I think the "new meta" is just a reflection of real life, guys. Lets face it; in modern warfare, USA comes out on top (especially when you take away the buffs/nerfs of Russian and American aircraft).
we not gonna discuss that the Su-27SM is now a better CAS unit than the Su-25SM3?
how ? su25sm3 is still better as it gets thermals + 30km missiles , while su27sm gets a shit camera + no thermals. f16c/su25sm3 are better cas than su27sm. if they added sapsan pod to su27sm then it would be better than sm3.
I think balancing is impossible if you're gonna be accurate about weapons.
Try the buffed Phoenix, if you hold lock they can pull 180
this update would be perfect if 1 the R-77 get it's normal range (there is no one on the internet suggesting that the AIM-120A has more range)
2 the maximal number of players per match are cap to 12
those grid fins are terrible for drag down low, but the R-77 should at least have more range than the 120A/B at higher altitudes (like above 5km?) and i don’t know if it got that either
definitely the maximum player count should decrease, though good old ARB EC would be ideal
@@aether-gaming. grids are terrible when turning at transonic speeds, at supersonic speeds they have some advantages (the people who designed the thing are not stupid, they put them there for a reason). In game the R-77 is simply modelled badly
@@UUUU-dn9wz absolutely, but given how most fights in ARB take place down low anyway (sigh…) that drag will always be a problem
i just don’t know whether they actually modeled the drag dropping off at high altitude / supersonic speeds (probably not)
@@aether-gaming. I don't think so, as even when firing in orbit (over 12000m) aim120s still feel better
@@aether-gaming. I do have the Mig-29SMT with the R-77 and I also have the F-17C with the AIM-120A. I tested both of them in very high altitude ~10km I am confident with the AIM-120 to shot at 40km and with R-77 only to a max of 30km. Currently the amram has a better max range than the R-77 in every situation even when it doesn't have to turn (in head ons)
I’m having a terrible time getting a lock with HMD with even the tiniest poof of chaff. Been using tws on the smallest scan mode.
Can’t wait for the F-4F ICE video. How Gaijin thought that BR was acceptable is ludicrous.
My lobbies I have a completely different experience. I barely see good BVR jousting, people still hugging the ground, and my AMRAAMs still miss an awful lot. People basically dive into the planet whenever they are alerted for a missile.
I personally don’t really mind the r77, though its biggest issue seems to be in the way they programmed its autopilot. It likes to turn way too late and then ends up trying to basically chase the target, together with it wobbling most of the time it’s in flight
if you dont know, the "chicken fence" fins also produce A LOT of drag, which is why the range lacks so much compared to others, sadly it took Vympel (Russian Raytheon in a nutshell) many years to realise the "chicken fence" wasn't worth it and eventually removed them on later variants like the R/K-77M
which those models aren’t produced
It’s a fat missile too. As soon as it goes under Mach one it falls out of the sky like a brick.
@@marinandrei1679 they were produced, but no longer are, just like the aim9l
Lattice fins give it better maneuvrability and lower drag at supersonic speeds, making it harder to dodge at short-medium range. Variants with a longer burn time have been developed to extend the range
It's not like we can trust WT to model them accurately anyway
@@KekusMagnus Thank you, didnt know that
People don't understand the r77 is suppose to be lower range
If you want more range wait for the r77-1
I am simply explaining the limitations 🤷♂️
@@DEFYNoh ik but some people really think the first r77 variant is suppose to be on the aim120 level in range
Just from observation, I think the main problem with the R-77's range has to do with its guidance. It wiggles away all its speed, which is not helped with the higher induced drag from the grid-fins. The missiles range should be more in-line with Aim-120A/B in most cases, but Gaijin hasn't gotten around to fixing this missile yet, as it appears to be the same as on dev server. AAM-4 used to be the single worst radar missile on dev before they fixed it on live server. Now, it's possibly the best ARH missile in the game as of now for high-altitudes. R-Darter/Derby, MICA-EM, PL-12, and R-77 appear to have not yet gotten their fix. Aim-120A/B and AAM-4 feel mostly finished.
they are not able to model variable drag for r77s grid fins.
The R-77 might be somewhat bad, but that thing will chase you for like 45 seconds, I swear it is terrifying just hearing the Warning and praying it won't hit you
Gaijin simply wants revenge against defyn
Missiles flying is like watching flighradar24
On DCS it is the same thing, the r77 loses all its energy very quickly.
but in dcs in a 20km fight r77 will hit faster than aim120 c5 , but in a 40km fight r77 is much slower , in war thunder r77 will be slower at all ranges.
I've been trying out the 27ER in this patch, and i gotta admit, they are still the king of bvr
with all the talk about positioning and cover it just sounds like you're describing ground rb lol
Spain, Pyrenees, and Mysterious Valley are the only playable maps right now on account of actually having terrain cover that you can play around. The fact that maps like Golan Heights, Vietnam, Kamchatka, and City (my previous favourite map ever) are all unplayable boils down to just how little terrain there is to exploit to make games interesting. Matches go one of two ways: you're on a map with terrain and you have fun, or you're on a map with no terrain and it's a coinflip whether you die from a plane that's 25km away. I like BVR, I like simulator stuff, but this is insufferable.
"R-77 worst Fox 3" u may wanna look at R-DARTER/DERBY first
big sad for israel cause IRL the DERBY fucks
yeah you may wanna go do some listening comprehension exercises
the mig-29smt should stay at 12.7 is not competitive in any sense at 13.0
Don’t forget the new f-15c and su-27sm whatever are not the best version of each. There is a f-15c late which just like it’s brother the strike eagle, can carry 10 aim-120s, 6 side winders, and 2 fuel tanks in one load out, and the best su-27 has canards and r-80’s I believe. So there are worse
Only in a game can a fucking f15c with 2 fuel tanks and like half of its missiles outdogfight a su27 or a mig29, im actually sick of this in general, dcs is kinda realistic but even that is meh, i just wish there was a realistic game that was even semi fun, e.g. give the f15c the slightly better radar and missiles, BUT DONT FUCKING TELL ME THAT IT OUTDOGFIGHTS MY MOTHERFUCKING SU27 ON 15MINS OF FUEL
its not like Sukhoi makes supermaneuverable aircrafts or anything right
You don't understand, if they do it, the NATO players will cry hard enough to crack the planet in two
horrible radar? mediocre missiles? half assed version between SM and SM3? Fine. but the FLIGHT MODEL needs a drastic rework
@@shahramtondkarmobarakie1824 The 'basic' Su-27s aren't among them though. A lot of casual people see the entire family as being agile or very maneuverable but the fact is that they really weren't until they got thrust vectoring. Sure, they could be dangerous in a dogfight but they really weren't anything to write home about performance wise in any metric as they weren't better than average in any metric. They needed thrust vectoring to be good at all.
That said they are "underperforming" relatively but the issue is that most things are still pulling more than they should. Case in point Mirages and JAS39s basically had completely fictional FMs. Mirages are a lot better now and the Gripens still need a lot of work. F-15s and F-16s could do with a turn rate nerf too as they are better than their historical best sustained turn rates. In general, based on any credible leaked info, the Su-27s aren't too far off in game though. They are about in the 90 percentile range in terms of flight performance accuracy. People that think that they should be OMG maneuverable jets simply don't have any expectations connected with reality in any way, shape or form. The 'basic" Su-27s really weren't that special.
@rainsilent first off, you have no clue what you're talking about. Su 27 was and is a very formidable dogfighting platform even before thrust vectoring. The Su 27 was designed and built to counter the F 15, and through flight data and manuals, all data points to the Su 27 and F 15 being very close in performance, in both the rate and AOA. As for the in game Su 27, the reason it feels so trash is due to the Oswald efficiency being tanked in the flight model, which results in an insane amount of drag at low speed. A cc reviewed a side by side of a real Su 27 and the in game Su 27 doing a sustained turn, and it revealed that the in game Su 27 bleeds 2x more speed than real life.
There’s a few bug reports open for the Su27SM and J11A regarding radar inaccuracies. It’s been open since the dev server opened. Hopefully gaijin fixes them. Also su27SM FM bug report been open for months still no word from devs.
Its kinda simple to learn basic bvr tactics in pretty much anything, im not very good at dcs but i know how to fight in bvr, if anything the only pain in the ass part is using the radar on more full fidelity aircraft
i mean, this could make it so that planes with shittier fox 3 missiles may have to divert to other tactics, like using terrain until they merge where in a dogfight scenario the russian fighters excell at too. but of course warthunder's enemy highlight system and just the general gameplay fucks that up
Seems like the addition of BVR missiles strongly encourages players to buy upgrades with GE instead of stock grinding. Too lucrative for Gaijin to resist.
I low key feel like I should bind my Turnigy controller to the game and use it to dominate sim battles, so I can finish grinding my J-11
Such a beautiful aircraft.
fox 3 planes should NEVER see another plane without fox 3's
Since the update, countermeasure count is fucked, and so is the f14 tws
the city map actually became one of the best maps on this update IMO, IR missile carriers even have a fighting chance in there against the wall of F16C's,also the fact that US planes have 4-8 missile datalink channels while other planes have 1-2 is insane
7:20 cunttrails
The nation with superior radar tech has superior radars in game? Wow!
2:30 no radar likes to pick targets very quickly in game…
Su27 is like a freight train holy
Fully agree that top BR are all about positioning with requires less skill than energy fighting in props. .... simple .... dont play those BRs like I dont. I would enjoy if gaijin added WW1 stuff as new reserve though, would be neat.
It really feels like chaff isn't working
It does
2:35 damn
I hope they add the R-27EA to get more competetive
@DEFYN can you make a video about the stock grind of the Tornado F3 Late, F4F ICE and nee Sea Harrier. I think the state of those aircraft deserves talking about.
Play J-8F pls, gets 2xPL-12s and finally has drop pods now. Its kinda funny to fly especially in downtiers, and is pretty unique with its HMD, great RWR and fantastic Fox-3s at 12.3
Wow looks fun, I think I’ll stick with props and gun jets though
the game was never balanced in the first place. people are essentially mad that the flanker has to actually do flanker things and know u have to worry about a certain set of jets instead of just being the best in its tiers like it honestly always been for russia
Always been? F-14 vs MiG-23? Aim-9L vs R-60M? Meta shifts all the time man, its not like USSR always good or US always good
Biggest issue i had, and that me and my friends atleast agreed on is before when the ER was OP asf, it always felt that atleast if you were in a NATO jet you could beat the russian in a dogfight, and it kinda was a balance of better missiles vs better prefomance (im not a NATO jet player but i asked soem friends and they agreed on this so dont hate me im coping), but now you just kinda die with shit missiles shit radar and shit flight preformance, i just cant reccomend anyone to grind out the Su-27 cuz it literally does nothing better then the F-15 unless you love the plane like me
You can always go and play AB. At this tier those games are basically AB :D
No.
One of the most annoying parts of top tier (for me) is very clearly displayed here: doing everything correctly and still not getting kills because other people's missile hits the enemy just one second before yours
Scrongled Milk keeps me going
If the 77 has trouble keeping up, no wonder I've been struggling to get any ranged shots with the mica. The 120 does seem like the best all around F3. It's also on the best chassis.
4:50 what a dodge